Unquestionably. Bullets for other calibers need to perform over a huge range of velocities and ranges, with the .303 and 30-30 the bullets can be designed for a single round, and ranges can generally be assumed to be fairly short.
As a Canadian I can attest those 303 hot core 150s work great. Used them on moose as well and they go nowhere. Loving this build can't wait for the next episode!
I can listen to your conversations for hours. Thank you for talking about and bring out the 303 British. If all these new hunters would listen to some common sense conversations and see what hunting deer and other big game has been done with before now… for many years and not believe the hype over all the new calibres that promise you the world I would not be finding bloated carcasses almost every time I go into the woods.
i too can listen to him for hours , only just found the channel but its like your sittin with a knowledgable mate chin waggin away , , i love his style and delivery , it sinks in , not one of those "this is how it goes channels" , he talks it all thru , cheers bra
Cfe 223 and hornady 150gn interlock have worked great in all my 303s. Thanks for all the videos on 303. As it's a dying caliber and one that shouldn't be forgotten.
Here in Australia I load the locally made Woodleigh 174 gr bullets, which are excellent performers on game. Their factory is back in production after a disastrous fire, so should be again available in the US in the future.
Sounds right. The cartridge - when converted to smokeless, not the original black powder load - was a 174 grain bullet, so that seems reasonable to use. I presume the Woodleigh product is a soft point expanding sort. I have used some Woodleigh bullets in the past - cannot remember what cartridge. I remember them as well made but a bit expensive here in the U. S. Obviously I had to pay for shipping one way or another. I didn't know about the fire. I am glad they are still striving to do well.
Cannuck here, haved owned and used 303 for 50 years and have friends who use them as well. Have seen deer, elk, moose, caribou, black and Grizzly bear taken by the 303 and 80 percent of them dropped on the spot. The rest didn't move very far.
Honestly, as smooth and reliable as the Lee Enfield action is, I can't believe it hasn't been patterned and adapted for different calibers and newer rifle designs. Not only do I think it would serve as a good building platform, it would be another good (and potentially cheaper) option for a smooth action within the hunting rifle market in general, and it would also help to assure the .303 British round stays alive. I think .303 has a lot of merits and it would be a shame if it ever faded away. Both the round and the action. As far as the .303 round itself, speed is great for achieving long distance terminal performance, but there's a lot to be said about the extreme efficacy of a slower moving, heavier bullet too. Under 300 yds, it can often be the better option. The sheer number of large game animals it has quickly and effectively dispatched over the years is proof enough of its capabilities. Regardless, these videos are giving me .303 British/Lee Enfield fever. Keep 'em coming! Cheers from Canada. 🇨🇦
Thanks Tom for bringing to light that a 303 is an excellent choice but still underrated. From South Africa. Ps. I love that sound of the diesel loco horn, quite rare in SA at the moment.
A lot of marketing of bullets makes great emphasis on long range. It allows fabricants to come up with new designs and a large array of bullet choices, some very technically advanced and expensive. However, most deer is shot at less than 250 yards, and much less in eastern America. Then bullet construction is not so crucial. At those distances bullets still have their speed and energy and good placement is lethal. All too often, hunters use over-designed and overpriced bullets that are meant for long range and do not do well at shorter ranges. Keep it simple. Your comments on the efficiency of the .303 pretty well come back to that. Quite appropriate for Simple Living to make that point. Thank you Tom. Love your channel.
20 years ago I sold a 7mm08 Blaser and had a BSA .303 P14 custom made, shooting 150 grain Sierra bullets, and never looked back. The all round terminal ballistic performance out to 300 meters is exceptional. For years my .303 has consistently out performed my .308 Remington Model 7 shooting a similar 150 grain Sierra bullet. Just like the 250-3000 Savage the.303 has the "X" factor when it comes to terminal ballistics. SAAMI and marketing has been the only handbrake on these classic cartridges.
My first rifle was a 303 British Australian Mark4, bought out of a barrel of them at the local hardware store for $8.88. I was 14. It took until I was 32 years old to decide I needed a “modern” rifle. The old 303 took deer and moose no issue ever. 174 grain bullets, but also used 150’s and 215’s.
Super video Tom. This is perfect for me as I am going through exactly the same process as yourself but with the Courtney Hunter. (when I eventually get it). I cannot get the Speer Hot Cores in my country (UK). But have stocked up on Hornady 150 grain Interlock Spire Points as my bullet of choice. I also have a few 174 Hornady Round nose just to try out too. Fantastic videos as always Tom. Keep posting!.
Uberti is currently manufacturing the Courteney stalking rifle, a falling block action in .303. It is the only production .303 I'm aware of at this time.
I saw it mentioned someplace and went online to maybe (?) buy one, but then I saw the price tag. Sticker-shock! Yikes! I could buy a used pick-up truck for less than that single-shot from Uberti.
My brother in law has one. Its a very nice rifle and shoots really good. The color case hardening is bright vibrant and his had a lot of blue/ purple in it. The wood has nice lines in it.
Thanks Tom. For helping me understand this cartridge. I have recently, restored and re-barreled historical rifles in this caliber on the back of some of your content. Also 100% practical caliber, and a pleasure to shoot. I appreciate the time you take to make these videos.
I agree completely that it is the bullet, not the cartridge, started white tails with a 30-30 150 gr., worked fine, stepped up to a .280 Rem, 140 core lokt worked fine, but the deer ran a tad further, started handloading, had a 140 gr partition grenade on a big bodied 7 point at 30 yards broadside, second shot between the shoulders at bottom of neck stoned him, gave up on the partitions and went to Barnes X..... several seasons later in KS drifting timber one of my buds shot a button buck at less than 30 yds ( I was a75-80 yards away) with a 150 grain partition (factory Federal) it grenaded....tracked it almost 150 yards, it was curled up at the base of a cedar, still lively until I sent a 140 Barnes X tunneling through him. I have shot a bunch of KS. and MO. white tails with the 140X, never had one go over 30 yards, most just drop....
Thanks for sharing that Allen. I have never heard of a Partition blowing up before. I know they have a soft front section but usually that shank keeps on driving through. I'm wondering if maybe Nosler hasn't been messing with them in a bad way? And I haven't tried any of the Barnes bullets yet but you aren't the first one I've heard say great things about them. Oh, and I think you might like the video coming out this Sunday? It's on the 280.
Remington used to make a real moose and bear stomping 215 grain load for the 303 Brit. And CIL made a 180 grain sabre tip aka ballistic tip. Both were awesome rounds but the 215 grain was something else on the really big game.
I picked up a Lee-Enfield bout a year ago. Only fired it a handful of times so far. Just loaded some test rounds using .311" 150gr Sierras and Ramshot Tac. Thanks, Tom! Choo-choo!
Cut my teeth on hunting all through the 70s with a 303 Brit. 180 gr. Silver tips and Remington round nose. Moose, elk and deer never lost one, 303 won’t drop them like hit by lightning but they will drop typically from 5-75 yards. I still have two 303 in the locker, one shorter and one original WW1 Mk3. 🇨🇦
Powder. 303 has been around since pre smokeless. Late 1800's. Cordite was the British military propellant. The initial smokeless powder was 303#1》》》aka 3031. I'm in Kanada. Old Ross rifles, dozens of different Lee Enfield models, and Enfield bolts, pattern 14. P14 Enfield are a very strong action, many converted to African calibers.
As far as bullet shape,there is a reason why the big African stopping rifles mostly use round nose bullets,as you noted,they transfer the energy and shock better than spire point bullets.But and interesting note here,I saw a video not to long back of a ph talking about bullet shape,and he noted how the flat point bullets are doing even better.Im sorry I can't remember his name,but he is highly experienced and runs a school to teach other professional hunters.His observation is that the flat points are delivering a better transfer and the animals react even quicker to being shot.The bigger the meplat,the more shock and energy being delivered to the target,which makes sense to me.Great video,enjoyed it,keep up the good work.I look forward to your videos each Sunday.
Right on. My Dad and his buddies used Lee Enfields in the 60's and 70's before it became too built up in the area they hunted and it went to Shotguns only. The .303 Lee Enfield was and is a great Rifle.
I've never lost a deer with the 30-06, but using most 180 grain bullets their response to being hit is often pretty minimal. Sometimes difficult to tell if you've hit the deer without a fair bit of tracking, and if you're usually hunting on bare ground I could see that making things a bit tricky.
As i see it every thing you said is totally true. Its really hard to top those round nose corelokts for dropping animals in their tracks. I think the only thing that ever came close was the old winchester silver tips. The 30-06 story you told is very similar to my own. I was shooting hotloads of hard bullets and shot a little buck at 50 yards it ran about 25 yards and started munching acorns again. I really got down on it at 75 yards and shot it again and it ran on down the side of the ridge and crashed about 50 yards from where i hit it the second time. When i got to the deer that was now almost 200 yards from my stand it had two enterance and exits both about the same size and could be covered by a 50 cent piece. I learned real fast that 130 grain hot 30-06 just wasnt something i wanted to hunt deer with. I traded that gun soon after because i lost faith in it. It wasnt the guns fault it was just my uneducated choice of ammo. Had i been using 165 grain corelokts i would most likely still own that rifle.
Hello Tom, It was a great time to watch this video and listen to the anecdotes and your thoughts. Have to say, this really shows how bullets have changed over the years...but in 308, 30-06 or 303 Brit, a heavy round nose has been a heavy round nose...at least in my use :) As in great haha.
I hunt with a Ruger #1 in 303. I used a Lee Enfield before that. Years back, you could not find 303 projectiles here, so I got set up and began swaging my own .312” bullets. I used sized down 223 Rem casings for my jackets and cast lead cores which I solder bond in with a propane torch. They have shot moose, elk, bear and deer. Sadly, I have never recovered a bullet from an animal and even searching the area with a metal detector have had no success. Ballistically, 30-06, 270 and 308 are superior to the 303. That said, I agree with the idea that sticking with a winning combo of ammo and rifle gets the game on the ground.👍🏻
In response to a couple of fellas who got sidetracked by wound channel size-- Tom didn't get bogged down in wound channel- we all know about big holes, shoot thru etc,. His talk is really about the "X factor" which many gun writers have tried to nail down as "stopping power" but which is an elusive effect that not all cartridges have. All .30cal bores can develop some combination that will approximate "X factor" on deer and non-dangerous game. Several thousandths of an inch diameter are not "X factor" nor is velocity by itself adequate. It is a combination that results in a rapid mortality. If big holes was the explanation 12ga foster slugs would always result in an instant kill- they don't...because they lack velocity. It is some alchemy of velocity, shape, weight, assuming identical placement. .303 has some magic left...
@@johnnorman7708 I guess we can call it whatever we want because its so elusive as a demonstrable correlation. If it was only as simple as say ballistic coefficient we'd find those always perfect combos and we'd stop chasing the "Pot o-gold"!
@@Leif1963 If you study terminal ballistics long enough you will see trends being reported often enough to know they aren't all just anecdotal wives tales. Anecdotal yes, but it is the fire and smoke thing. Too many reports to dismiss. So "X" factor it is.
@@johnnorman7708 I agree not anecdotal just very difficult to quantify. I have seen big deer go down like they were poleaxed and little deer with a major hit run farther than we would expect. I did hear one writer quote a forensics expert that if a bullet hits between heart beats it can hasten death by a magnitude. Some sense in that- impossible to replicate physically- would be interesting to see if an algorithim could crunch good data and home in on the "X factor". Mass, velocity, surface area, core construction- such a fascinating question. I'm doing field testing in 10days! :>)
@@Leif1963 That heart beat position thing sounds scientifically plausible. I have heard of that theory elsewhere. Forensic pathology is one deep subject.
Having been a Hunter, reloader and rifle dealer for 60+ years I think the 30-06 has killed more for me too but it could be different for someone else depending on where they live to so I think we are both right but I still prefer the 30-06🤔😳
@@edwardabrams4972Carried the 30-06 for years and have switched to the.303. The 30-06 has a little more range then the .303 but the .303 will kill better at 200 250 yards.
I just purchased 200 Speer hotcore 150grain and a Lee 303 die set for a brother and friend. I have no use and experience with the 303 British. The 270 is a different matter . I agree most 130 gr. 270 Bullets are too soft. Elmer Keith said the 270 is a good varmit cartridge but not for much else. Jim Carmichael hated the 270 but the 280 Remington was his favorite deer cartridge. I love the 270. Had many instant kills drop in tracks
Great video, I’ve been trying to tell the younger folk exactly what you have explained in this video. On another note I’ve just purchased a Ruger No1 in 303 British that was part of a collection and has remained unfired, I just today bought both bullet weights in Speer hot core for it plus I also use the 140 grain hot core in my 6.5 x 55.
Yep. If the 303 ever gets popular again, cartridge makers will start seating all kinds of bullets for it and ruin the 303 reputation. They did this in part back in the 70s when they loaded a bullet for them with a teflon-nylon tip. The tip to this spitzer style bullet was white and hard. It's selling point was that it would not deform in magazines and actions. ( They would also pass completely through a deer with two same caliber holes both sides.) Being a teen back then and not really knowing anything about bullets, I blamed the 303 for being a 303 and sold my rifle. Like I say I was a teen and did not know better. So if ever the 303 gets popular again and all kinds of fancy bullets come out for it, I'll know not to blame the cartridge. Thanks for the great topic.
I don't know if they would be legal to use in warfare. The enemy might complain that you are using expanding bullets. But, I don't know for certain, I am just thinking of the ammunition made Dum-Dum.
Hello Tom River. Good video with good common sense. The brit rifle uses a bigger bullet (.3125) caliber, whereas the .30 calibers use a .308 size bullet. Wider bullet makes bigger hole. Round nose or flat nose bullets are better game getters than pointed bullets because they expand better. Bigger hole means more blood loss. More blood loss means a dead animal instead of a wounded animal. {Why cannot people understand that?} P.S. Funny stuff when the train whistle/horn blew. Yours sounded just like the coal & heavy freight train that pulls through at least twice and sometimes 4 times per day, usually about 2 A.M. where I live in snow country. I live about 150 yards or so from the train track. I thought it was my train until you mentioned it. 😊
Another Canadian here, and when I was a kid 50 years ago you could buy milsurp Lee Enfields for next to nothing. My dad had 3 or 4 and so did his hunting buddies. Anyway looking around on midwayusa i see there are also Sierra Pro Hunter 150 and 180 gr bullets but they are out of stock, and are also more expensive than these Speer bullets. Edit to add: beautiful gun BTW.
Been hunting for 52 years. Deer and elk in AZ, UT and CO. For deer its been 30-06 with 165gr Sierra BT and 270 with 140 Hornady SST, 140 Sierra, Hornady 143 ELD-X and Federal Fusion 150gr. Dozens of deer hit and equal dozens dead and recovered without the need to track. I guess its your bad luck or that Sierra, Hornady and Federal Fusion make bullets that work on deer for the 30 and 270 calibers.
Thanks for an interesting video. Almost 20 years ago I was obsessed in finding the caliber that would put down roe deer immediately with a double lung shot. And I found it 😵💫in the 340 Weatherby with handloaded Hornady RN 250's at 2850 fps. That deer fawn had an exit wound the size of a crater and all the ribs where broken next to the spine from the extreme shock that bullet created. I will not be trying that again although it was very effective to say the least. I then switched to A-Frame 250 and shot a roe buck with it. Now there was no excess at all actually and the effect was basically the same as it would have been with a 308. So although my hunting experience is not as extensive as yours, I can attest to the fact that bullet selection is very very important. Many times people discard a certain caliber cause they had some bad experiences with it, when in fact they may just have been using an unsuitable bullet for the task. The same is true in the opposite direction as you well point out: a caliber such as 303 British can reach heroic status since it almost makes it impossible to choose the wrong bullet. Btw, I am also a big fan of Nathan 🙂 Greetings from Sweden.
Thanks Nordic Rifleman, and ironically enough I was just watching one of you videos earlier. I love that No1 in 7x57 you were shooting. I was trying to decide for several years whether to get my No1A in 303 British or 7x57. I finally decided on the 303 because there really aren't any other choices in a modern rifle for 303 but I still love that rifle you have in 7x57! And I had to laugh at the end of your video when you had to wait to go over the shot group because of someone else. I've lost count of how many times I've had to wait to go over results because of other people showing up at the range. I think that's something only another TH-camr can truly appreciate.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thanks for your comment 🙂 My range is usually very quiet but this was the one exception 😁 Sadly I sold that Ruger 😢 We are only allowed to have a total of six hunting rifles and/or shotguns combined for hunting in Sweden. It’s beyond sad. Suppressors don’t require any paperwork and can be bought over the counter or on the internet, but then we have this stupid restriction. In August AR’s became allowed for hunting for the first time. I am not interested in those at all for hunting but they are selling ‘em like crazy over here now. Many people trade in prized rifles to buy AR’s, so the used gun market is getting new interesting stuff now. The used gun market is pretty good overall over here due to the six rifle/shotgun restriction, but now it’s even better when people are rushing to get AR’s. Let’s see what I end up with. Think I need to seriously think about what my six rifles shall be, but it’s a bit hard/impossible for me as I have had around 150 different rifles in the last 20 years 😳 Definitely need a Ruger No 1. Maybe a Remington Seven CDL. And some other stuff. But I need to hang into my dad’s old Sako Finnbear 30-06 and my Sako 6,5x55. Probably the Sako 222 also or if I trade it for an American 222 or similar. Sorry for the lengthy reply 😬 I just wanted to add some information about the gun situation in Sweden. Will continue watching your excellent videos. Really like this format listening to someone who has a lot of experience. And I love your dialect/accent 😀👍🏻
The 303 mk7 has a full metal jacket , however the front 1/3 rd isnt filled with lead so the bullet is base heavy . So on impact the bullet turns causing a larger wound
If the bullet stops in a animal it absorbs all the energy, it dies. The 303 has killed more game in Canada then any other cartridge. Reason being is after the war 303 showed up by the truck load going for 5 dollars a gun. Prior to that the 1895 Winchester was available in 303. Second place in Canada would be the 30 30 Winchester which makes it first place in North America because of age and being number 1 in the USA!
My experience definitely matches yours when it comes to meplat. My only two DRTs with deer have been with my .270 using Federal 150 gr Nontypical, a round nose soft point design. Besides those, I've taken deer with Spitzer type 130 and 140 gr Hornady bullets in my .270, all-copper 110 gr Barnes Tac-TX in .300 Blackout (supersonic ~2400 fps), and a soft-nose 240 gr bullet from a .44 Magnum handgun. All my deer other than those two with rifles went 30-40 yards before laying down, which is fine, but I was surprised I never got a DRT even with almost identical placement. The revolver kill was a long 140 yard tracking job, but a buddy kicked it up from where he bedded down 30 yards away after the shot. Those wide-meplat rifle bullets really put game down with authority. Unfortunately, no one seems to make component .277 bullets in that profile. Overall that nose profile seems much less popular these days in favor of the extended long range, super-high-BC bullets. It's a shame. Not all of us want to go hunting at 4-, 5-, 600 yards. Some of us just want to shoot a deer 60 yards and see it drop on the spot without having to chase it through brambly thickets.
thanks for the great video!! it’s nice ( but rare) to see someone make a video about what just “gets it done” instead of what looks so awesome on paper but suffers in “real world performance”
just found your channel ,,really enjoying your presentations and delivery , everyone has a 303 in ozzi ( gettin tired now ) as a kid in the 70's you went from 22 lr to a winchester 32-20, you desired a 44-40 and moved up when you could , there was stupid ammo laws in the 1950's that meant most 303 were altered to sporters and 303 -25 a bit like win 270 , there were some conversion to 303-270 as well , laws changed and normal 303 came good some shot out 303 are now 303-35 but most of our rifling shops are gone from the UN laws that were implemented , farmers with doe usually had a win model 70 , dont recall what caliber though ,,, kangaroo shooters used 222 bolt actions ,young guys with doe would get a 94 win 30-30 ,, that was the norm from the 1940's thru to the 1980's , now we have everything like you guys but dirty laws following the UN agenda , cheers from down under
Taking people on hunts, I've seen all these rounds do exactly the same thing. The magic is indeed in the bullet selection and most importantly shot placement.
A friend jumped on several boxes of the then brand new Federal Premium with Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet. He shot at 3 deer with no recovery in one afternoon. Thinking he was missing, he tested on paper and was dead on. The vultures revealed the deer locations. I had a similar problem with the 270 Failsafe bullet and 300 yard tracking. These bullets worked like solids in deer-sized game. Not understanding then, I got rid of the rifle thinking that’s how 270s work. Regrettable.
Agree it is about correct bullet selection. Manufacturers used to (or at leas they used to) note the velocity range on the box within which the bullet was designed to perform properly. E.g. this bullet is designed to expand at impact ranges from 1,600 to 2,400 fps. Also agree on Hot-Cor bullets. They are relatively cheap but have always performed very well in my own experience. Why pay for more for the same performance?
You may already know this, but those Deer Season XP from Winchester have a flat meplat, under that tip that they added for a better BC. They are made for deer ... I haven't tried them - I was debating whether to do so, but I am sweet on the Nosler Accubond
Hello from New Zealand Tom. Great score getting the No1 in 303! I remember reading in a Rod and Rifle magazine here in NZ years ago where the author was trying out a No1 in 303, and he was quite surprised that Ruger had cut the chamber dimensions the same as the Lee Enfield which he was a bit critical of as he thought they should have cut it tighter as obviously not being used in a battle type situation with dirty ammo which Enfields are famous for. I've reloaded 303 for years now and only partial size the brass which seems to help its lifespan, but find the necks give up first (crack). I make one load for all 3 I have, chopped SMLE with a Westley Richards bbl, Parker Hale No4 sporter, and mint Longbranch No4. Use Hornady 150 SP .312. Something to think about perhaps if you are going to load a little hotter? Cheers.
It may have been the barrel diameter, but I still think it was the chamber? Might see if I can find the article. Possibly magazine is in storage.......?
1. Start with quality unprimed brass. Privy Partisan is the closest to military ball that I've found after mic'ing cases. Rim and head dimensions are almost identical to WWII Canadian ball and Greek HXP ball from circa 1982. 2. Use a .33 Lyman case neck expander die to expand the necks well above bullet diameter, then neck back down to .303 neck size in small increments until the empty case will just barely chamber with a crush fit on bolt closure. Now you have a case where the false shoulder is headspacing the new case on the shoulder instead of the rim. What stretch you will have will be radially outwards, not having cases stretching in length that will lead to case separations and necks splitting. 3. After firing, use either neck sizing or partial full length sizing to return to a crush fit. Best of all, the Lee Collet Die... one Lee product that is head and shoulders above other choices particularly for this caliber. That will solve your case lifetime problems. Given the differences in chambers in various rifles, you need to have dedicated brass and resizing criteria for each rifle.
I have a question. Using a handload 308 win cartridge or a 30-06 cartridge loaded with a 180 grain round nose 30 cal. bullet, say a 30 cal. 180 gr RN hot-core bullet, loaded to 303 brit standard velocity for the 180 gr 303 bullet so to duplicate bullet and velocity of the 303 brit in these two 30 cals, will the effect on game be similar or identical as you indicate the 303 brit 180 grain cartridge is on whitetails? Or in other words, will the 308 and the 30-06 loaded to 303 brit velocities all with 180 gr RN hot core bullets and the 303 brit with same bullet and velocity have the same effect on deer? ( I guess that's two questions.)
Is falling block really inherently stronger of an action than bolt action??? I personally think they probably both could be built up or down to meet needs. They seem pretty evenly matched?
Your half right! Shot placement and bullet construction are the 2 main factors in knockdown success! I might know my father was reloading John Noslers Partitons when they very first came out and have seen the difference when taking game but especially big game like elk and my 60+ years has proved this on hundreds of game animals!
@@edwardabrams4972 And I've been hunting even longer and I've probably seen more game animals taken with Speer Hot-Cor bullets than Partitions. They're both fine bullets. As are the Barnes X. As are many, many other bullet designs.
Any of those .30 calibers in a Swift A Frame, or Nosler Partition, with a good shot, bang flop. 150, 165, 180 grains take your pick. If someday we must go lead free, that Barnes TSX is the copper answer to the A Frame or Partition.
Now that you mention round nose bullets, it makes sense. 30-30s are known for being great for deer. Also the 6.5X55 Swede in 160 grain round nose is supposed to be a great moose round, although I have not used that round. They make round nose bullets for the .30-06 also. Probably the .308 as well. Bullet selection, and bullet placement are key. These are not for long range shots.
The 257 Roberts was also a round nose for the heavier bullets, and honestly I hadn't even thought of all of those great cartridges commonly having a round nose bullet until you mentioned it John, thanks for that! And I do agree on the Partition being an outstanding bullet but dang those things have really gotten expensive lately!
They built at least 20 or 30 Million of the Lee-Enfield rifles. All chambered for .303 British. And all over the World these "Surplus" rifles have been killing game for about 60+ years! In Canada my mom's family kill Elk, Caribou and even Moose with them!!!
I suspect .303 is a lot like .30-30. Velocity is moderate enough with the heavier bullets that they do expand adequately but are not fast enough to over expand even at close range. You run out of velocity before you run out of bullet.
The 303 British in North America was mostly a Canadian thing. Lots of surplus bolt action army rifles easily acquired. The Canadian Rangers, a military sub group of mostly First Nations members living in the remote far northern provinces still carry them for polar bear protection. For all practical purposes that caliber should have changed decades ago but Canada is Canada. The guns see rough handling so a military weapon makes sense. They use iron sights. In 50 years in Alaska I've never seen anyone, White or Native carrying one. I shot a lot of whitetails as a kid and mostly we shot 30/30s, 300 Savages and a few .308s and nobody had any trouble killing them. Guns are interesting & fun but spending time with the 303 unless somebody willed one to you seems like a lot of wasted motion.
Tom, the 303 British , is not more Effective than the other calibers, because even though you say that, you also say The other calibers will do the same , with the right bullet. Yes, the right bullet matters. Remington, and Winchester had this figured out along time ago. So if One wants 303 cal , type Results in a 3006cal, then go with the heaviest Win Power Point , factory ammo, or maby 220 grn Core Lokt. The Magic Formula is Bullet type and Speed, obviously. Nathen, of Terminal Ballistics is spot on. I personally have discovered, the 6.5x55 gives the biggest entrance and exit hole, using PPU PRIVI 139 grn SP, due to massive lead tip exposure. Jacked up Factory load, 6.5x55 SE. , Sellor and Bellot 131 grn barely makes an entrance and exit hole.
I Frankly do not think the .303 British cartridge is more effective than the alternates. However, I cannot claim it is any less, either. The various rifles used for hunting may may a difference, but the cartridge by itself is well within the same class of cartridge.
The .303 British cartridge uses a bigger (wider) bullet than the .308 calibers. It is NOT .303 caliber but is actually a .3125 caliber bullet. Wider bullet makes a bigger hole. Good idea to buy/borrow/get a Lee or a Lyman printed reloading manual.
@@gusloader123 Yes. Just for the tally book, the bullets for .303 Brit is listed as .311". I'm not going to quibble that. However, the frontal ares of a bullet is ".5 R multiplied by Pi squared". That makes the frontal area of a .3125 projectile is 1.542 square inches (and a few more decimal points but this is likely as accurate as it's going to get). The frontal area of a .308 bullet (the U. S. idea of .30 caliber) is 1.519 square inches. Frontal area of a 7mm bullet is 1.894 square inches. So the .303 bullet is .023 square inches larger than the .30 caliber bullet. The .303 bullet is .352 square inches larger. And this means, what? Look at the evidence. What statistical evidence that the larger diameter bullet ( and the lower velocity with attendant lower energy) is more efficient or effective in killing any particular game animal, presuming equivalent shot placement? Similarly, statistical evidence that the larger diameter bullet ( and the lower velocity with attendant lower momentum) is more efficient or effective in killing any particular game animal, presuming equivalent shot placement? Being in my eighth decade and having studied terminal ballistics and listened to older hunters most of my life, I do not see a difference. I will also point out some individual rifles shoot better than others. That should not be considered in this discussion. One's personal choices and why are very individual. So my purpose is not to convince anyone else 'this' one is better than 'that' one. Also just for the tally book, I have rifles of all three calibers discussed here. In my mind, all three calibers are suited to take game the size of deer.
Hmm. I seem to have lost track of my thought process. The cat does indeed interrupt me at times. Diameter of "30 caliber" bullet is .308". Diameter of "7mm" bullet is .284". Diameter of ".303" bullet is .311" Formula for frontal area - forward ''surface' area is pi (301416...) multiplied by r(adius) squared. So, the 30 caliber bullet is .074 square inches. The "7mm" bullet is .063 square inches. The ".303" bullet is .076 square inches. Okay, I'm not sure where I ventured off course, but I did. Still not much of a difference. One has to also consider velocity of the bullet at impact (not muzzle velocity), bullet weight and effect of bullet (expanding bullet is likely to be more effect than non-expanding). Now, I really do not know how to calculate a number based on that information giving a 'take to the bank' answer. Nor have I heard of such. My conclusion is still the assertion of .303 being 'superior' cannot be established. Many deer have been taken with the .30-30 cartridge; not a real power house. I would not scoff at a .303 (I have five, three Lee-Enfields of varying eras, a P-14 and a Ruger No. 1. I also have several other rifles, larger and smaller.
@@OldManMontgomery Well said. I also have a .303 Lee-Enfield and a Stevens bolt-action, box-magazine fed, .30-30. They are still doing the job. Your numbers / arithmetic is good.
The .303 more effective then the .308 or 06 etc? This is overblown hype. The.303 with good bullets indeed is fully adequate for our big game and many African species have been successfully slain. The Lee Enfield is a very rugged rifle, one of the main reasons it was issued to Canadian Northern rangers and that it was a Rifle issued in the common wealth to their soldiers and imported also in huge numbers in Canada. Canada also for long time manufactured hunting loads in this caliber. However most Lee Enfield converted to hunting rifles are far from accurate and are reliable out to 150 yards max. The rifle is heavy and handles like a boat anchor. I take aTikka .308 or 06 or .270 any time over a .303 clunker.
You're mostly right. But claiming the Lee Enfield/.303 British is only reliable out to 150 yards is another way of saying you've never been to a match at Connaught/Bisley, etc where they compete with those rifles at three times that distance without a scope. I have enjoyed using my 1950 Long Branch for over half a century now and it handles very very, well. But you can say those things and at the same time acknowledge that while it is perfectly adequate, purpose made rifles for none military use can be better for most.
Energy doesn't just cease to exist. If the bullet didn't exit the deer absorbed it. However, you absorbed more energy than the deer and are presumably still alive so perhaps the basic question is somewhat flawed. I hunt with a flintlock sometimes with my longest shot being 120 yd. Likely less than 300 fp with round ball. It was completely sufficient.
@@gk5891 what is there to absorb? Energy is the measurement of the force that the projectile puts on the medium. As the bullet slows down, the energy measurement decreases it isn't leaving energy behind along the way as it is developing friction from pushing through the air. And when the bullet disintegrates and stops inside, it doesn't "dump" anything called energy inside. The resistance of the animal and the disintegration of the bullet stopped the bullets travel and the measurement of the force against the animal just decreased or dissipated as the bullet fragments came to a stop. The ft lbs of energy is only a measurement of the force that the bullet is exerting on the flesh, nothing more.
@@fedup3582 It's basic physics. Energy can't be destroyed. No difference in how much energy is transfered between 1,800 particles 0.1 gr each and 1 particle that weighs 180 gr assuming they don't exit. The same energy transfer. The question of lethality is an entirely different question.
@@gk5891 if a fracturing bullet impacts an animal with 2000 ft lb of energy but disintegrates and stops half way through, then that means that the bullet was impacting the flesh with 1000 ft lbs of energy one quarter of the way through, and by half way through, it has stopped and is applying zero ft lbs of energy to the flesh. If you used a controlled expansion bullet that acheives full penetration, impacting with 2000 ft lbs of energy and exiting with 1000 ft lbs of energy, that means that it was impacting the flesh with 1750 ft lbs on energy a quarter of the way in, vs 1000 ft lbs of energy from the fracturing bullet, and it is impacting the flesh with 1500 ft lbs of energy half way through, vs the fracturing bullets zero ft lbs of energy. At 3/4's the way through, the controlled expansion bullet is still impacting the flesh with 1250 ft lbs of energy, continuing on impacting flesh and exiting with 1000 ft lbs of energy. It has created a large wound cavity all the way through and out the other side, applying much more energy to the animal all the way through. The fracturing bullet, came apart, lost its momentum and stopped due to the resistance. It did not "dump" it's energy, the energy measurement reduced as the bullet particles came to a stop. The controlled expansion bullet, due to its design, retained its momentum, and continued to rip a large wound channel all the way through, it also did not "dump" any energy, it continued to apply force all the way through disrupting tissue and causing internal bleeding all the way through and provided two holes where the animal could bleed out, as opposed to the fracturing bullet only disrupting tissue to half way through and leaving only a small entrance wound to bleed out of. The ft lbs of energy is just a measurement of the force the bullet applies to the resistance of the flesh. The friction on impacting slows the projectile and as it does, the measurement reduces. It does not "dump".
Your sophomoric question was already answered in the video. 180 bullets from a .303 British don't come apart and they for damn sure don't grenade for the same reason that 170's out of a .30-30 generally don't come apart or "grenade."
7.62x54r is also .312 so they consolidated the projectiles, and they are basically the same speed as the .303 so they will be likely to work well in both like you said vs the .308 diameter
It's actually very nice having that selection of 303 bullets. The .310-.312 doesn't have a wide selection but Sierra makes 303 specific bullets which I use when I reload my 7.62x54r. I believe 7.7 jap is also .312 but it might be another japanese cartridge that is.
@@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649 Go grab a pair of calipers and a reloading manual and measure the bullet diameter for the Russian 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r they measure out to between .310- .312. just because it's "7.62" doesn't mean it's .308.
@@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649 no .308 is 7.82mm.. 😊 (.30 is 7.62) Look at Lapua bullets. There are 7.62 for .30 cal and there are 7.62 for 7.62x/. (.310/.311). There are loaded ammunition for 7.62x53 with both .308 and .311 bullets to confuse things..
If you are using a 30-06 or a . 308 win in the smaller whitetail deer you need to go with 150gr bullets and they will drop in their tracks. If you handload you can choose from many bullets. The Hornady interlock bullets are great for deer with 150 or 165 gr bullets. I use the 140 gr interlock in my 270 and they drop them in their tracks. The Sierra Game Kings are also great in any of these. You can also buy round nose bullets in 308 cal in 150 and 180 gr. Nosler partition bullets expand quickly but still get penetration. Realize that the 303 does at the muzzle what the 30-06 does at 100-150yds. It is not fair to say that the 303 will kill better than another caliber that has more velocity. That would be like saying that the 308 or 30-06 kill better that a 300 magnum... Why would people buy any magnum?
@poorfatman5317 ---> Them do not do it! Why ruin a great time-tested battle rifle that has served well on all continents with a hunk of glass in a tube?!? If you cannot see the deer (or other animal) get some eyeglasses from the optometrist, rather than messing up the looks and balance of a great rifle. British and Canadian soldiers used to use the .303 Lee-Enfield in the Palma Trophy Matches, no scopes.
The title seems like clickbait. Maybe if you're hunting so close that you don't even need a scope. I would choose any of the other calibres you mentioned over .303 for hunting. And yes, I have brought down game with .303 on several occassions.
This is my theory on why the 30-30 is so good. It's limited bullet selection is designed specifically for its velocity levels.
Unquestionably. Bullets for other calibers need to perform over a huge range of velocities and ranges, with the .303 and 30-30 the bullets can be designed for a single round, and ranges can generally be assumed to be fairly short.
As a Canadian I can attest those 303 hot core 150s work great. Used them on moose as well and they go nowhere. Loving this build can't wait for the next episode!
I can listen to your conversations for hours. Thank you for talking about and bring out the 303 British. If all these new hunters would listen to some common sense conversations and see what hunting deer and other big game has been done with before now… for many years and not believe the hype over all the new calibres that promise you the world I would not be finding bloated carcasses almost every time I go into the woods.
Isn’t that the sad truth of the matter!
i too can listen to him for hours , only just found the channel but its like your sittin with a knowledgable mate chin waggin away , , i love his style and delivery , it sinks in , not one of those "this is how it goes channels" , he talks it all thru , cheers bra
Cfe 223 and hornady 150gn interlock have worked great in all my 303s. Thanks for all the videos on 303. As it's a dying caliber and one that shouldn't be forgotten.
H335 start loads have kept my 5-shot groups at MOA, with 150-grain fmjs👍
I use h335 as well but I use it for 174-180gr. I found slower powders like R22 and h4831 for 150gr. They have stopping power and accuracy.
Be well.
Here in Australia I load the locally made Woodleigh 174 gr bullets, which are excellent performers on game. Their factory is back in production after a disastrous fire, so should be again available in the US in the future.
I love the Woodleigh’s. Glad to hear they are back at it again. It’s been hard to find any since the fire.
Do you know if these would be available in the UK?.
Sounds right. The cartridge - when converted to smokeless, not the original black powder load - was a 174 grain bullet, so that seems reasonable to use. I presume the Woodleigh product is a soft point expanding sort.
I have used some Woodleigh bullets in the past - cannot remember what cartridge. I remember them as well made but a bit expensive here in the U. S. Obviously I had to pay for shipping one way or another. I didn't know about the fire. I am glad they are still striving to do well.
Tonysambar, do you know who is stocking woodleigh in Australia the shops I usually use say they are still unavailable.
I so glad your able to survive in such a place. I hope you get to escape one day… Maybe Switzerland?
Cannuck here, haved owned and used 303 for 50 years and have friends who use them as well. Have seen deer, elk, moose, caribou, black and Grizzly bear taken by the 303 and 80 percent of them dropped on the spot. The rest didn't move very far.
Dad gave me one when I was 9 or 10. 303 sporterized Enfield iron sights. You did not have to do much tracking. I loved it!
Love your commentaries. You speak plain truth and back it up with fact and experience.
Honestly, as smooth and reliable as the Lee Enfield action is, I can't believe it hasn't been patterned and adapted for different calibers and newer rifle designs. Not only do I think it would serve as a good building platform, it would be another good (and potentially cheaper) option for a smooth action within the hunting rifle market in general, and it would also help to assure the .303 British round stays alive. I think .303 has a lot of merits and it would be a shame if it ever faded away. Both the round and the action.
As far as the .303 round itself, speed is great for achieving long distance terminal performance, but there's a lot to be said about the extreme efficacy of a slower moving, heavier bullet too. Under 300 yds, it can often be the better option. The sheer number of large game animals it has quickly and effectively dispatched over the years is proof enough of its capabilities.
Regardless, these videos are giving me .303 British/Lee Enfield fever. Keep 'em coming! Cheers from Canada. 🇨🇦
The 303 is well loved here, 180 gr is 🔥 Thanks for sharing your thoughts too, sir. 🇨🇦🇺🇸
Thanks Tom for bringing to light that a 303 is an excellent choice but still underrated. From South Africa.
Ps. I love that sound of the diesel loco horn, quite rare in SA at the moment.
A lot of marketing of bullets makes great emphasis on long range. It allows fabricants to come up with new designs and a large array of bullet choices, some very technically advanced and expensive. However, most deer is shot at less than 250 yards, and much less in eastern America. Then bullet construction is not so crucial. At those distances bullets still have their speed and energy and good placement is lethal. All too often, hunters use over-designed and overpriced bullets that are meant for long range and do not do well at shorter ranges. Keep it simple. Your comments on the efficiency of the .303 pretty well come back to that. Quite appropriate for Simple Living to make that point. Thank you Tom. Love your channel.
20 years ago I sold a 7mm08 Blaser and had a BSA .303 P14 custom made, shooting 150 grain Sierra bullets, and never looked back. The all round terminal ballistic performance out to 300 meters is exceptional. For years my .303 has consistently out performed my .308 Remington Model 7 shooting a similar 150 grain Sierra bullet. Just like the 250-3000 Savage the.303 has the "X" factor when it comes to terminal ballistics. SAAMI and marketing has been the only handbrake on these classic cartridges.
My first rifle was a 303 British Australian Mark4, bought out of a barrel of them at the local hardware store for $8.88. I was 14.
It took until I was 32 years old to decide I needed a “modern” rifle. The old 303 took deer and moose no issue ever. 174 grain bullets, but also used 150’s and 215’s.
Super video Tom. This is perfect for me as I am going through exactly the same process as yourself but with the Courtney Hunter. (when I eventually get it). I cannot get the Speer Hot Cores in my country (UK). But have stocked up on Hornady 150 grain Interlock Spire Points as my bullet of choice. I also have a few 174 Hornady Round nose just to try out too. Fantastic videos as always Tom. Keep posting!.
Uberti is currently manufacturing the Courteney stalking rifle, a falling block action in .303. It is the only production .303 I'm aware of at this time.
I have one on order. Have been waiting nearly a year now for it.
I saw it mentioned someplace and went online to maybe (?) buy one, but then I saw the price tag. Sticker-shock! Yikes! I could buy a used pick-up truck for less than that single-shot from Uberti.
My brother in law has one.
Its a very nice rifle and shoots really good.
The color case hardening is bright vibrant and his had a lot of blue/ purple in it. The wood has nice lines in it.
@@tbjtbj4786My Courtney rifle is scary accurate.
Thanks Tom. For helping me understand this cartridge. I have recently, restored and re-barreled historical rifles in this caliber on the back of some of your content. Also 100% practical caliber, and a pleasure to shoot. I appreciate the time you take to make these videos.
I agree completely that it is the bullet, not the cartridge, started white tails with a 30-30 150 gr., worked fine, stepped up to a .280 Rem, 140 core lokt worked fine, but the deer ran a tad further, started handloading, had a 140 gr partition grenade on a big bodied 7 point at 30 yards broadside, second shot between the shoulders at bottom of neck stoned him, gave up on the partitions and went to Barnes X..... several seasons later in KS drifting timber one of my buds shot a button buck at less than 30 yds ( I was a75-80 yards away) with a 150 grain partition (factory Federal) it grenaded....tracked it almost 150 yards, it was curled up at the base of a cedar, still lively until I sent a 140 Barnes X tunneling through him. I have shot a bunch of KS. and MO. white tails with the 140X, never had one go over 30 yards, most just drop....
Thanks for sharing that Allen. I have never heard of a Partition blowing up before. I know they have a soft front section but usually that shank keeps on driving through. I'm wondering if maybe Nosler hasn't been messing with them in a bad way? And I haven't tried any of the Barnes bullets yet but you aren't the first one I've heard say great things about them.
Oh, and I think you might like the video coming out this Sunday? It's on the 280.
Thanks Tom, love your content. Learning so much.
Another very interesting episode, thanks. Interesting thought about when the bullet was designed.
Remington used to make a real moose and bear stomping 215 grain load for the 303 Brit. And CIL made a 180 grain sabre tip aka ballistic tip. Both were awesome rounds but the 215 grain was something else on the really big game.
I picked up a Lee-Enfield bout a year ago. Only fired it a handful of times so far. Just loaded some test rounds using .311" 150gr Sierras and Ramshot Tac. Thanks, Tom! Choo-choo!
Cut my teeth on hunting all through the 70s with a 303 Brit. 180 gr. Silver tips and Remington round nose. Moose, elk and deer never lost one, 303 won’t drop them like hit by lightning but they will drop typically from 5-75 yards. I still have two 303 in the locker, one shorter and one original WW1 Mk3. 🇨🇦
It amuses me when people sometimes old enough to be familiar act confused when they see one of the parent cartridges being used still
Powder. 303 has been around since pre smokeless. Late 1800's. Cordite was the British military propellant. The initial smokeless powder was 303#1》》》aka 3031.
I'm in Kanada. Old Ross rifles, dozens of different Lee Enfield models, and Enfield bolts, pattern 14. P14 Enfield are a very strong action, many converted to African calibers.
As far as bullet shape,there is a reason why the big African stopping rifles mostly use round nose bullets,as you noted,they transfer the energy and shock better than spire point bullets.But and interesting note here,I saw a video not to long back of a ph talking about bullet shape,and he noted how the flat point bullets are doing even better.Im sorry I can't remember his name,but he is highly experienced and runs a school to teach other professional hunters.His observation is that the flat points are delivering a better transfer and the animals react even quicker to being shot.The bigger the meplat,the more shock and energy being delivered to the target,which makes sense to me.Great video,enjoyed it,keep up the good work.I look forward to your videos each Sunday.
I saw a video on the new Hammer bullets and they explained the shock wave of the blunt bullet. Makes a lot of sense now!
Right on. My Dad and his buddies used Lee Enfields in the 60's and 70's before it became too built up in the area they hunted and it went to Shotguns only. The .303 Lee Enfield was and is a great Rifle.
everything you said; except bullet size applies to the 30-06. i agree with everything you said about bullets.
😂 did you hear what he said about him losing deer with the 30/06? lol 😂
I've never lost a deer with the 30-06, but using most 180 grain bullets their response to being hit is often pretty minimal. Sometimes difficult to tell if you've hit the deer without a fair bit of tracking, and if you're usually hunting on bare ground I could see that making things a bit tricky.
As i see it every thing you said is totally true. Its really hard to top those round nose corelokts for dropping animals in their tracks. I think the only thing that ever came close was the old winchester silver tips. The 30-06 story you told is very similar to my own. I was shooting hotloads of hard bullets and shot a little buck at 50 yards it ran about 25 yards and started munching acorns again. I really got down on it at 75 yards and shot it again and it ran on down the side of the ridge and crashed about 50 yards from where i hit it the second time. When i got to the deer that was now almost 200 yards from my stand it had two enterance and exits both about the same size and could be covered by a 50 cent piece. I learned real fast that 130 grain hot 30-06 just wasnt something i wanted to hunt deer with. I traded that gun soon after because i lost faith in it. It wasnt the guns fault it was just my uneducated choice of ammo. Had i been using 165 grain corelokts i would most likely still own that rifle.
And the same goes for me and my rifle, poor bullet selection.
Blessings to you and yours in everyway 🙏🏼
Memphis 🇺🇸 Tennessee
Tom you make a lot of sense in what your saying about bullet selection
Hello Tom,
It was a great time to watch this video and listen to the anecdotes and your thoughts.
Have to say, this really shows how bullets have changed over the years...but in 308, 30-06 or 303 Brit, a heavy round nose has been a heavy round nose...at least in my use :) As in great haha.
I hunt with a Ruger #1 in 303. I used a Lee Enfield before that. Years back, you could not find 303 projectiles here, so I got set up and began swaging my own .312” bullets. I used sized down 223 Rem casings for my jackets and cast lead cores which I solder bond in with a propane torch. They have shot moose, elk, bear and deer. Sadly, I have never recovered a bullet from an animal and even searching the area with a metal detector have had no success.
Ballistically, 30-06, 270 and 308 are superior to the 303. That said, I agree with the idea that sticking with a winning combo of ammo and rifle gets the game on the ground.👍🏻
In response to a couple of fellas who got sidetracked by wound channel size-- Tom didn't get bogged down in wound channel- we all know about big holes, shoot thru etc,. His talk is really about the "X factor" which many gun writers have tried to nail down as "stopping power" but which is an elusive effect that not all cartridges have. All .30cal bores can develop some combination that will approximate "X factor" on deer and non-dangerous game. Several thousandths of an inch diameter are not "X factor" nor is velocity by itself adequate. It is a combination that results in a rapid mortality. If big holes was the explanation 12ga foster slugs would always result in an instant kill- they don't...because they lack velocity. It is some alchemy of velocity, shape, weight, assuming identical placement. .303 has some magic left...
Never heard of X factor, but yes there's that "thing" that some cartridges demonstrate incredibly well.
@@johnnorman7708 I guess we can call it whatever we want because its so elusive as a demonstrable correlation. If it was only as simple as say ballistic coefficient we'd find those always perfect combos and we'd stop chasing the "Pot o-gold"!
@@Leif1963 If you study terminal ballistics long enough you will see trends being reported often enough to know they aren't all just anecdotal wives tales. Anecdotal yes, but it is the fire and smoke thing. Too many reports to dismiss. So "X" factor it is.
@@johnnorman7708 I agree not anecdotal just very difficult to quantify. I have seen big deer go down like they were poleaxed and little deer with a major hit run farther than we would expect. I did hear one writer quote a forensics expert that if a bullet hits between heart beats it can hasten death by a magnitude. Some sense in that- impossible to replicate physically- would be interesting to see if an algorithim could crunch good data and home in on the "X factor". Mass, velocity, surface area, core construction- such a fascinating question. I'm doing field testing in 10days! :>)
@@Leif1963 That heart beat position thing sounds scientifically plausible. I have heard of that theory elsewhere. Forensic pathology is one deep subject.
Lost my dad in Feb. When he was young his dad would take him to Bath county VA and hunt public land. My dad had to use a military 303. Open sights!
For a cheap bullet the hotcor always group great in my rifles. The 200 grain hotcor will print .5” groups in my 338federal.
Having owned them all. I believe you're wrong. I think the 30 odd 6 has worked the best for me.
Having been a Hunter, reloader and rifle dealer for 60+ years I think the 30-06 has killed more for me too but it could be different for someone else depending on where they live to so I think we are both right but I still prefer the 30-06🤔😳
@@edwardabrams4972Carried the 30-06 for years and have switched to the.303. The 30-06 has a little more range then the .303 but the .303 will kill better at 200 250 yards.
I just purchased 200 Speer hotcore 150grain and a Lee 303 die set for a brother and friend. I have no use and experience with the 303 British. The 270 is a different matter . I agree most 130 gr. 270 Bullets are too soft. Elmer Keith said the 270 is a good varmit cartridge but not for much else. Jim Carmichael hated the 270 but the 280 Remington was his favorite deer cartridge. I love the 270. Had many instant kills drop in tracks
Great video, I’ve been trying to tell the younger folk exactly what you have explained in this video. On another note I’ve just purchased a Ruger No1 in 303 British that was part of a collection and has remained unfired, I just today bought both bullet weights in Speer hot core for it plus I also use the 140 grain hot core in my 6.5 x 55.
Yep. If the 303 ever gets popular again, cartridge makers will start seating all kinds of bullets for it and ruin the 303 reputation. They did this in part back in the 70s when they loaded a bullet for them with a teflon-nylon tip. The tip to this spitzer style bullet was white and hard. It's selling point was that it would not deform in magazines and actions. ( They would also pass completely through a deer with two same caliber holes both sides.) Being a teen back then and not really knowing anything about bullets, I blamed the 303 for being a 303 and sold my rifle. Like I say I was a teen and did not know better. So if ever the 303 gets popular again and all kinds of fancy bullets come out for it, I'll know not to blame the cartridge. Thanks for the great topic.
Love that rifle and the project you're doing. I agree, I think the round nose soft points have better knockdown power.
I don't know if they would be legal to use in warfare. The enemy might complain that you are using expanding bullets.
But, I don't know for certain, I am just thinking of the ammunition made Dum-Dum.
Hello Tom River. Good video with good common sense. The brit rifle uses a bigger bullet (.3125) caliber, whereas the .30 calibers use a .308 size bullet. Wider bullet makes bigger hole. Round nose or flat nose bullets are better game getters than pointed bullets because they expand better. Bigger hole means more blood loss. More blood loss means a dead animal instead of a wounded animal. {Why cannot people understand that?}
P.S. Funny stuff when the train whistle/horn blew. Yours sounded just like the coal & heavy freight train that pulls through at least twice and sometimes 4 times per day, usually about 2 A.M. where I live in snow country. I live about 150 yards or so from the train track. I thought it was my train until you mentioned it. 😊
Thanks uncle Tom. Awesome video
Another Canadian here, and when I was a kid 50 years ago you could buy milsurp Lee Enfields for next to nothing. My dad had 3 or 4 and so did his hunting buddies. Anyway looking around on midwayusa i see there are also Sierra Pro Hunter 150 and 180 gr bullets but they are out of stock, and are also more expensive than these Speer bullets.
Edit to add: beautiful gun BTW.
Been hunting for 52 years. Deer and elk in AZ, UT and CO. For deer its been 30-06 with 165gr Sierra BT and 270 with 140 Hornady SST, 140 Sierra, Hornady 143 ELD-X and Federal Fusion 150gr. Dozens of deer hit and equal dozens dead and recovered without the need to track. I guess its your bad luck or that Sierra, Hornady and Federal Fusion make bullets that work on deer for the 30 and 270 calibers.
I have the Uberti Selous Stalker. Loading a bit hotter as well with 180 Speers. I'll be hunting elk in northern AZ in December.
Thanks for an interesting video. Almost 20 years ago I was obsessed in finding the caliber that would put down roe deer immediately with a double lung shot. And I found it 😵💫in the 340 Weatherby with handloaded Hornady RN 250's at 2850 fps. That deer fawn had an exit wound the size of a crater and all the ribs where broken next to the spine from the extreme shock that bullet created. I will not be trying that again although it was very effective to say the least. I then switched to A-Frame 250 and shot a roe buck with it. Now there was no excess at all actually and the effect was basically the same as it would have been with a 308. So although my hunting experience is not as extensive as yours, I can attest to the fact that bullet selection is very very important. Many times people discard a certain caliber cause they had some bad experiences with it, when in fact they may just have been using an unsuitable bullet for the task. The same is true in the opposite direction as you well point out: a caliber such as 303 British can reach heroic status since it almost makes it impossible to choose the wrong bullet. Btw, I am also a big fan of Nathan 🙂 Greetings from Sweden.
Thanks Nordic Rifleman, and ironically enough I was just watching one of you videos earlier. I love that No1 in 7x57 you were shooting. I was trying to decide for several years whether to get my No1A in 303 British or 7x57. I finally decided on the 303 because there really aren't any other choices in a modern rifle for 303 but I still love that rifle you have in 7x57! And I had to laugh at the end of your video when you had to wait to go over the shot group because of someone else. I've lost count of how many times I've had to wait to go over results because of other people showing up at the range. I think that's something only another TH-camr can truly appreciate.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thanks for your comment 🙂 My range is usually very quiet but this was the one exception 😁 Sadly I sold that Ruger 😢 We are only allowed to have a total of six hunting rifles and/or shotguns combined for hunting in Sweden. It’s beyond sad. Suppressors don’t require any paperwork and can be bought over the counter or on the internet, but then we have this stupid restriction. In August AR’s became allowed for hunting for the first time. I am not interested in those at all for hunting but they are selling ‘em like crazy over here now. Many people trade in prized rifles to buy AR’s, so the used gun market is getting new interesting stuff now. The used gun market is pretty good overall over here due to the six rifle/shotgun restriction, but now it’s even better when people are rushing to get AR’s. Let’s see what I end up with. Think I need to seriously think about what my six rifles shall be, but it’s a bit hard/impossible for me as I have had around 150 different rifles in the last 20 years 😳
Definitely need a Ruger No 1. Maybe a Remington Seven CDL. And some other stuff. But I need to hang into my dad’s old Sako Finnbear 30-06 and my Sako 6,5x55. Probably the Sako 222 also or if I trade it for an American 222 or similar. Sorry for the lengthy reply 😬 I just wanted to add some information about the gun situation in Sweden. Will continue watching your excellent videos. Really like this format listening to someone who has a lot of experience. And I love your dialect/accent 😀👍🏻
The higher pressure loads are subject to the brass design too. If you raise the pressures you will get less case life.
The 303 mk7 has a full metal jacket , however the front 1/3 rd isnt filled with lead so the bullet is base heavy . So on impact the bullet turns causing a larger wound
what a lovely shack !
If the bullet stops in a animal it absorbs all the energy, it dies. The 303 has killed more game in Canada then any other cartridge. Reason being is after the war 303 showed up by the truck load going for 5 dollars a gun. Prior to that the 1895 Winchester was available in 303. Second place in Canada would be the 30 30 Winchester which makes it first place in North America because of age and being number 1 in the USA!
Do you have any statistics whatsoever to support your claims of what cartridges took more game?
Hornady interlock, barns TTX, also makes 303British bullets for reloading
I really like your lee enfield
It’s all about “enough power” bullet selection to match the game and above all bullet placement.🤔
My experience definitely matches yours when it comes to meplat. My only two DRTs with deer have been with my .270 using Federal 150 gr Nontypical, a round nose soft point design. Besides those, I've taken deer with Spitzer type 130 and 140 gr Hornady bullets in my .270, all-copper 110 gr Barnes Tac-TX in .300 Blackout (supersonic ~2400 fps), and a soft-nose 240 gr bullet from a .44 Magnum handgun. All my deer other than those two with rifles went 30-40 yards before laying down, which is fine, but I was surprised I never got a DRT even with almost identical placement. The revolver kill was a long 140 yard tracking job, but a buddy kicked it up from where he bedded down 30 yards away after the shot.
Those wide-meplat rifle bullets really put game down with authority. Unfortunately, no one seems to make component .277 bullets in that profile. Overall that nose profile seems much less popular these days in favor of the extended long range, super-high-BC bullets. It's a shame. Not all of us want to go hunting at 4-, 5-, 600 yards. Some of us just want to shoot a deer 60 yards and see it drop on the spot without having to chase it through brambly thickets.
thanks for the great video!!
it’s nice ( but rare) to see someone make a video about what just “gets it done” instead of what looks so awesome on paper but suffers in “real world performance”
just found your channel ,,really enjoying your presentations and delivery , everyone has a 303 in ozzi ( gettin tired now ) as a kid in the 70's you went from 22 lr to a winchester 32-20, you desired a 44-40 and moved up when you could , there was stupid ammo laws in the 1950's that meant most 303 were altered to sporters and 303 -25 a bit like win 270 , there were some conversion to 303-270 as well , laws changed and normal 303 came good some shot out 303 are now 303-35 but most of our rifling shops are gone from the UN laws that were implemented , farmers with doe usually had a win model 70 , dont recall what caliber though ,,, kangaroo shooters used 222 bolt actions ,young guys with doe would get a 94 win 30-30 ,, that was the norm from the 1940's thru to the 1980's , now we have everything like you guys but dirty laws following the UN agenda , cheers from down under
Cool story about the UN. Shame none of it is true.
I used a hundred and eighty grain sierra boat tail for most of them
Taking people on hunts, I've seen all these rounds do exactly the same thing. The magic is indeed in the bullet selection and most importantly shot placement.
A friend jumped on several boxes of the then brand new Federal Premium with Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet. He shot at 3 deer with no recovery in one afternoon. Thinking he was missing, he tested on paper and was dead on. The vultures revealed the deer locations. I had a similar problem with the 270 Failsafe bullet and 300 yard tracking. These bullets worked like solids in deer-sized game. Not understanding then, I got rid of the rifle thinking that’s how 270s work. Regrettable.
Tom what is your thaughts on the solid copper bullets like the 165gr Hornady CX?
Agree it is about correct bullet selection. Manufacturers used to (or at leas they used to) note the velocity range on the box within which the bullet was designed to perform properly. E.g. this bullet is designed to expand at impact ranges from 1,600 to 2,400 fps. Also agree on Hot-Cor bullets. They are relatively cheap but have always performed very well in my own experience. Why pay for more for the same performance?
I think you meant to say the 6.5 Manbun when you were talking about the new 6.5.
You may already know this, but those Deer Season XP from Winchester have a flat meplat, under that tip that they added for a better BC. They are made for deer ... I haven't tried them - I was debating whether to do so, but I am sweet on the Nosler Accubond
Never had a problem reaching Vitals with a 100 grain sp .243!
Same here.
Tom…I think CVA makes a single shot in 303 British
When i was using a 303 i used remington 180gr rd nose and win 180gr power points they worked well but i had equal luck with 30-06 220gr corlock
Hello from New Zealand Tom. Great score getting the No1 in 303! I remember reading in a Rod and Rifle magazine here in NZ years ago where the author was trying out a No1 in 303, and he was quite surprised that Ruger had cut the chamber dimensions the same as the Lee Enfield which he was a bit critical of as he thought they should have cut it tighter as obviously not being used in a battle type situation with dirty ammo which Enfields are famous for. I've reloaded 303 for years now and only partial size the brass which seems to help its lifespan, but find the necks give up first (crack). I make one load for all 3 I have, chopped SMLE with a Westley Richards bbl, Parker Hale No4 sporter, and mint Longbranch No4. Use Hornady 150 SP .312. Something to think about perhaps if you are going to load a little hotter? Cheers.
Hi from Gisborne
It may have been the barrel diameter, but I still think it was the chamber? Might see if I can find the article. Possibly magazine is in storage.......?
@@mattyallen3396 hey there 👍
I too expected tighter chamber dimensions from Ruger in a sporting rifle. Very odd choice. And a tight barrel as well.
1. Start with quality unprimed brass. Privy Partisan is the closest to military ball that I've found after mic'ing cases. Rim and head dimensions are almost identical to WWII Canadian ball and Greek HXP ball from circa 1982.
2. Use a .33 Lyman case neck expander die to expand the necks well above bullet diameter, then neck back down to .303 neck size in small increments until the empty case will just barely chamber with a crush fit on bolt closure. Now you have a case where the false shoulder is headspacing the new case on the shoulder instead of the rim. What stretch you will have will be radially outwards, not having cases stretching in length that will lead to case separations and necks splitting.
3. After firing, use either neck sizing or partial full length sizing to return to a crush fit. Best of all, the Lee Collet Die... one Lee product that is head and shoulders above other choices particularly for this caliber.
That will solve your case lifetime problems. Given the differences in chambers in various rifles, you need to have dedicated brass and resizing criteria for each rifle.
30.06 180 grain anchors whitetail where they stand
I have a question. Using a handload 308 win cartridge or a 30-06 cartridge loaded with a 180 grain round nose 30 cal. bullet, say a 30 cal. 180 gr RN hot-core bullet, loaded to 303 brit standard velocity for the 180 gr 303 bullet so to duplicate bullet and velocity of the 303 brit in these two 30 cals, will the effect on game be similar or identical as you indicate the 303 brit 180 grain cartridge is on whitetails? Or in other words, will the 308 and the 30-06 loaded to 303 brit velocities all with 180 gr RN hot core bullets and the 303 brit with same bullet and velocity have the same effect on deer? ( I guess that's two questions.)
In my P14 IMR4895 with the Sierra 180 gr. has worked best, but IMR4064 is a close second.
Is falling block really inherently stronger of an action than bolt action??? I personally think they probably both could be built up or down to meet needs. They seem pretty evenly matched?
It’s all bullet placement.On any cartridge.All what works for each individual.
Your half right! Shot placement and bullet construction are the 2 main factors in knockdown success! I might know my father was reloading John Noslers Partitons when they very first came out and have seen the difference when taking game but especially big game like elk and my 60+ years has proved this on hundreds of game animals!
@@edwardabrams4972 And I've been hunting even longer and I've probably seen more game animals taken with Speer Hot-Cor bullets than Partitions. They're both fine bullets. As are the Barnes X. As are many, many other bullet designs.
Any of those .30 calibers in a Swift A Frame, or Nosler Partition, with a good shot, bang flop.
150, 165, 180 grains take your pick. If someday we must go lead free, that Barnes TSX is the copper answer to the A Frame or Partition.
Now that you mention round nose bullets, it makes sense. 30-30s are known for being great for deer. Also the 6.5X55 Swede in 160 grain round nose is supposed to be a great moose round, although I have not used that round. They make round nose bullets for the .30-06 also. Probably the .308 as well. Bullet selection, and bullet placement are key. These are not for long range shots.
The 257 Roberts was also a round nose for the heavier bullets, and honestly I hadn't even thought of all of those great cartridges commonly having a round nose bullet until you mentioned it John, thanks for that! And I do agree on the Partition being an outstanding bullet but dang those things have really gotten expensive lately!
They built at least 20 or 30 Million of the Lee-Enfield rifles. All chambered for .303 British. And all over the World these "Surplus" rifles have been killing game for about 60+ years! In Canada my mom's family kill Elk, Caribou and even Moose with them!!!
Oh Tom 🙄😳🤦
What does a Red Wings fan know about rifle bullets? Mostly handguns fired over there. 😂
@@JMac-md3vj good one
G'day from Australia Tom.
When you talk about shock on an animal from a round nose bullet, are you eluding to hydrostatic shock?
Ah yes... the elusive "hydrostatic shock"... Goes with bullets that shoot laser straight up until 400 yards or so before they start finally dropping.
All very interesting I. Wouldn’t. Doubt. Your. Opinion
Thanks Dominic!
Everybody has their rifle they love and caliber as well as bullet for me 270 win. 130 gr.
I suspect .303 is a lot like .30-30. Velocity is moderate enough with the heavier bullets that they do expand adequately but are not fast enough to over expand even at close range. You run out of velocity before you run out of bullet.
🎉
Sammi says not to go past 45,000 psi
The 303 British in North America was mostly a Canadian thing. Lots of surplus bolt action army rifles easily acquired. The Canadian Rangers, a military sub group of mostly First Nations members living in the remote far northern provinces still carry them for polar bear protection. For all practical purposes that caliber should have changed decades ago but Canada is Canada. The guns see rough handling so a military weapon makes sense. They use iron sights. In 50 years in Alaska I've never seen anyone, White or Native carrying one. I shot a lot of whitetails as a kid and mostly we shot 30/30s, 300 Savages and a few .308s and nobody had any trouble killing them. Guns are interesting & fun but spending time with the 303 unless somebody willed one to you seems like a lot of wasted motion.
Right on.
Barns TTX for the 303British is a great round the only copper bullet i load for out of all my different rifles and cals
There isn't a big game animal in Canada that hasn't been taken with a 303 .
The statement that “303 Bt is almost identical to 308” says all any experienced reloader/shooter needs to hear! 🙄😳😂
In the Canadian north, the military said that when needed the 303 did a way better job of stopping polar bears, then the 308.
Tom, the 303 British , is not more Effective than the other calibers, because even though you say that, you also say The other calibers will do the same , with the right bullet. Yes, the right bullet matters. Remington, and Winchester had this figured out along time ago. So if One wants 303 cal , type Results in a 3006cal, then go with the heaviest Win Power Point , factory ammo, or maby 220 grn Core Lokt.
The Magic Formula is Bullet type and Speed, obviously. Nathen, of Terminal Ballistics is spot on. I personally have discovered, the 6.5x55 gives the biggest entrance and exit hole, using PPU PRIVI 139 grn SP, due to massive lead tip exposure. Jacked up Factory load, 6.5x55 SE. , Sellor and Bellot 131 grn barely makes an entrance and exit hole.
I Frankly do not think the .303 British cartridge is more effective than the alternates. However, I cannot claim it is any less, either.
The various rifles used for hunting may may a difference, but the cartridge by itself is well within the same class of cartridge.
The .303 British cartridge uses a bigger (wider) bullet than the .308 calibers. It is NOT .303 caliber but is actually a .3125 caliber bullet. Wider bullet makes a bigger hole. Good idea to buy/borrow/get a Lee or a Lyman printed reloading manual.
@@gusloader123 Yes. Just for the tally book, the bullets for .303 Brit is listed as .311". I'm not going to quibble that. However, the frontal ares of a bullet is ".5 R multiplied by Pi squared".
That makes the frontal area of a .3125 projectile is 1.542 square inches (and a few more decimal points but this is likely as accurate as it's going to get).
The frontal area of a .308 bullet (the U. S. idea of .30 caliber) is 1.519 square inches.
Frontal area of a 7mm bullet is 1.894 square inches.
So the .303 bullet is .023 square inches larger than the .30 caliber bullet.
The .303 bullet is .352 square inches larger.
And this means, what?
Look at the evidence. What statistical evidence that the larger diameter bullet ( and the lower velocity with attendant lower energy) is more efficient or effective in killing any particular game animal, presuming equivalent shot placement? Similarly, statistical evidence that the larger diameter bullet ( and the lower velocity with attendant lower momentum) is more efficient or effective in killing any particular game animal, presuming equivalent shot placement? Being in my eighth decade and having studied terminal ballistics and listened to older hunters most of my life, I do not see a difference. I will also point out some individual rifles shoot better than others. That should not be considered in this discussion.
One's personal choices and why are very individual. So my purpose is not to convince anyone else 'this' one is better than 'that' one. Also just for the tally book, I have rifles of all three calibers discussed here. In my mind, all three calibers are suited to take game the size of deer.
You didn’t graduate high school did ya
Hmm. I seem to have lost track of my thought process. The cat does indeed interrupt me at times.
Diameter of "30 caliber" bullet is .308".
Diameter of "7mm" bullet is .284".
Diameter of ".303" bullet is .311"
Formula for frontal area - forward ''surface' area is pi (301416...) multiplied by r(adius) squared.
So, the 30 caliber bullet is .074 square inches.
The "7mm" bullet is .063 square inches.
The ".303" bullet is .076 square inches.
Okay, I'm not sure where I ventured off course, but I did.
Still not much of a difference.
One has to also consider velocity of the bullet at impact (not muzzle velocity), bullet weight and effect of bullet (expanding bullet is likely to be more effect than non-expanding). Now, I really do not know how to calculate a number based on that information giving a 'take to the bank' answer. Nor have I heard of such.
My conclusion is still the assertion of .303 being 'superior' cannot be established.
Many deer have been taken with the .30-30 cartridge; not a real power house. I would not scoff at a .303 (I have five, three Lee-Enfields of varying eras, a P-14 and a Ruger No. 1. I also have several other rifles, larger and smaller.
@@OldManMontgomery Well said. I also have a .303 Lee-Enfield and a Stevens bolt-action, box-magazine fed, .30-30. They are still doing the job. Your numbers / arithmetic is good.
The .303 more effective then the .308 or 06 etc?
This is overblown hype. The.303 with good bullets indeed is fully adequate for our big game and many African species have been successfully slain. The Lee Enfield is a very rugged rifle, one of the main reasons it was issued to Canadian Northern rangers and that it was a Rifle issued in the common wealth to their soldiers and imported also in huge numbers in Canada. Canada also for long time manufactured hunting loads in this caliber. However most Lee Enfield converted to hunting rifles are far from accurate and are reliable out to 150 yards max. The rifle is heavy and handles like a boat anchor.
I take aTikka .308 or 06 or .270 any time over a .303 clunker.
You're mostly right. But claiming the Lee Enfield/.303 British is only reliable out to 150 yards is another way of saying you've never been to a match at Connaught/Bisley, etc where they compete with those rifles at three times that distance without a scope.
I have enjoyed using my 1950 Long Branch for over half a century now and it handles very very, well. But you can say those things and at the same time acknowledge that while it is perfectly adequate, purpose made rifles for none military use can be better for most.
Tell us you have no what you’re talking about with out telling us you have no clue….
REPENT REPENT REPENT
😂😂😂😂😂
303 rules Canadian moose and bears for a hundred years. Killed more than war an a .22
"The bullet dumped all it's energy in the deer." Did it dump all it's energy, or did the energy dissipate with the bullet coming apart or "grenading"?
Energy doesn't just cease to exist. If the bullet didn't exit the deer absorbed it.
However, you absorbed more energy than the deer and are presumably still alive so perhaps the basic question is somewhat flawed.
I hunt with a flintlock sometimes with my longest shot being 120 yd. Likely less than 300 fp with round ball. It was completely sufficient.
@@gk5891 what is there to absorb? Energy is the measurement of the force that the projectile puts on the medium. As the bullet slows down, the energy measurement decreases it isn't leaving energy behind along the way as it is developing friction from pushing through the air. And when the bullet disintegrates and stops inside, it doesn't "dump" anything called energy inside. The resistance of the animal and the disintegration of the bullet stopped the bullets travel and the measurement of the force against the animal just decreased or dissipated as the bullet fragments came to a stop. The ft lbs of energy is only a measurement of the force that the bullet is exerting on the flesh, nothing more.
@@fedup3582 It's basic physics. Energy can't be destroyed. No difference in how much energy is transfered between 1,800 particles 0.1 gr each and 1 particle that weighs 180 gr assuming they don't exit. The same energy transfer. The question of lethality is an entirely different question.
@@gk5891 if a fracturing bullet impacts an animal with 2000 ft lb of energy but disintegrates and stops half way through, then that means that the bullet was impacting the flesh with 1000 ft lbs of energy one quarter of the way through, and by half way through, it has stopped and is applying zero ft lbs of energy to the flesh. If you used a controlled expansion bullet that acheives full penetration, impacting with 2000 ft lbs of energy and exiting with 1000 ft lbs of energy, that means that it was impacting the flesh with 1750 ft lbs on energy a quarter of the way in, vs 1000 ft lbs of energy from the fracturing bullet, and it is impacting the flesh with 1500 ft lbs of energy half way through, vs the fracturing bullets zero ft lbs of energy. At 3/4's the way through, the controlled expansion bullet is still impacting the flesh with 1250 ft lbs of energy, continuing on impacting flesh and exiting with 1000 ft lbs of energy. It has created a large wound cavity all the way through and out the other side, applying much more energy to the animal all the way through. The fracturing bullet, came apart, lost its momentum and stopped due to the resistance. It did not "dump" it's energy, the energy measurement reduced as the bullet particles came to a stop. The controlled expansion bullet, due to its design, retained its momentum, and continued to rip a large wound channel all the way through, it also did not "dump" any energy, it continued to apply force all the way through disrupting tissue and causing internal bleeding all the way through and provided two holes where the animal could bleed out, as opposed to the fracturing bullet only disrupting tissue to half way through and leaving only a small entrance wound to bleed out of. The ft lbs of energy is just a measurement of the force the bullet applies to the resistance of the flesh. The friction on impacting slows the projectile and as it does, the measurement reduces. It does not "dump".
Your sophomoric question was already answered in the video. 180 bullets from a .303 British don't come apart and they for damn sure don't grenade for the same reason that 170's out of a .30-30 generally don't come apart or "grenade."
7.62x54r is also .312 so they consolidated the projectiles, and they are basically the same speed as the .303 so they will be likely to work well in both like you said vs the .308 diameter
It's actually very nice having that selection of 303 bullets. The .310-.312 doesn't have a wide selection but Sierra makes 303 specific bullets which I use when I reload my 7.62x54r. I believe 7.7 jap is also .312 but it might be another japanese cartridge that is.
7.62 is .308,not .3l2.
@@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649 Go grab a pair of calipers and a reloading manual and measure the bullet diameter for the Russian 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r they measure out to between .310- .312. just because it's "7.62" doesn't mean it's .308.
@@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649 no .308 is 7.82mm.. 😊 (.30 is 7.62) Look at Lapua bullets. There are 7.62 for .30 cal and there are 7.62 for 7.62x/. (.310/.311). There are loaded ammunition for 7.62x53 with both .308 and .311 bullets to confuse things..
@@Finnbearl61r Now I'm very confused!
6.5x55 bud
Compare load data to a 300 Savage. The deer won't know the difference.
If you are using a 30-06 or a . 308 win in the smaller whitetail deer you need to go with 150gr bullets and they will drop in their tracks. If you handload you can choose from many bullets. The Hornady interlock bullets are great for deer with 150 or 165 gr bullets. I use the 140 gr interlock in my 270 and they drop them in their tracks. The Sierra Game Kings are also great in any of these. You can also buy round nose bullets in 308 cal in 150 and 180 gr. Nosler partition bullets expand quickly but still get penetration. Realize that the 303 does at the muzzle what the 30-06 does at 100-150yds. It is not fair to say that the 303 will kill better than another caliber that has more velocity. That would be like saying that the 308 or 30-06 kill better that a 300 magnum... Why would people buy any magnum?
It's really hard to mount a scope on a lee
the ATI aluminum rail worked well for me, just had to cinch the tensioning screw down with Loctite blue👍
Parker Hale made scope mounts for the Enfields, but are probably quite difficult to find these days!?
if you have a No4, you could buy a reproduction sniper kit. mounts low enough and comes with a wooden cheek riser
Try an S&K mount; it is easy to mount because it requires no drilling. Some say the S&K mounts move on you, but I have not had that problem.
@poorfatman5317 ---> Them do not do it! Why ruin a great time-tested battle rifle that has served well on all continents with a hunk of glass in a tube?!? If you cannot see the deer (or other animal) get some eyeglasses from the optometrist, rather than messing up the looks and balance of a great rifle. British and Canadian soldiers used to use the .303 Lee-Enfield in the Palma Trophy Matches, no scopes.
The title seems like clickbait.
Maybe if you're hunting so close that you don't even need a scope.
I would choose any of the other calibres you mentioned over .303 for hunting.
And yes, I have brought down game with .303 on several occassions.