Finding it funny a lot of the things I've found with foliage, alpha cut outs swapping to fully modeled & shadow limiting matches up. Should of just waited a day or 2 & watched this rather than finding it all myself. The lights & shadow maps information I suspected as much going off my screenshot of shadows in testing them out for lighting scenes, But did that for Film so never gave it a second though for games... That said You might need multiple spot lights so I'd have to test vs stretch point lights in those situations,
It's probably a commented discard somewhere in the shadow pass shaders. There's a lot of optimizations that can be done on unreal shaders that epic is kind of ignoring. At one point I commented a define related to binding UAVs in the shadow pass that was there just in case you enabled light propagation volumes. No visual difference (since we weren't using LPVs) but gained 0.5ms on the overall frame time.
@@chriszuko ya, in the material look for shadow pass switch. It's a material override for shadow rendering. There's also a nanite switch too so you can nest those if you still use traditional geo and namite at the same timr
It's just so unintuitive that having alpha mask is worse than having million more polygons lol.. why can't they just render the alphas as Nanite polygons too though?
"Alphas" are being rendered with Nanite since 5.1, the problem is, masked materials have to run an extra shader on top. At just a few hundred thousands triangles it starts to become a bottleneck. I did some testing with megascan trees at some point in 5.1 and while I had ~30ms with hardware rasterization, I was getting 130ms with nanite rasterization. Those have up to 300K/mesh and have wind effects as well, hence the "problem".
I really don't see how using nanite is better than having properly modeled geometry, especially since Unreal has LOD generation that works pretty well in most cases and saves tons of performance.
One of the advantages of Nanite is GPU culling. FYI I did an experiment on the City Sample and turned off nanite on all meshes AND made every mesh poly count equal to the fallback mesh. While everything was looking like crap since it looked like LOD2 where LOD0 should be, I was seeing 80-100ms spent on just CPU culling, with the biggest part coming from shadow culling.
Less draw calls, better performance with lumen and VSM, no need for normal maps, can get better performance than traditional geo depending on the scene.
@@drinkwwwaterrr I asked a similar question to my optimization professor after our lecture on LODs, his answer was “Nanite is just that good.” Funny how after a very in depth lecture covering Nanite and LODs, the simple answer is what hit me like a brick.
It's still dynamic, it just does a TON of caching, so the less lights and geometry moves the better. You can however use baked Lightmass GI and Lumen Reflection at the same time now.
I despise this presenter - Upscale looks like a crap - TAA is the worst - If you aim at 30fps, you’re doing something wrong - You don’t need these graphics, you need gameplay
Finding it funny a lot of the things I've found with foliage, alpha cut outs swapping to fully modeled & shadow limiting matches up. Should of just waited a day or 2 & watched this rather than finding it all myself. The lights & shadow maps information I suspected as much going off my screenshot of shadows in testing them out for lighting scenes, But did that for Film so never gave it a second though for games... That said You might need multiple spot lights so I'd have to test vs stretch point lights in those situations,
Alpha Testing off during shadow passes is interesting. I'd be interested in how this is done in the engine code if possible O.O
It's probably a commented discard somewhere in the shadow pass shaders. There's a lot of optimizations that can be done on unreal shaders that epic is kind of ignoring. At one point I commented a define related to binding UAVs in the shadow pass that was there just in case you enabled light propagation volumes. No visual difference (since we weren't using LPVs) but gained 0.5ms on the overall frame time.
Before doing the engine change I'd try the shader switch for shadow pass
@@AdamKiraly_3d This exists?
@@chriszuko ya, in the material look for shadow pass switch. It's a material override for shadow rendering. There's also a nanite switch too so you can nest those if you still use traditional geo and namite at the same timr
Mind you itll probably still cost some extra just because the material is masked even when using 1 opacity
"Thanks, we love Unreal too.
There are probably gamers who actually like motion blur and bloom. But it's the first thing I switch off.
I enjoy it in singleplayer games
Love me some bloom and don’t notice motion blur.
It's just so unintuitive that having alpha mask is worse than having million more polygons lol.. why can't they just render the alphas as Nanite polygons too though?
This is also my question
"Alphas" are being rendered with Nanite since 5.1, the problem is, masked materials have to run an extra shader on top. At just a few hundred thousands triangles it starts to become a bottleneck. I did some testing with megascan trees at some point in 5.1 and while I had ~30ms with hardware rasterization, I was getting 130ms with nanite rasterization. Those have up to 300K/mesh and have wind effects as well, hence the "problem".
❤❤❤
I really don't see how using nanite is better than having properly modeled geometry, especially since Unreal has LOD generation that works pretty well in most cases and saves tons of performance.
One of the advantages of Nanite is GPU culling. FYI I did an experiment on the City Sample and turned off nanite on all meshes AND made every mesh poly count equal to the fallback mesh. While everything was looking like crap since it looked like LOD2 where LOD0 should be, I was seeing 80-100ms spent on just CPU culling, with the biggest part coming from shadow culling.
@@ciprianstanciu7 Fair, though that environment was designed with Nanite in mind so turning it off would only worsen things.
Less draw calls, better performance with lumen and VSM, no need for normal maps, can get better performance than traditional geo depending on the scene.
@@drinkwwwaterrr I asked a similar question to my optimization professor after our lecture on LODs, his answer was “Nanite is just that good.” Funny how after a very in depth lecture covering Nanite and LODs, the simple answer is what hit me like a brick.
Interesting, can UE5's Lumen now handle static lighting?
A couple of years ago Lumen was dynamic only, so I wonder if there's something new here
Only in the sense that it won't do pre-computed light maps. It does do a decent job at global illumination.
It's still dynamic, it just does a TON of caching, so the less lights and geometry moves the better. You can however use baked Lightmass GI and Lumen Reflection at the same time now.
@@AdamKiraly_3d Thanks a lot, that makes a lot of sense!
Strands on console? 😂
I despise this presenter
- Upscale looks like a crap
- TAA is the worst
- If you aim at 30fps, you’re doing something wrong
- You don’t need these graphics, you need gameplay