Before you hate, I've slept in the MSS bivy in absolute downpours and snow and was fine. And mine was issued in 2003. These days, if you're going to call something "waterproof," then I'm going to test it that way.
@@Bayers2020 MSS is the Modular Sleep System, US Mil issued sleep kit. The bivvy is the outer portion of the system made to try and keep your sleeping kit dry while using it (GORETEX i believe). I would imagine surplus stores will be your best bet getting one. Cheers
On another video I have seen of this Snugpak it is reccomended to put your pack at the feet end which raises the height and in turn allowing otherwise collected rainwater to run off the bivy.
Mine failed like yours and I did contact Snugpak. After a few emails and sending the lot number and purchase info they sent me a new one AND one of their Sasquatch winter parkas. The new one did not leak, so yours could have been from the same detective batch mine was from. Could be something to check out. Love the channel and agenda free vids brother ~ Chesapeake
I was almost going to buy it, but I changed my mind after watching the clip. Thanks again for making the honesty review. One of campers from South Korea.
I have one that I used in a 14 day mission readiness exercise at White Sands New Mexico that worked extremely well. It rained one night from about 2100 to 0500. I'm talking beat down rain with high winds and I was dry and snoring while everyone else was trying to fight to survive. Sleeping on tables in the TOC. Oh well, I guess I got a good batch.
Yeah it seems that snugpak qc has gone down quite a bit. I've heard similar stories from wet season sf selections but also a few where the same model just failed miserably I personally have never had an issue with the dutch surplus, and I'm talking the shitty spanish-made one, not corinthia. I do, however, put a poncho over the zipper area to make it easier to enter and exit during rain
Great review Randall. I usually use a ground cloth & a tarp with mine. But unbiased real world opinions are what is truly needed in order for these companies improve their products. Rock on!
This is an awesome channel! I see a lot of untested, impression-recommendations, and I was about to buy this bivy. Keep up the good work and thank you! You're great!
Great video. I would say based on the comments of this video we need to see the Snugpak Ionosphere, sounds like people like it a lot more and it is designed better. I even have it in one of my amazon lists. It seams like it would pair with the MSS and the rest of the US GI sleep gear (Ranger Roll/Ranger Taco and or ECWCS) better. I would think it would be a good in between between the ICS and the MSS bivy by itself, although, I would still want to have the MSS bivy with me, never leave home without it, lol.
Before you feel that I hate, get this. Stuff your bag and gear at your feet (so you won’t create a pool like you did) it will also help with condensation. Second, if you use a tarp, and or a Bivvi bag for your sleeping bag - you’ll be just fine. I promise. Thirdly, water always find a way through with time, simple - even through your mss stuff.
This is exactly why I don't understand bivvy "tents". I'm a big fan of bivvy bags since they block windchill and protect your sleeping bag especially when sleeping in the dirt, snow or just under a tarp. You also don't breathe moisture inside of them like you would with any of these bivvy tents. Good test.
I got the Snugpak Stratosphere, and used it for the first time in Missouri last month. It wasn't raining, but it was windy AF. I gathered up a bunch of wet leaves and covered up the non zippered side, and my feet area. In the morning my sleeping bag, and feet were wet just from the wet leaves... I'll definitely keep the bivy for use in the dry months, but I'm looking for a different one for fall, winter and wet spring seasons. I'm 6'7" and could fit inside it comfortably with my rifle. It's hard to say, but I still think it's worth it for the summer month's.
Great test there 👌 But.. I'd still consider buying and using it as I almost always carry a tarp so would just use the tarp as a roof if there was some serious rain coming in. I think these hooped bivis are great in fair weather conditions but in rain they are best used as wind/bug protection.
I've tried several. I always revert back to my MSS and a Marine Corps tarp. A poncho is just as good. We have gotten four of us with our heads and torsos under at all four points of the tarp and from our waist and legs out in our MSS. Put a center stick about 18 inches in the center and stake down the corners. Or just use a ruck in the center. Quick eazy set up and take down. Been in some heavy rains. Just fine. Sometimes I get a little wet, but that part of it.
I lived in Schweinfurt. The coldest I have ever been, It started out at about 70 degrees, so I only had on my tee shirt . Front came through, it dropped to about 15 degrees and the wind was blowing between the mountains. IT took about 45 min for that to happen. I had to stop and buy a coat. I feel you on German Weather.
When I was looking for a hooped bivi, I gave the Stratosphere a pass. The alternatives I have are the the Rab Ascent (use with trekking pole), bomb proof, breathable, used in hell on earth weather for years. And the Rab Unishelter, hooped bivi (same, only hooped!), has always brought the sun so can't talk about wet weather in that.
I've had a couple of bivy sacks. Even the eVent fabric, which is supposed to be more breathable than Gore-Tex, doesn't breathe enough, and I woke up damp from my own body's vapor. Tarp and bivy are ok, tent is better, hammock and tarp can't be beat. Thanks! 👍
I was wondering how many season is this bivy tent ???? meaning can i use this in the early winter months ??? I"m talking 1 to 3 maybe 4 inches of fresh powder ?? i was given one of theses BRAND NEW in the box n I was wondering what can i do with it n what i can"t , I stop when theres 5to6 inches of fresh powder or 10 dagrees out !
I’ve had two of these, one of them failed and I sent it back and got a new one. New one has seemed okay but have been hesitant to put into full use before I test it more.
Personally, I love my Ionosphere, but there are a few things that I would do to any tent to improve your chances of a good nights sleep. 1. Always put down some sort of plastic ground cloth to protect your tent from the dew and dirt. Personally, I like the German army ripstop ground covers but a cheap window covering from 3M also works well. 2. Hit up every new tent with camp dry and seam seal before first use and hit it again every couple years there after. Even goretex will get you soaked if it is completely submersed in water.
Absolutely, and the ionosphere's shape allows rain not to pool and sit on it. My issue is that they market and price the stratosphere as being waterproof right out of the box.
The difference is that the Ionosphere has a “water resistant” rain fly, whereas the stratosphere does not. A cursory search has the stratosphere being 20 bucks cheaper than the ionosphere, so other than weight, I do not see the value saved. 2.5 pounds vs. 3.34 pounds is significant but I will still hold on to my Ionosphere. Another thing is that I as a 5’11” guy, I can pull my entire oversized Alice type pack into the tent and still have plenty of room to sleep. I do not see that possible with the stratosphere.
I'm not overly surprised. Snugpak quality has gone way downhill in the past couple of years. Quality from a big company like that should be pri 1. Interesting that you pointed out the zipper quality. The zipper on my Elite 3 sleeping bag failed within 1 1/2 year of usage. Snugpak definitely needs to use a more robust zipper. Hopefully they replace your Stratosphere!
Never liked to sleep in bivy bags unless I’m up high in the mountains getting caught in bad weather and in that case I’d use one without poles. However, as long as I was using a bivy I preferred the Defcon5 ( Italian military and way better). It was almost as good as my Carinthia German Army bivy. Nowadays my 2p backpacking tents weigh less than my bivy but offer so much more comfort and protection while out hiking. Cheers from Heidelberg
Nice honest review snugpak need to up there game. I'm with you on there zips .I have the special forces bag zip has failed twice. Going to change the zip .I'm going to use the zip of a old British jungle bag .we used to say in the army it's not squadie proof. Jonah from Scotland 😀👍
the main points of failure are with sleeping on the ground and using something for insulation that IS effected by its getting wet. The '"cut leaf" type of camo nets and the full body bugnet suits that I use are not affected . The polypro longjohns and wiggys net longjohns are not, either. I can wear the shelter/sleep element as clothing, assembled as makes sense to me at the time. If I took the trouble to put zippers into the PEVA oval and the third drum liner, I'd not have to bother with the tape. That just now occurred to me. I'll have to try it. However, our cold weather here is gone for the next 8 months.
You should send it back with your video so they know the flaws of their products. If they dont refund you they might send another one who as passed their quality control. You should definitely try. Luke from TOGR did it with his Litefigther catamount 2 tent and it did well for him.
bivy tents like this also cause alot of condensation on the inside, then if its raining outside and you must keep it closed, your gonna have a bad time. thanks for the no bs review!!
Beside it's not very breathable and over 2 pounds it's ok. I put my 60 (50 percent empty)Liter backpack on the end of the bivi that rise's the food area and the water runs down and keeps this area dry and I feel also a better airflow. But always keep my MSS bivi bag inside when the weather is changing. Nothing beats the MSS bivi!!
I got a defcon 5 bivy, 5000mm watercolumn too, whole thing is 75D and its triple lined, inside its reflective, you can enter from the side exactly like that one, or from the top or from the back. Zippers are way better too. And yeah its a millitary bag, if im not mistaken its made for the italian army. The bivy you are showing looks like a lighter and cheaper version of it
Funny thing is the defcon 5 is actually cheaper! Got a defcon bivvy recently and am impressed with the build quality. Not sure about the zips at the back though, they look like they will let rain in.
@@swirlathon2k Yeah its a hell of allot cheaper, and that for the quality and not being heavy at all.. Haven't had any issues with rain at all so far, even in a storm with a huge downpoor. before using it I tested it in autumn and left it out for 2 weeks, here it rains 4-5 days a week in autumn. No water issues what so ever. Only I did notice in warmer days a bit of humidity when I slept in it. Defo not much but thats condensation from my transpiration and breathing. Its quite well ventilated. But of you transpire allot then a bivvy wouldnt be a good choice anyways I think. To make sure just add your feet into the direction of the wind, which is a small disadvantage especially when you are constricted on hilly terrain. I am not sure but I think any zips catching rain, the rain would just trickle down to the bottom. I might actually go and test that out. I bought one for my wife too, she is loving it
@@Strange-Viking Thanks for the response. Good to know that it holds up to the weather. I have a multi day hill hike planned so it's reassuring. Condensation is always an issue with bivvy bags. I have a Dutch army hooped bivvy and it has the same issue, despite having a really high end goretex style fabric. Planning on getting rid of the Dutch one and just using the defcon.
I bought this while I was stationed in Alaska with hopes it would solve the stuffy feeling of the mss bivy. I had the same problem of water soaking through and waking up to find my sleeping bag and feet soaked. It's an awesome bivy if you just want some relief from bugs but as far as water gose it doesn't keep it out.
I would have thought that it would be like their Ionosphere which has poles on the foot end, that's a stupid design on the Stratosphere having no support on the foot end. No wonder it leaked like hell. Like you said, I don't see how you can get into that when the weather is crappy and not get everything wet on the inside. Too confining also and doesn't look like any room for your pack either. Thanks for the video Randall. 👍
I think it would benefit from being hooped at the bottom too. But water coming in at the top is a concern. Not sure if you've heard of the company OEX? But their cheaper Bivi similar to this one is meant to be great.
@@GruntProof if not, I’ll mail mine to you. Mail it back when you’re done. I’m prepping for a hunt till September so doubtful I’ll be using it anytime soon
Hit it with some silicone spray or any type of weatherseal tent aerosol and call it good. I have both strato and ionosphere and sprayed them with Thompsons, never had an issue. Slept in MANY rainy night in PNW.
The lies of bivys are many, hear is my top 3: 1 NO bivy is 100% water proof in a long soaking rain, you must have a tarp over it. 2 condensation is why you plan only 1 night max in a bivy. 2 nights or more only!! if you can dry it out really well in the day. 3 don't even think of it in hot or muggy weather with a horrible bugs, yes there are worse things than death. Experience is the best teacher! Hope this helps some one. Ps. Loved the video.
Good point. I've lived in mine for about 23 days in a rough winter. The MSS holds up great, but you'll be wet from climbing in and out of it. I definitely wouldn't use a bivy only of I had the choice. Thanks
I own this! I live in Seattle and use it in the rain ALL THE TIME!!! Never have I had it leak! NEVER the story with snugpak and why the quality went down temporarily was due to shifting manufacturers from the UK to china. In intermittent first year to dial their qc products left production that were sht. Once they dialed in at the verge of the negative publicity they got back on track. Their higher end items are still manufactured in the UK as well , all the high end bivy sacks are made in the UK. Anyway, I think you make great reviews and have a great Channel but I don’t think you highlighted this product in a real world situation. With a human inside , especially at the feet also with the material stretched out and staked water wouldn’t sit that way. There is NO MATERIAL whiCh would pass that situation, your mss bivy which I also own and use is a heavy gortex material and isn’t designed to be a bowl for water and not penetrate! As a user I wanted to defend this product . If it was sht I’d be the first to jump on the bandwagon and agree but that’s not the case.
I’ve woken up in failed bivy tents. Not fun. Like a suffocating wet nylon blanket. Went to the mss as a result. Gonna try a litefighter this summer, hopes its an improvement, but looks very fragile.
From what I can tell these “lightweight” bivvy tents are hit or miss, if you want to go the bivvy route just get a normal one and pair it with a tarp, otherwise a lightweight 1 man tent packs down to about the same size and gives you all the benefits of air flow and space, I’d only take one of these if I needed to be low profile and pack up quick which if we’re being honest most of us don’t need to.
You just can't beat a tarp, these gimmicky bivvy tents are fine in theory but as you ably illustrated, how do you get in there and keep it dry in the rain? Bring a tarp? Okay then why not just bring a tarp and a regular bivvy? At least with a regular bivvy (at least the ones we get here) you can stick your pack into it, twist the end up and use it to float your pack. I seriously doubt this thing could do that. Another excellent video, keep them coming!
Got mine last night. It's a little tight with even my smallest sleeping pad inside. If you're a big guy like me, I suggest putting your sleeping pad under the bivy. I'll keep it around for an emergency, but it's not something I will use regularly. For the price, they could afford to make it a little bigger, with thicker material and better zippers. 6/10
I have slept in some proper heavy rain in the UK for multiple days and never had this problem. I don’t think just leaving it outside the in the rain the the seams not on without even being in it is a proper test.
There's no reason to buy a Bivy system when the MSS bivy exists. I've woken up floating in one. I was in Hawwai so obviously our mileage varied. We hardly ever used the sleep system except for bay style lodging like Kuwait or we had Kwanset? (IDK how to speel it) Huts on PTA on the Big Island. We normally just carried a poncho and a woobie, but we had other things we did like remove all the charcoal for our chemsuit jacket to usd it like a field sweatshirt. We never really had an issue with cold unless we were wet. So nobody carried the system, with the exception of the bivy because it could literally save your life. Hypothermia could happen just as quick as heat exhaustion in the Kahukus. We were light in Hawaii. Pounds equaled pain so the rest of the system was useless. Honestly, I think that the only time my entire Sleep system was together in my ruck was for the packing list for EIB. Obviously, the army taught me to be homeless their way, but I'm moving to a hammock system just for the overall comfort to weight ratio.
@606 10th street that sucks. I’m an 11b so I was state sponsored homeless. I know it’s not really funny but honestly I’ve slept in hand dug tunnels in the ground. Old ones lose their coating. If you get a bottle of scotch guard, you can spray the bag and it’ll water repellant back up.
@606 10th street I’m moving to hammock for a lot of my camping. I’m just working on my Michigan winter portion of it now. But I should be in right around the same weight as the MSS once complete and that includes the overhead shelter. I think once you add a little comfort into the mix, it starts to out pace the MSS. You only wanna lay on the ground but for so long.
Well for a start this bivvy is no harder than any other bivvy to get into when it’s raining as they all need extra shelter when the weather is inclement.secondly maybe you should do the test again and fill the bivvy out with something so the water has more chance to run off. It is almost like you wanted the bag to fail.
@@GruntProof you TOTALLY missed my point 😂 the point I made was that you never slept in the stratosphere it was left all flat so the water could lie on it.do the test again and fill the stratosphere out so it’s like someone is actually inside and see what happens then 😂 you think people are hating on you but you are hating on this product for no good reason.test it fairly.
@@GruntProof well I can’t argue with that and you are right.is it possible the water ingressed through the front vent because of the driven rain?the wind seemed to be blowing in just the right direction for that to be a possibility.I’ve been watching a few reviews and I haven’t seen one end this badly for the stratosphere.
I slept in the bag in the rain and was fine, although it is necessary to put all the pegs in the ground so you can create an surface that will let the water slide and not pool, material is water resistant, that means it can ha dle the pouring but it cant handle the pooling, if you let water pool you will be fked. I slept in warm temperatures in my summer sleeping bag without any mat, and i woke up feeling pretty cold but dry, but then again, these were definitly no Monsoon pours mind you.
From the comments it seems like the poor waterproofness is due to a quality control issue with some users reporting very good and others have the same bad water seep throuh problems. You would think a 180+ eur bivy tent would not suffer these types of problems. I hope snugpack can be transparent about this issue and inform the buyers whether their product is defective or not when they purchase it e.g. a simple "* quality controlled waterproof tested" Or just own up to the problem and recall the bad batches
Considering the price of Snugpak stuff, I would say that reviewing Highlander or Mil-tec material would have more sense, at least those brands are cheaper.
leaving somthing in the rain to test how waterproof it is is fine but owning a Snugpak Stratosphere Bivy Tent i find condensation on the inside when it is slightly cold a major problem. [cold wet clammy].
Disappointing to see products from companies like Snugpak fail. You'd expect that from Walmart, Target or cheap products off of Amazon. Some of these companies are just riding off of their reputation and have slacked off on producing good gear.
snugpack is a great product. Sometimes people just want to bully a company to make themselves look like they know something when they don't. Don't listen to this guy. Snugpak is a great company and they have excellent customer service.
Bad test, you said yourself it's designed to have someone inside with a sleeping pad and a sleeping bag, this would raise the height and allow water to bead off.
@@GruntProof that's a guess, for a test to be accurate you would need to "test" your theory. Plenty of videos out there of people using this with zero issues. So either you have a defective product or it was never designed to be sat out in the rain empty.
you have a point but if I'm going to pay $175 for a "bivy" or tent, that thing better be able to handle rain, no matter how it's used. And this test was even in light rain.
I think it was somewhere around 2016-2018 they started to make a lot of their products in China to reduce manufacturing costs. Apparently some profits are still made in the UK but it’s unclear which are made their and which are now only designated in the UK. I have heard the older UK made stuff was much better quality. As you tested the quality is no longer their. Keep up the awesome videos.
Before you hate, I've slept in the MSS bivy in absolute downpours and snow and was fine. And mine was issued in 2003. These days, if you're going to call something "waterproof," then I'm going to test it that way.
So what?
What’s a mss bivy and where can I buy it bro?
@@Bayers2020 MSS is the Modular Sleep System, US Mil issued sleep kit. The bivvy is the outer portion of the system made to try and keep your sleeping kit dry while using it (GORETEX i believe). I would imagine surplus stores will be your best bet getting one. Cheers
Love your vids by the way, very bullet proof testing, straight amnd to the point 👍👍
It's 'Bivvy' mate. ❤ from 🇬🇧
😄
On another video I have seen of this Snugpak it is reccomended to put your pack at the feet end which raises the height and in turn allowing otherwise collected rainwater to run off the bivy.
Mine failed like yours and I did contact Snugpak. After a few emails and sending the lot number and purchase info they sent me a new one AND one of their Sasquatch winter parkas. The new one did not leak, so yours could have been from the same detective batch mine was from. Could be something to check out. Love the channel and agenda free vids brother ~ Chesapeake
@@ChesapeakeHammockandOutdoors sounds like they were good on the customer service
I was almost going to buy it, but I changed my mind after watching the clip. Thanks again for making the honesty review. One of campers from South Korea.
Buy one. Don't listen to this guy.
@@karolynrice6267 I prefer bivvi bags without water inside, but thanks ... 😀
Nice one. It's good to know this stuff. Thanks for taking the time and cost to do this 👍
Awesome video! Was looking at this for more lax field exercises but now no way!
I have one that I used in a 14 day mission readiness exercise at White Sands New Mexico that worked extremely well. It rained one night from about 2100 to 0500. I'm talking beat down rain with high winds and I was dry and snoring while everyone else was trying to fight to survive. Sleeping on tables in the TOC. Oh well, I guess I got a good batch.
Good to hear!
Yeah it seems that snugpak qc has gone down quite a bit. I've heard similar stories from wet season sf selections but also a few where the same model just failed miserably
I personally have never had an issue with the dutch surplus, and I'm talking the shitty spanish-made one, not corinthia. I do, however, put a poncho over the zipper area to make it easier to enter and exit during rain
Thanks for testing this bivy, you do a great job putting stuff to the test!
Thanks!
Great review Randall. I usually use a ground cloth & a tarp with mine. But unbiased real world opinions are what is truly needed in order for these companies improve their products. Rock on!
Thanks!
what is the point of bivi if you have tarp?
Get hold of a Dutch military hooped bivi bag. Heavy but bomb proof.
Yep, that's what I have and as I'm not so tall as your average Dutch dude also have enough space for my pack in the bottom, or at least some gear. :)
This is an awesome channel! I see a lot of untested, impression-recommendations, and I was about to buy this bivy. Keep up the good work and thank you! You're great!
👊
Put your rucksack in the bottom to hold it up. There is still plenty of room to fit even a tall person.
I’d really love to see a video over the snugpak scorpion 2 tent.
Great video. I would say based on the comments of this video we need to see the Snugpak Ionosphere, sounds like people like it a lot more and it is designed better. I even have it in one of my amazon lists. It seams like it would pair with the MSS and the rest of the US GI sleep gear (Ranger Roll/Ranger Taco and or ECWCS) better. I would think it would be a good in between between the ICS and the MSS bivy by itself, although, I would still want to have the MSS bivy with me, never leave home without it, lol.
Before you feel that I hate, get this. Stuff your bag and gear at your feet (so you won’t create a pool like you did) it will also help with condensation. Second, if you use a tarp, and or a Bivvi bag for your sleeping bag - you’ll be just fine. I promise. Thirdly, water always find a way through with time, simple - even through your mss stuff.
This is exactly why I don't understand bivvy "tents". I'm a big fan of bivvy bags since they block windchill and protect your sleeping bag especially when sleeping in the dirt, snow or just under a tarp. You also don't breathe moisture inside of them like you would with any of these bivvy tents. Good test.
Thanks!
I got the Snugpak Stratosphere, and used it for the first time in Missouri last month. It wasn't raining, but it was windy AF. I gathered up a bunch of wet leaves and covered up the non zippered side, and my feet area. In the morning my sleeping bag, and feet were wet just from the wet leaves...
I'll definitely keep the bivy for use in the dry months, but I'm looking for a different one for fall, winter and wet spring seasons.
I'm 6'7" and could fit inside it comfortably with my rifle. It's hard to say, but I still think it's worth it for the summer month's.
Great test there 👌
But.. I'd still consider buying and using it as I almost always carry a tarp so would just use the tarp as a roof if there was some serious rain coming in.
I think these hooped bivis are great in fair weather conditions but in rain they are best used as wind/bug protection.
I've tried several. I always revert back to my MSS and a Marine Corps tarp. A poncho is just as good. We have gotten four of us with our heads and torsos under at all four points of the tarp and from our waist and legs out in our MSS. Put a center stick about 18 inches in the center and stake down the corners. Or just use a ruck in the center. Quick eazy set up and take down. Been in some heavy rains. Just fine. Sometimes I get a little wet, but that part of it.
I lived in Schweinfurt. The coldest I have ever been, It started out at about 70 degrees, so I only had on my tee shirt . Front came through, it dropped to about 15 degrees and the wind was blowing between the mountains. IT took about 45 min for that to happen. I had to stop and buy a coat. I feel you on German Weather.
When I was looking for a hooped bivi, I gave the Stratosphere a pass. The alternatives I have are the the Rab Ascent (use with trekking pole), bomb proof, breathable, used in hell on earth weather for years. And the Rab Unishelter, hooped bivi (same, only hooped!), has always brought the sun so can't talk about wet weather in that.
Cool thanks for the tips! I'll try one of them
I've had a couple of bivy sacks. Even the eVent fabric, which is supposed to be more breathable than Gore-Tex, doesn't breathe enough, and I woke up damp from my own body's vapor. Tarp and bivy are ok, tent is better, hammock and tarp can't be beat. Thanks! 👍
I was wondering how many season is this bivy tent ???? meaning can i use this in the early winter months ??? I"m talking 1 to 3 maybe 4 inches of fresh powder ?? i was given one of theses BRAND NEW in the box n I was wondering what can i do with it n what i can"t , I stop when theres 5to6 inches of fresh powder or 10 dagrees out !
I’ve had two of these, one of them failed and I sent it back and got a new one. New one has seemed okay but have been hesitant to put into full use before I test it more.
Honest review! That's what the world needs! Thank you!
Great review! Thanks.
Personally, I love my Ionosphere, but there are a few things that I would do to any tent to improve your chances of a good nights sleep. 1. Always put down some sort of plastic ground cloth to protect your tent from the dew and dirt. Personally, I like the German army ripstop ground covers but a cheap window covering from 3M also works well. 2. Hit up every new tent with camp dry and seam seal before first use and hit it again every couple years there after. Even goretex will get you soaked if it is completely submersed in water.
Absolutely, and the ionosphere's shape allows rain not to pool and sit on it. My issue is that they market and price the stratosphere as being waterproof right out of the box.
The difference is that the Ionosphere has a “water resistant” rain fly, whereas the stratosphere does not. A cursory search has the stratosphere being 20 bucks cheaper than the ionosphere, so other than weight, I do not see the value saved. 2.5 pounds vs. 3.34 pounds is significant but I will still hold on to my Ionosphere. Another thing is that I as a 5’11” guy, I can pull my entire oversized Alice type pack into the tent and still have plenty of room to sleep. I do not see that possible with the stratosphere.
P.S. the other difference between the two is another pole section in the foot box area. This, of course, settles the whole rain pooling issue.
Right. I've had pools of water on my MSS bivy plenty of times and never had that issue
I purchased the Snugpack Ionosphere which has a very good rain fly and side entry. Good review.
but it needs a gazillion of tent pegs... :-(
Thanks for the review
I'm not overly surprised. Snugpak quality has gone way downhill in the past couple of years. Quality from a big company like that should be pri 1. Interesting that you pointed out the zipper quality. The zipper on my Elite 3 sleeping bag failed within 1 1/2 year of usage. Snugpak definitely needs to use a more robust zipper. Hopefully they replace your Stratosphere!
Thanks for the info, I was thinking about getting one of those next week. I’ll rethink that now.
Yeah I've never been a bivy only guy, but since this isn't even waterproof I definitely don't see the point in it
Get one. it's a great product and bivvy. This guy is nonsense.
Never liked to sleep in bivy bags unless I’m up high in the mountains getting caught in bad weather and in that case I’d use one without poles. However, as long as I was using a bivy I preferred the Defcon5 ( Italian military and way better). It was almost as good as my Carinthia German Army bivy. Nowadays my 2p backpacking tents weigh less than my bivy but offer so much more comfort and protection while out hiking.
Cheers from Heidelberg
I'll have to try one of those. Danke!
Excellent testing !
Thanks!
Put your backpack in feet zone, that helps
Nice honest review snugpak need to up there game. I'm with you on there zips .I have the special forces bag zip has failed twice. Going to change the zip .I'm going to use the zip of a old British jungle bag .we used to say in the army it's not squadie proof. Jonah from Scotland 😀👍
I know, the MSS emergency style zippers that are massive and don't get caught up have been around since the 90s 🤷🏼♂️
Have you tried out the big Agnes three wire bivy they have listed under the mountaineering section of shelters?
Have not
That has always been my ?. How do enter exit w/o a tarp
Effective Test Randell 👍🇺🇸
the main points of failure are with sleeping on the ground and using something for insulation that IS effected by its getting wet. The '"cut leaf" type of camo nets and the full body bugnet suits that I use are not affected . The polypro longjohns and wiggys net longjohns are not, either. I can wear the shelter/sleep element as clothing, assembled as makes sense to me at the time. If I took the trouble to put zippers into the PEVA oval and the third drum liner, I'd not have to bother with the tape. That just now occurred to me. I'll have to try it. However, our cold weather here is gone for the next 8 months.
Great review. Can you use spray on waterproofing?
Yes
Another Awesome Video!
Thanks!
You should send it back with your video so they know the flaws of their products. If they dont refund you they might send another one who as passed their quality control. You should definitely try. Luke from TOGR did it with his Litefigther catamount 2 tent and it did well for him.
Good idea. I'll keep you guys posted on how that process goes. TOGR rocks!
If thay stand behind there products, That is proof of a reality good company.
Ever try the Gatewood Cape?
At 6'5" I'm way to tall for it. Always wanted one.
Great video mate I was going to buy one of theses but I decided to go with the Dutch army hooped big a brilliant bivvy bag in my eyes very stealthy
Thanks!
bivy tents like this also cause alot of condensation on the inside, then if its raining outside and you must keep it closed, your gonna have a bad time. thanks for the no bs review!!
Wow, i never had that problem with mine. I slept out in thunder storms multiple times in this thing...weird
Interesting. Bad batch?
Get in it to test it!😁 condensation ? Hard to test from outside . But other channels shows it in action! . Keep making videos!👌👌👌
Beside it's not very breathable and over 2 pounds it's ok. I put my 60 (50 percent empty)Liter backpack on the end of the bivi that rise's the food area and the water runs down and keeps this area dry and I feel also a better airflow. But always keep my MSS bivi bag inside when the weather is changing. Nothing beats the MSS bivi!!
Thank you for an honest review.
:) it's very refreshing to see the truth in a sea of lies.
I only use bivy tents in stealth camping, any other time I’m more than happy to lug the extra weight for a larger tent
I got a defcon 5 bivy, 5000mm watercolumn too, whole thing is 75D and its triple lined, inside its reflective, you can enter from the side exactly like that one, or from the top or from the back.
Zippers are way better too. And yeah its a millitary bag, if im not mistaken its made for the italian army.
The bivy you are showing looks like a lighter and cheaper version of it
Funny thing is the defcon 5 is actually cheaper!
Got a defcon bivvy recently and am impressed with the build quality. Not sure about the zips at the back though, they look like they will let rain in.
@@swirlathon2k Yeah its a hell of allot cheaper, and that for the quality and not being heavy at all..
Haven't had any issues with rain at all so far, even in a storm with a huge downpoor. before using it I tested it in autumn and left it out for 2 weeks, here it rains 4-5 days a week in autumn. No water issues what so ever.
Only I did notice in warmer days a bit of humidity when I slept in it. Defo not much but thats condensation from my transpiration and breathing. Its quite well ventilated. But of you transpire allot then a bivvy wouldnt be a good choice anyways I think.
To make sure just add your feet into the direction of the wind, which is a small disadvantage especially when you are constricted on hilly terrain. I am not sure but I think any zips catching rain, the rain would just trickle down to the bottom.
I might actually go and test that out.
I bought one for my wife too, she is loving it
@@Strange-Viking Thanks for the response.
Good to know that it holds up to the weather. I have a multi day hill hike planned so it's reassuring.
Condensation is always an issue with bivvy bags. I have a Dutch army hooped bivvy and it has the same issue, despite having a really high end goretex style fabric.
Planning on getting rid of the Dutch one and just using the defcon.
Great video! The ingress/egress sucks! Mine didn't breath at all, so in SC with nice weather it was still miserable. But the kids like it.
Thanks!
I use Carinthia Observer. Great and honest review. 👍
Your honest review saved me here.
Will pass on this.
Test the snugpak scorpion 2 next!
I use defcone 5 bivy, and there are a lot of moisture after a few hours.
Use it from 5 to -3 degrees Celsius.
I bought this while I was stationed in Alaska with hopes it would solve the stuffy feeling of the mss bivy. I had the same problem of water soaking through and waking up to find my sleeping bag and feet soaked. It's an awesome bivy if you just want some relief from bugs but as far as water gose it doesn't keep it out.
Try the aquaquest bivy it was designed by people who live in the Pacific Northwest and is waterproof.
I speak from experience.
👍👍👍
I do all my hiking in canadian military bivvy bag and my poncho. Its awesome and ive been using it for over 15yrs.
I would have thought that it would be like their Ionosphere which has poles on the foot end, that's a stupid design on the Stratosphere having no support on the foot end. No wonder it leaked like hell. Like you said, I don't see how you can get into that when the weather is crappy and not get everything wet on the inside. Too confining also and doesn't look like any room for your pack either. Thanks for the video Randall. 👍
I think it would benefit from being hooped at the bottom too. But water coming in at the top is a concern. Not sure if you've heard of the company OEX? But their cheaper Bivi similar to this one is meant to be great.
Cool I'll check it out
Glad to see this almost bought it and instead spent a ton on a Rab ridge raider. Haven’t had it in a rain storm yet though.
I just heard about those. Let me know how it does
@@GruntProof for sure brother! If you do buy one I see them occasionally on sale for 250-280$ don’t pay full price.
Damn
@@GruntProof if not, I’ll mail mine to you. Mail it back when you’re done. I’m prepping for a hunt till September so doubtful I’ll be using it anytime soon
Thank you for the offer but I'd hate to break your stuff in testing. I'll add it to my watch list for when it's on sale or a good used one
Hit it with some silicone spray or any type of weatherseal tent aerosol and call it good. I have both strato and ionosphere and sprayed them with Thompsons, never had an issue. Slept in MANY rainy night in PNW.
The lies of bivys are many, hear is my top 3: 1 NO bivy is 100% water proof in a long soaking rain, you must have a tarp over it. 2 condensation is why you plan only 1 night max in a bivy. 2 nights or more only!! if you can dry it out really well in the day. 3 don't even think of it in hot or muggy weather with a horrible bugs, yes there are worse things than death. Experience is the best teacher! Hope this helps some one. Ps. Loved the video.
Good point. I've lived in mine for about 23 days in a rough winter. The MSS holds up great, but you'll be wet from climbing in and out of it. I definitely wouldn't use a bivy only of I had the choice. Thanks
I own this! I live in Seattle and use it in the rain ALL THE TIME!!! Never have I had it leak! NEVER the story with snugpak and why the quality went down temporarily was due to shifting manufacturers from the UK to china. In intermittent first year to dial their qc products left production that were sht. Once they dialed in at the verge of the negative publicity they got back on track. Their higher end items are still manufactured in the UK as well , all the high end bivy sacks are made in the UK.
Anyway, I think you make great reviews and have a great Channel but I don’t think you highlighted this product in a real world situation. With a human inside , especially at the feet also with the material stretched out and staked water wouldn’t sit that way. There is NO MATERIAL whiCh would pass that situation, your mss bivy which I also own and use is a heavy gortex material and isn’t designed to be a bowl for water and not penetrate! As a user I wanted to defend this product . If it was sht I’d be the first to jump on the bandwagon and agree but that’s not the case.
Clicked the bell and did not get notification for this video
Damn
@@GruntProof didn't get notification of your reply either. Still looking out for your vids anyways
I’ve woken up in failed bivy tents. Not fun. Like a suffocating wet nylon blanket. Went to the mss as a result. Gonna try a litefighter this summer, hopes its an improvement, but looks very fragile.
I haven't heard any complaints on that one yet
From what I can tell these “lightweight” bivvy tents are hit or miss, if you want to go the bivvy route just get a normal one and pair it with a tarp, otherwise a lightweight 1 man tent packs down to about the same size and gives you all the benefits of air flow and space, I’d only take one of these if I needed to be low profile and pack up quick which if we’re being honest most of us don’t need to.
Thanks for your test! Now I know what not to buy.
You just can't beat a tarp, these gimmicky bivvy tents are fine in theory but as you ably illustrated, how do you get in there and keep it dry in the rain? Bring a tarp? Okay then why not just bring a tarp and a regular bivvy?
At least with a regular bivvy (at least the ones we get here) you can stick your pack into it, twist the end up and use it to float your pack. I seriously doubt this thing could do that.
Another excellent video, keep them coming!
Yes! Thanks
Was going to buy one, not now after that water test.
If you could pitch or prop up the end it would be fine
@@GruntProof Hi, thanks for the honest review. I live in UK lots of rain. I should not have to prop up the end. I need something better. 👍
A condensation nightmare!!
Got mine last night. It's a little tight with even my smallest sleeping pad inside. If you're a big guy like me, I suggest putting your sleeping pad under the bivy. I'll keep it around for an emergency, but it's not something I will use regularly. For the price, they could afford to make it a little bigger, with thicker material and better zippers. 6/10
Thx for the vid, an I'm more of a tent guy
I have slept in some proper heavy rain in the UK for multiple days and never had this problem. I don’t think just leaving it outside the in the rain the the seams not on without even being in it is a proper test.
Of course! Could have exceeded the rating, or I just got a bum one.
There's no reason to buy a Bivy system when the MSS bivy exists. I've woken up floating in one. I was in Hawwai so obviously our mileage varied. We hardly ever used the sleep system except for bay style lodging like Kuwait or we had Kwanset? (IDK how to speel it) Huts on PTA on the Big Island. We normally just carried a poncho and a woobie, but we had other things we did like remove all the charcoal for our chemsuit jacket to usd it like a field sweatshirt. We never really had an issue with cold unless we were wet. So nobody carried the system, with the exception of the bivy because it could literally save your life. Hypothermia could happen just as quick as heat exhaustion in the Kahukus. We were light in Hawaii. Pounds equaled pain so the rest of the system was useless.
Honestly, I think that the only time my entire Sleep system was together in my ruck was for the packing list for EIB. Obviously, the army taught me to be homeless their way, but I'm moving to a hammock system just for the overall comfort to weight ratio.
@606 10th street that sucks. I’m an 11b so I was state sponsored homeless. I know it’s not really funny but honestly I’ve slept in hand dug tunnels in the ground. Old ones lose their coating. If you get a bottle of scotch guard, you can spray the bag and it’ll water repellant back up.
@606 10th street I’m moving to hammock for a lot of my camping. I’m just working on my Michigan winter portion of it now. But I should be in right around the same weight as the MSS once complete and that includes the overhead shelter. I think once you add a little comfort into the mix, it starts to out pace the MSS. You only wanna lay on the ground but for so long.
Well for a start this bivvy is no harder than any other bivvy to get into when it’s raining as they all need extra shelter when the weather is inclement.secondly maybe you should do the test again and fill the bivvy out with something so the water has more chance to run off.
It is almost like you wanted the bag to fail.
I've slept in my MSS bivy in monsoon downpours and was fine. I test products against their "military grade" marketing.
@@GruntProof you TOTALLY missed my point 😂 the point I made was that you never slept in the stratosphere it was left all flat so the water could lie on it.do the test again and fill the stratosphere out so it’s like someone is actually inside and see what happens then 😂 you think people are hating on you but you are hating on this product for no good reason.test it fairly.
That's a good point. I just think "waterproof" should mean WATERPROOF.
@@GruntProof well I can’t argue with that and you are right.is it possible the water ingressed through the front vent because of the driven rain?the wind seemed to be blowing in just the right direction for that to be a possibility.I’ve been watching a few reviews and I haven’t seen one end this badly for the stratosphere.
I slept in the bag in the rain and was fine, although it is necessary to put all the pegs in the ground so you can create an surface that will let the water slide and not pool, material is water resistant, that means it can ha dle the pouring but it cant handle the pooling, if you let water pool you will be fked. I slept in warm temperatures in my summer sleeping bag without any mat, and i woke up feeling pretty cold but dry, but then again, these were definitly no Monsoon pours mind you.
Great review. I will now definitely pass on it.
I keep looking at getting small bivi tents like this, then I set up my tarp and poncho and go "Naw, this is fine"
xD same
@@couchcamperTM bro they're as good as MR bags but half the price. Idk how no one else has them. Theyre a hidden gem in North America
Once again I got no notifications of this video
Nice one man
On the weight: If it fails to do its job, it's not actually ultralightgear. It's heavy junk.
From the comments it seems like the poor waterproofness is due to a quality control issue with some users reporting very good and others have the same bad water seep throuh problems.
You would think a 180+ eur bivy tent would not suffer these types of problems.
I hope snugpack can be transparent about this issue and inform the buyers whether their product is defective or not when they purchase it e.g. a simple "* quality controlled waterproof tested"
Or just own up to the problem and recall the bad batches
Considering the price of Snugpak stuff, I would say that reviewing Highlander or Mil-tec material would have more sense, at least those brands are cheaper.
leaving somthing in the rain to test how waterproof it is is fine but owning a Snugpak Stratosphere Bivy Tent i find condensation on the inside when it is slightly cold a major problem. [cold wet clammy].
Yea I didn't even get to that point
Disappointing to see products from companies like Snugpak fail. You'd expect that from Walmart, Target or cheap products off of Amazon. Some of these companies are just riding off of their reputation and have slacked off on producing good gear.
From my understanding from another youtube channel snugpak has started outsourcing to China. Since doing this their quality has gone to hell.
snugpack is a great product. Sometimes people just want to bully a company to make themselves look like they know something when they don't. Don't listen to this guy. Snugpak is a great company and they have excellent customer service.
@@karolynrice6267 GP knows his shit. I trust his judgements when it comes to gear.
Absolutely send it back if you can. Personally I hate sending stuff back, but that bivvy is a proven fail. Thanks for all you do!
Thanks!
This type of tent can use under the bushes
All.tents shud be waterproof or why buy it. Its a shelter plain and simple. Ur life is on the line or cud be.
I didn't like it...too confining for me. Got a bad case of claustrophobia.
Stakes are auper weak at the heads
Weird. I’m subscribed but your vids aren’t showing in my sub feed.
I keep hearing that. Sometimes youtube gets mad at me
Bad test, you said yourself it's designed to have someone inside with a sleeping pad and a sleeping bag, this would raise the height and allow water to bead off.
Yea but if you're shorter than the bivy it'll still flood and then run all over your legs
@@GruntProof that's a guess, for a test to be accurate you would need to "test" your theory. Plenty of videos out there of people using this with zero issues. So either you have a defective product or it was never designed to be sat out in the rain empty.
you have a point but if I'm going to pay $175 for a "bivy" or tent, that thing better be able to handle rain, no matter how it's used. And this test was even in light rain.
@@GruntProof that I can agree with. But you got a bad product by the looks, plenty of other videos out there showing it with zero issues with leaks.
So it's not a waterproof bivvy tent. It's a "waterproof bivvy tent shaped object". cool 😂
If Snugpak stuff were inexpensive then this kind of crap might be excusable.
Or if it were super-lightweight.
But it is neither of those things.
British army bivvy doesn't leak like this
SnugPack started making their stuff in China. Was it the UK version or the China made version?
Made in China. I haven't found a product of theirs yet that isn't
I think it was somewhere around 2016-2018 they started to make a lot of their products in China to reduce manufacturing costs. Apparently some profits are still made in the UK but it’s unclear which are made their and which are now only designated in the UK.
I have heard the older UK made stuff was much better quality. As you tested the quality is no longer their.
Keep up the awesome videos.
Meh I like my usgi bivy never looked elsewhere.. maybe I'm boring
It's an aw piece of gear
I just bought a tent combat one person screw all that lightweight camper garbage.
Thanks for the D.I.Y. I use to love SnugPak; but thru the years their quality is on the decline
Did they eat it and refund you?
nope