@bernardlouis4629 The highs are pleasantly pulled down just a tad and there is certainly more clarity overall for a crisp and detailed sound. The increased presence with improved mids from a change to a 2.5 way configuration is very welcome and probably the best change in my opinion. Warm guitars from the likes of The Sheepdogs really come to life. As does brass, and as a fan of horns of all types in music, they sound awesome now. Finally, the reason I opted to upgrade my Klipsch for $650 instead of buying $4k Dali Opticon 8s was because of the lively, dynamic style of the Klipsch and how it digs pretty deep without subs. So how was the bass affected? With NoRez fully lining the walls, the cabinet is far more inert than before. Bass seems to me not as deep now by a few hertz, but it is far more precise and clean. I think the boominess of the cabinet was giving the impression of more bass, but it was "dirty bass"(?). Again, I am a believer now and would highly encourage 8000F owners to do this. The speakers just aren't the same speaker after the upgrade. It is well worth the time and effort. I am going to REW them and compare the plots to before the upgrade but I think this may be a matter of "measurements are only part of the story". My speakers measured beautifully flat at MLP before so I am very interested to see the new plots.
@@harisjaved1379 Pssshh. Wilson Audio can't come close to the puppies now! Joking, obviously. They really do sound great for a set of sub $1500 speakers ($900 USD used + upgrade).
So. If you base your upgrade kits on a single speaker measurement, isn't there a high risk of your other kits to not be correct because of age and wear on your singular tested speaker? This Jamo speaker surely isn't the only one which degrade over time but it's the only one I've seen where you do a revisit.
Typically any variation or drift from normal is due to the ageing of capacitors especially electrolytic caps. The other is the deterioration of foam surrounds in woofers. Ferro fluid in tweeters can also get out of spec. So all of those things have to be considered, but for the most part I find older drivers to still be within a reasonable and average tolerance of each other.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you for answering. I'm curious to how you go about verifying that there is not degradation due to the ageing of your tested speaker as it is the direct and only baseline for your upgrade kits?
haha I got pair of concert 11, 2 pairs of concert 8, an jamo d8cen pair og jamo d8sur and a jamo thx d6sub. hello from jamo's birth town glyngøre, currently working with some of the acoustic engineers, and some of the old workers from jamo. I have no complains about mine, they wasn't any wiser back in the days remember the speaker is from around 1997, 27 years old.
I wish someone would send you Concert11 (I think it's D870). I have a pair but live in the UK. Love the speakers but I'm sure there is a room for improvement.
If I was loaded I would be interested to try this for a fun experiment, unfortunately that would cost 500$ for shipping there and back, and then probably 500-800$ for a 3-way crossover depending on how many parts Danny thinks it needs. Not gonna spend over 1000$ to try out a different crossover design that may not sound as good 20-30deg off axis. I don’t have a dedicated listening room, so my stereo system pulls double duty as my HT mains, so off axis performance is important to me. Especially considering that these speakers sound absolutely amazing in my setup already.
@@dusantomic9983 Yeah, chasing that dragon of “but what if I’d could sound EVEN better!?” will devastate your wallet and seldom satisfy. Everything becomes a trade off when you already have good gear and speakers. I’ve tried better DACs and Amps over the past few years whenever some new product gets hype, but always return them in the window after A/Bing with my trusty Cambridge AXR100 for a few weeks. Some have sounded a bit better, others worse, but none have justified their cost compared to my “budget” integrated amp.
Help Me Danny. PLEASE?? I took out the Seas Woofers and replaced the gasket material. Now its managed to glue itself in and i cant remove them. How do i do it without ruining them. Ive tried everything
When we get to a point of pointing out lack of zip ties......we all know we have a winner of a speaker. The reason these sold for $2,500 20 years ago (approx. $3,800 today) is because they are SPECTACULAR. They blow mw away every time i turn my system on and make me look forward to my listening time. End Game. Aint broke, no fixin. Ty
....you are more competent than Dynaudio, Seas, Scan Speak, Sonus Faber, ....simply everyone at the end. You modify everything. This is crazy! ...but why aren't you employed there at one of such top companies? You do some good research but.... Please, I would like to ask you to stay more at reality.
Hello Danny, i have now opened up both my concert 11, concert 8 and my concert center. I do not see any discoloration on my internal cables, however I opened one of my concert 8 sets and I can see on the driver that it had some white powder like corrosion on it and that might be from the guy I bought that pair from being a heavy e-vaper 💨. I have a theory maybe the US market got lesser quality speakers ? maybe the cables couldn't handle getting shipped over seas ? mine are totally clean on every speaker with original cables highly shine copper cable not even close to turning brown ?
Yeah, I have had a matching pair of X-Statik's and an X-Voce sitting around in here for assembly. They will be my personal pair for my theater room. I am finally getting them done.
I receiced my kit but no instructions on the circuit. Also i cannot figure out how to install the tube connectors. The kit has been sitting for mo ths because im not getting the time to contact gr research. 😔
What a bargain! Congratulations! I bought my Jamo D870 (previous name Concert 11) as new in 1998 and I still have them in my living room. Very good High End speakers.
It's not poly cone- they use magnesium for this. They also have a graphene treated magnesium and the cone looks about the same. Btw. you should include the graphs with
Had these beautiful speakers since 2002. Just had the new owner come collect them this weekend gone. It was very difficult to let them go but I'd rather have some listen to them over them sitting in the spare room. 😢
Major tone change between this upgrade/review, and the last one. What was wrong with the speakers the first time? Was it dried up ferrofluid or burned up voice coils? That would be helpful information for anyone considering buying a pair of these secondhand. Your measurements this time definitely look like they correspond with the subjective listening reviews that you can read online still for these speakers. Supposedly very bright in the upper vocal range and with stringed instruments. One review indicated that one of the major differences between the bookshelf speaker and its big brother was the quality of the crossover net work and that was a sacrifice that they had to make to sell them for half the price of the tower speakers.
The response of the tweeter in the first one that I was sent was off. I really can't check the ferro fluid without taking the tweeter apart, which I did not do, and they have already been returned to the customer.
Re applying glue to the suspension of the woofers of my Concert 11, I managed to scratch the cone a bit and the shiny metal can be seen under the coat. Confirmednits not a poly cone.
It could be, but it is not at all like the typical Aluminum/Magnesium used in the standard production models. The standard models also have a LOT more ringing in the break up area up top.
@@dannyrichie9743 good evening Danny , I have owned a bunch over the decades , Eton and other brands , I could never understand the metal cones . I am very interested in your 3 inch wide band driver , I have some n.o.s. peerless made in Denmark not China, 6.5 inch mid bass drivers , I have stock spec sheets and was wondering of I could email you the spec sheets and see if there is a problem with matching the two as far as spl1w1m specs .
I watched your video on the Kef 150's...good job...have you ever done the Kef Q350's ?...i like them but very cheesy 1st order x-overs just like the Q150's...do you do a kit for the Q350's or would you know of an upgraded x-over schematic for them please? as very interested to get the best out of them...they could do with Tube Connectors, quality internal wire & some No-Reź to damp the cabinets...if not would the Q150 kit be useable with the Q350's ?...thank you....
Hey Danny! I saw your Tyler Acoustics videos. I just picked up an older pair of Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors. Did you do work on those too? Seas Excel midwoofers and ScanSpeak Revelator tweeters. Just wondering. Thanks.
"Aluminum" versus "Aluminium" is NOT a pronunciation thing, it is a spelling thing. I didn't know that any of American said Aluminium, I thought they all said Aluminum.
I have a '97 Issue of german hifi magazine "Audio", where they tested the Concert 8. I can confirm, their measurements look pretty identical to this one.
I bought a pair, then had a peak inside and discovered the rear side of both speakers had oxidisation exposing the yellow layer underneath, as these are custom drivers, and seas stopped producing the W17's, its impossible to get the W17Jam any more and only 2nd hand W17's, problem is they are 8R not 6R. Sound wise, with my old ears they sound great, bit forward in the highs (but they say thats normal on forums), as the forums suggested and you found, lower tweeter crossover suggested-so good you confirmed that. Those with corroded cones, you can slow the oxidisation process down by smearing a thin layer of natural wax, but not sure what the mass difference would do to the sound. I will probably get some 2nd hand W17's at some time, and try and adjust the crossover to work with the new 8R driver. Now a question, how would you expect the sound to change as the driver rear corrodes, assuming cone breakup is not effected and its just the cone mass getting lighter?
Thank you for this deep dive on the Concert 8. 2 questions, 1- I have never done any DIY speaker work, and the thought of dismantling my cherished original Pair makes me nervous, can a layperson succesfully complete this upgrade? 2- I have mine bi amped, let me know cost for extra pair of spade connectors. Had no idea about the steel in these things and its deleterious effects.
Nicely done. About the ”trade off”, this change is going from a dip on axis at 3kHz but flat power response to a peak at 3kHz in the power response. I’m not sure the latter is preferred. In a normal room the dip in axis would sound more neutral, natural and less harsh with the baby screams.
Agree. I’ve noticed a lot of Danny’s upgrade have this off-axis peak. Danny alludes to it being a baffle diffraction effect which does seem to make sense with the wavelengths involved. I guess this is the downside of a non-waveguide tweeter - you need to cross them higher to avoid this. Quite a balancing act. If Danny used more powerful measurement tools he could measure the predicted in-room response of his designs which would correlate much more closely to what listers hear in typical rooms.
@@dannyrichie9743 please show us the power response in your videos. It would be good to see if all the great work you do achieving a flat on-axis response is beneficial. You mention the 3KHz peak could be audible due to side wall reflections in some listening rooms. Maybe this would retain some of the original character of the factory sound?
@@mattholland315 Okay, I might have to do a video showing the room responses of all our models. We use the room responses measurement to dial in our servo subs.
@@dannyrichie9743 this would be great! Take your objective based designs to the next level. You could then back design decisions up even further and bring in the research done by the master, Floyd Toole regarding target curves, etc. Oh, and fair play doing this follow up video. I know you got some serious flack over on a certain forum regarding the original video. My suggestion is to request people send both speakers in so you at least have a comparison sample to reduce the chance of receiving a rogue faulty sample.
X-Statiks in the shop. Hmmm... Did Amir maybe trigger a second look--to check if "The crossover creates a resonant circuit with the speaker impedance " ? Can't wait for Danny to comment. I have owned a pair along with the X-Voce for 3 years. All with factory crossovers. Cap upgrades including Myflex bypass caps. Love them. They truly disappear, with magical soundstage and imaging. My own REW curves do agree somewhat with Mr. Amir's measurements although I do not share his listening impressions. I am hoping for a retrofit to make them even better.
indeed it was triggered by Amirs knife job on the 16 year old X-VOCE unit (I was ready to pull the trigger on buying the kit till I saw that, but checking in with Danny and Hobbs, they were re-looking at the VOCE and STATIK bec Danny said the tweeter material had been changed so they were just confirmung things are still good. The VOCE has been tweaked a little and that's what I'll be getting. I started a post on the Audio circle forum about the VOCE. And as Danny said there the Kit never came with the metal grill... that was the AV123 made in China. I'll probably make an MDF frame and cover with acoustically transparent fabric and use Neodynium magnets glued into the corners to hold it down. I'll also power it with two channels of a four channel amp Linn Akurate 4200 which is currently driving the Linn AV5120 centre in active mode, so I'll split the VOCE crossover into the outer bass drivers for one amp channel and the inner woofers + twtr on the other amp channel and use two sets of tube connectors. Any changes to the crossovers you could get from Danny
@@stephenyoud6125 I've assembled my own 2.5way sealed, using Scan Speak drivers and Audiomatica, long time ago. Hardy impressed by budget offerings since then tbh.
These have been sitting around here for months just waiting for me to get a chance to build them out. These and an X-Voce are going in my personal theater room. Amir is pretty much fake news. You have to keep in mind that he has an agenda. There was no resonance issue with the X-Voce. He was seeing a resonance of the rear grill that came on the AV123 production models.
I Had a pair of concert 8s 20years ago , female vocals were particularly difficult to listen to , which corresponds very well with the peak you found in the response of the tweeter .I traded them for the concert 11s which seemed to be smoother .Its a pity because in many ways it was a good speaker that reviewed extremely well at the time in the UK HiFi World magazine .
@@firecloud77 well incase your not trolling it’s Ron from “New Record Day” fantastic channel if you some how have missed it. He is also the editor for all of Danny’s videos and helped most of us get introduced to Danny and GR Research through his videos. Thanks Ron!
I doubt it. Some of the features and abilities that you guys think are super cool and accurate take way to long. Imagine buying a scanner to read the error codes on your cars computer that takes five hours to produce a result. That would be a pretty unusable tool.
@@RennieAsh until the spiders fail completely, you'll be fine. Vas will go up ....but fs will go down...acoustically not likely a problem on a sub where hearing is less critical and room acoustics swamp most other factors. After 20 years...its too late to protect your subs spider. If you do it again....yeah fiberglass is good acoustically...but I would AT LEAST bag the drivers with cheesecloth...or use glass only far from driver, covered with polyfill. I have little experience with no res...but from the sample i have.....I think it might be the best option.
@@think2023You are confusing panel resonances with air column ones, fibreglass does the fill, or deals with the former, no res damps the cabinet panels resonances somewhat, if the cabinet is poorly made.. And no, fibreglass is inert af, unless you manage to stuff lots of it into the magnet vent.
@@paulb4661 Nope, though nores has a damping layer for panel resonance it also has a thick foam layer that does same thing as polyfill, wool etc. Fiberglass is....well glass fibers. Yes, chemically inert, but just as fine shards in your skin are an irritant, those shards act as an abrasive, like tiny glass knives. The more the cone moves, the more it degrades the spider. Yes...in many applications the damage will not be readily apparent during the normal lifetime of the speaker....but damage IS being done!
The binding post also is steel. I sanded off the outer layer with a file and the white steel below gold plating. Also the connection on the filter board between posts and the nuts is also steel.
I really do not get the logic in why steel is so bad for very short lengths, it makes no good scientific sense anyway, respect a lot of what this guy says, but I will be a disbeliever until proven.
@@engjds I interpret the logic thusly; it's a hit to the signal transfer and is best avoided ... it's that simple. The work's done in the field, when that field has to negotiate thru high mass magnetize-able terminations, it's just not the ideal approach. Such materials in the signal path are deleterious ... any magnetize-able element charges, magnetized, then discharges it's magnetic state. It elicits a negative effect best avoided.
@@FOH3663 How big a hit it takes is important, these speakers for example, have a 3R 10% series resistor in the crossover to the tweeter (approx), now that 10% tolerance is a much higher variation than a tiny bit of steel in the signal chain by a magnitude of order (uR vs 100's of mR). Nope I cannot see how anyone could perceive such differences, impossible. The speaker manufacturers know it too, thats why they 'skimp' in this area, Jamo has actually made a good speaker with this one, for him to describe the units as 'pretty good' is a disservice to Seas engineering, those cabinets are about acoustically brilliant as you can buy. Yeah the crossover is arguably tuned too high, but reviewers loved the sound-using it as a reference, so who are we to say.
@@engjds Each individual determines relative practicality ... (with infinitely varying responses). I primarily responded to the assertion that it doesn't make scientific sense, ... pointing out it does makes scientific sense. "𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘨𝘢𝘪𝘯", a longtime axiom as the theoretical ideal in pursuit of hi-fi. Blend 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 theoretical approach, ... to one of avoidance of sources of non-linearities, ultimately resulting in higher performance and an elevated experience. But you're absolutely right ... mfrs addressing of each corruptive element in the signal path isn't for everyone.
Stupid question amnesty; if electrical signals do not travel within the conductor, but rather over the surface; why is gold plated worse than copper? Especially since copper oxidizes like a champ.
@@obijuan8466 Gold plating is done to protect the base metal from oxidation. The gold is not there for conductivity. Gold is not high on the list of conductive metals. What you don't want, more than anything, is the use of ferrous metals.
@@bryedefrom my experience using gated measurements is not accurate below 5, 600 Hz. In my speaker with active crossover I thought that is bright under 400 Hz, and brought it down. Obviously, measurements were not accurate and speaker sounded terrible in voice region. From now on I will not take in account anything under 400 as accurate with gated measurements
Just finished my RP-8000F upgrade from GR. I am a believer now!
Good for you. How are the results?
@bernardlouis4629 The highs are pleasantly pulled down just a tad and there is certainly more clarity overall for a crisp and detailed sound. The increased presence with improved mids from a change to a 2.5 way configuration is very welcome and probably the best change in my opinion. Warm guitars from the likes of The Sheepdogs really come to life. As does brass, and as a fan of horns of all types in music, they sound awesome now. Finally, the reason I opted to upgrade my Klipsch for $650 instead of buying $4k Dali Opticon 8s was because of the lively, dynamic style of the Klipsch and how it digs pretty deep without subs. So how was the bass affected? With NoRez fully lining the walls, the cabinet is far more inert than before. Bass seems to me not as deep now by a few hertz, but it is far more precise and clean. I think the boominess of the cabinet was giving the impression of more bass, but it was "dirty bass"(?). Again, I am a believer now and would highly encourage 8000F owners to do this. The speakers just aren't the same speaker after the upgrade. It is well worth the time and effort. I am going to REW them and compare the plots to before the upgrade but I think this may be a matter of "measurements are only part of the story". My speakers measured beautifully flat at MLP before so I am very interested to see the new plots.
@@stephenyoud6125 See my reply to Bernard below.
His mind is blown and he is in HiFi heaven! His equipment is rivaling Wilson audio and magico now!
@@harisjaved1379 Pssshh. Wilson Audio can't come close to the puppies now! Joking, obviously. They really do sound great for a set of sub $1500 speakers ($900 USD used + upgrade).
You nailed the pronunciation of SEAS, it's like you said it, best regards from a Norwegian.
You pronounce seas pretty close to what a Norwegian would do.
😅😅 not difficult for 4 letters😅😅
@@thomasschafer7268 Obviously it can be for some people. But he did pronounce it fairly ok
I pronounce most things like the Swedish chef on the Muppets 😂 sometimes in Japanese 80s movie style , because I'm funny like that .
So. If you base your upgrade kits on a single speaker measurement, isn't there a high risk of your other kits to not be correct because of age and wear on your singular tested speaker? This Jamo speaker surely isn't the only one which degrade over time but it's the only one I've seen where you do a revisit.
I have wondered about this as well.
Typically any variation or drift from normal is due to the ageing of capacitors especially electrolytic caps. The other is the deterioration of foam surrounds in woofers. Ferro fluid in tweeters can also get out of spec. So all of those things have to be considered, but for the most part I find older drivers to still be within a reasonable and average tolerance of each other.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you for answering. I'm curious to how you go about verifying that there is not degradation due to the ageing of your tested speaker as it is the direct and only baseline for your upgrade kits?
@@mrpeterfromgodknowswhere Sometimes we can find original measurements of the drivers or independent measurements from reviews.
haha I got pair of concert 11, 2 pairs of concert 8, an jamo d8cen pair og jamo d8sur and a jamo thx d6sub. hello from jamo's birth town glyngøre, currently working with some of the acoustic engineers, and some of the old workers from jamo. I have no complains about mine, they wasn't any wiser back in the days remember the speaker is from around 1997, 27 years old.
I wish someone would send you Concert11 (I think it's D870). I have a pair but live in the UK. Love the speakers but I'm sure there is a room for improvement.
If I was loaded I would be interested to try this for a fun experiment, unfortunately that would cost 500$ for shipping there and back, and then probably 500-800$ for a 3-way crossover depending on how many parts Danny thinks it needs. Not gonna spend over 1000$ to try out a different crossover design that may not sound as good 20-30deg off axis. I don’t have a dedicated listening room, so my stereo system pulls double duty as my HT mains, so off axis performance is important to me. Especially considering that these speakers sound absolutely amazing in my setup already.
@@MechAdv They sound great in my system too, driven by Musical Fidelity A1001, but I thought if they could be improved...
@@dusantomic9983 Yeah, chasing that dragon of “but what if I’d could sound EVEN better!?” will devastate your wallet and seldom satisfy. Everything becomes a trade off when you already have good gear and speakers. I’ve tried better DACs and Amps over the past few years whenever some new product gets hype, but always return them in the window after A/Bing with my trusty Cambridge AXR100 for a few weeks. Some have sounded a bit better, others worse, but none have justified their cost compared to my “budget” integrated amp.
Help Me Danny. PLEASE?? I took out the Seas Woofers and replaced the gasket material. Now its managed to glue itself in and i cant remove them. How do i do it without ruining them. Ive tried everything
When we get to a point of pointing out lack of zip ties......we all know we have a winner of a speaker. The reason these sold for $2,500 20 years ago (approx. $3,800 today) is because they are SPECTACULAR. They blow mw away every time i turn my system on and make me look forward to my listening time. End Game. Aint broke, no fixin. Ty
....you are more competent than Dynaudio, Seas, Scan Speak, Sonus Faber, ....simply everyone at the end. You modify everything.
This is crazy!
...but why aren't you employed there at one of such top companies?
You do some good research but....
Please, I would like to ask you to stay more at reality.
Hello Danny, i have now opened up both my concert 11, concert 8 and my concert center. I do not see any discoloration on my internal cables, however I opened one of my concert 8 sets and I can see on the driver that it had some white powder like corrosion on it and that might be from the guy I bought that pair from being a heavy e-vaper 💨.
I have a theory maybe the US market got lesser quality speakers ? maybe the cables couldn't handle getting shipped over seas ? mine are totally clean on every speaker with original cables highly shine copper cable not even close to turning brown ?
Very good and as expected. I see you’re working on the X-Statik’s in the background there
Ah, intriguing... very excited to see what comes of that.
Yeah, I have had a matching pair of X-Statik's and an X-Voce sitting around in here for assembly. They will be my personal pair for my theater room. I am finally getting them done.
I receiced my kit but no instructions on the circuit. Also i cannot figure out how to install the tube connectors. The kit has been sitting for mo ths because im not getting the time to contact gr research. 😔
Please someone in the US: send a pair of Jamo Concert 11/D870's to Danny.
I just bought on the market place the Jamo concert 11 , the floorstanders for this model, I paid $50 dollars, they sound amazing !!!
What a bargain! Congratulations! I bought my Jamo D870 (previous name Concert 11) as new in 1998 and I still have them in my living room. Very good High End speakers.
It's not poly cone- they use magnesium for this. They also have a graphene treated magnesium and the cone looks about the same. Btw. you should include the graphs with
Had these beautiful speakers since 2002. Just had the new owner come collect them this weekend gone.
It was very difficult to let them go but I'd rather have some listen to them over them sitting in the spare room. 😢
That is the right way of saying SEAS.
I've always said it as in salt water.
i would enjoy a compression horn driver diy kit from you all.
Major tone change between this upgrade/review, and the last one. What was wrong with the speakers the first time? Was it dried up ferrofluid or burned up voice coils? That would be helpful information for anyone considering buying a pair of these secondhand.
Your measurements this time definitely look like they correspond with the subjective listening reviews that you can read online still for these speakers. Supposedly very bright in the upper vocal range and with stringed instruments. One review indicated that one of the major differences between the bookshelf speaker and its big brother was the quality of the crossover net work and that was a sacrifice that they had to make to sell them for half the price of the tower speakers.
The response of the tweeter in the first one that I was sent was off. I really can't check the ferro fluid without taking the tweeter apart, which I did not do, and they have already been returned to the customer.
The frequency response starts from 200hz. How does it look below 200hz?
Fine.
The woofer is not poly. It IS magensium.
Re applying glue to the suspension of the woofers of my Concert 11, I managed to scratch the cone a bit and the shiny metal can be seen under the coat. Confirmednits not a poly cone.
Yep very review and spec sheet I've seen on this model says its a magnesium.
Chinesium 😂
It could be, but it is not at all like the typical Aluminum/Magnesium used in the standard production models. The standard models also have a LOT more ringing in the break up area up top.
@@dannyrichie9743 good evening Danny , I have owned a bunch over the decades , Eton and other brands , I could never understand the metal cones . I am very interested in your 3 inch wide band driver , I have some n.o.s. peerless made in Denmark not China, 6.5 inch mid bass drivers , I have stock spec sheets and was wondering of I could email you the spec sheets and see if there is a problem with matching the two as far as spl1w1m specs .
Seas Excel is just about about right! Exactly how it is pronounced in Norwegian, and I’m from Norway. (Seas is made in Norway)
I watched your video on the Kef 150's...good job...have you ever done the Kef Q350's ?...i like them but very cheesy 1st order x-overs just like the Q150's...do you do a kit for the Q350's or would you know of an upgraded x-over schematic for them please? as very interested to get the best out of them...they could do with Tube Connectors, quality internal wire & some No-Reź to damp the cabinets...if not would the Q150 kit be useable with the Q350's ?...thank you....
Hey Danny! I saw your Tyler Acoustics videos. I just picked up an older pair of Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors. Did you do work on those too? Seas Excel midwoofers and ScanSpeak Revelator tweeters. Just wondering. Thanks.
"Aluminum" versus "Aluminium" is NOT a pronunciation thing, it is a spelling thing. I didn't know that any of American said Aluminium, I thought they all said Aluminum.
I have a '97 Issue of german hifi magazine "Audio", where they tested the Concert 8. I can confirm, their measurements look pretty identical to this one.
I just say s.e.a.s.
I bought a pair, then had a peak inside and discovered the rear side of both speakers had oxidisation exposing the yellow layer underneath, as these are custom drivers, and seas stopped producing the W17's, its impossible to get the W17Jam any more and only 2nd hand W17's, problem is they are 8R not 6R.
Sound wise, with my old ears they sound great, bit forward in the highs (but they say thats normal on forums), as the forums suggested and you found, lower tweeter crossover suggested-so good you confirmed that.
Those with corroded cones, you can slow the oxidisation process down by smearing a thin layer of natural wax, but not sure what the mass difference would do to the sound.
I will probably get some 2nd hand W17's at some time, and try and adjust the crossover to work with the new 8R driver.
Now a question, how would you expect the sound to change as the driver rear corrodes, assuming cone breakup is not effected and its just the cone mass getting lighter?
I work in Moss in Norway, almost everyday I have on way SEAS fabric :)
I got two pair of Concert 8
Thank you for this deep dive on the Concert 8. 2 questions, 1- I have never done any DIY speaker work, and the thought of dismantling my cherished original Pair makes me nervous, can a layperson succesfully complete this upgrade? 2- I have mine bi amped, let me know cost for extra pair of spade connectors. Had no idea about the steel in these things and its deleterious effects.
Heck of a shirt!
That's a great outcome for owners of this speaker. A no brainer upgrade.
Nicely done. About the ”trade off”, this change is going from a dip on axis at 3kHz but flat power response to a peak at 3kHz in the power response. I’m not sure the latter is preferred. In a normal room the dip in axis would sound more neutral, natural and less harsh with the baby screams.
Agree. I’ve noticed a lot of Danny’s upgrade have this off-axis peak. Danny alludes to it being a baffle diffraction effect which does seem to make sense with the wavelengths involved. I guess this is the downside of a non-waveguide tweeter - you need to cross them higher to avoid this. Quite a balancing act.
If Danny used more powerful measurement tools he could measure the predicted in-room response of his designs which would correlate much more closely to what listers hear in typical rooms.
@@mattholland315 Better yet, I actually measure the in room responses. So I know very well what the off axis does to the "power response".
@@dannyrichie9743 please show us the power response in your videos. It would be good to see if all the great work you do achieving a flat on-axis response is beneficial. You mention the 3KHz peak could be audible due to side wall reflections in some listening rooms. Maybe this would retain some of the original character of the factory sound?
@@mattholland315 Okay, I might have to do a video showing the room responses of all our models. We use the room responses measurement to dial in our servo subs.
@@dannyrichie9743 this would be great! Take your objective based designs to the next level. You could then back design decisions up even further and bring in the research done by the master, Floyd Toole regarding target curves, etc.
Oh, and fair play doing this follow up video. I know you got some serious flack over on a certain forum regarding the original video. My suggestion is to request people send both speakers in so you at least have a comparison sample to reduce the chance of receiving a rogue faulty sample.
Hey Danny do you have a facebook page? Juste want to make shure 🤷♂️
Hey Danny, would I be able to email you? I have some questions about a pair of BP-20's
Sure.
X-Statiks in the shop. Hmmm... Did Amir maybe trigger a second look--to check if "The crossover creates a resonant circuit with the speaker impedance " ? Can't wait for Danny to comment. I have owned a pair along with the X-Voce for 3 years. All with factory crossovers. Cap upgrades including Myflex bypass caps. Love them. They truly disappear, with magical soundstage and imaging. My own REW curves do agree somewhat with Mr. Amir's measurements although I do not share his listening impressions. I am hoping for a retrofit to make them even better.
Amir is busy, just published an article on his methdology for testing DACs with Audio Engineering Society.
indeed it was triggered by Amirs knife job on the 16 year old X-VOCE unit (I was ready to pull the trigger on buying the kit till I saw that, but checking in with Danny and Hobbs, they were re-looking at the VOCE and STATIK bec Danny said the tweeter material had been changed so they were just confirmung things are still good. The VOCE has been tweaked a little and that's what I'll be getting. I started a post on the Audio circle forum about the VOCE. And as Danny said there the Kit never came with the metal grill... that was the AV123 made in China. I'll probably make an MDF frame and cover with acoustically transparent fabric and use Neodynium magnets glued into the corners to hold it down. I'll also power it with two channels of a four channel amp Linn Akurate 4200 which is currently driving the Linn AV5120 centre in active mode, so I'll split the VOCE crossover into the outer bass drivers for one amp channel and the inner woofers + twtr on the other amp channel and use two sets of tube connectors. Any changes to the crossovers you could get from Danny
@@stephenyoud6125 I've assembled my own 2.5way sealed, using Scan Speak drivers and Audiomatica, long time ago. Hardy impressed by budget offerings since then tbh.
These have been sitting around here for months just waiting for me to get a chance to build them out. These and an X-Voce are going in my personal theater room. Amir is pretty much fake news. You have to keep in mind that he has an agenda.
There was no resonance issue with the X-Voce. He was seeing a resonance of the rear grill that came on the AV123 production models.
amir has a crush on danny.😂😂 @@dannyrichie9743
I Had a pair of concert 8s 20years ago , female vocals were particularly difficult to listen to , which corresponds very well with the peak you found in the response of the tweeter .I traded them for the concert 11s which seemed to be smoother .Its a pity because in many ways it was a good speaker that reviewed extremely well at the time in the UK HiFi World magazine .
You needed a subwoofer tuned really low, it gives it better balance, I find voices the main star with that setup.
it needs a meaty tube amp to sound glorious
New GR speakers behind you?
It's a pair of X-Statik's.
Are Jamo Concert 8 and Concert 830 100% identical ?
I believe they are.
Yes
I left Ron to come here. first! 🔈👍🏻
I left Ron to come here. Second! 🔈 👍
@@Newrecordday2013 lol! Right on, I will see you when this one is done 👋
I have no idea who Ron is.
@@firecloud77 he’s just a guy who makes up words and has a camera.
@@firecloud77 well incase your not trolling it’s Ron from “New Record Day” fantastic channel if you some how have missed it. He is also the editor for all of Danny’s videos and helped most of us get introduced to Danny and GR Research through his videos. Thanks Ron!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from one Danny to another. Cheers!
Danny, could you see yourself possibly trying a Klippel someday?
I doubt it. Some of the features and abilities that you guys think are super cool and accurate take way to long. Imagine buying a scanner to read the error codes on your cars computer that takes five hours to produce a result. That would be a pretty unusable tool.
If you've got one tweeter with full output, one that's down a little and one that's down a lot, are we looking at different stages of failure?
We measure tolerance differences in drivers like that all the time, even when they are new. So, that was not a big surprise.
Fiberglass?
Over time will degrade the spider.
Interesting. I have some 20 year old subs with fibreglass in them. They still seem alright to me
@@RennieAsh until the spiders fail completely, you'll be fine.
Vas will go up ....but fs will go down...acoustically not likely a problem on a sub where hearing is less critical and room acoustics swamp most other factors.
After 20 years...its too late to protect your subs spider.
If you do it again....yeah fiberglass is good acoustically...but I would AT LEAST bag the drivers with cheesecloth...or use glass only far from driver, covered with polyfill.
I have little experience with no res...but from the sample i have.....I think it might be the best option.
@@think2023You are confusing panel resonances with air column ones, fibreglass does the fill, or deals with the former, no res damps the cabinet panels resonances somewhat, if the cabinet is poorly made.. And no, fibreglass is inert af, unless you manage to stuff lots of it into the magnet vent.
@@paulb4661 Nope, though nores has a damping layer for panel resonance it also has a thick foam layer that does same thing as polyfill, wool etc.
Fiberglass is....well glass fibers. Yes, chemically inert, but just as fine shards in your skin are an irritant, those shards act as an abrasive, like tiny glass knives.
The more the cone moves, the more it degrades the spider.
Yes...in many applications the damage will not be readily apparent during the normal lifetime of the speaker....but damage IS being done!
@@paulb4661 and no...fiberglass will not be effective damping panel resonances
The binding post also is steel. I sanded off the outer layer with a file and the white steel below gold plating. Also the connection on the filter board between posts and the nuts is also steel.
I really do not get the logic in why steel is so bad for very short lengths, it makes no good scientific sense anyway, respect a lot of what this guy says, but I will be a disbeliever until proven.
@@engjds
I interpret the logic thusly;
it's a hit to the signal transfer and is best avoided ... it's that simple.
The work's done in the field, when that field has to negotiate thru high mass magnetize-able terminations, it's just not the ideal approach.
Such materials in the signal path are deleterious ... any magnetize-able element charges, magnetized, then discharges it's magnetic state.
It elicits a negative effect best avoided.
@@FOH3663 How big a hit it takes is important, these speakers for example, have a 3R 10% series resistor in the crossover to the tweeter (approx), now that 10% tolerance is a much higher variation than a tiny bit of steel in the signal chain by a magnitude of order (uR vs 100's of mR). Nope I cannot see how anyone could perceive such differences, impossible.
The speaker manufacturers know it too, thats why they 'skimp' in this area, Jamo has actually made a good speaker with this one, for him to describe the units as 'pretty good' is a disservice to Seas engineering, those cabinets are about acoustically brilliant as you can buy. Yeah the crossover is arguably tuned too high, but reviewers loved the sound-using it as a reference, so who are we to say.
@@engjds
Each individual determines relative practicality ... (with infinitely varying responses).
I primarily responded to the assertion that it doesn't make scientific sense, ... pointing out it does makes scientific sense.
"𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘨𝘢𝘪𝘯", a longtime axiom as the theoretical ideal in pursuit of hi-fi.
Blend 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 theoretical approach, ... to one of avoidance of sources of non-linearities, ultimately resulting in higher performance and an elevated experience.
But you're absolutely right ... mfrs addressing of each corruptive element in the signal path isn't for everyone.
@@FOH3663 Blah blah, but fact is, if you cannot measure it, you cannot hear it.
Let me guess, the original design aim for high spl..
Somebody please send Danny some Concert VII 's. I can't send them from here in Aus lol.
Drag racin eh? Right on!
Bradman nats is where it's at!
Stupid question amnesty; if electrical signals do not travel within the conductor, but rather over the surface; why is gold plated worse than copper? Especially since copper oxidizes like a champ.
It is not just about the plating.
@@dannyrichie9743 AAaaannd??? I'm not an electrical engineer obviously. So would you be interested in helping cure some of my ignorance?
@@obijuan8466 are you asking for education thru TH-cam comment section?
@@sudd3660why not. People try to give it through talking in a TH-cam video.
@@obijuan8466 Gold plating is done to protect the base metal from oxidation. The gold is not there for conductivity. Gold is not high on the list of conductive metals.
What you don't want, more than anything, is the use of ferrous metals.
Is 200hz low enough when checking out the specs? I would think 80hz or even 60hz to see proper roll off but that maybe I’m missing something
Yes, it is low enough. The lower end is easy to predict and check with an impedance response.
It's just that simple measuring techniques don't work well below 200 or so, so you have to decide if it's worth going the extra mile to get that data.
@@bryedefrom my experience using gated measurements is not accurate below 5, 600 Hz. In my speaker with active crossover I thought that is bright under 400 Hz, and brought it down. Obviously, measurements were not accurate and speaker sounded terrible in voice region. From now on I will not take in account anything under 400 as accurate with gated measurements
When it comes to lower range measurements, we see them in a room response measurement and we can see the low end roll off in a nearfield measurement.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks
4th!
Uninteressant für Europa. 600€/Paar. Gebraucht.
Die Weiche oder die Boxen?