Oop, I put the wrong text in the 8 Bit talking head clip! It's No PP in the 3rd talking shot, then the bottom left in the 4 head shot comparison. And hey, thanks again for watching :) Welcome aboard if you're new here!
If you are working in SDR, you will not see any difference between the same source material shot in 10 or 8 bit once uploaded to TH-cam. This is because TH-cam is 8 bit with all of its SDR streams, which basically truncates/converts the 10 bit colour range to 8 bit anyway. Post production is a different story if you want to push and pull the picture, then 10 bit is generally more suitable. Although, even if you export those results to 10 bit and upload to TH-cam, again, the colour range will be truncated to 8 bit by TH-cam for SDR and you will see banding that wasn’t there in the 10 bit source after TH-cam’s compression. This all applies to any target that ultimately transcodes and re-compresses to 8 bit. Cheers, Dave.
Great explanation! Thanks for that. It's funny how I learned that AFTER I spent thousands of dollars on cameras and lenses trying to get the highest quality possible just for TH-cam.... An older camera with a great lens shooting in 8 bit 1080p upscaling to 4k would probably look just as good for what I'm doing. Aw well. My new 24mm G-master lens does look pretty great (haven't used much on this channel yet but on my other *sahdlife*), so far no real regrets.
Yes, an older 8 bit camera with good glass can easily look just as good as a modern 10 bit camera and not just for TH-cam stuff. The whole 10 bit thing has been massively misunderstood and misreported on TH-cam and many people simply talk about something that their video doesn’t even show, even established “camera” channels get this wrong. Here’s a video that may explain things a bit better th-cam.com/video/UMQWSgEmPBM/w-d-xo.html I’ve also got some upscaling and chroma sub sampling examples on the channel. Cheers, Dave.
Thank you for this man! I was just about to pay $300 for the Davinci Resolve Studio, thinking I'd get better youtube quality, but if it downgrades 10 bit back to 8, there's no point in me upgrading.
Most of the time 8bit is plenty if you aren't pushing the colours/exposure too much in editing. However it's that one time you film in 8bit and you see colour banding just because you set your background light a bit dimmer than usual and there's more of a gradient, then you switch to 10bit and keep it there :) (that's what happened to me).
Hahah yeah, but you are the only one who notices. lol Naw, I do notice it on peoples videos when I'm watching on my big screen, which happens a lot... and they have a really plain background. But if the story is good enough I don't care... unless I'm looking at my own videos though in which case I'm thinking "this is unwatchable!!!"
So glad I could help! Sometimes I still shoot in 10 bit now that my newer computer is a bit beefier and it's something to do/learn, but I was really impressed with a good lens in 8 bit!
Nice! Yeah as the creator it's nice to have high quality content you can be proud of. Most of your audience probably wouldn't notice any difference unless you compared it side by side, but if you have the ability to do it and it doesn't slow down your workflow too much, why not right?
Great points you're making. When you have jobs where they want to see the narrator's nose hairs from 3 miles away, they'll probably tell you which camera and lens combo they want you to rent for the project. Other than that, you keep it 8 bit and focus on the important stuff, like becoming a better cameraman and editor. You're absolutely right, sir. Good job!
Thanks for the comment! I mean it's great if you can do both. I like to shoot nest slog at 10 bit now because I have better gear and better knowledge of my editing software. But yeah still the storytelling and lighting is way more important.
@@thesahdstudio can’t nail down a niche. I was doing politics, but I hate that. I tried vlogs and can’t think of things to say. My greatest joy is making shorts of my kittens and narrating their odd behavior. I have a second channel for camera gear+ but that got expensive. I’ll get it sorted out one day.
I know right? Especially on TH-cam. Maybe if you have some giant 4k screens setup side-by-side you could be like "yeah that one looks better", but on it's own a good 8 bit shot will still look awesome.
10 bit vs 8 bit won't show like this.. he did a dumb test because 10 bit means theres more information in the footage so you can manipulate the colors more and lighting more!
While I do agree for a blind test of 8 and 10 bit depth in SDR, HDR's the real differentiator for 10 bit color to shine. What's more, I commend this video for great work explaining the overview, but an SDR 8 bit upload in TH-cam is not going to display any of those 10 bit screenshots properly, I think it's missing the point of why 10 bit is important. Nonetheless, on the argument of productivity and working on TH-cam videos, I 100% agree arguments of needing 10 bit is ridiculous, when even creators like MKBHD have beautiful color grading and crispy footage in SDR. I personally only care for 10 bit HDR with regards to movies and some games.
i miss my a7c. I let it go for an a6700, which is a great camera but i dont even use the 10bit mode. its just not for me and it over heats as well. Keep that a7c, i wish i did..
Thanks! Yeah that's a good idea for something to look out for. 8 bit especially with decent lighting and a good lens looks just fine, especially for TH-cam. It's one thing if you are pixel peeping or just want the highest quality for your hobby... but if you're stuck over which one to buy for your TH-cam channel, it really isn't that big of a deal.
Good stuff! I'm now convinced that I don't really need 10 bit or LOG. Or at least I will put it low on the priority list while shopping for a new camera.
Bravo, Bravo and Bravo!!!! The most informative video regarding this nagging question plus your right, production "crancking vids out" out weights any minor benefits a 10 bit might provide for regular YT content creation. Gracias.
I definitely put WAY too much effort into trying to achieve high quality videos when I really had no clue what I was doing. Hehe. I mean I guess I was learning but I just feel now that I was spinning my wheels trying to work on something that really didn't matter. I eventually figured it out.. it just took a couple years 🤣 Glad you found the video! Thanks for watching 👊
Totally agree. Although since this video I only shoot in 10 bit because I always use proxies now and they are so easy to edit with, so I figure why not. But maybe beginners don't feel comfortable with proxies so I'd still recommend the 8 bit.
If I watch TH-cam trough my seriesX on my QLED TV and set my console to 10 0r 12 bits I get worst results since the native bit of the console it's 8 bits. When my console it's on 8 bits the colors are amazing and 0 banding in videos or games because it goes automatically up to 10 bits when detecting HDR games/content but it will always be able to work with native 8bits in SDR since I don't force on it the 10 or 12 bits and messing everything around. By the way TH-cam it's and it will still remain 8 bits for now for everything so I don't know how you have shots shown in 10bits there since there is no such thing like 10 bit in TH-cam.
Yup! I've laughed at the TH-camrs who for years have convinced themselves and their viewers that 10 bit is better than 8 bit when all their videos are going to end up on TH-cam - an 8 bit, highly compressed video host. PS. 24P gang!
Haha, right?! And you know, JUST for the sake of making it easier on my laptop I have considered trying out 24p. I wonder if it would have any impact in working with the files. Maybe I'll try it for my next video and see if anyone notices the worse quality!! ;) lol
Well the only reason I could see the difference, even after the TH-cam compression is because I was looking for it. 8 bit certainly is good enough for youtube and if you know how to do lighting. Before the entire industry jumped to 10bit people were completely happy with 8bit. I mean I know my friend who has been doing video professionally for five years now and he still take a7iii for shooting celebrities sometimes. 10bit and slog only comes in handy when you are making serious videos for money.
That's interesting about your friend. The lenses really do make the biggest difference don't they? I have been playing around with all the profiles, wrapping my head around all the different gamuts... and it's a lot of fun, but it sure is a rabbit hole. If my gear (computer, monitor etc) was better I would probably use it more often.
I bet using an ND filter and playing with s-log while shooting outside could be really fun... Especially at the golden hour. That ability to pull out all sorts of beautiful color from a sky that doesn't look like too much always blows my mind. Where are you from my friend, with an awesome name like that?!
Yeah you are right. Most TH-camrs (in this niche) do ten x the work required for TH-cam. Everyone wants to be a cinematographer 😂 and forgets that most users watch on a phone.
Yeah, your are right 8bit will do the job most of the times, when you have controlled light and no big grading done in post. But what 10bit is actually for is to have this extra buffer of info which will allow you to correct more during post and then after the correction work is done you again export it in 8bit. Exproting in 10bit is not needed for vloging purposes. Also you need 10bit screen to trully appriciate 10bit (HDR) video. Regards! My rule - if not going to grade in post record in 8bit. If the lightings are not perfect record in 10bit to be on the safe side and after post export to to 8bit again.
Good call! Since I have a good camera and computer now I always record in 10 bit because it's fun to pull out that extra bit of life and colour out of the image. Would I recommend it to newbs? No. Does anyone other than me notice? Probably not. But I enjoy it. But yeah, old me who didn't know what he was doing, spending hours trying to grade underexposed footage thinking I suck... to that guy I'd say don't worry about 10 bit, just learn lighting and have fun!
There IS a difference even with TH-cam compression. The 8 bit footage looked blocky. In fast motion, fast cuts, most people probably wouldn't notice. Most people didn't notice for years before 10 bit cameras became more accessible. At the same time, some people do notice the improvement in overall quality in videos as 10 bit cameras became more accessible. Many high end cell phones do 10 bit video. The bits do matter.
For sure. I think having blank walls and empty space look really bad with compression... whereas when there are more things to distract the camera the overall quality just looks better. Perhaps that has to do with h.264/h.265 compression.
Filming in 10 bit HLG HDR is massively different to 8 bit. Colour accuracy is night and day. I've not noticed banding with 8 bit, though. Tbh as HDR becomes the norm for cameras, 10 bit will be the go to as youtube only accepts 10 bit HDR, though you can convert or export your vid as a 10 bit file. .
It's really interesting learning about all this stuff. Most of the codecs on consumer cameras are really overkill for basic editing and TH-cam videos you know? I think people get so overwhelmed they just don't know what to do which.... is fine. People like you will see videos and be like, man, that could look SO much better, but most people don't think twice about it.
This was the information I looked for :) I tested my A7 CII, and yea, with 10 Bit and 140Mbit, the Files are just very big. And I tested also with 8 Bit, and do'nt see a big difference..
RIght?! I mean it's great fun playing around with s-log in these huge files but, unless you are making a film or content that is specialized it's just not worth the effort for most people, especially just for making TH-cam videos. Nice camera though! You love it?
10 bit looked better. 8 bit i could see noise in the colour roll offs. For editing to work quickly I suggest you use proxy files to edit with and only output 10 bit at the end.
Yeah you got it, that's what I do now. With my zv-e1 I use 10 bit and s-log 3... I just use the proxy generator that comes with Resolve and it makes the proxy files within a reasonable time. Worth doing to make the editing process a breeze anyway. Do you shoot in log?
I could be mistaken, but I feel like the 10 bit (140m) S-Log3 f11 looks far better than all of the others, and the 8 bit straight up having a hard time keeping track of dark areas in the image, causing a lot of flickering.
It was definitely more noticeable working on the computer before the TH-cam compression. I think well there is a big difference unless you're seeing them back to back or side to side the audience doesn't really going to notice. I still like shooting in the highest quality whenever possible personally though but I don't think it's required when starting out.
i am still struggling to find out whether there is any reason to film in 10-bit at all. i have made all kinds of experiments myself, and the only way to see significant difference between 8 and 10-bit is if you do some extreme color grading. i mean, extreme to the point that no video or movie ever would do that much. with some pretty strong color grading you can still sometimes see veeery faint banding, which of course is not acceptable for bigger productions, but it only appears if you do quite heavy exposure/gamma changes. if you do no grading or jus tlight grading, it's pretty much theoretically impossible to see the difference. people that claim they see the difference between 8bit and 10bit right out of camera are lying. the only way they would be able to see that difference is if their eyes are sensitive enough to see the difference between the color #ff6666 and #ff6667 for example. Open some image editor, fill half your picture with one of those color and the other half with the other. then see if you can see the threshold where it switches from one to the other. It is impossible. So again, it is only when we start stretching and expanding the waveform that we can start seeing differences, but I have never really seen anyone on youtube demonstrate a real world, plausiable example where you can actually see a difference
I think like you said in your first sentence, it depends on the reason...will it help you grow a TH-cam channel faster? No. It won't. I was stuck on wanting to get high 4k quality when I started and wasted a lot of energy trying to make my videos look good when I sucked at pretty much everything else. It's fun to tinker with now that I'm getting more experience, but my audience never notices when I play around with different resolutions or bit rates so I can honestly say it really doesn't matter for TH-cam at least.
Really eh? I do shoot exclusively in 10 bit s-log 3 now since I know what I'm doing a bit better and I think it looks a lot nicer... but unless the footage is side-by-side most people probably wouldn't notice it didn't look good.
Yes being red/green colorblind deficiency I can only see 200,000 vs a regular person can see over 1 billion colors when I first started to film and take pictures I use to capture and black and white because I wanted people to feel what I saw. I started on 8 bit I didn’t have confidence to color grade. Using 10 bit overall just feels different to me and gives me versatility I didn’t know I needed.
The only difference I saw was S-LOG3 vs no PP. 8bit vs 10bit is extremely close. Only at 1:44 I see a slight improvement with s-log 10bit vs a-log 8bit.
Right? For most people starting out it's pretty overwhelming to learn how to expose in log then grade it in post etc... it's all fun when you are ready and have the appropriate gear, but when you DON'T, oh boy you sure can spend time optimizing something you have no clue about just spinning your wheels.
@@thesahdstudio It's an icing on top of the cake type skill that takes time to master. Something you can practice on the side, but not something you should rely on. It's important to get the context of your videos right, and that will build your audience more than dry cinematography with no direction or interesting story. Some people on TH-cam find simple things that attract viewers and make videos about them with very simple editing, and they are making thousands of dollars every month from TH-cam, because people consume that kind of content that they chose to make videos about. One guy I know has around a 1000 videos of a go-pro mounted to his head, just taking expensive cars for a test drives every couple of days. Each of his videos have 30,000 views on average within the first week that its posted. That's $90 per video in that first week that its posted. Combine all of the videos he has, and you can bet he's made a decent salary on those low effort videos.
@@SB-ck9gq You are right. It's good advice to a: be consistent and b: do something that you love... but you also do need that certain blend of luck and charisma to make it work. For me, it's tricky to be consistent with content since my interests constantly change. I figure at least by releasing videos even if they don't fit into the overall puzzle, at least I'm sharpening my skills or at least keeping them sharp for when I DO get the time to think of a game plan for the channel. Believe it or not I think that is THE hardest part of all of this and something I consistently struggle with. What do I want this channel to be/offer in 1-3-5 years from now and what do I want out of it. If there's no passion it'll fizzle.
@@thesahdstudio if I could give you some advice, it’s too make streamlined content, you do have the charisma to be successful, but you should pick topics that are the most popular. For example if you’re making video camera reviews, try making videos about cameras that are the most popular today, and get pretty girls or even instagram models and do photoshoots in beautiful settings and use those in your videos, instead of photographing your pets or flowers for example. Also try installing a chrome extension that shows you TH-cam analytics, that will show you what are the best words to use in your tags, video title, and description. It will show which words have more popularity. This helps viewers to find your videos. Another thing is get shoutouts from more famous TH-camrs, and do collabs with more famous TH-camrs. And you could even try to find a TH-camr and pay them to do a shoutout for you. I got a shoutout from another channel that makes videos about buses and transportation, and his channel is not even that famous, but this video got close to 500,000 views in the last year and made me close to $2000 over that year just for that one video that took me 30mins to film and an hour to edit. It definitely payed off the price of my go-pro camera. I’m the same way when it comes to my interest’s shifting a lot and I constantly want to upload something new to my channel that I’m passionate about, but then I remember that my channel is about transportation and driving vehicles, so I can’t upload a scary story about a mountain climber who froze to death while climbing Mount Everest or a girl that drowned while beating the world record for deepest dive on a single breath. Actually I had a channel that was dedicated to that topic and I had gotten a good amount of views from those videos because I narrated them with a very slow and mysterious voice and added sick sound tracks such as “Ross Bungden - Something Wicked” to help with the epic story buildup. In the end I deleted that channel because I felt a little strange making videos about other people’s misfortunes, it’s just against my philosophy or maybe I’m a bit superstitious, but I really enjoyed making those videos and the channel was blowing up at the time.
Really needed to hear this. As a novice trying to get into videography for my youtube channel, it’s really confusing when other youtubers recommend all sorts of picture profiles and camera settings, even though i can barely tell the difference in quality. Yet i have the FOMO feeling that I am not “doing things right” if I’m not tinkering with these settings. Now that I have heard you say this, I can sleep at night in peace 🤣
Oh I've been there my friend. Glad you found the video. Yeah if I could do it all again right now I wouldn't even be bothered if it was at 1080p/4k. Just having some really fast glass (f1.4) is the only thing I would really chase. Everything else doesn't really matter imho! Just make that content great!
Yeah i admit that i can't see the difference in those comparisons but i still shoot 10 bit on my cameras that can do it because with resolve color management it's actually zero extra effort.
Yeah I'm with you nowadays because I can. When you don't have the right gear I don't think it's worth spending the extra money and time learning until you've really had some experience. I think you can get more color out of the 10 bit for sure when you get decent at grading.
Yeah I watch it on a big screen too and can see the difference but not a ton. They all look good enough for TH-cam and would be fine for building a channel either way.
I agree with your conclusion. The reason you will not see much a difference between 10 bit and 8 bit codecs is because Premiere Pro, Media Composer, Resolve, FCPX Edius etc process the effect using 32 bit 4:4:4. You would see a difference between 10 bit and 8 bit if you did color correction using 10 bit hardware vs 8 bit hardware. The video link below might be helpful. th-cam.com/video/zBO0AGx8324/w-d-xo.html
@TechTVusa hey, love the idea but I'm in a pretty swamped period of my life with kiddos and don't have a ton of time. I don't think I'd be very fun to work with at the moment but maybe I'll reach out in the near future! Appreciate the offer 👊
Hello! Thanx 4 vdeo. I’m producing only for yt too. But I like shot in s-log in sunny day for having blue sky and information in shadows without noise. I have a Sony a7c and 8 bit is quiet problematic in these scenarios actually. If I’ll buy Sony a7sIII with 10 bit is it will helps me to avoid noise in shadows in Slog?
Hello my friend! Sorry I took so long responding, we just moved and I've finally setup my computer. Honestly it might help a little but the TH-cam compression will still make it look worse than you want it to look. I just quickly watched this video of yours (th-cam.com/video/6qQN56cWX8A/w-d-xo.html) and my first thought was your white balance is off. Your skin tones look don't look super natural. What picture profile are you using and what lens are you using?
Exactly the Video I've been looking for. I recently bought the Sony A7CII and, as a predominantly still shooter, I am overwhelmed by all the video options, and I don't see much difference between my settings. Plus, most video player software don't even play the 10-bit version. What other settings, like frame and bit rate, do you mostly shoot in?
Nice! Ok, well, it depends on a bit on what computer you would be editing in... I usually shoot in X-AVC S (h.264). That and X-AVC HS (h.265) are more compressed which make them harder to edit smoothly without making proxies. My gear is pretty decent so I'll usually do 10 bit with the highest bit rate possible as it's fun to have the most wiggle room in post. But honestly, the majority of my audience couldn't tell the difference if I shot in the most basic settings with my cameras as long as my cameras were properly exposed. What lens will you be using?!
@@thesahdstudio I have plenty of lenses, mostly the Tamron 28-200 f2.8-5.6 and Sony 24-105 f4 G lens, but also many of my old A-mount gear with the adapter, such as the Minolta 20 2.0, 50 f1.4, 135 f2.8, and many more. My video players on my PC doesn't seem to play the 10 bit codecs and I'm totally unfamiliar with applying color profiles or color grading. I'll have to educate myself on all that. But for now my 8-bit videos look amazing. One thing that surprises me is that there doesn't seem to be a Sony Creators app for Windows for photo and video editing that includes all the codecs and tools needed specifically for Sony cameras.
Thanks for watching! So I read recently that TH-cam DOES support 10 bit video but you have to export it with HDR metadata. Once the kiddos go back to school (next month) I will have so much more time to get testing which is what I love to do. You DO need HDR supported devices to view the 10 bit content but I will be curious if it changes how banding looks compared to normal TH-cam uploads. Here's the link fyi: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7126552?hl=en#zippy=%2Cupload-requirements%2Chdr-video-file-encoding%2Chdr-metadata
Yeah I hear you. Halfway through the video I show some shots outside but not of a human face. Maybe I'll do this video again in the near future include more clips. Thanks for the suggestion!
I found in some settings the difference is hard to notice, but other settings definitely 10 bit makes the scene better, like that shot on the sculpture of the cat. I am shooting on smartphone and the 10-bit shots are supposed to be properly converted when another platform cannot process it properly, but instead the videos become washed out :( I still wanna keep using 10-bit though :(
I think the better the camera/lens the more the higher quality footage really matters. I'd rather have a nice lens with 8 bit footage you know what I mean? Just shoot what is easy and looks good enough for now. But yeah, it's fun to shoot in the highest quality possible. I would too.
I'm not sure if I would call color grading basic. It's a lot to understand when you are new into the world of videography... but like you said, it's not necessary for most people who are just getting into TH-cam.
Something else to consider if you are on a Ryzen or Intel platform. Ryzen does not support 10bit 4.2.2. Intel does. For example if you shoot on Canon R5, R6 with C log. Good luck Editing it in premiere on a Ryzen platform. For 80% of people 8 bit is enough. Always expose for the highlights and you can bring up the shadows a little bit to get that extra detail.
For sure! In my latest videos I have been experimenting with Intel Quick Sync which supposedly supports 4.2.2 but I have to say it's not as good as I was expecting. I think the raw horsepower of the latest CPU's is enough to edit smoothly in h.264, but if you want to edit in h.265 you should probably make proxies.
Thank you for your video. I also doubted whether I would record 10 bit S-Log 3 (Sony A7 iv and A6700) but you are right that you can use your time better to learn to edit better and make good videos. I'm out, also continue in 8-bit and no PP. 🙋
Thanks for watching! I think that's just it... I'm not against 10 bit and shooting in LOG, I just hate they way it's marketed towards noobs. I wasted so much time, but lessons learned and hopefully this helps others remember what's important! 👊
@@thesahdstudioi totally agree with you, the way youtubers marketed the 10 bit footage as if you gonna be an instant professional, w/o knowing that you still have to work it out and its trial and error process
@@gailguardian1203 Exactly! Is it great? Sure. But so is 8 bit. A good lens shooting with 8 bit is much better than a meh lens in 10. At least that's been my experience.
Oh yeah I could see how you'd want at LEAST 10 bit if you're a business or do commercial work. There definitely is a difference. But for a lot of creators who are just pumping out vids on Tik Tok or IG, I don't think it's really necessary.
10 bit does look a little better. Does it matter? Probably not for TH-cam, but it's nice to floor a sports car you own, or an A7IV, it's part of the toy factor. You're editing on a laptop. I have zero issues on a desktop that's a few years old but was planned for 4K editing (32G, RTX2060, i8700K that I could still overclock) . 10 bit runs smoothly. Oh and remember I said I'll sell the A7IV in favor of an FX30? Well, I won't, I'd only gain 4K/120 and since this camera is video centric, I see it dropping price faster than the hybrid A7IV, which incidentally already took a small hit on the used market, while the FX30 hasn't yet. So I would lose double. I might pick one up later though, If I get tired of the ZV-E10 as a b-cam 🤣
You know this laptop shreds pretty hard. I can edit 4k 10-bit files and it edits fast and renders my 8 minute talking head videos in like 5 minutes. The problem is just when I start adding any effects is all. And yeah you're right. I probably will still shoot in 10 bit with different log profiles just for something to do and to see if my audience notices... but I don't think I need to on my other non-camera related channel.
@@thesahdstudio That laptop is a beast then😎 I haven't played much with special effects yet, I just remember that even on 8bit footage, the computer easily gets on its knees with some of these. I remember something with proxies and pre-rendering, and yes 10 bit should be even worse 🙄😂
Glad you found the video! I really spent a lot more money than I needed to. A good lens and ok camera is MUCH better than a kit lens and a good camera. At least in my opinion!
@@thesahdstudio yeah I agree! I got the sony zv e10 and sigma 16mm F1.4, I was thinking about getting the mark ii version but its another 500$ 🤮 thank you for responding, I subscribed :D
Why comparing 8bit vs 10bit with no post production? The advantage of 10bit is that you have more space for post production. If we need it or not is another story
I applied a basic color space transform but yeah, didn't take the footage and really apply customization to it which like you said, is the major advantage of shooting in log. I think whether or not it is worth using especially for new creators was kind of the point of the video and what I addressed at the end! I felt like better story telling and learning more editing skills are probably more valuable than color when it comes to TH-cam anyway. But if you enjoy it then go nuts.... I just wasted a lot of time fiddling not knowing what I was doing myself!
Haha that's awesome. Can't wait to watch that movie again, my kiddos are almost at the right age. Now that you mention it, it reminds of the original Super Mario Bros movie too: i.insider.com/61572f7db414c10018635618?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp lol
So heres a situation, I have just got a LG C3, after buying many cables and trying lots of experiments i finally got my image stable at 4K 60HZ by lowering the colour to 8bit RGB down from 10 bit because unknowingly to me my lenovo gaming 3 rtx 3050 laptop only has hdmi 2.0 which at 4K 60HZ is only stable at 8bit, do I really upgrade to a hdmi 2.1 laptop again or just be happy, ethier way Mandolorian 4K remux on Kodi looks amazing, yes 10 bit has slightly a bit more colour deph but it does still look very nice.
lol ugh, what rollercoaster! That's rad you figured it out and got to the bottom of it.... but that's also annoying to find a bottleneck you cannot change easily. Is it mostly for content consumption or are you gaming on there? Tough call eh... tough call indeed.
@@thesahdstudio thanks for replying, a bit of both tbh, I have a PS5 I mostly use but RDR2 stuck at 30fps kills me so I play it on my laptop because I can alter settings to get 60fps, since messaging you I have managed to push it again this time to the brink YCBR444 10 Bit limited actually looking better than 8bit RGB and so far so good, 2 movies in and no distortions, others on Reddit have had same issues in LG C models with 30 series graphics cards or bellow, I think Nvidia didn't include some of the 30 series GPU's with a hdmi 2.1 port so people set HDR to the highest and keep having the same problem
Right?! I mean, if you're a professional and people will be critiquing your work, sure. But for most of us, content is still king! Have an awesome day 👊
You can shoot 10 bit then when you export out, export it as 8bit, this is to prevent color banding when you're doing alot of color manipulation. Is there a difference? Of course! but only if you know what. you are doing.
If you were uploading to TH-cam would you just leave the export at 10 bit though? No reason to scale it down as TH-cam will compress it anyway? I was just doing 8 bit as it was easier to directly work on. Lately I've just been shooting 10 bit and using proxies (then exporting at 10 bit).
Honestly, maybe a little? If the content was good and you were paying attention to the story you wouldn't even notice... but if it was a tech demo, side-by-side showing you the difference you would. If you were buying a camera and the different was thousands of dollars (which it is to a lot of us) I would say save the money and learn the gear. 1080p 8-bit with a good lens upscaled will still look way better than 10-bit 4k with a kit lens or someone who doesn't know what they're doing. That's just my opinion of course!
Great video and just what I needed to see. I have been using ShotCut video editor and now I have a much better laptop I am looking to move to either CapCut or Da Vinci but I have heard that DaVinci (free) will only handle 8 bit. I have a decent Canon DSLR that will shoot 4k video and a Google pixel that I shoot my video on in 4k , so i am doing some home work to try and best guess what to go for.
Thanks for watching! DaVinci Resolve is fantastic software and it really depends on what your goals are with your video editing but it might be worth sticking with since it's so comprehensive... I think if you are working with your own personal stuff or for TH-cam 8 bit is enough. Random question, are you editing using a Window Machine or a Mac?
@thesahdstudio I have a new MSI Prestige 16 Studio laptop running win11. I am very impressed with it so far. I have since discovered that DaVinci (free) doesn't come with auto captions which i think would be a great time saver for me. My channel is rather niche and so i believe difficult to grow which is why I am only at 400 subs in 2 years. I am a one man band and have to do everything myself. I don't really help myself as I am a bit of a perfectionist with everything so everything takes way too much time. I would like to grow my channel to the point where I get something back from all of the (currently) free advertising with the adds attached to my content
@@itsalldoable Sounds like a nice machine. Yeah I hear you... making your workflow efficient and having the right software to do that makes a big difference. That was never a priority for me so I can't really weigh in on it. It seems like you've had a few good videos so hopefully you can lean in on what's working and continue to grow. Good luck!
Appreciate the comment 👊 and I know right? I still record in 10 bit just because I use proxies and it edits very smoothly when I do. But if it didn't I would have zero problem recording in 8 bit again. I can guarantee no one in my audience would notice!
Haha, thanks man! Yes, the a7iv, usually with no picture profiles. I tweak the settings in post a little... I'm always tweaking my camera and changing my lenses though in the search of good looking videos. What lens are you using!?
Hey man, great video! I just started a TH-cam channel myself and currently using the A7iv as my main camera but I’d like to add a 2nd camera for additional angle as it’s just me. Do you think the zv-e10 would pair well with the a7iv? I’m recording in 4/30 only, 10 bit. No color grading - just select white balance. My other consideration is the zv-e1 with the main attraction being the “auto-framing” feature - perhaps they could make my videos more interesting? But maybe it would be a waste as I’m mainly sitting in 1 spot. You can see my current work on the channel. Any feedback is highly appreciated. Thanks man!
Thanks! And hey... more gear is always fun and exciting. Do you NEED it? No. I personally would prefer to have both full-frame cameras myself as it makes it a little easier to expose your shots... especially since you're indoors with relatively low light. The zv-e10 might fall apart and look super grainy if you don't really know what you're doing. The full-frame with a decent lens will look like butter. Now, with that being said what I would do if I were you is record the same song with the same outfit etc from a number of different spots. Record one in your usual shot, record again with it zoomed in just to the guitar, record another shot from the other side of another maybe cool/flattering singing shot for the chorus or something then just stitch together the video in post to make it look like there's 3 or 4 cameras. You know? You COULD use your phone in there as well for a different angle... but until you really start gaining some traction I think learning your gear, learning how to frame the shots to be more interesting using the gear you have will be enough to grow. Ultimately it's the music that has to be good right... the content... the audio... then visually if you can make it interesting people will want to stick around. I think multiple angles that are wide enough where you can crop in and zoom on each one in multiple ways will work for you. Your first shot for example, you start wide then slowly zoom it in... then you cut to your hands strumming, then back out to the wide shot... then switch to the side shot etc. Sorry, I went on a side tangent but I think what you have made is really good, and with a bit of creativity with what you already have it will look awesome!!
@@thesahdstudio thank you so much for your input - you're right, right now I'm still just playing around with different ideas, gear, settings, etc - I'm no expert in video production - just your everyday guy who's passionate about music and want to share it with people. Good luck with your channel - I'm looking forward to more content!
Right?! I watch all my content on my 55 inch OLED TV and I'm always happy with the quality. Lately I have been playing around with 10 bit because it makes it a little more fun to play with in post... There is more free done with the colors and shadows etc. But nobody cares about that except for me lol
That was a big help for me. I bought the fx30 today then i saw the crazy prices of the sd cards. 8 bit is perfect for me so now i can safe a lot of money!
buying fx30 and using 8 bit is really sad. your camera gives image same image of a lot worse cameras when you do that. you can record 10 bit also with v60 or v90 cards, they are not too expensive. believe me difference is huge (I also use fx30)
@@bahadirozer hey thank you for your information. I use a v60 card, it covers all of my favourite settings. 10bit is really mo problem for me with this card.
Exactly. Although now that I'm rocking a MacBook and shooting in the SI codec, editing is much quicker so I'm leaving it in 10 bit since I'm finally learning what I'm doing! Necessary though? Meh.
Keep in mind, you're not even capable of displaying the over 1 billion colors of 10bit if you don't have a 10bit display. To put this into perspective, 8bit is almost 16.8 million. It's a huge amount of color, and almost anywhere people are viewing most videos, they're not 1, displayed in 10bit, and 2, if they were, they're probably not being viewed on 10bit screens. 8 bit is enough for most people. 10bit is primarily used in professional design and video for professional output
For sure, well put. It's interesting that lately I've gotten a bit better at shooting in 10-bit s-log 3, and even on my 8 bit monitor the footage does seem like it has way nicer, richer color. Does anyone else other than me notice it? Probably not. And is it worth the extra effort? Again probably not. But I enjoy doing it.
@@thesahdstudio where in videos do you see the difference specifically? It's not uncommon for things like large areas of gradients, like walls or light spills to look smoother instead of having stepping. Like recording and editing in 4k but exporting to 1080p, the difference will be subtle, but can be noticable. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and findings! :)
@@Joehirst Definitely the gradient and saturation of background light on the walls. I think my skin tones have a little more saturation as well... but it's one of those things, maybe I've just gotten better, maybe it's just the better gear I have now... it's tough to say for sure. Do you have a 10 bit setup? If so what picture profile do you shoot in?
I'm sitting here looking at this video on a 120hz 10 bit monitor and I can't see a difference other than slog3 has more noise and less dynamic range in the dark areas creating more contrast. That last shot of the tree in 8bit no picture profile looks the best to me. Who knows though. Shoot in whatever, just make good content. That's more important anyways.One could argue that 8bit is easier to color grade because you're managing 16 million colors instead of 1 billion colors.
That's a great point. It's such a point of diminishing returns once you get to that level. It's amazing how much time and energy I put into that only to realize it doesn't really matter... at least not when it comes to making TH-cam videos, which is all I'm trying to do. Like you said Story is #1!
Not necessarily. It does compress it though. It's a bit vague, but through my own testing and that of other commenters it seems that it's best to upload in the highest quality you can then let TH-cam optimize it. This seems to yield better and sometimes surprisingly results (some commenters have said when they upscale their 1080p to 4k video it actually looks AND sounds better).
It looks like TH-cam does support HDR 10/12 bit but you have to render it within a supported container and the viewer obviously has to watch a device capable of HDR. If you don't render this way, like you said, TH-cam will convert the video to a more basic/standard color range. But if you wouldn't have asked that question I wouldn't have known that so thanks! Answer here: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7126552?sjid=342307121170177469-NA#zippy=%2Cupload-requirements%2Chdr-metadata
I searched for something else but your vid came up as first result. Imma shoot my question anyways in hopes you can help me find best settings for my dual monitor setup: I have two Acer 27's 1440ps one is 144hz the other is 240hz. They 144hz suppports 8bpc only (as its the only option in nvidia control panel) while the 240hz supports both 8 & 10 bpc modes. I noticed that my 240hz goes black when im alt tabbing from a full screen video/game when in 10bpc while the 2nd monitor is connected, didn't black out when I only had the 240hz connected as single monitor. Do I loose a lot of color when setting my 240hz or can I live with the 8bpc unified between the two monitors? Also whats best for refresh rate on my secondary 144hz monitor; keep it at 144 or drop it to 60hz as I would like to keep my main monitor @ 240hz since I game on it. I only use the secondary 144hz for browsing and while working on excel/word.
I was deciding between the GH5 and a6500 for hybrid use but its a though decision. I was leaning towards the GH5 mainly for its 10 Bit video capability. However, is it really worth the extra $200-300?
I think it really depends on what you're using it for. What's your main goal with the camera? Before you buy the body make sue you check out what kind of lenses are available. I'm a huge fan of buying used... you might have a LOT more options for the Sony. I'm not sure but that's been my experience. It's a bit of a safer/more robust ecosystem.
@@thesahdstudio I'm split 50/50 between video and photo. Sony seems to have the edge with better autofocus, low light performance (bigger sensor), and great software support for mobile and PC. Plus, I'm really into the large selection of E-mount lenses. But I'm still unsure if the 10-bit feature is worth it considering the GH5s cons compared to the a6500.
@@maesl69 Yeah it's a tough call for sure. For me, going up to full-frame was the feature I really wanted the most as I found I ended up shooting a lot more low light than I initially thought, and it made a massive difference for me. If I was you, I would probably buy whichever used one I could that's the best deal on marketplace, use it for awhile, then decide if the camera is enough for you. If not, sell it for what you pay and move on. That feature might not even be that important once you use it... or maybe it is. I know it's tough when you get analysis paralysis. You just need to get something and start creating!
@@thesahdstudio Thank you for the fantastic advice! But generally speaking, how big is the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit really? I've never seen a direct comparison.
@maesl69 well I tried to showcase it in this video. It definitely has richer colors when you're shooting in log. I definitely made it a priority to get a camera that could do it but honestly with a decent lens 8-bit film is more than fine especially for what I'm doing trying to build a TH-cam channel. If you really care about quality for your own personal entertainment then I totally get it but if you just want to record great videos of your family and friends or build a TH-cam channel I'd save the money.
I would like to do this test again now that I have become better at grading but yeah, combined with TH-cam compression, there's not a lot of reason to shoot in 10 bit. I still do it now that I have even better gear just to squeeze the most color possible out of it, but does anyone other than me notice it? Probably not.
I just use the effects that coming with DaVinci Resolve Studio otherwise I try and edit the effect/graphic I want myself. Nothing too complicated but once you learn the software it's pretty easy to use. Those are some pretty insane cameras you are considering, although quite different! I would love to play around with the R6 2. I love Canon colours out of camera. The Sony is just a MONSTER photo camera. That would be too many megapixels for me but I'm a video guy. I think the Canon would probably be better value and more well-rounded if you aren't a photographer. Just my two cents!
Awesome! Thanks for the insights. I use Logic Pro X in editing my videos. Video guy as well here. I’m looking at if I’m purchasing a new camera, it would be like a kinda do a bit of all and looking for long term. But the R6 MK ll seems to be a great one to choose
Yeah now that I've changed my gear since making this video I have been running 10 bit s-log 3. Is it necessary? Well... I think it looks better. Would anyone other than me care? Still probably not.
yeah i mean, all looked good not one looked bad or so. the one with 10bit no pp, was the first that stood out as the most natural or Balanced looking in my op ...i mean in germany we would say "Meckern auf hohem Niveau"@@thesahdstudio
I went from 8-bit on my ZV-1 to 10-bit on my A7iV and you can tell the difference. But 8 doesn't look bad. You would think there would be more of a difference given the amount of more colors 10-bit has. Also I exported a 10-bit vid in 8-bit one time to save space (MP4 vs AppleProRes422) and you could see the 8-bit video's color's were muted. But you need to be viewing in a proper monitor, def not just a phone. iPhone Video and Pics look great on a phone, put them on a nice monitor .. not so much. The new 13 Pro 48mp in RAW photos hold up better. I think No PP on the A7iv is good, but I like S-Cinetone quite a bit more and will not go back to No PP. As for SLOG3 I think it's meant to be used with a LUT. You slap on conversion LUT on it and then another LUT after that to get the style you want. If you aren't adding a LUT to SLOG3 you might as well just roll with S-Cinetone. The dynamic range is similar. S-Cinetone is pretty much useable right out of camera. If I was you I wouldn't worry about doing 10-bit if your computer struggles with it, and it takes up more space. ESPECIALLY for videos inside of yourself speaking... BUT if you went on a vacation, you should considering doing 10-bit and S-Cinetone or SLOG3.
Yeah that's interesting stuff. My first tinkerings with the profiles, S-log3 looked the best but I don't really know what I'm doing with Cinetone/HLG. Do I need to color space transform those to rec709 too? Do the luts do that with the s-log also? I still have a lot to learn. And I agree with the first part you said too, when you go from 8 bit to 10, the number of colors is just nuts... I guess those colors are more transitional colors? Or really, colors you notice on special, better calibrated screens?
I dont see any difference at all! All your photos look 100% the same for me. With my monitor I can only use 120hz with 10bits but 170hz with 8bits. Since I dont see any difference at all I dont see the piont going for 10bits.
Right?! Since this video I have gotten a little better at working with 10 but so perhaps I will do an update to this video and we'll see if you can tell then. But yeah, with TH-cam compression... working more efficient seems the right choice.
Right? To be fair since making this video I have better gear and skills so I think if I were to do this test again (which I should!) it might look a little different.
@thesahdstudio If anyone is reading this, hopefully this information helps in the whole "bit" conversation. Shooting raw (for me) revealed the noise improvements of 12-bit over 10-bit. Despite everyone using 8bit+frc monitors. Not just a color choice. Now I can't go backwards, everything is 12-bit raw. Upscaled or Compressed, it's way better. 14-bit is still too unstable for (data-writing) highlights and crashes the camera. 12-bit is just beauty in low light or dealing with noise. Tried REC709-A output color space to match Davinci Wide Gamut timeline, using davinci yrgb. Helped match the timeline to exports. If ever "redoing" this type of video, it is worth noting for less experienced users who lack a calibrated monitor. I have a calibrated monitor (now), and render differently using that...
but this was/is a great method for seeing what exports will look like for youtube (matching timeline to renders). A little extra ... A bright day, for a long video, i might use 10-bit to ease the data stream (to the write buffer of the camera, as I am limited by data-write speeds) Mostly due to highlights/over exposures appearing more frequently (on a bright day) than underexposures. A lot of other cameras deal with 10-bit noise internally, with built in profiles, their own raw codec, so this information varies from camera to camera. I am not a user of log, or profiles, so it's worth noting... YMMV (your mileage may vary)
Na. It's not really worth it for TH-cam. Although since creating this video I have gotten a lot better at shooting/exposing for LOG and grading my videos. Even now though does it really matter for building my TH-cam channel? Meh.
@@thesahdstudio depends what kind of content drives your channel. If you like at creators like Gawx or Natalie Lynn they definitely put value in the color grading process. It really depends.
@@graphikeye Oh yeah, for sure! Early on my TH-cam journey I was overthinking my gear and not focusing on the art. I got hung up on things like shooting in log etc... so this video was to remind people that if they LIKE to do that stuff, cool! But you don't NEED that stuff (10 bit etc) to get started and have a dope channel. Those are cool channels by the way!
Right? My takeaway was TH-cam compresses things so much it's really not worth spend so much on gear if your goal is TH-cam, like mine is. Thanks for sharing!
@@mex5341 Right? What do you think then... for TH-camrs starting out maybe looking to buy their first camera. Should they future-proof their purchase with buying a camera capable of 10 bit? Or not to worry for the first while
im planning to get a7s II as first fullframe video/photography camera for dirt cheap so is it worth canceling my order?? i was using a 500d so is it worthy, or buying any APS_c camera??that can do 10bit, for night racing videos and photos
Well how did your 500d perform? Are you happy with it? I don't know what dirt cheap is, and the a7sii is a little long in the tooth but it looks pretty awesome. Full-frame... can shoot at 4k30fps... I mean yeah that camera should blow the doors off your 500d! I'm not sure what lens you'll get but, full-frame in that atmosphere will give you SO much light, it's awesome!
@thesahdstudio for stills, it's phenomenal. but lacking so much on the video recording I got great lenses. i hope to pass it on to next camera sigma 70-200 2.8
@@sadeek2009 hmmm. Yeah having to buy lenses for your new Sony WILL make it cost a lot more than just the body. You might be able to sell the lens though then make the switch? Does that Sony come with a kit lens?
Haha, well I have upgraded since then! I got a sweet deal though I am still windows. I reviewed the monitor on my other (main) channel, The SAHD Life. A 49" monitor lol!! I still use proxies but when I do it's like butter and creates them super quick. I have considered just switching everything to Apple though... it'd be costly... have you always been in the ecosystem with phones/computers etc?
@@thesahdstudio no I was windows mostly but m1 MacBook is super cheap and powerful to edit, intel processors are nowhere near apple in terms of price and power
Oop, I put the wrong text in the 8 Bit talking head clip! It's No PP in the 3rd talking shot, then the bottom left in the 4 head shot comparison. And hey, thanks again for watching :) Welcome aboard if you're new here!
This is what I needed for my soul, thanks bud😁
Haha thanks for the comment. Appreciate it 👊
If you are working in SDR, you will not see any difference between the same source material shot in 10 or 8 bit once uploaded to TH-cam. This is because TH-cam is 8 bit with all of its SDR streams, which basically truncates/converts the 10 bit colour range to 8 bit anyway. Post production is a different story if you want to push and pull the picture, then 10 bit is generally more suitable. Although, even if you export those results to 10 bit and upload to TH-cam, again, the colour range will be truncated to 8 bit by TH-cam for SDR and you will see banding that wasn’t there in the 10 bit source after TH-cam’s compression. This all applies to any target that ultimately transcodes and re-compresses to 8 bit. Cheers, Dave.
Great explanation! Thanks for that. It's funny how I learned that AFTER I spent thousands of dollars on cameras and lenses trying to get the highest quality possible just for TH-cam.... An older camera with a great lens shooting in 8 bit 1080p upscaling to 4k would probably look just as good for what I'm doing. Aw well. My new 24mm G-master lens does look pretty great (haven't used much on this channel yet but on my other *sahdlife*), so far no real regrets.
Yes, an older 8 bit camera with good glass can easily look just as good as a modern 10 bit camera and not just for TH-cam stuff. The whole 10 bit thing has been massively misunderstood and misreported on TH-cam and many people simply talk about something that their video doesn’t even show, even established “camera” channels get this wrong. Here’s a video that may explain things a bit better th-cam.com/video/UMQWSgEmPBM/w-d-xo.html I’ve also got some upscaling and chroma sub sampling examples on the channel. Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry Awesome, will check it out. Thanks for the back and forth. Always love chatting and learning in the comment 👊
This comment should be pinned since it's talking facts and it's 💯% right.
Thank you for this man! I was just about to pay $300 for the Davinci Resolve Studio, thinking I'd get better youtube quality, but if it downgrades 10 bit back to 8, there's no point in me upgrading.
Most of the time 8bit is plenty if you aren't pushing the colours/exposure too much in editing. However it's that one time you film in 8bit and you see colour banding just because you set your background light a bit dimmer than usual and there's more of a gradient, then you switch to 10bit and keep it there :) (that's what happened to me).
Hahah yeah, but you are the only one who notices. lol
Naw, I do notice it on peoples videos when I'm watching on my big screen, which happens a lot... and they have a really plain background. But if the story is good enough I don't care... unless I'm looking at my own videos though in which case I'm thinking "this is unwatchable!!!"
@@thesahdstudio haha, too true!
Excellent. I was looking for this
So glad I could help! Sometimes I still shoot in 10 bit now that my newer computer is a bit beefier and it's something to do/learn, but I was really impressed with a good lens in 8 bit!
Such an underrated creator :) Great video style, you should have much more followers!
Aw thanks for the support! I really appreciate it 👊
You make some good points. I just switched to 10-bit Color or my Gaming Videos and I like the depth color in my 4K Videos.
Nice! Yeah as the creator it's nice to have high quality content you can be proud of. Most of your audience probably wouldn't notice any difference unless you compared it side by side, but if you have the ability to do it and it doesn't slow down your workflow too much, why not right?
Great points you're making. When you have jobs where they want to see the narrator's nose hairs from 3 miles away, they'll probably tell you which camera and lens combo they want you to rent for the project. Other than that, you keep it 8 bit and focus on the important stuff, like becoming a better cameraman and editor. You're absolutely right, sir. Good job!
Thanks for the comment! I mean it's great if you can do both. I like to shoot nest slog at 10 bit now because I have better gear and better knowledge of my editing software. But yeah still the storytelling and lighting is way more important.
Thanks for the great compare man! gave me a look at it
Glad you found the video 👊 Thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for this dude, super helpful ❤
I'm glad you found the video! Thanks for watching 👊
this is what i need. thanks 👍
My man! How are things going?! Have you made any changes to your setup since we last spoke?!
@@thesahdstudio yes i think my setup is better than before after i learn a lot. thanks for all your advice 😍😍
Your energy is so good. I wish I could have a quarter of your on-camera presence.
Aww you just made my day! Thanks for the great comment :) How are things going with your channel?
@@thesahdstudio can’t nail down a niche. I was doing politics, but I hate that. I tried vlogs and can’t think of things to say. My greatest joy is making shorts of my kittens and narrating their odd behavior. I have a second channel for camera gear+ but that got expensive. I’ll get it sorted out one day.
Switching to 8 bit right away!! Thanks much :)
Haha glad I could help! 👊
in a blind test no one will be able to tell the difference
I know right? Especially on TH-cam. Maybe if you have some giant 4k screens setup side-by-side you could be like "yeah that one looks better", but on it's own a good 8 bit shot will still look awesome.
10 bit vs 8 bit won't show like this.. he did a dumb test because 10 bit means theres more information in the footage so you can manipulate the colors more and lighting more!
The point of the video is that you need to just make content and nobody cares what bit rate it is
Blind test 😂😅
While I do agree for a blind test of 8 and 10 bit depth in SDR, HDR's the real differentiator for 10 bit color to shine.
What's more, I commend this video for great work explaining the overview, but an SDR 8 bit upload in TH-cam is not going to display any of those 10 bit screenshots properly, I think it's missing the point of why 10 bit is important.
Nonetheless, on the argument of productivity and working on TH-cam videos, I 100% agree arguments of needing 10 bit is ridiculous, when even creators like MKBHD have beautiful color grading and crispy footage in SDR. I personally only care for 10 bit HDR with regards to movies and some games.
Thank you sir for your content🎉 this enlighten me a lot to stick woth my old a7c than upgrading to zv e1
Glad you found the video! The a7c is an awesome camera! I still would like to have one as my on the go setup as I love the size.
i miss my a7c. I let it go for an a6700, which is a great camera but i dont even use the 10bit mode. its just not for me and it over heats as well. Keep that a7c, i wish i did..
@@slickytru5 It overheats eh? Like shooting 4k60 for long periods kind of thing? I'd be really curious to hear more about how it overheated on you.
Awesome comparison. I think skin tones are the best way to show differences so great job and I totally agree with your conclusion!
Thanks! Yeah that's a good idea for something to look out for. 8 bit especially with decent lighting and a good lens looks just fine, especially for TH-cam. It's one thing if you are pixel peeping or just want the highest quality for your hobby... but if you're stuck over which one to buy for your TH-cam channel, it really isn't that big of a deal.
Thank yo this was very helpful.. Great comparison and input
Glad you found the video 👊 thanks for the comment!
Good stuff! I'm now convinced that I don't really need 10 bit or LOG. Or at least I will put it low on the priority list while shopping for a new camera.
Yeah that's just it... a great lens is more important than your camera to be totally honest. What are you considering for a camera?
Bravo, Bravo and Bravo!!!! The most informative video regarding this nagging question plus your right, production "crancking vids out" out weights any minor benefits a 10 bit might provide for regular YT content creation. Gracias.
I definitely put WAY too much effort into trying to achieve high quality videos when I really had no clue what I was doing. Hehe. I mean I guess I was learning but I just feel now that I was spinning my wheels trying to work on something that really didn't matter. I eventually figured it out.. it just took a couple years 🤣 Glad you found the video! Thanks for watching 👊
Thanks for this video!
Really appreciate the comment, thanks 👊
Great video. I personally think it’s splitting hairs in terms of TH-cam. On my 4k TV, some of the 8bit shots had fewer artifacts than the 10bit.
Totally agree. Although since this video I only shoot in 10 bit because I always use proxies now and they are so easy to edit with, so I figure why not. But maybe beginners don't feel comfortable with proxies so I'd still recommend the 8 bit.
If I watch TH-cam trough my seriesX on my QLED TV and set my console to 10 0r 12 bits I get worst results since the native bit of the console it's 8 bits. When my console it's on 8 bits the colors are amazing and 0 banding in videos or games because it goes automatically up to 10 bits when detecting HDR games/content but it will always be able to work with native 8bits in SDR since I don't force on it the 10 or 12 bits and messing everything around. By the way TH-cam it's and it will still remain 8 bits for now for everything so I don't know how you have shots shown in 10bits there since there is no such thing like 10 bit in TH-cam.
Yup! I've laughed at the TH-camrs who for years have convinced themselves and their viewers that 10 bit is better than 8 bit when all their videos are going to end up on TH-cam - an 8 bit, highly compressed video host.
PS. 24P gang!
Haha, right?! And you know, JUST for the sake of making it easier on my laptop I have considered trying out 24p. I wonder if it would have any impact in working with the files. Maybe I'll try it for my next video and see if anyone notices the worse quality!! ;) lol
Well the only reason I could see the difference, even after the TH-cam compression is because I was looking for it. 8 bit certainly is good enough for youtube and if you know how to do lighting. Before the entire industry jumped to 10bit people were completely happy with 8bit. I mean I know my friend who has been doing video professionally for five years now and he still take a7iii for shooting celebrities sometimes. 10bit and slog only comes in handy when you are making serious videos for money.
That's interesting about your friend. The lenses really do make the biggest difference don't they?
I have been playing around with all the profiles, wrapping my head around all the different gamuts... and it's a lot of fun, but it sure is a rabbit hole.
If my gear (computer, monitor etc) was better I would probably use it more often.
In controlled lighting, there is no difference at all. But in harsh light 10 bit slog have lot better dynamic range.
I bet using an ND filter and playing with s-log while shooting outside could be really fun... Especially at the golden hour. That ability to pull out all sorts of beautiful color from a sky that doesn't look like too much always blows my mind.
Where are you from my friend, with an awesome name like that?!
@@thesahdstudio I am from finland. And there Canon is lot cheaper than sony. 😁 R7 is 1600€, FX 30 is 2400€. And R6 is 2150€ and a7iv 2800€.
I'm half Fin. And that's crazy with Canon prices... will the R6mii be a more reasonable price than the Sony A7iv even you think? That'd be tempting :)
Thanks ❤❤
Thanks for the comment! 👊
Yeah you are right. Most TH-camrs (in this niche) do ten x the work required for TH-cam. Everyone wants to be a cinematographer 😂 and forgets that most users watch on a phone.
Exactly right? We all need better stories / headlines etc... not just better quality.
Thank you for this video.
Glad you found it man! 👊
Yeah, your are right 8bit will do the job most of the times, when you have controlled light and no big grading done in post. But what 10bit is actually for is to have this extra buffer of info which will allow you to correct more during post and then after the correction work is done you again export it in 8bit. Exproting in 10bit is not needed for vloging purposes. Also you need 10bit screen to trully appriciate 10bit (HDR) video. Regards! My rule - if not going to grade in post record in 8bit. If the lightings are not perfect record in 10bit to be on the safe side and after post export to to 8bit again.
Good call! Since I have a good camera and computer now I always record in 10 bit because it's fun to pull out that extra bit of life and colour out of the image. Would I recommend it to newbs? No. Does anyone other than me notice? Probably not. But I enjoy it.
But yeah, old me who didn't know what he was doing, spending hours trying to grade underexposed footage thinking I suck... to that guy I'd say don't worry about 10 bit, just learn lighting and have fun!
There IS a difference even with TH-cam compression. The 8 bit footage looked blocky. In fast motion, fast cuts, most people probably wouldn't notice. Most people didn't notice for years before 10 bit cameras became more accessible. At the same time, some people do notice the improvement in overall quality in videos as 10 bit cameras became more accessible. Many high end cell phones do 10 bit video. The bits do matter.
For sure. I think having blank walls and empty space look really bad with compression... whereas when there are more things to distract the camera the overall quality just looks better. Perhaps that has to do with h.264/h.265 compression.
You cried. I subbed. 😢
🤣 Welcome to the channel! Glad to have you 👊
Haha..I wish you made some videos about android apps like mcpro24fps or motioncam.
@@atf56 I'm not familiar with those apps but they look sweet. So you are trying to make your phone videos look sweet?!
Filming in 10 bit HLG HDR is massively different to 8 bit. Colour accuracy is night and day. I've not noticed banding with 8 bit, though.
Tbh as HDR becomes the norm for cameras, 10 bit will be the go to as youtube only accepts 10 bit HDR, though you can convert or export your vid as a 10 bit file.
.
It's really interesting learning about all this stuff. Most of the codecs on consumer cameras are really overkill for basic editing and TH-cam videos you know? I think people get so overwhelmed they just don't know what to do which.... is fine. People like you will see videos and be like, man, that could look SO much better, but most people don't think twice about it.
This was the information I looked for :)
I tested my A7 CII, and yea, with 10 Bit and 140Mbit, the Files are just very big. And I tested also with 8 Bit, and do'nt see a big difference..
RIght?! I mean it's great fun playing around with s-log in these huge files but, unless you are making a film or content that is specialized it's just not worth the effort for most people, especially just for making TH-cam videos. Nice camera though! You love it?
By the Way, which effects did you used on Min 3:10? Looks cool!
I believe it's called Edge Detect in the Open FX generator in Resolve! Cool right? 👊
Thanks for the video really
Thanks for watching 👊 Have an awesome weekend!
10 bit looked better. 8 bit i could see noise in the colour roll offs. For editing to work quickly I suggest you use proxy files to edit with and only output 10 bit at the end.
Yeah you got it, that's what I do now. With my zv-e1 I use 10 bit and s-log 3... I just use the proxy generator that comes with Resolve and it makes the proxy files within a reasonable time. Worth doing to make the editing process a breeze anyway. Do you shoot in log?
@@thesahdstudioi shoot in slog 2 on a7s2 and slog3 on a7siii. I use D-Cinelike on Pocket2... and Dlog10bit on new Pocket3
I could be mistaken, but I feel like the 10 bit (140m) S-Log3 f11 looks far better than all of the others, and the 8 bit straight up having a hard time keeping track of dark areas in the image, causing a lot of flickering.
It was definitely more noticeable working on the computer before the TH-cam compression. I think well there is a big difference unless you're seeing them back to back or side to side the audience doesn't really going to notice. I still like shooting in the highest quality whenever possible personally though but I don't think it's required when starting out.
You can see that. Your client wont 🤪
i am still struggling to find out whether there is any reason to film in 10-bit at all. i have made all kinds of experiments myself, and the only way to see significant difference between 8 and 10-bit is if you do some extreme color grading. i mean, extreme to the point that no video or movie ever would do that much. with some pretty strong color grading you can still sometimes see veeery faint banding, which of course is not acceptable for bigger productions, but it only appears if you do quite heavy exposure/gamma changes. if you do no grading or jus tlight grading, it's pretty much theoretically impossible to see the difference. people that claim they see the difference between 8bit and 10bit right out of camera are lying. the only way they would be able to see that difference is if their eyes are sensitive enough to see the difference between the color #ff6666 and #ff6667 for example. Open some image editor, fill half your picture with one of those color and the other half with the other. then see if you can see the threshold where it switches from one to the other. It is impossible. So again, it is only when we start stretching and expanding the waveform that we can start seeing differences, but I have never really seen anyone on youtube demonstrate a real world, plausiable example where you can actually see a difference
I think like you said in your first sentence, it depends on the reason...will it help you grow a TH-cam channel faster? No. It won't. I was stuck on wanting to get high 4k quality when I started and wasted a lot of energy trying to make my videos look good when I sucked at pretty much everything else. It's fun to tinker with now that I'm getting more experience, but my audience never notices when I play around with different resolutions or bit rates so I can honestly say it really doesn't matter for TH-cam at least.
im colorblind its a really big difference'
Really eh?
I do shoot exclusively in 10 bit s-log 3 now since I know what I'm doing a bit better and I think it looks a lot nicer... but unless the footage is side-by-side most people probably wouldn't notice it didn't look good.
Yes being red/green colorblind deficiency I can only see 200,000 vs a regular person can see over 1 billion colors when I first started to film and take pictures I use to capture and black and white because I wanted people to feel what I saw. I started on 8 bit I didn’t have confidence to color grade. Using 10 bit overall just feels different to me and gives me versatility I didn’t know I needed.
The only difference I saw was S-LOG3 vs no PP. 8bit vs 10bit is extremely close. Only at 1:44 I see a slight improvement with s-log 10bit vs a-log 8bit.
Right? For most people starting out it's pretty overwhelming to learn how to expose in log then grade it in post etc... it's all fun when you are ready and have the appropriate gear, but when you DON'T, oh boy you sure can spend time optimizing something you have no clue about just spinning your wheels.
@@thesahdstudio It's an icing on top of the cake type skill that takes time to master. Something you can practice on the side, but not something you should rely on. It's important to get the context of your videos right, and that will build your audience more than dry cinematography with no direction or interesting story. Some people on TH-cam find simple things that attract viewers and make videos about them with very simple editing, and they are making thousands of dollars every month from TH-cam, because people consume that kind of content that they chose to make videos about. One guy I know has around a 1000 videos of a go-pro mounted to his head, just taking expensive cars for a test drives every couple of days. Each of his videos have 30,000 views on average within the first week that its posted. That's $90 per video in that first week that its posted. Combine all of the videos he has, and you can bet he's made a decent salary on those low effort videos.
@@SB-ck9gq You are right. It's good advice to a: be consistent and b: do something that you love... but you also do need that certain blend of luck and charisma to make it work. For me, it's tricky to be consistent with content since my interests constantly change. I figure at least by releasing videos even if they don't fit into the overall puzzle, at least I'm sharpening my skills or at least keeping them sharp for when I DO get the time to think of a game plan for the channel. Believe it or not I think that is THE hardest part of all of this and something I consistently struggle with. What do I want this channel to be/offer in 1-3-5 years from now and what do I want out of it. If there's no passion it'll fizzle.
@@thesahdstudio if I could give you some advice, it’s too make streamlined content, you do have the charisma to be successful, but you should pick topics that are the most popular. For example if you’re making video camera reviews, try making videos about cameras that are the most popular today, and get pretty girls or even instagram models and do photoshoots in beautiful settings and use those in your videos, instead of photographing your pets or flowers for example.
Also try installing a chrome extension that shows you TH-cam analytics, that will show you what are the best words to use in your tags, video title, and description. It will show which words have more popularity. This helps viewers to find your videos. Another thing is get shoutouts from more famous TH-camrs, and do collabs with more famous TH-camrs. And you could even try to find a TH-camr and pay them to do a shoutout for you. I got a shoutout from another channel that makes videos about buses and transportation, and his channel is not even that famous, but this video got close to 500,000 views in the last year and made me close to $2000 over that year just for that one video that took me 30mins to film and an hour to edit. It definitely payed off the price of my go-pro camera.
I’m the same way when it comes to my interest’s shifting a lot and I constantly want to upload something new to my channel that I’m passionate about, but then I remember that my channel is about transportation and driving vehicles, so I can’t upload a scary story about a mountain climber who froze to death while climbing Mount Everest or a girl that drowned while beating the world record for deepest dive on a single breath. Actually I had a channel that was dedicated to that topic and I had gotten a good amount of views from those videos because I narrated them with a very slow and mysterious voice and added sick sound tracks such as “Ross Bungden - Something Wicked” to help with the epic story buildup.
In the end I deleted that channel because I felt a little strange making videos about other people’s misfortunes, it’s just against my philosophy or maybe I’m a bit superstitious, but I really enjoyed making those videos and the channel was blowing up at the time.
8-Bit makes his head shinier.
Resolve needs an effect to reduce head brightness.
Really needed to hear this. As a novice trying to get into videography for my youtube channel, it’s really confusing when other youtubers recommend all sorts of picture profiles and camera settings, even though i can barely tell the difference in quality. Yet i have the FOMO feeling that I am not “doing things right” if I’m not tinkering with these settings.
Now that I have heard you say this, I can sleep at night in peace 🤣
Oh I've been there my friend. Glad you found the video. Yeah if I could do it all again right now I wouldn't even be bothered if it was at 1080p/4k. Just having some really fast glass (f1.4) is the only thing I would really chase. Everything else doesn't really matter imho! Just make that content great!
Yeah i admit that i can't see the difference in those comparisons but i still shoot 10 bit on my cameras that can do it because with resolve color management it's actually zero extra effort.
Yeah I'm with you nowadays because I can. When you don't have the right gear I don't think it's worth spending the extra money and time learning until you've really had some experience. I think you can get more color out of the 10 bit for sure when you get decent at grading.
I watch this on a 10 bit screen and i can see the difference between 8 and 10 bit here
Yeah I watch it on a big screen too and can see the difference but not a ton. They all look good enough for TH-cam and would be fine for building a channel either way.
Thing is, when you set up color management in resolve, it is zero extra work to shoot 10 bit slog3. Literally zero extra work.
How would you do it... Just use a color space transform?
Sorry for the late reply. Canadian Thanksgiving weekend! I'm up a few lbs lol
I agree with your conclusion. The reason you will not see much a difference between 10 bit and 8 bit codecs is because Premiere Pro, Media Composer, Resolve, FCPX Edius etc process the effect using 32 bit 4:4:4.
You would see a difference between 10 bit and 8 bit if you did color correction using 10 bit hardware vs 8 bit hardware. The video link below might be helpful.
th-cam.com/video/zBO0AGx8324/w-d-xo.html
Cool. Thanks for the share! Will check it out.
@@thesahdstudio You are welcome. We should do a a collaboration video. We have the same amount of subscribers more or less.
@TechTVusa hey, love the idea but I'm in a pretty swamped period of my life with kiddos and don't have a ton of time. I don't think I'd be very fun to work with at the moment but maybe I'll reach out in the near future! Appreciate the offer 👊
Hello! Thanx 4 vdeo. I’m producing only for yt too. But I like shot in s-log in sunny day for having blue sky and information in shadows without noise. I have a Sony a7c and 8 bit is quiet problematic in these scenarios actually. If I’ll buy Sony a7sIII with 10 bit is it will helps me to avoid noise in shadows in Slog?
Hello my friend! Sorry I took so long responding, we just moved and I've finally setup my computer. Honestly it might help a little but the TH-cam compression will still make it look worse than you want it to look. I just quickly watched this video of yours (th-cam.com/video/6qQN56cWX8A/w-d-xo.html) and my first thought was your white balance is off. Your skin tones look don't look super natural. What picture profile are you using and what lens are you using?
@@thesahdstudio Sony G-Master 24 1.4, S-Log 3, color temperature was 4000k and on the post I've make it more warmer
Exactly the Video I've been looking for. I recently bought the Sony A7CII and, as a predominantly still shooter, I am overwhelmed by all the video options, and I don't see much difference between my settings. Plus, most video player software don't even play the 10-bit version. What other settings, like frame and bit rate, do you mostly shoot in?
Nice! Ok, well, it depends on a bit on what computer you would be editing in... I usually shoot in X-AVC S (h.264). That and X-AVC HS (h.265) are more compressed which make them harder to edit smoothly without making proxies. My gear is pretty decent so I'll usually do 10 bit with the highest bit rate possible as it's fun to have the most wiggle room in post. But honestly, the majority of my audience couldn't tell the difference if I shot in the most basic settings with my cameras as long as my cameras were properly exposed.
What lens will you be using?!
@@thesahdstudio I have plenty of lenses, mostly the Tamron 28-200 f2.8-5.6 and Sony 24-105 f4 G lens, but also many of my old A-mount gear with the adapter, such as the Minolta 20 2.0, 50 f1.4, 135 f2.8, and many more.
My video players on my PC doesn't seem to play the 10 bit codecs and I'm totally unfamiliar with applying color profiles or color grading. I'll have to educate myself on all that. But for now my 8-bit videos look amazing.
One thing that surprises me is that there doesn't seem to be a Sony Creators app for Windows for photo and video editing that includes all the codecs and tools needed specifically for Sony cameras.
I find it nice to not have any banding in post with 10bit. We all know TH-cam messes it up when uploading.. Nice video 👍
Thanks for watching! So I read recently that TH-cam DOES support 10 bit video but you have to export it with HDR metadata. Once the kiddos go back to school (next month) I will have so much more time to get testing which is what I love to do. You DO need HDR supported devices to view the 10 bit content but I will be curious if it changes how banding looks compared to normal TH-cam uploads.
Here's the link fyi: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7126552?hl=en#zippy=%2Cupload-requirements%2Chdr-video-file-encoding%2Chdr-metadata
@@thesahdstudio interesting. Looking forward to your findings 👍
in studio the light is all fixed while outside is not , try comparing outside that will be a different
Yeah I hear you. Halfway through the video I show some shots outside but not of a human face. Maybe I'll do this video again in the near future include more clips. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@thesahdstudio great comparison by the way
I found in some settings the difference is hard to notice, but other settings definitely 10 bit makes the scene better, like that shot on the sculpture of the cat. I am shooting on smartphone and the 10-bit shots are supposed to be properly converted when another platform cannot process it properly, but instead the videos become washed out :( I still wanna keep using 10-bit though :(
I think the better the camera/lens the more the higher quality footage really matters. I'd rather have a nice lens with 8 bit footage you know what I mean? Just shoot what is easy and looks good enough for now. But yeah, it's fun to shoot in the highest quality possible. I would too.
10 bit is used for color grading. Its useless if you do nothing with your color. Its basic stuff.
I'm not sure if I would call color grading basic. It's a lot to understand when you are new into the world of videography... but like you said, it's not necessary for most people who are just getting into TH-cam.
@@thesahdstudio i mean thats basic knowledge that 10 bit is for color grading
omg...3:50...reminds me of beetlejuice...amazing video bro
Haha thanks man 👊 really appreciate it. See it reminded me of the original super Mario Bros movie lol. Same same
watching this on my 6 bit laptop
🤣 hey whatever works!
GREAT VIDEO THANKS
Appreciated the comment 👊
Something else to consider if you are on a Ryzen or Intel platform. Ryzen does not support 10bit 4.2.2. Intel does. For example if you shoot on Canon R5, R6 with C log. Good luck Editing it in premiere on a Ryzen platform. For 80% of people 8 bit is enough. Always expose for the highlights and you can bring up the shadows a little bit to get that extra detail.
For sure! In my latest videos I have been experimenting with Intel Quick Sync which supposedly supports 4.2.2 but I have to say it's not as good as I was expecting. I think the raw horsepower of the latest CPU's is enough to edit smoothly in h.264, but if you want to edit in h.265 you should probably make proxies.
Thank you for your video. I also doubted whether I would record 10 bit S-Log 3 (Sony A7 iv and A6700) but you are right that you can use your time better to learn to edit better and make good videos. I'm out, also continue in 8-bit and no PP. 🙋
Thanks for watching! I think that's just it... I'm not against 10 bit and shooting in LOG, I just hate they way it's marketed towards noobs. I wasted so much time, but lessons learned and hopefully this helps others remember what's important! 👊
@@thesahdstudioi totally agree with you, the way youtubers marketed the 10 bit footage as if you gonna be an instant professional, w/o knowing that you still have to work it out and its trial and error process
@@gailguardian1203 Exactly! Is it great? Sure. But so is 8 bit. A good lens shooting with 8 bit is much better than a meh lens in 10. At least that's been my experience.
My manager is very strict about 10bit, if he ever found out about me using 8bit to shoot our commercials i'd get fired on the spot, no warnings.
Oh yeah I could see how you'd want at LEAST 10 bit if you're a business or do commercial work. There definitely is a difference. But for a lot of creators who are just pumping out vids on Tik Tok or IG, I don't think it's really necessary.
10 bit does look a little better. Does it matter? Probably not for TH-cam, but it's nice to floor a sports car you own, or an A7IV, it's part of the toy factor. You're editing on a laptop. I have zero issues on a desktop that's a few years old but was planned for 4K editing (32G, RTX2060, i8700K that I could still overclock) . 10 bit runs smoothly.
Oh and remember I said I'll sell the A7IV in favor of an FX30? Well, I won't, I'd only gain 4K/120 and since this camera is video centric, I see it dropping price faster than the hybrid A7IV, which incidentally already took a small hit on the used market, while the FX30 hasn't yet. So I would lose double. I might pick one up later though, If I get tired of the ZV-E10 as a b-cam 🤣
You know this laptop shreds pretty hard. I can edit 4k 10-bit files and it edits fast and renders my 8 minute talking head videos in like 5 minutes. The problem is just when I start adding any effects is all.
And yeah you're right. I probably will still shoot in 10 bit with different log profiles just for something to do and to see if my audience notices... but I don't think I need to on my other non-camera related channel.
@@thesahdstudio That laptop is a beast then😎 I haven't played much with special effects yet, I just remember that even on 8bit footage, the computer easily gets on its knees with some of these. I remember something with proxies and pre-rendering, and yes 10 bit should be even worse 🙄😂
thank you, I save money now hehe
Glad you found the video! I really spent a lot more money than I needed to. A good lens and ok camera is MUCH better than a kit lens and a good camera. At least in my opinion!
@@thesahdstudio yeah I agree! I got the sony zv e10 and sigma 16mm F1.4, I was thinking about getting the mark ii version but its another 500$ 🤮 thank you for responding, I subscribed :D
Why comparing 8bit vs 10bit with no post production? The advantage of 10bit is that you have more space for post production.
If we need it or not is another story
I applied a basic color space transform but yeah, didn't take the footage and really apply customization to it which like you said, is the major advantage of shooting in log. I think whether or not it is worth using especially for new creators was kind of the point of the video and what I addressed at the end! I felt like better story telling and learning more editing skills are probably more valuable than color when it comes to TH-cam anyway. But if you enjoy it then go nuts.... I just wasted a lot of time fiddling not knowing what I was doing myself!
03:50 - MIB flashback! 😂
Haha that's awesome. Can't wait to watch that movie again, my kiddos are almost at the right age. Now that you mention it, it reminds of the original Super Mario Bros movie too: i.insider.com/61572f7db414c10018635618?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp lol
@@thesahdstudio Haha! Even better! 😂
So heres a situation, I have just got a LG C3, after buying many cables and trying lots of experiments i finally got my image stable at 4K 60HZ by lowering the colour to 8bit RGB down from 10 bit because unknowingly to me my lenovo gaming 3 rtx 3050 laptop only has hdmi 2.0 which at 4K 60HZ is only stable at 8bit, do I really upgrade to a hdmi 2.1 laptop again or just be happy, ethier way Mandolorian 4K remux on Kodi looks amazing, yes 10 bit has slightly a bit more colour deph but it does still look very nice.
lol ugh, what rollercoaster! That's rad you figured it out and got to the bottom of it.... but that's also annoying to find a bottleneck you cannot change easily. Is it mostly for content consumption or are you gaming on there?
Tough call eh... tough call indeed.
@@thesahdstudio thanks for replying, a bit of both tbh, I have a PS5 I mostly use but RDR2 stuck at 30fps kills me so I play it on my laptop because I can alter settings to get 60fps, since messaging you I have managed to push it again this time to the brink YCBR444 10 Bit limited actually looking better than 8bit RGB and so far so good, 2 movies in and no distortions, others on Reddit have had same issues in LG C models with 30 series graphics cards or bellow, I think Nvidia didn't include some of the 30 series GPU's with a hdmi 2.1 port so people set HDR to the highest and keep having the same problem
@@ThomasShears-o9c How's it going a couple days later?
I ronically 8Bit looked sharper to me. Also, at the end, youtube's compression destroys a lot of the detail and most people watching won't eve care.
That's just it right? I mean you can squeeze more colour out of 10 bit sometimes... but will others notice? Probably not. heh.
Top! I absolutely agree. Maybe for professional work, 10 bit is good. Thank you!!
Right?! I mean, if you're a professional and people will be critiquing your work, sure. But for most of us, content is still king!
Have an awesome day 👊
You can shoot 10 bit then when you export out, export it as 8bit, this is to prevent color banding when you're doing alot of color manipulation. Is there a difference? Of course! but only if you know what. you are doing.
If you were uploading to TH-cam would you just leave the export at 10 bit though? No reason to scale it down as TH-cam will compress it anyway? I was just doing 8 bit as it was easier to directly work on. Lately I've just been shooting 10 bit and using proxies (then exporting at 10 bit).
On a 16 inch laptop display with 10 bit, can you notice the difference between 8 bit and 10bit?
Honestly, maybe a little? If the content was good and you were paying attention to the story you wouldn't even notice... but if it was a tech demo, side-by-side showing you the difference you would. If you were buying a camera and the different was thousands of dollars (which it is to a lot of us) I would say save the money and learn the gear. 1080p 8-bit with a good lens upscaled will still look way better than 10-bit 4k with a kit lens or someone who doesn't know what they're doing. That's just my opinion of course!
Great video and just what I needed to see. I have been using ShotCut video editor and now I have a much better laptop I am looking to move to either CapCut or Da Vinci but I have heard that DaVinci (free) will only handle 8 bit. I have a decent Canon DSLR that will shoot 4k video and a Google pixel that I shoot my video on in 4k , so i am doing some home work to try and best guess what to go for.
Thanks for watching! DaVinci Resolve is fantastic software and it really depends on what your goals are with your video editing but it might be worth sticking with since it's so comprehensive... I think if you are working with your own personal stuff or for TH-cam 8 bit is enough.
Random question, are you editing using a Window Machine or a Mac?
@thesahdstudio I have a new MSI Prestige 16 Studio laptop running win11. I am very impressed with it so far. I have since discovered that DaVinci (free) doesn't come with auto captions which i think would be a great time saver for me. My channel is rather niche and so i believe difficult to grow which is why I am only at 400 subs in 2 years. I am a one man band and have to do everything myself. I don't really help myself as I am a bit of a perfectionist with everything so everything takes way too much time. I would like to grow my channel to the point where I get something back from all of the (currently) free advertising with the adds attached to my content
@@itsalldoable Sounds like a nice machine. Yeah I hear you... making your workflow efficient and having the right software to do that makes a big difference. That was never a priority for me so I can't really weigh in on it. It seems like you've had a few good videos so hopefully you can lean in on what's working and continue to grow. Good luck!
@@thesahdstudio thank you 👍
Watching 10 vs 8 bit video on mobile with 8 bit panel 😂😂😂😭😭😭
Hahaha like most of us!
Thanks very useful and genuin and actually after seeing the difference its not worth the time and money it for youtube uploads
Appreciate the comment 👊 and I know right? I still record in 10 bit just because I use proxies and it edits very smoothly when I do. But if it didn't I would have zero problem recording in 8 bit again. I can guarantee no one in my audience would notice!
10 and 12 bit are for color grading nothing else dont grade 8 bit is good
I think sometimes people want to get a bit of a creative look on their shot but I know what you're saying for sure
whats this video shot in? it looks fricken amazing? what camera you using? a7 4? my a74 doesnt look as good as this... what am i doing wrong?
Haha, thanks man! Yes, the a7iv, usually with no picture profiles. I tweak the settings in post a little... I'm always tweaking my camera and changing my lenses though in the search of good looking videos. What lens are you using!?
Yes... The 10 bit camera is more expensive than the 8 bit one.
Yeah and for just how much better on TH-cam right?
Hey man, great video! I just started a TH-cam channel myself and currently using the A7iv as my main camera but I’d like to add a 2nd camera for additional angle as it’s just me. Do you think the zv-e10 would pair well with the a7iv? I’m recording in 4/30 only, 10 bit. No color grading - just select white balance. My other consideration is the zv-e1 with the main attraction being the “auto-framing” feature - perhaps they could make my videos more interesting? But maybe it would be a waste as I’m mainly sitting in 1 spot. You can see my current work on the channel. Any feedback is highly appreciated. Thanks man!
Thanks! And hey... more gear is always fun and exciting. Do you NEED it? No. I personally would prefer to have both full-frame cameras myself as it makes it a little easier to expose your shots... especially since you're indoors with relatively low light. The zv-e10 might fall apart and look super grainy if you don't really know what you're doing. The full-frame with a decent lens will look like butter.
Now, with that being said what I would do if I were you is record the same song with the same outfit etc from a number of different spots. Record one in your usual shot, record again with it zoomed in just to the guitar, record another shot from the other side of another maybe cool/flattering singing shot for the chorus or something then just stitch together the video in post to make it look like there's 3 or 4 cameras. You know? You COULD use your phone in there as well for a different angle... but until you really start gaining some traction I think learning your gear, learning how to frame the shots to be more interesting using the gear you have will be enough to grow.
Ultimately it's the music that has to be good right... the content... the audio... then visually if you can make it interesting people will want to stick around.
I think multiple angles that are wide enough where you can crop in and zoom on each one in multiple ways will work for you. Your first shot for example, you start wide then slowly zoom it in... then you cut to your hands strumming, then back out to the wide shot... then switch to the side shot etc.
Sorry, I went on a side tangent but I think what you have made is really good, and with a bit of creativity with what you already have it will look awesome!!
@@thesahdstudio thank you so much for your input - you're right, right now I'm still just playing around with different ideas, gear, settings, etc - I'm no expert in video production - just your everyday guy who's passionate about music and want to share it with people. Good luck with your channel - I'm looking forward to more content!
@@RunningInSuits Likewise! 👊
Look great on my 4K TV. (8bit+frc)
Right?! I watch all my content on my 55 inch OLED TV and I'm always happy with the quality. Lately I have been playing around with 10 bit because it makes it a little more fun to play with in post... There is more free done with the colors and shadows etc. But nobody cares about that except for me lol
very good
thanks for watching 👊
That was a big help for me. I bought the fx30 today then i saw the crazy prices of the sd cards. 8 bit is perfect for me so now i can safe a lot of money!
Oh that's awesome, so glad I could help. And what a fun day. I'm excited and a little bit jelly of you! Did you get a lens too (if so, what)!?
buying fx30 and using 8 bit is really sad. your camera gives image same image of a lot worse cameras when you do that. you can record 10 bit also with v60 or v90 cards, they are not too expensive. believe me difference is huge (I also use fx30)
@@bahadirozer hey thank you for your information. I use a v60 card, it covers all of my favourite settings. 10bit is really mo problem for me with this card.
@@bahadirozer i have now a tough card v60 for about 100 dollars and 256 gb 👌
@@bahadirozerSo your statement looks bit opposite what being shown in this video 🤔? Does it really makes a big difference?
8 bit light editing, 10 bit for pushing the colors for creative grading. 8 bit push too far and banding will occur.
Exactly. Although now that I'm rocking a MacBook and shooting in the SI codec, editing is much quicker so I'm leaving it in 10 bit since I'm finally learning what I'm doing! Necessary though? Meh.
Im watching this on an 8 bit monitor...
Hehe I think most people probably are 😆👊
Keep in mind, you're not even capable of displaying the over 1 billion colors of 10bit if you don't have a 10bit display. To put this into perspective, 8bit is almost 16.8 million. It's a huge amount of color, and almost anywhere people are viewing most videos, they're not 1, displayed in 10bit, and 2, if they were, they're probably not being viewed on 10bit screens.
8 bit is enough for most people. 10bit is primarily used in professional design and video for professional output
For sure, well put. It's interesting that lately I've gotten a bit better at shooting in 10-bit s-log 3, and even on my 8 bit monitor the footage does seem like it has way nicer, richer color. Does anyone else other than me notice it? Probably not. And is it worth the extra effort? Again probably not. But I enjoy doing it.
@@thesahdstudio where in videos do you see the difference specifically? It's not uncommon for things like large areas of gradients, like walls or light spills to look smoother instead of having stepping.
Like recording and editing in 4k but exporting to 1080p, the difference will be subtle, but can be noticable. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and findings! :)
@@Joehirst Definitely the gradient and saturation of background light on the walls. I think my skin tones have a little more saturation as well... but it's one of those things, maybe I've just gotten better, maybe it's just the better gear I have now... it's tough to say for sure.
Do you have a 10 bit setup? If so what picture profile do you shoot in?
I'm sitting here looking at this video on a 120hz 10 bit monitor and I can't see a difference other than slog3 has more noise and less dynamic range in the dark areas creating more contrast. That last shot of the tree in 8bit no picture profile looks the best to me. Who knows though. Shoot in whatever, just make good content. That's more important anyways.One could argue that 8bit is easier to color grade because you're managing 16 million colors instead of 1 billion colors.
That's a great point. It's such a point of diminishing returns once you get to that level. It's amazing how much time and energy I put into that only to realize it doesn't really matter... at least not when it comes to making TH-cam videos, which is all I'm trying to do. Like you said Story is #1!
You will see differant on black backgrounds
Yeah I really notice on gradient backgrounds too... with a colored light pointed at the wall kind of thing.
doesnt youtube compress to 8 bit anyways?
Not necessarily. It does compress it though. It's a bit vague, but through my own testing and that of other commenters it seems that it's best to upload in the highest quality you can then let TH-cam optimize it. This seems to yield better and sometimes surprisingly results (some commenters have said when they upscale their 1080p to 4k video it actually looks AND sounds better).
Have you rendered that youtube video as havec or h264?
I always do h.264! It seems to process the 4k very quickly which is nice.
well I hear that youtube videos are all in 8 bit any how haha
It looks like TH-cam does support HDR 10/12 bit but you have to render it within a supported container and the viewer obviously has to watch a device capable of HDR. If you don't render this way, like you said, TH-cam will convert the video to a more basic/standard color range. But if you wouldn't have asked that question I wouldn't have known that so thanks!
Answer here: support.google.com/youtube/answer/7126552?sjid=342307121170177469-NA#zippy=%2Cupload-requirements%2Chdr-metadata
I searched for something else but your vid came up as first result. Imma shoot my question anyways in hopes you can help me find best settings for my dual monitor setup:
I have two Acer 27's 1440ps one is 144hz the other is 240hz. They 144hz suppports 8bpc only (as its the only option in nvidia control panel) while the 240hz supports both 8 & 10 bpc modes. I noticed that my 240hz goes black when im alt tabbing from a full screen video/game when in 10bpc while the 2nd monitor is connected, didn't black out when I only had the 240hz connected as single monitor. Do I loose a lot of color when setting my 240hz or can I live with the 8bpc unified between the two monitors? Also whats best for refresh rate on my secondary 144hz monitor; keep it at 144 or drop it to 60hz as I would like to keep my main monitor @ 240hz since I game on it. I only use the secondary 144hz for browsing and while working on excel/word.
I'm sorry my friend, I cannot help! Perhaps posting on Reddit or something might get you the answer you seek?
I was deciding between the GH5 and a6500 for hybrid use but its a though decision. I was leaning towards the GH5 mainly for its 10 Bit video capability. However, is it really worth the extra $200-300?
I think it really depends on what you're using it for. What's your main goal with the camera?
Before you buy the body make sue you check out what kind of lenses are available. I'm a huge fan of buying used... you might have a LOT more options for the Sony. I'm not sure but that's been my experience. It's a bit of a safer/more robust ecosystem.
@@thesahdstudio I'm split 50/50 between video and photo. Sony seems to have the edge with better autofocus, low light performance (bigger sensor), and great software support for mobile and PC. Plus, I'm really into the large selection of E-mount lenses. But I'm still unsure if the 10-bit feature is worth it considering the GH5s cons compared to the a6500.
@@maesl69 Yeah it's a tough call for sure. For me, going up to full-frame was the feature I really wanted the most as I found I ended up shooting a lot more low light than I initially thought, and it made a massive difference for me. If I was you, I would probably buy whichever used one I could that's the best deal on marketplace, use it for awhile, then decide if the camera is enough for you. If not, sell it for what you pay and move on. That feature might not even be that important once you use it... or maybe it is. I know it's tough when you get analysis paralysis. You just need to get something and start creating!
@@thesahdstudio Thank you for the fantastic advice! But generally speaking, how big is the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit really? I've never seen a direct comparison.
@maesl69 well I tried to showcase it in this video. It definitely has richer colors when you're shooting in log. I definitely made it a priority to get a camera that could do it but honestly with a decent lens 8-bit film is more than fine especially for what I'm doing trying to build a TH-cam channel. If you really care about quality for your own personal entertainment then I totally get it but if you just want to record great videos of your family and friends or build a TH-cam channel I'd save the money.
watching this with my girl, on my Oled hdr1000 monitor and we both are unable to see any diferences. My monitor is set to 10bit as we speak.
I would like to do this test again now that I have become better at grading but yeah, combined with TH-cam compression, there's not a lot of reason to shoot in 10 bit. I still do it now that I have even better gear just to squeeze the most color possible out of it, but does anyone other than me notice it? Probably not.
Where you go get the effects in your video editing? Also I’m looking at the canon EOS R6 MK ll versus Sony A7 R5
I just use the effects that coming with DaVinci Resolve Studio otherwise I try and edit the effect/graphic I want myself. Nothing too complicated but once you learn the software it's pretty easy to use.
Those are some pretty insane cameras you are considering, although quite different! I would love to play around with the R6 2. I love Canon colours out of camera. The Sony is just a MONSTER photo camera. That would be too many megapixels for me but I'm a video guy. I think the Canon would probably be better value and more well-rounded if you aren't a photographer. Just my two cents!
Awesome! Thanks for the insights. I use Logic Pro X in editing my videos. Video guy as well here. I’m looking at if I’m purchasing a new camera, it would be like a kinda do a bit of all and looking for long term. But the R6 MK ll seems to be a great one to choose
10 BIT no PP
Yeah now that I've changed my gear since making this video I have been running 10 bit s-log 3. Is it necessary? Well... I think it looks better. Would anyone other than me care? Still probably not.
yeah i mean, all looked good not one looked bad or so. the one with 10bit no pp, was the first that stood out as the most natural or Balanced looking in my op ...i mean in germany we would say "Meckern auf hohem Niveau"@@thesahdstudio
💐💐
👊😄
I went from 8-bit on my ZV-1 to 10-bit on my A7iV and you can tell the difference. But 8 doesn't look bad. You would think there would be more of a difference given the amount of more colors 10-bit has. Also I exported a 10-bit vid in 8-bit one time to save space (MP4 vs AppleProRes422) and you could see the 8-bit video's color's were muted.
But you need to be viewing in a proper monitor, def not just a phone.
iPhone Video and Pics look great on a phone, put them on a nice monitor .. not so much. The new 13 Pro 48mp in RAW photos hold up better.
I think No PP on the A7iv is good, but I like S-Cinetone quite a bit more and will not go back to No PP.
As for SLOG3 I think it's meant to be used with a LUT. You slap on conversion LUT on it and then another LUT after that to get the style you want.
If you aren't adding a LUT to SLOG3 you might as well just roll with S-Cinetone. The dynamic range is similar. S-Cinetone is pretty much useable right out of camera.
If I was you I wouldn't worry about doing 10-bit if your computer struggles with it, and it takes up more space. ESPECIALLY for videos inside of yourself speaking...
BUT if you went on a vacation, you should considering doing 10-bit and S-Cinetone or SLOG3.
Yeah that's interesting stuff. My first tinkerings with the profiles, S-log3 looked the best but I don't really know what I'm doing with Cinetone/HLG. Do I need to color space transform those to rec709 too? Do the luts do that with the s-log also? I still have a lot to learn.
And I agree with the first part you said too, when you go from 8 bit to 10, the number of colors is just nuts... I guess those colors are more transitional colors? Or really, colors you notice on special, better calibrated screens?
I dont see any difference at all! All your photos look 100% the same for me.
With my monitor I can only use 120hz with 10bits but 170hz with 8bits. Since I dont see any difference at all I dont see the piont going for 10bits.
Right?! Since this video I have gotten a little better at working with 10 but so perhaps I will do an update to this video and we'll see if you can tell then. But yeah, with TH-cam compression... working more efficient seems the right choice.
slog looked worse that no pp
Right? To be fair since making this video I have better gear and skills so I think if I were to do this test again (which I should!) it might look a little different.
@thesahdstudio
If anyone is reading this, hopefully this information helps in the whole "bit" conversation.
Shooting raw (for me) revealed the noise improvements of 12-bit over 10-bit.
Despite everyone using 8bit+frc monitors.
Not just a color choice.
Now I can't go backwards, everything is 12-bit raw.
Upscaled or Compressed, it's way better.
14-bit is still too unstable for (data-writing) highlights and crashes the camera.
12-bit is just beauty in low light or dealing with noise.
Tried REC709-A output color space to match Davinci Wide Gamut timeline, using davinci yrgb.
Helped match the timeline to exports.
If ever "redoing" this type of video, it is worth noting for less experienced users who lack a calibrated monitor.
I have a calibrated monitor (now),
and render differently using that...
but this was/is a great method for seeing what exports will look like for youtube (matching timeline to renders).
A little extra ...
A bright day, for a long video,
i might use 10-bit to ease the data stream
(to the write buffer of the camera,
as I am limited by data-write speeds)
Mostly due to highlights/over exposures
appearing more frequently (on a bright day) than underexposures.
A lot of other cameras deal with 10-bit noise internally, with built in profiles, their own raw codec, so this information varies from camera to camera.
I am not a user of log, or profiles,
so it's worth noting...
YMMV
(your mileage may vary)
That's great, thanks for taking the time to share it. Really appreciate it. @@Ascoundrel
I take it you don't do a lot of color grading then....?
Na. It's not really worth it for TH-cam. Although since creating this video I have gotten a lot better at shooting/exposing for LOG and grading my videos. Even now though does it really matter for building my TH-cam channel? Meh.
@@thesahdstudio depends what kind of content drives your channel. If you like at creators like Gawx or Natalie Lynn they definitely put value in the color grading process. It really depends.
@@graphikeye Oh yeah, for sure! Early on my TH-cam journey I was overthinking my gear and not focusing on the art. I got hung up on things like shooting in log etc... so this video was to remind people that if they LIKE to do that stuff, cool! But you don't NEED that stuff (10 bit etc) to get started and have a dope channel.
Those are cool channels by the way!
@@thesahdstudio good point. There is no need to have so many gates to the creative process, I agree. 🙂
Watching this on my Windows laptop with 6bit graphic card, and i don't see a difference.
Right? My takeaway was TH-cam compresses things so much it's really not worth spend so much on gear if your goal is TH-cam, like mine is.
Thanks for sharing!
ofc yes .
Hehe. Yeah it's more noticeable on bigger screens too, so for some channels that only tailor to mobile, maybe then it's not as important.
@@thesahdstudio i mean I work with 8 and 10 bit . 8 bit is a nightmare after 10 bit .
@@mex5341 Right? What do you think then... for TH-camrs starting out maybe looking to buy their first camera. Should they future-proof their purchase with buying a camera capable of 10 bit? Or not to worry for the first while
@@thesahdstudio now almost every camera has 10 bit , so not a big question)
I was nr 1000 sub 🤘👍
Amazing!!! 🫶🍻
Thanks for the support. Really appreciate it.
@@thesahdstudio congrats mate 👍
How many Watt use a 8bit monitor less than a 10bit? Thanks
Hi, sorry I don't understand your question :(
@@thesahdstudio How many Watts use a 8bit monitor more than a 10 bit?
I don't know @@ricbattaglia6976
im planning to get a7s II as first fullframe video/photography camera
for dirt cheap
so is it worth canceling my order??
i was using a 500d so is it worthy, or buying any APS_c camera??that can do 10bit,
for night racing videos and photos
Well how did your 500d perform? Are you happy with it?
I don't know what dirt cheap is, and the a7sii is a little long in the tooth but it looks pretty awesome. Full-frame... can shoot at 4k30fps... I mean yeah that camera should blow the doors off your 500d! I'm not sure what lens you'll get but, full-frame in that atmosphere will give you SO much light, it's awesome!
@thesahdstudio for stills, it's phenomenal. but lacking so much on the video recording
I got great lenses. i hope to pass it on to next camera
sigma 70-200 2.8
@@thesahdstudio used for less than 600$
@@sadeek2009 hmmm. Yeah having to buy lenses for your new Sony WILL make it cost a lot more than just the body. You might be able to sell the lens though then make the switch? Does that Sony come with a kit lens?
@thesahdstudio unfortunately no
but I will probably update the body in the near future
Ok but is the yt video in 10bit? Lol I doubt it.
Oh ya, all my videos are 10 bit now. But TH-cam compression is still a thing.
I think time to upgrade the laptop :)
if you have some money, MacBook air m1 (or m2) is great to edit and not too expensive.
Haha, well I have upgraded since then! I got a sweet deal though I am still windows. I reviewed the monitor on my other (main) channel, The SAHD Life. A 49" monitor lol!!
I still use proxies but when I do it's like butter and creates them super quick.
I have considered just switching everything to Apple though... it'd be costly... have you always been in the ecosystem with phones/computers etc?
@@thesahdstudio no I was windows mostly but m1 MacBook is super cheap and powerful to edit, intel processors are nowhere near apple in terms of price and power
@@bahadirozer can you game in it a bit? Nice to have that option!
@@thesahdstudio not so much, you need another device for that.