Small mistake on my part. The big red German locomotive that makes a couple appearances in the video is a diesel hydraulic locomotive, not diesel mechanical.
@@MiG21aholic yes and no. The things being used to move the hydraulic fluid are mechanical, but ultimately it’s the fluid that’s transmitting all the power from the engine to the wheels.
Yes, V200 class. The early Class 42 locomotives (named after Warships or admirals) in the UK were our equivalent of the V200 but crammed into our smaller loading gauge. They look quite similar.
The class 03 switcher (shunter) you show at Barrow Hill has a 5 speed box and max speed of 28mph. You are right about taking care changing gears, I had a go driving one and was told not to go straight from gear to gear but wait between each change for the fluid clutch to clunk. They use compressed air to shift the collars so you do not feel each gear disengage and engage in the next one.
Hi, Class 03/04/05 have an Epicyclic gearbox that uses a brake band & sun and planet wheels, compressed air operates a cylinder to close the brake band and engage drive to each gear, 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 5th gears are indirect drive through the box, whereas 4th gear is direct drive (it locks all 4 gears), this is coupled to the engine via a fluid flywheel, Diesel railcars use a 4 speed box, but they have a free wheel as well to allow them to coast with the throttle closed.
@@TechnoJonny Thanks for the info. I only have a basic idea of how the gears work and what I was told not to do by the driver of the 03. I went under a DMU at a depot open day and the fitter showed me how the prop shaft was free to turn in one direction by hand and not in the other. He said about it being so the unit could coast in gear and being unable to use the gears to hold it on a gradient as you can with a road vehicle. It was years ago but if I remember right when the unit changes direction the prop shaft moves towards the front or rear of the car with compressed air to engage in the gears for the other direction. I think it was a class 101 blue square coded unit we were under but I guess they all worked in the same way.
When I was employed on the Huckleberry RR as track foreman, I used a 12-ton Plymouth diesel-mechanical loco with a D8 Cat engine, 4-speed transmission with a clutch, and a forward and reverse. It had 1.1mph in 1st up to 12.5 mph in 4th in F and R. The final drive was No. 200 roller chain from the transmission to each axle.
Im almost certain i drove an airport tug with this diesel mechanical drive system Its was hella slow but hella powerful I never did get to look under its hood, but it had 3 semi automatic gears with a 1, 2, 3 lever It was like a block of concrete filled with engine block, fitted with monster truck wheels, it was a beast, but you could probably crawl along the floor faster than it drove One of the querks to this was, you could put it in gear 3, line it up on the centre of the runway, put a brick on the gas pedal, tie the steering wheel to the seat, step out, get in your pickup truck, drive the pickup truck down to the other end of the runway, have a half hour break, and it still wouldn't have got to you 😂 and you could hear it before you saw it, man that thing was loud, you could hear it over the top of everything else on the airfield, it was louder than planes landing My boss once dragged a 747 with the brakes on with it It could well have been a hydraulic drive, yano, the gear shifter changing slides in a valve block, and the motor just coupled direct to a hydraulic pump, and a hydraulic motor on each axle? I dunno 🤷♂️😂
@@tcmtech7515 yes i can imagine that, this one i drove was like a house on mining truck wheels, it was like an enormous concrete block with an engine buried in the middle
that transmission is what you'd call a powershift..it essentially works the same way an automatic transmission does but without the automatic part. each gear (or planetary gear set)has its own hydraulic clutch. the shift lever (either mechanically or electronically) opens a valve that sends oil to that clutch, which locks the gear to the shaft. these transmission are usually found with torque converters on construction/industrial machines, usually with 3 or 4 speeds. however, you can find these transmissions with up to 24 speeds on tractors, which do not use torque converters due to the higher loads with closer ratios.
Any plans for making a video about gas turbine trains (IE things like the Union Pacific GTEL, English Electric GT3, UAC turbo train, and things like that)?
Technically, you weren't wrong saying engineering tolerances are in microns. Although they tend to be given in mm, they're usually on the order of 10 to 100 microns for things like automotive and rail engines and transmissions.
Hmmm, seems that Turbine Wheel is similar to the old Fluid Drive Trans in some of the 1947 Cars. DeSoto for example. But, anyway, I still remember as a kid hearing that Steam Loco rolling thru the night and that whistle piercing the night at the crossings. Miss that.
There are also small two axle shunters without any torque converters. They have a pneumatically operated clutch from a heavy duty truck. The gearbox is 4-speed with a reverse, in order to drive in both directions at the same speed. Such locomotives require skill on the side of the operator, he has to handle the pneumatic clutch lever with care and at the same time increase the engine RPM. Such shunters are not in use anymore, or at least I do not know of any. But there were purely mechanical systems without any fluid coupling. Then there was a electromechanical drive. Electric motors to get the train up to speed, then a clutch mechanism, directly connecting the engines to the wheels.
Have you ever heard about locomotive M 290.0, known as "Slovenská Strela"? It has hybrid engine. It have combined the diesel-electric and diesel mechanical engine. At low speeds the train was moved by diesel-electric engine and after it reached around 80 km/h, the engine mode was swtiched to diesel mechanical mode.
Awesome video. The hyundai pictired likley has an automatically shifting gearbox with a computer controlled autmatic duel clutch. No torque converter or fluid coupling
My dad has driven a bus with an automatic manual transmission. It had 4 gears and no clutch pedal, the gears were switched by pressing buttons from 1 to 3 and a somewhat misleading D gear which was just the fourth gear and not some type of automatic gear. The weird thing is, 1st gear was almost never used, 2nd was used for starting, and the shift between 2nd 3rd and 4th (aka D) were stupidly short. The bus could comfortably drive in 4th at 15mph all the way up to its top speed. So I suspect it used a torque converter before the transmission.
DMU diesel multiple units are the big one I guess? Six cylinder Mercedes bus engine (because tilted over) Into a torque converter and clutch-pack gearbox. A drive shaft goes down to the bogie. All the engine stuff is on a removable raft pack under the body. They are very easy to change up to hybrid by popping a motor/generator between the engine and gearbox.
I don’t really get the definitions of mechanical and hydraulic drive. Looking at the details, they both use very similar principles, being a fluid coupling to gearbox to a final drive. Only difference I can see is most diesel mechanicals seem to be manual in terms of shifting gears and diesel hydraulics are automatic. I just wonder if there’s any other noticeable difference.
The line is kinda grey between the different types, but in modern use "diesel hydraulic" usually refers to a locomotive or DMU only using hydrokinetic torque converters like the Voith Turbo Transmissions, while "diesel mechanical" usually refer to DMUs using automotive-type automatic transmissions like the ZF Ecolife rail. The main difference between these two is that the Voith types change "gears" by filling and draining several different torque converters with hydraulic oil, allowing a smooth change under power, while the ZF "mechanical" gearboxes have a single torque converter followed by different types of planetary gearsets which allow the torque converter to run in its best RPM, just like in a car or bus. Simply put: Diesel hydraulics only use several torque converters as "gears", while mechanical have a single torque converter with a gearbox after it. The modern diesel mechanical gearbox doesn't use a fluid coupling like the old types, because a torque converter works less like a clutch, but more like an infinite gearbox by having torque multiplication, which means you need less mechanical gears afterwards. This is also why automatic transmission cars historically needed fewer gears than mechanical transmissions, because the torque converter did much of the gearbox "work" itself.
@@kristenburnout1 While the Voith transmission is the most used hydraulic drive some classes like the earlier German V200 and the British Warship and Hymek used the Mekydro gearbox, and this one was pretty much like an automotive automatic gearbox. They have one torque converter and 4 planetary gears. The difference can be noticed, while the gearchanges on a Warship or Hymek feel a bit jerky the gear change on a Western which has Voith transmissions is totally smooth.
Your confusion stems from the fact that the definition of diesel-mechanical was apparently reinvented for and in this thread for the first time. Diesel-mechanical locos are by definition locos with engine, some clutch, sometimes gears(boxes), the wheels driven at the end either by chains or - more modern - driven via cardan shafts. The class of DMs is in the end quite small because they are small locomotives existing only in small numbers - mechanical transmission is not good at transmitting large power, so it is not used in large locomotives. So the big stuff is all DH - no matter how it's built. They all have gearboxes, but there are no mechanical clutches because they are too weak. Hydrostatic drives are used for work machines and long-track runners whose speed has to be infinitely variable. And these are not mechanical drives either, even if they contain parts of mechanical drives such as gearboxes etc. To put it simply: With the new definition of diesel-mechanical, someone is trying to create a monument for himself. Completely unnecessary.
The Bombadier Vlocity VLine trains in the state of Victoria, Australia are diesel mechanical. They are like a metro train with multiple Big diesels coupled to Allison automatic transmissions at each end of the train. Our state still has a fair bit of heavy industry manufacturing that has survived globalisation and free trade. I believe part of the reason diesel mechanical was used is because Kenworth and a few other truck and heavy haul companies have factories nearby and because these passenger trains have been in constant production since 2003 it made sense to use the existing supply chains. The trains being entirely passenger service are also pretty light and they are pretty fast too traveling at 160KMh for much of their journies (100MPH) a lot of people live in the second largest city, Geelong and catch the Vline train into the capital, Melbourne everyday for work and it'sfaster than driving. They are very nice trains to be on and the fares are now capped at a maximum of $9.20 a day to go between any 2 points of the entire state. You could cover more than 400KM about 300 miles by train in a day and spend less than 10 bucks Australian or about 6 bucks US.
Incorrect, it uses a hydraulic transmission. They use Voith hydraulic transmissions, not Allison automatic mechanical gearboxes. It seems the older Sprinter railmotors are the same (but with a different model of Voith transmission) Diesel-mechanical is rarely seen in standard gauge passenger rollingstock, except for some old British railcars that used a system of tightening bands to engage different gears, and also the heritage railways that use a diesel shunter to pull tourists around a small loop.
There seems to be some confusion about the Vlocity VLine trains, their technology and their history: It ś Diesel-hydrauic propulsion, not diesel-mechanical, the latter consisting of engine, clutch, gearbox, chains or today cardan shafts. Nor does the technology originate from the truck. The Cummins QSK19R with its 750 hp is certainly much bigger than the biggest truck engines of its time and it is also marketed as a locomotive engine. The Voith T312 is developed for railway operation, for high performance in combination with high speeds - both specifications that have no relevance in truck operation. The idea that the material comes from truck construction is typically American, but in the light of day it is nonsense. Also, the railcars are basically not Bombardier. The order was placed woth ADTRANZ in Kassel - Daimler-Benz was involved and the factory is the old HENSCHEL plant. Interestingly, Bombardier Transportation was headquartered in Kassel. So you have to ask yourself how much Bombardier was in there. In any case, it's one thing to talk about names. Because - Bombardier is also history now, it's ALSTOM now.
This high maintenance, inefficiency, and amount of things to go wrong, is why I hate tradition powertrains in cars & bikes. My future is full of homemade Battery-Electric-Vehicles and Series-Hybrids. I just want something that just works, so I can enjoy the other parts of my life. Not loose so much time to maintenance & repairs. And stressing out over maintenance schenduals and waiting for something to still go wrong.
@@harrimanfox8961 With a hub motor Electric Vehicle, like an Electric Motorcycle, the only mechanical things I have to worry about, are the motor bearings, suspension bearings, steering bearings, contactor/relays, any key holes not replaced by a wireless keyfob or tap, any latches and hinges for compartments & luggage, the tires, aaaaand the controls like the throttle potentiometer and brake lever switches. And Brake Regeneration is so effective, that traditional brake pads & rotors literally rust away, from how little they are used, leading EV manufacturers recommending occasionally braking hard, beyond Regen, to scrub rust off the rotors. And I believe there should be metallic brake-shoes, with teeth, directly holding the tires for parking, because Brake-Regen only works when the wheels are moving, from the physical resistance of the electromagnetic forces. Since the tires are a wear item that are likely the most replaced thing on an EV, then the vehicle might as well directly hold the tire treads, with durable, long lasting stainless steel teeth, that won't flatten or shred the tires, just hold them for parking on a hill. My point is, all the mechanical things on an EV, last a very long time, and are inexpensive to replace, and most of them don't even cripple the vehicle, if they fail. Then we get into Series-Hybrids, which are just EVs with onboard generators to charge or combine with the batteries. I declare, Series-Hybrids are the best option, because they give you the best of both worlds, the instant torque & stealth of electric, but the convenience of fuel. You just have to pick a time where you have to stop, or ride slow enough, for the generator to charge the batteries, AND, power the drive motors. The stronger the generator, the faster the charge time and top speed while charging. You don't have to look for or wait for a plug, and because the engine is only turning a generator, then it can be kept at it's most powerful, or most efficient RPM, even better then a CVT vehicle, and there is no clutch to wear out, no transmission to wear out, no gear-shifts to fumble over, and if the engine has a block heater, then less wear on it, because lubricating oil and metal gaps are at or near operating temperature before you even crank it, and less wasted fuel from cold starts, and less wasted fuel in general, because when that generator engine is on, it is doing work, charging batteries, not wasting fuel idling. So, a Series Hybrid, dramatically reduces the maintenance of an engine, while getting the most out of it. And if you don't want to deal with the maintenance, mess, and complications of an engine, then you can just have a pure Battery Electric Vehicle, with either fast charging ability, or swappable batteries. And yes, I'm aware, EVs that don't use hub motors, have to deal with gears & driveshafts. But isn't that alot better to deal with, then a whole multispeed gearbox? All this, is what I meant, with my original comment. I'm sick of the mess, and the things that can go wrong with a traditional engine & gearbox powertrain, for cars, bikes, and trains too. BEVs and Series Hybrids, are my future, mainly for the reduced maintenance, and much less to think about. And it's so much easier to modify an EV or Series Hybrid for more performance. Just programing in different Amp limits, and trading up to better parts. And of course, like old times, you can dive into the mysteries & complexity of getting everything in an engine to work together for more power. But at least you don't have the variable of shifting & wearing so many gears.
@@harrimanfox8961 I forgot to mention. With my metal-braking-shoe-on-tire-tread idea, the shoes are either a part of the unsprung weight components of the suspension, pushed into stopped tired by air/hydraulic pressure, or, the parking shoes are a part of the sprung chassis, above the tires, and an airbag or hydraulic suspension just lowers the vehicle weight onto the tires, beyond the bumpstop of the normal suspension stroke, so the vehicle's weight, is what's locking the tires in place, for parking on a hill. This for parking, and powerful Regen Braking for stopping, is my solution to delete the wasteful and costly traditional brake systems for non-railroad land vehicles.
Diesel Locomotive is powering the world, it is a train! I never realized, I just click on random videos blindly. I'm your target audience, talk to me like someone that has never seen the sun.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan PLYMOUTH LOCOMOTIVES ARE ALL MECHANICAL DRIVE, BUT VERY FEW EXIST! THIS IS NOT THE LATE PLYMOUTH DIVISION OF CHRYSLER CORPORATION HOWEVER!
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan I believe the BUDD RDC is a diesel mechanical railcar. You mentioned railcars in passing in the video at one point. Budd RDC top speed was 85 mph, not bad. There are quite a few other diesel mechanical locomotives & railcars, mostly historical. I believe that even the modern railcars made by US Railcar are diesel mechanical & quite quick as well.
@@rossbryan6102 Wikipedia says Plymouth built about 7000 locomotives, of which about 1400 are still in existence. I don't know how many of those are in the US, but I'm guessing it's most of them.
The Budd RDC had a wwii tank diesel by GM , 6-110 and an automatic transmission. The later SPV-2000 by Budd had a 8-92 truck/ bus engine and transmission.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan Collars are sliding clutches. Gear you said was 1st that low gear and gear you said was 2nd thats 1st gear. Don't shift aux box to high range for 3 to 4 either. It's 1st -4th gear, put aux box in high range back through main box again 5th -8th and in High range you can split each gear (overdrive). Next you will say thats 12 gears yes but low gear still forward gear in low range that 13 speeds. In theory you can in high range put in low gear position and split it but ratios don't exactly come out right. 18 speed you can split gears in low and high range. Shift knob is early style where one button controls high/low range cyl and direct/overdrive cyl. Later style separated this out to 2 buttons because of 18 speed trans. Fun fact on early RTO transmissions like one in video. Owners swapped drive gears and 3rd gear set around making it overdrive in main box. But it messed up H shift pattern so it's up, back, over back again and then up. OR you put late style shift bar housing on putting it back to normal H pattern. Now Eaton makes them all this way with O/D in main box now.
@@pdmustgtd1013He explained an old style 13 speed. Had same one in an international dump truck. No spitting gears in high side. Low range shift 1-3 intermediate range 4-8 overdrive 9-13. No low hole so you use all 5 gear postions in intermediate and overdrive
@@Matt-ou1bg I know how old style worked and its still the same on new style. Old style was 1 switch doing 2 operations and new style has 2 switches each doing 1 operation. You are splitting gears on high side only but not on low side all 13 speeds work this way. (splitting gears is direct and overdrive not the range). NO you don't have to split each gear on high side either. Most people drive 13 or even 18 speed like 10 speed and only splitting last gear into overdrive. Only 18 speed can you split low side. SIDE NOTE I have put old style shift knob on newer trans because driver wanted old school look. Still works the same way but only using 1 switch
@pdmustgtd1013 I used wrong terminology. I shouldn't have said old style. On the 613 and 6613 guys around my parts call them straight 13's. 3 ranges no spitting. My 78 international had straight 13. My 1980 freightliner has 9513 in it. It had 2 separate switches. Round chrome knob for splitting and high low on pull switch mounted to shifter stick. I did convert that to new style. My point was he was explaining the straight style 13 speed
I don’t like it, but that’s coming from a railfan standpoint. From an economic standpoint it’s not half bad because it makes shipping stuff from Chicago to Mexico a lot more efficient, and probably cheaper.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan That small piece of video was taken at Boston Docks on the East coast of the UK (That's the Boston that the 'Mayflower' sailed from on her way with the Pilgrim Fathers to America centuries ago.) We used to have steel coil come into the dock from Europe, then trans-ship onto empty steel carrying trains which were formed into rakes for a mainline loco. to take around 150 miles to Birmingham in the Midlands. I have driven D2112 on a small number of occasions when working at the dock.
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Small mistake on my part. The big red German locomotive that makes a couple appearances in the video is a diesel hydraulic locomotive, not diesel mechanical.
...saved me explaining this and ripping you a second fart pipe 😉
a diesel hydraulic still is mostly mechanical drive though
@@MiG21aholic yes and no. The things being used to move the hydraulic fluid are mechanical, but ultimately it’s the fluid that’s transmitting all the power from the engine to the wheels.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan via mechanical gearboxes and driveshafts, yes ;) haha
Yes, V200 class. The early Class 42 locomotives (named after Warships or admirals) in the UK were our equivalent of the V200 but crammed into our smaller loading gauge. They look quite similar.
The class 03 switcher (shunter) you show at Barrow Hill has a 5 speed box and max speed of 28mph. You are right about taking care changing gears, I had a go driving one and was told not to go straight from gear to gear but wait between each change for the fluid clutch to clunk. They use compressed air to shift the collars so you do not feel each gear disengage and engage in the next one.
Have driven a Cl.14 at Barrow Hill several years ago, and 'Mayflower'.
Hi, Class 03/04/05 have an Epicyclic gearbox that uses a brake band & sun and planet wheels, compressed air operates a cylinder to close the brake band and engage drive to each gear, 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 5th gears are indirect drive through the box, whereas 4th gear is direct drive (it locks all 4 gears), this is coupled to the engine via a fluid flywheel, Diesel railcars use a 4 speed box, but they have a free wheel as well to allow them to coast with the throttle closed.
@@TechnoJonny Thanks for the info. I only have a basic idea of how the gears work and what I was told not to do by the driver of the 03. I went under a DMU at a depot open day and the fitter showed me how the prop shaft was free to turn in one direction by hand and not in the other. He said about it being so the unit could coast in gear and being unable to use the gears to hold it on a gradient as you can with a road vehicle. It was years ago but if I remember right when the unit changes direction the prop shaft moves towards the front or rear of the car with compressed air to engage in the gears for the other direction. I think it was a class 101 blue square coded unit we were under but I guess they all worked in the same way.
@@TechnoJonny Very succinctly put! The mysteries of an epicyclic gear train explained in a few simple sentences.
When I was employed on the Huckleberry RR as track foreman, I used a 12-ton Plymouth diesel-mechanical loco with a D8 Cat engine, 4-speed transmission with a clutch, and a forward and reverse. It had 1.1mph in 1st up to 12.5 mph in 4th in F and R. The final drive was No. 200 roller chain from the transmission to each axle.
Im almost certain i drove an airport tug with this diesel mechanical drive system
Its was hella slow but hella powerful
I never did get to look under its hood, but it had 3 semi automatic gears with a 1, 2, 3 lever
It was like a block of concrete filled with engine block, fitted with monster truck wheels, it was a beast, but you could probably crawl along the floor faster than it drove
One of the querks to this was, you could put it in gear 3, line it up on the centre of the runway, put a brick on the gas pedal, tie the steering wheel to the seat, step out, get in your pickup truck, drive the pickup truck down to the other end of the runway, have a half hour break, and it still wouldn't have got to you 😂 and you could hear it before you saw it, man that thing was loud, you could hear it over the top of everything else on the airfield, it was louder than planes landing
My boss once dragged a 747 with the brakes on with it
It could well have been a hydraulic drive, yano, the gear shifter changing slides in a valve block, and the motor just coupled direct to a hydraulic pump, and a hydraulic motor on each axle?
I dunno 🤷♂️😂
That’s crazy! Cool story, man.
Years ago a buddy of mine bought an old small town airport tug rig. It wasn't much bigger than a golf cart but it weighed about 3 tons.
@@tcmtech7515 yes i can imagine that, this one i drove was like a house on mining truck wheels, it was like an enormous concrete block with an engine buried in the middle
that transmission is what you'd call a powershift..it essentially works the same way an automatic transmission does but without the automatic part. each gear (or planetary gear set)has its own hydraulic clutch. the shift lever (either mechanically or electronically) opens a valve that sends oil to that clutch, which locks the gear to the shaft. these transmission are usually found with torque converters on construction/industrial machines, usually with 3 or 4 speeds. however, you can find these transmissions with up to 24 speeds on tractors, which do not use torque converters due to the higher loads with closer ratios.
I'm glad I found your channel as I could listen to you discuss trains all day long. Subbed.
Thank you so much!
There was also an example of a locomotive with lever-operated friction clutch used in Czechoslovakia on narow-gauge.
Any plans for making a video about gas turbine trains (IE things like the Union Pacific GTEL, English Electric GT3, UAC turbo train, and things like that)?
Not at the moment. I have some video ideas for some really obscure experimental diesel locomotives, though.
Technically, you weren't wrong saying engineering tolerances are in microns. Although they tend to be given in mm, they're usually on the order of 10 to 100 microns for things like automotive and rail engines and transmissions.
In the UK we have some Diesel Mechanical DMUs with top speeds of a 100mph.
Hmmm, seems that Turbine Wheel is similar to the old Fluid Drive Trans in some of the 1947 Cars. DeSoto for example. But, anyway, I still remember as a kid hearing that Steam Loco rolling thru the night and that whistle piercing the night at the crossings. Miss that.
There are also small two axle shunters without any torque converters. They have a pneumatically operated clutch from a heavy duty truck. The gearbox is 4-speed with a reverse, in order to drive in both directions at the same speed. Such locomotives require skill on the side of the operator, he has to handle the pneumatic clutch lever with care and at the same time increase the engine RPM. Such shunters are not in use anymore, or at least I do not know of any. But there were purely mechanical systems without any fluid coupling. Then there was a electromechanical drive. Electric motors to get the train up to speed, then a clutch mechanism, directly connecting the engines to the wheels.
Have you ever heard about locomotive M 290.0, known as "Slovenská Strela"? It has hybrid engine. It have combined the diesel-electric and diesel mechanical engine. At low speeds the train was moved by diesel-electric engine and after it reached around 80 km/h, the engine mode was swtiched to diesel mechanical mode.
I was very pleased to see many British locomotives. Especially 10100 "The Fell" diesel mechanical. A machine that I know inside out. 😅
Awesome video. The hyundai pictired likley has an automatically shifting gearbox with a computer controlled autmatic duel clutch. No torque converter or fluid coupling
Cool video
Thanks!
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan Welcome
Fascinating video, thanks for sharing! (Dave).
You’re welcome, I’m glad you liked it!
Thankyou sir❤️.
Thankyou for given this different with very interested information of mechanism in old Desel Locomotives ❤️
Very interesting video! Thank you very much.
My dad has driven a bus with an automatic manual transmission. It had 4 gears and no clutch pedal, the gears were switched by pressing buttons from 1 to 3 and a somewhat misleading D gear which was just the fourth gear and not some type of automatic gear. The weird thing is, 1st gear was almost never used, 2nd was used for starting, and the shift between 2nd 3rd and 4th (aka D) were stupidly short. The bus could comfortably drive in 4th at 15mph all the way up to its top speed. So I suspect it used a torque converter before the transmission.
I found your channel after putting time into Derail Valley simulator, which has all 3 types of diesel locomotives
DMU diesel multiple units are the big one I guess? Six cylinder Mercedes bus engine (because tilted over) Into a torque converter and clutch-pack gearbox. A drive shaft goes down to the bogie. All the engine stuff is on a removable raft pack under the body. They are very easy to change up to hybrid by popping a motor/generator between the engine and gearbox.
Nice video! This will help me when I railfan
Thanks! Happy to help you out!
I don’t really get the definitions of mechanical and hydraulic drive. Looking at the details, they both use very similar principles, being a fluid coupling to gearbox to a final drive. Only difference I can see is most diesel mechanicals seem to be manual in terms of shifting gears and diesel hydraulics are automatic. I just wonder if there’s any other noticeable difference.
The line is kinda grey between the different types, but in modern use "diesel hydraulic" usually refers to a locomotive or DMU only using hydrokinetic torque converters like the Voith Turbo Transmissions, while "diesel mechanical" usually refer to DMUs using automotive-type automatic transmissions like the ZF Ecolife rail.
The main difference between these two is that the Voith types change "gears" by filling and draining several different torque converters with hydraulic oil, allowing a smooth change under power, while the ZF "mechanical" gearboxes have a single torque converter followed by different types of planetary gearsets which allow the torque converter to run in its best RPM, just like in a car or bus. Simply put: Diesel hydraulics only use several torque converters as "gears", while mechanical have a single torque converter with a gearbox after it.
The modern diesel mechanical gearbox doesn't use a fluid coupling like the old types, because a torque converter works less like a clutch, but more like an infinite gearbox by having torque multiplication, which means you need less mechanical gears afterwards. This is also why automatic transmission cars historically needed fewer gears than mechanical transmissions, because the torque converter did much of the gearbox "work" itself.
@@kristenburnout1 That is pretty cool. The name really makes sense with that explanation. Thanks so much.
@@kristenburnout1 While the Voith transmission is the most used hydraulic drive some classes like the earlier German V200 and the British Warship and Hymek used the Mekydro gearbox, and this one was pretty much like an automotive automatic gearbox.
They have one torque converter and 4 planetary gears.
The difference can be noticed, while the gearchanges on a Warship or Hymek feel a bit jerky the gear change on a Western which has Voith transmissions is totally smooth.
Your confusion stems from the fact that the definition of diesel-mechanical was apparently reinvented for and in this thread for the first time.
Diesel-mechanical locos are by definition locos with engine, some clutch, sometimes gears(boxes), the wheels driven at the end either by chains or - more modern - driven via cardan shafts.
The class of DMs is in the end quite small because they are small locomotives existing only in small numbers - mechanical transmission is not good at transmitting large power, so it is not used in large locomotives.
So the big stuff is all DH - no matter how it's built. They all have gearboxes, but there are no mechanical clutches because they are too weak. Hydrostatic drives are used for work machines and long-track runners whose speed has to be infinitely variable. And these are not mechanical drives either, even if they contain parts of mechanical drives such as gearboxes etc.
To put it simply: With the new definition of diesel-mechanical, someone is trying to create a monument for himself. Completely unnecessary.
@@pearlyhumbucker9065 I can see that.
Funny seeing machines from the UK and Germany...
The Bombadier Vlocity VLine trains in the state of Victoria, Australia are diesel mechanical. They are like a metro train with multiple Big diesels coupled to Allison automatic transmissions at each end of the train. Our state still has a fair bit of heavy industry manufacturing that has survived globalisation and free trade. I believe part of the reason diesel mechanical was used is because Kenworth and a few other truck and heavy haul companies have factories nearby and because these passenger trains have been in constant production since 2003 it made sense to use the existing supply chains. The trains being entirely passenger service are also pretty light and they are pretty fast too traveling at 160KMh for much of their journies (100MPH) a lot of people live in the second largest city, Geelong and catch the Vline train into the capital, Melbourne everyday for work and it'sfaster than driving.
They are very nice trains to be on and the fares are now capped at a maximum of $9.20 a day to go between any 2 points of the entire state. You could cover more than 400KM about 300 miles by train in a day and spend less than 10 bucks Australian or about 6 bucks US.
Incorrect, it uses a hydraulic transmission. They use Voith hydraulic transmissions, not Allison automatic mechanical gearboxes. It seems the older Sprinter railmotors are the same (but with a different model of Voith transmission)
Diesel-mechanical is rarely seen in standard gauge passenger rollingstock, except for some old British railcars that used a system of tightening bands to engage different gears, and also the heritage railways that use a diesel shunter to pull tourists around a small loop.
There seems to be some confusion about the Vlocity VLine trains, their technology and their history:
It ś Diesel-hydrauic propulsion, not diesel-mechanical, the latter consisting of engine, clutch, gearbox, chains or today cardan shafts.
Nor does the technology originate from the truck. The Cummins QSK19R with its 750 hp is certainly much bigger than the biggest truck engines of its time and it is also marketed as a locomotive engine.
The Voith T312 is developed for railway operation, for high performance in combination with high speeds - both specifications that have no relevance in truck operation.
The idea that the material comes from truck construction is typically American, but in the light of day it is nonsense.
Also, the railcars are basically not Bombardier. The order was placed woth ADTRANZ in Kassel - Daimler-Benz was involved and the factory is the old HENSCHEL plant.
Interestingly, Bombardier Transportation was headquartered in Kassel. So you have to ask yourself how much Bombardier was in there.
In any case, it's one thing to talk about names. Because - Bombardier is also history now, it's ALSTOM now.
I like these videos
Thank you!
In Sweden we have diesel mechanical locomotives with a
4 speed gearbox with a clutch
Please add a link to Pt. 1 I the description
Cool video!
Thanks!
This high maintenance, inefficiency, and amount of things to go wrong, is why I hate tradition powertrains in cars & bikes. My future is full of homemade Battery-Electric-Vehicles and Series-Hybrids. I just want something that just works, so I can enjoy the other parts of my life. Not loose so much time to maintenance & repairs. And stressing out over maintenance schenduals and waiting for something to still go wrong.
tell me you know Jack shit about mechanical technology without telling me you know Jack shir about mechanical technology
@@harrimanfox8961
Well then, maybe you can educate me on Mechanical Technology.
@@harrimanfox8961
With a hub motor Electric Vehicle, like an Electric Motorcycle, the only mechanical things I have to worry about, are the motor bearings, suspension bearings, steering bearings, contactor/relays, any key holes not replaced by a wireless keyfob or tap, any latches and hinges for compartments & luggage, the tires, aaaaand the controls like the throttle potentiometer and brake lever switches.
And Brake Regeneration is so effective, that traditional brake pads & rotors literally rust away, from how little they are used, leading EV manufacturers recommending occasionally braking hard, beyond Regen, to scrub rust off the rotors.
And I believe there should be metallic brake-shoes, with teeth, directly holding the tires for parking, because Brake-Regen only works when the wheels are moving, from the physical resistance of the electromagnetic forces.
Since the tires are a wear item that are likely the most replaced thing on an EV, then the vehicle might as well directly hold the tire treads, with durable, long lasting stainless steel teeth, that won't flatten or shred the tires, just hold them for parking on a hill.
My point is, all the mechanical things on an EV, last a very long time, and are inexpensive to replace, and most of them don't even cripple the vehicle, if they fail.
Then we get into Series-Hybrids, which are just EVs with onboard generators to charge or combine with the batteries. I declare, Series-Hybrids are the best option, because they give you the best of both worlds, the instant torque & stealth of electric, but the convenience of fuel. You just have to pick a time where you have to stop, or ride slow enough, for the generator to charge the batteries, AND, power the drive motors.
The stronger the generator, the faster the charge time and top speed while charging. You don't have to look for or wait for a plug, and because the engine is only turning a generator, then it can be kept at it's most powerful, or most efficient RPM, even better then a CVT vehicle, and there is no clutch to wear out, no transmission to wear out, no gear-shifts to fumble over, and if the engine has a block heater, then less wear on it, because lubricating oil and metal gaps are at or near operating temperature before you even crank it, and less wasted fuel from cold starts, and less wasted fuel in general, because when that generator engine is on, it is doing work, charging batteries, not wasting fuel idling.
So, a Series Hybrid, dramatically reduces the maintenance of an engine, while getting the most out of it.
And if you don't want to deal with the maintenance, mess, and complications of an engine, then you can just have a pure Battery Electric Vehicle, with either fast charging ability, or swappable batteries.
And yes, I'm aware, EVs that don't use hub motors, have to deal with gears & driveshafts. But isn't that alot better to deal with, then a whole multispeed gearbox?
All this, is what I meant, with my original comment. I'm sick of the mess, and the things that can go wrong with a traditional engine & gearbox powertrain, for cars, bikes, and trains too.
BEVs and Series Hybrids, are my future, mainly for the reduced maintenance, and much less to think about. And it's so much easier to modify an EV or Series Hybrid for more performance. Just programing in different Amp limits, and trading up to better parts. And of course, like old times, you can dive into the mysteries & complexity of getting everything in an engine to work together for more power. But at least you don't have the variable of shifting & wearing so many gears.
@@harrimanfox8961
I forgot to mention.
With my metal-braking-shoe-on-tire-tread idea, the shoes are either a part of the unsprung weight components of the suspension, pushed into stopped tired by air/hydraulic pressure, or, the parking shoes are a part of the sprung chassis, above the tires, and an airbag or hydraulic suspension just lowers the vehicle weight onto the tires, beyond the bumpstop of the normal suspension stroke, so the vehicle's weight, is what's locking the tires in place, for parking on a hill.
This for parking, and powerful Regen Braking for stopping, is my solution to delete the wasteful and costly traditional brake systems for non-railroad land vehicles.
So how many miles to overhaul on diesel electric vs mechanical?
Cool video. I'm too familiar with US Locomotives lol
Thanks! So am I, lol, idk any international engines that aren’t US exports
Many north american rail vehicles have identical transmissions to what semi trucks have. Dry clutches and in some cases multi stick transmissions.
Hmm that is the first time I’ve seen a 13 speed with a 3 position switch
Eaton RTOF-9513 was one. I've seen a shift knob for one that had low, int, dir.
What 13-speed transmission is that? I have never heard of one that used that particular shift pattern.
It’s a Road Ranger, I’m not sure when it was made, though.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan I was curious because I have driven about everything made from the 1940's on up and that shift pattern was a new one to me.
Was this narrated by Huckleberry Hound?
how does it look like wen you frick up the gearbox?
Good one but elborate on dynamic brakes in your first video
I love your voice!
Thank you!
Diesel mechanical is my favorite kind of diesel
that iooks like a road ranger tranney
Diesel Locomotive is powering the world, it is a train!
I never realized, I just click on random videos blindly.
I'm your target audience, talk to me like someone that has never seen the sun.
lmao, alright!
We both know there were diesel-mechanical trains in the UK, but were there ever any in the US?
Not that I know of. Maybe there were and still are a few units on scenic railroads or in museums, but I don’t know of any large railroads using them.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan PLYMOUTH LOCOMOTIVES ARE ALL MECHANICAL DRIVE, BUT VERY FEW EXIST!
THIS IS NOT THE LATE PLYMOUTH DIVISION OF CHRYSLER CORPORATION HOWEVER!
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan I believe the BUDD RDC is a diesel mechanical railcar. You mentioned railcars in passing in the video at one point. Budd RDC top speed was 85 mph, not bad. There are quite a few other diesel mechanical locomotives & railcars, mostly historical. I believe that even the modern railcars made by US Railcar are diesel mechanical & quite quick as well.
@@rossbryan6102 Wikipedia says Plymouth built about 7000 locomotives, of which about 1400 are still in existence. I don't know how many of those are in the US, but I'm guessing it's most of them.
In Greek rail yards
Relatable.
Good video, except the V200 you show at the end is diesel hydraulic, not diesel mechanical
Correct -- see the pinned comment.
Micrometer is 1/100 of a Millimeter...
The Budd RDC had a wwii tank diesel by GM , 6-110 and an automatic transmission.
The later SPV-2000 by Budd had a 8-92 truck/ bus engine and transmission.
Gotta be careful of the types of locomotives 🚂
1/1000th of an inch..
That is just so dumb.
Move the comma one number, from cm to mm and you're there. It's that simple
The protest topic is valid, the method is childish
Way you explain truck 13 speed not even close to being right.
What did I say wrong?
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan Collars are sliding clutches. Gear you said was 1st that low gear and gear you said was 2nd thats 1st gear. Don't shift aux box to high range for 3 to 4 either. It's 1st -4th gear, put aux box in high range back through main box again 5th -8th and in High range you can split each gear (overdrive). Next you will say thats 12 gears yes but low gear still forward gear in low range that 13 speeds. In theory you can in high range put in low gear position and split it but ratios don't exactly come out right. 18 speed you can split gears in low and high range. Shift knob is early style where one button controls high/low range cyl and direct/overdrive cyl. Later style separated this out to 2 buttons because of 18 speed trans.
Fun fact on early RTO transmissions like one in video. Owners swapped drive gears and 3rd gear set around making it overdrive in main box. But it messed up H shift pattern so it's up, back, over back again and then up. OR you put late style shift bar housing on putting it back to normal H pattern. Now Eaton makes them all this way with O/D in main box now.
@@pdmustgtd1013He explained an old style 13 speed. Had same one in an international dump truck. No spitting gears in high side. Low range shift 1-3 intermediate range 4-8 overdrive 9-13. No low hole so you use all 5 gear postions in intermediate and overdrive
@@Matt-ou1bg I know how old style worked and its still the same on new style. Old style was 1 switch doing 2 operations and new style has 2 switches each doing 1 operation. You are splitting gears on high side only but not on low side all 13 speeds work this way. (splitting gears is direct and overdrive not the range). NO you don't have to split each gear on high side either. Most people drive 13 or even 18 speed like 10 speed and only splitting last gear into overdrive. Only 18 speed can you split low side.
SIDE NOTE I have put old style shift knob on newer trans because driver wanted old school look. Still works the same way but only using 1 switch
@pdmustgtd1013 I used wrong terminology. I shouldn't have said old style. On the 613 and 6613 guys around my parts call them straight 13's. 3 ranges no spitting. My 78 international had straight 13. My 1980 freightliner has 9513 in it. It had 2 separate switches. Round chrome knob for splitting and high low on pull switch mounted to shifter stick. I did convert that to new style. My point was he was explaining the straight style 13 speed
liar liar border zar inflation queen Inflation not gouging TRUMP2024
What do you think about cpkc
I don’t like it, but that’s coming from a railfan standpoint. From an economic standpoint it’s not half bad because it makes shipping stuff from Chicago to Mexico a lot more efficient, and probably cheaper.
That was my old Boss driving D2112!
That’s cool!
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan That small piece of video was taken at Boston Docks on the East coast of the UK (That's the Boston that the 'Mayflower' sailed from on her way with the Pilgrim Fathers to America centuries ago.) We used to have steel coil come into the dock from Europe, then trans-ship onto empty steel carrying trains which were formed into rakes for a mainline loco. to take around 150 miles to Birmingham in the Midlands. I have driven D2112 on a small number of occasions when working at the dock.
cool🚝🚂🚃🚃
Thanks!