Joel Grey has had a long career. According to Wikipedia, he was a featured performer at the Copacabana in 1952. My wife and I saw him on Broadway in "Anything Goes" in 2012. He is now (July 2021) 89 years old.
I always thought of him as just a song and dance man until I saw him in a very memorable episode of Star Trek Voyager. It should've been an ordinary episode but not with him in it. The writers gave him a lot to do and he ran with it and made it memorable.
Up to the July 1967 episodes, WML guests panelists who are still alive in 2020 are: Woody Allen, Paul Anka, Joanna Barnes, Harry Belafonte, Jeannie Carson, Dick Cavett, Joan Collins, Anne Douglas, Barbara Feldon, Jane Fonda, Anita Gillette, Joel Grey, George Hamilton, Jack Jones, Aliza Kashi, Steve Lawrence, Michele Lee, Pia Lindstrom, Sue Oakland, Mort Sahl, William Shatner, Marlo Thomas, Pamela Tiffin, Dick Van Dyke, Betty White.
Recorded on July 9, 1967. Joel Grey had been on the panel before on the lot June 18, 1967 episode. And exactly one year later, after this episode was taped, Joel Grey was the first mystery guest on the first taping of the new WML.
Peggy Cass may not have been a great beauty, but she was attractive, with a great personality, as well as being very witty. Of all the panelists on TTTT, I like her the best.
Me too! As I commented elsewhere on this page, she certainly looked pretty enough in this episode and in general for *someone* to have said *something* positive about her appearance to contradict her negative reply to the "beautiful girl" question, and I was disappointed in John and the whole panel for not doing so.
This is second time Phyllis sat on a panel when a Sauna builder appeared before the panel. The first time, she got involved in a definition discussion as to whether it could be found in a bathroom. As I recall that sauna expert said they should not be in a bathroom. Of course, the Fins are right particular about this definition.
soulierinvestments Johan Bengtsson I think that "sauna expert" was in particular thinking of a typical sauna hut or cabin, placed in the yard, which was common in the countryside in Finland that time. But already then, they were built in connection to the bathroom, although *not in* the bathroom itself. (Not very practical).
Peggy Cass was Oscar nominated for her hilarious supporting turn as pregnant Agnes Gooch in Auntie Mame (1958). She lost to Wendy Hiller for her dramatic role in Separate Tables.
I saw that production of “Don’t Drink the Water” when I was 12 years old. I have faint memories of it being hilariously funny, my family all went, and everyone loved it. The great character actor Lou Jacobi was in it, he was the best.
That year was about the weakest Oscar year ever. Wendy Hiller won for "Separate Tables" and there was nothing great in her performance And David Niven won best actor for the same movie -- the shortest on screen time of any Best Oscar winner. Nothing remarkable about his performance. And Peggy Cass couldn't beat a very weak field.
About a year and a month after Joel's appearance here, he became the first mystery guest of syndicated WML. I have yet to see that clip turn up in YouTubia. About a year after that, when Joel was the star of a musical about Cohen entitled "George M!" he appeared as a syndicated WML panelist one memorable day when the young Dustin Hoffmann appeared as a mystery guest to plug both his Broadway play "Jimmy Shine" and his yet to be released movie entitled "Midnight Cowboy." In the course of that sequence, they remembered that sometime in the 60s they had appeared together in an off Broadway play called "Harry Noon and Night." As lovers. Nice work if you can get it.
Since Lauren Bacall, Phyllis Newman, and Gene Rayburn, have been seen on WML on GSN, I think what happened was no kinescope was made, or there was one made, but it is lost.
John Wettermark I think they did, and then after, if they wanted to, they could buy the dress for less than the current market price. Several times I've heard Johnny Olson announcing their dresses and the designer/company after the show. Advertising money well spent. ;)
Re the wardrobe: I read that Arlene had a business arrangement with some high-end designer shop, who supplied her with those (usually) beautiful frocks. Great promo!
Yes, it made me sad to see not only that Peggy described herself as not being beautiful, but that the audience (and John!) ultimately went along with it.
What's My Line? Carol Burnett answered similarly on one of her MG appearances, without any correction; another time, I think John Daly DID change the answer to the affirmative. Beauty is only skin deep, of course, but Agnes Gooch is forever! ;)
Todd Brandt Peggy Cass as herself was much more attractive than she was as the Agnes Gooch character, and I thought she looked quite pretty in this episode. I also thought John should have at least said something like, "...well, she may not describe herself as a 'beautiful girl,' but she *is* an attractive woman." And when her identity was revealed, I thought at least Arlene would say something positive about Peggy's appearance. I hope her feelings weren't hurt.
Peggy shook her head no. And the answer served to cloud her identity which is what the game is all about. A better question would have been if she was known for her glamour persona. JCD obviously respects and values Peggy Cass.
Too bad July 23, 1967 is missing. I really wanted to see Lauren Bacall in her 3rd and final MG appearance. Gary would have posted it, last August, if it had existed.
I wonder what happened to the golf ball retriever in later life - often somebody in the comments has tracked down the person and found the answer but not his time. I've heard of scuba divers retrieving golf balls from water hazards but this man did it from dry land apparently.
Perspicacity. There is a word for you that should turn up more often. Shelley Berman got a huge laugh in Jan 1961 with that word. Arlene asks young brother and sister Egg farmers from Kentucky if their product was the result of a cow's perspicacity. [No] Shelley then observes drily, "Well -- I have never seen a cow's perspicacity."
I think it fits within their usual use of the term on the show (they have described other animals as products many times), but it is interesting that Bennett (and you) after all this time disagree with that.
I was 19 and my mother was 40 at that time. (She was a fashion consultant for a department store.) I don't recall anything that ugly being in fashion at the time--but I was pretty oblivious to fashion at that time. I'm pretty sure my mother wouldn't have been caught dead in it, however.
@Doctor James - This dress is not Arlene's style, but I suspect she did not choose it for the loveliness of the design. On Sundays, when performing, she and her husband visited their son at Deerfield Academy and if this show was taped, which it may have been, during the school term the dress could have been in the school colors for some sort of end-of-term garden party for which one would not wear a cocktail dress or evening gown. My other consideration would be that this was the era of Mary Quant as a designer and Arlene was now age 60. This type of casual, long lawn dress with bold colors possibly would have been as close as a woman of her taste and age would dare come to wearing an actual Mary Quant dress because hers were all quite short, but otherwise sometimes similar. There was a lot of color-blocking and many geometric patterns happening in her work.
I'm not usually fond of bold stripped dresses, but I like Arlene's gown tonight for some reason. It would be striking if it were black and white, but I suspect red.
Except that there is a much wider age differential in the latter case. While Tina Louise was 4 1/2 years older than Dawn Wells, Kitty Carlisle Hart was 13 2/3 years older than Peggy Cass (who was 43 years old when this episode of WML? was videotaped).
"You call a giraffe a product?"
"A mother and father giraffe would."
Arlene you get me every time.
I know this was 8years ago but I totally agree! I absolutely love her wit!!!!
@@thatsassyrepublicanthis was not 8 years ago..... He posted it 8 years ago but this was long before that
Peggy Cass made a few movies, most notably "Auntie Mame" in 1958 for which she got an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actress.
Joel Grey has had a long career. According to Wikipedia, he was a featured performer at the Copacabana in 1952. My wife and I saw him on Broadway in "Anything Goes" in 2012. He is now (July 2021) 89 years old.
I always thought of him as just a song and dance man until I saw him in a very memorable episode of Star Trek Voyager. It should've been an ordinary episode but not with him in it. The writers gave him a lot to do and he ran with it and made it memorable.
It’s 2024 and he’s 92. 🥰
Up to the July 1967 episodes, WML guests panelists who are still alive in 2020 are: Woody Allen, Paul Anka, Joanna Barnes, Harry Belafonte, Jeannie Carson, Dick Cavett, Joan Collins, Anne Douglas, Barbara Feldon, Jane Fonda, Anita Gillette, Joel Grey, George Hamilton, Jack Jones, Aliza Kashi, Steve Lawrence, Michele Lee, Pia Lindstrom, Sue Oakland, Mort Sahl, William Shatner, Marlo Thomas, Pamela Tiffin, Dick Van Dyke, Betty White.
preppy socks - Thanks for the list. It's comforting.
Since that time, Joanna Barnes, Harry Belafonte and Betty White have passed.
Recorded on July 9, 1967. Joel Grey had been on the panel before on the lot June 18, 1967 episode.
And exactly one year later, after this episode was taped, Joel Grey was the first mystery guest on the first taping of the new WML.
And Peggy Cass was a mystery guest before, in 1963. She used that same deep voice as a disguise.
Peggy Cass may not have been a great beauty, but she was attractive, with a great personality, as well as being very witty. Of all the panelists on TTTT, I like her the best.
I fully agree. :)
Me too! As I commented elsewhere on this page, she certainly looked pretty enough in this episode and in general for *someone* to have said *something* positive about her appearance to contradict her negative reply to the "beautiful girl" question, and I was disappointed in John and the whole panel for not doing so.
There is a glamorous photo of Peggy on the WML Facebook page. She was beautiful and lovable! :-)
It was Peggy herself that kept saying no to that question; the audience was clapping loudly that she was a beauty.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I loved it when she and Orson Bean would squabble.
This is second time Phyllis sat on a panel when a Sauna builder appeared before the panel. The first time, she got involved in a definition discussion as to whether it could be found in a bathroom. As I recall that sauna expert said they should not be in a bathroom. Of course, the Fins are right particular about this definition.
Every sauna I have seen have been in a bathroom or a shower room.
soulierinvestments Johan Bengtsson I think that "sauna expert" was in particular thinking of a typical sauna hut or cabin, placed in the yard, which was common in the countryside in Finland that time. But already then, they were built in connection to the bathroom, although *not in* the bathroom itself. (Not very practical).
Peggy Cass was Oscar nominated for her hilarious supporting turn as pregnant Agnes Gooch in Auntie Mame (1958). She lost to Wendy Hiller for her dramatic role in Separate Tables.
Actors in dramas win Oscars over actors in comedies.
Peggy's looks vastly improved during the color eps,. of WML
Regarding Bennett's pun with the first challenger, he should consider himself lucky that he didn't make a Maudle enemy.
Lois Simmons - And for no lack of trying.
Her name (Mordle) almost rhymes with "mortal"...
Cerf was a know it all & could never Stay quiet!
Joel Grey at 17:50 does his 'Cabaret M.C.' laugh. Love it!
The sauna builder even said the word 'vihta', the birch branches you use in the sauna!
I can’t see how a sauna could possibly be good for one’s heart or blood pressure? ?
This was a more educated age, sad to say, when the word perspicacity can be used by John Daly and everyone knows what it means. 14:41
I saw that production of “Don’t Drink the Water” when I was 12 years old. I have faint memories of it being hilariously funny, my family all went, and everyone loved it. The great character actor Lou Jacobi was in it, he was the best.
"Don't Drink the Water" was written by the great Woody Allen.
Classy Arlene. I love her dress. It looks like what Ralph Lauren does now. ❣️
The panel's deductive powers triumph.
Clara Bow of the Pepsi Generation. too funny.
She got robbed of the Oscar for "Auntie Mame."!!!
That year was about the weakest Oscar year ever. Wendy Hiller won for "Separate Tables" and there was nothing great in her performance And David Niven won best actor for the same movie -- the shortest on screen time of any Best Oscar winner. Nothing remarkable about his performance. And Peggy Cass couldn't beat a very weak field.
About a year and a month after Joel's appearance here, he became the first mystery guest of syndicated WML. I have yet to see that clip turn up in YouTubia. About a year after that, when Joel was the star of a musical about Cohen entitled "George M!" he appeared as a syndicated WML panelist one memorable day when the young Dustin Hoffmann appeared as a mystery guest to plug both his Broadway play "Jimmy Shine" and his yet to be released movie entitled "Midnight Cowboy." In the course of that sequence, they remembered that sometime in the 60s they had appeared together in an off Broadway play called "Harry Noon and Night." As lovers. Nice work if you can get it.
Since Lauren Bacall, Phyllis Newman, and Gene Rayburn, have been seen on WML on GSN, I think what happened was no kinescope was made, or there was one made, but it is lost.
I wonder if, back then, designers and/or stores lent dresses for the female members of the panel to wear.
John Wettermark I think they did, and then after, if they wanted to, they could buy the dress for less than the current market price. Several times I've heard Johnny Olson announcing their dresses and the designer/company after the show. Advertising money well spent. ;)
I sure hope to hell Arlene didn't buy that one.
Re the wardrobe: I read that Arlene had a business arrangement with some high-end designer shop, who supplied her with those (usually) beautiful frocks. Great promo!
Well, I think Peggy Cass was beautiful, deep down inside of her.
Yes, it made me sad to see not only that Peggy described herself as not being beautiful, but that the audience (and John!) ultimately went along with it.
I believe there are no unattractive people, only unattractive attitudes.
What's My Line? Carol Burnett answered similarly on one of her MG appearances, without any correction; another time, I think John Daly DID change the answer to the affirmative. Beauty is only skin deep, of course, but Agnes Gooch is forever! ;)
Todd Brandt
Peggy Cass as herself was much more attractive than she was as the Agnes Gooch character, and I thought she looked quite pretty in this episode. I also thought John should have at least said something like, "...well, she may not describe herself as a 'beautiful girl,' but she *is* an attractive woman." And when her identity was revealed, I thought at least Arlene would say something positive about Peggy's appearance. I hope her feelings weren't hurt.
***** And given that this is the last live WML until 3 September, she is the last female mystery guest.
what a jerk john daly is that he didn't say she was beautiful
+michael iannucci I wouldnt say jerk but he certainly slipped up as a gentleman
+james joyce you're right...'jerk" a little harsh on my part.
Not harsh....saw him do it to Carol Burnett and Joan? Havoc.
As a newsman John would be motivated to maintain credibility
Peggy shook her head no. And the answer served to cloud her identity which is what the game is all about. A better question would have been if she was known for her glamour persona. JCD obviously respects and values Peggy Cass.
Joel❤❤❤
Too bad July 23, 1967 is missing. I really wanted to see Lauren Bacall in her 3rd and final MG appearance. Gary would have posted it, last August, if it had existed.
Oh no!
Mr. Charles Rawly has the blondest hair I've ever seen on a young man. His tan is a dead giveaway.
I wonder what happened to the golf ball retriever in later life - often somebody in the comments has tracked down the person and found the answer but not his time. I've heard of scuba divers retrieving golf balls from water hazards but this man did it from dry land apparently.
I know, that's why I'm searching the comments ~ I thought his name was very familiar .
Peggy Cass was no beauty, but she certainly was cute.
She had spunk, and unlike Lou Grant, I like spunk. She was also very intelligent.
It’s Agnes Gooch!
Perspicacity. There is a word for you that should turn up more often. Shelley Berman got a huge laugh in Jan 1961 with that word. Arlene asks young brother and sister Egg farmers from Kentucky if their product was the result of a cow's perspicacity. [No] Shelley then observes drily, "Well -- I have never seen a cow's perspicacity."
However, saunas result in perspire-cacity.
soulierinvestments - Funny!
I've gone brain dead for a minute , who was Joel's famous father ?
Mickey Katz
@@LOA1955 My parents knew Mickey Katz and his wife.
Giraffe as a product. Hmm. I'm with Bennett. I think of products as multiple something you can buy off a shelf.
I think it fits within their usual use of the term on the show (they have described other animals as products many times), but it is interesting that Bennett (and you) after all this time disagree with that.
@@RikardPeterson I found it very odd - they've always referred to animals as products in the show!
They use the word "product" to differentiate it from a service.
Arlene Francis is lovely but that dress is hideous.
That dress is possibly the worst mistake she ever made in her life. It is absolutely ugly. She did have better taste than that, didn't she?
I was 19 and my mother was 40 at that time. (She was a fashion consultant for a department store.) I don't recall anything that ugly being in fashion at the time--but I was pretty oblivious to fashion at that time. I'm pretty sure my mother wouldn't have been caught dead in it, however.
Doctor James - You are right. What could have possessed her? I usually love to see what she is wearing.
@Doctor James - This dress is not Arlene's style, but I suspect she did not choose it for the loveliness of the design. On Sundays, when performing, she and her husband visited their son at Deerfield Academy and if this show was taped, which it may have been, during the school term the dress could have been in the school colors for some sort of end-of-term garden party for which one would not wear a cocktail dress or evening gown. My other consideration would be that this was the era of Mary Quant as a designer and Arlene was now age 60. This type of casual, long lawn dress with bold colors possibly would have been as close as a woman of her taste and age would dare come to wearing an actual Mary Quant dress because hers were all quite short, but otherwise sometimes similar. There was a lot of color-blocking and many geometric patterns happening in her work.
Im sure they didn't wear all their own clothes each night for 17 yrs. Would have to have a huge closet.
Joel Grey was sticking his neck out with that Giraffe guess!
TheJMascis666 - Oh, groan, I get it: sticking his neck out.
Bennett certainly has feeble pun competition!
That sounds like a Bennett joke lol. 🦒
I'm not usually fond of bold stripped dresses, but I like Arlene's gown tonight for some reason. It would be striking if it were black and white, but I suspect red.
Bonwit Teller and Arlene strike again. Look at that collar! The 70s are coming.
I noticed this episode is bleary
Joel Grey. Jennifer Grey's Father.
Joel Grey's father was the great Yiddish comedian and satirist Mickey Katz.
@gcjerryusc Dirty Dancing.....but she had a nose job after that which was rather drastic.
And former father-in-law of SHIELD's Agent Phil Coulson.
@@stevenginsberg8471 My parents knew him.
*_GIRAFFE KEEPER_*
*_BUILDS SAUNAS (FINNISH DRY HEAT BATH)_*
*_RETRIEVES LOST GOLF BALLS_*
What in the world is Arlene wearing ?
A Bonwit Teller number.
Looks more like the bargain rack at Woolworth's. One of the few fashion faux pas that Arlene exhibited.
Phyllis Newman can be such a ditz
Of course giraffes can be found in the jungle.
Not really. They're mostly found in savannahs.
Similar to the "Mary Ann or Ginger" debate, there should be a "Peggy or Kitty" debate.
Except that there is a much wider age differential in the latter case. While Tina Louise was 4 1/2 years older than Dawn Wells, Kitty Carlisle Hart was 13 2/3 years older than Peggy Cass (who was 43 years old when this episode of WML? was videotaped).
Kitty
Lord what is up with phyllis' hair !!??? Yikes
Small things amuse small minds...
Gail SickofYourShit
What's up with your mouth?
A ballgag would fix it.
Gail Sirois
Lord what's up with your crack habit?
Yikes! 😬
Put down the pipe!
Phyllis Newman was snotty.
I think Phyllis Newman is so annoying!
You're easily annoyed...
STOP IT JOHN!!!! I feel SO bad for the other contestants he duped by NOT flipping over the cards :(
They all got paid the same. Don’t fret
They would all have got the same these days. The cards were just for form. All game shows have to be seen as doing something for the money.
Why are you the ONLY human being on the planet who gives a rat's ass about that? Get a life!