I think one of the big issues is that DE's idea of increasing difficulty is just making more of your options unusable, but for a game that prides itself on the diversity of ways it allows players to deal with challenges that's really stupid
@@doctorhealsgood5456 Oh, ohohohoo. You do not remind a vazarin main about the existence of that ''thing''. We do it enough ourselves! - DE: It has come to our attention that vazarin heals this very fragile (limited-time event) defence objective (which won't appear ever again). We do not like this, so we will ""''buff''"" other sources of healing and slightly nerf (butcher) vazarin. - The humble few Vazarin mains: Wh-what? But it doesn't heal the thingy, we would know, we tried it. The hek did we do to be getting nerfed all of a sudden? - DE: *Hotfixes while not wearing their hearing aid, as they do.* - The humble few Vazain mains: You removed the invurnability frames!? This is outrageous!! We can't heal a thingy under fire without invurnability frames; and thingy is always under fire!!! - DE: *Continues not to wear their hearing aid, which they really need.* - Vazarin mains now even closer to extinction: We will remember this...
@@user-vm4sz5ms7e So many people talk about Unairu that it actually became popular. Now tell me how often you hear about Vazarin. Now tell me how often you hear about Vazarin, from people outside of the Vazarin species.
The only time I remember that line was true was when DE finally sat down and ran an interception mission without using their dev accounts. After being badgered by the community to fix interception for so long, they had two of the main people they have up for their talks actually do it and got the pants beat off them so bad. Afterwards, they moved interception to the outside “optional” points on the map until they fixed interception-gate. That was many moons ago, mind you.
@@The_cat_father just use void strike form madurai and new arcane form Zariman which gives crit chance on operator energy depleted - bam, your propa with certus brace has ensured crits breaking hidrolist shield with maximum 2 shots without volt shield.
It's amazing how they added an augment for Frost that actually made him able to do damage in higher end activities and in the SAME UPDATE, AN ENEMY CLASS THAT IGNORES IT.
You know what's funny? Eximus not only hit limbo through whatever plane they are with their abilities, but they can enter the rift without being affected by stasis. Now what does that mean? Well they will shoot normally since they are not frozen, but their projectiles will freeze. Do you remember how in the past limbo had a cap on projectiles he can freeze? Yea thats still a thing. Do you remember how there was a visual indication when stasis was nearing the collapse point from projectiles? Yea thats no longer a thing. Overall 10/10 very balanced completely kills of the entire kit of a mediocre frame thats not even that popular
@@pathfindersavant3988 Then why did they create it? It's just so idiotic. DE: *creates something that's not hot garbage* also DE but later: oh no, I've made a mistake! Scott! Find the nerfhammer, quick!
I was doing a no defense objective damage riven with Limbo vs the infested and cried on wave 4 when an exploder eximus effortlessly slipped by when I wasn't looking.
AOE weapons and abilities was always the most effective way to play the game. Sonicor spam, Mirage+Simulor, Derelict defence with ogris/penta, boring survival in orokin tube with torid+Vauban and other relics of old meta. I get it, running around, killing everything in sight is bad, but it's infinitely more fun than what was before.
this doesn’t even mention the fact that new players get absolutely steamrolled by these guys without mods or meta options of dealing with overguard. whats a brand new player who had the misfortune of choosing mag gonna do against an eximus unit with their unmodded mk1 braton? they literally had to nerf the level and length of the grendel missions because overguarded eximus made them literally impossible how did they think this was fine
Something I’ve learned from games developers that don’t listen, you literally have to leave the game and bring active player numbers dangerously low in order for them to actually listen. DE isn’t the only game who acts like this. So if you want change take an extended break after Tennocon 2022
I didn't think that crowd control was that bad, even with the changes they've done. But then I went to the Zariman to do the Mobile Defence mission on The Steel Path, and omg I wanted to cook my brain with the Nukor with how ball bustingly difficult it was. Not only is Steel Path Zariman completely dead in terms of player count, but try and keep a fucking console alive when you have high level Eximus AND Thrax units railing you faster than the femboy in your dreams. I have now come to the conclusion that crowd control is still viable BUT it's dying quickly.
@@gavinlaster5909 Same, was playing Wisp and got knockbacked by two eximus that does that wall of fire thing I recovered kill those then I failed, in the span of like 3 seconds because a Thrax during that mayhem spawned and took out the objective.
That's the main problem really, or one of them at least. The community at large understands and knows that this game is a horde shooter, but DE still refuses to acknowledge that that is what the game has become, and thus refuse to treat and balance it like so.
Payday is probably one of the best examples of horde shooters with minimal CC. There's some newer mechanics that added it, but for the longest time it was just avoiding damage and getting accurate kills. DE seems to think the game plays like Payday, when in reality it's more like the older God of War games.
@@Dalzombie The time to kill, lack of feedback on enemy attacks, and just volume of enemies all agree that this game is not a take-your-time-and-aim experience, it's just kill shit as fast as possible so your life leech/regen/temporary invulnerability can keep up
@@HTacianas 100% agree with both comments. Hell I've made the comparison to Payday 2 in the past myself several times, it's so clear that's what DE thinks they're making without realizing what Warframe really is.
@@Dalzombie The combat of Payday has a much more tangible feeling to it. Each individual kill feels like you're contributing between the feedback effects and actual mechanics. In Warframe it just feels like you're bailing water out of a sinking ship. Technically helping but not really evident as enemies appear out of thin air and there's nothing satisfying about the combat. I kinda just zone out most of the time. I enjoy the game, but it's so disconnected from its genre.
I love how Nyx prime one of the least used primes of last year if not the least used, showed them that CC was too overpowered and needed to be nerfed. Granted Nyx was probably one of the CC frames that got hit the least with overguards addition but that’s no excuse. What are they going to do now rework every CC frame in the game? DE really need to put their ear to the ground and learn if something isn’t working it needs to go or needs changing and it has to be done quickly before it turns off a ton of people. A ton of friends and other people I know have quit Warframe since the changes cause the game is simply no fun anymore as everything from weapons to frames has been funnelled into such a small grouping in usability.
I love how when Itzal was getting nerfed scott went on a rant about how they don't want to force people to pick any one option due to meta restraints yet they've been slowly phasing crowd control out of existence for years with each update hard locking damage dealing frames into the only meta that works and making any crowd control centered frame nothing but a meme pick that can't contribute anything
Don't forget that damage in Railjack is so high that you were effectively forced to use Amesha if you wanted to actually fly around outside of your Railjack.
@@HolyApplebutter I mean, people realized pretty quickly that flying around outside your railjack was pointless once you got good weapons for your Railjack.
At least before this update CC frames were still usable and fun, now they're an objectively worse option and not fun to play when you're forced to deal with those stupid eximus who just ignore your abilities
I remember playing the first day when the eximus changes dropped. I was, formerly, a vauban main. After noticing that Eximus could now be free to two shot him in high level play without really much you could do about it if you're playing a full support roll, I very quickly stopped being a vuaban main.
Vauban main here and yeah i agree with this but is still realy good is flechet orb can do so much work and yeah the cc does not work until is overshield is broken but hey you got other ability too survive mod like rolling guard and helmint pillage of hildrine make me basicly unkillable but yeah gameplay change a lot ik those are bandade fix
@@proximityclockworkx1572 yes i know that why its a bandade fix its suck but it work and enjoy it a lot if DE would actuly put somthing else for vector pad for survivability it would be better but yeah thats one frame
@@proximityclockworkx1572 i hate helminth because to me it is nothing more than a "well we dont feel like making it work, so just replace it with whatever you think is better because we cant be fucked to buff things" band-aid. I dont use helminth at all because i dont like the premise of it and what it brings, but freedom is good. But when it comes to game balance it is probably one of the worst things theyve added besides Rivens because it just allows them to be even more lazy when it comes to buffing or making old things work.
It was pretty funny when DE said they want to increase crowd control's usage in meta and then made several enemies specifically to counter crowd control.
and on top of the new eximus units having overguard now theres other enemies who have overguard too that aren't even "eximus" units: ie the trokarians, orb vallis capture targets, noxes, & thrax units. the ancient healer change is okay imo since its an ability the unit has and not just an innate thing slapped on for no reason other than for tanky enemies.
Tbh Nellie weren't bad, just ran a smaller bubble and kept my eyes peel so I can run to them from the rift with a heavy slam and dip back into the void.
I'm surprised no one is mentioning that making enemies immune to status & CCs is replicating the same problem the old Nullifiers have: Punishing you for bringing specific builds or playstyles.
As of right now, I would rather just have a year where we clean things out the closet instead of new things or warframe reworks. We desperately need a change to alot of things like mods, pets, mission types, elemental damage, foundry, syndicates, conclave, mostly all of warframe
but that wouldn't be cost effective, how could they sell skins and force us to grind while they are fixing the old content? plus, the annoyance and frustration caused by these may break someone to spend some money on plat, am i right? they are greedy as fuck, if something doesn't make them money, they won't touch it, even if it is critically necessary
That was what they said they would do in 2021 I think, but all that happened as far as I can remember was the status rework (which just shifted things from corrosive to viral and made things even more broken than they were, and they didn't revisit it at all)
@@TiredDoktor6391Easy. Various amounts of content that people did not play can now be revisited by the players because it’s actualls fun or interesting.
As someone who has spent a lot of time using limbo, nyx, and vauban to now only really occasionally using vauban (I want to play him ok just let me live in denial) that intro hit me especially hard It truly does feel like this “AOE Meta” is DE’s attempt to just completely kill off like 85% of the weapons and frames in the game. What next? Is the next big update just going to be them staging a mass deletion of a swarm of old weapons and frames after they have effectively nerfed them into complete uselessness? Edit: removed a boring siderant about how I dislike eximus changes. No need to beat a dead horse on that topic imo.
Put it back please. The eximus rant. I hate this change, it made me quit this game, and it would do if someone were to share opinion with me on how bullcrap this new system is
@@ra6765 Ngl I’m right there with you, Zaraman was the second update in my entire time playing that I just don’t like it at all. First one was me refusing to do the Orphix Venom event because I just don’t like necramechs. But Zaraman? Aside from the fact that I think the new tileset looks amazing and the level of detail in all the design and artwork is incredible, I cannot find another single redeeming thing in this update. And right at the center, harboring the majority of my frustrations is definitely the eximus changes. I like CC, I like using CC, and I like majority of the CC Abilities in the game. (Obviously I like CC, I main vauban like the Sadomasochistic gremlin I am.) So now that eximus changes have made it so that those units, as long as overguard is active, are only affected by one and a half of all the CC abilities in the entire game, then yeah that’s really gonna piss me off. I say one and one half abilities specifically because Banshee’s Silence cannot stun them but can remove their auras and I count that as like half an ability. As for the other ability, I kinda don’t want to talk about it too much because I think DE just forgot about it and I don’t want it getting patched, but a certain signature weapon interaction that causes CC does still completely work on eximus with overguard still active. (Unless it has gotten patched recently idk)
@@normanmerrick9493 blame the people who've been saying "Warframe is too easy" for this. Now we have an entire mechanic making 50% of the game useless or at the very least inefficient. CC is to me a comfortable padding to save my butt if my guns fail to take things fast enough (i like experimenting with non meta weapons like assault rifles) but now all I can take is weapons that are proven to be strong, which then limits creativity and variety. Also I agree with you Zariman is my least favorite update by far. The tile looks cool, the house is fine, but the modes are not my cup of tea, the change to operators are not to my liking at all, and of course the main culprit is this stupid overguard mechanic. I hate it. I despise it. And the icing on the cake they nerfed the only thing I was looking forward to which is Gyre. Now she's on par with other subpar new frames like Caliban or Yareli. But that last bit about the unique interaction with a special ability might be worth taking a look at. I know you gotta be careful as to not get their attention, but gimme a quick hint perhaps? 😂
I only recently came back to Warframe. I can confidently say at least 70% of my games now consists entirely of Wukong/Kuva Zarr/Kuva Bramma/Kuva Ogris. I'd actually be interested in inspecting *anyone* I meet in-game who is using anything else, because I often wonder what they could possibly be using that might stand up to these shiny new 'meta toys' I often see even MR7 players perched on a ledge somewhere while their clones delete entire rooms, which is definitely a far cry from how I remembered my early game in WF; of actually trying to sneak through a mission, picking off enemies as I advance through rooms with new weapons and frames fresh off the foundry I got from progressing the missions, and desperately trying to get a grunt before they could sound the alarm. Lmao, I was so innocent at the time. This must be how geezers feel looking at kindergarteners with all the latest Iphones and whatnot
@@Drebolaskan Godamn that sentence about mr7s... That just makes me think of my own time playing Warframe: Mr1-7: made a beeline to Jupiter to farm valkyr, then just build her into a bullet sponge so I could tank *anything* the star chart threw at me Mr8-17: built my first prime frame, Mesa Prime, then proceeded to adapt to the play style of “run into room, nuke it, run to next room Mr18-30: built vauban prime, I had never played him before, fell in love with the slower pace CC play style picking off single targets with my genuinely overpowered weapons like my 12x cd prisma grinlok or my base Corinth (most used primary) it’s the right balance of fun and relaxing Mr31(current):.. GAUSS REDLINE AND RUN INTO THE ROOM AT NINETY MILES AN HOUR AND MACH CRASH EVERYTHING INTO A PILE SO YOU CAN MAG DUMP ASTILLA INTO THE CLUMP... THERE’S AN EXIMUS? SCREW HIM HEAVY SLAM INTO HIM WITH TEKKO PRIME AND START PUNCHING HIM TILL HE STOPS MOVING Sigh as you can see, I had to get a little more competitive I actually want to get any kills in the pub squads. Edit I can’t spell lol
Nyx and Limbo are literally my favourite warframes because I love manipulation classes in RPGs and such, turning enemies against each other and literally having their own pocket dimension to play with and abuse - not to mention how great their deluxe skins look - but why go through the trouble when Mesa do 4 then BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG etc? Plus people don't like playing around Limbo because even though his kit is way fun, the way he functions in public coop sucks ass. People can learn to play with/around him in coop, but he's the only one whose entire playstyle is actively this intrusive that I can think of off the top of my head. I think the only way to 'fix' Warframe is to build a sequel from scratch. At this point the spaghetti code is so bad and there's so many systems to try and make play nice with each other that starting from nothing seems the only viable option imo. I'll definitely play Warframe 2 if it gets made, but for me it's been bye-bye Warframe for a little while now.
im with you on that last part, ditch the current warframe and make a entirely new game, its just a clusterfuck of different systems that they thought would be cool
The diminishing returns idea is a good one. THe sentient already have a version of that where they 'adapt' to the cc and eventually break out of it themselves. That isn't a bad idea
How to kill your playerbase: Step 1: Make characters with fun and unique gimmicks! Step 2: Slowly make said characters irrelevant Step 3: Straight up punish players for using the cool and unique characters Step 4: Grofit...?
I don't know if anyone here has played GW2, but a concept from GW2 would be great in warframe for buffing up CC frames. In GW2, CC resistant enemies have something called a break bar, it's basically a 2nd healthbar that's only damaged by CC and regenerates when not damaged. Hard CC's directly damage the bar, where soft CC's like slows drain it like a DoT. Breaking the bar results in various things, depending on the content, but usually results in a long stun and significant damage vulnerability for a time. Some bosses even have break bars that, if broken, will stop them from doing dangerous attacks. All in all, I think this is an amazing concept that would feel right at place in warframe, and would make CC warframes feel relevant without hurting anyone's favourite nuking frames.
This would be an interesting retake on how overguard works: overguard is reduced across the board, absorbs 95% of damage instead of 100%, it can be damaged by CC effects be it ground slams, impact proc stuns or abilities on top of damage... but it can regenerate, say by 10%/s after 5s of not receiving damage. CC effects deal % damage to overguard, how much % is decided by evaluating the intensity of the effect ranging from a short stun to a full ragdoll.
Also make it have a hard set health for Amps; one of the big things they made overguard for was to make us use Operators to remove it, yet amps are the least effective way to do it, even with madurai. Hopefully i can explain it right, but Overguard should have a hardset health value towards amps; and it shouldnt go higher than a certain point. That or they need to severely increase the weakness overguard has towards void damage; because right now in all cases its just better to shoot them with guns than to hop out into operator and use an amp. Plus madurai buffs normal guns to, so why even use madurai to make amps work when it just makes whats already better, BETTER.
I wasn't too mad about Eximus units on the first update because, "This has potential and DE will fix it" But the recent fixes still don't fix the fundamental problems with the initial update. And to me the biggest are 1) Eximus units come into play earlier then when the operator is available and even if they didn't I'd still be earlier than a new player could effectively grind it out. 2) The operator still isn't more viable to use on Eximus armor than other conventional meta weapons, and still isn't survivable enough to stay out long enough to take it out 3) The idea that Eximus units are immune WHILE shielded is just effectively backwards, you want to CC something when you CAN'T immediately take it out. Even with the tweaks they will die immediately after removing the shield so its like they shouldn't even have health in the first place. These updates were made in tandem and yet they're like two separate mechanics that are at odds with each other. The Shields should be super weak to Operators, you should be able to CC them during it so its safe to USE the operator, and then the enemy should become effectively just the classic Eximus after that, a rage mode that's super tanky that requires the right elements and bane mods to widdle down (or melt given the right build) Switching between Operator and Warframe should be a dance with this new update, but ironically they made enemies that refuse to walk in step with that dance, how the hell did DE do it, sabotage their own goddamn reworks by making them as contradictory as possible.
remember when DE promised weakspot that would reduce the damage untill you got rid of them like Nox but for eximus? So CC Frame would give you more easy time gettint the hotspots? Yeah me neither , we got Overguard so i guess its that
I like CC frames but sadly it's just pointless with more and enemies being immune to it. Just go kuva zarr oonga bunga mode is the meta whether we like it or not.
So a month or two ago I decided to pick up Vauban again after subsuming him for the heck of it. I decided to use him on a defense void fissure mission and was actually having fun with his sucky vortex until the game got mad at me and decided to blast me with a bunch of eximus units. At least my teammates revived me immediately so I was able to go back to "sucking".
Eximus Units What DE intended: A single stronger enemy that takes more focused fire to eliminate, rather than just spraying bullets in their general direction. Abilities have a harder time working on them, so your priority targets shift from lots of smaller enemies to the one big one causing problems, leading to more thought going into gameplay than before. What DE implemented: Congratulations, at least half of the Frames that you enjoy playing as and hundreds more weapons are effectively obsolete at anything mid-level or higher, have fun grinding to get the same thing everyone else uses to deal with it! In all seriousness, I get what DE was attempting to go for, and in theory, it should work. The problem is that the game's scaling systems, be they level, damage, weapons, or abilities, only allow you to do so much against the ever-increasing frequency of enemies that can just ignore most (if not all) of what you may want to use. That's part of why I see my own endgame content being lower-level stuff; the weapons and Frames I enjoy don't always scale well. As for how to fix it, I see two possibilities (though I'm sure there are plenty more): 1) As you stated, let CC affect the Eximus units. It has been strangely inconsistent in terms of what CC works on the Eximus units, so having every CC work to a degree would at least allow some semblance of viability for the Frames that rely on it. 2) Make Void damage (specifically from the Operator) do more than tickle the overshield of the Eximus units. I can see what they tried to do with this one, but the options for DPS with the Operator aren't going to be as strong as the higher-tier weapons that you could use with your Frame. If the Operator's damage scaling against the overshield of Eximus units was scaled up better (most likely by making the damage done take off a percentage rather than a flat number for scaling purposes), then there would be more reason to use the Operator to try to face them. I love the game (to an unhealthy degree at this point), so all of what I outlined above comes from the perspective of wanting to make things better so more people can enjoy it.
Thank you very much for telling me more reasons to stay away from Warframe, this also does give ground to the critique that DE's best and only greatest trait is building hype.
The big problem with crowd control is it used to be a good strategy but the requirements to sustain some gamemodes in terms of kills per minute are so high that it's impossible to effectively play them without boosting loot or area of effect
I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but I feel like a good way to make crowd control more viable would be to make overshields take a percentage of damage instead of being immune outright. That way, players who don't have many options early game (Mag) have a way of dealing with eximus, and CC frames would have more viability in higher level missions.
I had a problem with the new eximus units from day one, partially because it brought my attempts to grind through Steel Path to a screeching halt. I love cc frames and I just straight up can't use them anymore since most of them are incredibly squishy and have absolutely no guard against things getting past their cc. I also get to the point where I actually cannot tell what is going on because I got knocked into a parasitic eximus circle and there's 7 eximi all around me. Literally just a blur of color.
No. You see Eximus units are a special soldier able to use techniques that are very close to what the void plane is. The rift is just a weaker void ability. It's actually the weakest form of void ability amongst others like Nova, Mirage or Xaku. I'm sure Eximus units have gotten hold of some Entrati technology to be able to perform these amazing feats of power. You are not the gods of war you thought you were. You've fallen from grace with Eximus powers all up in your face.
@@biomechanicalcyber-jesus7573 Then Limbo expects us to CC for him while he's dancing. I dislike any dancing Limbos out there. That's so out of character.
i never understood the idea of offering the player options to delay threats with cc, then create literal threats to said options. like I understand why bosses have cc immunity, but outside of that, some of the enemies have cc resistance for no explainable reason.
My solution to overguard is that it would be immune to soft CC like electric procs, fire status panic, radiation confusion, but only resistant to hard CC sush as reduced duration or something.
Okay so maybe, what if there was a system that made eximus get knocked down and slowed by like 90% until they got back up on each CC ability, with diminishing returns on each time the same ability was used/procced its CC on them? I don't know, balancing mass CC is actually kinda hard but it would be better than what we have now. Not that DE's going to even think of that anyway.
I think one of the things that has always bugged me was Nekro's soul punch. The move doesn't actually blow back the enemies behind it. I've always wondered why he even had it ever since he was first released, or why DE never made it worth using.
Y'know.. i came back to play this.. thing, when the angel of zariman got released, just to see the new stuff, at the begining i was actually enjoying myself somehow, yea the rep farm for literal house items was meh but i had actual fun with the quest and exploring the Zariman. Then i got to meet the Child of DE "Solution for people saying the game is to easy" aka Eximus at first was midly annoying, shurgged it off and went on, then i tried to had a chill Mot Steel path with some friends who were also returning to the game. Yeah, we spent a Long time complaning to each other about how unfun that was and we Uninstall that thing And go play an actual fun game and now a days Warframe is the low joke that we keep making fun whenever something or a company is garbage. Overall a good trade in my opinion
That last pill to swallow hurts the most, smh 😔 Jokes aside, I do wish CC was good again. And that most of the arsenal (with the exception of starter weapons obviously) is useable.
Band aid fix definitely needs to happen. Either cap overguard scaling or have diminishing effectiveness. Or heck just have it be half as effective. I used to play nyx, Vauban and limbo occasionally now it's such a hard sell for me to use them. Not even status effects work on them except cold iirc. But tbf the eximus rework only becomes stupid in endurance. I think
What i really hate about DE is that they have great ideas that sound incredibly fun, but the moment they have to integrate them into the game they shit the bed slip on said discharge fall down the next staircase and break the toy they promised the players into a thousand little pieces.
Yeah, it sucks how some frames have been hit hard by all the CC denial. This is the only issue I have with the new eximus units, and as a Baruuk main they don't affect me, but I would like to see all frames being used.
As a Vauban, Nyx, and general support frame fan this hurts. I love my Mesa Prime and Valkyr Prime but I don't what that to be the only frames I can play for anything above the mid game. It's frustrating watching so many powers just hit like like marshmallows tossed underhand using a soggy noodle. SO many frames and weapons get left behind that other than mastery and just collecting , there is almost no reason to have them ((other than just messing around in lower level missions, which can still be fun.))
CC was rarely used on anything under level 100 or some super hard enemies, that are rare. I haven't played WF for a very long time, but if you wanted to nuke areas and kill everyone, there were frames (Nova...) that when properly augmented had abilities that could do so. Also weapons like Tonkor (3+ forma). But I haven't got a clue what it's like now. It got bad for me when they nerfed Syndicate rewards and removed some leveling maps while adding the stupid Controller (Operator) that totally broke the narrative of the game for me.
Imagine if you were a returning player who miss warframe in pass two year and seeking through the internet to find out if that's any way to play warframe without big explosion and finally found the answer of all questions "explosion is the only way"
I find it really funny, I’m a very depressing way, that the only way to make single target weapons viable is things like concealed explosives…making them aoe weapons…
I would say I'm one of those fortunate few that enjoys Baruuk (wave-hand 4 is great damage for hordes AND for Eximus units, plus his many ways of stacking DR or disabling non-Eximus mooks), but I wouldn't want that at the expense of never getting to play something like Vauban and realistically never taking them to higher-level content due to a high reliance on CC powers (though Booben at least has his 1 Augment and the spike-launching portion of his 2, so he can manage some damage; his 3 is flashy but mediocre compared to the aforementioned powers). I play Warframe mostly for the abilities of the titular part of gear, even if the guns/melees are great as well. Warframes can/should be fine to specialize in theme or role, lending themselves to prefered styles of play; but they should also be able to do their tricks and powers in a mission with some large degree of effectiveness in those missions they're intended for (like Ivara for stealth missions, or Nidus for survival).
Haven't played warframe in a few years and it's good to see that it's still suffering from the same issues of power creep, scope creep, increasing visual clutter, and general unwillingness to go back and polish/revise existing systems and content that I noticed all those years ago.
Their main mistake is in the very beginning of making the game - they made players too strong and enemies too dumb, and our power keeps growing with the new builds and weapons, while the only way for enemies to be stronger is by not letting us use pretty much anything. And from my point of view you can't even fix this issue. You would have to completely remove EVERY AoE nuke ability, crowd control, weapon, reduce enemy density but increase their hp and cap their level at some point when it never scales higher, get rid of infinite missions scaling and instead increase the rewards of such, or remove them for good, give enemies better A.I. so they can dodge our bullets, hide behind the walls and shoot, become invisible, run away, whatever. Pretty much turn Warframe into Destiny where enemies' lives matter. That is impossible, it would be easier to delete a game at this point. Another approach they can take is nearly the same, except they should make some bosses with no immunity stages but instead with more interesting mechanics which will favor single target weapons. Make single target meta, reduce enemies spawnrate, make them level 9999 if needed since our builds are so good, but keep bosses' health optimal enough. There should be a reason for us to run boss missions and that is not for acquiring Warframes, make it more rewarding. I dunno I can't even really think of any solution, but I'd love to see all enemies start with level cap at least, that's gonna make the game somewhat challenging.
DE: "We're going to making it easier than ever to strip enemy armor!" Players: "Oh wow! We get better options to make enemies not take five hours to get through their high defenses!" DE: "Yes, except for eximus units, which we're making them 50 times more common, and they have a shield which resists everything but those crappy voids amps, and block any of your powers that can actually make enemies easier to deal with." Me: "...what..."
There's a reason why I only used the Acceltra for mastery fodder, it was simply too powerful. It was the meta when Gauss was released and everyone flocked to get their hands on it, I didn't touch it until I was grinding out weapons and frames increase my mastery rank and once it was maxed out it, went right into the bin. I don't have anything against aoe weapons, my favorite weapons are the Zarr and the Corinth and the reason why enjoyed using them is because it gave me more of a challenge, instead of blitzing through a hoard of enemies I would have to deal with them in separate groups. I don't enjoy having to run with the meta just to have fun, it takes the fun out the game and causes it to be far to grindy.
I know im a bit late to the party, but i have an idea for Overguard! - eximus make themselves vulnerable when they use their channeled attack, i.e. a Blitz's line of explosions. During said attack, they either lose their overguard or simply the CC-immunity part of it, allowing you to bait eximus into attacks and capitalize with a well timed ability cast, such as Banish. This would incentivize you to actually, well, think in moment-to-moment combat (crazy idea) when an eximus shows up. This would obviously have to be individually tuned based on the eximus type (such as toxic eximus, which dont really have a specific attack, just a damaging aura), but i think it would be a good start to tuning their defensive power. *also, blocking an enemy's melee should ALWAYS allow you to parry imo. I shouldnt need a mod slot for something that most players probably have never heard of.
Me, as an hitscan weapons enthusiastic (Amprex, Synapse and Gammacor) (fuck Kuva Nukor) feel like im able to say: the funnier weapons are sometimes the bad ones.
I recall one of the first sorties I completed with a friend, he took Inaros and I umbra. We feared the bursa enough so he just devoured it for years and let me complete the mission
the way i see it overhealth on eximus would be a PERFECT opportunity to give cc frames a good role in the game. hear me out: 1. Overhealth doesnt take damage from non-single target dps abilitys 2. direct damage from weapons ignore overhealth and damages health directly, even if they still have overhealth 3. cc can still control enemys that have overhealth this does multiple things: first, dps actually has a gap now second, all dps frames have some secondary means of survive besides just killing everything, be it cc, tanking, healing or something else, unlike cc frames that die without cc third, single target weapons get a little indirect buff, same as single target damage abilitys, finally giving you a reason to use those two fourth, cc actually has a use, by taking care of those enemys that dont get deleted by dps abilitys tl:dr overhealth blocks dps abilitys, but not direct damage and cc
Haven't really touched the game since Tonkor and EV Trinity Prime were meta, and looking at this doen't really make me wanna go back in [also because progression changes completly scrambled my map and I refuse to reunlock everything]
They should just do what the Borderlands series does. It has dedicated CC characters, but very few enemies are immune to CC. Instead Borderlands spawns stronger tankier versions of enemies called "badass" units. They can be CC'd but they are priority targets. One alone can body you while it takes multiple trash units to even make you Flinch. They earn the title of "badass"
There is one small niche left for CC. At least with Inaro's 3 (I don't know if this works the same with other abilities), the enemies incapicated do not count to capturing in interception or crate capturing.
DE: NO! Stop using AOE Also DE: So, here's a gamemode where you have to defend a point whilst enemies keep coming at you in ever increasing numbers, trying to kill you and/or the thing you're meant to protect. Why the fuck are there so many defense style missions? Mobile defense, defense, hijack, disruption, excavation, infested salvage, those new zariman missions, the earth sabotage. I'm sure that I'm missing some.
I love the eximus rework but I hate what it did to the meta. Strong frames (tanks) are still strong, struggling frames (copi cough cough, I mean gloom frames) are struggling even more.
still funny to me how one of their big things with overshield was to make you use operator more (implying operator would be most efficient to remove overshield) but because they did it wrong and unless you use madurai (which still isnt as good) its still better to just shoot them with guns and never use operator for it.
Hydroid is my SON and I would die for him, but when they released his deluxe skin it felt like an insult because I can't use him anymore. I still feel like the whole thing about DE removing how his stuff stacked with khora and nekros and then putting it back is why they nerfed CC. It didn't look good to remove the use for them, so nerf CC so no one will play them. Ignoring the fact that some people played them because they were actually fun for them.
Man, I love Nyx. I'm one of the minority that likes Nyx and somehow they want to drop those numbers even further and people start flocking back to the meta frames. Don't get me wrong, I still play Nyx a lot but what is Nyx and the rest of the CC frames going to do in an Eximus Stronghold mission?
I feel the particle engine part sooo much. I've had to use Aoe weapons because i literally cannot see the enemy through the blinding supernova of ability graphics.
DE doesn't have a test team, If they had they would see how terrible the balance is. And at this point the game is in a dire need of an FFXIV: A Realm Reborn kind of treatment.
In my opinion, the best way to change Overguard is to make it resist ability damage and ability buffs to damage, but not crowd control. IE, if a Mesa locks onto an Eximus with Peacemaker, they can get hit with maybe 4x as many shots without their Overguard breaking. Or Rhino's Roar doesn't effect damage dealt to Overguard. It gives a use for CC again while also serving as a cap for the DPS meta.
![Beating WARFRAME Without Jumping? [PART 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K_8GnDXM13U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Beating WARFRAME Without Jumping? [PART 1]](/img/tr.png)
I think one of the big issues is that DE's idea of increasing difficulty is just making more of your options unusable, but for a game that prides itself on the diversity of ways it allows players to deal with challenges that's really stupid
Remember when vazarin could heal objectives but it died because muh scrlet speer?
@@doctorhealsgood5456 Oh, ohohohoo.
You do not remind a vazarin main about the existence of that ''thing''. We do it enough ourselves!
- DE: It has come to our attention that vazarin heals this very fragile (limited-time event) defence objective (which won't appear ever again). We do not like this, so we will ""''buff''"" other sources of healing and slightly nerf (butcher) vazarin.
- The humble few Vazarin mains: Wh-what? But it doesn't heal the thingy, we would know, we tried it. The hek did we do to be getting nerfed all of a sudden?
- DE: *Hotfixes while not wearing their hearing aid, as they do.*
- The humble few Vazain mains: You removed the invurnability frames!? This is outrageous!! We can't heal a thingy under fire without invurnability frames; and thingy is always under fire!!!
- DE: *Continues not to wear their hearing aid, which they really need.*
- Vazarin mains now even closer to extinction: We will remember this...
DE's idea of difficulty is bringing the numbers up, which doesn't work in a game where enemies are auto-aiming bullet sponges.
@@Alpha.Phenix Wait, we were endangered? I thought Unairu was on the list?
@@user-vm4sz5ms7e So many people talk about Unairu that it actually became popular.
Now tell me how often you hear about Vazarin.
Now tell me how often you hear about Vazarin, from people outside of the Vazarin species.
Design philosophy collapsing in on itself as Scott draws up another fat fucking elite unit that ignores all abilities
Doesnt matter how right you are. Scott thinks you're wrong.
we need to dox scott
dont worry, DE plays the game; they know whats best, and they listen!
@@fire_drake12.arc.24 The most painful here is that I still remember the time when I would've interpreted this as a completely serious sentence.
The only time I remember that line was true was when DE finally sat down and ran an interception mission without using their dev accounts. After being badgered by the community to fix interception for so long, they had two of the main people they have up for their talks actually do it and got the pants beat off them so bad. Afterwards, they moved interception to the outside “optional” points on the map until they fixed interception-gate. That was many moons ago, mind you.
I'm actually impressed with how DE wanted to kill the aoe meta and ended up making aoe meta the only way to play the game.
Why it literally happens everytime, thr just nerfed void dash so eidolons would take longer so ppl started shooting thru nova portals.
if you expected DE to actually fix the core issues of their game you're putting your eggs into the wrong basket
I'm sorry what did you say Mike?!
Your gonna need to explain that it sound pretty cool.( And I need more strategy to beat the eidilons
@@The_cat_father just use void strike form madurai and new arcane form Zariman which gives crit chance on operator energy depleted - bam, your propa with certus brace has ensured crits breaking hidrolist shield with maximum 2 shots without volt shield.
Not "the only way to play the game", but "only way to play the game without the issues".
It's amazing how they added an augment for Frost that actually made him able to do damage in higher end activities
and in the SAME UPDATE, AN ENEMY CLASS THAT IGNORES IT.
Sounds like development teams doing things without talking with each other.
You know what's funny? Eximus not only hit limbo through whatever plane they are with their abilities, but they can enter the rift without being affected by stasis. Now what does that mean? Well they will shoot normally since they are not frozen, but their projectiles will freeze. Do you remember how in the past limbo had a cap on projectiles he can freeze? Yea thats still a thing. Do you remember how there was a visual indication when stasis was nearing the collapse point from projectiles? Yea thats no longer a thing.
Overall 10/10 very balanced completely kills of the entire kit of a mediocre frame thats not even that popular
Warframe would ostensibly not be Warframe without Limbo being mechanically jank in some way.
DE has a very strong and apparent hatred of Limbo
@@pathfindersavant3988 Then why did they create it? It's just so idiotic.
DE: *creates something that's not hot garbage*
also DE but later: oh no, I've made a mistake! Scott! Find the nerfhammer, quick!
I was doing a no defense objective damage riven with Limbo vs the infested and cried on wave 4 when an exploder eximus effortlessly slipped by when I wasn't looking.
That's cuz even DEsgusting is getting tired of having to dump limbos
How does DE go from wanting to gut AOE and high damage abilities to making it the only way to realistically play later content?
AOE weapons and abilities was always the most effective way to play the game. Sonicor spam, Mirage+Simulor, Derelict defence with ogris/penta, boring survival in orokin tube with torid+Vauban and other relics of old meta. I get it, running around, killing everything in sight is bad, but it's infinitely more fun than what was before.
@@noriman4335 honestly no.
@@Letsanum ah yes, good old days of sitting in corner for hours, great fun
@@noriman4335 honestly I like sitting in a corner way more than just bombing rooms
@@hachikuji_mayoi I didn't. If I had to do something like that, I'dve picked Ivara and then use TinyTask.
this doesn’t even mention the fact that new players get absolutely steamrolled by these guys without mods or meta options of dealing with overguard. whats a brand new player who had the misfortune of choosing mag gonna do against an eximus unit with their unmodded mk1 braton? they literally had to nerf the level and length of the grendel missions because overguarded eximus made them literally impossible how did they think this was fine
Something I’ve learned from games developers that don’t listen, you literally have to leave the game and bring active player numbers dangerously low in order for them to actually listen. DE isn’t the only game who acts like this. So if you want change take an extended break after Tennocon 2022
Ah, no, that would mean thinking about the game progression. And here at DE we take our pride in not doing that since 2012.
@@TennoSkoom 😂😂😆
DE doesen't "think" anymore, it's a AAA company now, that, i remind you, NOT making any AAA's...
spam her third ability we suppose, the one that grants 50 shields per cast :^)
I didn't think that crowd control was that bad, even with the changes they've done. But then I went to the Zariman to do the Mobile Defence mission on The Steel Path, and omg I wanted to cook my brain with the Nukor with how ball bustingly difficult it was. Not only is Steel Path Zariman completely dead in terms of player count, but try and keep a fucking console alive when you have high level Eximus AND Thrax units railing you faster than the femboy in your dreams. I have now come to the conclusion that crowd control is still viable BUT it's dying quickly.
THIS is my favorite comment I've ever read, but isn't the femboy usually the one getting railed? From personal experience, of course.
I was playing hildryn and turned around for LESS THAN A SECOND and the point got one shot by a thrax that spawned inside the objective.
What if you became the femboy in your dreams? 🤔
@@gavinlaster5909 Same, was playing Wisp and got knockbacked by two eximus that does that wall of fire thing I recovered kill those then I failed, in the span of like 3 seconds because a Thrax during that mayhem spawned and took out the objective.
It's so weird that a game that is considered to be a horde shooter is so stringent on CC when EVERY horde shooter is dependent upon CC.
That's the main problem really, or one of them at least. The community at large understands and knows that this game is a horde shooter, but DE still refuses to acknowledge that that is what the game has become, and thus refuse to treat and balance it like so.
Payday is probably one of the best examples of horde shooters with minimal CC. There's some newer mechanics that added it, but for the longest time it was just avoiding damage and getting accurate kills. DE seems to think the game plays like Payday, when in reality it's more like the older God of War games.
@@Dalzombie The time to kill, lack of feedback on enemy attacks, and just volume of enemies all agree that this game is not a take-your-time-and-aim experience, it's just kill shit as fast as possible so your life leech/regen/temporary invulnerability can keep up
@@HTacianas 100% agree with both comments. Hell I've made the comparison to Payday 2 in the past myself several times, it's so clear that's what DE thinks they're making without realizing what Warframe really is.
@@Dalzombie The combat of Payday has a much more tangible feeling to it. Each individual kill feels like you're contributing between the feedback effects and actual mechanics. In Warframe it just feels like you're bailing water out of a sinking ship. Technically helping but not really evident as enemies appear out of thin air and there's nothing satisfying about the combat. I kinda just zone out most of the time. I enjoy the game, but it's so disconnected from its genre.
I love how Nyx prime one of the least used primes of last year if not the least used, showed them that CC was too overpowered and needed to be nerfed. Granted Nyx was probably one of the CC frames that got hit the least with overguards addition but that’s no excuse. What are they going to do now rework every CC frame in the game? DE really need to put their ear to the ground and learn if something isn’t working it needs to go or needs changing and it has to be done quickly before it turns off a ton of people. A ton of friends and other people I know have quit Warframe since the changes cause the game is simply no fun anymore as everything from weapons to frames has been funnelled into such a small grouping in usability.
As a recent Limbo enthusiast, the anxiety I get at 3:04 is real.
And this year at Tennocon a frame made entirely out of particle effects
So... Gantulyst: the warframe?
new text warning before downloading warframe will be "you will be blinded"
I love how when Itzal was getting nerfed scott went on a rant about how they don't want to force people to pick any one option due to meta restraints yet they've been slowly phasing crowd control out of existence for years with each update hard locking damage dealing frames into the only meta that works and making any crowd control centered frame nothing but a meme pick that can't contribute anything
Don't forget that damage in Railjack is so high that you were effectively forced to use Amesha if you wanted to actually fly around outside of your Railjack.
@@McDouggal "Were?"
Is it not like that now? Because I went Amnesha and never looked back.
@@HolyApplebutter I mean, people realized pretty quickly that flying around outside your railjack was pointless once you got good weapons for your Railjack.
At least before this update CC frames were still usable and fun, now they're an objectively worse option and not fun to play when you're forced to deal with those stupid eximus who just ignore your abilities
I remember playing the first day when the eximus changes dropped. I was, formerly, a vauban main. After noticing that Eximus could now be free to two shot him in high level play without really much you could do about it if you're playing a full support roll, I very quickly stopped being a vuaban main.
Still vauban main here, (just play him far less than I actually want to anymore) here to 110% agree with you.
Vauban main here and yeah i agree with this but is still realy good is flechet orb can do so much work and yeah the cc does not work until is overshield is broken but hey you got other ability too survive mod like rolling guard and helmint pillage of hildrine make me basicly unkillable but yeah gameplay change a lot ik those are bandade fix
@@demedorwraith4300 You shouldn't have to result to helminth usage because DE made an entire playstyle not worth bothering with.
@@proximityclockworkx1572 yes i know that why its a bandade fix its suck but it work and enjoy it a lot if DE would actuly put somthing else for vector pad for survivability it would be better but yeah thats one frame
@@proximityclockworkx1572 i hate helminth because to me it is nothing more than a "well we dont feel like making it work, so just replace it with whatever you think is better because we cant be fucked to buff things" band-aid. I dont use helminth at all because i dont like the premise of it and what it brings, but freedom is good. But when it comes to game balance it is probably one of the worst things theyve added besides Rivens because it just allows them to be even more lazy when it comes to buffing or making old things work.
It was pretty funny when DE said they want to increase crowd control's usage in meta and then made several enemies specifically to counter crowd control.
and on top of the new eximus units having overguard now theres other enemies who have overguard too that aren't even "eximus" units: ie the trokarians, orb vallis capture targets, noxes, & thrax units.
the ancient healer change is okay imo since its an ability the unit has and not just an innate thing slapped on for no reason other than for tanky enemies.
Hey
Remember when limbo was afraid of JUST nullifiers and bombards?
Tbh Nellie weren't bad, just ran a smaller bubble and kept my eyes peel so I can run to them from the rift with a heavy slam and dip back into the void.
At least Overguarded enemies bullets don’t move in stasis😥
I'm surprised no one is mentioning that making enemies immune to status & CCs is replicating the same problem the old Nullifiers have: Punishing you for bringing specific builds or playstyles.
As of right now, I would rather just have a year where we clean things out the closet instead of new things or warframe reworks. We desperately need a change to alot of things like mods, pets, mission types, elemental damage, foundry, syndicates, conclave, mostly all of warframe
but that wouldn't be cost effective, how could they sell skins and force us to grind while they are fixing the old content? plus, the annoyance and frustration caused by these may break someone to spend some money on plat, am i right?
they are greedy as fuck, if something doesn't make them money, they won't touch it, even if it is critically necessary
That was what they said they would do in 2021 I think, but all that happened as far as I can remember was the status rework (which just shifted things from corrosive to viral and made things even more broken than they were, and they didn't revisit it at all)
That's what i was saying for the past 3 years straigth now.
Fuck...
@@Drischa to be fair the status rework made weapons that deal over 100% status and are automatic a lot stronger, and can decimate in SP without crits.
@@TiredDoktor6391Easy. Various amounts of content that people did not play can now be revisited by the players because it’s actualls fun or interesting.
As someone who has spent a lot of time using limbo, nyx, and vauban to now only really occasionally using vauban (I want to play him ok just let me live in denial)
that intro hit me especially hard
It truly does feel like this “AOE Meta” is DE’s attempt to just completely kill off like 85% of the weapons and frames in the game. What next? Is the next big update just going to be them staging a mass deletion of a swarm of old weapons and frames after they have effectively nerfed them into complete uselessness?
Edit: removed a boring siderant about how I dislike eximus changes. No need to beat a dead horse on that topic imo.
Put it back please. The eximus rant. I hate this change, it made me quit this game, and it would do if someone were to share opinion with me on how bullcrap this new system is
@@ra6765
Ngl I’m right there with you, Zaraman was the second update in my entire time playing that I just don’t like it at all. First one was me refusing to do the Orphix Venom event because I just don’t like necramechs. But Zaraman? Aside from the fact that I think the new tileset looks amazing and the level of detail in all the design and artwork is incredible, I cannot find another single redeeming thing in this update. And right at the center, harboring the majority of my frustrations is definitely the eximus changes. I like CC, I like using CC, and I like majority of the CC Abilities in the game. (Obviously I like CC, I main vauban like the Sadomasochistic gremlin I am.) So now that eximus changes have made it so that those units, as long as overguard is active, are only affected by one and a half of all the CC abilities in the entire game, then yeah that’s really gonna piss me off.
I say one and one half abilities specifically because Banshee’s Silence cannot stun them but can remove their auras and I count that as like half an ability. As for the other ability, I kinda don’t want to talk about it too much because I think DE just forgot about it and I don’t want it getting patched, but a certain signature weapon interaction that causes CC does still completely work on eximus with overguard still active. (Unless it has gotten patched recently idk)
@@normanmerrick9493 blame the people who've been saying "Warframe is too easy" for this. Now we have an entire mechanic making 50% of the game useless or at the very least inefficient. CC is to me a comfortable padding to save my butt if my guns fail to take things fast enough (i like experimenting with non meta weapons like assault rifles) but now all I can take is weapons that are proven to be strong, which then limits creativity and variety. Also I agree with you Zariman is my least favorite update by far. The tile looks cool, the house is fine, but the modes are not my cup of tea, the change to operators are not to my liking at all, and of course the main culprit is this stupid overguard mechanic. I hate it. I despise it. And the icing on the cake they nerfed the only thing I was looking forward to which is Gyre. Now she's on par with other subpar new frames like Caliban or Yareli.
But that last bit about the unique interaction with a special ability might be worth taking a look at. I know you gotta be careful as to not get their attention, but gimme a quick hint perhaps? 😂
I only recently came back to Warframe. I can confidently say at least 70% of my games now consists entirely of Wukong/Kuva Zarr/Kuva Bramma/Kuva Ogris. I'd actually be interested in inspecting *anyone* I meet in-game who is using anything else, because I often wonder what they could possibly be using that might stand up to these shiny new 'meta toys'
I often see even MR7 players perched on a ledge somewhere while their clones delete entire rooms, which is definitely a far cry from how I remembered my early game in WF; of actually trying to sneak through a mission, picking off enemies as I advance through rooms with new weapons and frames fresh off the foundry I got from progressing the missions, and desperately trying to get a grunt before they could sound the alarm.
Lmao, I was so innocent at the time. This must be how geezers feel looking at kindergarteners with all the latest Iphones and whatnot
@@Drebolaskan
Godamn that sentence about mr7s...
That just makes me think of my own time playing Warframe:
Mr1-7: made a beeline to Jupiter to farm valkyr, then just build her into a bullet sponge so I could tank *anything* the star chart threw at me
Mr8-17: built my first prime frame, Mesa Prime, then proceeded to adapt to the play style of “run into room, nuke it, run to next room
Mr18-30: built vauban prime, I had never played him before, fell in love with the slower pace CC play style picking off single targets with my genuinely overpowered weapons like my 12x cd prisma grinlok or my base Corinth (most used primary) it’s the right balance of fun and relaxing
Mr31(current):..
GAUSS REDLINE AND RUN INTO THE ROOM AT NINETY MILES AN HOUR AND MACH CRASH EVERYTHING INTO A PILE SO YOU CAN MAG DUMP ASTILLA INTO THE CLUMP... THERE’S AN EXIMUS? SCREW HIM HEAVY SLAM INTO HIM WITH TEKKO PRIME AND START PUNCHING HIM TILL HE STOPS MOVING
Sigh as you can see, I had to get a little more competitive I actually want to get any kills in the pub squads.
Edit I can’t spell lol
Nyx and Limbo are literally my favourite warframes because I love manipulation classes in RPGs and such, turning enemies against each other and literally having their own pocket dimension to play with and abuse - not to mention how great their deluxe skins look - but why go through the trouble when Mesa do 4 then BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG etc? Plus people don't like playing around Limbo because even though his kit is way fun, the way he functions in public coop sucks ass. People can learn to play with/around him in coop, but he's the only one whose entire playstyle is actively this intrusive that I can think of off the top of my head.
I think the only way to 'fix' Warframe is to build a sequel from scratch. At this point the spaghetti code is so bad and there's so many systems to try and make play nice with each other that starting from nothing seems the only viable option imo. I'll definitely play Warframe 2 if it gets made, but for me it's been bye-bye Warframe for a little while now.
Talk about intrusive, what about cockblock Frost?
im with you on that last part, ditch the current warframe and make a entirely new game, its just a clusterfuck of different systems that they thought would be cool
The second game just gonna START with all the crap that the last game left it with.
The diminishing returns idea is a good one. THe sentient already have a version of that where they 'adapt' to the cc and eventually break out of it themselves. That isn't a bad idea
How to kill your playerbase:
Step 1: Make characters with fun and unique gimmicks!
Step 2: Slowly make said characters irrelevant
Step 3: Straight up punish players for using the cool and unique characters
Step 4: Grofit...?
some stupid shit plankton would do
I don't know if anyone here has played GW2, but a concept from GW2 would be great in warframe for buffing up CC frames.
In GW2, CC resistant enemies have something called a break bar, it's basically a 2nd healthbar that's only damaged by CC and regenerates when not damaged. Hard CC's directly damage the bar, where soft CC's like slows drain it like a DoT.
Breaking the bar results in various things, depending on the content, but usually results in a long stun and significant damage vulnerability for a time. Some bosses even have break bars that, if broken, will stop them from doing dangerous attacks.
All in all, I think this is an amazing concept that would feel right at place in warframe, and would make CC warframes feel relevant without hurting anyone's favourite nuking frames.
This would be an interesting retake on how overguard works: overguard is reduced across the board, absorbs 95% of damage instead of 100%, it can be damaged by CC effects be it ground slams, impact proc stuns or abilities on top of damage... but it can regenerate, say by 10%/s after 5s of not receiving damage. CC effects deal % damage to overguard, how much % is decided by evaluating the intensity of the effect ranging from a short stun to a full ragdoll.
if de want to keep overguard heres a simple fix, make cc just not as effective, just not immune to it
they have stated before that they will never do that, what they had to say about all this is "it is what it is"
Also make it have a hard set health for Amps; one of the big things they made overguard for was to make us use Operators to remove it, yet amps are the least effective way to do it, even with madurai.
Hopefully i can explain it right, but Overguard should have a hardset health value towards amps; and it shouldnt go higher than a certain point. That or they need to severely increase the weakness overguard has towards void damage; because right now in all cases its just better to shoot them with guns than to hop out into operator and use an amp. Plus madurai buffs normal guns to, so why even use madurai to make amps work when it just makes whats already better, BETTER.
@@fire_drake12.arc.24 100% agree
I wasn't too mad about Eximus units on the first update because, "This has potential and DE will fix it"
But the recent fixes still don't fix the fundamental problems with the initial update. And to me the biggest are
1) Eximus units come into play earlier then when the operator is available and even if they didn't I'd still be earlier than a new player could effectively grind it out.
2) The operator still isn't more viable to use on Eximus armor than other conventional meta weapons, and still isn't survivable enough to stay out long enough to take it out
3) The idea that Eximus units are immune WHILE shielded is just effectively backwards, you want to CC something when you CAN'T immediately take it out. Even with the tweaks they will die immediately after removing the shield so its like they shouldn't even have health in the first place.
These updates were made in tandem and yet they're like two separate mechanics that are at odds with each other. The Shields should be super weak to Operators, you should be able to CC them during it so its safe to USE the operator, and then the enemy should become effectively just the classic Eximus after that, a rage mode that's super tanky that requires the right elements and bane mods to widdle down (or melt given the right build)
Switching between Operator and Warframe should be a dance with this new update, but ironically they made enemies that refuse to walk in step with that dance, how the hell did DE do it, sabotage their own goddamn reworks by making them as contradictory as possible.
remember when DE promised weakspot that would reduce the damage untill you got rid of them like Nox but for eximus? So CC Frame would give you more easy time gettint the hotspots? Yeah me neither , we got Overguard so i guess its that
I like CC frames but sadly it's just pointless with more and enemies being immune to it. Just go kuva zarr oonga bunga mode is the meta whether we like it or not.
Next Warframe update: particles now have a super ludicrous setting which can't be turned off.
1 ogris shot w napalm crashes the game
So a month or two ago I decided to pick up Vauban again after subsuming him for the heck of it. I decided to use him on a defense void fissure mission and was actually having fun with his sucky vortex until the game got mad at me and decided to blast me with a bunch of eximus units. At least my teammates revived me immediately so I was able to go back to "sucking".
Eximus Units
What DE intended: A single stronger enemy that takes more focused fire to eliminate, rather than just spraying bullets in their general direction. Abilities have a harder time working on them, so your priority targets shift from lots of smaller enemies to the one big one causing problems, leading to more thought going into gameplay than before.
What DE implemented: Congratulations, at least half of the Frames that you enjoy playing as and hundreds more weapons are effectively obsolete at anything mid-level or higher, have fun grinding to get the same thing everyone else uses to deal with it!
In all seriousness, I get what DE was attempting to go for, and in theory, it should work. The problem is that the game's scaling systems, be they level, damage, weapons, or abilities, only allow you to do so much against the ever-increasing frequency of enemies that can just ignore most (if not all) of what you may want to use. That's part of why I see my own endgame content being lower-level stuff; the weapons and Frames I enjoy don't always scale well.
As for how to fix it, I see two possibilities (though I'm sure there are plenty more):
1) As you stated, let CC affect the Eximus units. It has been strangely inconsistent in terms of what CC works on the Eximus units, so having every CC work to a degree would at least allow some semblance of viability for the Frames that rely on it.
2) Make Void damage (specifically from the Operator) do more than tickle the overshield of the Eximus units. I can see what they tried to do with this one, but the options for DPS with the Operator aren't going to be as strong as the higher-tier weapons that you could use with your Frame. If the Operator's damage scaling against the overshield of Eximus units was scaled up better (most likely by making the damage done take off a percentage rather than a flat number for scaling purposes), then there would be more reason to use the Operator to try to face them.
I love the game (to an unhealthy degree at this point), so all of what I outlined above comes from the perspective of wanting to make things better so more people can enjoy it.
Thank you very much for telling me more reasons to stay away from Warframe, this also does give ground to the critique that DE's best and only greatest trait is building hype.
The big problem with crowd control is it used to be a good strategy but the requirements to sustain some gamemodes in terms of kills per minute are so high that it's impossible to effectively play them without boosting loot or area of effect
I'm pretty sure this has been said before, but I feel like a good way to make crowd control more viable would be to make overshields take a percentage of damage instead of being immune outright. That way, players who don't have many options early game (Mag) have a way of dealing with eximus, and CC frames would have more viability in higher level missions.
I had a problem with the new eximus units from day one, partially because it brought my attempts to grind through Steel Path to a screeching halt. I love cc frames and I just straight up can't use them anymore since most of them are incredibly squishy and have absolutely no guard against things getting past their cc. I also get to the point where I actually cannot tell what is going on because I got knocked into a parasitic eximus circle and there's 7 eximi all around me. Literally just a blur of color.
Dude I haven't even watched yet but I really want someone to address the fact that eximus SHOULDN'T I repeat SHOULDN'T be able to beat limbo rift.
Oh absolutely they should in fact can we extend the immunity to everything else as well so trolls stop bringing limbo
No. You see Eximus units are a special soldier able to use techniques that are very close to what the void plane is. The rift is just a weaker void ability. It's actually the weakest form of void ability amongst others like Nova, Mirage or Xaku.
I'm sure Eximus units have gotten hold of some Entrati technology to be able to perform these amazing feats of power.
You are not the gods of war you thought you were. You've fallen from grace with Eximus powers all up in your face.
Yeah, sitting in a rift is NOT a CC, IN FUCKING Fact.
@@ShugoAWay can we make it so allies cant leave the rift
@@biomechanicalcyber-jesus7573 Then Limbo expects us to CC for him while he's dancing.
I dislike any dancing Limbos out there. That's so out of character.
i never understood the idea of offering the player options to delay threats with cc, then create literal threats to said options. like I understand why bosses have cc immunity, but outside of that, some of the enemies have cc resistance for no explainable reason.
Warframe on the ps4 is very pleasant at 15 fps with 5 quadrillion particles on screen
Ah, so that explains how my Mag went from dumpster tier to dumpstered tier.
D.E needs a better difficulty system then adding a 1 to the front of an enemy's base level
My solution to overguard is that it would be immune to soft CC like electric procs, fire status panic, radiation confusion, but only resistant to hard CC sush as reduced duration or something.
DE could turn overguard into a CC resistance akin to the disruptor aura, instead of a flat out immunity.
That inaros bit made me laugh pretty hard. I really needed that. Love your vids!
Okay so maybe, what if there was a system that made eximus get knocked down and slowed by like 90% until they got back up on each CC ability, with diminishing returns on each time the same ability was used/procced its CC on them? I don't know, balancing mass CC is actually kinda hard but it would be better than what we have now. Not that DE's going to even think of that anyway.
I think one of the things that has always bugged me was Nekro's soul punch. The move doesn't actually blow back the enemies behind it. I've always wondered why he even had it ever since he was first released, or why DE never made it worth using.
The only enemy it has use on is thrax, I e heard it executes them at the appropriate threshold and skips the ethereal phase entirely
Y'know..
i came back to play this.. thing, when the angel of zariman got released, just to see the new stuff, at the begining i was actually enjoying myself somehow, yea the rep farm for literal house items was meh but i had actual fun with the quest and exploring the Zariman.
Then i got to meet the Child of DE "Solution for people saying the game is to easy" aka Eximus
at first was midly annoying, shurgged it off and went on, then i tried to had a chill Mot Steel path with some friends who were also returning to the game.
Yeah, we spent a Long time complaning to each other about how unfun that was and we Uninstall that thing
And go play an actual fun game and now a days Warframe is the low joke that we keep making fun whenever something or a company is garbage.
Overall a good trade in my opinion
That last pill to swallow hurts the most, smh 😔
Jokes aside, I do wish CC was good again. And that most of the arsenal (with the exception of starter weapons obviously) is useable.
People who says cc still works have never encountered dozen of eximus blasting the shit out our face with particle effects.
Band aid fix definitely needs to happen. Either cap overguard scaling or have diminishing effectiveness. Or heck just have it be half as effective.
I used to play nyx, Vauban and limbo occasionally now it's such a hard sell for me to use them. Not even status effects work on them except cold iirc.
But tbf the eximus rework only becomes stupid in endurance. I think
What i really hate about DE is that they have great ideas that sound incredibly fun, but the moment they have to integrate them into the game they shit the bed slip on said discharge fall down the next staircase and break the toy they promised the players into a thousand little pieces.
Yeah, it sucks how some frames have been hit hard by all the CC denial.
This is the only issue I have with the new eximus units, and as a Baruuk main they don't affect me, but I would like to see all frames being used.
Max range mag is now my go to cc frame, that's low we have fallen
Well, Steve ain't touching the particle engines anymore.
The monkey paw finger curled.
I’ve been listening to a lot of Ink Spots lately.
Hearing them here was a surprise.
The Eximus change is one of the biggest indicators that DE has absolutely no direction for this game.
Sabuuchi: "Steve, i beg you, stop touching the particle engines"
Steve: *That's it, i'm outa here*
As a Vauban, Nyx, and general support frame fan this hurts. I love my Mesa Prime and Valkyr Prime but I don't what that to be the only frames I can play for anything above the mid game. It's frustrating watching so many powers just hit like like marshmallows tossed underhand using a soggy noodle. SO many frames and weapons get left behind that other than mastery and just collecting , there is almost no reason to have them ((other than just messing around in lower level missions, which can still be fun.))
CC was rarely used on anything under level 100 or some super hard enemies, that are rare. I haven't played WF for a very long time, but if you wanted to nuke areas and kill everyone, there were frames (Nova...) that when properly augmented had abilities that could do so. Also weapons like Tonkor (3+ forma). But I haven't got a clue what it's like now. It got bad for me when they nerfed Syndicate rewards and removed some leveling maps while adding the stupid Controller (Operator) that totally broke the narrative of the game for me.
Imagine if you were a returning player who miss warframe in pass two year and seeking through the internet to find out if that's any way to play warframe without big explosion and finally found the answer of all questions "explosion is the only way"
I find it really funny, I’m a very depressing way, that the only way to make single target weapons viable is things like concealed explosives…making them aoe weapons…
I like how overguard blocks cc but no nuke abilities
That clip at the end destroyed my sides. Good vid as always mate.
Wish granted, Steve will stop touching the particle system
I would say I'm one of those fortunate few that enjoys Baruuk (wave-hand 4 is great damage for hordes AND for Eximus units, plus his many ways of stacking DR or disabling non-Eximus mooks), but I wouldn't want that at the expense of never getting to play something like Vauban and realistically never taking them to higher-level content due to a high reliance on CC powers (though Booben at least has his 1 Augment and the spike-launching portion of his 2, so he can manage some damage; his 3 is flashy but mediocre compared to the aforementioned powers).
I play Warframe mostly for the abilities of the titular part of gear, even if the guns/melees are great as well. Warframes can/should be fine to specialize in theme or role, lending themselves to prefered styles of play; but they should also be able to do their tricks and powers in a mission with some large degree of effectiveness in those missions they're intended for (like Ivara for stealth missions, or Nidus for survival).
CC was left behind by the sheer amount of power creep they keep giving to players.
Haven't played warframe in a few years and it's good to see that it's still suffering from the same issues of power creep, scope creep, increasing visual clutter, and general unwillingness to go back and polish/revise existing systems and content that I noticed all those years ago.
Their main mistake is in the very beginning of making the game - they made players too strong and enemies too dumb, and our power keeps growing with the new builds and weapons, while the only way for enemies to be stronger is by not letting us use pretty much anything. And from my point of view you can't even fix this issue. You would have to completely remove EVERY AoE nuke ability, crowd control, weapon, reduce enemy density but increase their hp and cap their level at some point when it never scales higher, get rid of infinite missions scaling and instead increase the rewards of such, or remove them for good, give enemies better A.I. so they can dodge our bullets, hide behind the walls and shoot, become invisible, run away, whatever. Pretty much turn Warframe into Destiny where enemies' lives matter.
That is impossible, it would be easier to delete a game at this point. Another approach they can take is nearly the same, except they should make some bosses with no immunity stages but instead with more interesting mechanics which will favor single target weapons. Make single target meta, reduce enemies spawnrate, make them level 9999 if needed since our builds are so good, but keep bosses' health optimal enough. There should be a reason for us to run boss missions and that is not for acquiring Warframes, make it more rewarding. I dunno I can't even really think of any solution, but I'd love to see all enemies start with level cap at least, that's gonna make the game somewhat challenging.
DE: "We're going to making it easier than ever to strip enemy armor!"
Players: "Oh wow! We get better options to make enemies not take five hours to get through their high defenses!"
DE: "Yes, except for eximus units, which we're making them 50 times more common, and they have a shield which resists everything but those crappy voids amps, and block any of your powers that can actually make enemies easier to deal with."
Me: "...what..."
Haven't played warframe for like 2 years now, but I'll always show up for a Sabuushi video
There's a reason why I only used the Acceltra for mastery fodder, it was simply too powerful. It was the meta when Gauss was released and everyone flocked to get their hands on it, I didn't touch it until I was grinding out weapons and frames increase my mastery rank and once it was maxed out it, went right into the bin. I don't have anything against aoe weapons, my favorite weapons are the Zarr and the Corinth and the reason why enjoyed using them is because it gave me more of a challenge, instead of blitzing through a hoard of enemies I would have to deal with them in separate groups. I don't enjoy having to run with the meta just to have fun, it takes the fun out the game and causes it to be far to grindy.
As a vauban main, it kills me when i cant fucking yeet a eximus
well you dont gotta worry about steve anymore lol
I know im a bit late to the party, but i have an idea for Overguard!
- eximus make themselves vulnerable when they use their channeled attack, i.e. a Blitz's line of explosions. During said attack, they either lose their overguard or simply the CC-immunity part of it, allowing you to bait eximus into attacks and capitalize with a well timed ability cast, such as Banish. This would incentivize you to actually, well, think in moment-to-moment combat (crazy idea) when an eximus shows up. This would obviously have to be individually tuned based on the eximus type (such as toxic eximus, which dont really have a specific attack, just a damaging aura), but i think it would be a good start to tuning their defensive power.
*also, blocking an enemy's melee should ALWAYS allow you to parry imo. I shouldnt need a mod slot for something that most players probably have never heard of.
Me, as an hitscan weapons enthusiastic (Amprex, Synapse and Gammacor) (fuck Kuva Nukor) feel like im able to say: the funnier weapons are sometimes the bad ones.
I recall one of the first sorties I completed with a friend, he took Inaros and I umbra. We feared the bursa enough so he just devoured it for years and let me complete the mission
Good old days almost every weapon and frame were OP and everyone use what you want
the way i see it overhealth on eximus would be a PERFECT opportunity to give cc frames a good role in the game.
hear me out:
1. Overhealth doesnt take damage from non-single target dps abilitys
2. direct damage from weapons ignore overhealth and damages health directly, even if they still have overhealth
3. cc can still control enemys that have overhealth
this does multiple things:
first, dps actually has a gap now
second, all dps frames have some secondary means of survive besides just killing everything, be it cc, tanking, healing or something else, unlike cc frames that die without cc
third, single target weapons get a little indirect buff, same as single target damage abilitys, finally giving you a reason to use those two
fourth, cc actually has a use, by taking care of those enemys that dont get deleted by dps abilitys
tl:dr
overhealth blocks dps abilitys, but not direct damage and cc
3:16 reminds me of the pain of heavy reliance of my allies from being outscaled in a Survival mission as I die from a two shot.
Now get ready for reverse eximus units. Who are immune to damage for a certain amount of time, the only way to stop them is CC/j
They really killed half of the frame roaster usability to make the game "difficult" lmaoo
"Steve! Stop touching the Particle engines!" I'm dead.
Since this update came, my Nyx has been crying in a corner and gathering dust... she was my most used frame.
Haven't really touched the game since Tonkor and EV Trinity Prime were meta, and looking at this doen't really make me wanna go back in [also because progression changes completly scrambled my map and I refuse to reunlock everything]
Operator beams should pop overshields om one hit.
They should just do what the Borderlands series does. It has dedicated CC characters, but very few enemies are immune to CC. Instead Borderlands spawns stronger tankier versions of enemies called "badass" units. They can be CC'd but they are priority targets. One alone can body you while it takes multiple trash units to even make you Flinch. They earn the title of "badass"
Called it when they announced the changes to Eximus units. I was right, so I take a break and play other games now.
Happiness
Sadness
Salad man
I hope he touches the particle engine more to the point where not even I, nor my teammates, are able to see should I activate 1 ability
I mean just disable the GPU particles and not cry like you're a crippled veteran.
Why is it so hard to let CC be part of the game. If Scott hates how we play. Them give us better way to play the game.
Maybe he should actually play the game and see why people play the way they do. Instead of constantly trying to kill whatever is useful.
@@DarkBladeNemo fair argument
@@DarkBladeNemo Keep dreaming.
There is one small niche left for CC. At least with Inaro's 3 (I don't know if this works the same with other abilities), the enemies incapicated do not count to capturing in interception or crate capturing.
2 years later, and we're still nowhere closer to a better balance (well, other than getting the old guard out)
DE: NO! Stop using AOE
Also DE: So, here's a gamemode where you have to defend a point whilst enemies keep coming at you in ever increasing numbers, trying to kill you and/or the thing you're meant to protect.
Why the fuck are there so many defense style missions? Mobile defense, defense, hijack, disruption, excavation, infested salvage, those new zariman missions, the earth sabotage. I'm sure that I'm missing some.
I love the eximus rework but I hate what it did to the meta. Strong frames (tanks) are still strong, struggling frames (copi cough cough, I mean gloom frames) are struggling even more.
still funny to me how one of their big things with overshield was to make you use operator more (implying operator would be most efficient to remove overshield) but because they did it wrong and unless you use madurai (which still isnt as good) its still better to just shoot them with guns and never use operator for it.
Hydroid is my SON and I would die for him, but when they released his deluxe skin it felt like an insult because I can't use him anymore. I still feel like the whole thing about DE removing how his stuff stacked with khora and nekros and then putting it back is why they nerfed CC. It didn't look good to remove the use for them, so nerf CC so no one will play them. Ignoring the fact that some people played them because they were actually fun for them.
ever since i forma’d my kuva zarr i’ve never had a reason to take it off
Man, I love Nyx. I'm one of the minority that likes Nyx and somehow they want to drop those numbers even further and people start flocking back to the meta frames. Don't get me wrong, I still play Nyx a lot but what is Nyx and the rest of the CC frames going to do in an Eximus Stronghold mission?
I feel the particle engine part sooo much. I've had to use Aoe weapons because i literally cannot see the enemy through the blinding supernova of ability graphics.
The funny Sabuuchi
DE doesn't have a test team, If they had they would see how terrible the balance is.
And at this point the game is in a dire need of an FFXIV: A Realm Reborn kind of treatment.
4:53 Ah yes, I too enjoy multiplying the amount of pain I put on to enemies and then hitting my eyes with it.
In my opinion, the best way to change Overguard is to make it resist ability damage and ability buffs to damage, but not crowd control. IE, if a Mesa locks onto an Eximus with Peacemaker, they can get hit with maybe 4x as many shots without their Overguard breaking. Or Rhino's Roar doesn't effect damage dealt to Overguard. It gives a use for CC again while also serving as a cap for the DPS meta.