This is great work. Exactly the kind of work that electric motorcycle aftermarket charging deserves: engineered for weathering, with active cooling, using appropriate parts and connectors.
Outstanding electrical and engineering craftmanship Max, great to see. Looking forward to seeing the next edition and your analysis of electrical heat rise and performance.
Any chance you'll sell the files for the water block so others can fabricate one? And maybe a parts list? You could sell the digital files as so others can build their own.
Hi Max! I have my 14,4kWh Zero S since half year now and I can easily make trips of 220km a day at 65km/h speed max about 5 hours ride, and I am very very tired (not the bike) to keep the throttle at that position and not use brakes just coast (only brake regeneration no throttle off brake). I am thinking now about a fast charge option but not the expensive 6kW charge tank, as I am not needing it all the time. Is there a way to have an off bike 6kW charger like the DEltaQ 1kW just a 6kW so I could put it to my top case if I need 6kW+1kW charge power on longer trip, but don't have to carry all the time on my maximum 200km/day trips? So some external 6kW at least for the auxilary charge plug and I could modify my custom Type2 cable of course to power both the external and inboard. I think any aftermarket 6kW chargers could work as not need to activate the charge progress with the can-bus signal on the auxilary charger plug because the internal charger activates it and the 6kW external just works in parallel when battery pack relay is on and active... maybe that could be the cheapest and best idea for a faster charging without bringing a charge tank all time.
Sehr geil gemacht! Manche sagen „over-engineered“, andere sagen „einfach genau richtig“. Sag mal, bist du so nett und verlinkst mal diesen coolen mini-Stecker nach „Militärstandard“?!
Hi Max, thanks for the video, looks like a very well engineered system. I have a couple of zero motorcycles that I have modified one of them is intended for purely off road use, I have removed the onboard charger and charge using a couple of delta Q units. The platform is based on the FXS and the wiring loom is almost identical to the SR. I am by no means knowledgeable in electronics but I have a question about the canbus, I see that you have some sort of module fitted to your bike to control the chargers I assume it communicates with the bms or mbb? My question is why is this needed since I know on my zero there is no canbus conection between the bike and zero approved delta Q charger, it simply has a positive, negative and enable wire which is an accessory pin in the stock anderson connector?
Hi mariryalen, this little box purely serves as an interface between the chargers and the charging station. It will handle all the communication necessary to turn the station on and limit the chargers current draw to what the station is able to provide. Currently this interface doesn't communicate to the BMS, nor the MBB, but in the future I'd like to integrate at least the BMS. Best electric regards Max Jäger
I know you have finished this project but at any point did you think of putting a chill plate between the controller and the existing heatsink so that you could reject the heat out of the back of the bike instead of under the tank. You could then run a powertank for additional range if you wanted to.
Hi Scott, that sound like a pretty good and also sleek idea. On the other hand I'm not quite sure if this heatsink could reliably get rid of the heat. Best electric regards Max Jäger
Hello max great job great explanations. Do you plan produce some 3 to 10 kw charger kit ?! Would be great... Is the liquid cooling system absoluutely necessary ? 🙏👏👍💪👌
Hi Y from Mars, I don't plan to produce any charger-kits. The cooling system is necessary if you want a charging system that won't throttle due to overheating and also won't cook your battery. My cooling systems pretty much isolates the heat generated from the chargers from the battery pack, so it only heats up slowly and evenly due to its internal resistance. But since you're asking, there was a system that featured the same chargers just without the cooling system, it's the Supercharger from former DigiNow. Unfortunately it didn't work reliable all the time because there were some isolation faults that messed with the CAN-BUS controls and the chargers also went into thermal throttling because of inappropriate cooling after a few minutes (also the hot chargers with 70°C+ heated the bottom of the battery and thereby decreased its longevety). Best electric regards Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Thanks a lot for you detailed answer. In fact I only search for an external 3300W charger to replace the onboard one when it will die and to have a quicker charging time when needed. And also thank you for precision about the DC/C model. Gzzz Gzz Regards, Y
Hi! I plan to buy a 2021 Zero S 14.4 battery version. Is there a way to add type 2 fast charging for it? As I see there is a Charge tank modification option for 6kW charging, that would be also good, just have to make sure it can be added and accepts Type 2 public stations. I already have for my current ebike a Type 2 -> Schucko adapter so I can use my slow 500W home charger with that and it works up to 16Amps at current resistor config so until 11kW, but with a resistor change can full type 2 AC be used like 22.5kw.... I have to achieve 250km range so need a stop for charging at public Type 2 station and charge in max 2 hours.
There is a way to make it but it will require some custom building. I did it on my Zero SR 2015. You can check some info in my channel, but most of the content is still done in Spanish ==> th-cam.com/video/TnVWUGMaurE/w-d-xo.html
Depending on what you plan to do with the charging options, you can either go for an aftermarket charging solution to charge faster (as Max did on his video) or you can use the same adapter you already have from your ebike to charge with the onboard charger at 1.3 kW, but it will charge slooow
@@fotoamgamgfoto3695 in type 2 you are limited to a max of 22 kW in most stations. Type 1 can only charge at maximum 7.4 kW, so type 1 is not what you are looking for. In the video I shared there is a part where I explain how to build the diagram needed to connect to the charging station and how to wire from a type 2 to 3 independent schuko plugs. Then you can connect your chargers to the schukos and to the bike
@@DanielMonteroElectraveler sorry maybe I understood wrong, but Charge tank is te first thing I can put on my Zero S and it has american Type1 plug, if I add a type 1- type 2 converter stil have 1 phase as type 1 will be the input for teh charge tank and limited to 6-7.4kw around. Of course I could rewire things but will need more confidence and infos to dig first, I will check your video than for diagram, thank you!
Yes, even though it would work* without whole the cooling system. But there is also some typical German over-engineering involved (easy expansion of the cooling system for motor and/or controller cooling). *It would, but only for some minutes since the chargers will overheat pretty quickly and go into thermal throttling or shut off completely. Best electric regards Max Jäger
Yep, my digiNow system overheats after 20-25 minutes of charging at 10kW and shuts down completely until it cools down enough to slowly ramp up to 4-5kW or so
Moin @ungeimpfter460, natürlich reduziert jede Steigerung der Ladeleistung die Langlebigkeit des Akkus. Man muss hier allerdings klar festhalten, dass diese Mehrbelastung für den Akku nur marginal ausfällt. So bleibe ich, trotz der deutlich gestiegenen Ladeleistung von 1,2kW auf 9,9kW, auch weiterhin unter der Grenze von 1C. Erst ab diesem Wert, respektive ca. 12kW Ladeleistung, wird ein nicht für Schnellladungen konzipierter Akku übermäßig belastet. Außerdem ist aufgrund des deutlich reduzierten Wärmeeintrags von den Ladegeräten eher mit einer unveränderten bzw. leichten Verbesserung der Langlebigkeit des Akkus zu rechnen. Mit elektrischen Grüßen Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Danke Max für deine ausführliche Schilderung. Das klingt schon mal sehr sehr gut. 😇 Insgesamt dürfte aufgrund deines Umbaus aber locker 10-15kg Mehrgewicht hinzugekommen sein oder? Würdest du bei vorhandenen Chargetank diesen mit verwenden? Oder eher ausbauen? Defekte wie beim onboard Lader sind jedenfalls wenige bekannt. Mir zumindest und in Foren liest man diesbezüglich auch nichts. Vlt mal in amerikanischen Foren lesen.
@@Max_Jaeger ach und bietest du entsprechend so einen Umbau aus Hobby und eigene Gefahr an? Wird zumindest erstmal schwierig an Otten Lader zu kommen tc hat wohl seine Lader geändert 😕
@@Max_Jaeger und kann man dich noch fragen ob du der Meinung bist das man den kleinen 7,2er Akku ebenfalls schnell laden kann ohne ihn zu schädigen? Dann halt nur 5kw maximal statt 10kw. Und nimmt sich zwischen dem großen und dem kleinen viel bezüglich Haltbarkeit?
@@ungeimpfter460 1. Ja 2. Ja 3. Wenn du mit dem kleineren Akku ähnliche Fahrleistungen erreichen möchtest wie mit dem großen, dann wird dieser zwangsläufig (Ladezyklen) stärker beansprucht. Ansonsten sollte auch der kleine Akku bei entsprechender Pflege sehr lange halten.
Sehr geil gemacht! Manche sagen „over-engineered“, andere sagen „einfach genau richtig“. Sag mal, bist du so nett und verlinkst mal diesen coolen mini-Stecker nach „Militärstandard“?!
Moin Krischi83, anbei findest du den Link zu "einem" Stecker, bitte beachte aber das es mehrere Ausführungen gibt und die Crimpkontakte separat bestellt werden müssen. Der Katalog von SOURIAU ist hierfür sehr hilfreich. www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Souriau/UTS1GJC147P?qs=%2Fha2pyFadujO4jdFhs6O9MMrJ3M0qQJjfOvkOo2nsHOhbFTqJX5S6w%3D%3D Mit elektrischen Grüßen Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Danke dir! Der Stecker ist ja mega geil! 16 A Scheinen ja überhaupt kein Thema zu sein und die Größe ist ja perfekt für’s „Moped“ :) ich forste mich da grad durch und bin mir etwas unsicher, welche Teile ich benötige. Hast du evtl. noch die Teilenummern aller benötigten Teile? Inkl. der Crimpkontakte?
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This is great work. Exactly the kind of work that electric motorcycle aftermarket charging deserves: engineered for weathering, with active cooling, using appropriate parts and connectors.
Eccellent setup. Zero should get in contact with this guy.
hahahahahahahahah
they won't.
Outstanding electrical and engineering craftmanship Max, great to see. Looking forward to seeing the next edition and your analysis of electrical heat rise and performance.
Thank you for sharing this.
Awesome video! Could you please share where you got your water pump and radiator? I am looking for recommendations on water coolers thanks!!
I would like to see the Zero on the road with this setup. No CCS charging in sight? Would solve a lotof the issues.
Any chance you'll sell the files for the water block so others can fabricate one? And maybe a parts list? You could sell the digital files as so others can build their own.
Great setup.
Hi Max! I have my 14,4kWh Zero S since half year now and I can easily make trips of 220km a day at 65km/h speed max about 5 hours ride, and I am very very tired (not the bike) to keep the throttle at that position and not use brakes just coast (only brake regeneration no throttle off brake).
I am thinking now about a fast charge option but not the expensive 6kW charge tank, as I am not needing it all the time.
Is there a way to have an off bike 6kW charger like the DEltaQ 1kW just a 6kW so I could put it to my top case if I need 6kW+1kW charge power on longer trip, but don't have to carry all the time on my maximum 200km/day trips?
So some external 6kW at least for the auxilary charge plug and I could modify my custom Type2 cable of course to power both the external and inboard.
I think any aftermarket 6kW chargers could work as not need to activate the charge progress with the can-bus signal on the auxilary charger plug because the internal charger activates it and the 6kW external just works in parallel when battery pack relay is on and active...
maybe that could be the cheapest and best idea for a faster charging without bringing a charge tank all time.
Sehr geil gemacht! Manche sagen „over-engineered“, andere sagen „einfach genau richtig“. Sag mal, bist du so nett und verlinkst mal diesen coolen mini-Stecker nach „Militärstandard“?!
Hi Max, thanks for the video, looks like a very well engineered system. I have a couple of zero motorcycles that I have modified one of them is intended for purely off road use, I have removed the onboard charger and charge using a couple of delta Q units. The platform is based on the FXS and the wiring loom is almost identical to the SR. I am by no means knowledgeable in electronics but I have a question about the canbus, I see that you have some sort of module fitted to your bike to control the chargers I assume it communicates with the bms or mbb? My question is why is this needed since I know on my zero there is no canbus conection between the bike and zero approved delta Q charger, it simply has a positive, negative and enable wire which is an accessory pin in the stock anderson connector?
Hi mariryalen,
this little box purely serves as an interface between the chargers and the charging station. It will handle all the communication necessary to turn the station on and limit the chargers current draw to what the station is able to provide. Currently this interface doesn't communicate to the BMS, nor the MBB, but in the future I'd like to integrate at least the BMS.
Best electric regards
Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Thanks for explaining that, keep up the good work!
I know you have finished this project but at any point did you think of putting a chill plate between the controller and the existing heatsink so that you could reject the heat out of the back of the bike instead of under the tank. You could then run a powertank for additional range if you wanted to.
Hi Scott,
that sound like a pretty good and also sleek idea. On the other hand I'm not quite sure if this heatsink could reliably get rid of the heat.
Best electric regards
Max Jäger
Hello max great job great explanations. Do you plan produce some 3 to 10 kw charger kit ?! Would be great... Is the liquid cooling system absoluutely necessary ? 🙏👏👍💪👌
Hi Y from Mars,
I don't plan to produce any charger-kits.
The cooling system is necessary if you want a charging system that won't throttle due to overheating and also won't cook your battery. My cooling systems pretty much isolates the heat generated from the chargers from the battery pack, so it only heats up slowly and evenly due to its internal resistance.
But since you're asking, there was a system that featured the same chargers just without the cooling system, it's the Supercharger from former DigiNow. Unfortunately it didn't work reliable all the time because there were some isolation faults that messed with the CAN-BUS controls and the chargers also went into thermal throttling because of inappropriate cooling after a few minutes (also the hot chargers with 70°C+ heated the bottom of the battery and thereby decreased its longevety).
Best electric regards
Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Thanks a lot for you detailed answer. In fact I only search for an external 3300W charger to replace the onboard one when it will die and to have a quicker charging time when needed. And also thank you for precision about the DC/C model. Gzzz Gzz Regards, Y
to make good things better, that only can make good man ;-)
Hi! I plan to buy a 2021 Zero S 14.4 battery version.
Is there a way to add type 2 fast charging for it?
As I see there is a Charge tank modification option for 6kW charging, that would be also good, just have to make sure it can be added and accepts Type 2 public stations.
I already have for my current ebike a Type 2 -> Schucko adapter so I can use my slow 500W home charger with that and it works up to 16Amps at current resistor config so until 11kW, but with a resistor change can full type 2 AC be used like 22.5kw....
I have to achieve 250km range so need a stop for charging at public Type 2 station and charge in max 2 hours.
There is a way to make it but it will require some custom building. I did it on my Zero SR 2015. You can check some info in my channel, but most of the content is still done in Spanish ==> th-cam.com/video/TnVWUGMaurE/w-d-xo.html
Depending on what you plan to do with the charging options, you can either go for an aftermarket charging solution to charge faster (as Max did on his video) or you can use the same adapter you already have from your ebike to charge with the onboard charger at 1.3 kW, but it will charge slooow
@@DanielMonteroElectraveler thanks, I will search for custom chargers for sure, as I heard 6-11kW max can be acheived due to typ1-type2 conversion...
@@fotoamgamgfoto3695 in type 2 you are limited to a max of 22 kW in most stations. Type 1 can only charge at maximum 7.4 kW, so type 1 is not what you are looking for. In the video I shared there is a part where I explain how to build the diagram needed to connect to the charging station and how to wire from a type 2 to 3 independent schuko plugs. Then you can connect your chargers to the schukos and to the bike
@@DanielMonteroElectraveler sorry maybe I understood wrong, but Charge tank is te first thing I can put on my Zero S and it has american Type1 plug, if I add a type 1- type 2 converter stil have 1 phase as type 1 will be the input for teh charge tank and limited to 6-7.4kw around. Of course I could rewire things but will need more confidence and infos to dig first,
I will check your video than for diagram, thank you!
So this is all because it needs to convert moderate AC to DC?
Yes, even though it would work* without whole the cooling system.
But there is also some typical German over-engineering involved (easy expansion of the cooling system for motor and/or controller cooling).
*It would, but only for some minutes since the chargers will overheat pretty quickly and go into thermal throttling or shut off completely.
Best electric regards
Max Jäger
Yep, my digiNow system overheats after 20-25 minutes of charging at 10kW and shuts down completely until it cools down enough to slowly ramp up to 4-5kW or so
Meinst du nicht das die Haltbarkeit durch das schnelle Laden drastisch reduziert wird Max ?
Moin @ungeimpfter460,
natürlich reduziert jede Steigerung der Ladeleistung die Langlebigkeit des Akkus.
Man muss hier allerdings klar festhalten, dass diese Mehrbelastung für den Akku nur marginal ausfällt.
So bleibe ich, trotz der deutlich gestiegenen Ladeleistung von 1,2kW auf 9,9kW, auch weiterhin unter der Grenze von 1C. Erst ab diesem Wert, respektive ca. 12kW Ladeleistung, wird ein nicht für Schnellladungen konzipierter Akku übermäßig belastet.
Außerdem ist aufgrund des deutlich reduzierten Wärmeeintrags von den Ladegeräten eher mit einer unveränderten bzw. leichten Verbesserung der Langlebigkeit des Akkus zu rechnen.
Mit elektrischen Grüßen
Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Danke Max für deine ausführliche Schilderung. Das klingt schon mal sehr sehr gut. 😇
Insgesamt dürfte aufgrund deines Umbaus aber locker 10-15kg Mehrgewicht hinzugekommen sein oder? Würdest du bei vorhandenen Chargetank diesen mit verwenden? Oder eher ausbauen? Defekte wie beim onboard Lader sind jedenfalls wenige bekannt. Mir zumindest und in Foren liest man diesbezüglich auch nichts. Vlt mal in amerikanischen Foren lesen.
@@Max_Jaeger ach und bietest du entsprechend so einen Umbau aus Hobby und eigene Gefahr an? Wird zumindest erstmal schwierig an Otten Lader zu kommen tc hat wohl seine Lader geändert 😕
@@Max_Jaeger und kann man dich noch fragen ob du der Meinung bist das man den kleinen 7,2er Akku ebenfalls schnell laden kann ohne ihn zu schädigen? Dann halt nur 5kw maximal statt 10kw. Und nimmt sich zwischen dem großen und dem kleinen viel bezüglich Haltbarkeit?
@@ungeimpfter460
1. Ja
2. Ja
3. Wenn du mit dem kleineren Akku ähnliche Fahrleistungen erreichen möchtest wie mit dem großen, dann wird dieser zwangsläufig (Ladezyklen) stärker beansprucht. Ansonsten sollte auch der kleine Akku bei entsprechender Pflege sehr lange halten.
Sehr geil gemacht! Manche sagen „over-engineered“, andere sagen „einfach genau richtig“. Sag mal, bist du so nett und verlinkst mal diesen coolen mini-Stecker nach „Militärstandard“?!
Moin Krischi83,
anbei findest du den Link zu "einem" Stecker, bitte beachte aber das es mehrere Ausführungen gibt und die Crimpkontakte separat bestellt werden müssen. Der Katalog von SOURIAU ist hierfür sehr hilfreich.
www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Souriau/UTS1GJC147P?qs=%2Fha2pyFadujO4jdFhs6O9MMrJ3M0qQJjfOvkOo2nsHOhbFTqJX5S6w%3D%3D
Mit elektrischen Grüßen
Max Jäger
@@Max_Jaeger Danke dir! Der Stecker ist ja mega geil! 16 A Scheinen ja überhaupt kein Thema zu sein und die Größe ist ja perfekt für’s „Moped“ :) ich forste mich da grad durch und bin mir etwas unsicher, welche Teile ich benötige. Hast du evtl. noch die Teilenummern aller benötigten Teile? Inkl. der Crimpkontakte?