How Much Difference Does Weight Make On A Climb?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Many cyclists obsess over weight, and when cycling uphill, a rider’s power-to-weight ratio is key. The higher your power-to-weight, the faster you will climb. But by how much? Does weight really make that much of a difference? While we were in Spain, we decided to do some science and put it to the test on the epic Alto de Velefique climb.
Check out the Alto de Velefique climb on Komoot 👉 gcntech.co/Kom...
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Were you surprised by the results? Have they changed how you view weight?
1kg is too small an increase to see any significant difference? how about adding 5kg/10kg.. would make for more interesting viewing for the fatties like me out there that come in at 113kg.. haha
I’m not surprised actually as when going on rides in the hills with my 60kg to 85kg mates it doesn’t take long for me to be left behind on the climbs at 100kg.
Be interesting to see you guys do this adding stuff least 5kg, or punish yourself with 10kg.
moral of the story: ride more, spend less money on gear
No, but can you do some more 'science' and compare normal bike with your highly praised aero bike over 14km distance, not 40k or 50k? then compare the difference? You keep bragging abut 4 seconds saved over 40k TT at 50kph, who on earth rides at these speeds, apart form TTs?
No, it Was that what was expected increase the weight by 1.25% and you have 1.25% more rolling resitance and 1.25% more needed energy to bring that weight up the Hill, the aerodynamic drag increases not so you would be much less slower than 1.25%. If the climb is steeper you will get closer to the 1.25% and if its flat you will be close to 0% .
That you will be faster on a climb when your baseline is 3w/kg and you increase Power by 5w and weight by 1kg you increase the Overall Power to weight ratio...
Ollie this week: 1kg? No big deal.
Ollie next week: This new frameset is ONE HUNDRED GRAMS lighter than last year's!
😀
I mean, framesets come in at a couple hundred grams as is so yeah that's a very big deal
Cyclist Ollie vs marketing spokesman Ollie
@@PaganiZondaF650hp doing a video for a certain topic Ollie vs. Ollie stating facts. If the frame is factually 100 grams lighter then it is 100 grams lighter.
If people think lighter components are just marketing then they should just buy steel bikes. Tougher when crashed, cheaper too.
@@sepg5084 I don't think anyone thinks its JUST marketing, basic physics tells you that its not. But when a bike company tries to persuade you to spend an extra £1000+ on the new model over the now heavily discounted older model because they shaved 120g off the frame, when the average persons weight can fluctuate by kilograms a day, that is definitely mostly marketing.
On the one hand, this video shows me that investing in lighter components is a waste of money, on the other hand it shows me that I would have already reached my year goal if I wasn‘t so fat. At the point where I am, loosing a kilo is much easier than adding 5W to my FTP.
Better yet, add 10 watts AND lose 5 kilos.
@@danielakerman8241 Work in progress. :)
This means for a lighter rider, the value of saving 1kg is greater than that for a heavier rider?
Namely, 1kg for a 60kg rider is "more" than 1kg for a 80kg rider. (1.67% vs 1.25%)
So light rider invests light components would get a better return in term of climbing speed.
(p.s. I'm a 60kg rider :))
Get a life people !!!! and ride !!!! your not in the Tour de france !!!! are you ive never read so much woffle in my life
As another 60 kg rider, yup that’s exactly it. I hate the notion that it’s easier to lose weight off your body than off your bike…not for me! I don’t have a spare kilo to shed on my body (no, literally, I have to work to maintain my weight), so my only place to lose weight is my bike. When my all-road bike is nearly 12 kg I don’t think it’s being a “weight weenie” to try to get it to 10 kg; that’s 3 percent of the system mass for me!
@@AndyLeeJordan Get a life !!!! are you competing in the Tour de France , if so Im sure your team manager will get you a lighter bike although im sure you have the best there is at the moment ,,, ,, get a life my friend ,, I can assure you adding 5 kilos to your bike would make do difference
@@markthoughtswithukrainemas2072 Dude you are the one that needs to get a life. Some cyclists enjoy discussing stats, tech etc. and they want to improve as cyclists. No I'm not competing in the TDF but I am competing against myself, and it matters TO ME. If it doesn't matter to you thats fine, but don't tell other people what you think should be important to them thats just arrogant. You sound like a whiny teenager that desperately needs to let the world know he doesn't care. People that don't care about something don't feel the need to keep telling everyone.
@@AndyLeeJordan most people are 1/2 your weight again…. so they can all lose weight but won’t.
1kg and 5W? Sweet. My weight plus the bike is easily over 120kg, unfortunately the bike already is a carbon 😀
Stay peddling, not everyone built the same, plenty of people at 100kg and over with low body fat
@@tomasmcenery5905 Thanks, my ideal weight is around 95 kg (being 193 cm tall) so that makes me still over 105 kg on bike and fully equipped. So while I agree with you, I guess what I wanted to say is that for me and similary built people 1 kg of weight is just a funny number. Actually 10 kg of a difference would be much more interesting and motivational, I think.
Same here, 102kg body, 8kg bike. Water 1kg, 4kg bag including tools pump etc, then add a few kg’s for hat shoes gloves, GoPro’s cycle computer lights and energy gels dont really think 1kg will make difference
i was 90kg oct 20. 2021, 187 watts ft
after 4mnth training i am now
78kg and 271watts ftp.
just keep on riding 🚴♂️
@@retroonhisbikes 4 kg bag? Are you carrying an entire toolbox? :D
I reduced my weight from 82kg to 78kg and have gone from dreading every hill on my ride to the point now that I can't wait for the next hill.
So 8.8lbs of weight made alot of difference to you.
@@fender1000100 So much so that I ride more and reduced my weight further.
@@nicktheodorou3474 same here, as a regular person your best option to make climbing easier is to just lose weight by riding lots.
@@elliotcowell3139 Agreed! I was at 78kg when I posted here last and as a result wanted to ride and climb more. Now I am at 72kg and my climbing has improved further and I want to spend more time on the bike. The cost of going from a 10kg bike to a 9kg was about $1,000. The cost is exponential to reduce it further. When further weight loss affects muscle mass and overall performance it's time to spend money on the bike 😊.
@@fender1000100 -
"a
lot"
is
two
separate
words
1KG is last nights kebab. Add 15-20kg and see how you get on :-)
Try 10 grammes of exlax first thing in the morning. That might sort the weight issue out (of course, I'm only joking!)
saw another video that an avg person holds 20lbs of shxt
@@kelsoncheng I know people that are just full of it!
I'd like to see that kebab. :p
Yeah that’s my overweight pounds I’m trying to lose … 17kg extra body weight I’m carrying around my gut
I would live to see what adding 5w would do to time, but weather conditions would have to be very similar, maybe repeat this experiment and do third run on same day?
I find if you Fart rather than add 5 watts it makes a difference !!!! get a life pall and RIDE
Imagine what a pro will pay for a 35 second advantage on a long climb like this. These differences are enormous or subtle depending on who you might ask.
Well you can clearly see what they're willing to pay. They're willing to hire someone to temporarily carry their bottles for them and lose the 1kg that way
Significant for a pro, immaterial for the average rider.
I have to fly 2hrs to find my nearest 1hr climb. For 99% of us, it makes absolutely no difference
@@saracen888 I have a 1250 m elevation and 15 km long climb 1 km from my home 😅
Just leave you water bottle at the bottom of the climb and save $5k
I’m more shocked by 12 minutes diff between the rides pushing 250 vs 300 watts than a diff because of extra 1 kg.
The time isn't right for Alex. check his Strava - it was almost 50 minutes...
20% power difference is 11.4mins, not far off….
Joke corner...., but on a serious note..., what weight would you say you are before your bowl movement that you are after your bowl movement 🤔..., that Ib or two can in many case's see exceptional gains in one's performance so consider this aspect in how ever outlandish this may sound...., 👊🏾👍🏾
7:42 Yes I think cyclists are far too weight obsessed per our machines. Some whipersnapper asked me about the weight of the AA batteries I have on all the lights on my bikes; my reply was have you ever ridden with a generator? Talk about drag and poor wattage (
It matters, if you are earning your daily income with bike racing.
For all others: relax!
1kg is about 1 second per minute you lose to the competition.
I dream about being 88kg without my bike
How is it going?
@@twintyara6330 down from 112kg to 109 so far
It shows this:
The more power you can put on the pedal, the less the time gains are from being 1 kg lighter. All the discussions about 55s being a huge deal in the pro peloton are only half the deal, I think. Because, let´s face it, these guys put very different numbers down. Would love to see the 5w video as well! If it shows the math being true, the simple solution is this:
Instead of losing a kilogram for a maybe 4 digit amount of money on your bike, take that money, go to a nice training camp, eat some good food, have a nice time and increase your power output. Because this is what really will make you faster: work. Also most of us can easily lose 1kg, totally free of charge.
Of course Pros obsess about every second. But these guys are already on the edge on the training part. You and I are not.
It is kind of clear. Just round the numbers.
100 kg System weight with 300 watts. That’s 3 watt per kg.
So no surprise that 5 watt more is more effective than 1 kg less.
the weight matters most for pro's because they can go to the absolute limit and likely be stuck at that same number for a long time, so in order to get faster the have to cut weight. just adding 5watts onto your ftp can be really hard once you're very fit. you can say the same thing about race cars, it's all about fine tuning.
I love the way you think Tim. This is what I preach to my pals DAILY.
@@roaming_ren3972 I sell bikes and have this discussion as well on a daily basis. People refusing perfectly fine middle class bikes because they are "too heavy". I mean, don´t get me wrong, I love nice bikes, big wheels and all that stuff. But the point is: The only reason to buy a nice expensive bike is that you want to have one. And this reason is perfectly fine, if you can afford it. It feels nice. Like driving a Porsche to work in a big city. Not gonna make you faster, maybe feels a bit nicer. All the other reasons do not matter for 99% of us. Most Watts you can save on your bikes is a nice cleaning on a regular basis anyway ;)
@@darinsteele7091 yeah, my point exactly. But this video (and all the other videos on TH-cam) don´t adress the pro´s. They adress the average Joe´s (like me, for example). And I can easily see myself increasing my ftp adding Watts :-D
So if I weigh 125kg, but have huge 52cm calves, I should be fine? :D
Impressive power numbers, lads. It would've been VERY impressive if you added the 5 watts and did the climb 2 more times, though.
Mate it's a program. They probably did it the following day after resting in a 5star hotel! 😂
Simple Physics.... 95 kilo Rider is struggling up hills.
No, not necessary, it's a ratio of weight and power. Some big guys can run very fast, some rugby players can run under 10s for 100 meters and they weight 120 kg.
I'd rather ad 1kg of muscle to my legs
Great video guys, I love the way you got to the top then casually mention your going down to add a further kilo and do it again. If I went down after that climb to add a kilo, that kilo would be burger and chips and I'd be away home for a good sleep 🤣
It's not just time. Lighter bikes feel better to ride for me.
Yeah, how else would you rationalize that money you've spent on lighter bikes.
You can feel the difference between an old 15 kg bike, but i have two bike, a 8.5kg aluminium and a 7.5kg carbon, it's difficult to see any difference.
tbh 1min is alot, i drive mostly 15min climbs in my area, i dont want to loose 15 seconds against my friends on evey climp. Thats why i like my 6.5kg rim bike. My weight is just 65kg.
Finally a comment that describes my situation. I’m only 63kgs so my bike makes for a higher proportion of my system weight. One minute is a lot of time for me too. I don’t want to loose a second to my riding buddies each and every climb. Maybe if we had climbs like this one in the vid I’d have an advantage but our climbs are steep and relatively short so raw power makes a difference. Weight matters to me because I’m not super powerful and my bike weight can really screw my system power to weight.
Curious to know whether the 1kg weight penalty was less with Alex not because he was putting out 300w rather than 250w but rather, because 1kg is proportionately less for Alex (whose total weight 88.4kg) vs. Ollie (82kg). Nice video that puts things in perspective.
Isn't the difference in proportion only around 1%.
super interested in the 5W increase test.
And maybe to note: it might be worth mentioning that reducing (useless) body weight (instead of spending money on lighter tech) is also an option for many :)
fully agree: cheaper, more healthy and more fun to bike with less weight on the woman / man.
I remember during my MTB times a friend was so proud of his expensive new carbon frame MTB.
Until I said "your weight (without bike) is much more than mine with bike. Save the money, eat more healthy and/or and make a diet"
@@wolfgangl5590 true, although if that awesome bike stimulated him to ride more, it could also have an effect on body weight ;)
i remember trying to race when young after putting on a few extra kg. it killed me uphills. now i am old and fat, but still make it up the hills at a crawl lol
I'm there with you Brother. Just keep riding. Speed no longer belongs to us, but endurance does.
I weigh in at 125kg. On the flats i'm OK on the pedals. But when climbing, I know all too well how much weight makes a difference. I lose against anyone uphill 😂
But the downhill advantage is tremendous!
@@rogersimmons8788
-9.8 m/s^2
@@geraldtone5914 I have a CSE in woodwork so I think I could be forgiven for thinking a cat has walked over your keyboard!
@@rogersimmons8788 He wrote the gravitional acceleration. Idk exactly what he meant by that but regardless of Gerald s comment, id like to tell you that all objects fall the same regardless of weight. There s a video on yotube of a feather being droped in a vacuum chamber: it drops like a ROCK! There is no advantage when being heavy for going downhill. 1 ton, 1000 tones, 1 kg, 10 kg, 80 kg etc. does not matter. They all fall at the same rate. It s a fact first proven by galileo 500 y ago. before even isaac newton.
@@RoScFan While this is of course true, a heavier rider has a higher momentum at the same speed (p=m*v). If we assume aerodynamic drag to be the same, the heavier rider will be slowed down less by that, i.e. will descend faster. Tandem riders can confirm! This is of course a simplification, but it's still true.
The take-away:
Ride an entry-level bike (upgrading not for performance but for comfort/ aesthetic) until the improvement of a preferred performance metric (e.g. FTP) begins to wane; despite a considerable amount of training- upon discovering this asymptote one would be, finally, most benefitted making a timely investment in performance-oriented upgrades that will aid in one's never-ending endeavor to bridge the gap betwixt their current upper-physiological limit and that of their maximum theoretical.
Good to know... I can lose 1kg on the toilet so will just have to stop at the bottom of the climb 😂
Firstly, I would have thought fatigue would be a factor on the second attempt, especially on such a long climb. As for time differences, this is surely yet more evidence that for touring and other non-competitive situations, the weight advantage of aluminium over steel is irrelevant (for those on low budgets, carbon is in another galaxy).
some context is needed i believe. Ollie added 1.6% weight when he added the kilo. Alex added 1.3% when he added the kilo. They were both putting out the same power in proportion to their Functional Threshold. Ollie was 1.2% slower, Alex was 1.1% slower. The conclusion is two fold: The obvious one is that a kilo of dead weight does have an effect but is negligible outside of the pro tour ranks, The second is that the more of a weight weenie you are the more of a weight weenie you have to be because a small weight has a larger effect. So if you are light you actually have more reason to get a light bike than a bigger rider!
In my heyday I weighed 64 kg, now in my 70's I weigh 100kg. Not sure if it is weight or age but I now use an Orbea e-bike otherwise I find most climbs beyond me
Fair play to ya Des, can't imagine my grandfather on a bike who is after turning 70 today. it's probably a bit of both the weight and age, considering you're carrying 36 kg more than what you were in your heyday.
Colnago super, light wheels, still climbs great.
You think a minute is 'insignifcant' on this climb? That's huge! Enough to bury your mates if you're having a 'friendly!' race. For me, this just reinforces how important weight is when climbing.
it’s insignificant compared to 5 watts. if you put on a kilo you could also gain power and that’s the point i’m making.
This is why a good pair of wheels and tyres helps more than a lot of other upgrades
The formula for weight difference, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, is quite simple (correct me, anyone, if I err). For example, in a total system weighing 200 lbs. where you add 2 more pounds you should be slowed by 2/200th (2 divided by 200) or 1% on average.
I calculated a slow down of 47 seconds in the example in this video, given the initial time estimate. I didn't do the simple math for the real initial, non-extra weight times.
So, unless you're racing, a situation where every thing matters, it's not much to concern oneself with...except for the extremes (i.e., adding 50 lbs., or kilograms (same formula)).
I’m not a mathematician nor physicist, but I think it’s even less than that. Gravitational resistance is only a part of the picture, along with aerodynamics, rolling resistance, hysteretic losses among others. If we follow your argument, but assume weight only accounts for half of the resistance on a climb, a 1 % reduction in weight would only yield a 0.5 % improvement. Of course, your main point still stands, it doesn’t matter unless you’re racing at a high level.
@@Martin-yv8ib Remember, though, this was a comparison and, like I stated, "all other things being equal". So, in a "pure" comparison the formula is valid though there'd be a slight increase in friction (rolling resistance), negligible differences in air resistance (not much of a factor at most hill climbing speeds), and the minor non-linearities should be, well, quite minor.
But this is a nitpick. As you agreed, the weight changes make for far less differences than most people assume.
There are enough videos on TH-cam that reach the shocking conclusion that a lighter system will go uphill faster. I'd be more interested to see you guys dive into the other variables mentioned at the end (5w increase, adding weight in the form of aero wheels or frame).
And or those of us who don't only do hillclimb races, how would extra weight or better aero affect the total time (uphill and down)? What if you have to ride 10 flat/rolling miles each way to get to and from the climb?
I believe they have done a video like this, including the use of complex computer modelling. The outcome was that weight had an insignificant effect on flat roads. Aero benefits far outweighed weight benefits. Therefore, if you have to choose, always choose aero.
I asked chatgpt whether I should get a lighter bike or lose weight. Unsurprisingly it said the best option was to lose weight. I did that by 13kg, and got a cheaper older rim brake bike at 7kg rather than the 13kg of my previous bike. That is a noticeable difference! For me it's a game of maximise on all fronts as best you can. Bike weight as a percentage of total system weight seems to make a difference (maybe only mentally) for sure. Gearing for efficient cadence is important too...
Nice one lads but I can't see it scaling up. Wonder what the results are with 10 or 20kg
Well this video is about the marginal weight from components that weight weenies are always on about...
I'd much prefer to see this, for a weight loss motivator!
If 1 kg costs you say 5 W in potential power on a climb. Then 10 kg will cost you 50 W.
@Andrew Kay - concerning potential energy it doesn't matter whether you add weight to your body or to your bike. Also adding say 0.5 kg on the rotational parts vs on the body doesn't result in significant difference as our accelerations - unfortunately - are quite limited 😥
But adding say 20 kg to your body would normally increase your frontal area. And that could certainly cost you some watts. Already at some 15 km/h air drag cost you the same power as rolling resistance and mechanical losses.
Switching from my light carbon bike to my alloy winter bike which is about 1.5kg heavier the only real difference I noticed was short, sharp out the saddle climbs where the edge and nimbleness of the light bike isn’t there. Riding up long climbs in the saddle the difference isn’t really noticeable unless you’re absolutely gunning for it.
But... I wonder what the difference in time might be? I lost a lot of weight a couple of years ago and one thing I noticed, it doesn't get easier, you just get quicker. So, it feels like nothing changes until you look at average speeds or segment times.
It’s just happened to me - I’ve lost 11ish kgs and was looking for easier climbing. Instead, I got quicker climbing. I’d rather have easier, but the lizard brain just churns you up the hill the same.
@@yakoridesagain It never gets easier... you just get faster. You should know that quote.;-)
@@AndyCrowther if it’s a bit slower, does it really matter? For me, times only matter as a measure of my overall fitness, so I’d only compare efforts under same circumstances with same equipment. But if I want exercise or to enjoy an awesome ride, the difference in time between two bikes won’t really matter.
@@danielakerman8241 I guess you only generally ride alone then? I often ride in groups and I want to be able to (comfortably) keep up with them.
GCN should consider 1kg of dead weight vs 1kg of metabolically active tissue in the legs that goes towards powering the bike. How many watts can you gain with increased muscle mass in the legs?Could switch the paradigm away from “lightness” as the end goal
Yeah I’d say most people’s “problem” weight isn’t commonly going to be focussed on the legs, more than likely it’s dead weight carried around the midsection
I want to see the same climb with aero bike vs climbing bike
As always, I'm impressed by Ollie's power numbers. I'm an above average rider and I couldn't put out 250 watts for an hour...TWICE.
As a 170kg man i can tell you yes. Yes it matters a lot
I'm not sure 1kg is gonna help though!
Really enjoyed this, I’d love to see it across a wider range of weight differences and power numbers
This is actually a really good episode. I want to see you guys do 5 more watts with the extra kilo. And one with aero bike vs climbing bike at same wattage.
Dead weight: disc brakes. 55 sec or 35 on a climb is a lot of time when racing
55s is huge in a Grand Tour perspective.
Thats the difference from first to last lol
Ollie: "We're then going to ride up the climb at a comfortable pace"
Alex - Casually going at 295 Watts
Us mere mortals: o.O
If there is a descent after the climb, you will do the descent slightly faster with one more kg. So it sort of even itself out. The saving will be less.
Yep, i stop at the end of the hill and i take some rocks, that way i can descend even faster ! That's a trick i tell you for free.
This is THE BEST cycling channel….. In the worrrrrld 🌍 Keep it up team!
Can you guys compare 10kg of weight difference? This video is good in terms of making choices between two road bikes, but, as a novice rider, I wanna know if spending few thousand dollars on my first road bike is gonna be worth it at all.
It is logic that 5 watt on 250 gains more advantage than 1 kilo on 82 because 5/250 is greater than 1/82. When your weight is 50 than 1 kilo adds the same as 5 watt on 250. And lets be honest most of us can loose more than 1 kilo. I think you need to find the sweet spot between weight and power
regardless, the weight of the bike will always be less than 15% that of the rider, maybe 20% for a really heavy bike or a really lightweight person. so shaving weight off the bike instead of yourself is near-irrelevant outside of competition.
...and money kg/W/$$$
Your logic is flawed because you're implying that the correlation between weight/power and speed is linear.
Quick math: The average watts are time-based. You probably put more power on the steeper parts and less on the flatter part.
Try again with the same power during the whole climb and total time will be longer.
We do this naturally to push harder when the grade is rising, but it would be a nice experiment to do!
That's not how averages work. If you ride 10 miles at exactly 100w your average power is 100w, if you ride the first 5 miles at 200w and the second 5 miles at 50w you still average 100w, and providing nothing about you, the bike or the conditions change between rides your time would be the same. Besides they where using power meters and keeping to the same power at all parts of the climb so they already did what you are asking.
@@chris1275cc No it’s a regular arithmetic average, so it depends on the time spend at each wattage. Doesn’t care about the distance. 10min at 50W and 10min at 200W will average 125W, while we cannot predict what will be 5mi at 50W and 5mi at 200W.
@@cypercharged No, watch the video again they already did the experiment the way you are asking them to. They took a steady pace remained seated and held their wattages across the whole climb, sure they probably didn't quite keep it bang on the whole time which is why the average was taken over the SET distance not time spent at certain wattages. Do you think Dr Oliver Bridgewood Ph.D. would use a time based average when the distance is the only non variable?
No real shock there, Just proven that weight clearly does make a difference ! Is it significant? Depends who you are. To Filippo Ganna, who just got himself disqualified from the Tour of Provence, for swapping his disc brake Pinarello to a rim break version at the foot of the climb - absolutely! Also, its could be the weight difference between , say a £1k road bike and a £3/4k road bike. There is a tangible difference in ‘feel’ on a lighter bike. On the flip side, a lot of riders wont care about this difference. However, what i would guess is that the majority who watch GCN fall into the equipment ‘enthusiast’ type, who drool over expensive bikes, where this is the kind of tangible difference they will notice and absolutely care about.
To be honest, to every cyclist except those who are competitive cyclists, the weight and time issue is irrelevant. Unless you’re racing, the time just doesn’t matter. Buy a bike that’s geared to allow you to finish the rides you want to take. End of story. The gear ratio that allows you to complete the climb, get the exercise and have a good time is way more important than a kilo or finishing 50 seconds quicker.
If time doesn't matter there is no point in using a roadbike.
@@log_it8282 sports car can cruise, people can enjoy different speed. It’s not necessarily to flat out every time when behind the wheel
@@log_it8282 I disagree. A road bike is more comfortable and easier to ride for something like this than, say, a mountain bike. It’s the right tool. But one doesn’t need the lightest, fastest, most expensive version of that tool unless they’re racing. A lot of recreational cyclists out there dropping close to $10k on carbon race bikes with groupsets they can’t even push up the climb, when what they should really be doing is saving their money and using a group set that allows them to ride where they want.
@@danielakerman8241 Im the opposite, my MTB is far more comfortable than my road bike. Everything depends on actual bike fit regardless of bike type
@@rcs2003 in that case, I 100% agree with you. Ride what gets you there in the most enjoyable way, and forget about weight/times.
I’m a 90 kg runner I definitely feel the difference to lighter runners (probably 20-30% less weight than me) on easy inclines i can keep up but in steep climbs 20+% I definitely feel a difference they are much faster uphill I catch up on straight sections (+-2%)
Ollie is 2kg lighter than me even with the bike in his hands 😂
im 120KG so its nice to see im struggling for a reason 🤣
same here hehe
Yeh loved to see the extra 5w. Should be an interesting result. Great job guys
Great video as always lovely neighbors! Would love to see that 5watts extra climb, but also extra watts required to counteract for less tyre pressure, or wider winter tyres. That may well show us its best to keep our tyres inflated than spending 3 grand to reduce a kg!
I remember reading a study where some people far cleverer people than me worked out that ‘on average’, with all things considered equal (rolling resistance, weather, road surface etc), and assuming equal power output, a 1kg difference in total weight would equate to 7secs lost per km. So when I cycle my local climb (I live in the French Alps and the closest ‘good’ climb is a Cat 1 = 13km, avg 7%) with my cycling buddy, who is between 15-20kgs lighter than me, I tend to be up to half an hour slower. That’s the excuse I use, anyhow.
The article further pointed out that using the most basic principles of physics and human physiology, every gram of muscle a cyclist has over his/her 69kg naked weight, cannot produce enough power to shift that muscle up the hill as efficiently as the first 69kgs. It is a diminishing return and optimum climbing weight should be 69kgs or less…
If you are trying to win a race? Yes. A race can be won on a fraction of a second difference.
If not, then no, unless your bike does not have the gearing to handle the climb or you don't have the strength to handle the extra weight.
But i Guess 20sec is more than enough to win a stage at THE tour in a long climb like that .
It would be i interesting if you had done the first ride with the extra weight. As the second run might of been marginally slower due to you having already done one run.
With 85kg body weight, I couldn't care less about 1kg on my bikes frame... unfortunately, upper body strength has limited use in cycling. Fortunately, I also have big legs :]
8:00 Starts talking about aerodynamic drag. At hill climbing speeds.....14 kph in this example... hw much of an influence would that be?
It sure does make a difference on a climb Gravity my lad Gravity 🚴♀️🚴♀️ 🍎
I will say! JUST RIDE! I'm BIGGER than most of my cycling friends and for sure I'm always the last guy to the top, but when it comes to the Down hill they all know what's coming it's that RUNAWAY FREIGHT TRAIN! I'll have my MAVIC 440gr PARIS ROUBAIX RIMS WHEELS 300 PLUS GRAM TIRES! As I would tell them when rolling a Baseball down hill against a Ping pong ball which one will get there first! My rig was a Modifide TRACK BIKE, it was TIGHT! FAST! And QUICK! And way back then! There was no such thing as ALPINE Gearing for us, we left that to the tourist.
I just wish I could "comfortably" hold 300 watts up a freaking climb... I suck... 😐
Quick and useful equation :
1000/P = x s/kg/100mD+
Put in your power, let's say P=250W, you lose 4s/kg/100mD+. This climb is about 1000mD+, so 44s lost for +1.1kg. Ollie did +55s.
With P=300W, it predicts more 3.3s/kg/100mD+. So 33s for this climb. Alex lost 35s.
It just comes from the added energy mgh needed to raise the added mass m. The more power you put out, the less time you need to create this mgh additional energy. (to be precise 981/P and not 1000/P but it's already an approximation so who cares)
Free speed! Yeah, but only if it’s by aero!!!!!!111!!!!!! If it’s because of weight it’s not going to make a difference AT ALL! You can save sooooo much by using aero wheels going at 14,3 km/h up a hill !!!
They Go twice up there in a Row and additionally the second ride was with another kg. If course You Are slower then, just because of exhaustion
My BMI is almost 25 and so I don't mind my bike being on the heavy side. Titanium, disc break, moderately thick wheels.
I do plan to switch to better tyres though, which should save me about 10 Watts in rolling resistance.
Force = Mass x Acceleration.
Acceleration = g x Sin theta for gradient.
Force = Newtons.
Newtons = kg x g.
Vertical climb = m/s
Joules = Energy to lift N per m
Watts = J/s
"I canna change the laws of physics, Cap'n."
TLDR; Unless you're a world class competitive cyclist, it doesn't matter.
So Ollie 3400 sec to 3455 sec gives 1.6% slower with 1.1kg added
and Alex 2695 sec to 2730 sec gives 1.3 % slower with 1.0kg added
(if I did the math correctly) The difference seems on the edge of noticeable
Weight.... How does Strava calculate power data? In my profile they only ask "weight", which I assume body weight. What about exactly what this video is about-the TOTAL weight of rider AND kit. 🤨
Alex did 20% more power than Oli
Alex's avg speed was 23.3% higher than Oli
Alex's System weight is 6.5% higher than Oli
Alex's W/kg were only 12.7% higher than Oli
Something doesn't add up here. Could be a few things
- Power meter variances
- Alex being way more aero?
- Alex surging a lot more on steep sections
Rather than do a 5W video, I'd love to see you using some Conti 4 Seasons tyres or something similar that sucks up 5-10W of power. Great demo of what a system upgrade can do.
+1% weight = +1% time at 250W and needs +1% power or 2.5W to compensate,
+ 5W will compensate for 2% of extra weight, or be 2% faster at standard weight
OMG, GCN, the scientific hedgehogs of the cycling world!
It's like you believe 5 and 25 kg of additional weight would add 5x and 25x the time of adding1kg.
Deary deary me.
I've just managed to build a bike for a hundred pounds (carbon frame out of a skip) and parts from eBay...with a total weight of 7.9 Kg..
I went from decent cycling shape and 215lbs to horrible fitness and 165lbs. Despite the fact I am still trying to rebuild leg muscle and my bike is from 2010, I am flying now.
So the point here is stop being a weight weenie if you aren’t a pro cyclist and work harder, and you’ll perform better.
Basically, adding 1/82th of the weight will require an additional 1/82th of the power to match the same time, so +3W
Now add 20kg and try it!
Cyclists be like "I did ______ mods to my bike and cut 1kg weight!"
My brother in Christ, your own body weight can fluctuate 1.5-2kg/day depending on your hydration levels, what you ate the previous day, etc.
When you weigh 60kg as I do, and you add 1kg, and do some big passes, it makes a huge difference. Obviously because proportionately 1kg is greater % of total mass. When I tour with a 1.5kg under saddle bag for overnighting, and do 150km and 2500m of climbing you are wayyyy slower.
83kg? Wow.... Just me... I weight 225lbs 😂😂😂😂 I need to lose weight
"doing maths"
This stopped being cool long ago. It's not even cute anymore. It's just nauseating now. Please stop 🤮
Also don't don't refer to assessment as "calculus" or logistics as "optics". Double 🤮🤮.
If I get you right, 1 kg lighter + 5 W more is the way to go.
The only critic I’d have is that you tested over a single 14 km climb. In my case, I consider the lighter bike because of 150 km rides with 4 climbs ranging from 15 to 25 km. Then, the difference will be a lot greater. Non only in time, butt also in fatigue, I guess.
But first things first: more improtant is to get and keep one’s own bodyweight to a healthy "fit" value.
Great video that I'm guilty of having 1 bike that's 7kg & another that's 8kg - the 8kg being super comfortable (titanium) over the 7kg carbon bike
What about 5kg? or 10kg? If average Joe cyclist that is slightly overweight (myself, for example) dropped a few pounds from their waistline they would climb much faster.
2x 1h at 250watts - easy, without heavy breathing - is actually not bad at all.
Ollie is as good as us mortals can get. 😃👍
PS: your argument that 5kg is better than 1kg is wrong guys. A Tadej Pogačar would loose to a Cancellara on a climb then, because both easily go for more than 5watts per kg and Fabian was for sure the guy with more power overall.
Ollies close to 1min difference in a 55min climb is massive. Imagine saving a bit here and there, it just adds up. Of course normies don't need it and can save the money, but it's a lot for pros / good cyclists
If you’re sub 60k yes. And youthful. If older. Not. For fun and frisky riding weight does; Still; Tho, make for a nicer ride. All ages and power performance benefit from a sexy light bike. Sweet spot likely 105 shimano low grade carbon high grade alu. After this it’s if you’ve got the money you may as well go lighter. Not necessary. But …..
5’9 usually around 85/90kg bodybuilder I’m not in best of shape at the moment sitting around 100kg oh.. I feel the difference big time
Some of these numbers are not correct, 250w for 56minutes is 840kJ of work done. Energy needed to raise 83kg by 1000m is 814kJ . So 97% of all work done was needed to beat gravity , only 3% left for aero drag , tyre rolling resitance and drive train is just not realistic. Given that time and weight are easy to measure accurately then either it wasn't a 1000m climb or power meter is under reading.
speaking of power to weight in relative terms all the time but then putting those absolute 5 watts out there. 🤪
for someone really light the numbers might be a bit different. Just keep that in mind, some of us weigh around 60kg...
I'm probably about 94 kilos with my bike currently - 79 kg of bodyweight plus my kit and a Triban which aren't lightweight bikes at all. So I'd maybe save 5 minutes on my weekend climbs if I went crazy and bought a carbon fiber aero rocket. I think I'll do more squats and deadlifts instead.