Dylan, this is pro quality. I served until I became disabled. This was the best thing I've seen to illustrate the reality of volunteers. Excellent work
You have to put in so much time to become qualified. Just like a paid firefighter would be. People just aren't interested in that. I had a full time job, started my Paramedic training and after 1 month I dropped out. Was just going to be too time consuming. I was involved in other activities and full time job. like so many areas it will be paid from 6am to 6pm weekdays and have 3 man crews. The other help will come from volunteers. that means tax increases and people will complain.
Ex volunteer here, became quickly disenchanted with station politics and the bickering that went with it. I couldn’t trust many fellow volunteers enough to go into a fire with them. Our station was shut-down due to multi-town politics…
Dylan, Great commentary. Society has changed! Volunteering is not as important to people, than it used to be. Sad, but true!! EMS in the 1970's has gone over the top, 2024. Lots of training, to do more, with less people! I was a volunteer for almost thirty years. Learned a lot, helped a lot people that needed it. But there is a limit on any person, for time & effort! Inflation & more calls will continue, until tje bell rings, and no one shows up! I hope that day never comes, but it looks more likely! Thank you for your work & the efforts of all the Vol Firefighters of NYS!
Ex-volley checking in. I left because of two main reasons - 1.) Drama and 2.) Started a family and between raising two young kids and a full-time job, I just don't have the time to commit to weekly training, let alone actually be available to run calls. Honestly though, it's the drama that REALLY drove me away. Unfortunately, for every one good guy in the volunteer fire service, there's like 3 assholes. I've seen MANY good guys driven out by these clowns. Nobody ever talks about that in these "Why the volunteer fire service is dying" stories - the drama in volley departments is BAD and has been for a while. Paid departments have drama too - the difference is you're paid and you can deal with it a lot easier. As a volley, you're not getting paid to deal with assholes and why should you stay and be around people like that? Most of the guys who were active when I started 20 years ago also left and never returned. We ALL miss getting on the truck to go help people - none of us miss the drama though and that alone is responsible for MANY good ex-vollies from leaving and not coming back.
I was a volunteer firefighter. I received the best education in the fire service during my time. Joined to serve the community and I had a sense of purpose. As a volunteer firefighter you learn about life's trials and tribulations. It is a shame what happened to the volunteer fire service. The economy and other social issues has caused this volunteer model to become a memory. We used to talk at the Suffolk Fire Academy about the future this video shows what we discussed.. I miss my brothers and sisters in the Fire service on long Island. We were a part of something noble and now it is Going away. Great video 👍
Excellent work on the video. The volunteer fire service has been dealing with recruitment and retention problems for years. The institution of a retirement benefit seemed to help for a little while. However, it's not enough in today's economy. People don't have the time that is required for mandated training, drills, and call requirements to remain active. Balancing family, work, and finances are taking more time out of our lives. This diminishes volunteering time for much of anything. The Volunteer Fire and EMS services save taxpayers and insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. It would be wise to take a closer look at saving these services in our communities. (Nationally Certified Fire Instructor NYSOFPC Ret. Former Big Tree VFC FF/EMT).
It saves way more than just hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. You are looking at at min. $150,000 per year for a paid FF in total compensation/benefits x9 for staffing a 4 man house with 3 shifts (and then factor in higher pay % for your Capt x3 and Chief position). Despite the IAFF grift/butthurt a lot of communities cannot fund a paid dept and the call volume doesn't justify a paid dept anyway.
I got my start volunteering as a medic ( paid out of pocket to go to EMT school ) with my local towns FD. There has been a change in mindset in this country. The current citizenry seems more obsessed with video games, and online "culture" than actually trying to make a difference and find a way to give back to their communities. We are so lost in this country right now, though. . . I fear volunteer fire fighters ( and the resulting lack, thereof ) will soon be the least of our worries. Great video though! As others have stated already, I too miss my brothers and sisters in the services. Sad times. kinda makes ya regret living this long. . .
As a volunteer firefighter myself, I can understand that, but you have to understand that we have families to take care of and we also have a job to take care of being on Department does not put food on the table or put a roof over your head.!!!
A local Volunteer Fire Department near me had the same problem with manpower. They first hired a full-time Fire Chief, 3 Captains and 3 Engineers and used young Volunteers for Firefighters who wanted the experience to become full-time Firefighters at a Large Department. Approximately 5 years later, they hired 3 full-time Firefighters. Two years after that the City contracted with the County Fire Department and every Fire Department employee was hired rank for rank. They went from making less than 75K per year, to well over 200K a year with overtime and the choice of dozens of Fire Stations to work at. It wasn't an easy process for them to go from Volunteers to Full-time Firefighters at a Major Fire Department with a HUGE budget. But they pulled it off by selecting and supporting City Council Members that wanted a Large Professional Fire Department. Definitely something to think about doing!!
I can almost guarantee you that the taxes went up in that town .Salaries and benefits don't come cheap . People say that you can't put a price on public safety , maybe , but there is a price and the taxpayer is on the hook for it . Police and fire are the biggest expenses in any municipal budget .
Genesee county New York fireman and I agree with everything in this video but a major thing that is left out is drama. I run calls with neighboring departments and I’ve noticed that every department has drama. I have spoken to members that don’t attend trainings or attend an average of 5-10 calls a year and all of their answers have been the drama has pushed them out. There is also a major problem with cliques or groups that back stab. When I joined 9 years ago it was a family now the entire volunteer fire service seems to be based off of a game of favoritism.
Very, VERY well said!! I served as a vol. FF for about 8 years. I was there for the right reasons; to give back to my community and be there for people who were having the worst time of their lives. I did my very best and put as much time into it as I could. However, there was a clique that annoyed many of us is so many ways, that ended up causing me to leave. The ones who always wanted the latest and greatest! The ones who wanted new LED lights on the apparatus when the LED’s that were on the apparatus worked totally fine but they may have not be the newest, just an example. They were the ones who never showed up at the fundraisers, until they were all done just so they could hangout and use the AC, Wi-fi, etc. They had to have all the lest blue lights on their personal vehicles. It was all about them!!! I took some time off, hoping it would diminish. Went back and still the same BS! I miss it so much, but realized like you said there isn’t many FD’s, volunteer especially that are truly a family brotherhood anymore. It’s very sad.
Just like there's drama and politics in every organization from the Rotary to the Chamber of Commerce . Paid fire departments have drama and politics also with their labor unions thrown into the mix for good measure .
Former VA volunteer firefighter I had the same experience with drama in the station. From, favoring a few firefighters to full on diverse groups. It didn’t seem like we were family, not to mention they never could get my name right even with showing up for training, assisting events, pulling duty, etc. Ultimately I whined up resigning, I still miss it very much. Served for two years.
40 year volunteer. Our volunteer department closed in July. We ran almost 350 calls a year. There was 2 of us trying to hold it togather.No man power. We were not a tax base department. We survived on subscribers and grants. Subscribers literally dried up because of economy. Now the neighboring departments pick up the calls. Sad..
Why? Why is being a “volunteer” no longer in vogue? Simply put, being a volunteer has become, voluntold. You have to commit to x number of hours in-house training. You have to sit x numbers of duty at x location. You will have to commit to x number of hours a month and then x number of hours per year. You also have to sign this hold-free statement because we are not responsible for you getting hurt or dying. You have to sign here for your equipment, and by the way, if you trash it, you have to replace it with your own cash. It goes on and on…
160+FF1 training hours plus weekly training + the monthly meeting +fund raising + community functions all for free and now they are deciding that there needs to be more training. And they wonder why the spirit is dead? I HAVE BEEN A VOLLY since 1976 and career since 1980. The first training, a whole 30 hours began when I had was out behind the station learning how to use a brush truck hose and 2 days later the structure engines hoses. Things have sure changred since then.
Since 2020 nearly all volunteer based organizations in Southern California are scrambling to recruit & retain volunteers. Part of it is competition with so many activities, partly exorbitant costs of living driving people away and generational shifts away from "joining" groups.
Most of the risk is on the volunteer with very little reward and if you have a problem, they treat it like it's your own problem to deal with. In an economy where 60 hours a week is common just to get by with extra spending money, nobody has the time or energy to put in another 4-10 for calls without some form of compensation
With that call volume I'm wondering why they do not become a career fire department the politicians in that town need to step up and look at what they need to do in order to make that transition. If there is that much of a call volume then that department needs to be a career department not a volunteer department
That's easy to say, but you have no idea what their tax base is. Full time staffing is incredibly expensive, and their tax rolls may not support it. It took our department years to build up to be able to staff 2 ambulances with dual certified staff (Firefighter/Paramedic) 24/7/365 and we still rely on mutual aid for major structure fires. I first joined our department in 1979 as a volunteer and still run today as a driver/engineer and our yearly call volume is on pace to top 1000. The state and federal governments waste billions every year on bluntly stupid items. They need to support fire and EMS services as much as they support their "agendas."
Lately NY has put out that all volunteers will have to do all duties on the fire ground. That will limit volunteers available, consolidation of stations and longer response times (higher insurance??) I was a vollie up in Jefferson County NY for 20+ years with 2 departments. At My age I am unable to help anymore. I miss the vollies in both departments enough that I have a scanner on 24/7. Right now some ambulance squads are struggling (mostly billing reimbursements). We have needed full-time EMS for quite awhile.
@@mrfirefighter360 interior, scene support, pump operator and EMS. They want paid firemen like the cities have now. That's what I liked about my time as a volunteer, you could for the most part specialize in what you were comfortable with on the fireground.
@@philrogers8160 I understand the plight. We had a guy that could pump a fire flow from damn near a rock. But I sure wasn't having him come up on the roof with me, all 350 lbs of his 5'9".
I wonder how many volunteer departments are looking at how tney can offer a place to live in exchange for a certain amount of dedicated volunteer availability.
I began service to the community at the age of fourteen and this is nothing new. I just know that neighboring departments used to be competitive by nature and now they have consolidated. Fact is.., when someone needs the fire department, they don’t care which name is painted on the apparatus as long as someone shows up.
I have always thought that the men and women of the Fire/Ems service should be compensated to a degree that makes it worth their while to being a member and the fact that they want to participate is in itself a commitment to community. Everyone sees the red trucks with the flashing lights and the people that get out of them to help their fellow man, but it's what they don't see that makes them special. Most folks don't have a clue as to what each individual has to go through to become an EMT or firefighter. The time they give and the sacrifices they make to serve their community is beyond measure to their dedication. Not only should they be compensated for their time, they all should enjoy the added benefit of a pension after so many years of service,
Volunteer Fire and Ambulance crews have become abused. Why is a fully crewed Fire apparatus needed to sit in the local airport parking lot when a medivac helicopter is making a pickup and charging the patient 20k for the service? Try calling a doctor's office on a Saturday, Sunday, or holiday. You will get a recorded message telling you to call 911. Also, volunteer ambulance crews are forbidden to give any medical advice or warn patients of dangerous doctors. in addition to the frivolous calls, false alarms, or people calling 911 for nonemergencies.
Where I'm from, central MN, the local volunteer FD said guys are too busy with their own lives to have time...extra cirruculars for kids, long work hours, doing bar league sports kr karate... people getting degrees online...no free time.
Three calls a day is not sustainable for a volunteer department regardless of how many people you have. Even if it can be split into shifts: if I, personally, have to run out 2-4 times a week at random times, and attend regular training sessions, it makes it kind of hard to hold down a job and family/personal life. The "three calls a day" are going to be medical-related: guaranteed. It's time to involve professional services at that point: either the department staffs a pro ambulance crew, or enters into some sort of contract with a local ambulance company, or medical center, to provide a professional EMS response. The base premise of volunteer fire companies was about keeping the town from burning to the ground, and that was it. Around the 1970's, EMS in the fire service started taking off, and taking over the call volume on pro and volunteer fire departments.
Alot has to do with availability of time. With the amount of hrs training that is required people just have that time. Also it comes down to leadership if you have bad l leadership that effects the moral and the desire to be there. I know where I use to be the leadership was so bad that we lost 4 members that were there all the time as well as others who just decided to not be around as much.
I will get hate for this but... You are correct, there are too many regulations that require too much time. We are volunteer, we give up our time pretty much anytime of the day 365 days a year.
This is an excellent video and is a shining light and shows the how and why volunteer firefighting isn't working. I feel that its not quite 100% fully the answer. I tried being a paid on call myself I did everything perfect passed all the tests accept for one that is required by the state. Its a 8 hour 600 question in total psychiatric evaluation of continuously the same questions asked by 6 different tests. After the test, they have a psychologist interview you for about an hour. So many people that can be qualified candidates get thrown out cause of this test required by the state its hurting the volunteer fire departments and paid-on-call sector. However, after they get thrown out so many of them end up joining the military just fine and have an outstanding tenure for the same service they could of done on a local level in their community with paid-on-call. Might just be my opinion and one change the state and local government could do away with that would help with recruiting for paid-on-call and volunteer fire fighting.
Well said. Look back over the decades when training was minimal. You joined on the “good old boy network” where the fire department in most towns & hamlets was a social club. There was no academy training and the new members learned from the senior staff. Psychological testing wasn’t even heard of, let alone having to meet with a psychiatrist. The system worked and there were more people who wanted to sign up than there were openings for firefighters. You may have heard of the occasional volunteer firefighter who would get involved in some arson in order to be able to respond and be the hero for a day,but that really wasn’t a huge issue. People did the job without stealing and other malfeasance. (Of course there were incidents but not many overall) Now they seem to want reasons to deny someone a chance to serve, they turn away fully capable candidates over some ridiculous issue that has no basis. I just don’t understand how the volunteer system worked so well in years before without outside interference, but now with the state, the Feds and other agencies involved it’s so complicated. They didn’t need psychological testing back then , so why now? What changed? What is the big need all of a sudden?
Common sense first once money is involved that’s the end of volunteers 2 separate ems and firefighters and the more regulation you put in the more people you will lose Why volunteer when volunteer do more training than paid firefighters do yes as a volunteer you aren’t perfect but the job gets done and last get rid of the lawyers and politicians who look to make everything harder for the volunteers
Former volunteer firefighter, no longer involved because of insane politics, zero accountability and widespread intense incompetence. Get ready, it’s going to get worse!
Society has changed. Economically, geographically, morally, ethically, essentially society jas fundementally changed forever. Both parents work at least one job. Many people don't know all the people on their block and feel no sense of community. No obligation to jelp others in need. Its time for paid fire service and EMS! You don't hear of volunteer police departments. So why should fire and EMS be any different! If people can't volunteer, then it needs to necome a career for someone else.
The problem with volunteer departments is the majority, not all, but the majority of departments just let anyone on. They're not qualified both physically and education wise. They let kids join and these kids run out and buy lights off Amazon, slap them on their car then drive 100 mph down the road to a lift assist..a lot of other issues I've seen from vollie departments. No physical standards, no professional standards, etc.
There are many major issues plaguing the volunteer fire service in America...1 lack of time to dedicate to the dept 2 the good ole boys club 3 if you aren't liked by the right person they'll get you run out of the house 4 the amount of training hours required to be a basic entry level firefighter 5 lack of understanding when people can't dedicate as much time as some other people due to obligations and the unrealistic expectations that you should and have to put the fire house ahead of every single thing else in your life.. backstabbing, politics, etc are all compounding problems as well. . It makes it to where people would rather just avoid it and not have to deal with it
I back this comment 100% after experiencing the good old boy club mentality 11 years ago. Worked hard to become one of the most certified individuals on the department. About 6-7 years in myself and 2 other members were suspended for not completing a form to have our driving records checked. We had way too much passion for the department to risk being tossed because of a silly form that took 5 min to complete. Pretty sure this was a set up to oust me and my buddy because we had been against the purchase of a quint and were vocal on the issue. We believed older engines and tankers need to be prioritized 1st and that our mutual aid relationships had aerial trucks in two bordering jurisdictions. Leadership never gave notice or curtesy calls which seemed odd when there was already a huge struggle to get new members. We all filled appeals to overturn their decision and they denied my buddy and I but overturned the 3rd suspended member and allowed him to return. About 3 years later their new quint was delivered and today neither of us no longer serve as volunteer firefighters. Back then we were only in our 30’s and were interested in the future and taking this department in a good direction.
@Greg-iv1zc I've had it happen to me as well then the captain of said firehouse has the gall to post on social media quite frequently about how the volunteer fire service is in desperate need of volunteers and at the same time is the sole reason why so many people come and go through the doors and barely stay more then 6 months on the long end... I can't help but say to myself ( then stop running people out dickhead) every time I see him do it.. mine was likely because I spoke out against the engine room takin over control of the social hall/club/bar upstairs for the social only members over 21... that and speaking out against buddy boxes and having us added 1st due on alarms that would take us out of our 1st due as the only rescue in the are when the whole county has a total of 4 rescues for a total of 18 different twps and towns for false alarms and smells 99% of the time
Great documentary. First, you guys get a shit ton of snow, 😂. Been a vol now part time ff for30 years in ohio, with all the training equal to a full time ff, why do it for free?? Plus, with all the lawsuits you are exposed to for just helping your fellow neighbor we are nuts for leaving our house to be exposed to loosing everything you have worked for because of a lawsuit
Too fix problems pure simple pay on call,spend money on training,better equipment.Canada we start clean up house now most small town have 2 or 3 fireman on duty.Alberta clean up house 1990s due safety the province tough regulations now and rest canada saw it.😮
A valid point. Since most municipal fire departments have taken on EMS roles as well, the call volumes have ballooned, with the side effect of burning out the volunteer ranks. Some statistics I have seen are in the neighborhood of +80% of responses are EMS related nowadays. That puts a serious hardship on the personnel, and employers who allow their people to respond to those calls.
IMO the problem with getting volunteers is all the safety regulations and months and months of forever training required. Too many rules. Let men be men. This is no longer a volunteering position, this is a full time (move around slowly no hustling ever) unpaid unheroic kind of job. Boring AF. Most men wanna show off their athleticism, skill sets, and common sense. When I was a young kid, with smoke showing in the sky FF's carefully raced to a scene on a fire truck or personal vehicles and didn't walk around dragging out miles of useless hose before turning on water. On a fire call they worked together, used deck guns or hose reels off trucks for quick water on fire knock downs all while knowing another truck with more heroes was on its way to help out. Nobody used seatbelts they hung off the back ready, ready to step off the truck with an axe hose or ladder in hand. All heroes, and they felt they were heroes belonging to something exciting, a club, not oppressed pawns that too many chiefs get to train and train and train forever. It's like FF's are actually overly trained with 1000's of rules and actually get confused somewhat when they arrive on a scene. Nowadays they come off a fire truck and seem to stand around like soldiers waiting on simple orders. Also there never was these automatic alarm calls where everyone dresses up and drives quickly to a scene with no smoke no fire and nothing to do once there, It's like dummy practice runs and are a complete waste of volunteer FF's time. Important spare personal time that is. Fire fighting used to be fun, manly, and exciting to be a part of. Whoever got to the fire house first got to drive the trucks. Everyone was trained on driving instead of designated drivers always doing the driving. Driving the truck, that was the most exciting part. Complications ruined what used to be a feel good thing to do and to be a part of. Unfortunately nobody wants to volunteer to a boring volunteering job with waaaay too many rules that takes up almost all your spare time nowadays.
No unpaid professionals. This is why career guys look down volly system very disorganized know it all cowboys. No volly departments have good ISO ratings people don't give a shit until they need ya. Career all the way.
Dylan, this is pro quality. I served until I became disabled. This was the best thing I've seen to illustrate the reality of volunteers. Excellent work
You have to put in so much time to become qualified. Just like a paid firefighter would be. People just aren't interested in that. I had a full time job, started my Paramedic training and after 1 month I dropped out. Was just going to be too time consuming. I was involved in other activities and full time job. like so many areas it will be paid from 6am to 6pm weekdays and have 3 man crews. The other help will come from volunteers. that means tax increases and people will complain.
Ex volunteer here, became quickly disenchanted with station politics and the bickering that went with it. I couldn’t trust many fellow volunteers enough to go into a fire with them. Our station was shut-down due to multi-town politics…
Dylan, Great commentary. Society has changed! Volunteering is not as important to people, than it used to be. Sad, but true!! EMS in the 1970's has gone over the top, 2024. Lots of training, to do more, with less people! I was a volunteer for almost thirty years. Learned a lot, helped a lot people that needed it. But there is a limit on any person, for time & effort! Inflation & more calls will continue, until tje bell rings, and no one shows up! I hope that day never comes, but it looks more likely! Thank you for your work & the efforts of all the Vol Firefighters of NYS!
Ex-volley checking in. I left because of two main reasons - 1.) Drama and 2.) Started a family and between raising two young kids and a full-time job, I just don't have the time to commit to weekly training, let alone actually be available to run calls. Honestly though, it's the drama that REALLY drove me away. Unfortunately, for every one good guy in the volunteer fire service, there's like 3 assholes. I've seen MANY good guys driven out by these clowns. Nobody ever talks about that in these "Why the volunteer fire service is dying" stories - the drama in volley departments is BAD and has been for a while. Paid departments have drama too - the difference is you're paid and you can deal with it a lot easier. As a volley, you're not getting paid to deal with assholes and why should you stay and be around people like that? Most of the guys who were active when I started 20 years ago also left and never returned. We ALL miss getting on the truck to go help people - none of us miss the drama though and that alone is responsible for MANY good ex-vollies from leaving and not coming back.
I was a volunteer firefighter. I received the best education in the fire service during my time. Joined to serve the community and I had a sense of purpose. As a volunteer firefighter you learn about life's trials and tribulations. It is a shame what happened to the volunteer fire service. The economy and other social issues has caused this volunteer model to become a memory. We used to talk at the Suffolk Fire Academy about the future this video shows what we discussed.. I miss my brothers and sisters in the Fire service on long Island. We were a part of something noble and now it is Going away. Great video 👍
Excellent work on the video. The volunteer fire service has been dealing with recruitment and retention problems for years. The institution of a retirement benefit seemed to help for a little while. However, it's not enough in today's economy. People don't have the time that is required for mandated training, drills, and call requirements to remain active. Balancing family, work, and finances are taking more time out of our lives. This diminishes volunteering time for much of anything. The Volunteer Fire and EMS services save taxpayers and insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. It would be wise to take a closer look at saving these services in our communities.
(Nationally Certified Fire Instructor NYSOFPC Ret. Former Big Tree VFC FF/EMT).
It saves way more than just hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. You are looking at at min. $150,000 per year for a paid FF in total compensation/benefits x9 for staffing a 4 man house with 3 shifts (and then factor in higher pay % for your Capt x3 and Chief position). Despite the IAFF grift/butthurt a lot of communities cannot fund a paid dept and the call volume doesn't justify a paid dept anyway.
@HerpDerpNV I'm referring to each community the department serves. Not as a whole. That number reaches into the Billions of dollars.
I got my start volunteering as a medic ( paid out of pocket to go to EMT school ) with my local towns FD. There has been a change in mindset in this country. The current citizenry seems more obsessed with video games, and online "culture" than actually trying to make a difference and find a way to give back to their communities. We are so lost in this country right now, though. . . I fear volunteer fire fighters ( and the resulting lack, thereof ) will soon be the least of our worries. Great video though! As others have stated already, I too miss my brothers and sisters in the services. Sad times. kinda makes ya regret living this long. . .
As a volunteer firefighter myself, I can understand that, but you have to understand that we have families to take care of and we also have a job to take care of being on Department does not put food on the table or put a roof over your head.!!!
A local Volunteer Fire Department near me had the same problem with manpower. They first hired a full-time Fire Chief, 3 Captains and 3 Engineers and used young Volunteers for Firefighters who wanted the experience to become full-time Firefighters at a Large Department. Approximately 5 years later, they hired 3 full-time Firefighters. Two years after that the City contracted with the County Fire Department and every Fire Department employee was hired rank for rank. They went from making less than 75K per year, to well over 200K a year with overtime and the choice of dozens of Fire Stations to work at. It wasn't an easy process for them to go from Volunteers to Full-time Firefighters at a Major Fire Department with a HUGE budget. But they pulled it off by selecting and supporting City Council Members that wanted a Large Professional Fire Department. Definitely something to think about doing!!
I can almost guarantee you that the taxes went up in that town .Salaries and benefits don't come cheap . People say that you can't put a price on public safety , maybe , but there is a price and the taxpayer is on the hook for it . Police and fire are the biggest expenses in any municipal budget .
Genesee county New York fireman and I agree with everything in this video but a major thing that is left out is drama. I run calls with neighboring departments and I’ve noticed that every department has drama. I have spoken to members that don’t attend trainings or attend an average of 5-10 calls a year and all of their answers have been the drama has pushed them out. There is also a major problem with cliques or groups that back stab. When I joined 9 years ago it was a family now the entire volunteer fire service seems to be based off of a game of favoritism.
Very, VERY well said!! I served as a vol. FF for about 8 years. I was there for the right reasons; to give back to my community and be there for people who were having the worst time of their lives. I did my very best and put as much time into it as I could. However, there was a clique that annoyed many of us is so many ways, that ended up causing me to leave. The ones who always wanted the latest and greatest! The ones who wanted new LED lights on the apparatus when the LED’s that were on the apparatus worked totally fine but they may have not be the newest, just an example. They were the ones who never showed up at the fundraisers, until they were all done just so they could hangout and use the AC, Wi-fi, etc. They had to have all the lest blue lights on their personal vehicles. It was all about them!!! I took some time off, hoping it would diminish. Went back and still the same BS! I miss it so much, but realized like you said there isn’t many FD’s, volunteer especially that are truly a family brotherhood anymore. It’s very sad.
Just like there's drama and politics in every organization from the Rotary to the Chamber of Commerce . Paid fire departments have drama and politics also with their labor unions thrown into the mix for good measure .
Former VA volunteer firefighter I had the same experience with drama in the station. From, favoring a few firefighters to full on diverse groups. It didn’t seem like we were family, not to mention they never could get my name right even with showing up for training, assisting events, pulling duty, etc. Ultimately I whined up resigning, I still miss it very much. Served for two years.
40 year volunteer. Our volunteer department closed in July. We ran almost 350 calls a year. There was 2 of us trying to hold it togather.No man power. We were not a tax base department. We survived on subscribers and grants. Subscribers literally dried up because of economy. Now the neighboring departments pick up the calls. Sad..
Why? Why is being a “volunteer” no longer in vogue? Simply put, being a volunteer has become, voluntold. You have to commit to x number of hours in-house training. You have to sit x numbers of duty at x location. You will have to commit to x number of hours a month and then x number of hours per year. You also have to sign this hold-free statement because we are not responsible for you getting hurt or dying. You have to sign here for your equipment, and by the way, if you trash it, you have to replace it with your own cash. It goes on and on…
160+FF1 training hours plus weekly training + the monthly meeting +fund raising + community functions all for free and now they are deciding that there needs to be more training. And they wonder why the spirit is dead?
I HAVE BEEN A VOLLY since 1976 and career since 1980. The first training, a whole 30 hours began when I had was out behind the station learning how to use a brush truck hose and 2 days later the structure engines hoses. Things have sure changred since then.
Since 2020 nearly all volunteer based organizations in Southern California are scrambling to recruit & retain volunteers. Part of it is competition with so many activities, partly exorbitant costs of living driving people away and generational shifts away from "joining" groups.
Most of the risk is on the volunteer with very little reward and if you have a problem, they treat it like it's your own problem to deal with. In an economy where 60 hours a week is common just to get by with extra spending money, nobody has the time or energy to put in another 4-10 for calls without some form of compensation
With that call volume I'm wondering why they do not become a career fire department the politicians in that town need to step up and look at what they need to do in order to make that transition. If there is that much of a call volume then that department needs to be a career department not a volunteer department
That's easy to say, but you have no idea what their tax base is. Full time staffing is incredibly expensive, and their tax rolls may not support it. It took our department years to build up to be able to staff 2 ambulances with dual certified staff (Firefighter/Paramedic) 24/7/365 and we still rely on mutual aid for major structure fires. I first joined our department in 1979 as a volunteer and still run today as a driver/engineer and our yearly call volume is on pace to top 1000. The state and federal governments waste billions every year on bluntly stupid items. They need to support fire and EMS services as much as they support their "agendas."
Lately NY has put out that all volunteers will have to do all duties on the fire ground. That will limit volunteers available, consolidation of stations and longer response times (higher insurance??)
I was a vollie up in Jefferson County NY for 20+ years with 2 departments. At My age I am unable to help anymore. I miss the vollies in both departments enough that I have a scanner on 24/7.
Right now some ambulance squads are struggling (mostly billing reimbursements). We have needed full-time EMS for quite awhile.
What do you mean by all duties on the fireground?
@@mrfirefighter360 interior, scene support, pump operator and EMS. They want paid firemen like the cities have now.
That's what I liked about my time as a volunteer, you could for the most part specialize in what you were comfortable with on the fireground.
@@philrogers8160 I understand the plight. We had a guy that could pump a fire flow from damn near a rock. But I sure wasn't having him come up on the roof with me, all 350 lbs of his 5'9".
I wonder how many volunteer departments are looking at how tney can offer a place to live in exchange for a certain amount of dedicated volunteer availability.
very beautiful video
I began service to the community at the age of fourteen and this is nothing new. I just know that neighboring departments used to be competitive by nature and now they have consolidated. Fact is.., when someone needs the fire department, they don’t care which name is painted on the apparatus as long as someone shows up.
Great work on this report, Dylan.
I have always thought that the men and women of the Fire/Ems service should be compensated to a degree that makes it worth their while to being a member and the fact that they want to participate is in itself a commitment to community. Everyone sees the red trucks with the flashing lights and the people that get out of them to help their fellow man, but it's what they don't see that makes them special. Most folks don't have a clue as to what each individual has to go through to become an EMT or firefighter. The time they give and the sacrifices they make to serve their community is beyond measure to their dedication. Not only should they be compensated for their time, they all should enjoy the added benefit of a pension after so many years of service,
Volunteer Fire and Ambulance crews have become abused. Why is a fully crewed Fire apparatus needed to sit in the local airport parking lot when a medivac helicopter is making a pickup and charging the patient 20k for the service?
Try calling a doctor's office on a Saturday, Sunday, or holiday. You will get a recorded message telling you to call 911. Also, volunteer ambulance crews are forbidden to give any medical advice or warn patients of dangerous doctors. in addition to the frivolous calls, false alarms, or people calling 911 for nonemergencies.
Where I'm from, central MN, the local volunteer FD said guys are too busy with their own lives to have time...extra cirruculars for kids, long work hours, doing bar league sports kr karate... people getting degrees online...no free time.
Three calls a day is not sustainable for a volunteer department regardless of how many people you have. Even if it can be split into shifts: if I, personally, have to run out 2-4 times a week at random times, and attend regular training sessions, it makes it kind of hard to hold down a job and family/personal life. The "three calls a day" are going to be medical-related: guaranteed. It's time to involve professional services at that point: either the department staffs a pro ambulance crew, or enters into some sort of contract with a local ambulance company, or medical center, to provide a professional EMS response.
The base premise of volunteer fire companies was about keeping the town from burning to the ground, and that was it. Around the 1970's, EMS in the fire service started taking off, and taking over the call volume on pro and volunteer fire departments.
trying to get people to give up they time to help I'm a volunteer for 48 years and all need help the volunteer might be on the way out
Alot has to do with availability of time. With the amount of hrs training that is required people just have that time. Also it comes down to leadership if you have bad l leadership that effects the moral and the desire to be there. I know where I use to be the leadership was so bad that we lost 4 members that were there all the time as well as others who just decided to not be around as much.
What they don’t realize is drawing candidates away is the requirements
I will get hate for this but... You are correct, there are too many regulations that require too much time. We are volunteer, we give up our time pretty much anytime of the day 365 days a year.
This is an excellent video and is a shining light and shows the how and why volunteer firefighting isn't working. I feel that its not quite 100% fully the answer. I tried being a paid on call myself I did everything perfect passed all the tests accept for one that is required by the state. Its a 8 hour 600 question in total psychiatric evaluation of continuously the same questions asked by 6 different tests. After the test, they have a psychologist interview you for about an hour. So many people that can be qualified candidates get thrown out cause of this test required by the state its hurting the volunteer fire departments and paid-on-call sector. However, after they get thrown out so many of them end up joining the military just fine and have an outstanding tenure for the same service they could of done on a local level in their community with paid-on-call. Might just be my opinion and one change the state and local government could do away with that would help with recruiting for paid-on-call and volunteer fire fighting.
Well said. Look back over the decades when training was minimal. You joined on the “good old boy network” where the fire department in most towns & hamlets was a social club. There was no academy training and the new members learned from the senior staff. Psychological testing wasn’t even heard of, let alone having to meet with a psychiatrist.
The system worked and there were more people who wanted to sign up than there were openings for firefighters.
You may have heard of the occasional volunteer firefighter who would get involved in some arson in order to be able to respond and be the hero for a day,but that really wasn’t a huge issue. People did the job without stealing and other malfeasance. (Of course there were incidents but not many overall)
Now they seem to want reasons to deny someone a chance to serve, they turn away fully capable candidates over some ridiculous issue that has no basis. I just don’t understand how the volunteer system worked so well in years before without outside interference, but now with the state, the Feds and other agencies involved it’s so complicated.
They didn’t need psychological testing back then , so why now? What changed? What is the big need all of a sudden?
Common sense first once money is involved that’s the end of volunteers 2 separate ems and firefighters and the more regulation you put in the more people you will lose
Why volunteer when volunteer do more training than paid firefighters do yes as a volunteer you aren’t perfect but the job gets done and last get rid of the lawyers and politicians who look to make everything harder for the volunteers
Former volunteer firefighter, no longer involved because of insane politics, zero accountability and widespread intense incompetence. Get ready, it’s going to get worse!
Society has changed. Economically, geographically, morally, ethically, essentially society jas fundementally changed forever.
Both parents work at least one job. Many people don't know all the people on their block and feel no sense of community. No obligation to jelp others in need.
Its time for paid fire service and EMS! You don't hear of volunteer police departments. So why should fire and EMS be any different! If people can't volunteer, then it needs to necome a career for someone else.
The problem is that small towns and counties don't have the money to create a paid department.
@@Suzanne-f4x No they do it's the counties and towns are pocketing the money where theres a will theres a way
3 calls a day jesh where I sign up lol I get 3 calls in the first 2 hours of shift lok
The problem with volunteer departments is the majority, not all, but the majority of departments just let anyone on. They're not qualified both physically and education wise. They let kids join and these kids run out and buy lights off Amazon, slap them on their car then drive 100 mph down the road to a lift assist..a lot of other issues I've seen from vollie departments. No physical standards, no professional standards, etc.
They will all be career departments in the next 10 years
Cities, towns, counties don't have the tax money to hire firemen/EMS. and not enough volunteers.
There are many major issues plaguing the volunteer fire service in America...1 lack of time to dedicate to the dept 2 the good ole boys club 3 if you aren't liked by the right person they'll get you run out of the house 4 the amount of training hours required to be a basic entry level firefighter 5 lack of understanding when people can't dedicate as much time as some other people due to obligations and the unrealistic expectations that you should and have to put the fire house ahead of every single thing else in your life.. backstabbing, politics, etc are all compounding problems as well. . It makes it to where people would rather just avoid it and not have to deal with it
I back this comment 100% after experiencing the good old boy club mentality 11 years ago. Worked hard to become one of the most certified individuals on the department. About 6-7 years in myself and 2 other members were suspended for not completing a form to have our driving records checked. We had way too much passion for the department to risk being tossed because of a silly form that took 5 min to complete. Pretty sure this was a set up to oust me and my buddy because we had been against the purchase of a quint and were vocal on the issue. We believed older engines and tankers need to be prioritized 1st and that our mutual aid relationships had aerial trucks in two bordering jurisdictions. Leadership never gave notice or curtesy calls which seemed odd when there was already a huge struggle to get new members. We all filled appeals to overturn their decision and they denied my buddy and I but overturned the 3rd suspended member and allowed him to return. About 3 years later their new quint was delivered and today neither of us no longer serve as volunteer firefighters. Back then we were only in our 30’s and were interested in the future and taking this department in a good direction.
@Greg-iv1zc I've had it happen to me as well then the captain of said firehouse has the gall to post on social media quite frequently about how the volunteer fire service is in desperate need of volunteers and at the same time is the sole reason why so many people come and go through the doors and barely stay more then 6 months on the long end... I can't help but say to myself ( then stop running people out dickhead) every time I see him do it.. mine was likely because I spoke out against the engine room takin over control of the social hall/club/bar upstairs for the social only members over 21... that and speaking out against buddy boxes and having us added 1st due on alarms that would take us out of our 1st due as the only rescue in the are when the whole county has a total of 4 rescues for a total of 18 different twps and towns for false alarms and smells 99% of the time
Problem is, most of Erie Co. NY should be a PAID Fire and EMS Dept. There's a place for volunteers, this isn't it.
I hope your pillow never has a cold side
Great documentary. First, you guys get a shit ton of snow, 😂. Been a vol now part time ff for30 years in ohio, with all the training equal to a full time ff, why do it for free?? Plus, with all the lawsuits you are exposed to for just helping your fellow neighbor we are nuts for leaving our house to be exposed to loosing everything you have worked for because of a lawsuit
Too fix problems pure simple pay on call,spend money on training,better equipment.Canada we start clean up house now most small town have 2 or 3 fireman on duty.Alberta clean up house 1990s due safety the province tough regulations now and rest canada saw it.😮
EMS killed the volunteer fire service.
A valid point. Since most municipal fire departments have taken on EMS roles as well, the call volumes have ballooned, with the side effect of burning out the volunteer ranks. Some statistics I have seen are in the neighborhood of +80% of responses are EMS related nowadays. That puts a serious hardship on the personnel, and employers who allow their people to respond to those calls.
IMO the problem with getting volunteers is all the safety regulations and months and months of forever training required. Too many rules. Let men be men. This is no longer a volunteering position, this is a full time (move around slowly no hustling ever) unpaid unheroic kind of job. Boring AF. Most men wanna show off their athleticism, skill sets, and common sense. When I was a young kid, with smoke showing in the sky FF's carefully raced to a scene on a fire truck or personal vehicles and didn't walk around dragging out miles of useless hose before turning on water. On a fire call they worked together, used deck guns or hose reels off trucks for quick water on fire knock downs all while knowing another truck with more heroes was on its way to help out. Nobody used seatbelts they hung off the back ready, ready to step off the truck with an axe hose or ladder in hand. All heroes, and they felt they were heroes belonging to something exciting, a club, not oppressed pawns that too many chiefs get to train and train and train forever. It's like FF's are actually overly trained with 1000's of rules and actually get confused somewhat when they arrive on a scene. Nowadays they come off a fire truck and seem to stand around like soldiers waiting on simple orders. Also there never was these automatic alarm calls where everyone dresses up and drives quickly to a scene with no smoke no fire and nothing to do once there, It's like dummy practice runs and are a complete waste of volunteer FF's time. Important spare personal time that is. Fire fighting used to be fun, manly, and exciting to be a part of. Whoever got to the fire house first got to drive the trucks. Everyone was trained on driving instead of designated drivers always doing the driving. Driving the truck, that was the most exciting part. Complications ruined what used to be a feel good thing to do and to be a part of. Unfortunately nobody wants to volunteer to a boring volunteering job with waaaay too many rules that takes up almost all your spare time nowadays.
No unpaid professionals. This is why career guys look down volly system very disorganized know it all cowboys. No volly departments have good ISO ratings people don't give a shit until they need ya. Career all the way.
We’re volunteers and have ISO 2, close to ISO 1. Neighboring vol dept has been iso 1 for years so…
And we have career depts that call us for aid quite a bit. So your point is asinine
Those towns need to become full time services and pay higher wages than minimum wages!
Sorry bruh, love to play fireman, but ima workin 3 jobs to support a family in a country where im the enemy now. Aint got time for this
Naww, your chilling playing video games, don't let the guilt come out bruh, not everyone is a hero, it's cool,
Excellent video! Really highlights the struggle volunteer depts are having nationwide. Keep up the good work!