How Much Difference Does Weight Make On A Climb?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- Many cyclists obsess over weight, and when cycling uphill, a rider’s power-to-weight ratio is key. The higher your power-to-weight, the faster you will climb. But by how much? Does weight really make that much of a difference? While we were in Spain, we decided to do some science and put it to the test on the epic Alto de Velefique climb.
Check out the Alto de Velefique climb on Komoot 👉 gcntech.co/Kom...
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Leave us a comment below!
Were you surprised by the results? Have they changed how you view weight?
1kg is too small an increase to see any significant difference? how about adding 5kg/10kg.. would make for more interesting viewing for the fatties like me out there that come in at 113kg.. haha
I’m not surprised actually as when going on rides in the hills with my 60kg to 85kg mates it doesn’t take long for me to be left behind on the climbs at 100kg.
Be interesting to see you guys do this adding stuff least 5kg, or punish yourself with 10kg.
moral of the story: ride more, spend less money on gear
No, but can you do some more 'science' and compare normal bike with your highly praised aero bike over 14km distance, not 40k or 50k? then compare the difference? You keep bragging abut 4 seconds saved over 40k TT at 50kph, who on earth rides at these speeds, apart form TTs?
No, it Was that what was expected increase the weight by 1.25% and you have 1.25% more rolling resitance and 1.25% more needed energy to bring that weight up the Hill, the aerodynamic drag increases not so you would be much less slower than 1.25%. If the climb is steeper you will get closer to the 1.25% and if its flat you will be close to 0% .
That you will be faster on a climb when your baseline is 3w/kg and you increase Power by 5w and weight by 1kg you increase the Overall Power to weight ratio...
Ollie this week: 1kg? No big deal.
Ollie next week: This new frameset is ONE HUNDRED GRAMS lighter than last year's!
😀
I mean, framesets come in at a couple hundred grams as is so yeah that's a very big deal
Cyclist Ollie vs marketing spokesman Ollie
@@Paganizondaf650 doing a video for a certain topic Ollie vs. Ollie stating facts. If the frame is factually 100 grams lighter then it is 100 grams lighter.
If people think lighter components are just marketing then they should just buy steel bikes. Tougher when crashed, cheaper too.
@@sepg5084 I don't think anyone thinks its JUST marketing, basic physics tells you that its not. But when a bike company tries to persuade you to spend an extra £1000+ on the new model over the now heavily discounted older model because they shaved 120g off the frame, when the average persons weight can fluctuate by kilograms a day, that is definitely mostly marketing.
On the one hand, this video shows me that investing in lighter components is a waste of money, on the other hand it shows me that I would have already reached my year goal if I wasn‘t so fat. At the point where I am, loosing a kilo is much easier than adding 5W to my FTP.
Better yet, add 10 watts AND lose 5 kilos.
@@danielakerman8241 Work in progress. :)
This means for a lighter rider, the value of saving 1kg is greater than that for a heavier rider?
Namely, 1kg for a 60kg rider is "more" than 1kg for a 80kg rider. (1.67% vs 1.25%)
So light rider invests light components would get a better return in term of climbing speed.
(p.s. I'm a 60kg rider :))
Get a life people !!!! and ride !!!! your not in the Tour de france !!!! are you ive never read so much woffle in my life
As another 60 kg rider, yup that’s exactly it. I hate the notion that it’s easier to lose weight off your body than off your bike…not for me! I don’t have a spare kilo to shed on my body (no, literally, I have to work to maintain my weight), so my only place to lose weight is my bike. When my all-road bike is nearly 12 kg I don’t think it’s being a “weight weenie” to try to get it to 10 kg; that’s 3 percent of the system mass for me!
@@AndyLeeJordan Get a life !!!! are you competing in the Tour de France , if so Im sure your team manager will get you a lighter bike although im sure you have the best there is at the moment ,,, ,, get a life my friend ,, I can assure you adding 5 kilos to your bike would make do difference
@@markthoughtswithukrainemas2072 Dude you are the one that needs to get a life. Some cyclists enjoy discussing stats, tech etc. and they want to improve as cyclists. No I'm not competing in the TDF but I am competing against myself, and it matters TO ME. If it doesn't matter to you thats fine, but don't tell other people what you think should be important to them thats just arrogant. You sound like a whiny teenager that desperately needs to let the world know he doesn't care. People that don't care about something don't feel the need to keep telling everyone.
@@AndyLeeJordan most people are 1/2 your weight again…. so they can all lose weight but won’t.
I reduced my weight from 82kg to 78kg and have gone from dreading every hill on my ride to the point now that I can't wait for the next hill.
So 8.8lbs of weight made alot of difference to you.
@@fender1000100 So much so that I ride more and reduced my weight further.
@@nicktheodorou3474 same here, as a regular person your best option to make climbing easier is to just lose weight by riding lots.
@@elliotcowell3139 Agreed! I was at 78kg when I posted here last and as a result wanted to ride and climb more. Now I am at 72kg and my climbing has improved further and I want to spend more time on the bike. The cost of going from a 10kg bike to a 9kg was about $1,000. The cost is exponential to reduce it further. When further weight loss affects muscle mass and overall performance it's time to spend money on the bike 😊.
@@fender1000100 -
"a
lot"
is
two
separate
words
Great video guys, I love the way you got to the top then casually mention your going down to add a further kilo and do it again. If I went down after that climb to add a kilo, that kilo would be burger and chips and I'd be away home for a good sleep 🤣
I would live to see what adding 5w would do to time, but weather conditions would have to be very similar, maybe repeat this experiment and do third run on same day?
I find if you Fart rather than add 5 watts it makes a difference !!!! get a life pall and RIDE
super interested in the 5W increase test.
And maybe to note: it might be worth mentioning that reducing (useless) body weight (instead of spending money on lighter tech) is also an option for many :)
fully agree: cheaper, more healthy and more fun to bike with less weight on the woman / man.
I remember during my MTB times a friend was so proud of his expensive new carbon frame MTB.
Until I said "your weight (without bike) is much more than mine with bike. Save the money, eat more healthy and/or and make a diet"
@@wolfgangl5590 true, although if that awesome bike stimulated him to ride more, it could also have an effect on body weight ;)
Really enjoyed this, I’d love to see it across a wider range of weight differences and power numbers
Lol on your full system weights! I reignited my cycling obsession, like many, during the first lockdown. My personal weight was 20kg more than Alex’s system weight. Hills were very hard indeed. 2 years later, my bike is still heavy, but I’m far more svelte. Now sneaking under 80kg, so my system weight is now 89kg. Thank goodness I’m built! Got a few more Kg to shift yet, but dropping a load of weight REALLY is a benefit!!
Same. I've already dropped 5 kg and am now at 89 kg. Looking to get down to 80 kg. It's slowly getting easier to go up the hills.
Curious to know whether the 1kg weight penalty was less with Alex not because he was putting out 300w rather than 250w but rather, because 1kg is proportionately less for Alex (whose total weight 88.4kg) vs. Ollie (82kg). Nice video that puts things in perspective.
Isn't the difference in proportion only around 1%.
This is actually a really good episode. I want to see you guys do 5 more watts with the extra kilo. And one with aero bike vs climbing bike at same wattage.
Love your work, never an episode goes by I don't learn something new and thought provoking.
Imagine what a pro will pay for a 35 second advantage on a long climb like this. These differences are enormous or subtle depending on who you might ask.
Well you can clearly see what they're willing to pay. They're willing to hire someone to temporarily carry their bottles for them and lose the 1kg that way
Significant for a pro, immaterial for the average rider.
I have to fly 2hrs to find my nearest 1hr climb. For 99% of us, it makes absolutely no difference
@@saracen888 I have a 1250 m elevation and 15 km long climb 1 km from my home 😅
1kg and 5W? Sweet. My weight plus the bike is easily over 120kg, unfortunately the bike already is a carbon 😀
Stay peddling, not everyone built the same, plenty of people at 100kg and over with low body fat
@@tomasmcenery5905 Thanks, my ideal weight is around 95 kg (being 193 cm tall) so that makes me still over 105 kg on bike and fully equipped. So while I agree with you, I guess what I wanted to say is that for me and similary built people 1 kg of weight is just a funny number. Actually 10 kg of a difference would be much more interesting and motivational, I think.
Same here, 102kg body, 8kg bike. Water 1kg, 4kg bag including tools pump etc, then add a few kg’s for hat shoes gloves, GoPro’s cycle computer lights and energy gels dont really think 1kg will make difference
i was 90kg oct 20. 2021, 187 watts ft
after 4mnth training i am now
78kg and 271watts ftp.
just keep on riding 🚴♂️
@@retroonhisbikes 4 kg bag? Are you carrying an entire toolbox? :D
Quick math: The average watts are time-based. You probably put more power on the steeper parts and less on the flatter part.
Try again with the same power during the whole climb and total time will be longer.
We do this naturally to push harder when the grade is rising, but it would be a nice experiment to do!
That's not how averages work. If you ride 10 miles at exactly 100w your average power is 100w, if you ride the first 5 miles at 200w and the second 5 miles at 50w you still average 100w, and providing nothing about you, the bike or the conditions change between rides your time would be the same. Besides they where using power meters and keeping to the same power at all parts of the climb so they already did what you are asking.
@@Bikey_McBeardface No it’s a regular arithmetic average, so it depends on the time spend at each wattage. Doesn’t care about the distance. 10min at 50W and 10min at 200W will average 125W, while we cannot predict what will be 5mi at 50W and 5mi at 200W.
@@cypercharged No, watch the video again they already did the experiment the way you are asking them to. They took a steady pace remained seated and held their wattages across the whole climb, sure they probably didn't quite keep it bang on the whole time which is why the average was taken over the SET distance not time spent at certain wattages. Do you think Dr Oliver Bridgewood Ph.D. would use a time based average when the distance is the only non variable?
I asked chatgpt whether I should get a lighter bike or lose weight. Unsurprisingly it said the best option was to lose weight. I did that by 13kg, and got a cheaper older rim brake bike at 7kg rather than the 13kg of my previous bike. That is a noticeable difference! For me it's a game of maximise on all fronts as best you can. Bike weight as a percentage of total system weight seems to make a difference (maybe only mentally) for sure. Gearing for efficient cadence is important too...
The take-away:
Ride an entry-level bike (upgrading not for performance but for comfort/ aesthetic) until the improvement of a preferred performance metric (e.g. FTP) begins to wane; despite a considerable amount of training- upon discovering this asymptote one would be, finally, most benefitted making a timely investment in performance-oriented upgrades that will aid in one's never-ending endeavor to bridge the gap betwixt their current upper-physiological limit and that of their maximum theoretical.
Impressive power numbers, lads. It would've been VERY impressive if you added the 5 watts and did the climb 2 more times, though.
Mate it's a program. They probably did it the following day after resting in a 5star hotel! 😂
Nearly a minute for 1kg is more significant than I would have imagined. Thanks for doing this. Tough job you have. ;)
It shows this:
The more power you can put on the pedal, the less the time gains are from being 1 kg lighter. All the discussions about 55s being a huge deal in the pro peloton are only half the deal, I think. Because, let´s face it, these guys put very different numbers down. Would love to see the 5w video as well! If it shows the math being true, the simple solution is this:
Instead of losing a kilogram for a maybe 4 digit amount of money on your bike, take that money, go to a nice training camp, eat some good food, have a nice time and increase your power output. Because this is what really will make you faster: work. Also most of us can easily lose 1kg, totally free of charge.
Of course Pros obsess about every second. But these guys are already on the edge on the training part. You and I are not.
It is kind of clear. Just round the numbers.
100 kg System weight with 300 watts. That’s 3 watt per kg.
So no surprise that 5 watt more is more effective than 1 kg less.
the weight matters most for pro's because they can go to the absolute limit and likely be stuck at that same number for a long time, so in order to get faster the have to cut weight. just adding 5watts onto your ftp can be really hard once you're very fit. you can say the same thing about race cars, it's all about fine tuning.
I love the way you think Tim. This is what I preach to my pals DAILY.
@@roaming_ren3972 I sell bikes and have this discussion as well on a daily basis. People refusing perfectly fine middle class bikes because they are "too heavy". I mean, don´t get me wrong, I love nice bikes, big wheels and all that stuff. But the point is: The only reason to buy a nice expensive bike is that you want to have one. And this reason is perfectly fine, if you can afford it. It feels nice. Like driving a Porsche to work in a big city. Not gonna make you faster, maybe feels a bit nicer. All the other reasons do not matter for 99% of us. Most Watts you can save on your bikes is a nice cleaning on a regular basis anyway ;)
@@darinsteele7091 yeah, my point exactly. But this video (and all the other videos on TH-cam) don´t adress the pro´s. They adress the average Joe´s (like me, for example). And I can easily see myself increasing my ftp adding Watts :-D
Great video as always lovely neighbors! Would love to see that 5watts extra climb, but also extra watts required to counteract for less tyre pressure, or wider winter tyres. That may well show us its best to keep our tyres inflated than spending 3 grand to reduce a kg!
It's not just about the weight of the bike, the stiffness of the frame is also important because the transfer of force when pedaling depends on how stiff is the frame
Yes would love to see an additional 5w video and then a 10w video to gauge how exponential or linear the change is.
7:42 Yes I think cyclists are far too weight obsessed per our machines. Some whipersnapper asked me about the weight of the AA batteries I have on all the lights on my bikes; my reply was have you ever ridden with a generator? Talk about drag and poor wattage (
Loved the upgrade of the overall quality of video, always provided useful information for cyclist, thanks GCN!
Firstly, I would have thought fatigue would be a factor on the second attempt, especially on such a long climb. As for time differences, this is surely yet more evidence that for touring and other non-competitive situations, the weight advantage of aluminium over steel is irrelevant (for those on low budgets, carbon is in another galaxy).
GCN should consider 1kg of dead weight vs 1kg of metabolically active tissue in the legs that goes towards powering the bike. How many watts can you gain with increased muscle mass in the legs?Could switch the paradigm away from “lightness” as the end goal
Yeah I’d say most people’s “problem” weight isn’t commonly going to be focussed on the legs, more than likely it’s dead weight carried around the midsection
I remember reading a study where some people far cleverer people than me worked out that ‘on average’, with all things considered equal (rolling resistance, weather, road surface etc), and assuming equal power output, a 1kg difference in total weight would equate to 7secs lost per km. So when I cycle my local climb (I live in the French Alps and the closest ‘good’ climb is a Cat 1 = 13km, avg 7%) with my cycling buddy, who is between 15-20kgs lighter than me, I tend to be up to half an hour slower. That’s the excuse I use, anyhow.
The article further pointed out that using the most basic principles of physics and human physiology, every gram of muscle a cyclist has over his/her 69kg naked weight, cannot produce enough power to shift that muscle up the hill as efficiently as the first 69kgs. It is a diminishing return and optimum climbing weight should be 69kgs or less…
some context is needed i believe. Ollie added 1.6% weight when he added the kilo. Alex added 1.3% when he added the kilo. They were both putting out the same power in proportion to their Functional Threshold. Ollie was 1.2% slower, Alex was 1.1% slower. The conclusion is two fold: The obvious one is that a kilo of dead weight does have an effect but is negligible outside of the pro tour ranks, The second is that the more of a weight weenie you are the more of a weight weenie you have to be because a small weight has a larger effect. So if you are light you actually have more reason to get a light bike than a bigger rider!
This is THE BEST cycling channel….. In the worrrrrld 🌍 Keep it up team!
Great video guys. Yep lease make the 5w video too. Love all this testing and info. Keep up the good work.
glad to see that Ollie is referring 1kg as MASS and not weight! good man. 5W on 250W is 2% while 1kg on 82 is 1.2% so it should be faster assuming rolling resistance stays approx the same. Do 10kg like the average fat cyclist (like myself!) and allow us to see why we get left at the bottom of a hill having pulled those little billy goats the whole way...not that I'm bitter. Great video...love the science.
Yeah like other people have stated, it's most noted in quick bursts of power, that lack of responsiveness is what you feel.
Rather than do a 5W video, I'd love to see you using some Conti 4 Seasons tyres or something similar that sucks up 5-10W of power. Great demo of what a system upgrade can do.
Yeh loved to see the extra 5w. Should be an interesting result. Great job guys
I’m more shocked by 12 minutes diff between the rides pushing 250 vs 300 watts than a diff because of extra 1 kg.
The time isn't right for Alex. check his Strava - it was almost 50 minutes...
20% power difference is 11.4mins, not far off….
Joke corner...., but on a serious note..., what weight would you say you are before your bowl movement that you are after your bowl movement 🤔..., that Ib or two can in many case's see exceptional gains in one's performance so consider this aspect in how ever outlandish this may sound...., 👊🏾👍🏾
Yes, please make vid with 5W more power. Also would love some more geeky permutations such as using a slightly heavier, more aero bike as mentioned. More Geekery please.
The formula for weight difference, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, is quite simple (correct me, anyone, if I err). For example, in a total system weighing 200 lbs. where you add 2 more pounds you should be slowed by 2/200th (2 divided by 200) or 1% on average.
I calculated a slow down of 47 seconds in the example in this video, given the initial time estimate. I didn't do the simple math for the real initial, non-extra weight times.
So, unless you're racing, a situation where every thing matters, it's not much to concern oneself with...except for the extremes (i.e., adding 50 lbs., or kilograms (same formula)).
I’m not a mathematician nor physicist, but I think it’s even less than that. Gravitational resistance is only a part of the picture, along with aerodynamics, rolling resistance, hysteretic losses among others. If we follow your argument, but assume weight only accounts for half of the resistance on a climb, a 1 % reduction in weight would only yield a 0.5 % improvement. Of course, your main point still stands, it doesn’t matter unless you’re racing at a high level.
@@Martin-yv8ib Remember, though, this was a comparison and, like I stated, "all other things being equal". So, in a "pure" comparison the formula is valid though there'd be a slight increase in friction (rolling resistance), negligible differences in air resistance (not much of a factor at most hill climbing speeds), and the minor non-linearities should be, well, quite minor.
But this is a nitpick. As you agreed, the weight changes make for far less differences than most people assume.
A few ideas for you... Is climbing in the dark faster as there are fewer visual cues to how hard the climb is? 1kg is a big bottle-ish, so if I drink that before the climb or leave it in the bottle what difference does that make. Assume there would be performance benefits of drinking the water? If I lose 1kg of body weight what difference does that make? (Not strapping 1kg on a person whose not used to carrying that extra weight). Lowest weight makes sense for PR chasers 👍 In a group, no difference at all possibly? Do slower climbers perform better riding with faster climbers?
Since bikes have gone to disc brakes I’ve noticed that most sales outlets are reluctant to post the weight of a new bike. The only reason I can deduce from this is that a disc brake bike is much heavier than a rim brake bike unless you want to spend mega bucks to buy one with all the lightest equipment. I’d say weight always matters. It can be the difference between having a heart attack and not. I’m lucky, not many hills where I live but being on the coast the wind more than makes up for the lack of hills.
Switching from my light carbon bike to my alloy winter bike which is about 1.5kg heavier the only real difference I noticed was short, sharp out the saddle climbs where the edge and nimbleness of the light bike isn’t there. Riding up long climbs in the saddle the difference isn’t really noticeable unless you’re absolutely gunning for it.
But... I wonder what the difference in time might be? I lost a lot of weight a couple of years ago and one thing I noticed, it doesn't get easier, you just get quicker. So, it feels like nothing changes until you look at average speeds or segment times.
It’s just happened to me - I’ve lost 11ish kgs and was looking for easier climbing. Instead, I got quicker climbing. I’d rather have easier, but the lizard brain just churns you up the hill the same.
@@yakoridesagain It never gets easier... you just get faster. You should know that quote.;-)
@@AndyCrowther if it’s a bit slower, does it really matter? For me, times only matter as a measure of my overall fitness, so I’d only compare efforts under same circumstances with same equipment. But if I want exercise or to enjoy an awesome ride, the difference in time between two bikes won’t really matter.
@@danielakerman8241 I guess you only generally ride alone then? I often ride in groups and I want to be able to (comfortably) keep up with them.
i remember trying to race when young after putting on a few extra kg. it killed me uphills. now i am old and fat, but still make it up the hills at a crawl lol
I'm there with you Brother. Just keep riding. Speed no longer belongs to us, but endurance does.
Great message. Thanks for posting this.
To be honest, to every cyclist except those who are competitive cyclists, the weight and time issue is irrelevant. Unless you’re racing, the time just doesn’t matter. Buy a bike that’s geared to allow you to finish the rides you want to take. End of story. The gear ratio that allows you to complete the climb, get the exercise and have a good time is way more important than a kilo or finishing 50 seconds quicker.
If time doesn't matter there is no point in using a roadbike.
@@log_it8282 sports car can cruise, people can enjoy different speed. It’s not necessarily to flat out every time when behind the wheel
@@log_it8282 I disagree. A road bike is more comfortable and easier to ride for something like this than, say, a mountain bike. It’s the right tool. But one doesn’t need the lightest, fastest, most expensive version of that tool unless they’re racing. A lot of recreational cyclists out there dropping close to $10k on carbon race bikes with groupsets they can’t even push up the climb, when what they should really be doing is saving their money and using a group set that allows them to ride where they want.
@@danielakerman8241 Im the opposite, my MTB is far more comfortable than my road bike. Everything depends on actual bike fit regardless of bike type
@@rcs2003 in that case, I 100% agree with you. Ride what gets you there in the most enjoyable way, and forget about weight/times.
Weight definitely helps. I am 5 foot 8 and I was 82 kg in 2010 at my peak age 25. I was cycling, going gym and jogging up to 18 miles. I felt so strong and fit. I am now 36 and weigh 100.7 kg. I feel extremely unhealthy but also I am too lazy to work hard atm to lose this weight.
I went up to 231lbs 105kg during lockdown. And even working a 6 hour shift as a porter killed me. Now two years later I'm 178lbs 81kg. And I have alot more energy. And ride my folder 12.6 miles a day to And from work. As the weight came down my average speed went up. And climbing hills became easier. Weight definately matters.
I was your weight at your age, and got down to 80-83kg in four months with a total change of diet. It's all food and drink. Good luck. We swapped, you were 82 when I was 97-99.
Currently I‘m getting into to heavy cycling and as of now I’m still pushing up 104kg of weight up every hill on my 8,5kg Canyon Endurace. Not gonna lie, it’s tough and a friend of mine who’s just 10kg lighter is absolutely smoking me on every climb. My goal is to reach 75kg at a height of 186cm. I will ride the same climb in my local area every week now to see if it gets easier with loosing weight. Keen to find out! :) Great Video as always!
i dont want to sound rude, but maybe you should have a more easy goal... You plan to lose 25% of yourself ! 25%!!! I don't know how old are you but past a certain age (30/35) lose 10% or 15% is already a good goal.
@@simonpeneau7802 It's tough, i'll admit. I'm 27. I'll be more than happy when the scale shows only 2 digits again haha. I've been at 90kg two years ago and i still had more than enough body fat, then covid and lockdown and stuff hit hard…so I just want to challenge myself how i'm feeling and how i'm looking with less weight :)
Best thing you can do - You will see huge difference - I lost 20kg in 2021 (94->74) and I started to actually enjoy and look forward to any decent climb on a ride, which around Geneva, CH where I live, is basically all my rides 😅 now need to lose some “early winter” kgs that somehow came back to me recently, so have chance at 2023 Etape 😅
Quick check back. It's now December 7th and I'm at 86kg happier than ever. I'm gonna leave the last 11kg up to my goal for next year. :)
There are enough videos on TH-cam that reach the shocking conclusion that a lighter system will go uphill faster. I'd be more interested to see you guys dive into the other variables mentioned at the end (5w increase, adding weight in the form of aero wheels or frame).
And or those of us who don't only do hillclimb races, how would extra weight or better aero affect the total time (uphill and down)? What if you have to ride 10 flat/rolling miles each way to get to and from the climb?
I believe they have done a video like this, including the use of complex computer modelling. The outcome was that weight had an insignificant effect on flat roads. Aero benefits far outweighed weight benefits. Therefore, if you have to choose, always choose aero.
Nice Job Ollie and Alex! Yes, please repeat and increase ride by 5 watts!!
Love it lads looking forward to the next one. Curious to know how you can be so consistent on your power thou ?
👍👍 great work guys 💪🚴♂️🚴♂️🚴♂️
Practice mostly but also the road, a constant gradient helps a lot. Most UK roads are badly built with constant changes in gradient.
@@Ed.R Those are better for improving fitness. They change the heart rate and that's good.
Great video report again, thanks. Yes sounds like the 5w would be a great follow-up. We can talk afford high tech super light gear, yet we can all train to gain 5w…later afford the lighter bikes when €€ horizon clears…and then🎉
I love that kind of experiments. Thank you GCN Tech.
This is why a good pair of wheels and tyres helps more than a lot of other upgrades
Very good video. But to me it proves that losing weight is extremely important. Messing around with one kilo when you are at race weight may be borderline as to whether to go for weight reduction or try and add muscle to gain watts but those riders who are more enthusiasts, not racers, there is normally a lot more than 1kg to lose. After lockdown more like 10kg. And as the power output will be closer to 200W (if I train really hard) then my time on the climb is longer so I'll save more than 1 min per kilo. And if the climbs are steeper you will save more than 1 minute per kilo. I might save 2 minutes per. kilo per HC climb. Now if I do a big event, say the Marmotte, which is 4 climbs in a day I could save 8 minutes per kilo for all the climbs. But I am trying to lose 10kgs - now it looks extremely beneficial for me to lose the weight as I can save 80 minutes over the day on the climbing alone. The time saved climbing means energy saved which means I can look and try and get the even better return by pushing 5W harder.
I'm 182cm, weigh about 86kg and I bought an aluminium bike which ways about 10kg. So with everything combined I wilk have a total system weight of about 98-100kg depending on the kit and the amount of water I take with me. I couldn't be bothered with buying a carbon bike, since it would have been a serious dent into my budget. After seeing this video, I feel much more confident about my purchase of an aluminium bike and not a carbon one. I'll just get some cardio and power work in, so I can easily pedal at 5 watts more on an average climb 😁
Conclusion on 4 minutes is not entirely right because that also depends on how hard you ride w/kg if you do 5w/kg and add 1 kilo you need 5 watts more to keep the same speed, however if you do more than 5w/kg you also need more watts to maintain the speed as well as when you do less.
That’s a pretty big difference, especially if you’re in a hilly race. The difference between a top level disc-brake bike and mid level can be 2kg : 7.2kg vs ~9kg. A top level rim brake bike saves another ~500g. Explains why Pogacar chooses rim for big mountain stages
That's not a big difference for amateur racers at all.
If you’re on the lighter bike in a road race, the 5W you are saving on hills (~10W with a 2kg difference) can mean the difference between going into the red or staying within your aerobic limit, or can make a significant difference in terms of fatigue when it comes to the final part of the race. Races, on average, are won by seconds, and the vast majority of the time within a minute. So all else being equal, you are better off lugging less weight around
@@markbentley4343 Professionals have a smaller skill gap between them. Amateurs don't. That's why these differences don't matter. Stop judging AMATEUR racers by looking at professionals. Very successful amateurs who get to race for the podium get sponsored anyways, so it doesn't matter for them to get the budget heavier bike or expensive 1 kg lighter bike. In practice, for amateurs, weight just doesn't matter when it comes to placement in races. You're not going to top-10 your target gran fondo by buying a 6.8 kg bike if you're a mid pack amateur anyways.
If there is a descent after the climb, you will do the descent slightly faster with one more kg. So it sort of even itself out. The saving will be less.
Yep, i stop at the end of the hill and i take some rocks, that way i can descend even faster ! That's a trick i tell you for free.
I think this isn't a particularly small difference, depending on your situation.
With a lower power output, the time difference will be even greater (my zone 2 is around 160 W at the moment).
When it comes to bike weight, you hit diminishing returns very quickly. In terms of body weight, it's extremely personal. In my case, I was roughly 40 kg overweight in the first place 3 months ago and have lost 14 kg (more than most entire bikes) through some minor dietary changes while increasing my FTP. On a climb like this, that's gonna be in the ballpark 15 minute time difference at my power output, maybe more. If you have weight to lose on your body anyway, for health reasons, that's a good place to focus.
Forget racing, that's the difference between getting to a destination you want to check out in 2 hour ride and not making it there at all.
I've noticed other benefits too, from reduced pressure on the saddle to being able to get in a more aggressive riding position without my thighs hitting my stomach. Probably more aero at this point too.
I’m a 90 kg runner I definitely feel the difference to lighter runners (probably 20-30% less weight than me) on easy inclines i can keep up but in steep climbs 20+% I definitely feel a difference they are much faster uphill I catch up on straight sections (+-2%)
Interesting topic. I'm interested to see what the difference in feel is between the weights.
Because most riders are far from pro, I think the feel of a bike is more important than how much power the rider can push, same for aero.
I'm 89kg and have two road bikes now, my old 15kg steel frame one and 10kg alu frame one. On daily/weekly ride I barely noticed a difference in effort when climbing. Then again my bikes have different drivetrain with different ratio (3x9 sora-alivio mix 28-38-48 12-36 and 2x11 105 34-52 11-28) and the fact that I'm a slow climber that have nowhere near athletes' power output.
@@Chronostra That's where the old saying "it never gets easier you just go faster" comes into play, the effort remains the same but I guarantee you are faster on climbs with your Alu bike.
@@Bikey_McBeardface actually no, maybe a few seconds to couple of tens here and there but not by much I still consider it as a standard deviation due to traffic, weather, etc (the course is a 12km ish climb 5-600m elevation I believe on where I start, it's Kaliurang st to mount merapi, you can google it). Even on the flats my speed more or less the same (40kph tops or 30-33 average for 1 hour in a good day and condition).
I think it's because the weight is focused more on the frame (it's heavy, late 90s I forgot steel long frame), because both bikes have the same wheelset, but the old steel have heavier drivetrain plus additional spacer for the sprocket (3-500g more ish).
The noticeable difference I feel is the stiffness of the frame. The alu one is way stiffer and shorter so it's easier to control on the descent.
But for long distance trip like to my hometown 150km ish from where I am now, I prefer my old steel frame because it feels more comfortable and the flex kinda absorb the lumpies and bumpies of the road (Indonesians' road are terrible).
I think the rider weight and unsprung/rotating weight play a huge role, because 5kg more for me is just what, 4-5% of my body weight and for lighter like 60kg riders 5kg more is closer to 10% of body weight.
My overall system weight is easily over 100kg even on my alu bike, as such:
Me 89kg
Bike 10/15kg
2 bottles of 1l each 2kg+/-
Tools (yes I alwas bring multitool, 2 spare tyres, a minipump, a few spare master links and it's tool) 2kg+/-
That's on weekly ride
On daily ride to work/university its +5kg ish for laptop, nintendo switch, portable batteries and books
Or in my back home trip its more like 25kg plus for clothing plus gadgets plus gifts and presents 😅
Sorry for long reply, incorrect grammar, typo here and there, English is not my main language
Totally DIG both of you gents! More and science and OH I loved the smashing rims video... SO fKN HILARIOUS!!! LMAO!!!
If you struggle to keep up with your mates then lightness allows you stay with them. You picked a wattage that's readily accessible and sustainable by two presenters - if you're hanging on at your max limit then your blood glycogen drops like a rock (both your presenters have excellent endurance) so being able to stay under that limit via a better power/weight is a win. Your climb might only be 50mins but for those of us putting out 150watt avg it's an awful lot longer - less weight gives you better endurance. There were no accelerations in your test, being able to hang on to a break and keep the benefits of aero versus being spat out of the back would be higher. Plus .... Don't ride up grades, buy upgrades lol.
My BMI is almost 25 and so I don't mind my bike being on the heavy side. Titanium, disc break, moderately thick wheels.
I do plan to switch to better tyres though, which should save me about 10 Watts in rolling resistance.
Quick and useful equation :
1000/P = x s/kg/100mD+
Put in your power, let's say P=250W, you lose 4s/kg/100mD+. This climb is about 1000mD+, so 44s lost for +1.1kg. Ollie did +55s.
With P=300W, it predicts more 3.3s/kg/100mD+. So 33s for this climb. Alex lost 35s.
It just comes from the added energy mgh needed to raise the added mass m. The more power you put out, the less time you need to create this mgh additional energy. (to be precise 981/P and not 1000/P but it's already an approximation so who cares)
Well done! More videos, more tests please!
a very interesting video. the road surface looked perfect and as you said, virtually no cars. wow. no doubt if i were racing i would need all that tech. i do have a speedometer, and that is it. did not even have that in my race days. rim brakes rule and save weight.
It is logic that 5 watt on 250 gains more advantage than 1 kilo on 82 because 5/250 is greater than 1/82. When your weight is 50 than 1 kilo adds the same as 5 watt on 250. And lets be honest most of us can loose more than 1 kilo. I think you need to find the sweet spot between weight and power
regardless, the weight of the bike will always be less than 15% that of the rider, maybe 20% for a really heavy bike or a really lightweight person. so shaving weight off the bike instead of yourself is near-irrelevant outside of competition.
...and money kg/W/$$$
Your logic is flawed because you're implying that the correlation between weight/power and speed is linear.
In a Sportive to alps, for exemple l'etape du tour 2022 with col de la croix de fer, col du galibier et l'alpe d'huez, it's easier to lose 1kg than add 5 watts more on each climb. So on those big climbs it will be more then 1min by climb, which is a lot.
In my heyday I weighed 64 kg, now in my 70's I weigh 100kg. Not sure if it is weight or age but I now use an Orbea e-bike otherwise I find most climbs beyond me
Fair play to ya Des, can't imagine my grandfather on a bike who is after turning 70 today. it's probably a bit of both the weight and age, considering you're carrying 36 kg more than what you were in your heyday.
Aerodynamic improvements start to make sense only if you keep a good pace, most of the people who are obssesed with weight are retired men who don't ride that fast so keeping the weight of the bike low still remains their best option.
Yes, I was surprised :-) Good video - thank you!
If I get you right, 1 kg lighter + 5 W more is the way to go.
The only critic I’d have is that you tested over a single 14 km climb. In my case, I consider the lighter bike because of 150 km rides with 4 climbs ranging from 15 to 25 km. Then, the difference will be a lot greater. Non only in time, butt also in fatigue, I guess.
But first things first: more improtant is to get and keep one’s own bodyweight to a healthy "fit" value.
Another great video. Thanks for making these happen. Keep it up!
In their analysis of 5 watts vs 1 kg. For these two, they add just a gnat's ass over 1% weight (mass & weight are interchangeable in this case because the gravity field is constant) while the 250 to 255 change is 2%. Both of these numbers are in the noise of periodic body weight variations and how close you are to your max power output. If your sustainable power is 80% of your max, then riding at 82% is in the noise of day to day performance. You don't do your best every day, you try your best.
I'm 70 years old, weigh 93 kg and live in a continental climate. My body weight varies about 2.5 kg between summer and winter and in a 50-60 km ride will lose 2-3 kg depending on time of year and route (I live in Colorado). Which way the wind blows makes the biggest difference in my rides.
So, in my mind, spending a few hundred USD to drop 4-5 kg from your bike is worth it. But spending 2-3 kUSD to drop 1 kg is the placebo effect in action. And as always, 99% of the people who watch this channel could never tell the difference in a blind test.
Thanks for this. I was a little surprised how much difference only 1kg made. Slightly more than I expected.
All this for as simple maths calculation.
There are two categories of rider - ones who can lay down the power and want to save a few seconds. And the ones who are aerobic and power limited where the 1 Kg weight make the ride possible. There is an additional effect for those in the second case where due to the lack of speed on the climb - things get incredibly hot very quickly
I weigh in at 125kg. On the flats i'm OK on the pedals. But when climbing, I know all too well how much weight makes a difference. I lose against anyone uphill 😂
But the downhill advantage is tremendous!
@@rogersimmons8788
-9.8 m/s^2
@@geraldtone5914 I have a CSE in woodwork so I think I could be forgiven for thinking a cat has walked over your keyboard!
@@rogersimmons8788 He wrote the gravitional acceleration. Idk exactly what he meant by that but regardless of Gerald s comment, id like to tell you that all objects fall the same regardless of weight. There s a video on yotube of a feather being droped in a vacuum chamber: it drops like a ROCK! There is no advantage when being heavy for going downhill. 1 ton, 1000 tones, 1 kg, 10 kg, 80 kg etc. does not matter. They all fall at the same rate. It s a fact first proven by galileo 500 y ago. before even isaac newton.
@@RoScFan While this is of course true, a heavier rider has a higher momentum at the same speed (p=m*v). If we assume aerodynamic drag to be the same, the heavier rider will be slowed down less by that, i.e. will descend faster. Tandem riders can confirm! This is of course a simplification, but it's still true.
Best video from GCN ever 👍
Now do one on frame stiffness, e.g., lo-mod vs hi-mod carbon vs aluminium, for sprint, climbs, and flats. Unless you did that already (probably!).
82 kg and I have worn a 20lb weight back pack on a 14kg road bike going for about a 50 km ride. After did another 50km ride on my Carbon 7 kg bike and without the weight was laughing all the way through the ride with barely breaking a sweat. Weight is everything period end of storey either you reduce your body weight or suffer the consequences.
It would be great to see how much difference 5W makes to the climb time. From my experience it would be much easier to increase FTP by 5W if you were happy to put on a KG in the process. It would be interesting to get a gauge of how much weight you could add per watt increase before you start to slow down. (I realise there are many other variables involved).
For me the biggest performance difference in riding a lightweight bike is not the numbers - it is the way it makes you feel. Sure if you maintain identical power on a lighter and heavier bike the time difference may not be very substantial, but the reality is that the feel of a light weight bike surging forward with every pedal stroke encourages you to push harder as it feels rewarding to do so. You find you climb substantially faster, partly because of the lighter weight, but largely because of the bigger effort it encourages you to ride with
As an example, when I ride my 9kg winter bike I find I naturally want to sit in and spin the pedals up the climbs in a low gear. However when I ride my 5.9kg summer bike I find I naturally want to stand up and attack the hills in a bigger gear. It’s not a deliberate choice it’s just a case of what feels right, like that’s the way the bike wants me to ride it
Great vid thank you, however 1kg might be semi pro weight gain, I would say the average weight of an amateur cyclist would be about 80kg ish before a 9kg ish bike. I think you need to do this again with a total system weight of 90kg to provide real world impact of weight on climbing.
Alto de velefique ?:) I was there, i was very surprised when the temperature decrease significantly on the top, i wasn't ready.
2x 1h at 250watts - easy, without heavy breathing - is actually not bad at all.
Ollie is as good as us mortals can get. 😃👍
PS: your argument that 5kg is better than 1kg is wrong guys. A Tadej Pogačar would loose to a Cancellara on a climb then, because both easily go for more than 5watts per kg and Fabian was for sure the guy with more power overall.
Ollies close to 1min difference in a 55min climb is massive. Imagine saving a bit here and there, it just adds up. Of course normies don't need it and can save the money, but it's a lot for pros / good cyclists
As always, I'm impressed by Ollie's power numbers. I'm an above average rider and I couldn't put out 250 watts for an hour...TWICE.
The difference may be small but if you’re cycling close to your limit (which you may well be riding uphill as a non-elite cyclist) then 5 watts is significant. That’s 5 watts for an entire hour. If your FTP is 300+ then maybe 5 watts is barely anything but mine isn’t so I’d rather have the 5 watt advantage thanks.
that reminded me how I was trying to chase my friends on hybrids on a dirt jump bike :DD like 9kg vs 15 plus hollyroller tyres, I wonder how big of a difference it would be with trained guys like you :DD
tbh 1min is alot, i drive mostly 15min climbs in my area, i dont want to loose 15 seconds against my friends on evey climp. Thats why i like my 6.5kg rim bike. My weight is just 65kg.
Finally a comment that describes my situation. I’m only 63kgs so my bike makes for a higher proportion of my system weight. One minute is a lot of time for me too. I don’t want to loose a second to my riding buddies each and every climb. Maybe if we had climbs like this one in the vid I’d have an advantage but our climbs are steep and relatively short so raw power makes a difference. Weight matters to me because I’m not super powerful and my bike weight can really screw my system power to weight.
well, I have two road bikes. One is a carbon fiber frame, weighs 7,6 kg, the other is chromoly steel complete with rack, pannier bag, and mudguards for commuting, weighs 19,2 kg. both use Ultegra groupset. I haven’t tried it on the climb, but on the flat, the carbon bike is around 7 km/h faster in average speed. heck, the carbon bike still even use the standard wheel.
Aero and rolling resistance is probably an important part of that.
Ride and train on heavier bikes and race on the light stuff. If you ride a lot or have tough weather conditions buying parts that are super light usually won’t last long. The high end stuff in theory is swapped out every season. For most riders that’s not an option, spend a bit less and ride a bit more!
Force = Mass x Acceleration.
Acceleration = g x Sin theta for gradient.
Force = Newtons.
Newtons = kg x g.
Vertical climb = m/s
Joules = Energy to lift N per m
Watts = J/s
"I canna change the laws of physics, Cap'n."
Love this. More please.
Basically, it's high school physics. Dragging 1 kg up this hill (1040 m) costs 10.2 kJ of energy. This means Ollie spent 3.0 W of power on dragging that 1 kg of dead weight, and Alex spent 3.8 W (quicker==more power). Ignoring minor (rolling) resistance increases. So yes, 5 W additional power output would more than compensate. This also implies that pro-cyclists (light riders/high power) gain more from a lower system weight than amateurs. Not very shocking.
I'm probably about 94 kilos with my bike currently - 79 kg of bodyweight plus my kit and a Triban which aren't lightweight bikes at all. So I'd maybe save 5 minutes on my weekend climbs if I went crazy and bought a carbon fiber aero rocket. I think I'll do more squats and deadlifts instead.
I worry more about my body weight not so much for biking but, more for my yoga practice. I like buying cool light weight parts, carbon stuff. Heck switching from OEM wheels set to aftermarket set saved 300grams.
If you are trying to win a race? Yes. A race can be won on a fraction of a second difference.
If not, then no, unless your bike does not have the gearing to handle the climb or you don't have the strength to handle the extra weight.
1KG is last nights kebab. Add 15-20kg and see how you get on :-)
Try 10 grammes of exlax first thing in the morning. That might sort the weight issue out (of course, I'm only joking!)
saw another video that an avg person holds 20lbs of shxt
@@kelsoncheng I know people that are just full of it!
I'd like to see that kebab. :p
Yeah that’s my overweight pounds I’m trying to lose … 17kg extra body weight I’m carrying around my gut
In the roundup at the end, I had to readjust as Ollie and Alex are seated left and right position respectively (from a viewer's perspective). On the regular studio videos Alex is on the left and Ollie seated on the right. Maybe I'm OCD. Oh well, do carry on. Interesting weight trial though