Acid Horizon vs. Sadler - A Reading of Nick Land's 'Fanged Noumena'
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Subscribe to Acid Horizon on Patreon: / acidhorizonpodcast
Merch: www.crit-drip.com
On this episode of Acid Horizon we’re joined by educator and public philosopher Dr Gregory B. Sadler to discuss Nick Land’s Fanged Noumena. We talk about the historical trajectory of Land’s work, his critiques of Kant and redeployments of Deleuze and Guattari, and the ways in which Land problematizes the relationship between capitalism, desire, cybernetics, and the future of the human in a landscape of accelerating and creatively dissolving forms of artificial intelligence in the information age. Other figures mentioned include Hegel, Schelling, Fichte, and Schopenhauer.
Dr. Sadler's new ' Basics of Stoic Philosophy and Practice Audio Course': • Basics of Stoic Philos...
Support local art spaces! Georges Bataille's 'The Accursed Share' reimagined by Crit Drip and Yes We Cannibal: yeswecannibal....
Contribute to Acid Horizon: / acidhorizonpodcast
Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts: tinyurl.com/16...
Happy Hour at Hippel's (Adam’s blog): happyhourathip...
New Revolts (Matt’s Blog): newrevolts.com/
Revolting Bodies (Will's Blog): revoltingbodie...
Split Infinities (Craig’s Substack): splitinfinitie...
Music: sereptie.bandc...
Had a great time in the conversation - thanks for having me on!
"We welcome Dr. Gregory B Sadler, of Dr. Gregory B Sadler fame" that's so damn real. Great rest of the episode too.
44 minutes in so far and I have to say much of the misunderstanding and confusion stems from the lack of discussing and understanding the temporality Land is utilizing. A major part of his 90s thought revolves around reverse causation: attractors located in the future producing convergent phenomena back in time
Ergo if you re-listen to this podcast in a few days your comment will have retroactively changed this podcast?
@@stevphen Quantum mechanics says yes!
It is the gravity of inevitability @@PulsatingShadow
@@PulsatingShadowdo you have a phd in quantum theory? If not… maybe don’t say shit like that lol.
Also I'm curious as to the last time Gregory Sadler actually read Anti-Oedipus or A Thousand Plateaus, e.g., at around the 56th minute what he is talking about are precisely what Deleuze and Guattari are talking about almost verbatim. Seems to me to be a microcosm of this whole ordeal here. Confusion and misunderstanding running rampant
Nice touch with Johny 5. I think part of the ‘how did Nick Land acquire the mystique he has’ that you don’t discuss also related to the moment when the book came out. So you have this moment of Urbanomic starting as a press, Collapse starting (ok technically re-starting as a journal. That’s also around when you have the emergence of ‘speculative realism’ and more experimental forms of philosophy happening in the blogosphere. Cyclonopedia comes out. And so all these things come together, all the post-Warwick effects, come together then. So I remember tabling bookfairs at the time and being excited both about reading Nick Land and reading Mark Fisher. And today that seems like a strange thing today, but at the time it felt like it was part of this new and exciting thing that was emerging.
Never read a word of the guy, but it really comes across to me that Nick Land is the kind of guy that early on, when the internet was still young, imagined we were all heading towards some sort of cyberpunk rhyzomatic digital utopian jungle. And then when it became increasingly clear that this world wasn't happening, he got depressed, disorientated and confused. He turned to drugs and reactionary politics to cope with the fact that he fully invested himself in a future that never was.
But I could be wrong
Sounds about right. Land and Mouldbugs bitterness have them supporting a return to a Monarchy.
many such cases
"never read a word of the guy" Hmmm...
Totally right
Super relatable 😭
Goddamn never expected to see this, this is so sick.
CCRUoids were malding at this lol
This was a great conversation. I will likely come back to it many times.
They talked about Land but they didn't talk about the essays much. Plenty of accusations of incoherent gibberish, but not many examples. It was like Sadler was giving a graduate level presentation and the professor nodded and said 'good job' with very little push back or critique. Hmmm.
They're scared of Land, that's all there is to it. Post-theistic monotheism is a hell of a drug.
Tbf the Acid Horizon crew seemed at least competent in discussing Land's essays. To a high degree? I don't know. But Sadler unfortunately seemed like a headless chicken. Not even able to be accurate about Deleuze and Guattari's Anti-Oedipus. Not quite Zizek on Deleuze levels of bad, but yeah it was disappointing
@@egonomics352 Then where was the competence? What point actually landed? I do like your analogy of Zizek's inability to articulate an interesting critique of Deleuze, and I would throw in his inability to critique Nietzsche as well.
They barely touched anything.
His unfinished book on Bitcoin is fantastic, even unfinished might be his best work so far IMO
Just bring Land on show and talk to him, might be more productive.
They won’t do it.
@@aboxintheblack9530are they leftists? This the first podcast of theirs that I’ve listened to.
@@Astavyastataa Seem so yeah lol
People are too afraid to be canceled because they let a guy on like that. But look at Joe Rogan and the flack he's got for letting people on left and right, and yet he's probably the most famous podcast in the world. Grow some balls people.
@@XanaduumWho would cancel them for bringing land on
What?
37:06 “you have no control but you can still tinker around with your settings” - Sisyphus smiled… because he could tinker around with his settings.
Anyone know what song their intro music is? I really dig it
Why did you guys even do this interview with Sadler if he doesn’t have anything to say about the book
YES.
An interesting aspect of what he says here, in regards to the “proto-capitalism” aspect and his re-stating that capitalism in its various forms are still being critiqued, which he finds obvious that these various forms are still getting critiques by various factions; but what I think he’s missing there; and maybe there is Land’s point, or maybe just my own; but how do you critique something within that thing? How do you critique something that gives you the language and the frame of what can and cannot be stated, or acted upon, or realized. When capital is internalized to the point where it formulates the language used, how do you then use that language to critique it? And wouldn’t it formulate itself in a way that Is endless by design, incapable of *actual* critique, instead of just superficial talking points for middle class marxists to talk about while endlessly being the footsoldiers of capital. A little lullaby for their wage cuck existance. So I think Sadler is missing the mark there, and to get a little Baudrillard, when the system of capital internalizes itself in such a way that life itself is incapable of seeing it, like a cuthulu entity at the edge of space, then where do you go from there except collapse?
One could critique photo-capitalism from the previous systems in that way, the emerging form of capital, as life was still life for these individuals; life still had substance in a way that it was capable of self-formulation, it had not internalized a form in the way that the great mythos of capital became.
A belated thank you for the discussion! Could somebody please let me know what the intro track is called?
soundcloud.com/acid-horizon-935729108/introducing-malgenic?si=1fa52df310944e14985909b77659cc94&
Who was the female author Dr. Sadler mentioned was doing what Land was doing in his edgier phase of FN?
Good question. will get back to you!
her name is Avital Ronell, the author of Dictations: On haunted writing, The Telephone book and many many more
@@AcidHorizon thanks!
@@NickJovic23 thank you!
@@NickJovic23 oh wow, how fitting that it would be an abuser
The one thing no one mentions with Land is Stewart Home. Land would have definitely knew of Stewart Home. I swear 80 percent of the exection of his ideas come from him.
Sorry could you explain how that's true a little bit? I don't know anything about that guy
1:05:00 everything is a remix and a reinvention though, so this point is kinda mute, there is no such thing as "radically new""
Hence “ nothing is new under the sun “ do you understand ?
sadler read,...WHAAATT!!!!!????!!!?!?!?! based sadler
Please please please tell me the name of that techstep banger in the intro
Actually I wrote it. I call it 'Malgenic's Intro'.
@@AcidHorizon please release it somehow its dope!!!
It's been 5 months, release the song
@@whatevermanshitsboringwhoc9530 fr lmao
Where’s the song already ? Geez, play nice 👌
who’s the philosopher me mentions at 20 mins in ??
Was he against democracy, or the simulacra of democracy that we have? And did he then see getting rid of that as a means to an end, in which case that wouldn't necessarily be right-wing depending on what he wants it replaced with. I mean, I'd like it replaced with something more democratic than "democracy".
I mean I'd appreciate any links to actual material that proves that Land is as you put it 'full fash' (fascist). I'm just so used to other lefties slinging that word around at anyone that says anything that contradicts them, critiques them or even that they don't understand, that I can't take it seriously anymore. I don't really know the guy and just getting into his work so I'm not some kind of fan of his, but you need to be more specific otherwise people will just think you're straw-manning the guy. You didn't really back up why you think he's 'the enemy' with anything of substance for example.
starts 13:50
Hey Acid Horizon, I run a channel called Text of the Matter, I'd love to talk to you and get some tips on your process. We are working towards similar ends.
39:59 “free exit” … one of the original cryptids of capitalism returns to woo us onto the rocks.
S'alright guys, we all get a little scared of face eating Shuggothic AIs from time to time.
(If Sadler liked Barker, he might enjoy reading CCRU Writings a bit more.)
I might. thanks for the recommendation.
But the question I always ask myself is "So. . . this book someone is recommending? Or the many other books I've already got by other authors who I can be confident I'll get more out of?".
@@GregoryBSadler Actually, I think most of the Geotrauma stuff from CCRU Writings is already included in the Occultures chapter in FN. Thomas Moynihan's Spinal Catastrophism, which is like a direct sequel/expansion of Barker's work might be more your speed (not sure how strongly I can recommend it as most of it goes over my hea- crown chakra). However, you'd be missing out on lemur parables, decimal numeracy, and the AOE's (the Cathedral's) quasi-masonic conspiracy to hoard UFOs & cold fusion tech which partly explains Nick's move to China.
Whats that intro Track?
soundcloud.com/acid-horizon-935729108/introducing-malgenic?si=04e26546d5684c098e50e9c3668d793f&
Can someone drop Nick lands handle wanna make sure I have the right guy
Deluze and G., ignore(purposefully, I think.) the importance of home. I see Anti-Oedipus as great literature. No one could ever live D and G, just as no one could ever live Neitzche. Anti-Dionysus would be an interesting book, eh?
i’ve been a leftist for a couple years, now i am very torn between moldbuggian/landian thought and marxism
They’re compatible if you take out the Great Man BS from Moldbug.
Moldbug isn’t that interesting on his own, so I recommend reading several related books on the side.
Wait, Nick Land is a leftist? We are talking about the same guy who wrote all that hypercapitalist accelerationist stuff? His writing is purple enough I guess you can see anything in it.
@@aboxintheblack9530 what other books would you recommend? i consider myself an accelerationist, but i’m reading more german conservative and libertarian/moldbug stuff lately, but yes i agree, moldbugs carlylean stuff is super boring and stupid to me
@@machinicassemblage Read Walter Lippmann's Public Opinion and The Phantom Public, Vilfredo Pareto's Mind and Society, and James Burnham's The Managerial Revolution.
Hype!
Intro song please!!!!
it's on our Soundcloud
This genuinely felt like a poorly rehearsed piece of theater designed to play down Lands importance. So weird.
Brings the quality of this channel right down, bring Land in to interview, or engage with the material more.
@@XanaduumWhat do you reckon Land would say in response to the "criticisms" in the video. Or how would you respond on his behalf. Idk how to
@@farzanamughal5933 some of the criticisms and jokes are fair, I mean there's a whole lot of Fanged Noumena that does read like it was fuelled by amphetamines. However they barely talked about any of his ideas or essays. Just seemed like the whole point of the video was to mock Land. But certain parts of the Left have put the hit out on this guy so now so now he's supposedly 'full fash' as the podcast states. 🤷
Waste of time. Nothing of importance was said. Skip it.
Hi Nick!
@@grief_hammer Hi
Even if it was Nick he's got a point, where were any of his ideas grappled with?
All I hear are copes
Sounds like cope from you tbh
13:48
ok
Unfortunately and disappointedly this has to be one of the worst performances by Gregory Sadler on TH-cam to date. It's actually saddening for me. I expected much more out of him
I have a friend who is an extreme economics nerd and a bernsteinian/roemerian market socialist who claims that all western countries have been getting progressively more democratic and left-leaning and a reformist transition to socialism could be very likely in the next half a century. Showed him the NRx "Cthullu swims left" stuff about democracy under capitalism neccesarily leading to communism and he claimed they are basically right. The widespread beliefs that lobbying groups have an almost biblical power over politics and the existence of falling rate of profit are also false. Wondering about how can we follow that thread in philosophy. A market socialist reading of Deleuze is needed perhaps!
Cool story bro. But you're "friend" is a dunce if he thinks we're more leftist now because Amazon flies the queer flag during pride. The wealth and power gap has never been so large. The participation to democracy is restricted to puppets pre-approved by the bourgeoisie, and herpetic right-wing authoritarian flare ups. Rub the sleep from your eyes.
@@doublenegation7870 your pfp is Hegel. Opinion discarded
@@egonomics352 hahahahahaha, approved
What planet is he from? My planet's capitalism systematically destroys democracy.
@@tomisaacson2762dude have you ever read Piketty?? Read Capital and Ideology. You’re just wrong on the facts. Democracy and Capitalism can very easily coexist.
g
: /
I agree. : /