I mostly agree. I would say normal 1+2 is fine since it's range is smaller. Raven also has similar engager. Instead b2 shouldn't guarantee anything on hit since guaranteed phoenix shift is already a strong mixup
One of the things I don't like about all the PHX moves being guaranteed after b+2 is it means you really don't have to confirm whether the move hit or was blocked. You can just do the same option either way.
Damn. Took only more than a week to realize he isnt mid. What happened? Couldn't have been everyone getting to GoD with just f1+2 spam 29 times a minute. For sure it wasnt the armored move being full screen and safe from any range that's not point blank, while tracking. After all, its -13. Or -14. Or safe. Or something.
Is devil Jin the go to nerf character in his game cause I swear every game has that character where no matter what they somehow get nerfed even if it's not needed
@hamooddd hes really not that bad his power crush and prominence need to be adjusted. The rest of his tool kit is fine maybe b2 only have a follow up on counter
Great ideas for Clive, Majin. Would you do another video with 1-2 changes for all chracters? I think it might be nice to see. :) (Or keep this format and do it for all chars but that will take some time I guess hehe)
Hello, I know u did a video not long ago on tips for blue rank hell as beigemaster calls it lol. I've been a long time king player since the original Tekken on PS1. I'm 53 yrs old n can hold my own. Not tournament lvl which I could care less. Just curious if u have any tips for probably one of the oldest Tekken players
I would say f3:1+2 is his best mid for catching people ducking. Also learning how to confirm df21 on counterhit by paying attention if you've interrupted the opponent at doing something is what many blue rank king players don't do in my experience. Same goes for using throws defensively as counterhit. You also don't want your throws to be sidestepped, especially during flowcharts, it helps to delay your timing or do a sidestep as well. Just try to not play too predictable, avoid auto piloting but pay attention to the habits of your opponents. It helps a lot if you also know which moves are launchpunishable on block, because at these ranks people usually play more risky. Hope this helps a bit and it would be really cool if Majin could make a king guide for tekken 8
Clive’s f1+2 shouldn’t track at all. I would say tracking overall needs nerfing in general. Also too many power crush/armor moves are overpowered. It only makes sense for brute characters with poor sidestepping to have multiple utility armor moves.
I would leave him for now to see how pros use him in Tournaments. He is not broken like many other characters. Playing against him is not just spamming buttons so it's cool
The Clives you are playing probably doesn't know how to take advantage of frame data. Some Clive's I've played in gold ranks literally gives raid boss vibes.
I agree with you on the moves that should be changed. Every Clive I have fought spam the safe sword moves. I also agree with making rage arts minus 20. Rage arts are too strong in this game.
ragearts should be -20 because of recoverable health, too many players can spam them after they recovered much health making it impossible to finish them off especialy with some characters not having 15f launchers
I love your gameplay tips! I have a question though Have you retired from competitive tekken? I saw your fight against jdcr and became an instant fan of you! And if you haven't retired then are you planning to return anytime soon?
What about his strings in heat that are all safe like u1+2, 2,1 etc… they are alle mids and the entire string are -9. F4 1+2 tracks and is an heat engager safe at -9. What do you think about those Lil Majin?
They have highs in them that can be ducked on block (not on hit unfortunately). The PHX 1+2's animation should go ahead and have the homing special effect on it. Would look really goofy for it to not track. However, maybe it can be -12 on block. Idk.
King is good where he is as a top 15 or top arguably top 10 character. Don't worry though, the balance team will certainly significantly nerf him in season 2.
He's easier to win against than a good dragonuv, I don't think he needs nerfs, I get decimated at certain points but for the most part I still find a way to win, I think if anyone needs nerfs it's the top characters, not the character that's just strong enough to annoy ppl.. can we get to the real root of the problem.
There are moves that should get nerfed and heat. Chip damage too. Even in this video, I mentioned buffing Clive slightly once they normalize his tracking on his 1+2 moves.
Clive is okayish, the only thing that really annoys me about him is his b1+2, the range on it is ridiculous 2,50 meters plus the recovery from it is also pretty ridiculous
The whole selling point of a FF guest character with a sword is selling a totally OP character that’s easy to pick up. I haven’t liked one match playing against a Clive because he doesn’t have any clear weaknesses, so just playing Tekken doesn’t cut it, i have to take the time to really lab against him.
@epicon6 I mean he has weaknesses. It's his small tekken. you can't let him play at his range. I know that's hard but his pressure isn't real a lot of times in small tekken situations.
If you don't like clives match up your probably a turtle, keep pressure against him and all you really gotta worry about is his armor crush. He has little to no panic moves which means he's forced to rely on movement alot
Clive been broke since day 1 the content creators disregarded it because he was so “cool” now he’s mashing 1+2 over and over and it’s busted along with tons of other bullshit he has lol now we beg for nerfs
It's also kind of crazy that PHE 1+2 is as safe as it is with the amount of pushback it has. I just watched K-Wiss run a full set doing nothing but running roulette between PHE 1+2 and PHE 3,1+2 against GOOD players and there wasn't much the opponent could do. Couldn't move. Could barely even take the advantage after PHE 1+2. I think PHE 1+2 is too strong as well.
On d1+2 I think they should not remove the homing property because it is used to create space. In my opinion they should remove ch launch on it and that's all.
More like People who say he's completely broken are noobs . Yes he's got some really good moves but once they nerfed those specific moves and reduce abit of his damage he's going to drop quite abit. People forget his close range gameplay isn't that good. His biggest advantage is his range and phoenix stance having safe options. He's no where near as broken as alot of people are claiming him to be. If you want to see broken watch videos on tekken 7 dlcs
Clive is pretty strong though. But once you close the distance he is easy peasy. 1+2 can be stepped both ways. So his fastest move with tracking is really f1+2.. but you can easily step it if the first hit whiffs. His damaging lows are big risks. He's really kind of slow though. What they could nerf .. that you didnt mention is the heat move f2,2,1.. he's plus to even if you dont charge it. I think f1+2 is okay.. since you get a free turn after it.. nerf nina.. nerf alisa.. nerf Victor
For real!!! If I'm the tiniest bit late in my input, or if there's a bit of delay, my launcher could be the death of me. And there are characters that can't fully punish a rage art! This has been my biggest gripe (besides heat engagers and heat smashes) since t8 has come out.
@@Hi-Hi1990ragerarts stun the defender on block in this game, they added this stupid function on purpose to make them even more difficult to punish, tekken 8 devs are clearly noobs for creating such stupid mechanics
- Make f+1+2 100% linear - b+1+2 titan armor move should keep the push back but be more punishable on block - d+1+2 can keep some push back and hitbox, but make it -9 on block and few frames slower - b+2 should just be homing agreed, with no free heat engauger followup - yeah make 1+2 -12 on block - ws1 should only track to his right, but not left
nah launch punishable armor is nonsense, that would be useless for its purpose. If they wanna change it they should nerf other properties. 1+2 at -12 is also not a good idea, its an important check, they should just nerf other properties again. Its not splatting so its not your standard punishable 1+2. I dont get why its heat engager though. Other stuff I agree.
I like Clive, but i think you nailed the nerfs, maybe they didn't want to just give him a regular old demon breath, but yeah, makes ya go wtf at the same time, lol
Definitely want him to not rely on spamming the OP moves, balance out his small tekken a bit and reduce his just big swingers effectiveness. He is my dream character so definitely want him to be in a healthy spot
I feel like they either have to keep tracking on d1+2 or prominence But taking it out on both is kinda harsh. Nerf tracking on titan. Otherwise he is fine I don’t think he is top 5 or anything there are characters that need nerfs more urgently.
Neither should track when he already has b2 which hits from almost full screen, gives mixup on block, and guarantees more follow-ups on hit. Not to mention the homing kick into Torgul. That's more than enough for anti-stepping.
@ Not almost from full screen also you forgot to mention how slow it is and its a high, why can other characters have a homing mid’s that are safe on block when Clive doesn’t? speaking of the kick it doesn’t give oki and its super risky I don’t know what you expect.
@@aldahry4573 the homing kick doesn't give oki? Of course not. Most moves like that don't. Can't think of a single one that does tbh. Almost all homing mids in the game are on the slower side and the few that aren't have VERY poor range. The idea of homing mids that are this fast and have this much range is absurd. And b2 is slowISH. It's not like King's ff1 where it is so telegraphed that you can basically always stop moving and block it. From the range b2 hits from it does it's job of containing movement just fine and is incredibly advantageous on both hit AND block which is wild.
@@raidennc well that's what I am saying you know how many characters in this game have absurd moves? just take Jin as an example and you'll see the difference, until you actually strive to fix them don't just take moves from some and leave some, not only that you want to deprive Clive out of his most defining mids he has to use almost everytime for checks its just isn't possible to take both out what mids are you expecting him to use then without risking everything? you are already proving that this character's moves are already a bit below average and you take his most important 2 mids away from him? not mentioning that he can only access his low through his stance or whatever it's called which makes it worse. Now don't get me wrong he isn't weak but he just needs small nerfs and he'll be instantly mid tier.
@aldahry4573 I didn't say I wanted to "deprive him of his defining mids". But there should be more counterplay than there is currently. Making those moves not track will not destroy the character as he has other options very clearly designed for that purpose that would still remain.
You pretty much had the same ideas as me except I didn’t think of the changes to d1+2. Even with all these changes he would still be a solid character. If they want to throw him a bone, maybe expand the downward hitbox of his df1 so it’s easier to use in combos. Boom, he’s still pretty good like that.
@ I understand that he’s not saying they need to be done immediately. I’m saying people shouldn’t be suggesting nerfs at all . If the character has string tool but aren’t game breaking or ruining tournaments then they don’t need nerfs imo. Why we suggesting nerfs on a character in the future that’s hasn’t done anything .
I agreenwith everything here except 1+2 maybe. I think this one is good to keep considering this is his only real move that's i13 mid. A good mid check/panic button that he can use without much thinking. It's linear and doesn't knock down anyways.
@lilmajin if they nerf all this stuff the character will be mid at best.. he doesnt have the same pressure capability of other characters. Hes just a long range beast and a 50/50 machine. Usually whoever he faces gets to attack right after her attacks. He doesnt get a long turn. Se he needs the things he has for distance fighting and control. His d1+2 is fair considering victors ground stab does way more chip and is plus on block. And regarding the change in frames based on distance [b 1+2] , many moves change based on distance.. try jacks ff4 which is usually -10 on block but changes to -9 and sometimes -7 at tip range. If all these things change.. the character wont have his unique gameplay.. many characters have guaranteed heat engagers from subsequent moves. Hwo wr 3 i think.. lily ff3 into the heat engager combo.. like bro.. your the pro.. you know there are may characters with the same utility as other characters.. if they change his 13f mid to a punishable 12 .. he'll be another clumpy paul type.. and you see no one plays paul.. because he sucks..
I agree with most of what you're saying except for the Paul thing. Paul is insanely strong but the top 5 characters are more strong, which is why you don't see a LOT of characters. No one sucks in Tekken 8. Not even close.
His range is insane! His back 1+2 can reach from half the screen. His db 2,1 also makes it hard to approach him safely. He's definitely a keepout character. I've only fought against him with zafina so far. I think it's one of her worst matchups from what I've experienced, so it's been a struggle 😅. He also has some strings that track way too much. It's kind of tricky to sidestep aggressively since his best moves are the ones that track well. But I'm also trash so, theres that, lol. I also think he has way too many moves that are -13 that dont make sense. Some moves are way too big to only be -13 and smaller moves that look like they should be -12 or 11, making it hard to punish. It's been weird to punish him using only visual cues. Tbh, despite how strong he is, he's pretty fun to fight against. I'm gonna try him out, too. I wasn't really into Noctis, but Clive looks a lot more fun. But I also think they won't nerf him too hard, or rather, his nerfs won't be too productive. With how much effort the tekken team put to impress the FF devs/producers ( all to probably secure Tifa as future dlc), it would be a bit ballsy to nerf him so quickly. Probably just a few tweaks.
They should keep the tracking of F+1+2 but make it like -12 on block This way its still a super good move, but you cant spam it out just like before. 1+2 should also be -10 Maybe a little damage nerf overall as well....
Best feature for tekken could be the ban system. If everyone will be able to choose 3 heroes that they do not want to face, it will become easier for devs to see, who needs nerf at the moment. And it will be cool for me not to see Clive, Yoshi and Jin for some time.
I think instead of F1+2 being linear they could make it -11 and reduce the pushback that way you have to space it properly. along with the 2nd hit not tracking at all another change I would make is manual phoenix entry is a bit too fast considering his control over range 3 is absolute. id slow it down by 3-4 frames maybe i also think his demon breath needs to be safe tbh cause his small tekken is so lackluster its basically the closest thing he has to a panic move. lowkey the parry is kinda busted too i would at least put it in CH state on whiff
Let my boy have something 😭. Almost every good move he has is slow and ends his turn on block. I think he's aight except for the power crush. Like you said it should always be -14. Edit: Your demon breath take also sounds good, honestly
His F1+2 can keep its tracking just make it -12 to -13 so people have to think about how to place it also his FF2 shouldn’t be anywhere as plus as it is, +14 on block into stance, prevents you from doing literally anything, can’t attempt to sidestep any move, can’t rage art, parry or power crush anything, pure 50/50 with strong lows and his stance 1+2 is too good as well with its pushback, the heat mid mid that’s plus 4 on block from stance just makes him a nightmare, F1+2 heat engager because you got clipped trying to move, into FF2 stance into stance 2, 1+2 heat move, he has too many strong tools that completely scare you from wanting to press or move
I think the best cilve nerf would be to make King's GS come out on frame 9
LOL
Totally reasonable 😊
Give this man position at tekken 8 balancing team
@@Maw117 Funniest comment I've seen 😂
If you had suggested 5 frames they'd hire you for the tekken balancing team
This is so broken bro we really need to nerf devil jin
The nerf Devil Jin thing is hilarious haha.
😂😂😂😂😂
I gotta admitt, Clive is much stronger than i originally thought...
Ulsan said this day one. He has everything but best
I mostly agree. I would say normal 1+2 is fine since it's range is smaller. Raven also has similar engager. Instead b2 shouldn't guarantee anything on hit since guaranteed phoenix shift is already a strong mixup
One of the things I don't like about all the PHX moves being guaranteed after b+2 is it means you really don't have to confirm whether the move hit or was blocked. You can just do the same option either way.
I feel like back 1+2 should be steppable on both sides. The move looks very linear but it isn't for a mid-power crush.
Mid power crush that dpuble as a full screen projectile
Damn. Took only more than a week to realize he isnt mid. What happened? Couldn't have been everyone getting to GoD with just f1+2 spam 29 times a minute. For sure it wasnt the armored move being full screen and safe from any range that's not point blank, while tracking. After all, its -13. Or -14. Or safe. Or something.
Lol
powercrush from further range is -13 (safe from that distance)
Hes is mid stop this slander majin nerf devil jin
Devil Jin? LOL.
Is devil Jin the go to nerf character in his game cause I swear every game has that character where no matter what they somehow get nerfed even if it's not needed
I know this is satire but there are genuinely people who say “learn the matchup” as if he’s not a broken ass character lmfao
@hamooddd hes really not that bad his power crush and prominence need to be adjusted. The rest of his tool kit is fine maybe b2 only have a follow up on counter
@@jordanisiah24 spotted a Clive main 😂
Great ideas for Clive, Majin. Would you do another video with 1-2 changes for all chracters? I think it might be nice to see. :)
(Or keep this format and do it for all chars but that will take some time I guess hehe)
Not a bad idea
Hello, I know u did a video not long ago on tips for blue rank hell as beigemaster calls it lol. I've been a long time king player since the original Tekken on PS1. I'm 53 yrs old n can hold my own. Not tournament lvl which I could care less. Just curious if u have any tips for probably one of the oldest Tekken players
I would say f3:1+2 is his best mid for catching people ducking. Also learning how to confirm df21 on counterhit by paying attention if you've interrupted the opponent at doing something is what many blue rank king players don't do in my experience. Same goes for using throws defensively as counterhit. You also don't want your throws to be sidestepped, especially during flowcharts, it helps to delay your timing or do a sidestep as well. Just try to not play too predictable, avoid auto piloting but pay attention to the habits of your opponents. It helps a lot if you also know which moves are launchpunishable on block, because at these ranks people usually play more risky.
Hope this helps a bit and it would be really cool if Majin could make a king guide for tekken 8
It's way too easy to heat dash confirm his f1+2 into a full combo with it being 2 hits, do you think it should lead to a grounded followup instead?
You forgot the mid,mid,mid string with the giard break thats +2 on block or guard break.
@@kato093 Anything other than immediate timing on F2, 2, 1 is interruptable
@tylerhicks621 yes. As all charge guard break moves. However, the uncharged one is +2 and the guard break is a guard break.
2015: nerf Greninja
2024: nerf Devil Jin
They need make that 1+2 punishable like Paul's death punch and not track and his phantom range
-17? That's a bit much considering all demon breath attacks are less punishable.
Raven has similar 1+2 which also -9 and full launcher with heat,but it’s have i14 startup so…
Clive’s f1+2 shouldn’t track at all. I would say tracking overall needs nerfing in general. Also
too many power crush/armor moves are overpowered. It only makes sense for brute characters with poor sidestepping to have multiple utility armor moves.
I would leave him for now to see how pros use him in Tournaments. He is not broken like many other characters. Playing against him is not just spamming buttons so it's cool
The Clives you are playing probably doesn't know how to take advantage of frame data. Some Clive's I've played in gold ranks literally gives raid boss vibes.
He already won a tourny
I agree with you on the moves that should be changed. Every Clive I have fought spam the safe sword moves. I also agree with making rage arts minus 20. Rage arts are too strong in this game.
ragearts should be -20 because of recoverable health, too many players can spam them after they recovered much health making it impossible to finish them off especialy with some characters not having 15f launchers
I love your gameplay tips! I have a question though
Have you retired from competitive tekken? I saw your fight against jdcr and became an instant fan of you!
And if you haven't retired then are you planning to return anytime soon?
Love your videos Majin you the king goat! ❤
What about his strings in heat that are all safe like u1+2, 2,1 etc… they are alle mids and the entire string are -9.
F4 1+2 tracks and is an heat engager safe at -9. What do you think about those Lil Majin?
They have highs in them that can be ducked on block (not on hit unfortunately). The PHX 1+2's animation should go ahead and have the homing special effect on it. Would look really goofy for it to not track. However, maybe it can be -12 on block. Idk.
So, what about King balance?
King is good where he is as a top 15 or top arguably top 10 character. Don't worry though, the balance team will certainly significantly nerf him in season 2.
He's easier to win against than a good dragonuv, I don't think he needs nerfs, I get decimated at certain points but for the most part I still find a way to win, I think if anyone needs nerfs it's the top characters, not the character that's just strong enough to annoy ppl.. can we get to the real root of the problem.
There are moves that should get nerfed and heat. Chip damage too. Even in this video, I mentioned buffing Clive slightly once they normalize his tracking on his 1+2 moves.
Clive is okayish, the only thing that really annoys me about him is his b1+2, the range on it is ridiculous 2,50 meters plus the recovery from it is also pretty ridiculous
The whole selling point of a FF guest character with a sword is selling a totally OP character that’s easy to pick up.
I haven’t liked one match playing against a Clive because he doesn’t have any clear weaknesses, so just playing Tekken doesn’t cut it, i have to take the time to really lab against him.
@epicon6 I mean he has weaknesses. It's his small tekken. you can't let him play at his range. I know that's hard but his pressure isn't real a lot of times in small tekken situations.
EXACTLY, square enix will be mad if bamco nerf him, thats why i hate guest characters, you have to lick off the bizzness partner's boots
@tiger-rgn Square Enix literally said if he's too strong you can nerf him in the last collab livestream, what are you talking about?
@tiger-rgn bro you literally made shit up. Yoshi P literally said nerf him if he's too strong in the interview. Do you even play tekken?
If you don't like clives match up your probably a turtle, keep pressure against him and all you really gotta worry about is his armor crush. He has little to no panic moves which means he's forced to rely on movement alot
F1+2 should still track to the right.
Why?
U must have a doppelganger in Georgia hes a bank manager. I showed the teller ur picture n they swore ut was him lol
We all have lookalikes indeed.
Clive been broke since day 1 the content creators disregarded it because he was so “cool” now he’s mashing 1+2 over and over and it’s busted along with tons of other bullshit he has lol now we beg for nerfs
You didn't mention the last hit of his heatsmash,who's basically a homing fullscreen
A hit, who... isn't a person.
My boy!
It's also kind of crazy that PHE 1+2 is as safe as it is with the amount of pushback it has. I just watched K-Wiss run a full set doing nothing but running roulette between PHE 1+2 and PHE 3,1+2 against GOOD players and there wasn't much the opponent could do. Couldn't move. Could barely even take the advantage after PHE 1+2. I think PHE 1+2 is too strong as well.
Clive is a my 1st tekken type of character.
Rage arts must be -25 😭😭
-18 or -19 would be totally fine
@dr.shtopor I say - 25 coz Characters like Steve could also launch it
@@DEMONICBANANA7087 i don't know, but i think Steve has faster combo starters
@@dr.shtopor he doesn't.. The only way would be to go into peekaboo and do uf2 which requires execution
@@DEMONICBANANA7087 in that case they should give steve a 15f launcher and leave rage arts -15
Throw the whole character away. Replace him with an actual Tekken character
People calling him mid are noobs🗿 he is top 10 for sure
On d1+2 I think they should not remove the homing property because it is used to create space. In my opinion they should remove ch launch on it and that's all.
@TK_TheFURY I might put him top 5 tbh. just hoping they dont overdo it and kill the character hes my only motivation for picking T8 back up 😂
People putting him at top 10 or high tier are noobs for sure.
More like People who say he's completely broken are noobs . Yes he's got some really good moves but once they nerfed those specific moves and reduce abit of his damage he's going to drop quite abit. People forget his close range gameplay isn't that good. His biggest advantage is his range and phoenix stance having safe options. He's no where near as broken as alot of people are claiming him to be. If you want to see broken watch videos on tekken 7 dlcs
PLEASE BRO NO NERF IM ACTUALLY HAVING FUN MAN COME ON ALWAYS ASKING FOR NERFS WHY
Preach! I enjoy playing as Clive too, but he doesn't need to be dumb.
Clive is pretty strong though. But once you close the distance he is easy peasy. 1+2 can be stepped both ways. So his fastest move with tracking is really f1+2.. but you can easily step it if the first hit whiffs. His damaging lows are big risks. He's really kind of slow though. What they could nerf .. that you didnt mention is the heat move f2,2,1.. he's plus to even if you dont charge it. I think f1+2 is okay.. since you get a free turn after it.. nerf nina.. nerf alisa.. nerf Victor
easily sidestep f1+2? lmao get lost
@tiger-rgn ONLY if the first hit whiffs bro
These nerfs are too much. Why want to make Clive like noctis ie barely touched
Nerf Jin yoshi drag and nina first
Glad I’m not the only one who has the same thoughts about rage arts bc why are they so awkward to punish sometimes
For real!!! If I'm the tiniest bit late in my input, or if there's a bit of delay, my launcher could be the death of me. And there are characters that can't fully punish a rage art! This has been my biggest gripe (besides heat engagers and heat smashes) since t8 has come out.
@@Hi-Hi1990ragerarts stun the defender on block in this game, they added this stupid function on purpose to make them even more difficult to punish, tekken 8 devs are clearly noobs for creating such stupid mechanics
yeah i agree with you the character is braindead stupid right now
Square enix disapproves this
- Make f+1+2 100% linear
- b+1+2 titan armor move should keep the push back but be more punishable on block
- d+1+2 can keep some push back and hitbox, but make it -9 on block and few frames slower
- b+2 should just be homing agreed, with no free heat engauger followup
- yeah make 1+2 -12 on block
- ws1 should only track to his right, but not left
nah launch punishable armor is nonsense, that would be useless for its purpose. If they wanna change it they should nerf other properties. 1+2 at -12 is also not a good idea, its an important check, they should just nerf other properties again. Its not splatting so its not your standard punishable 1+2. I dont get why its heat engager though. Other stuff I agree.
I like Clive, but i think you nailed the nerfs, maybe they didn't want to just give him a regular old demon breath, but yeah, makes ya go wtf at the same time, lol
The best way to balance Clive would be to make his DB4 be in crouching state, and Odin sword attacks should deal mixed permanent and chip damage
Definitely want him to not rely on spamming the OP moves, balance out his small tekken a bit and reduce his just big swingers effectiveness. He is my dream character so definitely want him to be in a healthy spot
Nah he doesn’t have enough tracking.
LOL
Seems like they’ve resolved to make dlc characters very strong for a couple of weeks
I feel like they either have to keep tracking on d1+2 or prominence
But taking it out on both is kinda harsh.
Nerf tracking on titan.
Otherwise he is fine I don’t think he is top 5 or anything there are characters that need nerfs more urgently.
Neither should track when he already has b2 which hits from almost full screen, gives mixup on block, and guarantees more follow-ups on hit. Not to mention the homing kick into Torgul. That's more than enough for anti-stepping.
@
Not almost from full screen also you forgot to mention how slow it is and its a high, why can other characters have a homing mid’s that are safe on block when Clive doesn’t? speaking of the kick it doesn’t give oki and its super risky I don’t know what you expect.
@@aldahry4573 the homing kick doesn't give oki? Of course not. Most moves like that don't. Can't think of a single one that does tbh.
Almost all homing mids in the game are on the slower side and the few that aren't have VERY poor range. The idea of homing mids that are this fast and have this much range is absurd.
And b2 is slowISH. It's not like King's ff1 where it is so telegraphed that you can basically always stop moving and block it. From the range b2 hits from it does it's job of containing movement just fine and is incredibly advantageous on both hit AND block which is wild.
@@raidennc well that's what I am saying you know how many characters in this game have absurd moves? just take Jin as an example and you'll see the difference, until you actually strive to fix them don't just take moves from some and leave some, not only that you want to deprive Clive out of his most defining mids he has to use almost everytime for checks its just isn't possible to take both out what mids are you expecting him to use then without risking everything? you are already proving that this character's moves are already a bit below average and you take his most important 2 mids away from him? not mentioning that he can only access his low through his stance or whatever it's called which makes it worse. Now don't get me wrong he isn't weak but he just needs small nerfs and he'll be instantly mid tier.
@aldahry4573 I didn't say I wanted to "deprive him of his defining mids". But there should be more counterplay than there is currently. Making those moves not track will not destroy the character as he has other options very clearly designed for that purpose that would still remain.
basically his recovery feames on back 1+2 need to increase so its actually more punishable tather than make it like -16 or somethin
You pretty much had the same ideas as me except I didn’t think of the changes to d1+2. Even with all these changes he would still be a solid character.
If they want to throw him a bone, maybe expand the downward hitbox of his df1 so it’s easier to use in combos. Boom, he’s still pretty good like that.
Tekken players never seen a nerf they don’t like. Let the character rock for a bit .
read the title
@ I understand that he’s not saying they need to be done immediately. I’m saying people shouldn’t be suggesting nerfs at all . If the character has string tool but aren’t game breaking or ruining tournaments then they don’t need nerfs imo. Why we suggesting nerfs on a character in the future that’s hasn’t done anything .
I agreenwith everything here except 1+2 maybe. I think this one is good to keep considering this is his only real move that's i13 mid. A good mid check/panic button that he can use without much thinking. It's linear and doesn't knock down anyways.
He's cheap and annoying to fight, but I don't think he needs nerfs.. just lab him. And buff everybody eles! Lol Happy New Year, everyone!!
@lilmajin if they nerf all this stuff the character will be mid at best.. he doesnt have the same pressure capability of other characters. Hes just a long range beast and a 50/50 machine. Usually whoever he faces gets to attack right after her attacks. He doesnt get a long turn. Se he needs the things he has for distance fighting and control. His d1+2 is fair considering victors ground stab does way more chip and is plus on block. And regarding the change in frames based on distance [b 1+2] , many moves change based on distance.. try jacks ff4 which is usually -10 on block but changes to -9 and sometimes -7 at tip range. If all these things change.. the character wont have his unique gameplay.. many characters have guaranteed heat engagers from subsequent moves. Hwo wr 3 i think.. lily ff3 into the heat engager combo.. like bro.. your the pro.. you know there are may characters with the same utility as other characters.. if they change his 13f mid to a punishable 12 .. he'll be another clumpy paul type.. and you see no one plays paul.. because he sucks..
I agree with most of what you're saying except for the Paul thing. Paul is insanely strong but the top 5 characters are more strong, which is why you don't see a LOT of characters. No one sucks in Tekken 8. Not even close.
His range is insane! His back 1+2 can reach from half the screen. His db 2,1 also makes it hard to approach him safely. He's definitely a keepout character. I've only fought against him with zafina so far. I think it's one of her worst matchups from what I've experienced, so it's been a struggle 😅. He also has some strings that track way too much. It's kind of tricky to sidestep aggressively since his best moves are the ones that track well. But I'm also trash so, theres that, lol. I also think he has way too many moves that are -13 that dont make sense. Some moves are way too big to only be -13 and smaller moves that look like they should be -12 or 11, making it hard to punish. It's been weird to punish him using only visual cues.
Tbh, despite how strong he is, he's pretty fun to fight against. I'm gonna try him out, too. I wasn't really into Noctis, but Clive looks a lot more fun.
But I also think they won't nerf him too hard, or rather, his nerfs won't be too productive. With how much effort the tekken team put to impress the FF devs/producers ( all to probably secure Tifa as future dlc), it would be a bit ballsy to nerf him so quickly. Probably just a few tweaks.
They should keep the tracking of F+1+2 but make it like -12 on block
This way its still a super good move, but you cant spam it out just like before.
1+2 should also be -10
Maybe a little damage nerf overall as well....
Best feature for tekken could be the ban system. If everyone will be able to choose 3 heroes that they do not want to face, it will become easier for devs to see, who needs nerf at the moment. And it will be cool for me not to see Clive, Yoshi and Jin for some time.
Clive is unbalanced, every move is almost the whole space. Even the Devil Jin runs away🤣🤣🤣
I think instead of F1+2 being linear they could make it -11 and reduce the pushback that way you have to space it properly. along with the 2nd hit not tracking at all
another change I would make is manual phoenix entry is a bit too fast considering his control over range 3 is absolute. id slow it down by 3-4 frames maybe
i also think his demon breath needs to be safe tbh cause his small tekken is so lackluster its basically the closest thing he has to a panic move.
lowkey the parry is kinda busted too i would at least put it in CH state on whiff
💪🦁👍
I think people forget that Clive damage is almost only recoverable, you put the pressure on the guy and you can extend your health bar to almost 200%
He doesn't need pokes, he can just stand in the corner and hit you from there. This Clive cancer gotta go.
Lmao bruh, you’re gutting the char!!!! You can’t tell me with the changes you’re he will be a top 10 or even top 15 char
That isn't gutting at all. Just a few changes. I even asked for a buff in the video amongst the nerfs.
I think DB4 needs to be a little bit slower
It's fine since it doesn't high crush.
Let my boy have something 😭. Almost every good move he has is slow and ends his turn on block.
I think he's aight except for the power crush. Like you said it should always be -14.
Edit: Your demon breath take also sounds good, honestly
No one loves fans of «press x to win» characters like you.
Why is his guard stance so lazy…arms at his side 😒
Clive doesn't even block in his own game. Evade and Counter instead
@ the hell are you talking about? 🤨😂
His F1+2 can keep its tracking just make it -12 to -13 so people have to think about how to place it also his FF2 shouldn’t be anywhere as plus as it is, +14 on block into stance, prevents you from doing literally anything, can’t attempt to sidestep any move, can’t rage art, parry or power crush anything, pure 50/50 with strong lows and his stance 1+2 is too good as well with its pushback, the heat mid mid that’s plus 4 on block from stance just makes him a nightmare, F1+2 heat engager because you got clipped trying to move, into FF2 stance into stance 2, 1+2 heat move, he has too many strong tools that completely scare you from wanting to press or move
I hate Clive as much as the next guy, but making F1+2 unsafe is too harsh.