Realistic Smallsword Duels in a Movie? - The Duellists (1977)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- This movie is known for having some of the most authentic looking fight scenes, and is considered a classic for its cinematography, storytelling, and acting. So how true to historical reality are the duels really? Let take a look and make some comparisons to 18th century smallsword fencing manuscripts.
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The 2nd fight scene is like Capra Demon boss fight with these camera angles
That’s a good reference
The dung throwing spot is more spacious.
Ever heard of nameless king?
@@kormityourboyyy491 technically it’s Storm King that fucks the camera about a lot.
Only Lower Undead Burg kids will get this reference :]
Talk about “don’t kill the messenger”!
They in fact liked the dueling they did. Never wanted to kill one another too early. Opponents but with some sort of friendship. Not in the movie tho.
@@HanSolo__ Yeah I thought so. Cant imagine them duelling that much If not at least one of them didn't really enjoy it or had to fear for his life. Its more like people challenging you to a 1v1-NoScope in a video game
His insult to Gabriel, was Duberts failure to cover for him after he fought the duel to defend the honor of their own, 7th Hussars. That first skewered Austrian, had wiped his boots on their regiments flag, provoking the start of the film.
I have found a game on Mobile called: Knight Fight 2: Honor and Glory and I think you could talk about is it realistic
Remember, guys.
Killing a messenger might invoke the wrath of cavalry archers way from the other side of the earth
Good points regarding formal vs informal technique. One of my martial arts masters had a saying: "The form preserves the art, but the art is not a form."
I think the camera in the sabre duel is all crazy because of the nature of that space: it's tight, there's light and shadow, it's confusing, it's desperate, trickery and mind games won that fight. The counter to that is the duels in the open, well lit, steady camera, the more skilled FENCER wins, not always the better FIGHTER, I think that was something the film was trying to convey: Carradine is the faster thinker and cunning. Keitel is the better straight up fencer.
For things such as TV, before widescreen televisions, directors and cameramen had to keep actors unusually close together in order to keep them both within the shot. You'll notice that in older tv shows, such as Star Trek TNG, when the actors are having a face-to-face conversation. For the close in shots with both actors conversing, you can tell they would be within each other's uncomfortable personal space if that was RL. While movies weren't as restricted due to theaters having widescreen, perhaps the tendency was still there and they still planned on getting closer shots of the action which are still able to fit in a cut-down 4:3 screen ratio, to some extent, after the edges of the film gets chopped down to fit.
Yes, this was a choice in blocking, not camerawork.
Yea they wanted a very tight frenetic feeling for the first duel, making it hard to tell what will happen next, making the audience as uncomfortable as Carradine
This.
Yea thank you, its also a duel thats not planned, its more of a sudden brawl, making the camera feel as unprepared as Caradines character
I train and fence smallsword regularly- here's an explanation of some of why it looks different from rapier
Point of the sword is angled down to that it's easy to target the wrist and hand, at least in a lot of Italian or Italian derived traditions.
As for binds, binds are not a thing as much in smallsword because the weapons are so light and fast that it is nearly impossible to actually gain control for long enough to do something. Parries in smallsword are generally fast beat parries followed by a repost. Thrusts don't have to be given with a bind of actual blade contact, just so long as the sword is covering the correct line.
Hopefully you find this helpful.
tell them about impasse
yeah, that's true
same thing with a foil in modern fencing
quick successive strike-parry-ripost and then a touch
What’s a bind and a repost?
@@VanLupen A bind is when the two weapons are egde on edge, "binded" together. A ripost is when you parry a strike and then immediately strike back.
Yeah, that seemed to be the case for me. I couldn't see any point in angling the blade down except for giving the opponent an opening - so you can then close the trap. Obviously, you'd never do this against an experienced opponent but it just shows the control Feraud had over the Mayor's nephew
Skall. You 100% need to review the fight scenes/battle scenes from Alatriste with viggo mortensen. Amazing fencing choreography and realistic weapons 👌🏻
yes yes yes upvote this ^
YES I've been asking Matt Easton the same thing. Please cause it's a really good film.
Great idea!
Oh yesssss!
Yes, that one is really good too.
gahh, every time he pierces him completely through with that small-sword, I cringe inwardly. For some reason, a very surgical, realistic blow is way more impactful mentally than some exaggerated CGI blood and gore equivalent.
There is certainly an application for avoiding the bind in small sword, and rapier as well. As you say the bind gives information which can be useful. That information goes both ways. Often times I find that if I avoid the bind (using low guard for example) I can deny my opponent the information they're accustomed to having and bait them into making an attack without control which I can then pick up and counter attack WITH control. Avoiding the bind strips away the artifice of the whole thing and forces your opponent into a situation where they have to make a decision between staying defensive (this gives you time to plan and execute your own plans) or going offensive, even though they have no ability to secure a bind and therefore control of your blade. Neither situation is good for them. Of course it's not all positives. To pull it off you have to be very sure of your footwork, measure and your ability to gain control of your opponents fastest attack without being hit. A small error in any of those and you're dead as you've essentially lowered your defense. Like all things, it's risk versus reward.
Yes. With short blade it is more natural when there is no binding. The launch forward is the same in range only the blade lenght changes. Well, "only".
Yeah and the less forward weighted and light you sword is, the easier you blade to knock and push aside, generally.
So by avoiding blade engagement, you might catch your opponent into playing your unconventional game unprepared, which makes the duel into something like mental tug of war. Nice
I think in the context of the movie, the experienced fighter would be vary of trying to try a bind, because his inexperienced adversarys reaction would be to unpredictable.
@@Flexsan A new fighter is always wildly unpredictable and thus dangerous. I personally find that binds are very strong against inexperienced fighters. They don't understand lines or how to open and close them very well in general. I can certainly see how one might want to stay as far away as possible though haha.
One of the best depictions of duelling on film. A classic !
Indeed. I much prefer it to any other films I'm aware of.
@@getsideways7257 Try Potop, 'The Deluge'. Being not Polish, I cannot speak of it with the obvious pride they do, but Kmicic vs Wolodyjowski is a fine duel.
@@Count.Saruman I meant, including that.
I feel like the lack of binding in the first duel is explained by that first exchange. The worse fencer just swipes wildly at the blade when the experienced one tries to move to a crossing, so he just decides to probe the former until he opens up to be thrusted through.
Being in a fight is a very intense thing. In a short amount of time a man quickly realizes he is either superior or outclassed. Very real and intense. You never forget your fights. We are not talking about sparring or practice either. Good vid.
William Hobbies insists, whenever possible, on actors using steel blade props, and not aluminum, let alone fiberglass. That translates to real time actions and realistic speed.
Me: How have I never seen this video?
Also me: Oh, it came out today.
Same 😂
I love how Harvey Keitel uses Passata Soto to strike the winning blow in their smallsword duel. One of my favorite techniques.
Interesting historical note - Feraud and d'Hubert's hair braids (known as cadenettes
) weren't just for fashion. Hussars would insert small flexible wood or iron rods into the braids to protect the sides of their faces from sabre slashes.
Guys fighting the crap out of each other.
Cows: oh, the grass over here looks delicious!
It was okay I guess
Fisting?
I think in the first clip, since his opponent is so nervous and swiping at almost every forward movement, I think it's safe to say that binding wasn't really going to happen, and Pierre realised this right away. His opponent was severely inexperienced, and too scared to be too close.
When i first watched this movie i thought "what happened to this realistic sword fighting in Ridley Scott's later movies ?"
It's just gone.. even if Gladiator or Kingdom of Heaven, Robin Hood were great movies. The sword fights are not anything close to this. That's a little sad how hollywood ruined this kind of skill display.
Laziness. It is easier to find good smallsworders and saberists because olympic fencing is sorta of based on that but gladiatorial fighters and medieval fencing are a ton more niche.
Becaise it wasn't flash enough, and won't attract much audience.
I don't know about Robin Hood bit Kingdom of heaven and Gladiator were great movies
Hollywood hasn't ruined it at all. You can still see good realistic sword fights in Hollywood films, you're just not likely to see it in films telling fictional stories. The fact is, those films you mention are fictional. They might be set in historical time periods, but they're fictional hero vs villain, good vs evil type things. As such, their sword fights are expected to be more...theatrical and flashy. Realistic sword fighting just doesn't work there. But it works in films like The Duellists because they're based on actual events, so realism is expected.
@@Shadowkey392 name three Hollywood movies with realistic sword fighting. So i can change my mind. :D
0:53
I didn't know Napoléon's Grande Armée had survived till 1974. Why, I had a chance to join up!
@Guacamole Nigga Penis No, no! It's perfectly true! My french friend M. Escroc Menteur joined in 1974 and got a position in the Old Guard regiment.
@@Count.Saruman When they said ‘Old Guard’ they REALLY meant hella old.
Imagine Napoleon's army with Famas!
The army was over by 1814. Don't know what this guy is on. A joke of some kind maybe.?
@@ebbhead20 A year late to the party, but here we go. I find it incredibly obvious that this a joke about Skall's timeline flub in the video.
I also quite literally list the hypothetical person's name as "Escroc Menteur" which translates to "Lying crook".
Excellent breakdown. I did fencing for years, as well as historical battle re-enactment and the one thing an experienced swordfighter/fencer knows is that when up against someone who is clearly less experienced, 80% of what you do is psychological. I've always loved that aspect of duels. Not just simply being cocky but being smart enough to know how to intimidate without putting yourself at risk
What about the second sabre duel, when they fight to a stand-still in a cellar?
This scene is a great example of learning about a character without dialogue. Gotta give credit to Harvey Keitel here; he had never used a sword before filming and tells you so much about who Feraud is just by how he acts in the opening duel.
I read the original account of the two duellists years ago and while I may be misremembering slightly it made it out that the two were rather friendly as every time they duelled they got together the night before for dinner and drinks.He contrived to end the duels in the end because he wanted to get married and I really like the reported parting statement:
If you ever wish to duel again, the next duel will be with pistols, your favourite weapon, and the first two shots will be mine. Distance, three feet
Perfect timing I just rewatched this the other day.
The same. Yesterday and then true story video about the two. Its possible the higher ranked fighter was in fact someone else because one couldn't duel with a soldier of higher rank. And this is the case here because the "ofended" was striped out of his rank.
6:50 I always analyzed this particular scene a little different, with the other guy making a mistake, not noticing his opponent being able to disengage. Scared of being skewered, he grabs the blade in an attempt to minimize damage, but of course, the blade being drawn back slices his hand. The pain breaks what little focus he had left entirely, resulting in the guy being run through.
I am really surprised you waited this long to make this video, can't complain tho... NEW CONTENT!
I remember saying in previous videos as well that I was hoping you would get to this film. Nice to finally see it happen.
I loved this book when I was a kid. I saw the movie on cable TV back in the 80s and I could feel the desperation. It has build up. It was like watching a National Geographics episode about insects. You have that type of fear, but of being cut. I adore the Duelist.
Great review. it was a fairly low budget movie, It’s the scenery, the music, the costumes and the atmosphere that make this a truly great movie.
But does anybody get sent to the shadow realm?
Lol Egyptian duelist. I think ancient lazer beam are a bit too unrealistic, right?
@@indraservo5764 depends on your view of history
Atleast twice
How could they be sent to a place that never existed in the first place?
@@黒い達人 It's a joke m8.
I was hoping for this one! Great movie and short story (Conrad is one of the greats; for those who are unaware, Apocalypse Now is a retelling of one of his novels, but he has many more that could be adapted).
Another nitpick of their main small sword stance with the hand higher than the point is that they have a bent wrist to lower that point which has weaker structure than if they had point up and a straighter wrist.
Not to mention that if the point is looking straight in the face, not only it's hard to judge the distance to it, it's also quite psychologically scarring :)
If classical foil is anything to go by, it's plenty historical. In a supinated, or palm up guard, it's natural to bend the wrist, and it's also illustrated in a number of manuals. Whether or not it's a good idea is a different question, but this particular technique isn't ahistorical.
@@matthewpham9525 I completely agree, I was pointing out an observation of mine
omg a higher hilt than blade tip is literally basic defense 5 and 6 in the introduction to fencing.
The way I see it is Keitel's character is doing this as an intimidation factor, further throwing off his opponent's calm, or since he isn't calm, his nervousness, fear, thus driving him to make mistakes, Keitel is reading him and doing this on purpose, he's calm compared to the frantic actions of his opponent, thus he can afford a bit of studied show- boating.
I have to say that I really enjoy your fight reviews, and Matt Easton's as well. They're very balanced, well thought out, don't go too far in the praise or the criticism.. I also like that you bring up examples from the treatises to explain and support your views. Much better than Shad's who tends to just tear things apart because he doesn't like the movie or finds few flaws because he likes the movie.
@Guacamole Nigga Penis Yup, that's the main one, but his Star Wars reviews were just as bad. The only thing that I agreed with Shad in his Mulan review was the one arrow shot from the wall. Everything else I thought was just about how he didn't like the movie and because of that, he's going to tear it apart and not look at any of it in context in terms of actor's safety, setting, what the writer/director were trying to achieve and so on.
@Guacamole Nigga Penis I agree, the whole cutting through metal armor thing really needs to go away. Unless the character is super humanly strong, there's no way that they're cutting or even stabbing through metal armor with a sword or dagger.
Shad has so much charisma though 🤣
When I was practicing HEMA with a longsword, my instructor once said 'Manuscripts show the perfect form. Real life shows the "close enough" form.' Perfect Alber may look different than my actual Alber due to my previous injuries (broken off hand wrist), but works the same. Techniques are meant to be adjusted to their users and their limitations, be it height, movement imparements, or simply being left handed (which I am).
I’ve been looking forward to this
They fought in 1974? Huh, I guess the film was based on recent events.
The rumor has it they are fighting to this day :)
69th like.
Dang, you skipped the second sabre duel where Dubere got part of his shoulder sliced off. Excellent film though.
I absolutely love this film. Thanks for the video!
Something I'm curious about, and not sure if Skall already made a video on the subject, why and how did Sabre's and Rapier's became the favored sword as time went on? What are their benefits compared to older medieval weapons that fell out of favor?
Sabre is better on horseback, so it was used for military applications because the only way swords could be used in the gunpowder era is on horseback. The rapier is a specialized dueling sword, made for civilian duels. Thus, logic dictates that it is better than the other swords at dueling
@@susamogus5693 Also, the heavier weapons, mace, warhammer, et al. were designed to defeat armor. Only the cuirassiers/ heavy cavalry wore any, and theirs was only full breastplate and gorget. I believe pikemen, musketeers, and others wore a 'buff coat'; I don't know the effectiveness of it.
If took about a hundred years for the rapier to gain ascendancy, over the side-sword, it was more a matter of fashion, as opposed to practicality, the side sword developed from the war swords as armor became less important because of the development of firearms in both military and civilian usage, and the smallsword was a further development of the rapier as a refinement of technique.
The Camera work although not ideal for technique analysis is actually really good and goes a long way to convey the "narrative" in the duels, it intensifies as the fight goes on and replicates the state of the mind of the duelists, but yes it's not very clear what's happening a lot of times, but it's not just Marvel's 'shaky camera cause hiring a choreographer is expensive"
the reason for the armguard thing, is because he was practicing fencing earlier i think, at least from what i remember, and was pretty much infringed upon while doing so, he was having a friendly duel and Gabriel just came up to him and told him they will fight pretty much.
i'm really glad about the coverage on the fact that dueling isn't always so clean though, like there's no way in hell that someone is gonna stick to the manual 100% of the time, sometimes you just want to win or survive and you become reckless and just flail away, or suplex the one you're fighting. Like i'm sure that even in HEMA, there's not always an "ideal situation" BUT! if you have trained for years, actually fought apponents and know everything you're doing 100% of the time, ofc you will know exactly what to do in any situation, but i highly doubt you'll be able to stick to the manual when SHTF, and the apponent just throws his weapon at you, and shoots you in the thigh with a flintlock XD
1st duel a point that stands out for me, in the bigger panic counters , "freaking out" of the inferior fencer. You have a civilian that has probably never had to literally fight for his life, against a veteran of war and a long history of dueling. A known killer, who he knows and we learn, will fight a duel to the death, if you fart in his presence. To the civilian no matter what grand ideal of honor, need be adhered to that brought him to this moment. To Gabriel Feraud, it was just another saturday.
An amazing thing for me in this movie, is all the in and out of range work, between 2 actors, no stunt doubles. No buttons or tips on their swords. Not many actors in the 70's could pull off or have those skill sets that were so prevalent amongst all the great early action film stars.
Great review
Now we need someone to make a feature of the book The Last Duel. Amazing bit of history, law and judicial combat.
funny how I discovered this movie literally yesterday. Love you Skall !
Just added this film to my collection and finished watching it - very well done. At times the fighters exhibit fear, nervousness, and anger, and it definitely makes the fights feel more real and less like a choreography.
Harvey Keitel kills it. My favourite actor by far. This is a great movie :)
Came for the sword fighting, stayed for the French pronunciation
Did you say they fought in 1974? Guessing you meant 1794?
No, actually. They were time travelers
lmao I wasn't sure if I misheard that
@Steven Lindsey Except it was made in 1977?
It may be a skallagrim's minor oversight, I think he meant what you said, its 1700s
My favorite aspect of the second duel is how quickly it ends. A slip, a stab and it's done.
There are some rapier masters who recommend not to bind at all, and to use your judgement instead. I think it's Fabris from memory.
Really good analysis. My sword experience is very limited, (a little bit of Japanese "longsword", as an add on to my classical jujuitsu 5th dan), but one comment Skallagrim made really stands out; as one of my instructors once said "there's a huge difference between Dojo Art, and pub technique". In a real fight, with blood in both combatants' eyes, so to speak, classroom stuff is the first thing to go. Loved this. Oh, and it;s a fantastic film!
Simply one of my favorite films. So much of it is a still life brought into motion. The fight scenes are a bit frustrating when viewed solely from a technical analysis perspective, but what IMO they do convey quite well is how much the essential will of the combatants matters. Considered from that purpose the camera angles and edits make much more sense.
2:23 A little bit nit picky, on the Skallagrim channel? I never thought I'd see the day
The second duel camera work is to convey his rage at being humiliated. And it does an excellent job.
And now there's another Ridley Scott film about a duel that's coming to theaters in October. Hopefully we'll see some proper fencing there too!
13:00 That duel description makes me wish you'd cover the duel James Bowie was involved in.
I bit slow at times but it really is a great film. The story is immersive, the acting is done well and the ending is fantastic.
Skall... I had the most realistic dream that you were in last night lol. We weren’t even discussing weapons or combat, I was just trying to explain to my friends who you are and how awesome it was that you were hanging out with us lol...
I love this kind of content from you. Your analysis is good. Don’t discount your experience with rapier when evaluating smallsword: they’re related with small differences. Many of the same ideas apply to both since they are both thrust centric techniques.
The rapid cuts and annoying camera angles basically come down to health and safety (or timidness on the part of the filmmakers if you want to view it differently.) Filming a whole fight sequence-including possible showing blows connecting- can lead to injury. Its also very taxing if you have to film multiple takes. So they tend to just have the actors film it in pieces and cobble together a scene in editing. This is why fight scenes in old Eastern kung-fu movies were so fun. They were willing to film a whole scene without cuts, which makes the fights more engaging but could also lead to injuries for the actors.
Emotions would play a part as well I'd think. Even hardened veteran warriors get angry and blood rushes to their head.
I got the DVD because someone made a Music Video of this with Iron Maiden's Duelist. I really like the fight various fights scenes but I most definitely agree that the camera shots of the fights made it really hard to see what they were doing.
I'm from the Philippines living in the US, there's a 1981 movie called Maestro. Dueling using either Epee or Foil. Guns in my country is illegal, so when there is a fight or a gang fight we commonly use rattan sticks, bolos, machetes and slingshots. I may not speak the language, I watch Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, India, South Korea and Japanese movies. Anything that has a sword or knife fight. Most of them does not work in a street fight and some do. And its scary sometimes when you actually experience it, before you've seen the movie. Sword and knife Fights always ends in seconds not minutes and there is no form. There is no 1, 2, 3, 4 moves. The adrenalin is kicking, heart is pumping fast did not even know you got 100 cuts and deep wounds. You just drop because of lost of blood and wake up in the hospital bed. The patients besides you are your brothers in arms who along side fought with you or the other party.
Ridley Scott is currently directing The Last Duel about the last judicial duel in France.
Oohh hell yeah I was waiting for you to cover this! :D
If you (anyone who reads this) have not seen the movie I heartily recommend it. Aside from the fencing scenes the acting is on point (pun!), the costumes are sharp (pun!) and the story binds you (sort of a pun, not really). One of my top ten movies for sure.
Without being as well versed in historical fencing as Skall I really cannot vouch for the veracity or realism of the fightscenes but I do think they convey different emotion, tension and context in an admirable way.
Again, really recommend giving it a watch.
10:02 that scene, and most of the film really, is Ferreau just fucking showing up out of nowhere and dragging Dubert into one more duel haha there's no fairness involved, if I'm not mistaken there's even asymetric weapons duel at some point
I don't remember anything asymmetric. I remember the first impromptu duel with sabres, the smallsword duel, the second duel with sabres in a kind of basement or something, a mounted duel with sabres and then the final duel in the woods with two pistols.
@@GhostEye31 I might be mistaken then, I thought in one of them only one had a pistol etc
Formal techniques and perfect form and choices are best made when sparing. When your actual life is threatened, it's a lot easier for a 'skilled' fencer to make mistakes when your life's on the line and you're under real pressure.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, It seems to me what you're essentially saying is that if you had no prior experience you'd be better off not taking any lessons if you got challenged to a duel because you might muck up some complex technique. I utterly disagree, any amount of training is better than none so long as you don't try to run before you can walk. Ordinarily an unskilled fencer would make far more mistakes than a skilled one whether they were in the salle or fighting a duel, they just wouldn't necessarily wouldn't they were mistakes until it was too late...
Formal techniques existed to instill good practice. Good practice kept fencers alive, but only once practiced sufficiently that they became second nature. Once they're thoroughly committed to muscle memory, then you can rely on even complex fencing techniques under highly stressed situations. Skilled fencers still could - and did - make mistakes but the idea that they were 'more' likely to make mistakes than an unskilled fencer is nonsense to me.
I have personal experience that with enough training and practice the moves become instinctive and you will be able to pull them off successfully without thinking about them under pressure. I used to fence competitively and larp regularly and I appreciate that's not "life or death" but when character death is possible, the consequences to losing a fight in a larp can still feel high stakes - certainly equivalent to gambling with consequential amounts of money, which I have also done. Under such circumstances I have, on occasion, managed to defeat "enemies" by performing complex sequences of fencing moves instinctively when ambushed, outnumbered or otherwise running on adrenaline in a "character death" scenario. It's just a matter of training. I've also died on my ass from time to time because I made mistakes, but without my prior training I would have lost 'every' time.
@@mattbowden4996 You miss read me. I'm basically saying even the well practiced and very good/skillful can still make rookie mistakes when life and death stressors start affecting you. Practice minimises the cock ups, but it will never be eliminated. Be it fencing or anything really. Didn't read the wall of text thoroughly but skimmed it (sorry, little sleep last night, 2 hours at best) and not been up long. It can apply to most things which involve life death situations.
Essentially, even the best people can make cock ups. And sparing and larping and so on do NOT simulate actual life/death. You've never had a live blade put in your direction with the intent to end your life. There's no preparation for that, none. Only the deluded think it.
I'm sure you're the exception. Anyways, on to the next vid. Feel free to disagree. It's a topic not worth going on with. I'm stupid for bothering to common on youtube anyway, it's wasted energy. I just like the video.
When I was little, my martial arts instructor (An ex-Army Ranger.) told me that 90% of training goes out the window in a real fight. Years later, when I joined the Marine Corps, I found this to be true...
However, that 10% won me several fights... Just train at 1,000% and you'll be good.
@@Forscythe80 Well, as it happens I have had a live blade pointed at me with ill intent - some twenty odd years ago I was mugged in London. I gave the gentleman in question my wallet and escaped unharmed, as seemed to be the most prudent course of action at the time. I didn't mention this because - aside from being an unpleasant memory - I did not think this experience was relevant to the discussion as at the time I was neither armed, nor was I in any position to fight back and it was before I learned to fence anyway. However, it just goes to show that you should never say never - you can't know what strangers have and have not experienced.
Please note that I took pains to point out that I was not infallible or "special" but merely had some first hand experience of the value of training. Whilst I can confirm it is nothing like being threatened with a knife, larping (or at least larping where character death is a real risk, which is not always the case) is nothing like sparring either. There is something at stake - something you have probably invested lots of time, energy and money into - and if you screw up it is usually gone for good with no takebacks. Accordingly, although it is on its face a very silly hobby, I genuinely believe that larping can give us some (extremely) limited insight into the experience of life and death combat that we can't gain from conventional competition - in particular how the emphasis becomes less about winning and more about NOT losing. As I said, the pressure is most akin to gambling with meaningful amounts of money - fighters typically become much more risk averse and are likely to flee (fold) if they feel they are outmatched - but no, it is nothing like being threatened with a knife.
@@Ranstone A lot of that depends on how long you've been training, and how accustomed you are to having live punches thrown your way. With experience that 10% gets a lot higher. The thing about military training in particular is that you don't have enough time to train to the point where you're ready to apply most of what you've learned in a fight. The key to it is how much of your muscle memory you've managed to replace with proper technique, because that muscle memory is what you'll instinctively fall back on.
Oh my god, I've wanted you to look at this for ages!
@Skallagrim Have you done a review of the fight scenes in the 1970's version of the Three (and Four) Musketeers? Especially the fights between Michael York (Dartagnan) and Christopher Lee (Rochefort). I think they're some of the best I've seen on film, because is shows the fighters getting exhausted, sloppy, desparate. I also liked how the other scenes incorporated other obstacles into the fights. The "drunken man" who picked a fight with Porthos was actually the sword master for those movies, who sadly was not listed in the credits. (I've since misplaced his name as well...)
I believe there wouldn't have been a bind specifically for what you already mentioned, one guy was way less skilled than the other. It's quite possible he has no knowledge of the bind, and therefore doesn't even bother attempting it, which leave no option of it for the more skilled opponent. Thus, they are left fighting a more freeform style of duel.
Last time I was this early skall shot the reaver cleaver!
You missed the duel in the barn, the best one.
The deuellists is one of my favourite movies, and Ridley Scott is one of my favourite directors. It is one of those movies where every scene is like an oil painting, an absolute classic.
Nah, Ridley Scott was riffing on Stan Kubrick's Barry Lyndon, I know what you mean though :-)
7:00 My wife is an experienced fencer and took me to the training once. As a beginner I sometimes instinctively tried to grab or push away the opponents blade with my left hand to protect myself. A thing that no experienced fencer will ever do.
About the sharpness of the blades: I don't know about real blades from times long ago, but even the blades used in sport fencing were pretty jagged and spiked from hundreds of contacts between the weapons. Even pulling one of these blades through someones hand will hurt and problably leave a bleeding wound. I guess it would not cut to the bone.
Skall, I enjoy your videos. Good job mate. I was wondering if you would ever take a look at the Rob Roy duels for a review, in particular the last one. I'm aware it's been done by others but it would be interesting to hear from your point of view and experience and for fun of course :)
That meme you are talking about is one of the most upvoted posts on r/swords if I remember correctly
You forgot to mention that monsieur "I WILL NOT EVEN TRY RO WRITE THE NAME HERE" used the sword guard to punch at 9:47
Regarding the first duel, one thing I'd like to point out is that neither of them are really professional fencers, at least not in the sense of someone who has been training for years just for this. Faroud is a cavalry officer and judging by his confidence here it seems like this is not his first time doing this, but the story that follows and even his name, "Gabriel Faroud" suggest that he has a very common origin (as opposed to an aristocratic sounding name like "D'Hubert, whom we meet later). As a commoner, he probably came "up through the ranks" in the new Revolutionary army. I imagine him as someone with a great deal of natural skill and a very forceful personality, but not much in the way of formal training.
In the case of the mayor's nephew, he clearly lacks confidence and presumably experience. I imagine him as a guy who stuck his foot in his mouth by insulting Faroud's regiment and now finds himself in a jam that he clearly wishes he could get out of. Again, that would seem to indicate that he hasn't spent more than a token amount of time training for something like this. Maybe a few lessons as a teenager, but he probably never expected to have to use it. ("Hey! My uncle's the mayor! What I gotta worry about?")
The French Army did have dueling courses even though Napoleon was not a fan of duels generally.
Feraud probably received some formal training at sometime but practiced on his own. Maybe he has access to some sources of the time. Maybe a few manuals or so. But he's trained enough I'd say. Clearly beat the nephew of the Mayor of Strasbourg.
He has a reputation of dueling often. Clearly he survived them.
Remember that this character, while certainly having training in smallsword, was from the lower classes so he was not necessarily a fencing master. He was an experienced fighter who had killed before, and this counts for a lot.
passata fucking soto is such a power move, I am not even kidding.
As a medical professional of about 25 yrs the thrust at about the 8:20 mark is spot on to the heart
Yea he dead
As other comments said over here, i'd love to see you analize Alatriste, an old spanish movie. Love your videos, love from Spain.
3:29 The experienced guy looks to be in a fairly normal quarte position to me, but instead of being in the guard he is in the parry stance so to speak. He could do a flèche from that position which of course you wouldn't want to telegraph like that, but given an inexperienced and nervous opponent it might get the opponent even more nervous. I could see him inviting the opponent to engage his blade (as in attack the blade), which is stupid but might feel instinctive for someone whose experience consists mostly of practicing guards, parries and steps. And, of course, he is inviting an attack low. I froze the video at this point, and I'm wondering if it will follow up on one of these lines -- I have watched this movie before, but back when it was first released and never since.
Regarding the off hand, the position is not considered a big deal as far as I know. "Don't let it get hit" is what I heard back when I practiced épée, which leaves a lot to room! :) For the experienced guy, the off hand position looks good. For the inexperienced guy, it looks atrocious, though it kind of feel like it is a stance for a main gauche? I have no experience with main gauche and it doesn't make sense to me in the context, but I can't watch it and not think there's something missing in that hand.
Hey it's a little silly but can you do a video about using a BROOM ( saying there's nothing around but a broom) effectively in a combat situation
omg didn't know that is the brother of David Carradine the actor who played in kill bill
The two DO have a dirty, messy duel Skal. I think it might even be the one right after the third one you examined.
I wanna see a part two of this
Great video and solid analysis. I like that you realized that practice is a lot different from sparring/competition/real fights. Still gotta watch this movie.
Aah! This ended too soon, I was expecting you to go through all of the duels in the movie xD
Your efforts for pronouncing french are highly appreciated ^^
That's a masterpiece of a movie.
Great review! I saw this film when it was a bit newer, and it was very exciting to see the duels. Ahh, to be young again :-)
I've been wishing for this review for SO LONG! :D
9:54 "the strange padded armguard" is a falconer's glove. I'm not sure how common that was to wear during duels but maybe it's supposed to illustrate that he's an aristocrat.
I think the camera work on the saber duel is to convey how hard it actually is. Ever been in the boxing ring? I can assure you it’s nothing like Rocky.
Perhaps the protective cover is due to Feraud's sword being sharpened at the tip and the other wasn't. The seconds may have negotiated this allowance for fairness.
hello to France, un grand merci pour votre prononciation impeccable des noms Français!!! superbe analyse comme à votre habitude!!! Bravo et merci! Soyez béni! God bless you!
The arm guard in the third clip looks to be one that a hawk would land on during hunting. I feel like that's what it was, but I don't remember as I haven't seen this film in a few years.
That's actually great to know that fights are not at all that clean, specially given the fact that some duels are for judgment and that the names of the participants' loved ones may also be at stake, making it seemingly more despairing.
I never even got to the review and I already have my day made by the fact that these gentlemen fought in 1974, damn, those were the days