Review: Mäkelä Makes Mincemeat Out Of Sibelius
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 เม.ย. 2022
- This is a mess. Young Finnish budding superstar conductor Klaus Mäkelä, on evidence here, simply has no business making a complete Sibelius cycle at this stage in his career, and Decca was foolish to let him. The evidence is all over these hapless performances: the skewed balances, underwhelming climaxes, disastrous endings, italicized phrasing and shaping of larger sections--it's just plain bad.
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Please can we have a cycle of you singing and chugga-chugga-ing the Sibelius symphonies? It's scary how you evoke them. Once I got goosebumps, I really did.
Decca’s response to this review will be to make Mäkelä’s eyes even dreamier on the next album cover.
Exactly!
Ditto!
Thank you 😊
He’s no ole blue-eyes yet.
I read that young Wilhelm Furtwangler -- he was 29 when he was appointed head of the Mannheim Opera -- was considered quite the blond bombshell. However, when you look at photos of him back then, he was still going quite bald at that age.
This is an important video because you give us listeners clues to identify "bad" performances. "Bad " is not the same as "incompetent". Incompetent playing (wrong notes, flubbed entries, botched dynamics, etc) almost never make it to disc. And professional musicians in professional orchestras just don't make mistakes. But a conductor's negligence or ignorance of the elements you highlight (sectional balance, harmonic balance, phrasing, structure, foregrounding/backgrounding, perverse tempos and uncalled for rubato, etc) can easily destroy the composer's intentions. It would be helpful to me and maybe to others if you devoted a couple of talks to helping us discern what makes performances bad.
Quite recently since i discovered this channel and glad i did Consider myself a novis when it comes to classical music,besides the usual suspects that is. Your knowlwdge,passion and fire for this artform is so appreciated,so is a honest review such as this. Invaluable in my opinion so thank you for sharing and running this channel! Cheers from Sweden.
Welcome aboard! Thank you for watching.
Forza Bajen!
I learn so much listening to Daves critiques. I'm so glad I found his channel.
It does seem odd that a very young conductor should be given the luxury of recording an entire symphonic cycle given the economic state of the classical music industry. In the past, such a conductor would have recorded an LP with one symphony and maybe a filler piece just to see how it went. Then, depending on the reaction, he would have been allowed to do another one. It would have been more gradual.
Although the recording technology was not yet in place, I doubt that even a young Bruno Walter would have been approached by a record executive with the words “Hey, you actually knew this Mahler guy, so here’s a blank cheque - go and record all his stuff in one go” (or maybe they would!)
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Thoughtful and entertaining summary, Dave. Totally agree with all of your points. I am a big fan of conductors that do not play things straight but also impart their own stamp on a piece and pull it about. BUT they must appreciate the bigger picture as you say. And despite some nice moments in the fourth and I also enjoyed moments in the sixth, it's a shame but it's a failure. I feel disappointed for the Oslo Phil mainly, they are a good orchestra and made some great records with Jansons back in the day.
When I listened to this cycle all I could think was - I can't wait for Dave to review this, because he will tear it in to pieces. And my suspicion was right. I'm no critic and delved in to classical music more seriously relatively recently, but after hearing your recommended "IDEAL Sibelius cycle" even to my ears it was miles off.
On the subject of you saying you heard people liking this cycle; if hanging around the comments sections of classical music TH-cam performances has taught me something it's that no piece or performance is so bad that somebody will not say it's their favorite of all time.
Exactly!
Likewise Amazon reviews.
Dr. Dave asserts that Sibelius in general was bad at endings, so i will defer to his judgement, but still it is hard for me to avoid saying that the codas of the finales to Symphonies 2 and 5 are positively electrifying, while the final measures of the violin concerto are IMHO as effective as any in the v.c. repertoire.
The fact that an inexperienced young conductor has been appointed chief of one of the World’s top orchestras is a sign of deteriorating standards in what should be positions of great prestige. . This need not be the case because in recent times I’ve heard some very good performances from other young conductors who don’t enjoy the ultra hype to progress to the more famous orchestras.
The CSO players who had experience with him wanted him strongly, so I assume they feel something
@@matthewkennel7909 I kind of wondered if they just wanted a director who wouldn’t be a taskmaster. In one of the local articles about the appointment, one of the musicians who went back to the Solti era talked about how it was nice not having to walk on eggshells when Makela guest conducted.
A breath of fresh air, most likely. Someone they can teach?
very entertaining . thank you. I recently picked up the Maazel cycle and it is glorious. Thanks for the recommendation.
David, thank you for such an insightful critique! As a non-musician, I don’t have any background in technicalities, I just listen and enjoy the music but I also try to learn what the music is about. I bought and finally have this CD, have been listening to it and I must say, you’ve explained the feelings I had what I couldn’t put into words. That’s why I’m here cuz I wanted to hear some honest criticism cuz I had a gut feeling that the wind instruments were supposed to be showcased but didn’t. And the FINALES. I always get left with the feeling of there’s something missing, that “UMPH” for the climaxes. I just attended his first concert with the SF Symphony last weekend which I was very excited about, he did Shostakovich 10 as the final piece… there were some really good parts but I felt the intensity was a little lacking especially after watching a recording of Solti, Dudamel and Skrowaczewski’s Shostakovich 10.
I really hope Klaus watches this and takes to heart the critique and contribute to his growth as a young conductor being marketed to the newer generations. I did feel his passion in the live performances but he does still lack the experience and maturity, which I hope he gains at the right pace because right now, his career is skyrocketing really fast that it’s a little scary.
I was also excited about his La Mer with Royal Concergebouw but after watching it, I was a little underwhelmed. I’m rooting for him to grow, improve and continue to enjoy making music and not crack under the pressure of the marketing side of things. Who knows, if he can really tap into his potential and concentrate his talent on the repertoire he really loves, he has the potential to be a great conductor someday.
Thank you for your insight, Dave! I was really excited for this cycle. I think Mäkelä has a lot of potential and I still remember when he did a beautiful Aino by Erkki Melartin in The Finnish National Opera a few years back. But it was a horrible decision to release these recordings. I'm really worried about the Shostakovich cycle he's apparently recording next with the Oslo Philharmonic.
I’d say I’m a fan of Klaus and still am. However, I’d have to say he’s not ready to take on Shostakovich for recording after hearing his Shostakovich 10 live with SF Symphony just last Saturday (4/30/22). Though there were some really good parts, I was left feeling underwhelmed when the piece finished, which was not what I expected. If he does record DSCH, I hope it’s not in the near future. It’ll be really difficult to portray Shostakovich’s tortured soul for someone like Klaus. He even said it himself about Mahler. I do admire his humility and hope he stays humble because the road ahead will only get trickier with all these orchestras trying to get their hands on him left and right.
What's interesting is that he did an interview like 3 days ago where he named his favorite Sibelius conductors; Kajanus, Karajan, Segerstam.... Looks like he did all of this on purpose to come across as new.
Bravo, David,for “telling it like it is”. Increasingly, I see conductors appointed to fairly exalted positions for reasons other than musical ones. (I leave those “reasons” to the imagination.) Wonderful point about cutting one’s teeth as an opera “repetetitur” until one has burned off the arrogance and intemperance of inexperience. Also great insight about the nonsensical notion of “genetic predisposition” to being adept at one’s own country’s music. There’s a great moment in the “High Fidelity” documentary about the Guarneri Quartet, where, after a concert featuring Dvorak in (the former) Czechoslovakia, an audience member talking with John Dalley said “It was good but it lacked a certain ‘Czechishness’” to which Dalley basically said “that’s rubbish.” (Dalley was a superb violinist and musician who served as a great ballast to Arnold IMO). Anyway, in any case, Sibelius was a Finn whose first language was Swedish. Was he not the greatest Finnish composer? (Spoiler alert: “yes”) :D
Unrelated: Sibelius’s Seventh Symphony is his most magisterial work IMO. Ormandy programmed it fairly often in Philly when I was a music student. The orchestra played it superbly (perhaps in spite of EO rather than because of…LOL)
Sibelius was a Swedish-speaking Finn, but the Swedish was finlandssvenska, not rikssvenska, which they speak in Sweden. Add local dialects, and nobody may understand the Swedish everyone is speaking. In any case, the speaking voice of Sibelius is deeply musical, and an interview is available on youtube. He liked the Anglo-American interpretations of his music. Think of it, what you may.
"Anyway, in any case, Sibelius was…Swedish!"
As someone already pointed out, Sibelius was a Swedish-speaking Finn, which has nothing to do with being a Swede. In early 20th century Finland Swedish was the primary language in cities and among the educated people. Finland had been a part of Sweden for centuries and there was no school education in Finnish until around mid-19th century. Finnish was basically a language of peasants before it got systematically promoted. And Sibelius came from a well-educated family (his father was a doctor as we all know). Back in those days the first language was a better indicator of social background rather than ethnic background.
Bravo, Tom, for telling it like it ISN’T. Sibelius was NOT Swedish.
I saw Mäkelä conduct Mahler'S 4th with the BRSO last year. The first movement was an utter mess, the second little better. By the third movement he had apparently decided to just let the orchestra play (they know this score) and things improved, capped by some fine singing. Not something I care to repeat.
"just let the orchestra play (they know this score)" - That was the Tommy Beecham philosophy
As a Panula student myself, I can tell you that one of his central tenets is "don't disturb" the orchestra. Let them play as they know the damn piece better than the young conductor, to paraphrase Beecham.
This is true in many ways, as it shows trust between conductor and orchestra. But this principle can just as easily degenerate into abdication of interpretive leadership allowing an orchestra to fall back on its default settings and play a status quo performance. Though this may be easier for orchestral musicians, the results are often predictable and uninspired, despite everyone's best efforts and intentions. IMO, a performance needs to build on the tradition, but also sometimes even gently renovate and refresh what has been left to stagnate become generic.
"Let them play" is a slippery slope.
@@loathecliff9364 But on top of that, he really urged the orchestra to play their hearts out and got performances out of them that other conductors didn't. Some great Haydn, and I have a BBC SO performance of Sibelius' 2nd where he can be heard audibly shouting them on in climaxes!
What about Robin Ticciati's Mahler? I think Makela's is already more impressive than his
I downloaded the Third Symphony and listened to it. I then compared it to Jansons with the Oslo Philharmonic of my day - I was timpanist with the OPO then - and have to say that you nailed it. As beautiful as some of the spots in this new recording are, Jansons had much more of the measure of the work and made a lot more out of it. We recorded 1, 2, 3 and 5, and were not allowed to complete the cycle. A pity, because Jansons was also a good Sibelius conductot. His 5th is also more interesting, and the end of the first movement went like a bat out of hell! Keep on reviewing! I enjoy your insights. Also, I played Tapiola with the orchestra and Berglund - and the storm was terrifying. But then again Berglund really understood what was important!
Thank you for your very interesting personal insights. I agree, BTW, about Jansons. His Sibelius recordings in Oslo were very good.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree. It was a tragedy that we didn't finish what we started. It would have been interesting to see what he would have made of six and seven! The same for the Dvorak symphonies. My opinion of those decisions on the part of EMI was then, and now, firm, private and utterly unprintable. Some of the rep choices were bizarre. Your review of the Oslo Years was basically fair. One of the things that we fought during the time we made those recordings ( i was on all of them) was the dismal acoustics of the Oslo Concert Hall. The hall favors the treble and part of the mid-range, to the detriment of the bass. What sounded great on tour, was very distant in the lower frequencies. That did not help matters.
@@andrewsimco6861 The kid is just by far too young to conduct first class orchestras like the Philharmonia or the Oslo Phil. Dave is right, he should have taken more time and trained more to polish his interpretations before being hired by a major label, for example by being MD of a British or Scandinavian regional orchestra or in the pit of a German provincial opera house. It's a bit like Franz Welser-Möst : he was given too much too young.
@AndrewSimco Mr Simco sir! I remember you fondly when the BBC did a broadcast of the OPO at The Proms in the 90's. An Alpine Symphony was on the programme and there was film of you on timps in the interval documentary showing the orchestra rehearsal. I hope you are well.
@@MahlerHolic1860 I am well, thank you. That particular concert was one of the best tour concerts we did with Jansons. He really had the measure of the Alpine Symphony.
Thanks for the warning about Mäkelä--and also for recommending Feltsman's Bach. Tuned in to him playing the C-minor and E-minor partitas and was promptly wowed.
Gramophone's review by Edward Seckerson of the Mäkelä Sibelius box set is the polar opposite of David Hurwitz's and ends with this glowing recommendation: "We all have favourite recordings and cherished performances of the Sibelius symphonies but Mäkelä’s cycle is all of a piece, accomplished, insightful and full of the beauty and intrigue that make these works so perennially exciting. An uber-auspicious debut." I'm not sure which gave me the bigger laughs: David's talk or the Mäkelä box set that stared at me across the room while I listened... [Mercifully, the box set is still unopened/shrink wrapped - but I'm hesitant on inflicting it on some hapless buyer even at a fraction of what I paid for it...]
I remember when Seckerson joined Gramophone, and I thought he was a breath of fresh air. Sadly, the air quickly became stale again.
Hi Dave. Thanks for reviewing this. I agree and wonder how this young man will fare. He is very young so there is time on his side but I have a thought, in comparing him with other 21st century conductors, and then comparing them with many of the great conductors of the 20th century. At the start of the 20th century and then after WWII many conductors not only had to build their orchestras they also had to learn much of what we may think of as standard Rep and then in some fashion teach it to their orchestras. That took a lot of work and I wonder but that it created a more intimate relationship between the conductors and the music from 3 aspects: they had to learn the score, teach the music and interpret the music that in many cases hadn't or rarely been performed such as Sibelius in those days. And, that in addition to building the orchestra.
Now in the 21st century it seems even the so called B orchestras can play anything and sound great which means very little blood, sweat and tears and, at least in these recording, Maestro Makela offers not very interesting performances. Will he ever become interesting?
Now he’s music director of the CSO… oh boy
I demand a super cut of the singing in this. Hurwitz songs Sibelius possibly the album we’ve been waiting for.
Another example of the ridiculous decisions made by the classical music recording industry. It is all about marketing, searching for new, attractive personalities, insane contracts for immature artists recording the classics which have been done over and over again. Today's music critics don't help either. The review of this cycle in The Sunday Times in England was "Klaus Makela, the Finnish wunderkind conducts thrilling Sibelius."
Oh dear...
According to that review, KM is "the first conductor to be given a Decca recording contract since 1978". In for a penny in for a pound seems to be their policy.
But Klaus is already the best among the new generations of conductors, I must say
Oh boy
Dave, after listening to your review, I went on TH-cam to catch a snippet of Makela's Sibelius. Where better to start than the closing minutes of the Second if only to hear the moving build up, sense of inevitability and anticipation of exaltation in the final passages. Huh, did I miss something? After those 5 or so minutes, I needed a Sibelius fix. No need not look far, for what pops up on the sidebar of that same TH-cam page? Szell's 2nd live in Tokyo! Enough said.
Oh thank God! After streaming the bits that came out one by one prior to release, I was not impressed. After streaming whole movements after it finally came out, I was appalled. When I read positive review after positive review I was worried my ears and brain might be going. I needed Dave to confirm how bad this set is. Thanks for restoring my faith in my ears!
I'm happy to help. I don't get it either.
OMG ! I just listened to some spots including the end of the 2nd on Spotify. Mäkelä conducts the same way he did with the Philharmonia in Strauss Alpine Symphony (here on YT). He's interested only in the strings sound, there is no climax, it's dull, soft edged, lazy... It's like a thick porridge.
Yep.
@@leo1961berlin Birds of a feather?
@@leo1961berlin That's for sure. We've reached a point where orchestras are so much better than conductors that I think it's very possible to be a toddler and deliver a decent performance of repertory works. And because orchestras know and play the music so well, conductors don't have to develop a distinctive view of the work to get through it. They just tinker around the edges to make some obvious points.
@@leo1961berlin You're absolutely right ! But both dull and totally boring.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Well, this is so true! (...orchestras are so much better than conductors ...). But Klaus is already the best rising star, what else can you say?
It pains me to say it. But it's what counts these days. He has the Look of a star. The handsomeness and charisma and he will make it just because of that unless he matures in the near future.
Hi David, Thank you for that. Any chance of reviewing the two boxed sets of Fou Ts'ong sometime?
Did he conduct Sibelius?
Dave could you link to your video where you discuss the BEST Sibelius conductors?
There is no such video.
@@DavesClassicalGuide We would LOVE one! 😀
I agree completely with you about this conductor. I have not heard this set, and after hearing your assessment I am very unlikely to make the effort to listen to it; but I have listened to many, many videos of his conducting on TH-cam. Look, he is cute, and cute is a plus in my book, but you have to have something to say beyond looking good. I have really been shocked just how inert and conceptually chaotic all his performances sound. It is all so boring, and I can only echo others here in saying it just says something terrible about the music industry. And worst of all it leads one to the conclusion that somehow his "look" is what is the biggest draw here. And again, nothing wrong with good looks. But handsome is, as handsome does. And he just doesn't. Yet I am sure his promoters are ready with basketfulls of scoffs at all the supposedly old fashioned types like myself who can't get with the program of the value of short-attention span conducting, so to speak. The only way I am old fashioned is that I prefer exciting performances. And he does not do it.
Segerstam is also a pianist. He won even a competition in Finland in the 60s.
I needed a good Dave tirade today!
All this talk about off-kilter balance reminds me of a performance of the 4th I was at once, where the conductor (a violinist) lavished attention on the violins repeating their 4th-movment ostinato while he had his back to the lower strings who had what was carrying the music forward.
I had a listen on Apple Music (admittedly not all the way through but enough to get a sense of what DH is saying); yes what struck me was in general how bland , uninflected and tensionless the performances are (the climaxes really are handled poorly...the 1st Symphony Scherzo for instance is faceless and fussy in tempo choices and the finale is a damp sqib (listen to Ashkenazy Philharmonia or Berglund Bournemouth to see what you're missing). In the 5th opening movement, the woodwinds barely register (again listen to Berglund Bournemouth as a contrast). I could go on but the points have already been made much more eloquently than I can. I will listen further but it's been a dispiriting slog up to now!
I'm going to get into Sibelius by getting into the first symphony using Segerstram and Makela as comparitors.
I am fresh from the Proms where Thomas Dausgaard conducting the BBC Scottish did a Beethoven, Sibelius & Nielsen programme. I was there for the Nielsen 4 which was good. But Sib 7 was the opener and it was an unusual take on this work as I've ever heard. I am down on one ear but won't wear my aid to a concert because of the distortion it offers. But the beginning adagio I could hardly hear. It was like refined chamber music by a few string or even a palm court orchestra cover. Then the big sturm und drang that comes after, had neither sturm nor drang. The symphony didn't find its heart until the dance section and the final apotheosis. I was stunned by the ne plus ultra performance. If that was the intention, it succeeded.
And now Mäkelä has signed a contract for 10 years as the new conductor of the Concertgebouw Orchestra ( from 2027) .....
Who else can you choose among the young conductors? He is already the best one
He is being pushed quite hard by Decca, like he's the second coming of Karajan or something. I did wonder is this guy the real deal or is he just a pretty face? It certainly was odd that, at such young an age, he was getting all this engagements and contracts; it made me suspicious. And, well, now we know he has to mature. Thanks for the honest review Mr. Hurwitz.
Interestingly enough, the same thought occurred to me as well. With that turtleneck shirt and hairstyle Mäkelä looks almost like he is about to enter a Herbert von Karajan look-alike contest. It looks so corny. I mean, at his age you are normally supposed to study. Don't make him look like he's the towering figure of today's classical music industry.
While matching him with Khatia Buniatishvili who dresses like Lola Bunny? XD They look very cinematic to me. Very La La Landians. But both are great guys with lots of future. In fact people like them are must needed.
@@alejandrosotomartin9720 Well, we wish them the best. There is something that in our world, however, is lacking and that is patience. Time is essential in the process of becoming a good artist.
@@mancal5829 Yeah but there is also something that lacks currently in a majority of Western countries. Enough young people with the wish of doing good music or at least try to do it the best they can no matter how are the results. It would be a space to develop and experience for young talented musicians between reverence for the Karajan, Bernstein, Toscanini look alikes and hip hop on the other extreme. Let them try, experience, maybe fail and learn from their mistakes. It's just music, no the war in Ukraine.
@@mancal5829 I've seen and heard young orchestras playing Symphonie Turangalila better than anyone or just let's remember El Sistema de orquestas from Venezuela. They are barely on their 20s but they are full of life and desire of doing music. Let's help them to achieve their goals and dreams of creating beauty and then we will be able to clean those diamonds en brute with the passing of the years. Step by Step.
Thanks for your kind and thoughtful reply, Steve. True enough…he was a Swedish-speaking Finn. He learned Finnish in school. Not sure how my mistake affects my opinion that he was the greatest Finnish composer.
because of the hype, I thought I'd listen to some of the two hardest symphonies to bring off (in my view) 6 and 7. The latter is generally butchered and actually I thought Mäkelä was less bad than many others in control of tempo -- at any rate before the main climax where you're spot on with your criticism. Then the box was reviewed by BBC Radio 3 and they played some of no.3 and 5. I couldn't believe what I was hearing --rest assured it was not good... Listened to a concert with Tchaik 6 and Shosty 6 to see what he could do elsewhere. Pretty average but both works had a few merits. Will he develop into a genuinely important conductor? I'll perhaps check back in a decade.
I know you meant to say pyroclastic instead of chiroplastic! 😏😉 Sometimes things get jumbled when we get excited. And always love your excitement. In this case, describing how things SHOULD be. Your review makes me so curious to want to go listen to these recordings and hear how bad all the climaxes are! Maybe that's not the intention, although maybe I can find them somewhere to listen to without investing in a full purchase.
Yes, that's right. Platocrastic.
@@DavesClassicalGuide 😆
Dave you were right, Paavo Berglund was also a violinist. JIM
Yes, I agree with you. 100%. But what makes me sad is that I believe that Decca and Oslo are doing what they think will bring in a new generation of music lovers - trying to keep sales of classical music alive, i.e. marketing. It’s a very difficult situation. Classical music makes up, what, maybe 6%-7% of music revenue? Decca is trying to appeal to a younger generation, but it’s misguided if they sacrifice what makes great music great - high standards, experience, talent and genuine expressiveness and artistry. I must admit that I feel for recording companies and orchestras - but there has to be a better way.
You make good points. It seems to me that there is nothing terribly difficult in finding young, appealing artists who are also really good at what they do. Making great records isn't a mystery with the catalogues readily available for comparison. The problem is that they don't want to do their homework and listen, and make smart repertoire decisions. It's much easier to publicize a name and a repertoire than to explain why a recording is great.
With 3 full Paavo Berglund sets to choose from, why would anyone bother with this? 😆
The finale of the 3rd Symphony of Berglund's first Sibelius cycle (with Bournemouth) is simply glorious.
@@carteri6296 I totally agree! His recording of the Third made it my favorite Sibelius symphony, maybe (partly) because it isn't done so often.
As a (retired) orchestra violinist, I played #2 countless times, and #1 a few times, because almost every conductor knows them, but rarely any of the others.
P. Berglund did #5 and #7 with us, and I remember him very fondly. 😂
It was on my wishlist to buy, but now I'm not so sure! Do you think some of the balance problems are due to the recording rather than the conductor, Dave?
No, but try to listen and judge for yourself.
So, Mrs. Lincoln ... what did you think of the play?
Makala has been on the radio several times and I never noticed what he played. I have a very good junk filter in my head.
Very nice explanation of balance. I listened to the example given and the concept was immediately clear. Dave, would you consider doing a video or series of videos on features such as these, with musical examples? I am sure, that it would help some of us. Also, does your site have anything on these lines? I wouldn't mind getting a subscription if you do.
The problem with topics like this is that I would need permission to get the music examples, and major labels, aside from refusing permission in general, would be even less happy to be told I wanted to use recording X as my Awful Example. I could do something like it on ClassicsToday, where I don't have that issue, and I will think about it. Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm so pleased you talk about his terrible balances, it explains a lot. He was supposed to give a concert here in London with the LPO but was sick and the concert was taken over right at the last minute by Mr. Jonathan Berman, who normally is fastidious about balances (I remember reading some years ago that he learnt how to balance from Maestro Knussen and Maestro Skrowacewski....doesn't get much better than that). But in this concert they were not quite right! I could see him trying to rebalance during the concert.....but there is only so much you can do when you take over with no rehearsal.
At least Mr. Berman does know how to structure pieces - his 'Also Sprach' was paced fabulously - can't imagine how cut up and episodic Mr. Makela would have made it!
Just named "Artistic Partner" and eventual Chief Conductor of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra.
Great comments..Did you read the BBC magazine review...You think he is the second coming. "Record of the month " I heard part of the recordings...no comparison with the Davis BSO or Blomstedt SF. Jerel
I listened to it in 2 sittings on Amazon Music last week. The tempi are very expansive, true, yet the Oslo brass and woodwinds show no signs of running out of breath, which was impressive. I loved every moment of my listening. The balances were interesting, refreshing. Decca handled the density well, I thought. Does this set displace my beloved Vanska/Lahti? No. It’s totally different. But I will surely listen to it again. And if the unsubtle marketing of Mr Makela can increase demand for orchestral music from younger people, all the better.
Unfortunately, it's not merely about orchestral music. It's about orchestral music played as the person who composed it intends it to be played, no matter how splendid the orchestra's musicians are. If anyone, Sibelius sets very high challenges for a conductor. I, for one, wish that Decca would have taken its time with Klaus, instead of having him go at the Sibelius symphonies at breakneck speed. That, in my opinion, does a great disservice to Sibelius, the Oslo Phil, and to Klaus himself.
You need to listen to many cycles by conductors such as Berglund, Blomstedt, Vanska, Maazel, Bernstein, Karajan, Segerstam, before jumping for the newest by the youngest. Only then will you be able to judge. My reference is Paavo Berglund.
I think it was Robert Layton who persuaded a whole generation of British Sibelians to avoid Segerstam, now one (Helsinki) of my go-to cycles.
And one of Dave's favourites too. Can you say what Layton's objections to Segerstam were? (I have read a lot of RL's reviews in Gramophone.)
Weren't there two Segerstam cycles? I though Dave was underwhelmed by the earlier one but the second is his top pick. Could it have been the first one that Layton was listening to?
Layton back in the day warned off we youngster Sib fans away from Sibelius' piano music. It was salon music at best. Now, most of Sibelius I listen to is his piano composition (and his songs) Wonderful discoveries there.
Mäkelä may be a talented young guy but he has been given too much too soon. Plus somehow I think it's a bit too obvious if a young Finnish conductor does a Sibelius cycle as his or her debut recording. Esa-Pekka Salonen did a Nielsen cycle before a Sibelius cycle (which he unfortunately hasn't done to this day).
It's not bad for a young guy like Makela is to do a Sibelius cycle ( that means basics from Finland) at so young age. He could do another cycle on his 50s and another one at his 75s or 80s and then it would be possible to compare how a same conductor can evolve in the understanding and interpretation of the same music by the same composer after a life. Then we can compare and problem solved.
@@alejandrosotomartin9720 The problem is that forceful marketing will encourage newcomers to spend money on bad Sibelius. There are simply too many good cycles to choose from to be confronted with the excitement of a bad cycle. At age 25-26 I would expect conductors to be learning, and not recording music they barely understand.
@@lilydog1000 Luckily it is the law of the market. What is desired is offered, and then from among the varied offer the public chooses. It's not musical North Korea.
Felt the same circa 35 years ago when some upstart named Eki-Peki-Sally-something slaughtered a Nielsen symphony; & escaped a prison sentence.
Yes, but he cleaned up his act pretty quickly, and some of his Nielsen was outstanding. Only No. 4 was bad.
@@DavesClassicalGuide However, without a refund I do not go further.
Oh that many more would adopt this people-power policy :)
This set is a bestseller in Scandinavia!!😅
Best wishes Fred from Sweden.
Of course it is.
Yes, important project recorded during covid! Listening to the muffled horns and trumpets brought to mind those distanced concerts I watched on here, whole brass section maybe 50 yards away and behind plexiglass? Haha I am not a critic, I will enjoy my Covid Cycle 😷
Probably after that extatic review in our largest morning newspaper.
I agree with Erik. DG and Decca, in particular, are promoting artists who are young and photogenic. They are the sort of albums that my mother would buy, who didn't want to be challenged in her listening. I can think of a young cellist who has been heavily promoted by the BBC and Decca because he is young and good looking and from a talented young family. But no genius.
I can't watch the BBC proms now, they are playing down to mass music consumption.
Decca has made some disappointing issues in my opinion both with young and with experienced artists. Over the past few years it has issued boxes of collections of symphonies and other works by Dvořák, Tchaikovsky and now this Sibelius. I haven't heard this Sibelius but I found the other two very disappointing despite good artists and the great Gzech Philharmonic and I know from his comments that DH was also underwhelmed. So I'm not planning to buy this Sibelius.
The BBC proms are now a joke. I am awaiting the arrival of Ed Sheeran,s violin concerto, no doubt performed by Nicola doo dah or maybe Nige the geezer.
I watched one orchestra with no-one over the age of 40 playing the Rach/Pag Rhapsody with a very young soloist. It was played like lift music. But hey, they were all young. I was 14 when I first heard classical music properly . Beethoven violin concerto. On a record. No photo of the soloist. There music did it for me. Been listening ever since. The current marketing drives me away.
What is worse, having promoted them they drop them after a couple of issues and go on to the next. So no coherent development of repertoire for the young artist.
Exactly, we have reached the era of Instagram musicians: talentless vein, sycophants with privilege lives beyond their worth playing in daddy’s Lamborghini.
I thought before opening the video that this Makela guy was a composer who just outdid Sibelius and was expecting some out of this world music. Oh my disappointment as the video progressed :(
I think there is a "rest of the story": these days we have many more virtuoso orchestras in the world than we do virtuoso (experienced) conductors to lead them. The music schools (aka conservatories) have done a good job of churning out first-rate orchestral players and they come to orchestras, usually through blind auditions, and they have experience. So the orchestras have the opportunity to hire the best of the best of what they hear behind the curtain (so to speak). However, we have a supply and demand problem and the conductor coming up through the "old" route which began as an assistant choir coach behind the scenes in a (many times) German opera house...just isn't there anymore. So if a "kid" shows up with the least bit of talent, personality, and/or flair for the podium he/she gets snatched up. I agree that many times this is to the detriment of that new "Kappelmeister." This has been going on for a while. Going back to 1958 I always felt that Van Cliburn was done the disservice of being thrust into the limelight by his win in Moscow. In fact, I'm not sure he ever learned any new music after he left Juilliard...and it was Rosina, herself, who encouraged him to go to Moscow. Klaus is basically the same age as Bernstein was when he made his auspicious emergency debut with the NYP...but it was 15 years later when he became Music Director. That timeline just doesn't exist any more. But, on the other hand, both the orchestra and the audience seem to be very happy with Klaus's efforts and perhaps one day this upstart "von Stolzing" will mature into a Hans Sachs. "Verachtet mir die Meister nicht..."
They are happy because he leaves them alone. They are better than he is and they know it, and he knows it. Orchestras being "happy" with a conductor has no bearing on the quality of the results, and as a corporate body they are the least qualified to decide if the audience is getting the best musical product.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have played in orchestras and conducted orchestras for 60 years. If the orchestra and conductor are just "tolerating" each other nothing special happens. The Concertgebouw is self-governing and elected "the kid". They are one of the top five in the world. I doubt they would elect someone who merely "leaves them alone." I'm not defending his Sibelius one way or the other. But like Barenboim at the same age, he simply needs time. He has had a wonderful "meister" that trained him and now he will be polished by one of the great orchestras of the world...Haitink turned out alright, too.
@@jbbevan Exactly. Nothing special is happening now, at least not on disc, which is what I hear. I have no idea how special he might be in a live concert situation (and I grant that this is what matters in real life, not recordings), but I do know that if he has to be "polished" by the orchestra then he does not deserve to be there in the first place. And if that is the situation, then it is exactly as I described it--they like him because he will leave them alone and they will mold him, not the other way around. At least with Haitink they kept Jochum around until he earned his stripes.
oh dear... the Concertgebouw.... I live very nearby and often attend concerts... we shall see but they surely didn't listen to you David :-0
That's their problem.
@@DavesClassicalGuide and our (as audience/fans/people who feel it's 'their' orchestra, buy their cd's, etc) problem .... Well... Haitink started also as a relative youngster... let's see
I’m going against David and his thread of followers here by saying that this is, currently, by far, my favorite Sibelius cycle, one where there is a lot feature surfacing found nowhere else, enabling my being able to pick apart background harmonic features. It helps that the recording clarity contributes to this end as well. All in all, it’s kind of an investigation and a radical remix for me. All this being said, my other favorite is the mid-90s Blomstedt (‘06 rerelease), but this recent outing was a break from that, allowing me to look under the hood. I’ll get back to the open road, with Blomstedt and all, shortly, but with a new sense of the open road.
You can like things that suck. Just admit it--as the T-shirt says. Whether something is your favorite or not says nothing about it's quality. I like lots of junk for one reason or another. No harm there.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Quality is such a negotiable term in this context, and gatekeeping has got to be such a hoot.
@@youmothershouldknow4905 It is!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Nice 👍
Thought you might like to see this if you already haven't: “Most Finnish greats have recorded cycles of Sibelius symphonies at least once … Who’d have predicted that this latest, from Klaus Mäkelä at the helm of the Oslo Philharmonic, one of the two orchestras who adore their principal conductor, would be the most electrifying and often revelatory of them all? “
BBC Music Magazine, David Nice, May 2022 ★★★★★
I know (sigh).
The critics at BBC Music and Gramophone praised this beyond belief!
That's what they do, I guess.
Thrusting such a young conductor into the arena of new conductors is obviously a marketing ploy. Dudamal is an exception. The Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra is a terrific Orchestra and the musicians should have a say into who conducts them. Whomever is responsible for the appointment of this young conductor should be chastised and held accountable. As I said before: The actual musicians of this great orchestra should be the final decision makers. Just my opinion, of course. Thanks, David for your candid review.
The Czech Philharmonic made a great mistake the first time the members of the orchestra made a decision about their conductor. But probably influenced by non0musical considerations rather than their instincts.
Dudamel is past 40 now. Probably out of the youth market.
Hi, I work in the double bass section of the Oslo Philharmonic, and there is a voting process among the musicians when a new chief conductor is appointed.
😂. In this specific photo, the closest the gaze comes to a "dream" is a nightmare, which doesn't really do him justice - to be honest- as he seems to be a sweet guy. (and may'be that pours into some of his conducting too, in parts where it shouldn't)
My piano teacher when I was 14 told me that I didn't make the melody sing enough and that I was playing the "boobies" in the left hand too loudly. Being as I was 14, it was all I could do not to crack up. But the point has always stayed with me.
Hoorveetz iz a Boomer wheech doeznt want yoong pplz 2 beecome Deerecturz!!1!
Jokes apart, Riccardo Muti always says works like Beethoven's 9th cannot be directed by anyone until over 35 years old because no one has enough life experience before that age to truly understand what truly is in that Music, and I cannot disagree with him: every time I think I've figured out everything about life, something comes to challenge me again. I thought to have everything figured out at 25, but I now must recognize I probably just was STARTING to understand.
Paavo Berglund was a violinist. Simon Rattle was his assistant conductor for a while in Bournemouth, and even with a mentor like Berglund it takes a lifetime to master Sibelius. Rattle said that every time Berglund went to Birmingham he would go to the library and annotate Rattle's scores with dynamic markings and string articulations: bowing, fingering, etc. Mäkelä is clearly a prodigious talent, but it is this grounding he is missing out on, you Dave alluded to at the beginning.
How interesting that so little of that preparation seems evident in Rattle's performances!
@@DavesClassicalGuide On the plus side, his annotated scores must be a joy to behold.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Then again, one doesn't know what atrocities where avoided.
You can hear the whole cycle on youtube, like I did
Somehow, I supposed this cycle was going to be a mess, and now you confirm it.
But I'd like to know, among the more or less young conductors, is there any one whose Sibelius you recommend (I mean, on CD)?
I've reviewed just about all of them either here or on ClassicsToday.com, and you can check those out. I really don't pay attention to conductors' ages unless they make an issue of it.
Sibelius is orchestral material that is much too difficult for a conductor who is just beginning his career. It is music full of changes and nuance. I am not surprised that this first cycle is one to forget. I'd be interested in having him revisit these pieces in 30 or 40 years, assuming he's still around conducting. Young conductors are better off learning the repertoire of the composers who have acted as foster "teachers" to young musicians since time immemorial: Bach, Haydn, Mozart. When you can get to the point where you are competent at interpreting the works of these composers you might be ready to go on to some other stuff. Bach literally takes a lifetime. You can go back to Bach at 80 yrs of age, after a lifetime of being involved in music, and find that the old master still has stuff to teach you.
Sorry, but that is complete nonsense.
@@DavesClassicalGuide: Hmm, as Snoopy of Charles Schultz "Peanuts" fame says, 'i love a good rhubarb!", and i sense the opportunity to cultivate one here, if the very busy Dr. Dave (who seems to pump out videos at a prodigious pace) is willing to expound on and amplify the grounds on which he denounces the O.P.'s contention...^^
The new conductor of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
Well, David, I have some bad news for you: word on the street is that the Concertgebouw Orchestra is after him. They may announce his tenure later this year.
It's not bad news for me. I have nothing against the boy, and he may do other things wonderfully well. I don't know. I can only report on what I've heard. I wish him well and hope that he's terrific in other repertoire.
That's mental of a orchestra of Concertgebouw's caliber to hire him. I mean he's quite a talent and conducted the orchestra a lot but there are better candidates for example Ivan Fischer
@@corgansow7176 Fischer will never do it. He has a wonderful relationship with the Concertgebouw, but he only wants to be the chief of the Budapest Festival Orchestra, which he founded. He is now an 'honorary guest conductor' in Amsterdam, which has him have the best of both worlds. Mäkelä as the new chief conductor would be a bold move, traditionally their greatest conductors were pretty green when starting but rose to eminence later: Mengelberg, Haitink and Chailly. I have no idea whether or not it is a wise move, but the musicians seem to like him.
@@markokassenaar4387 I was able to watch the live video streaming Klaus' debut with Sibelius 1. It was very clear to see he and the orchestra had hit it off together marvelously.
@@DavesClassicalGuide David, many thanks for this comment, which is the fairest thing to say at this point. I've enjoyed other performances by Makela on TH-cam and plan to buy this set as I'm a Sibelius fanatic. As usual - and unlike so many others here who seem too eager to sharpen their knives - you're simply sharing your views of the recorded evidence, without condemning any future recordings by a relatively inexperienced conductor to eternal damnation. Keep up the balanced perspective!
Who knows? He's 24, so all sorts of crazy things are possible. It could be that his ultimate strength as a conductor will be with Italian opera (how far could one get from Sibelius?)
Makela recycling himself conducting Schönberg or Messiaen operas maybe? LOL.
@@alejandrosotomartin9720 Again... he's 24. Much can happen. He may need to learn more about the music that he conducts or before he tries to conduct it. He may be brilliant enough to learn from his mistakes. Or he could be stubborn enough to see nothing wrong. The latter would waste such talent as he has. Wasted talent is a much more commonplace phenomenon than most of us want to admit, and it is often the fault of the talented person.
Sibelius' seven symphonies do not form one coherent whole. They are each very different.
I see Sibelius as one of the most difficult composers to 'get'. With excellent intonation and ensemble. Sibelius' symphonies do not play themselves. Even for a listener... I got Haydn and Mozart before I 'got' Sibelius. I 'got' Bach and Tchaikovsky before I 'got' Sibelius.
OK, I 'got' Bartok and Monteverdi after Sibelius. So?
Makela bit off more than he could chew. That happens.
@@paulbrower4265 As you said, he is soo young. Give him some time to mature.
@@alejandrosotomartin9720 Haha, he would be done with that pretty quickly wouldn't he! Although if it gives us more performances of Saint Francois, I'm all for it.
I loveSibelius so much. However bland Sibelius is unacceptable. Sibelius needs to be raw and to be challenging. I remember attending Berglund conducting Sibelius and the performance sounded spontaneous and yet well prepared!!
Thanks for the warning. Not buying this cycle now. Caveat emptor!
But at least listen before writing it off. Remember that ANY review is always only subjective.
I will be brutally honest, if you have these works by ANYONE else (say Gibson, Karajan or Maazel) don't bother. They are well played, brilliantly recorded but better done by others
In the Netherlands these performances got an 'Edison Classical'. Don't shoot the messenger, 😉
Of course they did. He's working at the Concertgebouw.
Oslo is such a fine orchestra and deserve a first class conductor.
They have come so far, but sadly have taken a step backward and may take them awhile to get back.
Dave is seeing the trees and what about the forest? the wholeness of the symphony, what you get out of it that matters. And I agree that it is not enough that some parts are well done but the whole thing has to have the good parts. Alltogether, if it starts well then you get positive vibs but you get disappointed if the whole simphony is too boring.. Maybe after some years of experience the conductor finally gets it.
But if I remember correctly Bernstein starts conducting when he was 25 years old too.
yea but did he record a complete sibelius cycle
He did, but not until he was in his 40s. And there's also the question of talent. Bernstein was a genius. Let's just say the jury's still out on Mäkelä.
Just heard Klaus is going to Chicago. And he's going to Amsterdam. Are they making mistakes?
Time will tell.
@@DavesClassicalGuideOh yes. I like what he is saying about the relationship between the orchestra and the conductor. He may be wise in a way that will work for him with many orchestras. This is an interesting crucible. Can the wisdom of an orchestra, melded with the wisdom of a conductor, reveal a relationship that will reveal a new understanding of traditional works? Or reveal new works? That's the question that fascinates me. I think he may have a link. I can hardly wait for the answer.
Is this another young and promising talent thrown into the Classical Music Industry Meat Grinder in the disastrous effort to push a young face into the faces of the young so they might appreciate "Classical Music"? I fervently hope not, yet fear the worst. The coming years will tell... Which is to say I fervently hope Klaus will have the balls to say NO to the suited chaps when he doesn't feel ready to do a recording these bosses want him to do. Sadly, he missed (or worse, wasn't given) that chance when signing on with Decca for this Sibelius cycle.
My hope is that he will look back in a few years with the wisdom of experience and maturity and have the great good sense to be horrified.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Exactly my thought, Dave.
So Chicago is going to become a string forward orchestra? That doesn’t sound promising.
Sibelius symphony recordings where fussy strings drown out the winds are a hard pass for me. Personally, I have no objection to young conductors recording symphonic cycles - as long as they actually have the chops to get the job done. Sounds like that isn’t the case here.
Sibelius is not an easy composer for a musician or for an audience. His structures are often weird. He doesn't always offer the easiest tune, There is nothing cheap about Sibelius' expressions.
We now live in a world where someone like Ed Sheeran is refered to as a GENIUS.Herbie Hancock and Keith Jarrett must be offended,or just laughing at all of this crap.
It is positively DISGUSTING to use the term "Genius" to refer to a lowest-common-denominator pabyoolum hack like Ed "i'm in love with your body" Sheeran. The word has no meaning if it can be debased and misused so thoroughly, and popular taste is even more dire than i thought if something so artistically and morally distasteful can be highly acclaimed.
yep. Sheeran,s lawyer called Sheeran a genius during his court case last year. Sheeran wanted to claim copyright infingement on an interval of a major 2nd.Sadly,Spotify lists Sheeran as having 70 million listeners per month.Beethoven has less than 10 million. Pabyoolum is a great word,I will have to look up it,s meaning.@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh
Ijust posted a reply to you ,but it never showed up,or was removed.Bollocks to it and Ed Sheeran.@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh
So many good performances of Sibelius already! Who needs this lousy set? He gets under my skin because he’s just been made Music Director of my hometown orchestra, The CSO, and because so many people are raving about his performances.
Bravo 🎉 the truth !!!
I had streamed some of these performances, 4th, 6th and Tapiola, before watching your review. I must agree with your comments, as I found the interpretations boring and shapeless.
I hear the woodwinds and brass perfectly well over the string chugeda chugeda in the 3rd. It's more pronounced than in my other cycles (e.g. Berglund, Davis, Rattle, with Rattle/BPO coming closest, leading me to wonder if it has to do with digital multi-miked recording), but not to an obnoxious degree. I think this should be firmly classified under "matters of taste."
I never said you could hear them. I said the balance was wrong, which it is, and that's not a matter of taste (unless of course you like bad balances). The reason for it is irrelevant, although it's clearly the conductor and not the engineering based on his stated preferences elsewhere.
@@DavesClassicalGuide One of the persistent issues I (and many others of my acquaintance) have with your reviews is that you comment on a subjective artistic medium full of varied interpretations, and declare things "right" and "wrong."
I don't particularly like HIP Beethoven, for instance. But it's not "wrong," and it would be asinine of me to claim it.
Thanks for talking about musical chauvinism. It inhibits the fun we get listening to great "nationalistic" composers, like Sibelius. And it belies the fact that these composers only achieve greatness when listeners outside of their respective nations find value in their work. This kind of chauvinism is antithetical to the universality that is one of the best attributes of classical music. But the Germans and the Brits both do it, especially. The only reason we don't is because we are too stupid and uneducated to have any idea who are great artists really are.
Why is he getting all of these prestigious positions? Is it because he looks like a fairy prince or is it just nepotism?
Just back from an Oslo Phil concert by this conductor. Started with the first movement of the Mahler 10 before Berg and Sibelius! (1) who just does the first movement of Mahler 10 these days and (2) it is far greater music than the other composers however good they are. Then we had a rushed and over accentuated Sibelius 5 which destroys the impact of piece. He needs some version of musical vallium!
Dave you know its all marketing by the suites upstairs looking for youth, and charisma to reach the so called youth audience and be relevant.
Paul
Yes, I know.
Lol, ageist? No I’m joking. I totally agree with you; so many working professionals have arduously crawled their way to the top through hard work and experience! For a newbie to be handed so much power and control on a silver platter is senseless!
Also, I really was joking when I said you were being ageist, but I’m sure you’re well aware of the people who would accuse you of the same thing and be completely serious.
Comes with the territory.
Very good review in Gramophone! Not listened yet myself.
Ever since Rober Layton had a multiple orgasm over Simon Rattle's Sibelius Gramophone has been notoriously untrustworthy when reviewing his music.
I agree regarding his Sibelius. I've heard quite a bit of his other stuff and he shows some promise. I think he's still too young for cycles of anything. But, since he's Finnish, I guess it's assumed Mäkelä is somehow automatically good at Sibelius. As we all know, record companies have always tried to create new superstars. Maybe he'll be doing great Sibelius in another 20 years.
I fervently hope so. The fruit of this Sibelius set isn't ripe.
@@ewmbr1164 I hope so, too. I also hope I live long enough to hear it ripen.
@@leestamm3187 I'm with you on this. By then I'll be as old as Sibelius...;-)
Yeah, the 3rd movement from #5 is so homogenized. Nothing seems to stick out or bite. But I will say that Mäkelä performance of #2 is better than Sanntu-Matias Rouvali with Gothenburg. Talk about micro managing BS!
I agree. Rouvali is even worse (so far).
A detail: being Finnish he's pronounced Makela not German-style Mekele. I was worried about this from the moment I saw the bizarre hyped colours on the cover - sounds as if the music may be the aural equivalent, but I will listen to at least one of the symphonies to see.......
He's pronounced however I do it and screw the rest.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Bingo! I call him simply Klaus, that's easier for me.
I'm curious, what is your take on Saraste and Sibelius?
Check out the Sibelius cycle video.