Looks like this company actually put some thought into their products, some nice solutions applied to your usually problems. In Wales heating controls still need to be notified, would this system have to be notified, as it can be battery powered and plugged in.
Honeywell Evohome have had these for years. I have them installed on my two remaining rads. (Everything else is UFH in my house controlled by my phone. )
@@Cablesmith about the same as normal TRVs - lol 😂 They are ok, but my personal view is that they appear to be the “runt of the litter”’of the otherwise superb Honeywell EvoHome system. www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-home-evohome-radiator-zone-kit/1216h
@@Cablesmith Evohome is amazing. (I have no vested interests in it) I have expanded it to cover my whole house. All rooms but two have UFH controlled by my phone. It’s very easy to control and reliability has been fantastic (I’ve had it running years) and I keep adding to it as I renovate and extend my house The TRVs have a built in thermostat or (from memory) you can pair it with a remote wall mounted thermostat Any TRV (Evohome or not) that has its own thermostat built in to the trv seems a bit dumb to me due to the obvious problem.
Hello, I'm using smart thermostat with the relay connected to boiler. I'm looking for some smart valves aand I have a question: I found some second hand kits / starter packs with their own gateway device and I would like to know if the valves will be able to work with my existing setup, which is what I'd like (thermostat and gateway/relay on my boiler), OR , are these starter packs "locked" onto their bundled gateways? Thank you Jure
Looks like a nice system for retrofitting without too many modifications (if the previous technician didn't make a mess of the wiring ;-) ). I'm personally not a big fan of anything using batteries, are there smart thermostats and valves that can be hardwired/plugged in?
You always need to modify something and get power - especially when dealing with existing wiring. You can get sending devices which use kinetic energy or solar power - but these aren’t without problems.
Hi Candisa. If the original thermostat has a neutral connection or there's a spare core which could be used as a neutral, then we have a hardwire version which shares all the same features and is compatible with the Valve. See here www.legrand.co.uk/products/user-interface/wiring-accessories/smarther-with-netatmo/
Room thermostats that can be hard wired are plentiful. TRV's there aren't as so many installations now have radiators fed by plastic pipework if there was a fault with a mains fed valve there would be potential for a rather large piece of live metal in the home. You may find 0-24 volt contacts made in future but it's unlikely given how convenient batteries are as they can last 18-24 months. That said smart TRV's are a false economy if you have long curtains or the TRV is mounted on the end of the radiator with poor air flow around it, such as in a corner as they will shut down prematurely/ still not function in the way desired.
@@effervescence5664 Very good point there. Personally I'm not a huge fan of TRVs anyways as I think it's a much better idea to have true independent circuits per room with a thermostat that measures the actual room temperature at a relevant spot. However retrofitting true independent controls is often not realistic so I definitely understand the use of TRVs, *if* they are used correctly. The radiator becoming live shouldn't be an issue if the hardwired TRV is CPC connected to a circuit that is RCD protected. If we're realistic, smart TRVs save pennies over conventional TRVs, so I don't think it's a non-issue that they use batteries: by the time you saved the cost of a pair of batteries they'll need to be replaced, added on the initial investment of those smart TRVs...
Hey. Great presentation. Do you know if it has a multi-zone feature, so for example you could setup ROOM1 to be heated from 7:00-16:00, ROOM2 from 12:00-17:00, ROOM3 from 16:00-20:00, ROOM4 from 20:00 to 8:00 etc. ?
Can the thermostat be wired? I’m not happy with the battery performance, using it in a second home where the heating is not always on. The cold affects the performance of the batteries, will be testing the lithium batteries… but I’ll love to have a wired option
Hi, have you already installed a netatmo smart modulation thermostat? I installed it and it doesn't work properly. I can't control hot domestic water with it. The UNICAL KON-B boiler has an opentherm connection.
Hi i have a question :P my thermostat screen gets stuck as seen at 4.05 (the pairing part). Not sure why its not working because i had an identical model before, but the screen stopped working so i thought it would be easy to replace. I followed the officla instructions as well as your but nothing =( ANy help would be appreciated :P Does it maybe jsut take a really long time?
Hi Effer Vescence. The Valves don't automatically do this. To leave the radiators fully open during the summer we suggest these 2 options: - [Recommended] Create a weekly schedule with a constant heating period set to 30°C, which will allow you to keep the Valves both open and operational. In this case, you will probably receive the Auto-Care alert "Heating maintenance error"; you can ignore it or deactivate it ("My Account> Change my e-mail settings" menu). - Apply a Manual Boost at 30°C, wait a few minutes for all the Valves to open, then remove the batteries. I hope this helps
@@richardhopkins5452 It would remove the chances of annual calls at the start of winter heating periods of "help my radiator valves aren't working" due to them being jammed shut during the summer if the heads actuate too far. Obviously you don't want them sending a signal back to the heating system to bring the boiler on but you do want to avoid breakdowns caused by a TRV. Seems wasteful if twice a year you have to go around the house taking out and putting in the batteries to avoid it, which is one of the reasons our company doesn't put smart TRV's forward to customers over conventional ones.
I use a Netatmo and have what I think are some fairly unconventional programming on it which makes it one of the most comfortable heating systems I've installed. I'm not sure I would want two of them controlling separate zones with presumably individual calls to the system.
@@richardhopkins5452 you may have them running differently to how I have previously tried, but. Having two independent zones with separate calls meant you often had the boiler running nonstop as it was called by the individual zones and this was particularly exacerbated when closing doors(teenagers). This was in a 3 story house of 1500 sq ft, so looks different to your case but the transfer of heat always negates the increase in zones. Of course this changes completely with a more horizontal building but I am in something more like that now and have the system(normal rads) running more like an underfloor setup thanks to the Netatmo. I'd like to see how you programme/program the stats, I've often thought of sharing as I've never seen anyone else do it.
@@ooslum There are number of ways the Smart Thermostat can reduce boiler cycling time. Firstly use the Hysteresis algorithm with a larger threshold setting instead of the advanced PID algorithm. If you prefer the features of the advance algorithm then there's option of using the Minimum Heating Time setting which can be set upto 7 minutes.
@@richardhopkins5452 That wouldn't work with 2 thermostats though as they could be alternating to call for heat and fire the boiler. The second "problem" is that I went for the Netatmo precisely because of the small hysterisis . When the Netatmo was first released it used a PID algorithm that was quickly abandoned for, what I believe is a much better, heuristics. I actually try and run the boiler an rads as cool as possible by reducing the return stat to its lowest setting but this keeps the rads warm constantly through the day. This make the system much easier to balance and although it sound expensive to run like that a constantly occupied 100sqm house with temp from 20°at 6am to 22° at 10pm is around £200 annum. The only drawback, if it is, is that we couldn't heat hot water on the boiler loop as the the boiler temp would be too low so an immersion is used.
I’d like to see a video on the Netatmo smart modulating thermostat being fitted to an S plan system with an OpenTherm-capable boiler to achieve a hot water priority system and get the maximum fuel saving capability of such a boiler. Can this modulating thermostat actually apply OT to rapidly heat hot water to 60Celsius?
And from what I can see from the installation instructions there are only four wires from the relay to the boiler- 2 for power and 2 for OpenTherm modulation, so how the heck can the boiler output feed be switched between CH and HW??
looks good for heating control, what about the hot water control? i know your adding solar to do this(looking forward to this vid) just want to know how this will be controlled from the heating system or is there still a programmer as always excellent content 👍🏻
Thanks Derek - We’ve left the time clock in for the hot water at the moment. The solar PV option we’d like to use something like the Myenergi Eddi - then use the auxiliary contacts to swap between gas / electric. The Eddi has its own App which we would still be able to use to trigger the gas water heating. (Fingers crossed) - previous video on Eddi - th-cam.com/video/lVm0VUgmFfA/w-d-xo.html
Hi Derek cross. The Smart Thermostat doesn't have hot water control. However, watch this space , we have a range of smart relays/contactors in all kinds of forms launching this year in the UK which can be set as water heating control to work long side the thermostat.
Nice system, great for modding an existing system , its pretty comprehensive .. my only concern is the rad stats, would be interesting to see a long term test using both alkaline and the dreaded zinc carbon poundland batteries and see if the heat causes them to leak
Hi Torchy. The Valve ships with two AA/LR06 alkaline batteries (1.5V) which is the recommend battery type and on average will last 2 years. This is very dependent on number of operations and the resistance of the radiator valves pin. We recommend regular lubrication with silicone grease to minimise friction. For optimal performance, you can also use non-rechargeable 1.5V lithium batteries to power the Valves. The Valve will give an early low batt warning via display and app to provide plenty of time to replace them. If they aren't replaced the display and app will notify the owner, the Valve will open and remain open to avoid potential damage to the heating system.
The best batteries for these are a newer type of lipo or lion AA cell that has a included 1.5v regulator. They always output 1.5v until depleted and then can be charged via usb. NiMH AA are not recommended because the nominal voltage drops too quickly.
@@efixx i remember them well, just couldn't remember if it was myson or honeywell hence the zinc carbon comment, we had to replace loads in a h/a block due to clients replacing batteries with zinc carbon and as you imagine leaks and corroded terminals
So, you’ve had to drill two holes in the thermostat back plate to secure it to a uk standard back box. Excellent. That would piss me off to start with.😂
We run our CH systems off 240 volts and we now putting batteries in thermostats to make our CH work., When switch mode PS are so small now why batteries? . We we have 240volts ac available. Batteries are a backwards step.
Hi Robert. The battery use design is to allow greater compatibility with the many different installation situations. Its low energy design and e-paper display allows for a battery life of upto 3 years. If the installation is new or the thermostat been replaced has a neutral connection or there's a spare core which could be used as a neutral, then we have a hardwire version which shares all the same features and is compatible with the Valve. See here www.legrand.co.uk/products/user-interface/wiring-accessories/smarther-with-netatmo/
Generally this is a useful video but you skip some fairly important stages to do with the wiring of the thermostat. Like which ones are the control wires and what to do with the other ones.
i hate apps,and everything to control with your phone or tablet,so this is a good solution,however,my heating system is a modulating gas boiler,so i would need to install the other one i find it strange that the mudule that connects to the boiler has need of batteries,my system only has batteries in the protable transmitter section (wich you can place in any room), the receiver gets his power from the boiler,cheers
Hi Ronny B. The 'Relay' unit that connects to boiler in both standard and modulating products is power by 230v, not batteries. The thermostat itself is powered by batteries, this was to allow greater compatibility with the many different installation situations. Thanks to its low energy design and e-paper display the battery life can be upto 3 years.
The module that connects to the boiler doesn't need batteries - it's hard wired (there was two of them). Only the Room Stat had batteries the same as yours.
**HEY SIRI** - see this video to add the Netatmo to the App and enable voice control.
th-cam.com/video/MbGY_W3Hmns/w-d-xo.html
Hi Efixx, thank you for sharing this nice product + installation video.
Great work team EFIXX
We have a combi - do we need to hard wire the relay or can we just plug the relay in the wall?
Looks like this company actually put some thought into their products, some nice solutions applied to your usually problems.
In Wales heating controls still need to be notified, would this system have to be notified, as it can be battery powered and plugged in.
Are the two wires from the thermostat 230V?
I realllllyyy like the smart rad valve ! Great idea 👌🏼
Honeywell Evohome have had these for years.
I have them installed on my two remaining rads. (Everything else is UFH in my house controlled by my phone. )
@@GeeTheBuilder well I never knew that ! cool. How well do they work ?
@@Cablesmith about the same as normal TRVs - lol 😂
They are ok, but my personal view is that they appear to be the “runt of the litter”’of the otherwise superb Honeywell EvoHome system.
www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-home-evohome-radiator-zone-kit/1216h
@@GeeTheBuilder haha I was meaning the smart functions ? Does that work well or is it touchy like some smart stuff
@@Cablesmith Evohome is amazing. (I have no vested interests in it)
I have expanded it to cover my whole house. All rooms but two have UFH controlled by my phone. It’s very easy to control and reliability has been fantastic (I’ve had it running years) and I keep adding to it as I renovate and extend my house
The TRVs have a built in thermostat or (from memory) you can pair it with a remote wall mounted thermostat
Any TRV (Evohome or not) that has its own thermostat built in to the trv seems a bit dumb to me due to the obvious problem.
Great thermostat, i have one at home. Very intuitive and adaptive.
Thanks Brian - more Netatmo products to tempt you coming soon.
Hello, I'm using smart thermostat with the relay connected to boiler.
I'm looking for some smart valves aand I have a question: I found some second hand kits / starter packs with their own gateway device and I would like to know if the valves will be able to work with my existing setup, which is what I'd like (thermostat and gateway/relay on my boiler), OR , are these starter packs "locked" onto their bundled gateways?
Thank you
Jure
Looks like a nice system for retrofitting without too many modifications (if the previous technician didn't make a mess of the wiring ;-) ).
I'm personally not a big fan of anything using batteries, are there smart thermostats and valves that can be hardwired/plugged in?
Netatmo can be hard wired in
You always need to modify something and get power - especially when dealing with existing wiring. You can get sending devices which use kinetic energy or solar power - but these aren’t without problems.
Hi Candisa. If the original thermostat has a neutral connection or there's a spare core which could be used as a neutral, then we have a hardwire version which shares all the same features and is compatible with the Valve. See here www.legrand.co.uk/products/user-interface/wiring-accessories/smarther-with-netatmo/
Room thermostats that can be hard wired are plentiful. TRV's there aren't as so many installations now have radiators fed by plastic pipework if there was a fault with a mains fed valve there would be potential for a rather large piece of live metal in the home. You may find 0-24 volt contacts made in future but it's unlikely given how convenient batteries are as they can last 18-24 months. That said smart TRV's are a false economy if you have long curtains or the TRV is mounted on the end of the radiator with poor air flow around it, such as in a corner as they will shut down prematurely/ still not function in the way desired.
@@effervescence5664 Very good point there. Personally I'm not a huge fan of TRVs anyways as I think it's a much better idea to have true independent circuits per room with a thermostat that measures the actual room temperature at a relevant spot. However retrofitting true independent controls is often not realistic so I definitely understand the use of TRVs, *if* they are used correctly. The radiator becoming live shouldn't be an issue if the hardwired TRV is CPC connected to a circuit that is RCD protected. If we're realistic, smart TRVs save pennies over conventional TRVs, so I don't think it's a non-issue that they use batteries: by the time you saved the cost of a pair of batteries they'll need to be replaced, added on the initial investment of those smart TRVs...
Hey. Great presentation. Do you know if it has a multi-zone feature, so for example you could setup ROOM1 to be heated from 7:00-16:00, ROOM2 from 12:00-17:00, ROOM3 from 16:00-20:00, ROOM4 from 20:00 to 8:00 etc. ?
Yes when paired with smart radiator valves.
@@efixx What about underfloor heating ? is it actually supporting UFH ? I was thinking about Smart-modulating thermostat so it will support Opentherm.
Can the thermostat be wired?
I’m not happy with the battery performance, using it in a second home where the heating is not always on. The cold affects the performance of the batteries, will be testing the lithium batteries… but I’ll love to have a wired option
Hi, have you already installed a netatmo smart modulation thermostat? I installed it and it doesn't work properly. I can't control hot domestic water with it. The UNICAL KON-B boiler has an opentherm connection.
Hi i have a question :P my thermostat screen gets stuck as seen at 4.05 (the pairing part). Not sure why its not working because i had an identical model before, but the screen stopped working so i thought it would be easy to replace. I followed the officla instructions as well as your but nothing =( ANy help would be appreciated :P Does it maybe jsut take a really long time?
I wonder if the TRV's will at least default to fully open during summer months.
Hi Effer Vescence. The Valves don't automatically do this.
To leave the radiators fully open during the summer we suggest these 2 options:
- [Recommended] Create a weekly schedule with a constant heating period set to 30°C, which will allow you to keep the Valves both open and operational. In this case, you will probably receive the Auto-Care alert "Heating maintenance error"; you can ignore it or deactivate it ("My Account> Change my e-mail settings" menu).
- Apply a Manual Boost at 30°C, wait a few minutes for all the Valves to open, then remove the batteries.
I hope this helps
@@richardhopkins5452 It would remove the chances of annual calls at the start of winter heating periods of "help my radiator valves aren't working" due to them being jammed shut during the summer if the heads actuate too far. Obviously you don't want them sending a signal back to the heating system to bring the boiler on but you do want to avoid breakdowns caused by a TRV. Seems wasteful if twice a year you have to go around the house taking out and putting in the batteries to avoid it, which is one of the reasons our company doesn't put smart TRV's forward to customers over conventional ones.
@@effervescence5664 I have communicated the idea of a 'summer mode' feature with the development team. It is been looked into.
My Honeywell EvoHome (had for several years) has had Wireless TRVs for years.
You are suggesting what you show here is somehow new ?
The Netatmo is one of the few systems which allows integration with Apple home kit etc - but we’ll explore this later in the series.
@@efixx ah ok, wasn’t clear what you thought was genuinely new since as I said (and I assumed you knew) Evohome have had these TRVs for years.
Before replacing my heating I had the Honeywell (non smart ish battery valves) - do you pair your Honeywell evo with any other systems or apps?
I use a Netatmo and have what I think are some fairly unconventional programming on it which makes it one of the most comfortable heating systems I've installed. I'm not sure I would want two of them controlling separate zones with presumably individual calls to the system.
Hi Alan R. Please can you explain the reasons why you wouldn't want separate zones?
@@richardhopkins5452 you may have them running differently to how I have previously tried, but. Having two independent zones with separate calls meant you often had the boiler running nonstop as it was called by the individual zones and this was particularly exacerbated when closing doors(teenagers). This was in a 3 story house of 1500 sq ft, so looks different to your case but the transfer of heat always negates the increase in zones. Of course this changes completely with a more horizontal building but I am in something more like that now and have the system(normal rads) running more like an underfloor setup thanks to the Netatmo.
I'd like to see how you programme/program the stats, I've often thought of sharing as I've never seen anyone else do it.
@@ooslum There are number of ways the Smart Thermostat can reduce boiler cycling time. Firstly use the Hysteresis algorithm with a larger threshold setting instead of the advanced PID algorithm.
If you prefer the features of the advance algorithm then there's option of using the Minimum Heating Time setting which can be set upto 7 minutes.
@@richardhopkins5452 That wouldn't work with 2 thermostats though as they could be alternating to call for heat and fire the boiler. The second "problem" is that I went for the Netatmo precisely because of the small hysterisis . When the Netatmo was first released it used a PID algorithm that was quickly abandoned for, what I believe is a much better, heuristics. I actually try and run the boiler an rads as cool as possible by reducing the return stat to its lowest setting but this keeps the rads warm constantly through the day. This make the system much easier to balance and although it sound expensive to run like that a constantly occupied 100sqm house with temp from 20°at 6am to 22° at 10pm is around £200 annum. The only drawback, if it is, is that we couldn't heat hot water on the boiler loop as the the boiler temp would be too low so an immersion is used.
I’d like to see a video on the Netatmo smart modulating thermostat being fitted to an S plan system with an OpenTherm-capable boiler to achieve a hot water priority system and get the maximum fuel saving capability of such a boiler. Can this modulating thermostat actually apply OT to rapidly heat hot water to 60Celsius?
And does it provide a Hot Water schedule?
And from what I can see from the installation instructions there are only four wires from the relay to the boiler- 2 for power and 2 for OpenTherm modulation, so how the heck can the boiler output feed be switched between CH and HW??
looks good for heating control, what about the hot water control? i know your adding solar to do this(looking forward to this vid) just want to know how this will be controlled from the heating system or is there still a programmer as always excellent content 👍🏻
Thanks Derek - We’ve left the time clock in for the hot water at the moment. The solar PV option we’d like to use something like the Myenergi Eddi - then use the auxiliary contacts to swap between gas / electric. The Eddi has its own App which we would still be able to use to trigger the gas water heating. (Fingers crossed) - previous video on Eddi - th-cam.com/video/lVm0VUgmFfA/w-d-xo.html
Hi Derek cross.
The Smart Thermostat doesn't have hot water control. However, watch this space , we have a range of smart relays/contactors in all kinds of forms launching this year in the UK which can be set as water heating control to work long side the thermostat.
@@efixx i do love myenergi kit
@@richardhopkins5452 sounds good thanks for the update
Thanks Richard - that solves another problem we’d like to solve
Nice system, great for modding an existing system , its pretty comprehensive .. my only concern is the rad stats, would be interesting to see a long term test using both alkaline and the dreaded zinc carbon poundland batteries and see if the heat causes them to leak
Good point - I used to have an Honeywell version of a smart valve - batteries didn’t leak as they went flat very quickly. *Gordon
Hi Torchy. The Valve ships with two AA/LR06 alkaline batteries (1.5V) which is the recommend battery type and on average will last 2 years. This is very dependent on number of operations and the resistance of the radiator valves pin. We recommend regular lubrication with silicone grease to minimise friction.
For optimal performance, you can also use non-rechargeable 1.5V lithium batteries to power the Valves.
The Valve will give an early low batt warning via display and app to provide plenty of time to replace them. If they aren't replaced the display and app will notify the owner, the Valve will open and remain open to avoid potential damage to the heating system.
The best batteries for these are a newer type of lipo or lion AA cell that has a included 1.5v regulator. They always output 1.5v until depleted and then can be charged via usb. NiMH AA are not recommended because the nominal voltage drops too quickly.
@@efixx i remember them well, just couldn't remember if it was myson or honeywell hence the zinc carbon comment, we had to replace loads in a h/a block due to clients replacing batteries with zinc carbon and as you imagine leaks and corroded terminals
Do you have a link for these - we have quite a bit of equipment which could benefit from these.
So, you’ve had to drill two holes in the thermostat back plate to secure it to a uk standard back box. Excellent. That would piss me off to start with.😂
We’d go for the free standing case which is included in the box. That’s what the home owner has opted for in this install.
why does everything HAVE to be wireless?
We run our CH systems off 240 volts and we now putting batteries in thermostats to make our CH work., When switch mode PS are so small now why batteries? . We we have 240volts ac available. Batteries are a backwards step.
Hi Robert.
The battery use design is to allow greater compatibility with the many different installation situations. Its low energy design and e-paper display allows for a battery life of upto 3 years.
If the installation is new or the thermostat been replaced has a neutral connection or there's a spare core which could be used as a neutral, then we have a hardwire version which shares all the same features and is compatible with the Valve. See here www.legrand.co.uk/products/user-interface/wiring-accessories/smarther-with-netatmo/
Generally this is a useful video but you skip some fairly important stages to do with the wiring of the thermostat. Like which ones are the control wires and what to do with the other ones.
i hate apps,and everything to control with your phone or tablet,so this is a good solution,however,my heating system is a modulating gas boiler,so i would need to install the other one
i find it strange that the mudule that connects to the boiler has need of batteries,my system only has batteries in the protable transmitter section (wich you can place in any room), the receiver gets his power from the boiler,cheers
Hi Ronny B. The 'Relay' unit that connects to boiler in both standard and modulating products is power by 230v, not batteries. The thermostat itself is powered by batteries, this was to allow greater compatibility with the many different installation situations. Thanks to its low energy design and e-paper display the battery life can be upto 3 years.
The module that connects to the boiler doesn't need batteries - it's hard wired (there was two of them). Only the Room Stat had batteries the same as yours.
@@richardhopkins5452 aha, got the wrong impression then,thanx
@@effervescence5664 super, thanx
Why didn't you wear over shoe covers to protect the customer's carpet!!