Hashirama Was Not Supposed to be The God of Shinobi
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2024
- Hashirama Senju, the First Hokage and founder of the Leaf Village, was considered the God of Shinobi in the Naruto story. The strongest ninja ever up until when Obito absorbed the 10 Tails in the Naruto War Arc. However, that wasn't always the case. Hashirama being that powerful was a retcon in the Naruto series.
In Naruto part 1, Hashirama's Edo Tensei wasn't nearly as powerful as he would eventually be, and in that time the Edo Tensei was considered to be as powerful as Hashirama's alive version. Also, Kakuzu mentioned that he fought Hashirama in the past, and we all know that if they fought for real with the Hashirama we saw fight in the Madara vs Hashirama fight in the Valley of the End, Kakuzu would have been destroyed.
Minato was the strongest ninja in Naruto part 1 and this was changed to Hashirama throughout the story. Let's determined when that happened and if it was a good idea for the narrative.
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LIKE THE VIDEO DAMMIT
I will if You Drop The REWRITE!!!😡
Yes sir captain, don't scentence us to the speed line sweat shop (SLSS, TradeMark)
@@The-One-Eyed-Grim-Reaper What's wrong with the rewrite?
No!
@@markjangusI thought he meant like, post a video
Someone once said that Kakuzu threw a kunai in Hashirama's direction and then ran away telling everyone that he fought him lmao
Pretty much
@@DygoKnight😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 why I'm picturing this in my mind?
After the whole redcon, I wouldn't laugh about it anymore and would say damn
impressive that Kakuzu survived as a non-godlike being but as a normal ninja^^
Nah he tried to stole Hashirama heart, but different hashirama and tell people that he fought Hashirama.
Being since he has the ability to resurrect using stolen hearts I figured he probably got “killed” by hashirama and played dead.
Imagine being so powerful that your cells were used by pretty much every main villain in the story. Orochimaru, Danzo, Madara, Obito... They all used it.
“Everyone is on Hashi cells“ - Juan Diaz probably
@lisboah That always annoyed me about those cells. Being so prevalent despite being dead for so long. And what they could do? The better question is what couldn’t they do? It’s as bad as Vibranium in the MCU.
@@Avarn388 So true. Hashirama's Cells can help you replenish chackra, regenerate your wounds including limbs, increase your chackra reserves and stamina, increase your physical strength, make you gain Wood Style, help you gain the Rinnegan if you are an Uchiha...
@@lisboahit doesn’t help regrow limbs and it doesn’t always give you woodstyle
Isn’t it cause his cells have the “gift of life”, which is why he has that ability? It’s like a regen factor, which makes sense that it would apply to Chakra too? Deep forest emergence inside of the cells like they have the nutrients in them for all that life so it makes sense they have so much potential for growth
Among many other big changes, Naruto had a philosophical change. At first, the core idea was that the newer generations surpassed the previous ones. The 4th Hokage was stronger than the 3rd, who was considered stronger than the 2nd and the 1st. Even Orochimaru was stronger than the 3rd, and Jiraya/Tsunade were on par with him. Itachi was stronger than his whole clan and Sasuke was growing up to surpass Itachi as well.
The problem is that at some point the author decided that Naruto/Sasuke were meant to be reincarnations in a cycle, and the previous life chosen were Hashirama and Madara, creating this situation where in the history of the shinobi world you have these spikes of two really powerful dudes followed by a low period where everyone is relatively equally thrash.
I agree and this is still problematic because in boruto they’ve basically gone back to this whole the new generation is supposed to be stronger/surpass the former.
There are some misconceptions with that.
Doesn't it make Naruto and Sasuke seem more hopeless? Asura and Indra failed, in-fact there were 100s of other Reincarnates that failed, and the only noticeable ones we see in the story are Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama, and Madara.
In-fact the closest we have seen was Hashirama and Sasuke. But thanks to Naruto and Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara were able to make up with Hashirama using Talk-No-Jutsu on Madara.
Naruto had advantages and talent sure... but so did the others. Itachi, Nagato, Madara, Obito, Sasuke but they all failed. Naruto success was due to his teachers, his own trust in his friends, and his ability to resolve conflict, or his own personal resolve.
Destiny? Naruto and Sasuke were DESTINED to kill each other, either one or both of them would die. But thanks to Naruto's and Sasuke's own resolve they broke that destiny, they found their own path.
In-fact being the Reincarnate Of Asura and Indra literally gave them jackshit. Their personalities, chakra natures, emotions were all natural.
I really prefer New Generation stronger, tho I would prefer a lot of BS over reincarnation
@@Kyonari Of the possibly hundreds to thousands of reincarnates, the only notable ones have been Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama, and Madara.
And I already put the reasons in my comment above why it is fine.
naruto did undergo a philosophical change, shifting from the idea of newer generations surpassing the previous ones to the concept of reincarnations and cycles with Hashirama and Madara. It created a pattern of powerful individuals followed by a relatively weaker period in the shinobi world's history.
There was a very clear theme in part 1 of naruto of surpassing your predecessors and that was supposed to be shown through the Orochimaru and Hiruzen battle. Hiruzen had surpassed his mentors to the point of being able to take them and Orochimaru on at the same time even in his old age but Minato would have smoked him because Minato had surpassed him. Naruto's whole goal was to be greater than all of them. That was completely thrown away when we get to the war arc and Hashirama and Madara even in base are just magically stronger than literally everyone not named Naruto and Sasuke and it's sad. Minato in my eyes will always be the goat shinobi because that's what he was established as in kishimotos original story. Also Hashirama cells are the worst plot point of the entire series even worse than Kaguya and the otsutski.
Hashirama Cells are goated, they like flex tape as they cover up all plotholes.
Obito not going blind cuz of MS usage? Hashirama Cells
Shisui's Kotoamatsukami cooldown? Hashirama Cells
Sasuke gets healed with Hashirama's Cells and his chakra
Being worse that Otsutuskis and Kaguya is a braindead take.
And what was wrong with Hashirama and Madara being stronger exactly?
@@rohanthomas6629id guess that what feels bad is that in part 1 they were supposed to be weaker than their sucessors, because the new generation become stronger than the previous ones and blah blah blah.
Then surprise, these two were functionally gods that can beat the shit out of what, 99% of the cast?
@@enzogomez5686I feel like Kishimoto could've fixed that by having the Prime Hiruzen memes be real, ngl. Like, he *actually* mastered all the jutsu of the leaf and shit, but couldn't use them all in his old age or smthn.
the theme of surpassing one's predecessors was indeed prevalent in Part 1 of Naruto, with characters like Hiruzen and Minato showcasing their growth. However, it can be disappointing when later arcs introduce characters like Hashirama and Madara who seem magically stronger. The use of Hashirama's cells as a plot point is a matter of personal opinion, but it's understandable that it may not resonate with everyone.
@@Suto_KoQuickly reminder that this theme was not only present in the part 1.
When Kakuzu says he fought Hashirama, this serves to further strenghen this theme because Kakashi also tells him the next generation will always surpace the previous.
The scaling in late naruto is waaaay off from kishimotos original intention. I mean just look at zabuza. He was an S-rank threat in the bingo-book, but he is fodder compared to the akatsuki (and he is one of my fave characters). I think the hiruzen/orochimaru fight was supposed to demonstrate some of the top-strength achievable in the verse. And while minato or hashirama may have been stronger than hiruzen, I don’t think kishimoto ever intended for them to be the near-god level that they became.
Definitely would of preferred Naruto to stay as a weaker verse it made the fights so much more interesting
it well boring and the viilans need to be strong like Madera who was being built ever since part one what ruined @@Darj_sip naruto is kagua which is exist to set up for boruto look at naruto top battle most of them comes form part two
Everyone knows the real reason Hiruzen didn't want Minato brought back wasn't because Minato was the strongest. It was clearly because he didn't want him to see the squalor he left Naruto to grow up in.
Boi’s bout to get his ass beat
I imagine kakazu was one of the people in an entire battalion that tried to jump hashirama and all collectively got one shot by a tree branch hashirama wasn’t even paying attention to them
Yeah Hashimoto (and other shounen) had a much more grounded setting and style originally. Power creep is a very real thing
I like how at a meta level, Hashirama grew in power because Madara aslo grew in power in Kishimoto's mind. Takes me back to Naruto needing to get stronger because Sasuke was getting stronger aswell.
Just like real
Something I want to bring up is that Kishimoto set up a reason for Madara to be stronger than he was when he was alive with him also having Hashirama's power as well with his cell but probably realizing that he needed someone to stop Madara for a while just made Hashirama even stronger since he's still relative if not stronger than that Madara still.
My guy while in a weakened state was still stronger than the guy who was his rival who also had some of his own power and only got overpowered once Madara had 2-3 more power ups
Just because Madara had Hashirama cells does not mean he was stronger than when he was at valley of the end. In Valley he had the nine tails which he doesn't have when he is edo. In fact, since their fight as edos was in background and mostly ignored he probably was weaker than when he was at valley. The revive is what tipped the scale but if Hashi was revived as well, he would have defeated Madara. Only Jubidara could defeat an alive Hashi.
To be fair, Madara didn't have his Rinnegan in the battle at the valley of the end against Hashirama yet. I think that's the biggest buff he could have gotten.
@@i8uAllananas Without Nine tails Rinnegan Madara would lose against Hashirama. But giving him both Rinnegan and a tailed beast to support him he would beat Hashi. Thats basically turning him into his Jubidara form which I mentioned would defeat Hashi.
Madara was not all that strong originally. He nearly died from being stabbed one time, used hashirama cells to replace half his body, which caused him to awaken new eye powers that he could never accomplish alone.
hashirama's immense power, combined with the added boost of his cells being used by multiple villains, certainly made him a formidable force. It's impressive how he remained strong even in a weakened state compared to Madara, who had multiple power-ups.
The OVA fight is so cool as well like Hasirama has this big ass scroll specifically just to summon the whole leaf village weapon arsenal!!! ... pretty sick 👌
This is my headcannon of what was the reason for this retcon, Hiruzen was supposed to be the God of shinibi but the power creep got so crazy that it was imposible to justify Hiruzen having that title cuz we saw how weak was he, it’s was easier just to say no the real god of Shinobi was the first he was madara’s rival, the “true” final villain.
Hiruzen was also old though. Orichimaru even said that if Hiruzen was just 10 years younger, the fight would have gone very differently.
The only issue with that is it was never stated that the edo reincarnations were actually weaker until much much later in the series and was a retcon in itself. So even old man Hiruzen scaled above the first and second hokage at relatively full strength because he was able to seal both of them without really getting beat up too bad.
@@theking8347 This is also a retcon too to be honest.
interesting headcanon, The power creep in Naruto did become quite significant, and it's understandable that it might be challenging to justify Hiruzen as the "God of Shinobi" given his perceived weakness. The decision to attribute that title to the first Hokage, who was Madara's rival, could be seen as a way to align with the evolving power dynamics in the story.
Facts
Isn't it kind of a plothole that Orochimaru even tried to summon Minato in that fight? Surely he would have at least looked inside the coffin to make sure that the jutsu worked before using it in battle, he had to have known it was empty. Was he just trying to play mind games with Hiruzen?
Orochimaru didnt know Reaper Death Seal back then
I'm just gonna say, before hashirama was brought back the 2nd time, the Impression I had on him was always "how the hell did this guy beat Madara" since we had more glimpses of Madara when the story was going on weekly
That just tells u how weak he felt before we reached the 2nd Edo tensei part of the story
Y’all glazing so hard
Hashirama a real chad, left enough cells around so all the homies could get on a cycle💪
Considering how powerful Kishimoto made both Madara and Kurama he HAD to make Hashirama stronger otherwise his story would fail terribly. The Hashirama retcon, even the Senju retcon was a must.
At this point "God of shinobi" is a title several ninja have given for their great battle feats. It doesn't belong to one specific person.
It was hiruzen who was the gos of shinobi
No he didn’t need to make Hashirama that strong imo. He could’ve made it to where hashirama and Tobirama teamed up against madara with them barely beating him. Which falls into the theme of the Ashura incarnate not being as strong as Indra, but finding strength in his connection with others. Instead Hashirama is just made super powerful for no real reason. Even Ashura was shown to be a late bloomer, same with Naruto. Hashirama is the only one who was a prodigy out of the gate.
@@Friendly_G Or Minato.
@@azureascendant994 nah, just Hiruzen
@@infiniteimprovementStop it, Hashirama always beat Madara, changing that would have been bullshit. Madara fanboys need to stop.
The Uchiha wank was the beginning of this mess. It started with Itachi.
To resolve this discrepancy, Kishimoto could have argued that Hashirama's battle was so harsh that it drastically weakened him, for the rest of his life.
Orochimaru's first Edo Tensei was imperfect, reviving as Hashirama was at his point of death - weakened. Hiruzen could have meant that Hashirama was just as strong as he used to be - when he died.
However, Orochimaru's second Edo Tensei (the reaper one) could have brought the Hokage back at their primes, hence Hashirama's massive power boost.
Don't u think another reason for the third coffin did not rise was beacuse minato sealed some of his charka inside naruto dus Edo Tensei did not work coz a piece of his soul was in naruto
I think it's because Hiruzen's age made him equivalently weak compared to his prime as the imperfect edo tensei made the Senju. I think it can be explained in that Hashirama had more raw power, as evidenced by his taijutsu knocking Hiruzen around and his mokuton restraining him until Enma intervened, but Hiruzen is smarter and knows a wider array of jutsu making him more balanced (also displayed in the fight with him using unconventional methods). Hiruzen is like a balance between crafty but lazy Tobirama and strong but goofy Hashirama.
Orochimaru's first Kage edo tenseis used implanted kunai which gave him more control. The revivals in the war arc didn't have those kunai.
cope lowIQ@@barccy
the second endo tensei was still nerfed Kabotu was the only one to perfect the edo tensei jutsu which also led to Madara just breaking it as he had more of his power .
Kishimoto could have explained that Hashirama's intense battle weakened him for the rest of his life, and Orochimaru's imperfect Edo Tensei revived him at that weakened state. Orochimaru's second Edo Tensei could have then brought him back at his prime, giving him a massive power boost.
Minato could teleport really well. Even in his weakened state a teleporter could give you a hard time.
Unless you have a way better reaction time than your opponent it doesn't matter how fast you can teleport if your opponent can easily react to it.
@@Kyonari teleport is instant dingus. If I teleport behind you the only thing your reacting to is my kunai in your back.
true, Minato's teleportation abilities made him a formidable opponent, even in a weakened state.
doesn't matter if you can teleport if I can react faster to you teleporting then you can to your own teleportation then I have an advantage always remember just cuz someone can teleport it doesn't mean he can't be hit or out speed teleportation isn't speed and simply based on your reaction time and in an anime where reaction time can be a hundred of times faster than light thinking teleportation alone wins is stupid.@@youngspooks
Nah Minato's body flicker was on part with Ay's lightning cloak with his flying raijin and reaction time he was hailed as the fastest shinobi plus his sealing was on Uzumaki lvl
That on top of being the smartest character in Naruto being able to figure out how kamui works and how to counter it withing a few minutes is what makes him such a strong shinobi
It was stated that Hiruzen has gotten weaker due to age. Maybe the “they’re strong as ever” statement was in comparison to his current self. Hashirama and Tobirama maybe weak but it’s still more than enough to take on an older Hiruzen hence why he’s struggling.
I could see prime Hiruzen beating Tobirama but not Hashirama.
@@justinarzola4584 perhaps but what we saw is Prime Tobirama vs a old man🤣
We can only imagine for now
You're smoking crack if you think the man who created some of the most forbidden/jutsus in shinobi history, who could generate a small-medium bodies of water from thin air, would be defeated by the likes of Hiruzen. Y'all be trying to disrespect Tobirama so much it's quite hilariously stupid smh. @@justinarzola4584
Hashirama basically became the Deus ex machina for kishimoto every time he needed someone to have a fairly big power up that wasn't tied to aliens.
I don't think that hashirama would want to use his full power against someone like kakuzu especially not before he got his forbidden technique, he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would kill someone rather than letting them live and have a chance at a better tomorrow, I mean he liturally made peace with an enemy clan that they had been at war with sinse asura and indras fight pretty much, the uchiha had even killed his brother and likely many of his friends as well, and yet he made paece. So why would he kill an easily incapacitated man from the hidden waterfall, when he could stop him and send him home without killing him
Maybe I've been wrong about this but I always took Kakuzus statements were more explaining his insanely vast combat experience rather than conventional strength.
@@johnfulcher8448 Well if we say that Kakuzu has a lot of experience and Hashirama isn't trying to kill him, do you not then think that it could have been a fight that Kakuzu feels like bragging about even though he lost (also assuming that Kakuzu doesn't rly know the full scope of Hashiramas power wich he clearly didn't cuz if anyone in the hidden waterfall rly knew they wouldn't have sent Kakuzu)
This actually makes sense, hell, the guy isn't even taking madara seriously until half of their fight where he used his sage mode and the thousand arm Buddha. And that's supposed to be someone with equal strength to him, let alone some random guy sent to kill him.
hashirama was indeed known for his desire for peace and his willingness to find non-lethal solutions. It's possible that he would have chosen to incapacitate someone like Kakuzu rather than kill him, given his compassionate nature and efforts to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.
A good retcon could be that orochimaru found a hashimamaru body double meant to hide hashimaru from being harvested for cells
@DygoKnight not sure if you did a video on it or not but if not could you please explain the one thing that this series really confused me on? In the first arc of Naruto Kakashi says that Sasuke has a Kekeigenkai just like Haku, and that his was the Sharingan, BUT in Shippuden blood line traits like Sharingan, Byakugan, and Rennigan were all made into god teir abilities, and others like shadow possession and expansion jutsu etc, were relegated to family lines but could be learned by others where as Kekei genkai was said to be exactly what Haku had, two elements fused into a new element. Was this also a retcon or was there something I missed?
Great timing for this vid, because I just started watching One Piece, and with Shanks, I couldn't help but keep thinking "He's introduced like Iruka, but turns out he's Hashirama!" with him being a mentor figure from the past who lets himself be bullied without defending himself, causing Luffy to think him a coward, but got his arm bitten off by a sea serpent to save Luffy's life, teaching him a moral lesson. Luffy in the present then proceeds to knock out the serpent at the end of that first chapter, showing how much he's grown and giving the sense that right from the start the protagonist already may have surpassed his moral mentor figure whose greatness comes from their kindness to the protagonist, not their combat power.
...except then you later find out Shanks is so powerful that even over a thousand episodes later, he's still one of the strongest characters in the series. I immediately thought of how he's like the Hashirama instead, it's great timing to also be reminded of how much Hashirama himself was retconned!
It's totally different. I won't spoil you, but I can tell you that Shanks wasn't a "legendary figure" back then. He was strong, but only reached legendary status a few years before the series started.
Also one of Luffy's main goal is to surpass Shanks and his crew (look at the hat-giving scene). You don't give that kind of goal to the main character and have him achieve it literally in the first chapter.
yeah, the introduction of characters like Shanks in One Piece can create a similar dynamic to Hashirama in Naruto, where they initially appear as mentor figures but are later revealed to be incredibly powerful. It's interesting how these characters can undergo retcons that change our perception of their strength.
it's not really the same , the shanks we know from luffy as a kid and the shanks we know at the start of luffy's journey are waaaaaay different strenght and reputation wise ine the op world
@@Suto_Ko Not the same. Hashirama was dead. A dead man can't become stronger, which is why it's a retcon. Shanks is alive and 10 whole years have passed. He is obviously stronger than back then.
he's alive and thriving, so it's no surprise that Shanks has become stronger over the past 10 years.@@jinkun2629
Madara and izuna with MS were considered to be equal. Tobirama killed izuna.
3rd and 4th hokage were considered to be stronger than 1&2.
Hashirama's special status was based on being a very strong ninja and having wood release, which was demonstrated to be able to control tailed beasts, and the was also snapped like twigs by the 3rd hokage.
Shippuden completely ruined Naruto shortly after the akatsuki battles.
Little bit wouldn’t say ruined but definitely fucked up a lot that was established in part 1 but I bet it was the editors
interesting observations, The power dynamics and character development in Naruto can be complex and subjective. Shippuden did introduce some changes that may have affected the perception of the series for some fans.
No. Izuna >>> minato >>> jiraya >> all uzumaki
Haven't you already done this video but about Minato instead?
I've done several videos about retcons
There's a lot of bad retcons in this show, lol
If Shippuden hashirama was in the chunin exam fight, Orochimaru and the sand would've stomped the leaf
@@darkest_thief nah tbh
@@ahmadkaienorochimaru himself said if hashirama were in full power he can break reanimation jutsu control
I like your videos a lot. Not only do you make great points on interesting topics, but the cadence with which you speak is really engaging and entertaining. I am really curious your accent though... Can't figure it out. It is very subtle.
I don't see it that way, for me, Redcon is when we see the statues of Hashirama and Mara for the first time, there I do think that Kishimoto modifies the idea about Hashirama. In the fight against Sarutobi, there is more talk about nostalgia and measuring his opponents, for example Sarutobi knows that Hashirama and Tobirama are ninjas of the water element, he still used fire Jutsu, why does he do that? It's easy, Sarutobi didn't know how strong they had been revived, what's more, Orochimaru places a seal on them to control them. The Third coffin, is not how you make it seem, because Sarutobi did not know what was in the coffins, he simply focuses on the third, because he does not want another one to be revived and lose more numerical advantage.
On the other hand, when we see the valley of the end, we have a clearer idea of what those two were, how powerful must they have been for those statues to be made? Why are they so legendary? Not even the fourth Hokage had given such an impression, plus it was precisely in the Naruto vs. Sasuke fight that we saw the statues for the first time, also Sasuke in Madara's statue, and Naruto in Hashirama's.
Another factor to keep in mind is that Kishimoto was clear that Naruto and Sasuke were going to have a final fight and that Naruto would control the power of the Kyubi, only starting from the first chapter that the Kyubi is so powerful, the idea of is already clear As the power scale was going to be in the future, it was simply developed, but not in the very correct way, but in general, for me it was good and I liked the change.
Minato was perhaps so highly valued back then because what he did was more up-to-date information, he is very contemporary with the time, Hashirama and Tobirama had been dead for many decades, they are no longer well in people's memories. Especially if what they say about Hashirama seems straight out of fantasy.
I think Kishimoto had some problem with planing out the end after the Invasion of Pain Arc. That said, I still love the series. "not as good as it could have been and a bit unplanned" doesn't mean 'not good"
I think the best indication of Hashirama's intial strength is the original Ultimate Ninja games, those games tended to make the character's ultimate jutsu's pretty over the top spectacle wise, and Hashirama's ultimate jutsu? Making a VERY big tree and setting it on fire. No sage mode. No wood golems or wood dragons etc.
Bro the water drill technique that Tobirama uses in I think the first ultimate ninja game is so sick. I really wish that would've been an actual animated or drawn jutsu.
true, the portrayal of Hashirama's strength in the original Ultimate Ninja games might not have fully captured the extent of his abilities, as his ultimate jutsu was relatively simpler compared to the more elaborate techniques seen later in the series.
Imagine trying to live in the hidden leaf as a lumberjack. Your family hasn't been around for long becouase of the first hokage, but now you can actually sell the trees you chop down and you are doing well for yourself. Until one day, this guy comes and destroys the whole village, ofc you aren't aware of whats going on cuz you likely live a mile or so outside the city, or at the very least at the edge of the city, so the when you find out you are of course shocked by the great damage, but in the end everyone was revived anyway, so this is rly just a big buissnes oppertunity for you, so you get to chopping wood and you eventualy drag all your wood to town, only to discover that yamato has woodstyle so they've already started working on rebuilding and you have just watsed many hours on getting wood to rebuild the city, all for nothing, and sure they would likely still use the wood, but they aren't going to buy it, after all yamato can provide it for free, and come to think of it, what would stop people from just asking yamato for some wood, when he could easily just make it for them for free or certainly for much cheaper then what he could offer, and you now have to either get a new job or move to another village
🍜🌌😂😂😂 You ROCK! 🤓💥
that would indeed be a challenging situation for a lumberjack in the Hidden Leaf. The revival of the village and Yamato's wood-style abilities could potentially impact the demand and value of the wood you have gathered. It may require finding a new job or exploring opportunities in other villages.
Honestly got tired of the retcons and contradictions in later shippuden
The power creep was ridiculous towards the end of shippuden.
The recon give us the most popular character and amazing story expect for kagua and madara and hashirama are amazing characters so their recon was good
@ayham418 why do you think those are good characters? Because they have some ok fight scenes?
@@ayham418 Hashirama vs Madara fights are great but I don't think both characters are good character. They are average, their story isn't appealing itself.
He is... But they had to cut him off and so is Hiruzen and Minato
Hi dygo, can you make a video talking about the boruto vs naruto power scaling? i saw td on tiktok ppl arguing about this, and how boruto could solo naruto or kaguya since he can ''easily fight code'' (not my words, i don't read boruto so idk about this, i'm just curious).
In the original series, Hiruzen was the "god of shinobi". Minato had no statements to place him above Hiruzen. All we got were "if Minato were here" statements.
That places above minato. That one statement
@rac2300 Naruto constantly refers to the fourth Hokage as the strongest Hokage there ever was and he is also refered to as the only one to ever have a flee on sight order on him.
He also saved the village from the Fourth even though Hiruzen was there and he was refered to many times as the greatest Hokage.
Stop lying mate
@abongilezolanipeterson5588 Naruto doesn't know anything, though. He barely understood ninjutsu, but you think he was qualified to say who the strongest was? Meanwhile, Hiruzen's anbu as well as the story narrator have said Hiruzen was the strongest of all time. All of those are much more reliable than Naruto. I'm assuming you meant to say that he saved the village from the fox. Ok sure, but we now know that Hiruzen fought the fox that day too and is the one who pushed Kurama out of the village all by himself. At a very old age and nowhere near as strong as he used to be. However, that was at least the "if he were only 10 years younger" that Orochimaru was referring to. Last, Minato was not the only flee on sight order. Shisui is another one that was confirmed to have had that... and he got bodied by Danzo. You have to keep in mind that the only village that gave that to Minato was iwagakure. The other villages didn't seem to be as afraid of him.
@@rac2300 None of those guys said he was the strongest of all time.
I dare you to bring out a the manga chapter right now where that was said.
You won't find it.
Also, stop lying.
The Raikage himself said that he believed Minato to be undefeatable and unsurpassable.
So it's not just Iwa.
Your story is full of holes and lies bro
@abongilezolanipeterson5588 chapter 94- said by iruka. Chapter 140- said by Kabuto. Second data book. I don't remember what chapter the Anbu said he was the greatest kage, but it was during the Orochimaru fight. I have no reason to lie to you. The story wanted Hiruzen to be the strongest in history, but has declined in old age. Then you get Minato, who was stronger than Hiruzen as an old man. You have to remember though, that Minato was on par with Orochimaru at the time he became hokage. The only reason Orochimaru wasn't chosen over him was that oro was evil.
About the edo scene, where hiruzen interupted it:
I think, he truly interupted it.
But, it was not Minato in there.
Whe see later, that you have to prepare the edos before the battle. Orochimaru should have allready seen, that Minato was a failure.
But, he had a other forth.
The forth Kazekage.
Its believable, that Orochimaru wanted to use the kazekage at that moment and was interupted (in form of the retcon^^)
No. At that time Minato wasn’t sealed yet, out of universe. Which makes it a pothole.
@@arrownoir Out of universe is that statement right.
But, it wouldnt make sense In-Universe.
The option, that Orochimaru wanted to summon Kazekage would give that scene sense.
Pretty sure it's already been confirm to be the 4th in the casket.
@@hasseo195 It was Minato. The whole you can't summon someone trapped in the reaper wasn't a plot point until much much later in the series. Hiruzen did interrupt it himself he literally weaves the handsigns for edo tensei to stop it. People forget Hiruzen knew every technique in the village even the forbidden ones like Edo Tensei.
well, It's possible that Orochimaru intended to use the Fourth Kazekage during the Edo Tensei scene and was interrupted, leading to the retcon. The idea that it wasn't actually Minato makes sense considering the need for preparations before the battle.
True, but you're wrong to suggest that the retcon change of the lore is "good". Because to be honest the power creep is what make the War arc a joke. Forever ruining whatever setup Part 2 had going up until then. Hashirama being made that strong actually hurts both the story, and the whole aspect about youth surpassing the old. The newer generation being stronger and better than the previous one was a good element that should've continued from start to end. Buffing both Madara and Hasirama to parallel Sasuke and Naruto was a stupid move on Kishimoto's part. Keeping them as "weak" as they were would've been better for the story, and the battles to be had.
9:37 When Kakashi says they're like children to him, he's not talking about power level, he's talking about age, ie: Kakuzu has been around for a very long time (which is fitting for one of the two undead / zombie themed Akatsuki members).
The explanation I have in my head for why the 3rd did well, and why Orichmaru's summons's we're incomplete was the quality of the sacrifices.
He sacrificed those two sound genin, so the summons could only be as physically fit, or have have chakra depth as deep as the sacrifices naturally had.
So if you brought back someone like Might Dai, you couldn't have him open the 8 gates, unless the person you sacrificed was physically fit enough to do such a thing.
That's why the summons in the war were much stronger, because he was using White Zetsu which had massive amounts of durability and chakra way beyond the average shinobi.
I think kishimoto sesei was keeping early naruto pretty grounded and didn't wanted to go into all Dragon ball territory but kishimoto dropped the ball with end of part 1 In sasuke vs Naruto battle, As it went completely insane.
Some how thses two little brates who couldn't even climb tree few days ago, "Surpassed Pretty much any character we saw in display of sheer power and scale.
Kakashi, Tsunade, orochinaru even Juraiya didn't seemed much of the deal when i saw the sheer scale of that fight.
Of course minato would kill hiruzen after learning what he did to naruto.
To be fair, I would assume that Hashirama could resist Edo Tensei because a) Orochimaru's body was white Zetsu, which is made of Hashirama cells. b) The body used as a sacrifice was white Zetsu, which is made of Hashirama cells.
Orochimaru said that hashirama can break out of his control when ever he wanted
makes sense, hashirama's strong connection to white zetsu through his cells could potentially give him resistance against the Edo Tensei technique.
I think that the dialogue of Kakuzu was also to point out that he was quietly ancient, in fact could have fought Hashirama during his youth or anyway at the beginning of his Kage years, not so at the peak of Hashirama's power.
I always interpreted Kakuzu as an ancient powerful force, with something even primordial in him, but not an absolute peak of potency; we are still talking about an Akatsuki level of power, so really really high, too often underestimated in my opinion.
I never felt like the 3rd hokage stopped minato from coming back in that fight against orochimaru because minato was too powerful. It always felt like to me that he knew the combined might of the 1st,2nd,and 4th hokages were too strong for him.
Agreed and revealing minato too soon
I always interpreted it like he was saying specifically the guy in the third coffin being a problem if edo tensei succeeded. As in, I can handle the 1st and 2nd but not the 4th.
I mean "Old man" vs "Speed" on top of two more kages, its the stacks. Speed and smart is lethal while fast and dumb is Cheetu(HxH)
Both reasons apply. Think about it: the legendary/ hyped characters aren’t introduced that cheaply to a show and the fact that kishi introduced Hashi and tobi but not mina clearly indicates he planned for him to be the strongest and it wasn’t time yet to reveal him
@@Naaldersi think a majority of people agree with you on that. I felt like that point was conveyed pretty clearly, or so i thought lol.
13:48 The main antagonist didn't have to be the literal Madara who died. It was always going to be Obito. Leave the dead people in the past and allow the mystery of Obito to explode when it's time to need that overwhelming final boss. Because unlike Madara, Obito wouldn't need to be retconned to be stronger.
If you're concerned about him just being one of the edo tensei and still being a threat, he can still be one, it just shouldn't take all 5 kages to challenge him. Realistically though, edo tensei shouldn't have been the play. Shit was wack. Didn't feel like a real war or conflict.
Hiruzen only felt as ease when fighting the 1st and 2nd kage because he knew Orochimaru failed to bring them back at full power. Hiruzen was a product of Tobimara and Hashirama he knows how truly strong and devastating they could be. Hiruzen even knew that if the fight dragged out he would die to the both them in a weaker state. He did not want to 4th to apppear because even if it is weaker versions he is still fighting kages. Hiruzen knew he wasn't making it out of the fight alive not to mention Orochimaru wasn't even trying to fully kill him while the fended off the kages. If Orochimaru had fully pursued him while he fended off the kages he would have been in even more trouble. Hiruzen used Orochimaru's arrogant nature against him. Thinking his masters was a rusted old man but forgot he comes with a bag of tricks. Hiruzen also had a hard time fighting against Orochimaru. He was emotionally troubled, he still saw him as his dear student before he was consumed by darkness wnd greed. Even during his dying breath he saw the light in which Orochimaru used to be.
But Hiruzen literally said that they are as strong as ever in their edo tensei, their power just got reconned in war arc
I understand what your saying Dygoknight, however, Minato is very overhyped alot. When the series first began naruto was around 12 years old. This means, minato was dead for about 12 years, so he was still fresh in the minds/thoughts of people. So its obvious people are gonna make refrences about him. Hashirama had been dead for many many years, he was not fresh in peoples minds at that time. There is no clear evidence that Kishimooto had a change of mind. Did we not also see a very huge statue of hashirama & madara by the waterfalls? Did kishimooto put that there to symbolize that madara & hashirama were weaker than Minato? No. Big statues are put there as reminders for the next generation to remember the great people that came before them.
Also, Hiruzen was not happy to fight his two masters, orochimaru was fast enough to summon the two hokages first. So, obviously after seeing another coffin, hiruzen is not gonna wanna fight his student plus 3 immortal ninjas. Plus, its obvious the two hokages were very weak, because in the manga, they weren't very impressive. They were literally Root top level in strength😂.
So theres no evidence Kishimooto wanted Minato to be the strongest. I like him alot, but he is getting annoyingly overhyped alot now. 👍
Madara is a villain
Hard disagree with it being a good thing. When established facts are changed at the drop of a hat it undermines the reader's suspension of disbelief.
"Hashirama should have stayed weak" mfs when that makes Madara into Kakazu level fodder: 🗿
You’re giving kishimoto too much credit. I don’t believe he had these things planned out that long before they happened. It feels like the pain arc was gonna be the last before the sasuke fight. Both naruto and sasuke kill their main antagonist. The akatsuki were dead and Naruto’s ideology beat pains for peace. It feels like it was going to end and shonen jump said keep it going. And the war arc is really sloppy and the power creep is insane. The war was least minute.
You’re not giving kishimoto enough credit. Why would he publish an unfinished manga???
Wouldn’t you think that a professional writer would have the entire story figured out before publishing it?
I mean it’s the only ethical decision to make…
@@balloonb0y677umm… no…? It’s not uncommon for writers to make stuff up on the way(especially in the world of weekly manga) or to change things as they see fit. It’s also not uncommon for shonen jump to make drastic changes to it’s manga.
@@oceanman6973especially when you don't have freedom to aid more arc to focus on all these characters and killing popular characters
17:42 bro you could easily be a voice actor x)
Hii..
I wonder if there is any chance we could work with you to promote our Anime Merchandise on your TH-cam post or any other platform?
imagine danzo wanted to use 10 sharingans ..power of uchihas.. but ironically he needs a senju's cells to do it 😂😂 (hashirama cells)
Not sure where you get the idea that Minato was the “god of Shinobi” when it’s stated that Hiruzen was originally called that.
Reason why we like Minato:
He is a good dad with no choice but to leave his son and still regrets it ): more then I can say about most shounen dad.
Also he is a good guy too. Like he is such a heart warming character.
also i love the fact that tobirama himself admits that he improved the flying rajin thunder god tequinche which is really dope
Yeah hashirama was retconed but hiruzen was supposed to be strongest hokage in konoha's history. Hashirama and tobirama were supposed to be close in strength and hiruzen being the student of both of them was supposed to be stronger than them both and also why he also has the god of shinobi epithet.
"Imagine someone 100% made out of Hashirama cells, aka Hashirama himcellf!"
I do not think that there was a Retcon, about Hashirama. It is more like we have had a unreliable narrator.
We know of 4 people that are alive that fought or witnessed the power of Hashirama, alive during the Naruto before the War ARC. The third Hokage, which when they fought in Naruto, was an old man, not realizing how much he has fallen in power. So his statements were comparing their powers he did not realize that the zombie were considerably weaker than their living forms. I could say more about this but I will leave it there.
Next is Danzo , which he was considerably impressed with Hashirama, which is why he did the extensive graft of the cells.
We also had Kakuzu, which boasting of having fought Hashirama and is still alive could mean a lot of things. Since we do not know how Hashirama died. This is an intimidation tactic, because he did not say what happened.
The last one that I know of is Onoki. I do not remember if he ever talked about the power of Hashirama.
We all want a little bit of Hashirama inside of us😩
Wood style, morning wood jutsu. 💀
I want all of him 😌 especially the mentioned jutsu above
@@anyamiranda9452 😭😭
Hella gay
The amount of things that got ruined post timeskip...sigh
Speaking of retcons.
Wasn't the 4th hokage originally supposedly the strongest/greatest hokage?
- Did this get retconned?
- Was that a dub error?
- Am I experiencing the Mandela effect?
He 100% was stated to be the greatest ever and they always imply when shit goes down that Minato would have handled it no issue at all.
The 3rd was stated as the strongest ever. The 4th didn't have any statements like that aside from "if he were here, things would be different" kinda stuff.
no retcon. no dub error. no mandela effect. just different interpretations and perspectives.
Yes,that was heavily implied.
Good video, just, want to point two things.
1) Minato probably suffered from regency bias in the first part as his feats are more recent in people's minds and thus considered more powerful as people alive actually witnessed it.
2) Would you really want to fight against 3 Hokage? Him freaking out could have been due to that and not who it was.
The second got retconned too. Originally he’d didn’t have flying rajin or create edo tensi.
Yeah, the Scroll of Seals wrote itself. It was there since the beginning of time
Yeah he was known for just water release in part one
@@quentinjones6877 yeah and genjutsu
@@Blindcontroller if you're talking about that darkness jutsu, Hashirama did it in the manga, not Tobirama
@@quentinjones6877not that one, just genjutsu in general.
2:58 I always figured hiruzen was so concerned about the third coffin because he figured out the Jutsu after the first two coffins, and didn’t think he could take on 3 Kage at once. I don’t think he necessarily considered Mina to to be THAT much stronger than him (at the time the scene was written)
I also think that what hiruzen/orochimaru displayed during their fight was considered top kage-level fighting at the time, and the other hokage were meant to be similarly scaled. No way did kishimoto plan on making characters anywhere near as powerful as hashirama/Madara were in the war arc.
@@duncs394 I think that when the akatsuki were introduced hashiramas character was already fully developed because that’s when madaras character started appearing as an all powerful character.
I had always figured it was because being reminded of Minato would have caused a mental block similar to Tsudade's. Minato was a student of Jiraiya who was trained by Hiruzen.Hiruzen chose Minato to be his successor, so he didn't want that edo tensei blood on his hands as he wasn't able to save Minato the first time the village was attacked.
@@duncs394WRONG!
He already did plan that.
Naruto and Sasuke fought at the Valley of the End, the same valley that was created by Madara and Hashirama's battle.
So yes, in part one already Kishi already planned for them to be that powerful.
Also, Kakashi makes a note of how it was fitting and ironic that Naruto and Sasuke had their battle at that place.
So even back then, the Hashirama/Madara and Naruto/Sasuke transmigrant theme was already forshadowed.
Maybe simply 3 hokages would have been too much plus Orichimaru
The retcon with the first 2 hokage wasn’t that bad in terms of plot holes or anything since when orochimaru revived them in part 1 it was stated they weren’t at their full strengths… I do think the biggest person affected by this retcon is 3rd hokage as within Naruto lure he’s said to have surpassed both 1st and 2nd hokage… but there’s no evidence of him being remotely as strong as either 2 of them… they tried to keep this somewhat intact by never revealing prime hiruzens power so it’s always us left to speculate that he’s was stronger….
However he has nothing in his arsenal of jutsu to suggest this…
His most powerful jutsu include using all 5 chakra nature releases for a powerful blast of X element..
summoning monkey king Enma, repeat death seal…. And that’s it…
He’s never shown being able to do the flying raijin despite being a student of 2nd hokage and minato somehow the only other person to master it and even upgrade it with his use of Kunai…. He has no unique kekkei genkai…. His summoning is decent but not as great as hashirama wood golem and dragon yet alone 1000 hand Buddha… and when exactly was his prime since when Tobirama died he was already in his 20s or 30s and as a unit with Danzo and other elders were having issues vs the gold and silver brothers….
The spectacle of it all is still cool, but the retconning did completely break the original story's path. I think the fanbase and editors definitely shifted things past what Kishimoto had ever thought of for his story.
The fact VotE existed in Pt1 debunks this whole video. Two shinobi fought and created a Valley, and Hashirama won that battle. So that would still place Hashirama by EoS >> Edo Hashirama that fought Sarutobi.
The only people who started tossing the God of Shinobi title to him are people who actually seen Hashirama or was told about Hashirama directly from people who met him
the Madara and Hashirama flashback is also 1 of my favorite moments in the series.
i wish Kishimoto had countered the publisher's insistence on setting up Kaguya and aliens with "you know we can go back, right?" i mean, retcon asside, Madara saying 6th/7th gate Guy's level of taijutsu was common in his day. imagine all the insanity of every clan's main fighters being like akatsuki level on average, with amped up versions of every clan's kit we've seen so far. hell, they said the Uzumaki were slaughtered because their sealing jutsu was so feared so why not add a couple more clans that, for whatever reason, had to be erased.
Tobirama in that fight is embarrassed that he can only make two Clones, Is implied that he can make thousands like Naruto
Massive overestimating there
Why are you assuming thousands lol. It could be 10
He could make 1 for every nature he had. Hiruzen got his aresal from tobirama the shuriken clones
He was always able to make many clones, its just that making more clones divides your strength ever time more is made. Tobirama needed his clones to be at a certain strength. So yes, he could have made more, but the more he would have made, the weaker they would become. 👍
The only reason Naruto can make as many clones as he does is because of Kurama. The Shadow Clone Jutsu divides your chakra evenly among yourself and the clones.
Not many will agree, there’s no for sure way to prove this, AND Kishi and everyone involved with the manga/anime probably wouldnt quite remember.. but I believe this to be true.
Minato was portrayed as the God of Shinobi - even over the false God of Shinobi (Hiruzen)
They seemed to just throw that title around for most of the Hokage right? lol
I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis tho fam
Video idea: all talk no Justus in Naruto ranked 😂
Good ideA
@@DygoKnightI understand what your saying Dygoknight, however, Minato is very overhyped alot. When the series first began naruto was around 12 years old. This means, minato was dead for about 12 years, so he was still fresh in the minds/thoughts of people. So its obvious people are gonna make refrences about him. Hashirama had been dead for many many years, he was not fresh in peoples minds at that time. There is no clear evidence that Kishimooto had a change of mind. Did we not also see a very huge statue of hashirama & madara by the waterfalls? Did kishimooto put that there to symbolize that madara & hashirama were weaker than Minato? No. Big statues are put there as reminders for the next generation to remember the great people that came before them.
Also, Hiruzen was not happy to fight his two masters, orochimaru was fast enough to summon the two hokages first. So, obviously after seeing another coffin, hiruzen is not gonna wanna fight his student plus 3 immortal ninjas. Plus, its obvious the two hokages were very weak, because in the manga, they weren't very impressive. They were literally Root top level in strength😂.
So theres no evidence Kishimooto wanted Minato to be the strongest. I like him alot, but he is getting annoyingly overhyped alot now. 👍
He didn’t wanna fight 3 kages. He wasn’t worried about minato
Maybe kakuzu was stronger when he fought hashirama or even Hashihama was holding back against kakuzu, he is after all a nice guy that seemed to hate fighting. Just imagine what state kakuzu was in after fighting hashirama, I doubt he fully recovered afterwards.
Congrats on 100k.
Remember when the Anbu were impressed with Tobirama because he can create massive water jutsu without water? remember when that was Kage level skill?
The Hashi retcon was a precursor to the Kaguya introduction. Kaguya's mark was that all chakra was within her. Then she had children, and her chakra split. It continued to split each generation causing overall weaker generations (even if specific outliers existed, especially with sage modes). Continued weakness would place Hashi above any other Leaf ninja with continued, progressive weakening. Hints why a few generations later, everyone is awestruck by the power instead of just being essentially reminded of it. Personally, I find it to be terrible writing and worse for the universe. 1 because everyone continues to weaken, but 2, they were only a few generations removed. Power that significant should not have been a surprise.
For continuity sake, they should have made it so Orochimaru was using an older version of Edo tensei designed by 2nd for the purpose of taking out enemies with them(soul not included just the abilities of the body thus making them way weaker and making it so even those that were sealed can still be used like Minato). There should have been a new version developed and improved by Orochimaru where it will summon the perfect version of the person's body + their soul intact. Essentially making them way way stronger but requires non sealed souls in the process. This could have made more sense when Orochimaru attempted to use Minato against Hiruzen and 1st being capable of breaking the jutsu more coherent.
well hiruzen was described as god of shinobi in the early part 1 , but later retconned and his only title is professor, than minato was supposed to be the strongest, retconned again
The original God of Shinobi was Indra Otsutsuki. Madara and Hashirama were close in power during their younger years to their 20s. By the time they reached true adulthood Hashirama widened the gap. Madara could fight Hashirama and give him a high diff fight, but in came a new power gap. They were no longer near evenly matched but can still kill each other if any of them took the fight lightly.
Bro I can’t believe that you are just like me I agree with every single thing you said even the why much love for minato 😂❤ SASUKE LOVER
Didn't you do this one already?
He is trying to cement the fallacy that Madara - & Hashirama by extension - are stronger than Nagato/Pain, into the minds of the fanatics; because that's what he would like the reality to be but more and more individuals have come to notice that Nagato is the strongest character introduced into the franchise - and characters like Hashirama and Madara are extremely powerful so ...
I don't like the concept of legendary heroes because it raises a question: what happened to the world that people became so much weaker. I'd like the universe where the power level raises with every generation and peaks on Minato with Naruto being a candidate to surpass him.
totally unrelated but the statues in valley of the end feels out of place when u think about it. Imagine USA building statues of Bush and osama where twin towers once stood as a tribute to that they "fought" there in the past.
That's not the right analogy, Madara and Hashirama are the two founders of the Village
funny how kishimoto made hashirama the most powerful ninja of all time and is almost a god, but died at a young age and we don't even know how^^
I really prefer the old Naruto where it was about ninja with awesome skills and not about gods and aliens and all the redcons..
It's also interesting that his brother isn't even half as strong, even though he and he have the same genes and are brothers xD
I wouldn't be surprised that this is also a redcon. that at the beginning when kishimoto came up with them they weren't brothers.
They don't look alike. But both are from the Senju clan... yeah! probably from different mothers and fathers xD
At 5:51 I totally heard, "Madara's and Hashirama's statue face each other, symbolizing that they fucked there".
I was like "wait what?"! And had to rewind. You said it fine, I just have a messed up mind.
I wish to one day perform so well they create a giant statue in my name.
@@ricardokojin7🍜🌌😂
🍜🌌It really DID sound that Way! 😂
@@lisa2stewart haha okay I'm not crazy then 😂
That’s what I heard too I was looking for that comment
Idk if anybody else agrees, but I would have preferred less of a dramatic change to Hashirama’s power. Say for example Madara surpasses this weaker than canon (maybe Pain level) Hashirama after attaining EMS (not a full on Akatsuki soloer, but stronger than any individual member), and it takes Hashirama, Tobirama, and a young Hiruzen to take him down. Hashirama gives his life in the end to “kill” Madara, strong Uzumakis and Uchihas subdue Kurama with help from various clans of the Leaf, and Tobirama takes up the mantle of 2nd Hokage. Years later, Minato becomes the first ninja to match or surpass EMS Madara.
The event could also help fuel the Uchiha’s animosity towards the Leaf as they are still mistreated despite helping save it from such a great threat.
Is this a re upload? i feel like you made this video before
I always took Kakuzu's statement as aging himself and not just a bar for strength. Like, hes obviously old to have fought Hashirama, and staying "young" by some crazy ninjutsu. So to me, watching it, it was more setting his age and that he has some weird ninjutsu, and not so much, hes comparable to Hashirama.
I especially have a problem with Tobirama in Shippuden. He died in a lame way, to Ginkaku and Kinkaku( and 70 jonin), but in Shippuden he simply raised a single finger as a nerfed edo tensei, and everyone, including Sasuke, about shit their pants.
That mean he died against 20 highly skilled jonin
i'd love to see a fight between pre-rinnegan madera dual ems, vs an adult sasuke with both hands and ems.
Minato should’ve been the strongest Hokage but of course Kishimoto forgotten how to write a great story.
See, Naruto got way out of hand way too quickly. Like what even happened? At what point did Kishimoto run out of his original storyboard ideas and chose to just make a kaiju-god fight club?
That must've been it, right? We know Lee and Neji were supposed to, you know, ☠☠ at the end of part one, so that's why their characters had no story significance in part two up until the very end. So, we can infer that Kishimoto had most of Naruto Shippuden's plot points written down and ready to go AT LEAST up to the Pein arc, probably further but not to the war arc. Where did the original story go in between that moment and, I assume, Kishimoto being told to shoehorn in an easy spring into a sequel?
What I've realized is, the older I get, the less I enjoy Shippuden and the more I like part one Naruto. Shippuden hits a point where it becomes... boring. Like I can binge part one and not even notice until I hit the last episode, but Shippuden feels like a slog trying to binge watch, even ignoring filler, and I'm not sure why that happened. I guess Naruto (part one) wasn't written to be a commercial hit until it became one, and the studio and publisher demanded the more interesting mature themes and gore get watered down for something easier for 13yr olds to digest.
Shippuden is dumbed down and kind of unenjoyable outside of the pretty colors and the few notable fight sequences. I only remember Sasuke's battle with Deidara because I thought it was stupid how it was decided he would "win," I remember a fair amount of the Pein invasion, the Hidan and Kakuzu fights --- those were cool until Naruto showed up (js), and... uh, the taijutsu battle with Madara v 4th company because the anitubers are always replaying that one. I can't even get to most of the supposedly great Shippuden fights for another watch because everything else is so uninteresting. I don't know how else to word it.
I watched the war arc separately probably a good year or so after Shippuden ended because I figured I'll never make it to the end naturally and I might as well see it with my own eyes. No wonder the viewership ratings started plummeting and hit an all-time low with Boruto because Boruto is the culmination of everything that made Shippuden undesirable without any of the investment from watching over a decade of Naruto since we were 12.
My real question is: Is Shippuden actually good? Or do we just remember the fights fondly and forget the rest is basically as quality as Boruto? Because I find Boruto to be pretty freakin' boring, too, but I have less kind things to say about it because I don't care about the characters -- I'm not 12 anymore, I'm a whole adult and I'm sick of kiddie shows, you know? Was that not what Shippuden was? Idk, just thoughts.
nO oNe'S gOnNa rEaD-- I don't care if you're too stupid and illiterate to have a conversation. Don't even bother.
Mangakas have to keep producing entire new chapters within very limited time. Kishi went the easy way and just increased the power scalling of each arc.
Can't really blame him, but it did taint the overall story (+ allowed Boruto to be a thing).
Yeah shippuden definitely has the nostalgia effect for a lot of people but overall it is written significantly worse than part 1 almost to the point where it's really not even the same story anymore if you change the names of the characters. Everything is retconned. Everyone's themes and motivations are changed. Characters that were sick in part 1 aren't expanded upon in any way. The story becomes this super linear railroad track plot but somehow is still a mess and it all culminates in the end to fucking aliens. I really wish we could see a remake in the future like they do for western comics that actually fleshes out kishimotos original ideas for the story.
Read chapter one again everything happens in Shippuden was established in part one Shippuden is great not because the fight but it has amazing arc and the best arc and villains and great characters like madara the recon all of them expect for kagua and that thing to give Naruto and Sasuke power up and very emotional moment so Shippuden has way way moments than part one its not just like dragon Ball z but still great show
The Kakuzu moment was to signify his age, not necessarily his power. But it is true that Hashirama was never supposed to be that strong. Even Hiruzen said "your [Hashirama's] strength has not waned one bit" while fighting his Edo against Orochimaru in part 1.
but in the original naruto the reanimation jutsu performed by orochimaru was incomplete so 1st and 2nd were weaker that's what i thought long ago
Every who wanted more power:
"Ah yes Hashirama is made out of Hashirama cells."
One thing I always wanted is what if madara became the second hokage and he later deserted the village these would make more sense why the uchiha was so hated cause the villagers could always look back and say we once trusted the clan only to be backstab by them
I think the repcon was making them, Hashirama and Madara weak in the first place, I mean the leaders of both clans should be the grandsons of the Children of the six paths so, the Uchiha, and Senji clans. What believe is quit possible is what most story artists have is how to depicted or draw an illustration Canon to this made up story line that going to be cohesive to the storyline.
how would hashiram counter sharingan obito or wina against itachi and can he survive 8 gates guy?
bro kept the tail beast as pets ,had me dead