This was great! As a newbie who just brought my very expensive Cams I’m terrified of getting them stuck!!! ……”if I find you yankin on my cable!!!!” 😂😂😂
Back in the day. A very long time ago. The original cams had hex key inserts in the axle ends. It was possible to dismantle your cam completely. I was told of people who did this with two long Allen keys to get overcammed cams out. Quite right the company changed to a sealed unit as you needed to make sure you put it back together correctly.
@@stevenstrangeways ah well fair enough but I'm sure I remember this. I do have a mate with some ancient gear so maybe I'll find something from him that proves it.
Just wanted to mention another issue with walking cams is that in a vertical crack like the one you made here your cam can just straight up fall out of the crack. Not what you want to look down and see while leading haha
There is no more special feeling than looking down and seeing your shit placement sliding down the rope! My ten foot fall just turned into a forty foot whipper....
Some nut keys come with a double hook at the other end. I had one in the early 90s made by Wild Country, but I think Simond still make something similar. EDIT: oh.. and my first ever cam (rigid stem friend) I "won" by being able to extract it when someone else had abandoned it, so the extractors work
years ago I was going up The Rib on Mt. Tammany, and saw a #3 black diamond cam stuck so hard the lobes had actually crushed, like someone fell on it and the dam thing melted into the rock. I really want to know the story behind how that happened.
@@BetaClimbers Yeah I have no idea. It was there for years, and then someone managed to dig it out. No idea how they did that though. I don't think any of these methods would've done the trick in that particular case.
@@stuff2climb102 there was a WideBoyz video where something like this happened and they felt it was thermal expansion of a huge amount of rock in an offwifth crack.
@@stuff2climb102 My son tells me it was part of the Pete Whittaker's live tour so it's not a video unless he puts it on the WideBoyz channel after he's finished with his tour. If I do see him mention it I'll pop it back here.
inspect it first. If it looks bomber I use it. If it's really rusty though, maybe back it up. All depends on the situation. There's a red z4 that's been stuck on a 5.9 at the Water Gap for over a year now that we still use.
So, that's nice to know... How do you do this with Tricams most effectively? They have no bolts or holes to stick tools in and I almost lost a big one once as I couldn't get it out a crack. They're just geniously formed slabs of hardened aluminium...
@@BetaClimbers thanks, Josh! I will try that in a crack where I'm Shure to get it out again anyways. ;-) Mine wandered deeper in and then downwards where it went from the active blocking position in the passive nut position and was stuck there, there's only the option of reversing its path then but I didn't know exactly how it got there and had to figure that out first while the sun went down...
Good advice on having the wide stance on the bottom of the placement. I never heard that. Am I correct to presume that you would want the wider stance facing away from the rock on a vertical crack? Nice retrieval tips. I have not lost a cam yet but I have stuck some nuts real hard and deep....the nut tool is worth its weight in gold. Maybe I will start carrying two for the sucker who leaves the booty!
It can be very situational, that crack may only allow one way or the other. Takes a little experience and skill I guess. Thanks for the comment. 🤙🏻 with vertical I would just say it more important to place it at 45 degree or in direction of load. If it’s the first cam there can be two directions of load on it because of the belayer but that’s another story.
@@BetaClimbers Thanks, man. The first piece is always sketchy. I just try not to fall until I have at least three in! I do often use an Edelrid OHM device for weight differentials - that means that first piece has to be bomber and directional; the loading of the OHM will pull the piece upward. Actually, it yanks the hell out of it upwards!
@@BetaClimbers I will be doing a sport climb review of it next week. They do not suck at all. Takes about 70 lbs of heat off of the climber during a fall. They do twist the rope a bit and make lowering real slow.
Since climbing hazard are important and need fact checking, I would be curious to see some references on the thermal expension theory. I've never heard anything about it and the thermal expension is so marginal on granite that I don't see who it could stuck your placement. Thank
The only references I have is personal and from the experience of some fellow climbers but I will look into if some one has some concrete data on the subject. You could be right some rock types might expand more than others.
Hey thanks for you’re comment. As a civil engineer and a granite trad climber for manny years, I find this situation very unlikely. The volume of rock you would need to have an effect would be very huge and without any cracks execpt the one you are climbing. With a very big thermic differential (multple hours between leader and follower) and thug up passive pros or pitons. In this case, it MAY have an effect (less than a mm). With a cam spring, it is more likely that your cam walk and got stuck. Regarding the concrete evidence, there is not a lot of simularities with rock. The expension in a rock follows the break’s line and in concrete it goes in all directions and it is also affected by rebar. I could be wrong, I would love to see a study on that matter if you find one Josh. Whatever the awnser, if you respect the range of oppening of your camming device, you’ll never have to deal with thermal expension. Sorry for the english quality ✌️
What do you do if hypothetically your dad overcams the shit out of one of your cams and you cant get it to budge no matter what. And hypothetically it isnt even deep in the crack
So basically, Use the nut tool on the handles, use the nut tool on the head, use a sling around the handles and a tool on the head... Basically a one minute video stretched out. So long to say so little. Love your vids but please keep it concise.
@Burner Burn I do make videos just not on this topic. It's not entitlement to point out that a content creator could say the same thing in less time and in a more clear way. That's called feedback.
"Help me, stepclimber! I'm stuck!"
"Stepclimber, what are you doing!?"
No.
... actually
one man's mistake is another man's rack. great topic and video!
This was great! As a newbie who just brought my very expensive Cams I’m terrified of getting them stuck!!!
……”if I find you yankin on my cable!!!!” 😂😂😂
Oh my days that sling manoeuvre is genius! I would have never thought to have done this and I've been removing cams for a long time now! Cheers man
Found me an abandoned cam on a route once. Got it out with me trusty trad tool. The End
I love a happy ending
Back in the day. A very long time ago. The original cams had hex key inserts in the axle ends. It was possible to dismantle your cam completely. I was told of people who did this with two long Allen keys to get overcammed cams out. Quite right the company changed to a sealed unit as you needed to make sure you put it back together correctly.
thats fascinating. thank you for sharing!
I call BS. No photo...isn't real.
@@stevenstrangeways ah well fair enough but I'm sure I remember this. I do have a mate with some ancient gear so maybe I'll find something from him that proves it.
You forgot the best method... The Golden Crowbar.
For real, though, pouring some water on a stuck cam is sometimes enough to get it to start budging.
mountaineers stream always runs clear
Just wanted to mention another issue with walking cams is that in a vertical crack like the one you made here your cam can just straight up fall out of the crack. Not what you want to look down and see while leading haha
There is no more special feeling than looking down and seeing your shit placement sliding down the rope!
My ten foot fall just turned into a forty foot whipper....
I found a stuck .5 the other day. That guy was part of the rock. Could reach the lobes, he was beyond stuck.
my favorite is when you find a brand new abandoned cam on a 5.3, and it pops out no problem.
Some nut keys come with a double hook at the other end. I had one in the early 90s made by Wild Country, but I think Simond still make something similar. EDIT: oh.. and my first ever cam (rigid stem friend) I "won" by being able to extract it when someone else had abandoned it, so the extractors work
years ago I was going up The Rib on Mt. Tammany, and saw a #3 black diamond cam stuck so hard the lobes had actually crushed, like someone fell on it and the dam thing melted into the rock. I really want to know the story behind how that happened.
Damn could have been a whipper then maybe the weather crushed it over time. 🤷🏻♂️ There are a few melting in nuts in the trapps I can remember. Lol 😂
@@BetaClimbers Yeah I have no idea. It was there for years, and then someone managed to dig it out. No idea how they did that though. I don't think any of these methods would've done the trick in that particular case.
@@stuff2climb102 there was a WideBoyz video where something like this happened and they felt it was thermal expansion of a huge amount of rock in an offwifth crack.
@@markmagas1982 really? that could be it. Do you know the link for the video by any chance?
@@stuff2climb102 My son tells me it was part of the Pete Whittaker's live tour so it's not a video unless he puts it on the WideBoyz channel after he's finished with his tour. If I do see him mention it I'll pop it back here.
In the early '80's my #3 Friend didn't walk inside a beautiful horizontal Zion crack, it went on a marathon run. I wonder if it's still there.
Is it save to use abandoned cams to protect your climbing? For example if I find a cam stuck in the rock should I put a quickdraw and use it?
inspect it first. If it looks bomber I use it. If it's really rusty though, maybe back it up. All depends on the situation. There's a red z4 that's been stuck on a 5.9 at the Water Gap for over a year now that we still use.
Just fall test it with a heavy backpack if you're not sure
So, that's nice to know... How do you do this with Tricams most effectively?
They have no bolts or holes to stick tools in and I almost lost a big one once as I couldn't get it out a crack. They're just geniously formed slabs of hardened aluminium...
With tri cams I first use the nut tool to un cam it by pushing the top back in. I then hook the nose and drag out
@@BetaClimbers thanks, Josh! I will try that in a crack where I'm Shure to get it out again anyways. ;-)
Mine wandered deeper in and then downwards where it went from the active blocking position in the passive nut position and was stuck there, there's only the option of reversing its path then but I didn't know exactly how it got there and had to figure that out first while the sun went down...
Guys just tell me where you left your stuck cams and I can go fish them out for you
Oh no step cam
You reference weeble wooble an call dem [cinder] blocks... you sound like my dad, vintage speak.
Good advice on having the wide stance on the bottom of the placement. I never heard that.
Am I correct to presume that you would want the wider stance facing away from the rock on a vertical crack?
Nice retrieval tips. I have not lost a cam yet but I have stuck some nuts real hard and deep....the nut tool is worth its weight in gold.
Maybe I will start carrying two for the sucker who leaves the booty!
It can be very situational, that crack may only allow one way or the other. Takes a little experience and skill I guess. Thanks for the comment. 🤙🏻 with vertical I would just say it more important to place it at 45 degree or in direction of load. If it’s the first cam there can be two directions of load on it because of the belayer but that’s another story.
@@BetaClimbers Thanks, man. The first piece is always sketchy. I just try not to fall until I have at least three in!
I do often use an Edelrid OHM device for weight differentials - that means that first piece has to be bomber and directional; the loading of the OHM will pull the piece upward. Actually, it yanks the hell out of it upwards!
@@ananda_miaoyin interesting never used one myself
@@BetaClimbers I will be doing a sport climb review of it next week. They do not suck at all. Takes about 70 lbs of heat off of the climber during a fall.
They do twist the rope a bit and make lowering real slow.
there may or may not be a yellow cam stuck in new Yellowstone at the junkyard
Gear lab says that wild country friends walk less than the c4's, has that been your experience as well?
Since climbing hazard are important and need fact checking, I would be curious to see some references on the thermal expension theory. I've never heard anything about it and the thermal expension is so marginal on granite that I don't see who it could stuck your placement. Thank
The only references I have is personal and from the experience of some fellow climbers but I will look into if some one has some concrete data on the subject. You could be right some rock types might expand more than others.
Hey thanks for you’re comment. As a civil engineer and a granite trad climber for manny years, I find this situation very unlikely. The volume of rock you would need to have an effect would be very huge and without any cracks execpt the one you are climbing. With a very big thermic differential (multple hours between leader and follower) and thug up passive pros or pitons. In this case, it MAY have an effect (less than a mm).
With a cam spring, it is more likely that your cam walk and got stuck.
Regarding the concrete evidence, there is not a lot of simularities with rock. The expension in a rock follows the break’s line and in concrete it goes in all directions and it is also affected by rebar.
I could be wrong, I would love to see a study on that matter if you find one Josh. Whatever the awnser, if you respect the range of oppening of your camming device, you’ll never have to deal with thermal expension.
Sorry for the english quality ✌️
Ohhhh and I forgot, to recover a piece or a booty piece! Add couple of liters of water in the cam. It will go out each time ahah
What do you do if hypothetically your dad overcams the shit out of one of your cams and you cant get it to budge no matter what. And hypothetically it isnt even deep in the crack
Dubious
I like to check my local crag for free gear booty whenever I can. Stay away from me treasure!! Yaaarg.
:D
smh
cannot believe u did another pointless demo
a solid stem old friend
atleast use only cams that are on the market
So basically,
Use the nut tool on the handles, use the nut tool on the head, use a sling around the handles and a tool on the head...
Basically a one minute video stretched out.
So long to say so little.
Love your vids but please keep it concise.
@Burner Burn I do make videos just not on this topic. It's not entitlement to point out that a content creator could say the same thing in less time and in a more clear way. That's called feedback.