Did you notice that stock brake bias on mid engined road cars is always very wrong? Without ABS they lock the front wheels way too early. Even after installing a brake balance controller some cars cannot be corrected enough. Most terrible car is the McLaren F1. I cannot imagine that Gordon Murray made the concept for that car with such a horrible brake balance. Same for many Ferrari's. I wonder what they would think in Maranello if just someone made the effort to test their cars in GT7. They would probably immediately revoke Sony's licence ...
I always put it on -2, it works well with every car and it makes the steering a lot easier (I use it only when the car already has it, so only gr. cars as far as I can remember)
This is how I have always understood it. That's why it is called brake balance rather than control or something. We refer to it as brake bias, which to me makes more sense to what it does.
I think this is very car dependant. The 458 for instance, is extremely difficult to drive on 0 BB. Set it 2 to the front though, the car drives noticeably different.
Gran Turismo’s explanation is not technically wrong, to be honest. It is just really bad written. If you check brake balances in Assetto Corsa Competizione you will notice that front engined cars like the Bentley and the Mercedes have 65 to 60% front brake bias, opposed to mid engined ones like the 488 and the McLaren 720S with 55 to 60% front brake bias (the 911’s wet preset comes at almost 50/50). Mid engined cars actually have more rear brake bias because of the weight of the engine, pressing on the wheels and giving them grip, preventing the lockup a little bit more compared to a Bentley, significantly lighter in the rear. Your tests are absolutely correct and the brakes work like you said, but the in-game explanation is just, like I said, technically right but written really bad for a beginner.
Thank you! I know absolutely nothing about tuning the cars in GT in relation to brake balance, sway bars and toe angle etc. I only do BOP races because it’s a more equal playing field for mechanical n00bs like me. Would love it if you had guides just like this for all the tuning options in GT7 👍🏻
I love your videos man. Jumping straight into the data, and demonstrations of how it's impacting driving, and how to usefully tune under varying conditions.=
The way they explained it isn't wrong in real life, because more weight and downforce help not to lock up the wheels in races where ABS isn't allowed, so do that to have maximum braking power without lock up (in real life) Because I have seen a video (can't remember where) of real life Audi R15 TDi Plus (LMP1 car 2010) the driver set more brake pressure to the rear while in the garage. I didn't understand it at first but now I believe because that LMP has more rear downforce, so they pin the rear wheels easier. and since ABS is prohibited for prototypes I think he needs that bias
Wonder if there ever gonna finish this game? So I can finally buy it I can’t justify spending what they want for this game if it was cheaper I would have bought it already and I think a lot of other hold outs would have too
I cannot believe you don't have more views or subscribers. You have the best info, educationally. Mistah_MCA does time saving not describing how to brake trail or ease on throttle "lap guides", but you have like a legit 100% classroom type educational. Professional. And Hawco1338 shows twitch streams, but you never know what he's doing. If you did a lap guide occasionally or a stream of gameplay and tell when you do good or bad or how you think you did and how well such was to do, then you could probably get more viewers and be the GOAT, lol. You're traction circle vid really helped me, though I'd kinda known just didn't think out everything,, I know Calculus and it explains rates of change, like thru a turn and what does what in short,, and i'd already gotten Gold for the Lewis Hamilton Time Trial at Nurburgring Nordschleife (and Monza + Big Willow,, almost Nurburgring GP) in GT Sport. You win the group 1 Mercedes Sauber C9 for getting gold at Nordschleife in that car, but all Golds gets 20mill cred n max creds go to 100mill,, but a Diamond would be awesome( beating Lewis' time)
I love driving my subaru impreza wrx but it has killer over steer when braking. I have tried moving the brake proportion back and forwards, lowering the suspension stiffening the dampers, putting ballast in the front but nothing I did would stop it from kicking its arse out. Eventually I took most of the racing suspension off and put fast road suspension back on and that seemed to help, then I stiffened the rear anti roll bar and that helped even more. I did notice that a lot of the cars had really bad lift off over steer and then i tried using the RX7 that I won and it was great, I could jump on the brakes and turn into the corner WITHOUT it trying to kill me. Were polyphonic trying to make the most hyper realistic driving sim by giving the cars flaws that meant you cant drive it like and arcade game. IDK, its frustrating and annoying not being able to drive the car as fast as they are capable.
I dont really think they meant to match the weight balance, but using it to counter the weight balance. It's still based on the weight balance. I also think that downforce levels might play a role in how you want to tune it.. if you have loads of rear downforce per a tune to meet a pp level or just how some cars have a much higher rear weight bias, having more towards the rear might help put down more braking force at speed.
The description isn't as clear as it could be, but it's talking about the load balance of the tires, as opposed to the weight. Weight balance is static, while the load balance is dynamic. This is why downforce, weight balance, the amount of steering angle, and the way the brake pedal is applied can all affect the way the tires are loaded (I believe tire pressure and width can also play a factor here). In that sense, the description is sensible. Ultimately, the balance of brake pressure vs tire load is what decides which axle will lock first, and what type of steering effect you experience.
I think you've misunderstood the explanation regarding brake balance and the weight distribution (or PD's description isn't clear) but I think it means the transfer of weight throughout the car under heavy braking affecting the handling rather than general weight distribution. Eg. Front bias will cause the nose to dip heavier than the rear, causing a shift in center of gravity and weight over the front wheels, which in turn asks more of the front tyres whilst braking hence the underseer
@@Doughtinator Agreed, with their numbering logic I'd rather call it a TWD (Tyre Wear Distributor)... Btw., it drives me crazy not having the BB adjustable in GT7. In GTS I got very used to it, and sometimes it was tricky to find the "right" balance between tyre wear and controllability of the car... I miss that. Happy Racing!
Have to agree, front engine, front wheel drive is going to have more weight transfer than rear engine rear drive. you want to get majority of your braking to the front as rearward braking is like pulling the hand brake on
Great stuff...I liked the side view to demonstrate what tyres were locking up first. The BB explanation is a weird one, I think it can be interpreted a few ways but definitely not the best explanation from the game Anyway big question is when will we be able to use BB in sport mode again!!
Thanks Womble. Yeah I’m starting to think lack of BB in sport mode is intensional rather than a mistake. Which is a shame. Default BB on some cars make them useless. And let’s not even talk about default setups on some MR cars 😳
@@Doughtinator I could understand no BB for races with street cars. But for actual race cars, BB is a normal thing. No excuse for PD to purposely leave it out. That said though, you still can't sell cars... It's almost like they just don't care 😮
Ok, I'm a bit confused now, I always thought MR cars would benefit more from a forward balance, if I'm understanding you correctly here, in some cases it's more beneficial to have it to the rear? I can't grasp that.
There may be occasions where you’d benefit from it. But rule of thumb. Send it to the end you’d prefer to lose traction on corner entry. And with MR cars that’s almost always to the front. ESPECIALLY in GT7 with the lift off oversteer.
Never understood this regarding BB or other restrictions on the BOP front, why allow us to tune GT cars up add turbos etc increase power and then restrict it all for racing, give us full power let us race them.......great vid and explanation by the way.......
What about brake distance? What can we do to help brake distance. My street car really struggles on the distance, I have to feather the hell out of the brake to get it to stop decently
Yeah there isn’t a great deal you can do to improve braking distances on the street cars. You can add the better brakes but I’ve not noticed huge improvements with them. 🤷🏻♂️
Okay, here is my take on the brake balancing But first…. ….was that car edited, or not? If it wasn’t edited, then I think I understand my results, or rather I think I might know why, but I am not sure. I tuned the weight, the height, and the camber before doing this, so please take that into account. And its the 2015 McLaren 650S GT3 And Racing Softs When all the way forward my braking was able to make tight turns properly a little too much, and coming out of the turn required too much negotiating for me. When I set it all the way to the back it did oversteer, but in a good way. It did better when I brought it down a little bit. I think that it has to do with weight, but it depends on the HP, Displacement, Height, and Cambers effect on that weight…. And possibly something to do with changing the center of gravity. I don’t know, I’ll ask my cousin, he would know. All I can say is if I am right then the brake setting for every car with the flavor preference for the individual driver. (Do you want more Salt or more Pepper with your Steak\Chicken\Pork\Fish) You also might have to do this after adding everything you want on the car EXCEPT for the LDS…. I “think”!!!😝 (Don’t quote me on that!!😂🤣😂🤣) You are right though, but as you said….they didn’t explain anything really, YOU did. So put everything you want on the car that will change HP, then add weight as needed, where needed…..though height maybe should have come before weight…anyway, you know the rest. That is at least what I “THINK”!!!! (No one’s ever accused me of thinking 🤪) Next is LDS
I hate to burst your whole thing here. But. GT has this weird visual bug where wheels spin incorrectly when you look at them. It's just a visual thing. It's not transferring to mechanical feel.
in GT6 you have a system called "Brake pressure" you can set from 0 to 10 on rear/front. (If you set 0-0 you will still brake and slow down but very weak) So you can do like 4 to the front and 4 to the rear with Gr.1-like cars, then you can play without ABS and you won't lock up. in GT3 cars usually you set 3 front and 2 rear (reduce rear for more stability), which means reduce brake pressure due to less downforce to not lock up. And for road cars like a Ferrari you would want 2 front and 1 rear. You can set 0 front and 10 rear and then brakes will work exactly like handbrake for drifting if you use steering wheel and don't have handbrake.
Also if you break at track limits, you can cheat the penalty system, same goes to deceleration. Just club the gears down so it hits the limiter. Unfortunately we can't damage the gearbox lol
@@Doughtinator me either! I haven’t played gt7 in months and won’t consider going back unless they fix this. Why would you make your new version worse than the previous????
Oversteering- set brake balance more to front
Understeering- set brake balance more to rear
Is always how I understood it
Yeah that’s the one 👍🏻
Did you notice that stock brake bias on mid engined road cars is always very wrong? Without ABS they lock the front wheels way too early. Even after installing a brake balance controller some cars cannot be corrected enough. Most terrible car is the McLaren F1. I cannot imagine that Gordon Murray made the concept for that car with such a horrible brake balance. Same for many Ferrari's. I wonder what they would think in Maranello if just someone made the effort to test their cars in GT7. They would probably immediately revoke Sony's licence ...
Haha. Yeah so many of the mid engine cars feel very off in GT7. Not sure why 🤷🏻♂️
I always put it on -2, it works well with every car and it makes the steering a lot easier (I use it only when the car already has it, so only gr. cars as far as I can remember)
This is how I have always understood it. That's why it is called brake balance rather than control or something. We refer to it as brake bias, which to me makes more sense to what it does.
Very good point 👍🏻
I think this is very car dependant. The 458 for instance, is extremely difficult to drive on 0 BB. Set it 2 to the front though, the car drives noticeably different.
Yeah absolutely 👍🏻
Gran Turismo’s explanation is not technically wrong, to be honest. It is just really bad written.
If you check brake balances in Assetto Corsa Competizione you will notice that front engined cars like the Bentley and the Mercedes have 65 to 60% front brake bias, opposed to mid engined ones like the 488 and the McLaren 720S with 55 to 60% front brake bias (the 911’s wet preset comes at almost 50/50).
Mid engined cars actually have more rear brake bias because of the weight of the engine, pressing on the wheels and giving them grip, preventing the lockup a little bit more compared to a Bentley, significantly lighter in the rear. Your tests are absolutely correct and the brakes work like you said, but the in-game explanation is just, like I said, technically right but written really bad for a beginner.
Yeah 100% with you on that 👍🏻
Thank you! I know absolutely nothing about tuning the cars in GT in relation to brake balance, sway bars and toe angle etc. I only do BOP races because it’s a more equal playing field for mechanical n00bs like me. Would love it if you had guides just like this for all the tuning options in GT7 👍🏻
Yeah I like BOP races as they are completely fair. I have some other videos on other settings. I play to get through them all eventually 👍🏻
I love your videos man. Jumping straight into the data, and demonstrations of how it's impacting driving, and how to usefully tune under varying conditions.=
Thanks man. Really appreciate your kind words 👍🏻👍🏻
The way they explained it isn't wrong in real life, because more weight and downforce help not to lock up the wheels in races where ABS isn't allowed, so do that to have maximum braking power without lock up (in real life)
Because I have seen a video (can't remember where) of real life Audi R15 TDi Plus (LMP1 car 2010) the driver set more brake pressure to the rear while in the garage.
I didn't understand it at first but now I believe because that LMP has more rear downforce, so they pin the rear wheels easier.
and since ABS is prohibited for prototypes I think he needs that bias
You make some good points.
It's a joke you can't use it in sport mode bop,great tips chris
Yeah. Not sure if that was a mistake or a conscious choice by PD for that. 🤷🏻♂️
Wonder if there ever gonna finish this game? So I can finally buy it I can’t justify spending what they want for this game if it was cheaper I would have bought it already and I think a lot of other hold outs would have too
Yeah. Still needs a bit of polish…
I cannot believe you don't have more views or subscribers. You have the best info, educationally. Mistah_MCA does time saving not describing how to brake trail or ease on throttle "lap guides", but you have like a legit 100% classroom type educational. Professional. And Hawco1338 shows twitch streams, but you never know what he's doing. If you did a lap guide occasionally or a stream of gameplay and tell when you do good or bad or how you think you did and how well such was to do, then you could probably get more viewers and be the GOAT, lol. You're traction circle vid really helped me, though I'd kinda known just didn't think out everything,, I know Calculus and it explains rates of change, like thru a turn and what does what in short,, and i'd already gotten Gold for the Lewis Hamilton Time Trial at Nurburgring Nordschleife (and Monza + Big Willow,, almost Nurburgring GP) in GT Sport. You win the group 1 Mercedes Sauber C9 for getting gold at Nordschleife in that car, but all Golds gets 20mill cred n max creds go to 100mill,, but a Diamond would be awesome( beating Lewis' time)
Awesome. Thanks for the positive feedback. Always nice to hear my explanations are helpful and appreciated 👍🏻👍🏻
great insight, always appreciate the work put in these guides!
Thanks man. Always nice to hear 👍🏻👍🏻
I love driving my subaru impreza wrx but it has killer over steer when braking. I have tried moving the brake proportion back and forwards, lowering the suspension stiffening the dampers, putting ballast in the front but nothing I did would stop it from kicking its arse out.
Eventually I took most of the racing suspension off and put fast road suspension back on and that seemed to help, then I stiffened the rear anti roll bar and that helped even more. I did notice that a lot of the cars had really bad lift off over steer and then i tried using the RX7 that I won and it was great, I could jump on the brakes and turn into the corner WITHOUT it trying to kill me.
Were polyphonic trying to make the most hyper realistic driving sim by giving the cars flaws that meant you cant drive it like and arcade game.
IDK, its frustrating and annoying not being able to drive the car as fast as they are capable.
I dont really think they meant to match the weight balance, but using it to counter the weight balance. It's still based on the weight balance. I also think that downforce levels might play a role in how you want to tune it.. if you have loads of rear downforce per a tune to meet a pp level or just how some cars have a much higher rear weight bias, having more towards the rear might help put down more braking force at speed.
Yeah. I think you’re right. But is just tune for under or oversteer. That’s what it’s most useful for. (And tire wear too)
@@Doughtinator the way they worded it might not be the best lol
The description isn't as clear as it could be, but it's talking about the load balance of the tires, as opposed to the weight. Weight balance is static, while the load balance is dynamic. This is why downforce, weight balance, the amount of steering angle, and the way the brake pedal is applied can all affect the way the tires are loaded (I believe tire pressure and width can also play a factor here). In that sense, the description is sensible. Ultimately, the balance of brake pressure vs tire load is what decides which axle will lock first, and what type of steering effect you experience.
Idk what it is wit this game but cars darting to the side when hitting the brakes is frustrating
Brake balance forwards and weight distribution forwards will help here. Is it any car specifically?
@@Doughtinator at the moment just my Ferrari F8
I think you've misunderstood the explanation regarding brake balance and the weight distribution (or PD's description isn't clear) but I think it means the transfer of weight throughout the car under heavy braking affecting the handling rather than general weight distribution. Eg. Front bias will cause the nose to dip heavier than the rear, causing a shift in center of gravity and weight over the front wheels, which in turn asks more of the front tyres whilst braking hence the underseer
Yeah probably. However I still think their ‘numbering’ logic is way off.
Give us a percentage number instead of a -/+ number.
@@Doughtinator Agreed, with their numbering logic I'd rather call it a TWD (Tyre Wear Distributor)...
Btw., it drives me crazy not having the BB adjustable in GT7. In GTS I got very used to it, and sometimes it was tricky to find the "right" balance between tyre wear and controllability of the car... I miss that. Happy Racing!
Have to agree, front engine, front wheel drive is going to have more weight transfer than rear engine rear drive. you want to get majority of your braking to the front as rearward braking is like pulling the hand brake on
I keep mine at -2
Great stuff...I liked the side view to demonstrate what tyres were locking up first.
The BB explanation is a weird one, I think it can be interpreted a few ways but definitely not the best explanation from the game
Anyway big question is when will we be able to use BB in sport mode again!!
Thanks Womble.
Yeah I’m starting to think lack of BB in sport mode is intensional rather than a mistake. Which is a shame. Default BB on some cars make them useless. And let’s not even talk about default setups on some MR cars 😳
@@Doughtinator I could understand no BB for races with street cars. But for actual race cars, BB is a normal thing. No excuse for PD to purposely leave it out. That said though, you still can't sell cars... It's almost like they just don't care 😮
Absolutely. It’s just like TCS. Most race cars (that allow it) have it adjustable on the fly.
no brake balance in sports mode, frustrating and out of touch once again.
Ok, I'm a bit confused now, I always thought MR cars would benefit more from a forward balance, if I'm understanding you correctly here, in some cases it's more beneficial to have it to the rear? I can't grasp that.
No you’re right. MR with forward bias. GT advice is to match weight balance to brake balance which I think is wrong.
@@Doughtinator great, thanks, right I'd been doing it wrong for 2+ years, lol.
There may be occasions where you’d benefit from it. But rule of thumb. Send it to the end you’d prefer to lose traction on corner entry. And with MR cars that’s almost always to the front. ESPECIALLY in GT7 with the lift off oversteer.
Is there any correlation between this on BRF setting in fanatec wheel? What is your brf setting if you are using Fanatec?
Never understood this regarding BB or other restrictions on the BOP front, why allow us to tune GT cars up add turbos etc increase power and then restrict it all for racing, give us full power let us race them.......great vid and explanation by the way.......
Thanks man. Yeah the lack of tuning in sport mode is a little strange. Surely at least one race each week should have tuning 🤷🏻♂️
What about brake distance? What can we do to help brake distance. My street car really struggles on the distance, I have to feather the hell out of the brake to get it to stop decently
Yeah there isn’t a great deal you can do to improve braking distances on the street cars. You can add the better brakes but I’ve not noticed huge improvements with them. 🤷🏻♂️
Okay, here is my take on the brake balancing
But first….
….was that car edited, or not?
If it wasn’t edited, then I think I understand my results, or rather I think I might know why, but I am not sure.
I tuned the weight, the height, and the camber before doing this, so please take that into account.
And its the
2015 McLaren 650S GT3
And Racing Softs
When all the way forward my braking was able to make tight turns properly a little too much, and coming out of the turn required too much negotiating for me.
When I set it all the way to the back it did oversteer, but in a good way. It did better when I brought it down a little bit.
I think that it has to do with weight, but it depends on the HP, Displacement, Height, and Cambers effect on that weight…. And possibly something to do with changing the center of gravity. I don’t know, I’ll ask my cousin, he would know.
All I can say is if I am right then the brake setting for every car with the flavor preference for the individual driver. (Do you want more Salt or more Pepper with your Steak\Chicken\Pork\Fish)
You also might have to do this after adding everything you want on the car EXCEPT for the LDS…. I “think”!!!😝 (Don’t quote me on that!!😂🤣😂🤣)
You are right though, but as you said….they didn’t explain anything really, YOU did.
So put everything you want on the car that will change HP, then add weight as needed, where needed…..though height maybe should have come before weight…anyway, you know the rest. That is at least what I “THINK”!!!! (No one’s ever accused me of thinking 🤪)
Next is LDS
My question is what ever happened to brake sensitivity adjustment??
Yeah that is defo missing from GT7. No way to change that.
The worst handling car in GT7 stock is the Ferrari F8.... Unbelievably bad
Dude no it’s not if u know how to drive it’s great 😅
@@henryroberson702 yeah I've actually changed my mind since the update ages ago. This comment was pre physics update
I basically set nearly all cars to rear 3
Good info mate. I've been trying to figure out and test this brake thing for awhile.
Glad to help man 👍🏻👍🏻
This was the best gt7 video I've seen in a while. Great breakdown!
Thanks man. Really appreciate your feedback 👍🏻👍🏻
Bang on!
Like deployed 👍
😎🎙🏎✅
Thanks Julian 👍🏻👍🏻
I stopped using coz u cant use it in dailies and learned how to handle all cars without so i didnt miss it in dailies wen racing mate 😉
Likewise 👍😁
@@SSRT_JubyDuby8742 ivdint miss it all now tbh mate
Yeah for sure. But it does exclude some cars from dailys because they are almost undriveable without 🤷🏻♂️
@@Doughtinator yeah I suppose matey
They still don’t have BB in dailies definitely not worth $60/70/90usd I was thinking about buying the game but not now
I hate to burst your whole thing here. But. GT has this weird visual bug where wheels spin incorrectly when you look at them. It's just a visual thing. It's not transferring to mechanical feel.
Yeah it may not be perfect representation but the feeling and effects are still valid.
in GT6 you have a system called "Brake pressure" you can set from 0 to 10 on rear/front. (If you set 0-0 you will still brake and slow down but very weak)
So you can do like 4 to the front and 4 to the rear with Gr.1-like cars, then you can play without ABS and you won't lock up.
in GT3 cars usually you set 3 front and 2 rear (reduce rear for more stability), which means reduce brake pressure due to less downforce to not lock up.
And for road cars like a Ferrari you would want 2 front and 1 rear.
You can set 0 front and 10 rear and then brakes will work exactly like handbrake for drifting if you use steering wheel and don't have handbrake.
Yeah maximum brake pressure is a setting missing from GT7. With with ABS default so effective it’s not really needed.
Thank you 👍
Do an updated version of this please....
This should still be valid 👍🏻
Does brake balance work in daily race mode
Afraid it doesn’t. If the race is fixed setup then back balance is also fixed. 🤷🏻♂️
@@Doughtinator ahhh what a shame,I thought could change brake balance in gt sport..gt7 need to address this
Yeah. A bit of an oversight I think.
So helpful thank you!
Glad to help man 👍🏻
I miss in dailies races
Yeah. Feels like I’m missing an arm without BB.
Cheers Chris 👌
Glad to help 👍🏻👍🏻
i usually change to rear for wet racing or high powered cars, but i find Zero to be poor braking, but ill test later
Interested to know your feedback.
Also if you break at track limits, you can cheat the penalty system, same goes to deceleration. Just club the gears down so it hits the limiter. Unfortunately we can't damage the gearbox lol
Yeah there are many exploits in GT7 for sure.
The fact that brake balance can’t be used in sport mode bop races shows what a joke this game is.
Yeah. I still can’t believe it’s not there 😳🤷🏻♂️
@@Doughtinator me either! I haven’t played gt7 in months and won’t consider going back unless they fix this. Why would you make your new version worse than the previous????
Agree. Especially since stock brake bias is so wrong in mid engined cars.
Sport mode bop races?
Brake balance is often available. Some weeks no, about 50% recently