Joseph F. Smith Turned Against Adam-God
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- This presentation explores the history of Joseph F. Smith turning against the Adam-God Doctrine, his initial belief in Adam-God, and his denials of Adam-God starting first with a private denial in 1897. Evidence exists suggesting that the Adam-God sermon known as the "lecture at the veil" was removed from the LDS Endowment ceremony shortly after Joseph F. Smith became President of the Church. Strong public denials disavowing the Adam-God Doctrine started in 1902 after Joseph F. Smith became President of the Church, reaching their peak with two First Presidency letters against the Adam-God Doctrine in 1912 and at the April 1912 Priesthood Conference Charles W. Penrose and Joseph F. Smith spoke against it, with Joseph F. Smith going as far as to say that old patriarchs who continued to teach it and refused to stop should be cut off from the Church.
To learn more:
/ workofthefather
For a pamphlet giving a summary of the history of the Adam-God Doctrine, from Joseph Smith's teachings about Adam to the early Utah period to Joseph F. Smith disavowing it, see One Eternal Round #22 "A History of the Adam-God Doctrine": oneeternalround...
I've really enjoyed your series on this topic. I've been a believer on this subject for nearly 50 years, which I first encountered while on a mission during the McConkie rants. You have done as thorough a job and as a thoughtful presentation on this topic as I have ever been presented. Thank you again.
I have always wondered if outside influences by bankers and merchants were to blame for its complete removal from our minds. The doctrine just makes sense. When I first learned about it, the New Testament was my go to source.
Thank you again for your efforts.
Top 10 betrayals in anime history
Why didn't Joseph F. Smith, who held the keys of the Priesthood, who knew the true order of prayer and how to receive revelation enquire of the Lord a revelation concerning this doctrine to submit as a revelation to the church like his section 138 revelation. He should've told the church that he enquired of the Lord and this is the revelation on the God head. He didn't do that though. He just provided a non-revelatory statement denouncing it. What he should've did is received the revelatory doctrine on Michael being a God and submit that to the church to be canonized. It looks like he cared more about how non-believers view us than the truth. But then again, we have in the scriptures Michael being called a God in the book of Abraham. Leaders of the church should stop fighting against the Restoration and what God has restored.
Where in the Book of Abraham does it say that exactly? I’m just wondering.
@@user-yj5xc6xq6j Abraham chapter 4
Abraham ch.4
The endowment informs us who was involved in the creation. The book of Abraham states that they are Gods.
@@zon3665 I’m aware that it says the Gods, I think it’s a reference to the Elohim. Adam would be an Elohim. That they organized the Earth. (Trying to paraphrase) It also mentions Jehovah, and I think it mentions that a savior will be chosen, and that’s kinda interesting because we teach in the church that Jesus is the only Jehovah. Let me know if I am misremembering something.
@@user-yj5xc6xq6jThe TWO Powers in Heaven israelite theology from where Historical Christianity comes from teaches there is the Invisible YHWH (the Father) and the Visible YHWH ( Pre-incarnate Jesus ) both persons called YHWH R in Genesis 19:24.
All Mormon sects R counterfeits if they accept the Adam- God doctrine or NOT !!!
Regarding the revelation upon revelation during a prayer circle in the temple, Brigham Young said late in life that he never claimed to have had revelation-that was for Joseph. It’s in JoD, but you’ll have to look it up for the exact wording. I think the leaders do their best, but still fall short because they’re human. I’m content to consider their teachings, but focus on the Savior as taught in scripture, and look forward to learning (or remembering) a whole lot more after this life. Truly, it doesn’t matter one whit about this subject regarding our lives here and now, nor does it matter whatsoever regarding working out our own salvation. We can’t even figure out how to love one another which is infinitely more important to understand and live. Still, this is interesting material.
I've seen numerous statements throughout Brigham Young's life where said that he had received many revelations. Here is one example:
“President [Brigham] Young queried whether the brethren thought he was too liberal in launching out on this doctrine [Adam-God] before the Gentiles. He was positive on the truth of the doctrine, but thought we should be cautious about preaching on doctrines unless we fully understand them by the power of the Spirit, then they commend themselves to the hearts of our hearers. …Said there were many revelations given to him [Brigham Young] that he did not receive from the Prophet Joseph. He did not receive them through the Urim and Thummim as Joseph did but when he did receive them he knew of their truth as much as it was possible for him to of any truth.” (Salt Lake School of the Prophets page 378)
@@WorkoftheFather like I said, you can easily find his direct statement near the end of his life when he said he never claimed to have received revelation-that was Joseph’s doing. Brother Brigham may have felt inspired many times, as we all do only to later learn we were mistaken partially or even fully. The priesthood ban is clearly a 130+-year long mistaken revealed doctrine taught as revelation from God that is now taught as a policy based on their beliefs of their day. Brigham Young and others taught terrible things about women…things that were completely without love, compassion, understanding, or respect. They sometimes did things that were abominable by today’s more loving and respectful standards our leaders teach. But I’m totally fine with the Brethren being mistaken, insofar as later leaders were willing to learn to say and do better, and thus teach us to be better. They are mere men trying to do their best with their filters, biases, prejudices, paradigms, and flaws. Only Jesus is perfect, and apparently, with an on-going restoration, we get many things not quite right, if not 100% wrong. Line upon line….. Here a little, there a little….. The Lord is infinitely patient as we learn and progress, struggling to let go of the false traditions and teachings of the imbedded past which we are all prey to. This life is a classroom, not a courtroom. Some learn more slowly, and that’s just fine. I truly believe we will all be surprised, and perhaps even shocked and horrified at some of the things we’ve messed up on that the Savior will correct. He’s so merciful toward us if we’re truly trying to “Hear Him.” It takes multiple generations to get all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators to be unanimous in “Hearing Him.” Today, they are hastening this process, which causes many to fall away because they think the Brethren are falling prey to the ways of the world. Others fall away because change doesn’t happen fast enough. Please, dear Lord, just let me be humble enough to let go of the false doctrines and policies of the past, those today, and to accept any new inspired policies and teachings with mercy, grace, and trust.
I’m so grateful for all our leaders, past and present, who have done their best with what they knew. They’ve helped us grow as individuals, and as a church. But I am especially grateful to the prophet Joseph who did the most of any prophet of any dispensation, save Enoch. I believe Joseph will return soon to continue his divine calling because we are more prepared (I hope!) to accept what he brings. He tried to warn us that what the Lord had taught and revealed to him could not be shared with us or they-his own fellow saints-would literally kill him. I believe we still have a long way to go to even begin to comprehend the ways of God. Most of the time, most of us can’t even figure out how to love one another enough to have two truly happy spouses with celestial marriages and homes, let alone how to come close to becoming a Zion people. We remain very poor at divine cohesion and divine Love. But let us keep learning, striving, and progressing!
Sorry for my long response. I didn’t want to come off as trite, or condemning any past leader. I’m a total lifelong nerd who studies everything and try to be open to all opinions and comments, even as I explain where I’m coming from, with the hope others will be willing to be open to mine. That way we all can learn and grow if we’re ready. If not, that’s okay. The Lord meets us right where each of us are. May we learn to be so kind and loving like Him.
If they were to go to their own earth as Adam and Eve. What happens to all the other wives?
132 was also not voted upon by the Church to be scripture
Please, stop saying "Adam-God doctrine". It was never a doctrine. It was only a teaching. A doctrine is when the entire Church agrees with a teaching, and this teaching is thus canonized. The Adam-God teaching was never canonized because it was never in agreement.
“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true.” - Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses vol. 8 page 260)
@@WorkoftheFather”We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine.” -President Spencer W. Kimball, 1976 October General Conference
@@chrishumphries7489 "One of the grand fundamental principles of 'Mormonism' is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may." - The Prophet Joseph Smith, July 9, 1843 (TPJS 313)
@@terminuselectron6900 Completely agree with that. Thank you Spencer W. Kimball for setting the record straight. Truth can indeed come from many sources. For example, Buddhist and Taoists have beautiful teachings and truths, some I would argue are not even fully appreciated in the restored church. That doesn’t mean, however, that reincarnation is true.
@@chrishumphries7489Whether you consider it to be a doctrine presently doesn’t change the historical fact that it was a doctrine of the Church in the past. It was not some idle theory that Brigham Young presented haphazardly on occasion. It was systemized idea that was taught to the Saints at large in both the temple and at Church.
As an example, many hymns were written on the subject, one of which, although altered, remains in your hymn book today. Open to hymn no. 51! The words “ancient father” were originally “eternal father,” “endless with thy seed abide” was originally “forever o’er thy seed preside.” This hymn was a hymn to Adam, who was, not only by Brigham Young, but also by the author, identified as God the Father.
It wasn’t just Brigham Young who affirmed the doctrine, it was also the whole Q12 with the exception of Orson Pratt. He faced the possibility of ecclesiastical punishment, in part, as a result of that very objection. As the video briefly mentions, members who fought against the Adam God doctrine could also be subject to disciplinary trials. This is simply historical fact, whether you believe in the idea or not. You cannot reject the history and maintain intellectual honesty.
It was a doctrine of the Church. Which prompts the question: who is truly in apostasy? Is it the people who believe in the teachings of the prophets, or is it those who would follow the whims of men wherever they may lead? I leave that with you.
The crucifixion story is imagery and prophecy for two appearances, the sacrifice and the resurrection. They take place within the same generation, at the end of the ages, the time of the harvest.
Warning of the impending Day of the Lord, he was swallowed by the Beast out of the Sea and spewed out upon the shore as the Beast out of the Earth, as the sun beat down upon his head and a burning east wind began the Way of the Lord in the Desert.
Adam is the Root and Offspring of Yahweh.
Ezekiel 28 speaks of Adam, the Christ, when he wields the fiery sword, judges the world, and becomes the Lawless One. The Father is greater than I. Yahweh judged the heavens themselves and became the snake, the Ancient Serpent of Old. Are they unjust to inflict wrath? Of course not. How else could they judge.
Adam is a third-party to this world and these heavens. His kingdom is forever peaceful. Adam had a university of trees to learn from. Further, Adam was not deceived. Yahweh goes about in a tent of cloth. Adam was clothed from the nakedness of the day of judgment. They are with you always, until the end of the ages.
Adam is Transfigured and revealed to be the Christ. The Ancient Serpent of Old is Transfigured and revealed to be the Ancient One of Days having his feet washed by Adam. You have to put a story behind the Transfiguration.
A kingdom was prepared for Yahweh at the foundation of the world. No one comes to it except through Adam. Adam ascends beyond the heavens and it looks like he is taking Yahweh with him.
In the beginning, the world was a wasteland and darkness covered the Abyss, Yahweh's kingdom. His people were empty, and void of understanding, having become corrupted. Adam found them in that wasteland and shielded them as the apple of his eye.
Earth is Yahweh’s Everlasting Lake of Fire, his furnace of roaring flames where, in his furious wrath, he will gather you up, put you in, and smelt you. If your name is not in the book of life, he will refine you, remove your dross, and purify you until the Devil, the False Prophet, and the Beast are cleansed from you.
let this cup pass from me Matthew 26:39 shall not I drink it? John 18:11
🤔
there are several versions of the Adam God theory. without a foundation in what Brigham was saying none of the theories make sense.
Jesus knew no sin so he couldn't be the first Adam
@@Scott48-m7e the New Testament says he was.
@@michaelparks5669 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV who knew no sin
@@Scott48-m7e if you are trying to make a point you have lost me.
The part about Heavenly Father coming doing and conceiving Adam makes sense but the whole Adam God theory confuses the crap out of me
@mikewoodingsThis sure would make the temple endowment exceedingly confusing.
Further, how do you reconcile what you taught above with Alma 11:45?
@mikewoodings That makes more sense thanks
@mikewoodings “Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; THEIR SPIRITS UNITING WITH THEIR BODIES, NEVER TO BE DIVIDED; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that THEY CAN NO MORE SEE CORRUPTION.”
@mikewoodings He was told he would die. Even if he somehow didn’t, his body saw corruption. Blood coursed through his veins- which Joseph said is corruption. Adam was also later “bowed down with age” which would indicate bodily corruption. This still goes against Alma 11:45.
But if you have any quotes on the matter, I still would appreciate to see it.
I don’t think Brigham understood what he was teaching. I think Joseph F Smith was right. In addition the Adam god theory is best described in the ancient text (the discourse on Abbaton by Timothy Archbishop of Alexandria). Its Coptic but I think it’s inspired
I was literally going to mention the discourse on Abbaton in regards to this theory! Parts of this text have actually been quoted by President Nelson.
@@chrishumphries7489 really? Had no idea. This text is a gem. Every member should read this. Another amazing fact about this text. The earth speaks. This does not happen in the Bible anywhere but it does in the pearl of great price
@@thewildroots4491 So amazing! Very few people seem to know about this Coptic text that I don’t think is perfect or necessarily pure scripture, but definitely inspired.
Here is President Nelson’s quote:
“I would like to share a remarkable quotation that I found in a rare book in London one day while searching through the library of the British Museum. It was published as a 20th-century English translation of an ancient Coptic text.
It was written by Timothy, Patriarch of Alexandria, who died in A.D. 385. This record refers to the creation of Adam. Premortal Jesus is speaking of His Father: “He . . . made Adam according to Our image and likeness, and He left him lying for 40 days and 40 nights without putting breath into him. And He heaved sighs over him daily, saying, ‘If I put breath into this [man], he must suffer many pains.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be an advocate for him.’ And My Father said unto Me, ‘If I put breath into him, My beloved Son, Thou wilt be obliged to go down into the world, and to suffer many pains for him before Thou shalt have redeemed him, and made him to come back to his primal state.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be his advocate, and I will go down into the world, and will fulfil Thy command.’”
-President Nelson, message to the young adults 2016
He also shared this same quote originally in April General Conference 2000.
@@thewildroots4491 I haven’t met many people that even know about this text. I don’t think it is pure scripture, but definitely inspired.
Here is President Nelson’s quote:
“I would like to share a remarkable quotation that I found in a rare book in London one day while searching through the library of the British Museum. It was published as a 20th-century English translation of an ancient Coptic text.
It was written by Timothy, Patriarch of Alexandria, who died in A.D. 385. This record refers to the creation of Adam. Premortal Jesus is speaking of His Father: “He . . . made Adam according to Our image and likeness, and He left him lying for 40 days and 40 nights without putting breath into him. And He heaved sighs over him daily, saying, ‘If I put breath into this [man], he must suffer many pains.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be an advocate for him.’ And My Father said unto Me, ‘If I put breath into him, My beloved Son, Thou wilt be obliged to go down into the world, and to suffer many pains for him before Thou shalt have redeemed him, and made him to come back to his primal state.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be his advocate, and I will go down into the world, and will fulfil Thy command.’”
-President Nelson, 2016 message to young adults.
He also quoted this in his April 2000 General Conference talk, “The Creation.”
@@thewildroots4491 I haven’t met many people that even know about this text. I don’t think it is pure scripture, but definitely inspired.
Here is President Nelson’s quote:
“I would like to share a remarkable quotation that I found in a rare book in London one day while searching through the library of the British Museum. It was published as a 20th-century English translation of an ancient Coptic text.
It was written by Timothy, Patriarch of Alexandria, who died in A.D. 385. This record refers to the creation of Adam. Premortal Jesus is speaking of His Father: “He . . . made Adam according to Our image and likeness, and He left him lying for 40 days and 40 nights without putting breath into him. And He heaved sighs over him daily, saying, ‘If I put breath into this [man], he must suffer many pains.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be an advocate for him.’ And My Father said unto Me, ‘If I put breath into him, My beloved Son, Thou wilt be obliged to go down into the world, and to suffer many pains for him before Thou shalt have redeemed him, and made him to come back to his primal state.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be his advocate, and I will go down into the world, and will fulfil Thy command.’”
-President Nelson, 2016 message to young adults.
He also quoted this in his April 2000 General Conference talk, “The Creation.”
I’m all about keeping an open mind but wouldn’t that make God a liar since it was written man was created by clay?
“The first people of the earth were no more made of the dust than we are. I would not make out that Moses lied, by no means, but we are made of dust as much as Adam was; so are our cattle. They are formed or created from the elements, all of which are necessary to produce animal or vegetable life; as the dust of the earth will produce grass, and cattle will eat grass and increase. Every person must have a father and a mother or they could not be.” (Complete Discourses of Brigham Young page 855)
“‘But, Brother Brigham, would you make it appear that Moses did not tell the truth?’ No, not a particle more than I would that your mother did not tell the truth, when she told you that little Billy came from a hollow toad stool. I would not accuse your mother of lying, any more than I would Moses; the people in the days of Moses wanted to know things that was not for them, the same as your children do, when they want to know where their little brother came from, and he answered them according to their folly, the same as you did your children.” (Complete Discourses of Brigham Young page 850)
@@WorkoftheFather so who is the Holy Ghost in all this?
False doctrine. Anything that contradicts the bible can not be from God. This church is teaching a false Christ. There is nothing you can do to earn grace or salvation. Only faith in the true Jesus Christ and the sacrifice he made can reconcile us to God.
The Church teaches that anyone who believes in Jesus Christ can be saved by grace. Grace is a free gift that God gives to the believers. We cannot earn it. In order to get saved by grace, you need faith. Faith is a belief you have, that leads to action. In James Chapter it says 2 verse 17 states, faith without works is dead. 17 "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." If you are not taking action, then you don't really have faith. Ephesian 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
So, we follow Jesus Christ by doing good works. Changing our bad works into good works, which is repentance. That way we are on the right path. In the Book of Mormon talks about repentance.
Mosiah Chapter 2 36-39
36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved-
37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open arebellion against God; therefore, he blisteth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in cunholy temples.
38 Therefore if that man arepenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine bjustice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own cguilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the dpresence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and epain, and fanguish, which is like an unquenchable gfire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.
39 And now I say unto you, that amercy hath no claim on that man; therefore, his final doom is to endure a never-ending btorment.
Not correct. Joel Chapter 3:14-19 Joel tells you that the Lord will be active in the last days speaking his words from out of Zion not in just Jesus's own day of just his apostles that he will be speaking his word as you claim but he will be speaking more of his word from out of Zion in the last days.... Not speaking from just out of your Bibles from dead prophets but he will speak instead from living prophets from out of Zion to all the world why from out of Zion? Because the gospel has been restored back again on the earth. And this is the real Jesus, the same Jesus that rose up from the dead in the flesh will be taught in Zion for doctrine just as 1 John teaches of true followers of Christ will teach that for doctrine that he is risen up in the flesh.
@@germanslice Mattthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
" Anything that contradicts Gods word is false. We know for a fact the gospels we have today were well preserved. That was proven with the discovery of the dead sea scrolls. Joseph Smith never finished the supposed "restored gospels".
@@elkhuntr2816 Your interpretation of that scripture is wrong. No the Restoration of the gospel is still ongoing because the church is run by constant revelation from God because God's words cannot cease so revelations keep on flowing... Jesus didn't say there would be no more prophets to speak for the Lord in the last days, you had interpreted that incorrectly. For he did not come to destroy the law or the prophets. He was only speaking of the present tense that no man on earth at that time would know the hour of his coming in the last days. But in the last days the prophets of God would instruct the saints to prepare for his coming.. Otherwise if there is no instruction for the saints to prepare for the Lord's return then they would not be ready when he returns
The prophecy of Joel is all about what the Lord God will do in the last days with Zion. He will speak from out of Zion in the last days through his living prophets here on earth. The prophecy of Joel contradicts your claims of there being no restoration and no more prophets to speak
for the Lord from out of Zion in the last days. That comes from misinterpreating what Paul said to the Galatian Saints about another gospel. Because if The everlasting gospel is another gospel as you try to claim it to be then that blatantly contradicts John's vision he saw of the everlasting
gospel being preached out to all the earth in the last days among all kindreds, nations and tongues and people Rev 14:7. He said it was the everlasting gospel, not another gospel. Paul was not talking about the same everlasting gospel or that would contradict John and Daniel's visions. and if you go with paul then you also contradict not only Daniel and john's prophecies but also contradict Isaiah's prophecy that the Law of God shall come from out of Zion and from Jersalem in the last days. Isaiah 2:2-3. You can't condemn zion as being a false gospel without running into major big problems with contradicting bible prophecies all about Zion being established by the Lord on the earth in the last days ..The Law is not going to come from millions of Bible thumpers from all nations preaching the word of God out from a book of just only past dead prophets, instead his law and his word in the last days is going to come from out of Zion and from Jersualem from living prophets who will speak the mind and will of the Lord.
You contradict your own bible prophecies when you insist to me that the Lord won't do anything in the last days before the time of his Second Coming Main Event, The Lord will, he will reveal his secret to his servants the prophets Amos 3:7 and they will tell the saints in Zion to prepare for his return. The Lord will tell them to watch and wait and be ready when he comes, for he will prepare his saints. The Lord will speak from out of Zion and command his saints to walk the highway to holiness which he has established in Zion, for the Lord had set up Zion to be a standard for all the nations. (isaiah) the Lord has got his Own Standard... The Lord's Sanctuary shall also be placed in Zion and it shall be in Zion forever (the temple.). (Ezekiel 37:26-28) So the temples are all back the prophets are all back, the priesthood is all back just like in days of old just as Paul said it would happen in Acts Chapter 3 during the apostasy of the New Testament Church about a coming day of Restitution of ALL THINGS to happen in the last days, not just some things coming back but all things are coming back and that's why temple worship is all back, the living prophets are all back, the priesthood is all back, and the authority of God is all back again on the earth..
Its Just like the Elderly couple in Star Trek, you keep on destroying their house and a while later back it reppears back again just as good as new
without a single scratch. So If its the work of men as you claim it is then it will eventually cease, but if it be the work of God then you
cannot stop it. And Zion has been on the earth now for the last 200 years since the restoration took place.
The fact is you have no Apostolic Council of Authority to run God's kingdom here on the earth. So you have got no business judging the saints
who do have that Apostolic Council of Authority in Zion given to them by the Lord who had established that council to Run Zion with.. All you have is just the cornerstone, but you are not built upon the foundation of the prophets and the apostles if you reject Zion then you reject the foundation then you can't build the house of God without having the cornerstone and also the foundation for without that living apostolic council of authority. the saints cannot be made perfect. So you cannot be perfected or build the house of God if you reject the foundation.
if God had prophets to speak for him in the past and whatsoever God doeth it is forever Eccl 3:6 and since God knows all truth he cannot add more to what he already knows so God continues as our articles of Faith 9 states to reveal more truth to us line by line that God has revealed (past), does now reveal (present), and will yet reveal many things pertaining to the kingdom of God (Future) precept by precept line by line through his servants the prophets so revelation from God will not cease as you claim and will continue from Zion on in the last days until it becomes a flood to fill all the earth to fulfill Daniel's Vision of the Stone Kingdom that he saw of the everlasting kingdom of God because the Lords words shall never cease.
But You're saying to me through incorrect mainstream teaching that the Lord's words have all ceased with Jesus and the Apostles and the prophecies of the Bible say that his words haven't ceased but will be roaring instead from out of Zion in the last days. The Lord won't be
quiet as a mouse in the last days.
The Lord will have living prophets again on the earth in the last days speaking on his behalf his words will be roaring from out of Zion and later on in the future from out of Jerusalem once the Jews accept him as the Messiah to fulfill Zechariah's Chapter 12 Prophecy of the risen Lord having a personal face to face visit with the Jews in the flesh with his own resurrected body and he will then show them the wounds in his hands and feet and they will know that their Fathers had crucified him and then they will no longer reject him as Messiah and that's not a prophecy to be fulfilled in 44 AD but it still a prophecy to be fulfilled in the future once the Jews build their temple....So its a future last days prophecy.
Then after he appears to the Jews and they accept him, he will later on appear to all the world but this time he will appear in Red Robes in great power and glory with all of his angles in the cloud to judge all the world and this will be the main event.
So the Lord will make several visits before the main event takes place, that's why the Lord appeared to Joseph to establish his Zion to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy about bringing back again Zion as part of the prophecy Paul said in Acts 3 of a Restitution of all things (Ephesians) in Christ
in the latter-days.
So we know the Lord will in the last days restore back the everlasting gospel
@@germanslice Actually, he very explicitly said God no longer speaks through prophets. Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. Hebrews 1:1-4 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
Jesus himself doesn't know when he is coming back according to the bible. There are also several warnings about false Christs that will arise. The Christ of Mormanism is a good example. Even if prophets were for today, there is a straight forward test for prophets given to us in the bible. Joseph Smith certainly failed that test. You have to seek what is actually true. Scriptures can't contradict. Just look at what the bible says about the character of God and compare that with mormanism.
I agree with jfm. Even I , I against Adam god doctrine.
To me, this is exactly why Joseph F. Smith is a great man and prophet of God. Doctrine and new revelation that comes from the prophet is presented to the apostles for sustaining vote and consent. The apostles must be in unanimous agreement.
This wasn’t necessarily the case in the days of Brigham Young. While a great man and prophet himself, he put forth what he thought was doctrine (likely something that Joseph had said or taught, that was unintentionally confused by Brigham).
Brigham never had the full support of the apostles on this. Brigham though is so certain that he goes to make it part of the temple endowment and….. he dies.
Every prophet from Joseph F. Smith onward rejects the “Adam God doctrine.” Most famously Spencer W. Kimball with full support of all the apostles rejects it and announces that rejection to the church.
What this story tells me is that God is setting up His restored church line upon line in an ongoing restoration. It is important that all who are called and ordained as “apostles, prophets, seers, and revelators” are in complete unanimous agreement when new doctrine is presented. This protects the church and the doctrine from well- meaning, but unintentional mistakes of men who are called to lead the church.
With inspiration, Joseph F. Smith declares this new idea of apostolic agreement necessary to forward new doctrine/revelation to the church. This has been practiced ever since and is practiced today.
George Q. Cannon stated in the 1890 Bunkerville trial that Brigham Young's Lecture at the Veil (which taught the Adam-God doctrine, and used to be delivered in the St. George Temple), was "closely scrutinized" and approved by the Twelve Apostles, and thus that "no man has any right to say anything against it." Moreover, a majority of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles supported President Young's rebuke of Orson Pratt in the 1860 meeting wherein he was reprimanded for teaching against the doctrine despite not having the consent of his brethren. Heber C. Kimball, Brigham Young's First Counselor, wrote in 1862 that "The Lord told me that Adam was my Father and that he was the God and Father of all of the inhabitants of this Earth." There are statements from members of all quorums of General Authorities during President Young's lifetime (and even afterwards) expressing support for the Adam-God doctrine. To say that it did not have sustaining vote and consent is not true.
@@terminuselectron6900Orson Pratt was never in true agreement. Obviously Joseph F. Smith was in disagreement.
The so-called Adam God theory is incongruent with scripture. It makes no sense. How does a perfected God with a resurrected body become mortal again- when the scriptures teach that body forever moves into an incorruptible and glorified state? Is Adam answering Abel and Seth’s prayers? So many questions with no good answer whatsoever.
Regardless, either Brigham is right or Joseph F. Smith, Spencer W. Kimball, Gordon B, Hinckley, etc. are all right. Either way a prophet of God is wrong on this matter.
@@chrishumphries7489 "How does a perfected God with a resurrected body become mortal again"-good question. How did Jesus go and obtain His exaltation on a previous world and then get born again as a mortal human to die for us here? This is the essence of what Joseph Smith taught in the King Follett Discourse, and it is also taught in D&C 132:37.
Furthermore, Wilford Woodruff recorded on January 30, 1842: "Joseph the Seer taught the following principles[:] that the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ was once the same as the Son or Holy Ghost[,] bot[h] having redeemed a world[, and thus] became the eternal God of that world[.] he had a son Jesus Christ who redeemed this earth the same as his father had[,] a world which made them equal & the Holy Ghost would do the same in his turn *& so would all the Saints."*
The Temple Endowment teaches that Lucifer had encountered Adam "on another world," which signifies that Adam had another existence on another planet whereby he was known to Lucifer already. Eve affirms this is true by later recognizing Lucifer after recovering Her memory.
As to who answers Abel and Seth's prayers, this usually depends on the context of a given scripture, but the early Mormon understanding was that there is a hierarchy of Gods, and often Yahweh in early Genesis is actually Heavenly Grandfather. The concept of Divine Investiture was taught by George Q. Cannon and greatly reduces the confusion of this problem.
You are correct in your last statement. However, it is probably better for the Restoration as a whole that a few modern prophets were wrong rather than the first 5 founding prophets, who explicitly claimed to have revelations from God, and know who He is.
I dont agree with your reasoning, and But I will say as you review the statements of Joseph F and Joseph field and some of the other leaders of the late 1800 hundreds and early 1900 hundreds there is a lot of waffling in their statements and they change their positions. I strongly believe that Joseph Smith taught the adam god doctrine and that is where Brigham got it from. But I also strongly believe that there is a reason why Joseph F and others have tried to distance us from it. It is not really necessary to for us to know all at this time. I believe that if any member wants to know its very simple. Do your due diligence, study and take it to the Lord. He will let you know.
@@terminuselectron6900 Jesus had no physical body before mortality here. He was perfect and God as a Spirit.
Joseph Smith taught in two different places that, “the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation, which if he should perform in righteousness, he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has."
This is one the most intriguing ideas I’ve found about the nature of the Godhead from Joseph Smith. I also agree that in the King Follett discourse Joseph appears to very directly allude to the fact that the Father went through the same exact course as the Son, and was the Savior of His world. So the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost seem to have a special direct relationship and pattern.
Further, we also have this from Joseph Smith: “What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before.”
-So Jesus takes the Father’s place and exalts Him higher.
Is it possible the Holy Ghost will become the Savior of the next world(s)? Who knows, this is pure speculation, but it could be a possibility.
So where is Adam is all this? Doesn’t seem to fit anywhere. Let me share these quotes from Joseph Smith:
Prophet Joseph Smith taught that Noah is Gabriel and stands next in authority to Adam in the priesthood: “The Priesthood was first given to Adam; he obtained the First Presidency, and held the keys of it from generation to generation. He obtained it in the Creation, before the world was formed, as in Genesis 1:26, 27, 28. He had dominion given him over every living creature. He is Michael the Archangel, spoken of in the Scriptures. Then to Noah, who is Gabriel; he stands next in authority to Adam in the Priesthood; he was called of God to this office and was the father of all living in his day, and to him was given the dominion. These men held keys first on earth, and then in heaven.”
So, Noah stands next in Authority to Adam in Priesthood. If Adam is Heavenly Father, where does that put Christ?!
Here is the answer from Joseph: It was also revealed to Joseph Smith that Adam holds the keys of all dispensations and even the "keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One." (D&C 78:16; TPJS, p. 167.) That Holy One is the Savior, i.e., "Christ is the Great High Priest; Adam next." (TPJS, p. 158.)
It is clear that Adam is UNDER Christ in authority, not the other way around.