Can Gibson Custom Finally Beat VINTAGE?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2021
- Can Gibson’s modern day Custom Shop match up to their 60s heyday? That’s been very much the question running amok on internet guitar forums since the dawn of dial-up, but can we finally answer it here today? Let’s find out…
John recently acquired a stunning example of the ‘Crossroads’ spec, ’64 ES-335: to many, the ultimate 60s era Gibson that truly encapsulates the magic of blues-rock legends - spitting forth harmonic, feedback-rich, golden tones at the player’s command. We thought we’d take the opportunity to compare this rare beast to the modern day understudy: Gibson Custom’s 1964 335 reissue, handcrafted to recreate the ultimate specs.
Jack brought in his own Custom Shop ’64 335 to see how well the modern day stacks up to its 56 year old sibling. Two very different guitars, with two different rigs and two different guitar players. The results could be interesting!…
Let us know your pick in the comments below, and how you think the reissue stacks up to the big daddy!
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May I say, the best guitar design ever?
Awesome video, all the playing and tones are fantastic. Here's some time stamps from Jack playing all three pickup positions on both guitars to help people compare:
Vintage Neck 29:45
Vintage Both 29:55
Vintage Bridge 30:10
Reissue Neck 30:33
Reissue Both 30:51
Reissue Bridge 31:00
Thanks for the time stamps.
I have no idea why these people never edit A/Bs position for position.🙄🙄🙄
the vintage 335 just has something magical in its tone. both sound amazing though, especially with players like these 2 .
Well.. the customshop one for the price is killer.. The old one's pickups sound brighter and more open. Both killer guitars. :)
And plus you have a great soulful player behind it joe's a monster!
And Jack's a beast too
I wanted to like the custom as much but it just doesn't compare to the older HBs :/
They both sound great! But yea Jack you were in the zone when you played John’s ‘64. It was mesmerizing to both hear and see. Thanks for the vid, cheers!
That case has done its job
It sure has! It cased the hell out of the guitar!
The vintage one has a lot of "you can't really buy this tone" vibes going on
I LOVE the style of this video. Great job guys.
Congrats on the purchase John, lovely lovely guitar. You're on a vintage roll at the moment!! 🤘🤘🍾
The red one sounds better.
Honestly, there is something about those old humbuckers nobody is able to reproduce. That twang & sparkle is magical and very unlike modern HBs. Or maybe everybody it focusing on the pickups while the main tonal difference comes from the bridges or something like that?? ; ) Don't know. It is how it is unfortunately. Although I have to say that the Clapton woman tone was surprisingly more convincing on the new one.
yes definitely the red one
Try Lollar Imperials. They are the closest money can buy and sound superb. Have that slightly out of phase thing all the old PAFs seem to have that most modern humbuckers miss.
No I prefer the red one.
But I have to wonder if they just backed off the volume slightly on the newer guitar if that would match the output better. People don’t use their guitar controls enough. You have to compensate this to compare against 60 year old PAT# pickup bar magnets.
@@j_freed You’re right, but they did. I do it all the time (always sounds clearer that way), still different (as far as I can tell without a direct comparison). Just sounds different compared to all the old records and it’s even apparent on some TH-cam videos. It’s a little mystery.
I think in there own right each guitar stands up really well. John's 62 is always going to sway you because of what it is. But the reissue is really great and you could argue that it's closer to what John's 62 would have sounded like factory fresh. Let's face it we are all winners after that video guys.
Awesome video, great playing. Congratulations on your purchase John!
Great video, thank you for uploading this wonderful content and congrats both of you on your great guitars... End jam was amazing playing!!
Great video. I like the guitar guys talking together format.
The bridge pickup on the vintage 335 is sweet. Really nice.
Great video. Love how informative y’all are, and on top of it, you’re amazing players ….. like the sound of the vintage better
Although I'm Canadian, my Mom had a house in Colchester but this store didn't exist back then when I used to go visit her. What a cool thing to discover that one of my favorite youtube channels is based on a store in Colchester, England! Jack is one kick ass player, that boy is going places!
I'd love to hear how you get on adjusting the pickup height on the re-issue. I am in constant torment adjusting mine and sort wish I'd never started!! Ha! Great playing as always Gents
I had to lookup "argy bargy" as I had absolutely never heard of that expression before. Great video and thank you for teaching me something new. Cheers from Maryland in the states.
Lovely Jubbly
Awesome, I bought a CS 64 in sunburst from you guys last year & couldn’t be happier 🤘🤘👌👌
Jack never doesn’t amaze me. What an incredible player.
The EP booster comment toward the end was on fire 🔥 totally nailed it
Pickup height?
Amazing video!!! Congrats John!!!
Right when I was about to suggest lowering the pickups on the Murphy Lab you mentioned it. :-) Great vid! That was fun. And great playing both you guys. \m/
Jack - most of the vintage pots when measured are more around 550k-575k and that'll add in the bright top end to your 335 and make it much closer in tone to the 64 if you're keen on that!
That 2020 red ‘64 is still the most amazing guitar I own. :) Super happy and validating to know Jack bought one too. I like to think mine helped? :D congratz Jack!
Cant go wrong, fantastic playing as always gentlemen. I couldn't help but pickup my Gibson while watching.
I have a 335 CS '63 Historic from 2015 with Lollar Low wind pickups in it, and I do hear some of that more open, dynamic feel that this video shows. It also definitely has a kind of snap (almost like a banjo) that I haven't felt or heard often in other non vintage 335s.
I have a ‘63 reissue as well. Great guitar. Mine’s from 2013 and has the stock burstbuckers. I have a set of OX4 low winds on order that I’m planning to swap in.
Great video! I have a set of P90’s from a ‘52 Les Paul and PAF’s from a ‘59 355. ‘59 & 62 Strat pickups also. I can’t explain it either…the only difference between new and old pickups is age yet they sound different (IMO better). It’s almost always the high end where you hear the biggest difference. Never harsh or strident.
More quality content from Peach; well done lads! 🍻
You could always drop the pickup height away from the strings. But the new humbuckers certainly have more throttle.
The original PAFs are the Gold Standard. As always, wonderful playing Jack and thanks again John, this is an exceptional channel. 👍
You can get janky and put slightly demagnetized bar magnets in the humbuckers…
Or just give it 50 years!
Or you could have been a Radio DJ in the late 1970’s and take a bulk tape eraser to the pickups to lower the gauss of the magnets therein! But do that when the guitar is NOT plugged in. Otherwise, the NASTY loud hum of the electromagnets in the bulk eraser could easily blow up your amp or speakers!
I’m so glad it was mentioned that the bridge PAF sounds like a P90. I wasn’t sure what I was hearing that was so different. Personally I liked the sound of the custom shop model better. Not that I could even come close to being able to exploit the brilliance of either of these beautiful instruments.
That's not a PAF ....64s don't have PAF in them they got PAT# pickups in them from 62 to 64.. however you're not entirely wrong... cause 62 to 64 PAT# are nothing more than 61 to 62 PAFs with a patent sticker finally on em they're virtually the same lol
winners only in this one. Both sounded great to my ears.
Best thing is that there's a nice red Memphis CS'59 335 RI lying beside me. I think it is from 2009 and I love my 335 ;)
Lowering the pickups and raising the pole pieces on the custom shop should help. Get less of the bar magnet pull. Theres a chance the original magnets in the old one have degaussed a bit over time.
Gentlemen, this is precisely the type of video I'm hoping for when I open up TH-cam. "I've got a surprise for you Jack." That was hilarious! Seriously, those are 2 incredible looking and sounding instruments. Congrats on the '64 John and by the way...get that guitar into a Calton case immediately, lol.
Mono case is all you need
I’d have to say we mere mortals are the winners here…that was fricken awesome! Cheers gents, great playing by both, thanks for this gem👍
The sound of this 64 seems very similar to my 66. These sound much more airy and more trebly than new ones. On mine this it to a some part due to aged magnets. All modern 335s I tried sound a bit more mid rangey and beefy in comparison. In my experience lowering the PUs on the reissue will not make the two guitars sound identical, this special airy characteristics is inherent to the vintage ones, I unsuccessfully tried swapping PUs, magnets, pots, caps (the two latter ones being the biggest fad of all in my mind)
I think Jack's face says it all after he played the original 😂
Congrats to both of you on your new ESs
My experience with older/vintage pickups is that many times they are just a little bit sweeter due in part (IMO) to the pickup's mechanical components just kind of vibrating into a looseness from years of use. They tend to get a little microphonic that in many cases is a good thing.
It would be great to see if the modern could be made to sound closer to the vintage.
Great demo, really enjoyed the comparison and playing.
I really wonder if it is in fact due to ageing, because if you listen back to old 50s and 60s records they really do sound closer to the vintage guitar's sound - which would suggest the sound difference is not due to age. But obviously a very subjective take on the subject.
@@jacknifeskiggs2081 Could be, also, with so many variables (amplifier type, microphones and mixing equipment).Either way, I find it fascinating and enjoy chasing that sound.
You guys should clone that set of pickups and sell them at the shop.
Wonderful playing! Love the almost tele sound in the old one 🤩
Excellent video! I have a number of 50's/60's Gibson's along with some newer replicas and I totally agree with everything said here. The thing I find is that the older guitars have more personality and character. You have to finesse them and sometimes fight them while playing. They are definitely harder to play. But that's part of the sound. As John said, they sound like a record. It's a sum of all the parts & I don't think age has as much to do with it as people think. Back when all of these classic albums were recorded these guitars were new or at least not very old. There is just something magical that can't really be replicated by modern guitars (believe me...I've tried). It's that extra 10%. If I was still playing out I would be taking my newer guitars for the playability and the ease of use. But for recording, I gravitate towards the vintage guitars for obvious reasons.
Great stuff - awesome guitars, both of them! I was lucky to be able to pick between two 1963 Murphy Lap M2M cherry reds. I love it :)
Wow! Gibson has definitely upped there game. Excellent comparison.
Great players, guitars, and vibe!
Thx for taking us along on the Pepsi challenge gents ✌️
They're both superb: great playing!!!
I liked my R9 with stock Custom Bucker PUPs. Tried WCR Godwoods and it made a HUGE improvement.
Fantastic Video. One of the best comparisons. Loved your collective dialogue about the guitars and how they elicit something different depending on how they respond. Both sounded great. At the end however, I think the original 64 sounds better. But overall for my money, I would be thrilled with the custom shop reissue. *And in fact own a 64 Reissue Murphy lab Ultra light Aged Gibson Custom Shop 335. It is the best guitar in my collection or right up there with my Wildwood 10 Custom Shop 61 fender heavy Relic Strat ....and also my Collings I-30LC.
Fantastic show!!
What am awesome investment.. Both sounded great, some great playing here too.. Great content 👍🏼
Really enjoyed that. I felt the same thing playing a 64 SG, like they didn't sound like Humbuckers, and big open sound. Whatever it is with the old guitars, it's a big difference. Would love to see a video screwing around with pickup height and pole piece height trying to get the CS to sound closer to the old one.
Replace new humbucker bar magnets with old or partly demagnetized units.
@@j_freed Find unpotted "new" HBs first, some good folks make them. Theres all the difference
Q: what string size was on them? When you do a full comparison test can you add the Epiphone
Very nice video. Those 2 guitars could not be more different. Personally I like the older 335 better. Way more bite and grind to it. Reminds me of the sound of Clapton's 335 in Cream.
Love em both .. that neck pick-up, Dear lord.. The 335 are calling ..
Great video!!! And cool hair John! 👍🏾
Great comparison. The clipping on your lapel mics drove me mad though.
I know this is about the guitars, but the thing that stood out most to me was the Friedman, (the two rock of course did what a two rock does.. glorious) but man that Friedman sounds fantastic with both.
Please do this more often! Great video!
Hands down the vintage one sounds killer !!! Great AB video ! 🤙
Man that vintage just made my jaws drop amazing! hold onto that one! The custom shops are amazing guitars but that particular vintage model is just something special. Not all vintage guitars are quality guitars but that one definitely is!
Oh, Boys, boys, boys …. Bloody brilliant that! Loved it and (for me at least) there definitely cannot be a ‘winner’ between the two, let alone a ‘clear winner’. It’s pretty simple really; both guitars definitely sound different to each other, but both sound absolutely killer in their own right, though it’s true that both the feel of the guitar and how each make you feel of course effects how you play and ultimately the sound both produce. Definitely would be interested to hear/see you try to make them sound as close to each other as you can get, either with set up changes or EQ/Amp or both as, I reckon you can get close enough to the point that, beyond subtle differences in physical feel, they will sound alike enough that you would drive yourself crazy trying to play spot the difference (if you can be bothered, that is). Get one of your guitar tech’s or a luthier to help you with the set up on the re-issue would be the best starting point I reckon, but can’t wait to hear it 👍😉
I thought they both sounded awesome. Great video as always, enjoy your weekend. ☮️
The most important difference is that the Reissue doesn't use the accurate Pickups that would be in a 64 ES335. The 335 has Pre T-Tops with short A5 magnets whereas the Reissues has Custom Buckers with A3 Magnets that are more like a very early 57 PAF. So it's actually apples and oranges...
My ears liked the vintage 335 plugged into the Friedman amp. Magic!
I swapped my 335 pickups to slightly weaker pickups and it gave me alot of the characteristics of the older one. Maybe on these custom shops Gibson should offer an under wound option for those looking for this brighter vintage sound.
I think wildwood here in the states does just that
Problem with these modern Gibson pickups are that the magnets are charged too strong... put in some degaussed short A5 magnets and it will be way closer to the old one..
@@ericjenks9596 I bought a 58 reissue Wildwood spec Les Paul for exactly this reason, and it is the absolute closest I’ve ever been to the “real” PAF sound. The lower overall output makes it what it is.
I think Jack had a fair point in that a lot of guys may think they want the vintage PAF thing, but are dissatisfied when they finally have it. I’ve seen so many guys online refer to vintage, low-wind, unpotted PAF replicas as “harsh”, when I would wager a guess that they’re really just accurate.
I feel the original 64 has something extra the reissue is still a very nice guitar. I have a 76 335 with factory fitted coil tap I love it . Thank you for a really good video. It's great to see them side by side ❤
Gorgeous guitars both nice sounding good presentation good job fellas
I'm your grandfather and those guitars and you Boyz make me feel 15/25 again!!! I owned ALL the original gear and truth be told "all things new become old as old things become new"
Broth are outstanding instruments. The 64 really came alive in both your hands, as did the custom shop. I love the 64!
I like the inlays of the old one a lot more, nice deep shine… on the new one they are more green/yellow.
"Don't be nervous boy" :)
Had a few early 60s 335 s ..purchased in LA in 1980 from California guitars ;had to sell after my stint at GIT,,like most musos ,,long story /short..bought a custom shop the reason Eva use it felt like my original 64 335 ..
oh man... the more I hear... I hear what an amazing Guitar it is
Love this one. I do prefer the weaker bridge pickup. My custom shop les Paul is so much more appealing and fun than what I got from a standard 50s. The later was much harsher and harder to control.
Which Two Rock amp is that and what is sitting on top of it? That amp sounds SO good.
Love both these guitars! I’d definitely go with the reissue, 20-25% the cost of the original, if you could find one?
But you will still have a reissue. No
Great comparison! Basically the exact result I expected and have experienced myself when comparing vintage to reissue. IMO the modern hardware is really the weakest link in tone between the vintage guitars and the modern. I'm not sure if the burst-bucker pups are really all that bad, but the modern bridges, saddles and tailpieces do not compare tonally to the original hardware AT ALL. Specifically the soft brass saddles on the original 50s-mid 60s bridges makes a HUGE difference to warm up the tone and increase the sustain and liveliness of the guitar. Also, if that tailpiece/stop bar is not a featherweight it can really suck out tone/sustain and add a bright/harsh tone. I'd start with replacing the bridge and tailpiece or even just the saddles with some nice reissue soft brass saddles or if you're lucky enough to find vintage brass saddles, those are still the best. Next, make sure you have some PIO capacitors in your wiring harness before doing any other replacements like pickups, pots etc. Caps, soft brass saddles and a light-weight tailpiece are the keys to very easily adding that vintage warmth and sustain to your modern guitar.
Wheres the best place to find these saddles and tailpiece/stop bars? I have a Gibson Custom 59' Reissue, I too would personally like it to sounds closer to the vintage bright sound.
@@jacknifeskiggs2081 I've compared real 50s tailpieces to any decent replica featherweight stop bar and they are close enough, so don't spend $1000 on a vintage one. The bridge however is where all the magic is. There's a seller on eBay now selling soft brass saddles I'd be interested in trying. But so far a Faber bridge comes closest but still not close enough. An original bridge with brass saddles will now cost somewhere between $300-1200 depending on the year. They've gone up a lot since people realized how big of a difference they make to tone.
Love John's sense of humor. Let's put some EMG's in their with no battery. HAHA! His facial expression when he said it had me rollin.
I hate that I like the 1964 so much more. The thinner brighter sounding pickups works so well with the tonal qualities of those woods.
You passed the test . Unlike many who think they like vintage but don't . Lol . An early 70s would get you way closer than a repro for actual vintage sound and feel .
They both sounded great ! The PAF have more of a single coil sound than the other ! Personally I like the non PAF sound it’s fuller ! I’ve played all my life on 335,345and 355
I always enjoy your videos. You just present guitars in a really great way. No I did not compare to other “shows” :-) :-). And you playing are better too…
Fantastic video. Would be nice to see some blind tone comparisons though. We are naturally biased / conditioned to prefer "vintage tone" especially when we know which guitar is which.
The newer Gibson CS are killer, no question. But if you find the right older guitar with the right pick-ups... my old 345 has a wonderful neck pickup, airy, very clear, and the guitar has an overall kinda quacky nature to it that I really like. I played quite a few vintage but so far this is the only one I kept... Between those 2 335, tone wise, I would go with the 64. Awesome guitar! Congrats!
Both sound fantastic but the difference in output is more noticeable than I've heard on Les Paul or SG comparisons...or perhaps, the nature of the guitar vs a solidbody amplifies the difference in output. As much as I hate the 'magic pixy dust' connotations that vintage guitars so often invoke it's hard to deny that the vintage sounded quite different....which really is baffling considering they are made from virtually identical material and in a virtually identical manner. Great video, thank you!
Is it just me or do the horns of the CS reissue look just a little bit slimmer compared to the original? I am aware that Gibson changed the design a little from the "Mickey Mouse ears" to the sharper horns at around 1963, but considering the '64 reissue should be made exactly to the specs of an original 64, the horns seem a bit off. Anyone else notice the same thing?
You can find massive forum threads debating the accuracy of the horns on 60’s block neck 335 reissues. I guess Gibson has struggled to get them right for years, the closest being the Eric Clapton Crossroads model they put out a few years ago. Those bodies were made at the Terada plant in Japan. Strange that a plant that makes Gretsch guitars makes a more accurate Gibson body, but I digress. The current ‘64 custom shop model is close enough for me, but I find the exhaustive analysis fascinating.
@@reverb508 Maybe we have to factor that Japanese guitar craftsmen are still living masters at hand construction, they can do everything without CNC. That takes a remarkable eye.
My friend's '64 has really pointy horns like a '67 but I've seen them quite round. I have a theory that Gibson had several different body molds. I also have a suspicion that in the later 60's they may have bought out an earlier mold when production ramped up. My 68 has the Mickey Mouse ears from the late 50's. Speculation, I know.
You're right, they are different shapes
Both really cool and so nice to look at... exactly Clapton-esque
What Klon pedal were you using?
Reminds me of JD Simo, both guitars are beautiful.
25:10 the grin on John's face.. 😁
Great guitars!
...”boy!” So aggressive, : ) love these two guys, they played awesome. I was listening the whole time, not watching, I’m sure the feel goes a long way with these two lovey instruments
great playing ! thats much more important.
A great comparison, but your video editor should watch the wave form when editing the audio levels. Loved the video though!
Gosh the vintage one is so articulate !!! Damn it !! I’m very curious what a Murphy reissue with humbucker sized P90s like throbaks would be like? Probably more similar??
'64 Gibson 335 + Klon + Two Rock Amp. What's not to love? Sounds like Heaven to me.
That 64 is incredible, that being said I thought the reissue is a worthy guitar.
Sweet baby Jesus that thing sounds incredible.
You’re not overthinking it - the sonic difference is clear as day. Sheesh this video got me
I have to agree with a lot of the comments here that there is really something special about the vintage guitar. Which is a bit surprising to me because I have recently played several of the custom shop '64 335s and they are some of the nicest guitars that I have ever played and sound fantastic. It's all relative I guess!! I still want one badly, they are quite expensive but the original is unobtainable...
I'd love to see if Matt at Monty's could get the CS sounding closer to the vintage guitar with his PAF's. For my money they have that single coil like clarity you seek. Great playing and insights chaps! Bravo.