This is the direct result of UK regulators succumbing to the blackmail of T-Mobile and Orange. They demanded the right to merge because the UK mobile was market was "too competitive". This allowed them a profitable exit and made further consolidation inevitable.
Fair point. Started the ball rolling for everyone else I guess! How do you think this all plays out in 10 years? Do you think there will be more consolidation?
@@JossHend It's already happening with the slow creep of infrastructure spin-offs and pooling. Eventually the network operators will become entities which use their brands and market share to get the best discounts from third-party infrastructure providers who serve the whole market on a non-exclusive basis. Brand and marketing will be the differentiator to the consumer.
So from technical prospective, their either going to use Network Roaming or MORAN. O2/Vodafone share sites via MORAN which allows the host network to broadcast the sharers network off the same radios (sort of like having a separate SSID). So a O2 host site will broadcast Vodafone as a "separate SSID" with Vodafone's own spectrum and vice versa. So if the use MORAN, 3 will likely be broadcasted off O2/Vodafone Shared Sites & Vodafone Only sites, and Vodafone will be broadcasted off 3 sites. Problem with this, it will produce more congestion (load, users) on these sites possibly slowing them down. And also, if Vodafone has a lower frequency in a area (which will typically be stronger than a higher frequency), it might be slower than 3's higher frequency (although weaker) signal. This means everybody on 3/VF will end up on Vodafone's "lower capacity" as the signal is stronger instead of being split between two masts and resulting with people ending up with a worse service than before. With Network Roaming, this is how Orange/T-Mobile handled their merger. It means once your primary network looses service, it will connect to the secondary if available. Problem with this is that you have to loose service on your main provider for it to switch to the other network. Network Roaming doesn't allow Call Handover (so calls will drop as it reconnects to another provider), Network Roaming doesn't switch networks automatically, you have to loose service and also, it doesn't allow the main network to broadcast the other network from their masts. With either of these solutions, there is going to be a need to decommission (remove/shutdown) a lot of existing masts to reduce interference as having multiple masts on one area broadcasting the same spectrum will degrade performance, not improve it. Its like having 5 people talking in one room, and your phone with one ear trying to listen to a specific one of them, its much harder than if there was only one person talking. All of this is fixable with good network planning and decision making, so we'll find out soon how it ends up. It's a very complicated process for both networks.
Woah this is crazy, thank you for taking the time to comment all this mate. It's truly fascinating and honestly a lot of the technical goes over my head! But very much appreciate it - a lot of value and knowledge here for everyone to read. Cheers!
Yeah! There has been a lot of consolidation over there. It's a slippery slope and consumers are almost always worse off. Have you seen any benefits for consumers? Or is it all negative?
It is You Tube who decides how many views a video gets within a certain time frame. They decide by recommendation. If they don't recommend your video to anyone, no one is gonna see or like it. If the GOOGLE policymakers don't like you or your content, very little of your work gets to be seen by others. Bit like a cat chasing his own tail. Believe me, I know.
Good point! I should’ve mentioned this. They merged in 2012 and prices went up a year later in 2013 - mainly I believe because of a big 4G rollout. So we may see something similar here with 5G! Edit: it was a 3.3% increase
I worked for EE/BT for a short stint, some staff worked back in the day for orange, all say the same thing. EE hasn't invested in their systems and salaries and commission has dropped. FFS they cut commission when I worked there 💀 more profit even at the cost of their employees
@@GuitarMikes the issue I had with EE is they kept making me pull out my SIM to check if it's an EE or 🍊 SIM. Even though I was adamant I had a EE SIM. Had to restart my phone every time. Absolute nightmare.
A few years ago, Three wanted to merge with O2 in the UK but the CMA said no, it was anti-competitive and then promptly let Virgin merge with O2 as if it wasn't the same kind of deal
@@JossHendnot great, 3 basically piggy backed on the older o2 network and it’s billing and payment infrastructure inc their customer service. 3 basically enhanced their data side of their betas it merged into o2. There was some glitches in the early days of the merger with the network having regular outages both planned and unplanned. Things have settled down now but there was a massive cost cutting operation behind the scenes as a lot of stores got closed down. Although the Irish ☘️ mobile network is surprisingly competitive particularly in pay as you go or direct debit deals coming out of a price war during the financial crash. It’s also a growing market as theirs a lot of immigration to Ireland so more customers for the network plus the landline 📞 network is very expensive in Ireland 🇮🇪 and mobile broadband is popular as it can be a lot cheaper along with all you can eat data is possible for under €20.00 a month even on prepay. As a result the network isn’t as fast or advance as it should be but Vodafone Ireland 🇮🇪 charge a premium as they have the best network coverage. Most virtual networks operate on the 3 network as a condition of their o2 merger in Ireland 🇮🇪 as they have better access arrangements to piggy back.
Crazy how that allowed 2 of the largest mobile networks to merge but when Sainsbury's and Asda 2 of the uk's largest supermarkets decided to merge that where quick to instantly shut that down be fore it could even happen
Yeah it's definitely interesting! My guess is because there are certain targets in place for the network infrastructure 🤷🏻♂️ by no means makes it right, but it's pretty clear I think. Maybe Sainsburys and ASDA will try again now!
@@JoshuaLodge2701 tbh, Vodafone and O2 wanted to merge before the Virgin/O2 thing happened and they shut it down. So it's quite a shock then that 3 is allowed to merge. But you should research these companies more in depth and the ownership would surprise you quite a bit.
Yeah it's a fair point. I was more talking about the fact that this is just further consolidation. 4 providers down to 3 is even less options for consumers - which gets tricky imo! Where does it stop? Are we going to see those 3 providers go down to 2? Who knows, I just find it interesting. What do you think?
Great to see smaller creators getting some algorithm love. This came up on my Home page, and was a solid video. Keep up the good work. As for the merge... I've had my 5G turned off ever since it came out. It's technically available where I live (I'm with EE and ID), but it's frankly worse than 4G. 4G is extremely smooth where I am, and functions on par with my 100mb broadband, while 5G rarely tops that, and is incredibly inconsistent. With any luck, this forces other companies to start taking 5G seriously, boosting our networks country wide... However, it doesn't bode well for pricing in the long term. The fewer players there are, the easier it is for them to conspire and inflate prices as a united group. It's technically breaking the law, but companies do it all the time. 😅 EDIT: I don't know if you have any co-founders, but would love offer a hand if you need it, entirely FOC. I'm looking to get some experience, and considering a Skool community of my own one day! I used to run a fairly successful Personal Finance brand, so we align fairly well.
Appreciate the support mate, thank you! 🤝 Wow yeah I've heard some similar stories. 5G just isn't up to scratch for the majority of users yet. I think I've only managed to maintain a *somewhat* decent 5G signal a handful of times 😅 You make some good points. I think this is all a push in the right direction in terms of infrastructure but it's certainly going to mean higher prices for consumers in the long run. We'll have to wait and see!
@@JossHendThat was a speedy reply, kudos! 😂 Agreed, only time will tell tbh. Cautious optimism is probably the way to go! I've taken a look at a few other videos, and like what you're trying to do. I've edited my original comment and added a pitch. Let me know if you'd like a conversation. 👍 Regardless, best of luck to you. 💪
Absolutely mate! Cautious optimism is often the best approach. Ahh nice man, I appreciate it. Drop me a message on instagram and we can have a chat there 👋
Great insights. There is another layer of complexity! I used to work for Telefonica as a contractor managing the data process for consolidating the mobile infrastructure sites for Vodafone and Telefinica so they could share the same sites. That was a few years ago so . . . Vodafone has aleady achieved some cost saving benefits from those activities . . . The same benefits would be possible again with Vodafone and 3 at lower mobile phone frequencies. At higher frequencies the range is shorter, many more mobile base stations are needed. It takes a lot of planning etc rolling out new 5G base stations.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that mate, very interesting insight. There must be so much more to this that I've missed as well. So many details about all the infrastructure and little technicalities - hopefully we get more visibility on it all soon!
Nice detailed vid. I believe after the mandated 3 years of fixed price period, we'll see the reality of the merged entity: higher prices, bit higher speeds, but MVNOs being shafted from more bands when full 5G rollout is underway. Plus the fact that their inflation-linked prices increase every year, I wonder how long it will be sustainable.
Yeah I've heard people having similar issues in London and Manchester! That's one of 5G's biggest flaws currently. On paper though, Three's 5G is the best - hopefully we se some big improvements soon.
There is an important difference between speed and reliability. Three has the infrastructure for the fastest 5G network in the UK, but EE has the most reliable network. Which one is ‘best’ is up to interpretation. Personally I value reliability over speed so I consider EE to be the best, but if you happen to live in an area with strong 5G coverage then you’d get faster speeds with Three and might consider them the best.
It’s great to see smaller creators getting started and that this video is getting some traction! Just as a bit of feedback, I personally think it would flow a little better if it felt less like you were reading from a script, both eye-line wise and how the script and content are structured, perhaps with some varied punch ins and B-roll to help break it up (I think Vincent chan has nailed this format so it may be worth taking a look if you haven’t already)? I also feel as though limiting yourself to gen Z is almost compartmentalising the audience versus a more general tagline of “helping the next generation” or something of that nature. That’s just my two cents 😁
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it 🤝 Also thank you for the feedback, it’s very much appreciated. Definitely trying to find the right flow of things still as there is so much context to get into these stories! I’ll check out Vincent’s content thank you for the recommendation. Really appreciate your thoughts mate, cheers!
I'd say this is a good thing, we still have O2, EE and this new merger. I personally use a vodafone and smarty (three) sim because of the spotty network in my city so I'll always have a connection. This has been a major issue here since they started getting rid of 3G. this is great for the customers in smaller areas of the UK where investment isn't exactly common. Stuff like this has happened in the past, T-Mobile and Orange merging to form EE, BT and EE merging. O2 and Virgin Media merging. Those past mergers have helped with coverage in the past, so a merger on this scale is honestly brilliant. I just hope the pricing won't change too much.
Nice mate! I’ve heard of a lot of people doing similar things for patchy coverage - seems like a great solution to be honest. Yeah I agree, the infrastructure will see huge improvements. My concerns like yours come from prices. Less options for consumers means prices could go a bit silly. We’ll have to wait and see 🤷♂️ Would you consider changing provider if it got bad for you? Or is that not an option in your area?
@ I was with virgin back when they merged with O2 and while things did get slightly better, it just isn’t a good option. Was only with them because it was cheaper to get the broadband contract with the sim than it was without. One of the places I frequently go has near 0 coverage with both O2/EE, but has a very good connection with 3 (one of the cell towers is on the roof of that building). Near where I live there’s not very good coverage with 3 but there is for Vodafone, so in my situation this is fine, and in the future I’ll be paying for one plan and not two. Only paying smarty £12 month for my sim (100GB) so that’d be the one I keep when everything goes through. While I do expect price increases, I highly doubt it’d be double so in my unique situation this is a good change, but I can see how it would be terrible for some too. Probably could have condensed that down a bit, just trying to get my thoughts on the situation out there.
That's fair enough mate. I think there are a lot of people in your situation tbh. The TikTok that I mentioned in the video had a bunch of similar comments - good service in one location, but terrible in another. Sticking with smarty sounds like a great shout and like you'll reap all the benefits of this, which is great! I think what I've learned covering this story, is that coverage is very unique for each person and that massively informs their decision making. Some hate certain networks, while others swear by them. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's all very interesting.
@josshend I’m on the best network for my area which is Smarty (Three), the other networks don’t even work. But even with that, I’m in a big old Victorian house and the phone signal doesn’t go through the outside walls, therefore Wi-Fi using Eero 6 units is the only option. I have multiple units all over the house. Without them and WiFi calling, I would never get mobile reception inside the house unless the phone is by the window in any given room.
The UK's 5G rollout has been horrific! I don't know whether it will be good for competition and price but if Vodafone keep to their promise of building out 5GSA then we might get access to better speeds and reliability. I had Three 5G Home Broadband for 2 years and it was terrible! Speeds were up and down like a YoYo, ping were way too high and constantly dropping back to 4G.
Yeah it's definitely not be great so far. That sounds like an absolute nightmare! Fingers crossed this merger means better speeds and reliability like you said 🤞 I think the initial rollout was rushed or at least no where near the level that consumers were promised - what do you think led to it being so bad?
Vodafone and 3 merged in Australia a number of years ago, Vodafone are probably our worst provider here. The 3 name was dropped fairly quickly and with so many of their customers not liking Vodafone they left in droves and went elsewhere, including to providers who were far more expensive.
merged in 2010 and killed orange and t-mobile brands in 2015. 4g launch was 2012, and they rebranded from Everything Everywhere (2010 merger name) to EE. Sold to BT in 2016.
The merger into EE created so many coverage issues where Orange masts were dropped in favour of T-Mobile and vice versa, leaving so many customers in signal blackspots just weeks after taking out new, or renewing contracts. Of course, that was then, EE has now been swallowed by BT, which has the largest infrastructure/backhaul in the country.
i find it interesting as an aussie here. that about 15 years ago or so something similar happened with Vodafone AU and 3. or well i think 3 was more so mvno then operator. but 3's business killed and put into Vodafone Australia
Yeah that’s very interesting! I didn’t realise this at first but it’s interesting that the UK business has stayed around for so long. What was that experience like as an Aussie? Was it a seamless process or not?
@JossHend I was 4 or so I didnt really have a phone didn't even know we had 3 till I saw old signs for recharging prepaid and saw it in a tv show and looked it up on Wikipedia
The government can’t intervene with the CMA, we’ve seen this with the Activision Blizzard Microsoft merger where Microsoft made direct threats to the UK government. It would’ve only been approved because at least one of them would’ve gone bankrupt, resulting in that loss of competition anyway.
You make a good point - I just don’t think it can be completely ruled out. If that was the case, why hasn’t that been made obvious? Again, I don’t disagree with you, I just don’t think it’s so black and white.
@ Yeah you’re right about CMA not making it obvious, but then again their behaviour has been quite hawkish as of late and I doubt they’d want to be seen as making a decision they don’t fully believe in - they’d much rather approve a merger that is good for competition rather than one that is the lesser of all evils. One look at the debt levels of both companies, lacklustre infrastructure successes, and it’s quite clear that one would’ve ended up buying the other anyway, CMA’s decision was ultimately whether it’d be at liquidation or in a merger. The framing of such decisions is likely just CMA politics and wanting to be seen as the harsh regulator they’ve proven themselves to be over the past few years, rather than any conspiracies. I’d imagine some stuff could be FOIA’d though if you’re curious.
I feel while archaic, I go to uni and have eduroam (wifi everywhere) so I don't use a data plan as much, I don't understand why they decided to pick a price cap of 3 years, why not longer if the consequences could be massive?
BT are contacting people on broadband telling them to move to EE. They will not release people from BT contracts to go elsewhere, but suggest new deals with EE that start at £5/month more. BT claims they are not providing broadband any longer. That's a bit underhanded.
Personally, I cannot wait for the merger to occur, currently I'm under a contract with 3 which I've left it too long to be able to cancel, and the place where I live, 3 is pretty spotty, where indoors it drops to No Service, which I find quite peculiar since I live quite close to the city, and this may show the network inequalities of the UK, and the only provider that gives me a good service is Vodafone, however, they're quite bad in the city and EE/3 work well in, which is where I feel like the merge would benefit me in two fold. The only thing that has been left me questioning is the price rises that may arise due to this merger since vodafone is quite expensive in terms of SIM deals, and if the networks would be able to handle the load of the multitude of customers during the starting phase of the merger, however, I feel like time would tell. By the way, great video, I honestly didn't even know when they'd propose to merge since it's quite hidden in certain news articles, and the quality of the video gave me an impression that you had more of an audience or subscribers, and I was also surprised that they've even allowed it to happen at the start, since the Three O2 merger didn't go as planned.
Woah that’s rubbish for you! Fingers crossed this merger will give you all the benefits you need 🤞 like you said, on paper it looks promising but I think time will tell! Yeah the price rises will be interesting after that 3 year period - they’ll have to remain competitive but they’ll definitely push things as much as they can. I think there will definitely be some teething issues as things get started under the merger but we’ll have to wait and see what those are. Appreciate the kind words! Trying to bring these stories, that actually affect consumers, to life. If things go south would you go to another provider? If so, who?
@JossHend If things were to go south, I would go with O2 since EE is oversubscribed in my area and their prices are quite expensive in general. I also hope if they’d do a price rise after the three years, that it’s a gradual rise and not a huge spike in one night since I feel like that would cause customer complaints. Anyhow, I feel like there would be some sort of benefit for everyone not limited to just the people who don’t have a great signal. Also no problem, I wish you the best and preach the things that you’re doing!
That's fair enough mate. I agree about the prices - I think there would be uproar if they hiked prices too quickly. It's an essential service for people and quickly jacking up prices would cause chaos. Yeah fingers crossed we all get the benefits, that's the ideal scenario anyway. I'm just praying for decent 5G where I live! 😅
Vodafone was once upon a time, long long ago called GEC Racal radio systems... And it was part government owned. No different to BP, British rail, BT, British gas etc...
as a gen z, this was a really interesting video to watch and everything you said it was really easy to understand so thank you so much! i’ll def be watching more of tour videos, hoping 2025 is gonna be a great year for your channel, you deserve it :) 🎉❤
Nice mate! Yeah it sounds like you’re in an ideal position here. When you use the better service in each location, is the other unusable or just not as good?
Controversial opinion, there should absolutely not be several dozen mobile netwoeks, or, they should go the way of openreach and have a single core network that is resold. I shouldn't have go base my network choice off who happens to have the best signal where I'm most active.
doesnt sound very different to different to orange & T-monile combining to make EE. the better option for consumers would be a single physical network in the country rather than every network duplicating the infrastructure of the others. this way everyone should get much better network coverage across the country, and there could be much more competition with everyone buying from virtual networks all operating on the same network. the only differences between them would be price and customer service quality and the possibility of new virtual networks popping up to compete on price if the existing ones wont.
I'm in two minds on this - I don't see Voda and Three being the bigger of the networks, it seems that O2 and EE dominate the space, so I'm not sure how much it would impact competition, but as someone who's been using a SMARTY (owned by Three) SIM for a while and rarely finding a place where O2's (much more pricey) service is better, I'm slightly concerned as it's one less reason to keep the great deals that Three offer on their SMARTY brand (I'm paying £8/mo for 50G data), but if service improves, which I'm sure it will if they combine the Three & Voda networks, I don't think I'd have the right to demand that for free
Completely fair point! I agree O2 and EE seem to have more of a market share, it's just on paper that this merger will be larger. Smarty is a great option but you make a great point about those costs rising. I think there will always be a place for that type of service, as they make up a big share of the market now - Vodafone have Voxi which is similar to Smarty. I think it's sadly just a waiting game at this point. Better coverage is a win for everyone but they'll definitely try to cover their costs where they can! Hopefully you don't see your monthly costs rise too much. Would you consider moving to another provider if things got out of hand? Or is it worth paying for the more reliable service in your area?
Virgin Media and O2 merged, and BT and EE merged. Why are Three and Vodafone not allowed? We see significant investments when mergers happen without job loss and improve customer experience, so it’s a win-win.
Completely fair point mate! I was personally more surprised because it just consolidates the market even further. I didn’t expect anymore mergers when there’s already very little competition - but you make some great points 🤝 Do you think we could see even more merging in the future?
BT didn't compete with EE, Virgin didn't compete with O2, there was no reduction in competition. With Vodafone and Three, there will be a reduction in competition from 4 operators to 3.
UK mobile networks lag behind, too many black spots. There is no one provider that can reliably give you coverage across the country. Having moved to another part of the UK from London, I’m forced to change provider not because of price. But because I get 0 signal in my new town. It’s not true competition at the moment because providers have carved up the country. If you moved to a small town somewhere, you don’t have a choice between the 4 providers. You are limited because there is usually only one, that actually provides good signal. I look forward to the day when I can actually shop around on PRICE ONLY, without having to worry if the provider actually gives a good signal where I am.
That's a completely fair point! I agree with you. It makes the consumer experience an absolute nightmare and means providers aren't actually striving to make a better product. Hopefully we all see some improvements with this as we head towards the 2030 5G goals. Fingers crossed for us both mate 🤞
3 years of no price rises is ridiculously low. Should have been 5 years, then after that, another 5 years of prices being allowed to increase by inflation, but minus 1%. So that means 10 years of below inflation increases. I doubt they would be so keen to merge then!
@JossHend With all these mega mergers, regulators should impose price restrictions for a decade, at least. If the CEOs don't get to reap the benefits for a decade or more, they will be less keen on anti competitive mergers. I don't have a problem with mega mergers, but we need to make them less attractive.
Yeah I don't disagree with you, protecting consumers for longer is always good. I think this was made all too easy for them, 3 years is nothing for these businesses. I think regulators have a tricky job of balancing competitiveness, innovation and putting consumers first. Not easy! But this was a miss from the CMA in my opinion.
Yeah! There will be some benefits but I think it’s a bad move in the long run. Regulators are meant to do their thing but 🤷♂️ Will this affect you much?
Telecom companies merge constantly, as they mostly all use the same infrastructure then lease it out. Virgin Media and O2 merged, and so did BT and EE. Not much will change except for better connectivity for most consumers. The competition is still there. If Vodafone decide to skyrocket the prices tenfold, then it'll be an easy opportunity for O2, BY, Sky etc to undercut them.
Fair point mate! Personally just surprised that further consolidation of the market was allowed. Does it end here or do we see 3 providers turn into 2? Who knows! All very interesting though
i loved 3. when other network's were giving you like 4gb for £20 (ee, o2 etc.) 3 was banging out £15 pay as you go unlimited data. Now I'm on smarty and still getting £15 a month but they have rolled out a plan for those of us who are on benefits. £12 a month for unlimited data.
Nice mate! I've heard good things about smarty. Those options (vodafone also have voxi) make sense for a lot of consumers. Hopefully there is still a place for them after this merger!
I’ve used vodaphone in the past and I’m currently with 3. 3 has been alright, ish, but the customer service hasn’t been good. Nothing about vodaphone was redeemable. I’ve considered jumping ship for a while, and I’m definitely going to now. There’s no chance I’m going to deal with vodaphone again
Woah fair play mate. Who gets your custom going forward do you think? I've heard a lot of horror stories from 3 customers - mainly all complaining about the customer service. Which is a shame because they used to be decent! Same goes for Vodafone. Maybe after this merger things will improve - we'll see 🤷🏻♂️
BT owns EE (which itself is Orange and T-Mobile merged) and Virgin O2 are already merged companies. Vodafone & Three are kind of correct that they can't compete against these merged behemoths. Vodafone would do well to rebrand in the merger, they are not a well-liked company
Three is terrible for signal and customer service but they’re cheap and their sub company, Smarty is even cheaper so I stick with them. The industry has changed to the point calls and texts are now unlimited as standard and it’s arguing about how much they charge for a block of data. I assume Starlink will shake this all up again in time.
Yeah I’ve heard some horror stories about that! Smarty seem great though. That’s a great point maybe I could spoken about that or I will in future videos. Starlink and Apples emergency SOS service could shake things up if the expand their offering. Would you consider switching to this merged company if smarty goes away? Or would you look elsewhere?
Woah no way! I didn't realise that. Very much still a thing currently in the UK... for now 😬 Do you guys have any similar situations to this in Australia?
@@JossHend We had TPG and Vodafone merger in 2020 and now TPG want a sale of its enterprise, government, and wholesale fixed business and fibre network assets to a company called Vocus for $2.6b pounds. This is subject to our Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) so that Vocus wont have the monopoly once they're allowed to buy it, its subject to stakeholder feedback on its potential impact on market competition. We also just had our 3G network shut down putting thousands of people in hot water when they're phones just bricked themselves, The telecom companies just said " tough shit , go buy another phone, bye "
Oh wow 😳 that’s nuts mate. Which way does it seem things will go? Also to just pull the 3G coverage like that is absolutely insane, customers must’ve been fuming. It would be absolute chaos in the UK if that happened. I wasn’t aware of any of that thanks for sharing.
@@JossHend Seems like TH-cam doesn't want to show the comment you replied to so I hope I'm not repeating. 3 used to exist in Australia along with Vodafone but around 2009 Vodafone announced the joint venture with 3 creating Vodafone Hutchinson Australia now named TPG Telecom after they merged with TPG. Now the Vodafone brand along with some others still exist but are under TPG as a parent company. Interesting to get some idea of how things might look but the Australian mobile network market is quite different to us with many rural areas which I imagine to be a lot harder to cover being much bigger land mass. Their Wikipedia and Vodafone newsroom has some more details on how things went as they merged.
Mc and mac are the exact same when pronouced mc is a shotern version of mac and is pronouced as mac. I wish i had known about this before moving to 3 from vodafone...
Three: Network is crap but customer service is good Vodafone: Network is good but Customer Service is dogshite O2: Great network and Customer Service. After Virgin merger: O2 customer service is Dogshite, but service is lacking greatly.
Seems like no one can maintain a balance of both then! Feel very lucky as I’ve never personally had any major issues but I’ve heard a lot of customer service horror stories 😬
@@JossHend but in truth it also means that the market share would get somewhat narrow. O2/Virgin, EE/BT, 3/Vodafone: but a whole bunch of MVNO's on all networks. I believe a earlier comment stated that soon these networks would simply be brands or some kind of market place. That is a highly likely possibility. But also it's hard for anyone to rival these major networks as well as unless you have billions£ in the bank to afford it. You should probs do a video on MVNOs and look into how someone starts one up, as well as how they work. That gives an inside to how larger the mobile network space is as every network operator (there's only three of them), have at least 1 MVNO (VOX, GiffGaff, ID Mobile). But also what sub count for you to operate.
The goal of company bosses is to make as much money as they can for shareholders and boost the price of their share options, not to serve the customers. This won't end well. Without enforceable commitments to guarantee certain investments these mergers don't end well for consumers. And what is this business of raising prices a certain level above the inflation rate the government allows them every year? So they raise the price which in turn raises the rate of inflation, then they get to raise the prices next year again through inflation they themselves create. What a joke!!
I would rather have vodafone merge with ee, then three to merge with o2/virgin. purely because virgin is absolute shiet, and inhereting their infrastructure would make them try to be better for once lol
@JossHend The issue is that the milk as already been spilt, multiple times, with mergers of other networks such as EE and Virgin/O2. One way is to stop any further mergers and encourage break ups by giving a competitive edge to smaller networks. I don't want to go down the government subsidiary route either (see what happened with EVs).
@@schtormm smart grids, tracking and 15 min cities are no conspiracy its written down on their agenda. keir starmer is a product of the WEF young leaders program. ALL OF THIS IS PROVEN FACT
I'm with 3 PAYG. I regularly get a very fast roughly 320Mbps download and 80Mbps upload 5G speeds. This is inside my flat. Outside the fastest 5G I've ever got is 1052Gbps download and 178Mbps upload! Hopefully after the merger my 5G speeds remain lol. Or even get quicker.
Woah that’s impressive! I’ve heard of a lot of bad experiences with 5G, so it’s nice to know someone is getting good results 😅 fingers crossed for you bud. Would you consider moving provider if the speeds changed?
1052 Gbps, woah that is faster than Nasa, BT, Google, Meta combined lol. but yea you got very lucky with 5G with your 1Gbps connection over mobile data.
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This is the direct result of UK regulators succumbing to the blackmail of T-Mobile and Orange. They demanded the right to merge because the UK mobile was market was "too competitive". This allowed them a profitable exit and made further consolidation inevitable.
Fair point. Started the ball rolling for everyone else I guess! How do you think this all plays out in 10 years? Do you think there will be more consolidation?
@@JossHend It's already happening with the slow creep of infrastructure spin-offs and pooling. Eventually the network operators will become entities which use their brands and market share to get the best discounts from third-party infrastructure providers who serve the whole market on a non-exclusive basis. Brand and marketing will be the differentiator to the consumer.
Fair enough mate I think you're right. Time will tell! Thanks for watching bud
Inititivaes like SRN are taking us there slowly @@peterd788
So from technical prospective, their either going to use Network Roaming or MORAN. O2/Vodafone share sites via MORAN which allows the host network to broadcast the sharers network off the same radios (sort of like having a separate SSID). So a O2 host site will broadcast Vodafone as a "separate SSID" with Vodafone's own spectrum and vice versa.
So if the use MORAN, 3 will likely be broadcasted off O2/Vodafone Shared Sites & Vodafone Only sites, and Vodafone will be broadcasted off 3 sites. Problem with this, it will produce more congestion (load, users) on these sites possibly slowing them down. And also, if Vodafone has a lower frequency in a area (which will typically be stronger than a higher frequency), it might be slower than 3's higher frequency (although weaker) signal. This means everybody on 3/VF will end up on Vodafone's "lower capacity" as the signal is stronger instead of being split between two masts and resulting with people ending up with a worse service than before.
With Network Roaming, this is how Orange/T-Mobile handled their merger. It means once your primary network looses service, it will connect to the secondary if available. Problem with this is that you have to loose service on your main provider for it to switch to the other network. Network Roaming doesn't allow Call Handover (so calls will drop as it reconnects to another provider), Network Roaming doesn't switch networks automatically, you have to loose service and also, it doesn't allow the main network to broadcast the other network from their masts.
With either of these solutions, there is going to be a need to decommission (remove/shutdown) a lot of existing masts to reduce interference as having multiple masts on one area broadcasting the same spectrum will degrade performance, not improve it. Its like having 5 people talking in one room, and your phone with one ear trying to listen to a specific one of them, its much harder than if there was only one person talking.
All of this is fixable with good network planning and decision making, so we'll find out soon how it ends up. It's a very complicated process for both networks.
Woah this is crazy, thank you for taking the time to comment all this mate. It's truly fascinating and honestly a lot of the technical goes over my head! But very much appreciate it - a lot of value and knowledge here for everyone to read. Cheers!
I have seen what happens when network providers merge in the US. Prices go up and competition becomes minimal. The merger is for shareholders.
Yeah! There has been a lot of consolidation over there. It's a slippery slope and consumers are almost always worse off. Have you seen any benefits for consumers? Or is it all negative?
@JossHend No.
Damn fair enough
When I clicked on the video before looking at the views I thought it would have atleast 50k!
Same here mate
Ahhh thank you guys! Appreciate the support 🤝
It is You Tube who decides how many views a video gets within a certain time frame.
They decide by recommendation. If they don't recommend your video to anyone, no one is gonna see or like it. If the GOOGLE policymakers don't like you or your content, very little of your work gets to be seen by others. Bit like a cat chasing his own tail. Believe me, I know.
Does anyone remember the Orange T mobile merge? How much did prices jump when they became EE
Good point! I should’ve mentioned this. They merged in 2012 and prices went up a year later in 2013 - mainly I believe because of a big 4G rollout. So we may see something similar here with 5G!
Edit: it was a 3.3% increase
@@JossHendi remember orange used to let you top up any amount. I'd top up 10p just in case I'd need to ring someone.
I worked for EE/BT for a short stint, some staff worked back in the day for orange, all say the same thing. EE hasn't invested in their systems and salaries and commission has dropped. FFS they cut commission when I worked there 💀 more profit even at the cost of their employees
No way!! That’s so bad
@@GuitarMikes the issue I had with EE is they kept making me pull out my SIM to check if it's an EE or 🍊 SIM. Even though I was adamant I had a EE SIM. Had to restart my phone every time. Absolute nightmare.
In Ireland Three bought O2 and replaced O2 branding with Three
Oh wow no way! I didn't realise that. What was the exchange like? Any issues for customers, or relatively straightforward?
A few years ago, Three wanted to merge with O2 in the UK but the CMA said no, it was anti-competitive and then promptly let Virgin merge with O2 as if it wasn't the same kind of deal
@@JossHendnot great, 3 basically piggy backed on the older o2 network and it’s billing and payment infrastructure inc their customer service. 3 basically enhanced their data side of their betas it merged into o2. There was some glitches in the early days of the merger with the network having regular outages both planned and unplanned. Things have settled down now but there was a massive cost cutting operation behind the scenes as a lot of stores got closed down. Although the Irish ☘️ mobile network is surprisingly competitive particularly in pay as you go or direct debit deals coming out of a price war during the financial crash. It’s also a growing market as theirs a lot of immigration to Ireland so more customers for the network plus the landline 📞 network is very expensive in Ireland 🇮🇪 and mobile broadband is popular as it can be a lot cheaper along with all you can eat data is possible for under €20.00 a month even on prepay. As a result the network isn’t as fast or advance as it should be but Vodafone Ireland 🇮🇪 charge a premium as they have the best network coverage. Most virtual networks operate on the 3 network as a condition of their o2 merger in Ireland 🇮🇪 as they have better access arrangements to piggy back.
Crazy how that allowed 2 of the largest mobile networks to merge but when Sainsbury's and Asda 2 of the uk's largest supermarkets decided to merge that where quick to instantly shut that down be fore it could even happen
Yeah it's definitely interesting! My guess is because there are certain targets in place for the network infrastructure 🤷🏻♂️ by no means makes it right, but it's pretty clear I think.
Maybe Sainsburys and ASDA will try again now!
We've never seen it happen in that industry, the gov would be hypocrites too have allowed EE to form and then merge with BT and not allow this
@@JoshuaLodge2701 tbh, Vodafone and O2 wanted to merge before the Virgin/O2 thing happened and they shut it down. So it's quite a shock then that 3 is allowed to merge. But you should research these companies more in depth and the ownership would surprise you quite a bit.
@@JoshuaLodge2701 Britain's entire network, and it's entire infrastructure is practically built and owned by foreign entities.
BT merged with EE; O2 with Virgin Media - so then Vodafone and Three doesn't seem so silly?
Yeah it's a fair point. I was more talking about the fact that this is just further consolidation. 4 providers down to 3 is even less options for consumers - which gets tricky imo! Where does it stop? Are we going to see those 3 providers go down to 2? Who knows, I just find it interesting. What do you think?
Great to see smaller creators getting some algorithm love. This came up on my Home page, and was a solid video. Keep up the good work.
As for the merge... I've had my 5G turned off ever since it came out. It's technically available where I live (I'm with EE and ID), but it's frankly worse than 4G. 4G is extremely smooth where I am, and functions on par with my 100mb broadband, while 5G rarely tops that, and is incredibly inconsistent.
With any luck, this forces other companies to start taking 5G seriously, boosting our networks country wide...
However, it doesn't bode well for pricing in the long term. The fewer players there are, the easier it is for them to conspire and inflate prices as a united group. It's technically breaking the law, but companies do it all the time. 😅
EDIT: I don't know if you have any co-founders, but would love offer a hand if you need it, entirely FOC. I'm looking to get some experience, and considering a Skool community of my own one day! I used to run a fairly successful Personal Finance brand, so we align fairly well.
Appreciate the support mate, thank you! 🤝
Wow yeah I've heard some similar stories. 5G just isn't up to scratch for the majority of users yet. I think I've only managed to maintain a *somewhat* decent 5G signal a handful of times 😅
You make some good points. I think this is all a push in the right direction in terms of infrastructure but it's certainly going to mean higher prices for consumers in the long run. We'll have to wait and see!
@@JossHendThat was a speedy reply, kudos! 😂
Agreed, only time will tell tbh. Cautious optimism is probably the way to go!
I've taken a look at a few other videos, and like what you're trying to do. I've edited my original comment and added a pitch. Let me know if you'd like a conversation. 👍
Regardless, best of luck to you. 💪
Absolutely mate! Cautious optimism is often the best approach.
Ahh nice man, I appreciate it. Drop me a message on instagram and we can have a chat there 👋
Great insights. There is another layer of complexity!
I used to work for Telefonica as a contractor managing the data process for consolidating the mobile infrastructure sites for Vodafone and Telefinica so they could share the same sites.
That was a few years ago so . . . Vodafone has aleady achieved some cost saving benefits from those activities . . . The same benefits would be possible again with Vodafone and 3 at lower mobile phone frequencies. At higher frequencies the range is shorter, many more mobile base stations are needed. It takes a lot of planning etc rolling out new 5G base stations.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that mate, very interesting insight. There must be so much more to this that I've missed as well. So many details about all the infrastructure and little technicalities - hopefully we get more visibility on it all soon!
Nice detailed vid. I believe after the mandated 3 years of fixed price period, we'll see the reality of the merged entity: higher prices, bit higher speeds, but MVNOs being shafted from more bands when full 5G rollout is underway.
Plus the fact that their inflation-linked prices increase every year, I wonder how long it will be sustainable.
Thank you!! Yeah I think you're right mate. Very good point. Time will tell but I think things are going to get messy real fast
Amazingly informative and entertaining video!
Ahhh thank you so much! Appreciate the support 🤝 what did you enjoy about it?
Really good content mate! Youve got your final double digit subscriber (99th) 😊
Ahhh thank you mate!! Appreciate the support bro 🤝
Great video subscribed!
Thank you for the support! Appreciate it mate 🤝
Went to go subscribe and didnt realise you had less than. 150. Subs really high quality content
Ahhh appreciate it mate!! Thanks for the support 🤝
3 has the best 5g network in the UK? lmao its literally so shit I cant get any signal in the city centre so Idk how.
Yeah I've heard people having similar issues in London and Manchester! That's one of 5G's biggest flaws currently. On paper though, Three's 5G is the best - hopefully we se some big improvements soon.
Not In Cambridge it’s not,I’m getting Giga bit speeds with Three,couldn’t be happier.
@@alancobbinDo your social superiors know you're on the peasant network? 🤳🏻👀
There is an important difference between speed and reliability. Three has the infrastructure for the fastest 5G network in the UK, but EE has the most reliable network. Which one is ‘best’ is up to interpretation. Personally I value reliability over speed so I consider EE to be the best, but if you happen to live in an area with strong 5G coverage then you’d get faster speeds with Three and might consider them the best.
Very good point mate. It's completely subjective.
It’s great to see smaller creators getting started and that this video is getting some traction!
Just as a bit of feedback, I personally think it would flow a little better if it felt less like you were reading from a script, both eye-line wise and how the script and content are structured, perhaps with some varied punch ins and B-roll to help break it up (I think Vincent chan has nailed this format so it may be worth taking a look if you haven’t already)?
I also feel as though limiting yourself to gen Z is almost compartmentalising the audience versus a more general tagline of “helping the next generation” or something of that nature.
That’s just my two cents 😁
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it 🤝
Also thank you for the feedback, it’s very much appreciated. Definitely trying to find the right flow of things still as there is so much context to get into these stories! I’ll check out Vincent’s content thank you for the recommendation.
Really appreciate your thoughts mate, cheers!
@JossHend best of luck to you, pleasure! 😁
I'd say this is a good thing, we still have O2, EE and this new merger. I personally use a vodafone and smarty (three) sim because of the spotty network in my city so I'll always have a connection. This has been a major issue here since they started getting rid of 3G. this is great for the customers in smaller areas of the UK where investment isn't exactly common.
Stuff like this has happened in the past, T-Mobile and Orange merging to form EE, BT and EE merging. O2 and Virgin Media merging. Those past mergers have helped with coverage in the past, so a merger on this scale is honestly brilliant. I just hope the pricing won't change too much.
Nice mate! I’ve heard of a lot of people doing similar things for patchy coverage - seems like a great solution to be honest.
Yeah I agree, the infrastructure will see huge improvements. My concerns like yours come from prices. Less options for consumers means prices could go a bit silly. We’ll have to wait and see 🤷♂️
Would you consider changing provider if it got bad for you? Or is that not an option in your area?
@ I was with virgin back when they merged with O2 and while things did get slightly better, it just isn’t a good option. Was only with them because it was cheaper to get the broadband contract with the sim than it was without.
One of the places I frequently go has near 0 coverage with both O2/EE, but has a very good connection with 3 (one of the cell towers is on the roof of that building). Near where I live there’s not very good coverage with 3 but there is for Vodafone, so in my situation this is fine, and in the future I’ll be paying for one plan and not two. Only paying smarty £12 month for my sim (100GB) so that’d be the one I keep when everything goes through. While I do expect price increases, I highly doubt it’d be double so in my unique situation this is a good change, but I can see how it would be terrible for some too.
Probably could have condensed that down a bit, just trying to get my thoughts on the situation out there.
That's fair enough mate. I think there are a lot of people in your situation tbh. The TikTok that I mentioned in the video had a bunch of similar comments - good service in one location, but terrible in another. Sticking with smarty sounds like a great shout and like you'll reap all the benefits of this, which is great!
I think what I've learned covering this story, is that coverage is very unique for each person and that massively informs their decision making. Some hate certain networks, while others swear by them. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's all very interesting.
I’ve accepted that in the UK, WiFi calling IS my mobile network. Outside coverage is terrible. In other words, my iPhone is basically an iPod Touch.
No way! That’s horrendous. Is there no decent option in your area?
@josshend I’m on the best network for my area which is Smarty (Three), the other networks don’t even work. But even with that, I’m in a big old Victorian house and the phone signal doesn’t go through the outside walls, therefore Wi-Fi using Eero 6 units is the only option. I have multiple units all over the house. Without them and WiFi calling, I would never get mobile reception inside the house unless the phone is by the window in any given room.
The UK's 5G rollout has been horrific! I don't know whether it will be good for competition and price but if Vodafone keep to their promise of building out 5GSA then we might get access to better speeds and reliability. I had Three 5G Home Broadband for 2 years and it was terrible! Speeds were up and down like a YoYo, ping were way too high and constantly dropping back to 4G.
Yeah it's definitely not be great so far. That sounds like an absolute nightmare! Fingers crossed this merger means better speeds and reliability like you said 🤞
I think the initial rollout was rushed or at least no where near the level that consumers were promised - what do you think led to it being so bad?
Vodafone and 3 merged in Australia a number of years ago, Vodafone are probably our worst provider here. The 3 name was dropped fairly quickly and with so many of their customers not liking Vodafone they left in droves and went elsewhere, including to providers who were far more expensive.
Oh wow no way 😬 I’d heard about this merger but didn’t realise it went down so poorly! That’s a shame
Did Orange and T-Mobile become EE when 4G was coming out?
merged in 2010 and killed orange and t-mobile brands in 2015. 4g launch was 2012, and they rebranded from Everything Everywhere (2010 merger name) to EE. Sold to BT in 2016.
Yeah! Like the other comment says, 4G launched in 2012 and their merger was key to that 4G rollout/ connectivity.
The merger into EE created so many coverage issues where Orange masts were dropped in favour of T-Mobile and vice versa, leaving so many customers in signal blackspots just weeks after taking out new, or renewing contracts.
Of course, that was then, EE has now been swallowed by BT, which has the largest infrastructure/backhaul in the country.
i find it interesting as an aussie here. that about 15 years ago or so something similar happened with Vodafone AU and 3. or well i think 3 was more so mvno then operator. but 3's business killed and put into Vodafone Australia
Yeah that’s very interesting! I didn’t realise this at first but it’s interesting that the UK business has stayed around for so long.
What was that experience like as an Aussie? Was it a seamless process or not?
@JossHend I was 4 or so I didnt really have a phone didn't even know we had 3 till I saw old signs for recharging prepaid and saw it in a tv show and looked it up on Wikipedia
Ahhhh fair enough mate
The government can’t intervene with the CMA, we’ve seen this with the Activision Blizzard Microsoft merger where Microsoft made direct threats to the UK government. It would’ve only been approved because at least one of them would’ve gone bankrupt, resulting in that loss of competition anyway.
You make a good point - I just don’t think it can be completely ruled out. If that was the case, why hasn’t that been made obvious? Again, I don’t disagree with you, I just don’t think it’s so black and white.
@ Yeah you’re right about CMA not making it obvious, but then again their behaviour has been quite hawkish as of late and I doubt they’d want to be seen as making a decision they don’t fully believe in - they’d much rather approve a merger that is good for competition rather than one that is the lesser of all evils. One look at the debt levels of both companies, lacklustre infrastructure successes, and it’s quite clear that one would’ve ended up buying the other anyway, CMA’s decision was ultimately whether it’d be at liquidation or in a merger. The framing of such decisions is likely just CMA politics and wanting to be seen as the harsh regulator they’ve proven themselves to be over the past few years, rather than any conspiracies. I’d imagine some stuff could be FOIA’d though if you’re curious.
Fair point mate! I didn't think of it in that way
I feel while archaic, I go to uni and have eduroam (wifi everywhere) so I don't use a data plan as much, I don't understand why they decided to pick a price cap of 3 years, why not longer if the consequences could be massive?
Nice! Yeah I’m not sure either. It seems low doesn’t it? Maybe the CMA are hopeful that prices won’t hike suddenly
BT are contacting people on broadband telling them to move to EE.
They will not release people from BT contracts to go elsewhere, but suggest new deals with EE that start at £5/month more. BT claims they are not providing broadband any longer.
That's a bit underhanded.
Oh wow I didn’t know that 😬 very interesting, thanks for sharing that!
haha but the truth is, BT are still providing broadband, they just became a part of EE.
Personally, I cannot wait for the merger to occur, currently I'm under a contract with 3 which I've left it too long to be able to cancel, and the place where I live, 3 is pretty spotty, where indoors it drops to No Service, which I find quite peculiar since I live quite close to the city, and this may show the network inequalities of the UK, and the only provider that gives me a good service is Vodafone, however, they're quite bad in the city and EE/3 work well in, which is where I feel like the merge would benefit me in two fold.
The only thing that has been left me questioning is the price rises that may arise due to this merger since vodafone is quite expensive in terms of SIM deals, and if the networks would be able to handle the load of the multitude of customers during the starting phase of the merger, however, I feel like time would tell.
By the way, great video, I honestly didn't even know when they'd propose to merge since it's quite hidden in certain news articles, and the quality of the video gave me an impression that you had more of an audience or subscribers, and I was also surprised that they've even allowed it to happen at the start, since the Three O2 merger didn't go as planned.
Woah that’s rubbish for you! Fingers crossed this merger will give you all the benefits you need 🤞 like you said, on paper it looks promising but I think time will tell!
Yeah the price rises will be interesting after that 3 year period - they’ll have to remain competitive but they’ll definitely push things as much as they can. I think there will definitely be some teething issues as things get started under the merger but we’ll have to wait and see what those are.
Appreciate the kind words! Trying to bring these stories, that actually affect consumers, to life.
If things go south would you go to another provider? If so, who?
@JossHend If things were to go south, I would go with O2 since EE is oversubscribed in my area and their prices are quite expensive in general.
I also hope if they’d do a price rise after the three years, that it’s a gradual rise and not a huge spike in one night since I feel like that would cause customer complaints.
Anyhow, I feel like there would be some sort of benefit for everyone not limited to just the people who don’t have a great signal.
Also no problem, I wish you the best and preach the things that you’re doing!
That's fair enough mate. I agree about the prices - I think there would be uproar if they hiked prices too quickly. It's an essential service for people and quickly jacking up prices would cause chaos.
Yeah fingers crossed we all get the benefits, that's the ideal scenario anyway. I'm just praying for decent 5G where I live! 😅
Vodafone was once upon a time, long long ago called GEC Racal radio systems... And it was part government owned.
No different to BP, British rail, BT, British gas etc...
Interesting! I didn’t know that. I wonder if we’re gradually heading back in that direction 🤔
as a gen z, this was a really interesting video to watch and everything you said it was really easy to understand so thank you so much! i’ll def be watching more of tour videos, hoping 2025 is gonna be a great year for your channel, you deserve it :) 🎉❤
Ahhh thank you so much! I really appreciate the kind words and support. Thanks for watching 🙌🏼
@@JossHendso welcome :)
In Australia Vodafone and 3 merged many many years ago.
Ahhh nice how did it go? Was it a negative experience for customers?
Gen Z definitely needs this including some Millennials.
How do you think it will benefit them?
Would love this. I have voda and 3 as 3 is better in the area I work and voda is better where I live so the merge is welcomed
Nice mate! Yeah it sounds like you’re in an ideal position here.
When you use the better service in each location, is the other unusable or just not as good?
Controversial opinion, there should absolutely not be several dozen mobile netwoeks, or, they should go the way of openreach and have a single core network that is resold. I shouldn't have go base my network choice off who happens to have the best signal where I'm most active.
That’s a good point mate. It’s not exactly a good customer experience. I wonder if we’ll ever get there!
doesnt sound very different to different to orange & T-monile combining to make EE.
the better option for consumers would be a single physical network in the country rather than every network duplicating the infrastructure of the others.
this way everyone should get much better network coverage across the country, and there could be much more competition with everyone buying from virtual networks all operating on the same network. the only differences between them would be price and customer service quality and the possibility of new virtual networks popping up to compete on price if the existing ones wont.
Fair point mate! Do you think we could see that in the near future?
@@JossHend the best option for consumers combined with real competition on prices is never gonna happen lol. it would threaten their profits too much
Good point 😅 we can dream
I'm in two minds on this - I don't see Voda and Three being the bigger of the networks, it seems that O2 and EE dominate the space, so I'm not sure how much it would impact competition, but as someone who's been using a SMARTY (owned by Three) SIM for a while and rarely finding a place where O2's (much more pricey) service is better, I'm slightly concerned as it's one less reason to keep the great deals that Three offer on their SMARTY brand (I'm paying £8/mo for 50G data), but if service improves, which I'm sure it will if they combine the Three & Voda networks, I don't think I'd have the right to demand that for free
Completely fair point! I agree O2 and EE seem to have more of a market share, it's just on paper that this merger will be larger.
Smarty is a great option but you make a great point about those costs rising. I think there will always be a place for that type of service, as they make up a big share of the market now - Vodafone have Voxi which is similar to Smarty. I think it's sadly just a waiting game at this point.
Better coverage is a win for everyone but they'll definitely try to cover their costs where they can! Hopefully you don't see your monthly costs rise too much.
Would you consider moving to another provider if things got out of hand? Or is it worth paying for the more reliable service in your area?
Virgin Media and O2 merged, and BT and EE merged. Why are Three and Vodafone not allowed? We see significant investments when mergers happen without job loss and improve customer experience, so it’s a win-win.
Completely fair point mate! I was personally more surprised because it just consolidates the market even further. I didn’t expect anymore mergers when there’s already very little competition - but you make some great points 🤝
Do you think we could see even more merging in the future?
Because virgin and BT provided similar but different services.
In that case, we should allow Sainbury's and Asda to merge because Tesco bought Booker.
Because Vodafone is shit
BT didn't compete with EE, Virgin didn't compete with O2, there was no reduction in competition. With Vodafone and Three, there will be a reduction in competition from 4 operators to 3.
UK mobile networks lag behind, too many black spots. There is no one provider that can reliably give you coverage across the country.
Having moved to another part of the UK from London, I’m forced to change provider not because of price. But because I get 0 signal in my new town.
It’s not true competition at the moment because providers have carved up the country.
If you moved to a small town somewhere, you don’t have a choice between the 4 providers. You are limited because there is usually only one, that actually provides good signal.
I look forward to the day when I can actually shop around on PRICE ONLY, without having to worry if the provider actually gives a good signal where I am.
That's a completely fair point! I agree with you. It makes the consumer experience an absolute nightmare and means providers aren't actually striving to make a better product.
Hopefully we all see some improvements with this as we head towards the 2030 5G goals. Fingers crossed for us both mate 🤞
3 years of no price rises is ridiculously low. Should have been 5 years, then after that, another 5 years of prices being allowed to increase by inflation, but minus 1%. So that means 10 years of below inflation increases.
I doubt they would be so keen to merge then!
Very good point! It does seem low doesn't it. Agreed I don't think they would've been anywhere near as keen if those were the rules 😬
@JossHend With all these mega mergers, regulators should impose price restrictions for a decade, at least. If the CEOs don't get to reap the benefits for a decade or more, they will be less keen on anti competitive mergers.
I don't have a problem with mega mergers, but we need to make them less attractive.
Yeah I don't disagree with you, protecting consumers for longer is always good. I think this was made all too easy for them, 3 years is nothing for these businesses. I think regulators have a tricky job of balancing competitiveness, innovation and putting consumers first. Not easy! But this was a miss from the CMA in my opinion.
Oh fcuk! That’s verging on a monopoly. This will be bad for all of us. I thought government was meant to intervene on these things.
Yeah! There will be some benefits but I think it’s a bad move in the long run. Regulators are meant to do their thing but 🤷♂️
Will this affect you much?
Telecom companies merge constantly, as they mostly all use the same infrastructure then lease it out. Virgin Media and O2 merged, and so did BT and EE. Not much will change except for better connectivity for most consumers.
The competition is still there. If Vodafone decide to skyrocket the prices tenfold, then it'll be an easy opportunity for O2, BY, Sky etc to undercut them.
Fair point mate! Personally just surprised that further consolidation of the market was allowed. Does it end here or do we see 3 providers turn into 2? Who knows! All very interesting though
i loved 3. when other network's were giving you like 4gb for £20 (ee, o2 etc.) 3 was banging out £15 pay as you go unlimited data. Now I'm on smarty and still getting £15 a month but they have rolled out a plan for those of us who are on benefits. £12 a month for unlimited data.
Nice mate! I've heard good things about smarty. Those options (vodafone also have voxi) make sense for a lot of consumers. Hopefully there is still a place for them after this merger!
I’ve used vodaphone in the past and I’m currently with 3.
3 has been alright, ish, but the customer service hasn’t been good.
Nothing about vodaphone was redeemable.
I’ve considered jumping ship for a while, and I’m definitely going to now. There’s no chance I’m going to deal with vodaphone again
Woah fair play mate. Who gets your custom going forward do you think?
I've heard a lot of horror stories from 3 customers - mainly all complaining about the customer service. Which is a shame because they used to be decent! Same goes for Vodafone. Maybe after this merger things will improve - we'll see 🤷🏻♂️
BT owns EE (which itself is Orange and T-Mobile merged) and Virgin O2 are already merged companies. Vodafone & Three are kind of correct that they can't compete against these merged behemoths. Vodafone would do well to rebrand in the merger, they are not a well-liked company
Fair point mate! I wonder what they’ll choose to do
If Vodafone rebrands they'll just do what Hermes did to rebrand to Evri.
Three is terrible for signal and customer service but they’re cheap and their sub company, Smarty is even cheaper so I stick with them. The industry has changed to the point calls and texts are now unlimited as standard and it’s arguing about how much they charge for a block of data. I assume Starlink will shake this all up again in time.
Yeah I’ve heard some horror stories about that! Smarty seem great though.
That’s a great point maybe I could spoken about that or I will in future videos. Starlink and Apples emergency SOS service could shake things up if the expand their offering.
Would you consider switching to this merged company if smarty goes away? Or would you look elsewhere?
Uhh, EE is already the result of a merger as is O2 Virgin 😅
EE merged with BT not Virgin Media 02 - I mention this later in the video.
Great content. Can’t wait for this merger
Thanks for watching! Appreciate it.
It’ll certainly be interesting! Will you benefit from it personally?
yeah as a Vodafone customer I hope to see some improvement signal wise and speed wise.
Yeah nice mate! I think it’ll definitely be coming your way. Fingers crossed for some decent 5G!
3 if you want cheap, ee if you want fast.
Fair enough! I think it's pretty unique for everyone depending on your location. Some people swear by 3, others hate it.
Shame on the CMA
😬😬
5G, you must be joking. I don't get it in a town or city centre. I had it once and it was no faster. I got 4G+ and it's rubbish.
Yeah 😬😬 he’s been pretty shocking recently. Hopefully we all see some of the improvements over the coming years!
wtf 3 still exists?
3 here in Australia closed in 2011
Woah no way! I didn't realise that. Very much still a thing currently in the UK... for now 😬
Do you guys have any similar situations to this in Australia?
@@JossHend
We had TPG and Vodafone merger in 2020
and now TPG want a sale of its enterprise, government, and wholesale fixed business and fibre network assets to a company called Vocus for $2.6b pounds. This is subject to our Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) so that Vocus wont have the monopoly once they're allowed to buy it, its subject to stakeholder feedback on its potential impact on market competition. We also just had our 3G network shut down putting thousands of people in hot water when they're phones just bricked themselves, The telecom companies just said " tough shit , go buy another phone, bye "
Oh wow 😳 that’s nuts mate. Which way does it seem things will go?
Also to just pull the 3G coverage like that is absolutely insane, customers must’ve been fuming. It would be absolute chaos in the UK if that happened.
I wasn’t aware of any of that thanks for sharing.
@@JossHend Seems like TH-cam doesn't want to show the comment you replied to so I hope I'm not repeating. 3 used to exist in Australia along with Vodafone but around 2009 Vodafone announced the joint venture with 3 creating Vodafone Hutchinson Australia now named TPG Telecom after they merged with TPG. Now the Vodafone brand along with some others still exist but are under TPG as a parent company. Interesting to get some idea of how things might look but the Australian mobile network market is quite different to us with many rural areas which I imagine to be a lot harder to cover being much bigger land mass. Their Wikipedia and Vodafone newsroom has some more details on how things went as they merged.
Damn that’s odd. Appreciate it mate!
These mergers always blow my mind.
Mc and mac are the exact same when pronouced mc is a shotern version of mac and is pronouced as mac. I wish i had known about this before moving to 3 from vodafone...
Three: Network is crap but customer service is good
Vodafone: Network is good but Customer Service is dogshite
O2: Great network and Customer Service.
After Virgin merger: O2 customer service is Dogshite, but service is lacking greatly.
Seems like no one can maintain a balance of both then! Feel very lucky as I’ve never personally had any major issues but I’ve heard a lot of customer service horror stories 😬
@@JossHend but in truth it also means that the market share would get somewhat narrow. O2/Virgin, EE/BT, 3/Vodafone: but a whole bunch of MVNO's on all networks. I believe a earlier comment stated that soon these networks would simply be brands or some kind of market place.
That is a highly likely possibility. But also it's hard for anyone to rival these major networks as well as unless you have billions£ in the bank to afford it.
You should probs do a video on MVNOs and look into how someone starts one up, as well as how they work. That gives an inside to how larger the mobile network space is as every network operator (there's only three of them), have at least 1 MVNO (VOX, GiffGaff, ID Mobile). But also what sub count for you to operate.
The goal of company bosses is to make as much money as they can for shareholders and boost the price of their share options, not to serve the customers. This won't end well. Without enforceable commitments to guarantee certain investments these mergers don't end well for consumers.
And what is this business of raising prices a certain level above the inflation rate the government allows them every year? So they raise the price which in turn raises the rate of inflation, then they get to raise the prices next year again through inflation they themselves create. What a joke!!
Fair points mate! What commitments do you think need to be enforced on these companies?
I would rather have vodafone merge with ee, then three to merge with o2/virgin.
purely because virgin is absolute shiet, and inhereting their infrastructure would make them try to be better for once lol
Haha fair enough! That would've been an interesting one
The poors always lose.
It definitely feels like consumers are going to get shafted in all this. What do you think should be done to protect consumers?
@JossHend The issue is that the milk as already been spilt, multiple times, with mergers of other networks such as EE and Virgin/O2. One way is to stop any further mergers and encourage break ups by giving a competitive edge to smaller networks. I don't want to go down the government subsidiary route either (see what happened with EVs).
Fair point mate! I guess we’ll have to wait and see 😬
👏
Cheers mate!
agenda 2030.
Do you think it’s a good or bad idea?
"HURR MURR EVERYUTHING IS A CONSPIRACEE" go visit your nearest pysch ward
@@JossHend it's about control
@@schtormm smart grids, tracking and 15 min cities are no conspiracy its written down on their agenda. keir starmer is a product of the WEF young leaders program. ALL OF THIS IS PROVEN FACT
@ numbskull
I'm with 3 PAYG. I regularly get a very fast roughly 320Mbps download and 80Mbps upload 5G speeds. This is inside my flat.
Outside the fastest 5G I've ever got is 1052Gbps download and 178Mbps upload!
Hopefully after the merger my 5G speeds remain lol. Or even get quicker.
Woah that’s impressive! I’ve heard of a lot of bad experiences with 5G, so it’s nice to know someone is getting good results 😅 fingers crossed for you bud.
Would you consider moving provider if the speeds changed?
1052 Gbps, woah that is faster than Nasa, BT, Google, Meta combined lol.
but yea you got very lucky with 5G with your 1Gbps connection over mobile data.
Another reason to stay away from Three
Fair enough! They haven’t got the best reputation these days 😬 who would you go with instead?
I've always found Vodafone to be complete dogshit out side of town and city centres 3 and O2 are fine, EE are really good.
Fair enough. Hopefully with this merger you see some better coverage!
@ I’m using EE
Ahhh okay fair enough