WN is my main paint brand, and having used both of these in pan form, I can confirm that in my own experience, the Pro version is both more pigmented and easier to rewet. I switched to Pro paints from Cotman because I started to get a bit frustrated with the Burnt Sienna and the Alizarin Crimson in the Cotman, and have been much happier using the Pro/artist’s versions, as I used to find I needed several washes of the Cotman versions to get the brightness that I wanted, and they still never went quite deep enough for my liking. Aside from that though, I do still love the Cotman, and would certainly recommend them to people starting out and wanting to get a feel for watercolour.
Hi Jay 👋🏼! Thanks for the swatches. The difference isn’t big but the professional version looks noticeably deeper. This is about the only burnt sienna I’m interested in.
Thanks fro the video, Jay! Not a huge difference in appearance on screen. Cotman and WN Pro use the same pigments in general, the Cotman also contains Zinc white (Chinese white) as an extender to reduce cost. I use both, I’m perfectly happy painting with Cotman and Pro, but because of the chinese white the Cotmans tend to be easily disturbed, whereas the pro versions layer so beautifully. Fun fact: zinc oxide was called philosopher’s wool by alchemists. So you can start calling it that in your videos…. Also learned that the white extenders that all manufacturers use dont need to be listed as a pigment if they are added to the *binder* rather than mixed in as a dry pigment in the manufacturing stage.
Thanks for sharing. 😃 I'm a hobby painter, I think I will never feel ready for using professional paint. I would just waste it. I have some, but they are waiting for some miracle to happen in the darkest corner of my drawer probably until eternity. When I watch videos like this, I'm just even more convinced that student grades are perfectly fine.
In general, the biggest difference I've found between student grade and professional grade paints is that student grade paints tend to be more uniform in their characteristics within a brand. In other words, most of my student palettes are non-granulating, mostly transparent, and slightly less vibrant paints. They aren't harder to work with unless I'm looking for a huge payload of color. They aren't as likely to be lightfast, although many of them are. If student grade works for you, stick with it! But honestly, if you HAVE professional paints, I strongly encourage you to play with them. They are a different experience altogether, and you may find that the effects you can get will inspire you in a way that actually helps you get to the next level in your painting.
@@JayNathanWatercolor That's a nice sentiment but technically when a beginner uses professional paint we are wasting it because we don't have the proper technique yet and a lot of pigment ends up in the rinsing water. (and in the garbage bin). 🤐 I always understood the purpose of student grade paint. It's for learning and practicing.
Well, I will always be learning, never paint anything more valuable to me than a greeting card for family members. However I consider myself worthy enough to use the best in paint and paper, an brushes too.
I have the professional version both in pan and tube. I found the pan version quite difficult to rewet and a bit too weak for my liking. I do like the hue and prefer PR101 Burnt Siennas anyway, so I bought the tube. With the fresh paint it is much easier to get a deeper value, especially when mixing neutrals with French Ultramarine. I haven’t tried to dry the tube paint to see how it rewets though.
My preference is definitely the pro, the Cotmans although cheaper are inferior in pigment quality and this shows up noticeably when trying them for the first time. I bought a few some Cotmans, one being the burnt sienna, but I was very disappointed.
Being my first burnt sienna, i found the other that was made with PBr7 just feel weird for me, i’m perfectly fine with cotman version but the professional one seems much deeper and have a wider range from light to dark
Burnt Sienna is my favorite of the earth tones. I love looking at the different versions of each brand. I tend to like ones with a bit of yellow in it. Between these 2, it's hard to decide which one I like. They're so close. I have the Cotman version but not the professional one. Thanks for doing this.
I find them different in feel as well as rewetting and colour. It’s all about what your priorities are. If you need to eat, and paint is a long way down the list of things to pay for then it’s not worth it to get the pro stuff. If you specifically enjoy the sensation of paint on paper and certain colours and brands and paper combinations do it for you then regardless of painting ability/lightfastness etc there isn’t a substitute. If you haven’t the cash you’ll have to grit your teeth and put up with it. But I’m terms of generating an image, it will certainly work and won’t hold you back. Personally I keep some cotman paint in the car because I know what they will do, I can afford to replace them if they go missing or get dropped in a river, I can lend them to someone if it need to, I can colour match with other paint at home if I want a light fast version (yes, some are light fast) etc. If I am need of a more sensory experience rather than a sketching one I can take a paint with a formula that delivers that with me. I didn’t realise until recently that this wasn’t something that everyone considers.
I have tube professional W&N and pan Cotman. Not a fair test as yours is! However I do see more difference with the Cotman paler and more yellow. Maybe it's a wetting issue. I've actually included both in my professional palette but I'll change the Cotman for a raw sienna or yellow ochre at some point. My very pale yellowish earth at the moment is W&N Quinacridone Gold. I love it in mixes or on its own for instant mass tone shadow and thin bright lights! I haven't seen the new PR 179 version yet so I'm trying Perylene Maroon and a few other earth reds to get used to new red mixes. ;)
I saw your IG profile that you are living in Chiang Mai, so I was wondering where do you normally buy art supplies if you don't mind me asking 😊 I am from there, but now live in Norway. Probably going to move back soon though. Anyway, thank you for the reviews and amazing videos! Your artworks are incredible 👍🏻
Hi. Thank you! You're very welcome 🙏 In Chiang Mai I would usually get Holbein, Van Gogh or Winsor Newton paints from Somjai in Maya shopping mall. I get my Baohong paper from Phupha art supplies at Baan Kang Wat. Anything else I would order online from Jackson's in the UK.
It would be interesting to give them both another coat of paint, just to REALLY see if there’s a big intensity difference. - Once I upgrade to the professional W&N pan, I’ll let you know. (I won’t forget.) I do like their hue though.
I don’t see differences: if you don’t look at the separation line between the two parts it looks like the same burnt Siena. I am sure professional colour has better things inside but at the moment …..
WN is my main paint brand, and having used both of these in pan form, I can confirm that in my own experience, the Pro version is both more pigmented and easier to rewet. I switched to Pro paints from Cotman because I started to get a bit frustrated with the Burnt Sienna and the Alizarin Crimson in the Cotman, and have been much happier using the Pro/artist’s versions, as I used to find I needed several washes of the Cotman versions to get the brightness that I wanted, and they still never went quite deep enough for my liking. Aside from that though, I do still love the Cotman, and would certainly recommend them to people starting out and wanting to get a feel for watercolour.
Hi Jay 👋🏼! Thanks for the swatches. The difference isn’t big but the professional version looks noticeably deeper. This is about the only burnt sienna I’m interested in.
Yes there definitely is a difference 😊
A very slight difference on my screen, thank you this helps alot.
You’re welcome 🙏
Wow, a striking difference in depth! Thanks for sharing this swatch!
Thanks fro the video, Jay! Not a huge difference in appearance on screen. Cotman and WN Pro use the same pigments in general, the Cotman also contains Zinc white (Chinese white) as an extender to reduce cost. I use both, I’m perfectly happy painting with Cotman and Pro, but because of the chinese white the Cotmans tend to be easily disturbed, whereas the pro versions layer so beautifully. Fun fact: zinc oxide was called philosopher’s wool by alchemists. So you can start calling it that in your videos…. Also learned that the white extenders that all manufacturers use dont need to be listed as a pigment if they are added to the *binder* rather than mixed in as a dry pigment in the manufacturing stage.
I was thinking that the Pro version looked more transparent, less cloudy. Just a very tiny touch - but still noticeable.
Thanks for sharing. 😃
I'm a hobby painter, I think I will never feel ready for using professional paint. I would just waste it. I have some, but they are waiting for some miracle to happen in the darkest corner of my drawer probably until eternity. When I watch videos like this, I'm just even more convinced that student grades are perfectly fine.
The only wasted paint is paint that’s never used 🤣
In general, the biggest difference I've found between student grade and professional grade paints is that student grade paints tend to be more uniform in their characteristics within a brand. In other words, most of my student palettes are non-granulating, mostly transparent, and slightly less vibrant paints. They aren't harder to work with unless I'm looking for a huge payload of color. They aren't as likely to be lightfast, although many of them are. If student grade works for you, stick with it! But honestly, if you HAVE professional paints, I strongly encourage you to play with them. They are a different experience altogether, and you may find that the effects you can get will inspire you in a way that actually helps you get to the next level in your painting.
@@JayNathanWatercolor That's a nice sentiment but technically when a beginner uses professional paint we are wasting it because we don't have the proper technique yet and a lot of pigment ends up in the rinsing water. (and in the garbage bin). 🤐
I always understood the purpose of student grade paint. It's for learning and practicing.
Well, I will always be learning, never paint anything more valuable to me than a greeting card for family members. However I consider myself worthy enough to use the best in paint and paper, an brushes too.
@@Joan4me I totally agree with you.
The W&N prof is nice. I never used the Cotman if not the prof from WN then I prefer PBR7 for burnt sienna.
I have the professional version both in pan and tube. I found the pan version quite difficult to rewet and a bit too weak for my liking. I do like the hue and prefer PR101 Burnt Siennas anyway, so I bought the tube. With the fresh paint it is much easier to get a deeper value, especially when mixing neutrals with French Ultramarine. I haven’t tried to dry the tube paint to see how it rewets though.
I've used the Cotman Burnt Sienna from a tube into a pan, and can confirm that it is a pain to rewet.
My preference is definitely the pro, the Cotmans although cheaper are inferior in pigment quality and this shows up noticeably when trying them for the first time. I bought a few some Cotmans, one being the burnt sienna, but I was very disappointed.
Being my first burnt sienna, i found the other that was made with PBr7 just feel weird for me, i’m perfectly fine with cotman version but the professional one seems much deeper and have a wider range from light to dark
My new goal is to reach the level where the quality of burnt sienna affects the quality of the artwork I create:D
Burnt Sienna is my favorite of the earth tones. I love looking at the different versions of each brand. I tend to like ones with a bit of yellow in it. Between these 2, it's hard to decide which one I like. They're so close. I have the Cotman version but not the professional one. Thanks for doing this.
Often wondered about that! Thanks!
You’re welcome ☺️
I find them different in feel as well as rewetting and colour.
It’s all about what your priorities are. If you need to eat, and paint is a long way down the list of things to pay for then it’s not worth it to get the pro stuff.
If you specifically enjoy the sensation of paint on paper and certain colours and brands and paper combinations do it for you then regardless of painting ability/lightfastness etc there isn’t a substitute. If you haven’t the cash you’ll have to grit your teeth and put up with it. But I’m terms of generating an image, it will certainly work and won’t hold you back.
Personally I keep some cotman paint in the car because I know what they will do, I can afford to replace them if they go missing or get dropped in a river, I can lend them to someone if it need to, I can colour match with other paint at home if I want a light fast version (yes, some are light fast) etc. If I am need of a more sensory experience rather than a sketching one I can take a paint with a formula that delivers that with me. I didn’t realise until recently that this wasn’t something that everyone considers.
I have tube professional W&N and pan Cotman. Not a fair test as yours is! However I do see more difference with the Cotman paler and more yellow. Maybe it's a wetting issue. I've actually included both in my professional palette but I'll change the Cotman for a raw sienna or yellow ochre at some point. My very pale yellowish earth at the moment is W&N Quinacridone Gold. I love it in mixes or on its own for instant mass tone shadow and thin bright lights! I haven't seen the new PR 179 version yet so I'm trying Perylene Maroon and a few other earth reds to get used to new red mixes. ;)
I saw your IG profile that you are living in Chiang Mai, so I was wondering where do you normally buy art supplies if you don't mind me asking 😊 I am from there, but now live in Norway. Probably going to move back soon though.
Anyway, thank you for the reviews and amazing videos! Your artworks are incredible 👍🏻
Hi. Thank you! You're very welcome 🙏
In Chiang Mai I would usually get Holbein, Van Gogh or Winsor Newton paints from Somjai in Maya shopping mall. I get my Baohong paper from Phupha art supplies at Baan Kang Wat. Anything else I would order online from Jackson's in the UK.
@@JayNathanWatercolor Thank you very much 😊 Somjai is my go-to for art supplies too! But I will check out the other places you mentioned as well
It would be interesting to give them both another coat of paint, just to REALLY see if there’s a big intensity difference.
- Once I upgrade to the professional W&N pan, I’ll let you know.
(I won’t forget.)
I do like their hue though.
It is VERY orange!
The Professional has a deeper color than the Cotman
I don’t see differences: if you don’t look at the separation line between the two parts it looks like the same burnt Siena. I am sure professional colour has better things inside but at the moment …..
First!
🍻
Hi Upendra! Good for you 🎉
@@awatercolourist Thank you.