I think people tend to miss the point of the LFR. The LFR is not intended to be an "assault" beltkit. I would classify something like the VS Jungle Rig as an "assault" belt kit. The LFR is interesting because its tailored specifically towards (what i would call) civilian activities. Its not for taking and holding ground, HS,LD raids, or multi-day firefights. Its meant to optimize the extended low-profile, on-foot mobility of small groups of people who don't have robust logistical, transportation, or support elements in place during a shtf/wrol situation. Something like "Hey, jim bob just called/radioed -- he saw some suspicious activity on his farm. Hopefully its nothing, but it could also be something, so im going to grab my LFR with 2-3 days worth of sustainment supplies and enough ammo to deal with any potential cattle rustlers/bandits, and walk/bike/ride/drive on over to help him and his son secure their property. Ideally im back before nightfall, but if im not ill be able to sustain myself for a realistic length of time."
You can do literally the same thing with a chest rig and daypack. Combining the two is unnecessary. If you need to hike to somewhere down the road in (scenario of your choice), then you may also want to drop pack when you get there. If he sees suspicious people, they leave, and he then needs help digging a latrine or prepping land for crops, you don’t need your jetboil and quilt on you to do that. You can leave your chest rig on and rifle slung so if bad guys come back, you can respond. But you can also reduce the weight on you and do other things with less burden. And small daypacks are slim enough and, if you pack the same way, light enough to just keep on if you need to break contact while you’re wearing it. The non buttpack jungle rigs and british kit seem to be the better versions of belt kit because you aren’t strapping third line gear onto your second line.
I've worked through the whole progression of belt to vest to chest to plate carrier systems. I think you are right that this LFR is best suited to a recon role. I do find that a belt system is a lot cooler in the summer months going for those long trips.
The British Army already solved this with their PLCE system which is a better LBE rig that provides padded lumbar support and pouches that don't bounce when you run. You can get them used, new or custom built from companies like Kitmonster, Dixie Corner or JayJays. The American stuff like the Mayflower jungle rig is way too expensive.
The British PLCE is an excellent design; the Mayflower/Velocity systems jungle rig can be setup like the PLCE, and has advantages in modularity/materials/weight/etc., and it does not absorb water. You determine the value. The biggest issue with the American M1956 gear (LBE) is the buttpack integration with ALICE ruck. The LBE works well with the P6x series Vietnam jungle rucks that wrap around the buttpack.
The Brit’s are the masters of belt kit and tabbing. I wore a set of OD PLCE while I was in the CF, it was like wearing a custom fitted set of webbing, which was instantly readjustable and actually comfortable while rucking. They make a platform like place for the bergen to rest on vs the American love of wearing a buttpack which forces the ruck into an extremely weird angle. Thus, my recommendation is that we are now post Afghanistan and most likely to get into a ground war with the Motherland. Hence fight as you train, train as you fight. Don’t be prepared for the parade ground.
I’ve been messing with the whole “LBE” thing off and no for like 15 years. I think the two systems just have a different focus. We have the current GWOT style focus or the move sustained frontline focus of the 40s-70s. I think once “big Marine Corps” isn’t supporting you, the LBE stuff starts looking better. It’s taken being out of the Marines (weapons Co machine gunner) for 5 years to come back to LBE stuff.
If you’re referring to a load bearing belt kit setup as LBE, then it makes things worse because you can’t really use a ruck. I can run a large ruck with a chest rig and gun belt if the gun belt is set up properly, and i can wear a good 3 day with armor and gun belt. All in all the LFR allows me to carry less. Even with using a standard belt kit type setup, you’re limiting yourself to your kit being on just your waistline vs chest and waistline. The 3 line system is superior.
First- three line is legit but He’s not saying either is bad- they’ve got different focuses. LBE type equipment has never been popular in vehicles in the Corps- certainly not as a turret gunner like I was. Outside of afghan I’d never rock a drop leg holster, cause it’s a shitty way to carry a pistol if you’re not driving Fuck yeah three line system but it’s different system for different focuses.
@@thelonghousepreparedness In the UK belt kit with a ruck is the standard. I think bergens/rucks here might be sized a bit differently to accommodate that, but it's absolutely viable - if you look up pictures of British troops in the Falklands you'll see them with rucks and belt kit.
Belt kits are great for warm, humid conditions, such as jungles. Part of the reason why the Brits still has the PLCE is because jungle fighting is still part of their basic training. This is where belt kits really shine. In hot and humid areas, a chest rig isn't going to allow your chest to dump out excess heat.
Thanks for the indepth overview of the lightfighter rig, i've been on the fence on getting this kit, I was thingking of using this as a fighting/survival line in cold weather. But, from the real esstate of the rig that you show in the video, i don't think it's feasible for my case. I will be sticking with my chest rig and pack for now.
Great Channel, just found you, subscribed. Viewpoint from a 35yr Army Spec Ops combat vet (Iraq/Afghan, Other) Panama, Jungle School. The Point of the Split Rig style (Velocity Jungle, Nixieworks) is primarily for Foot Jungle Patrolling long or short and Sniper Ops where will be in prone. The point is that chest rigs or anything covering chest and back will overheat you almost immediately in the jungle, and you CANNOT carry enough water to compensate for the amount of sweating. This is basically a modern Korea, Vietnam era uaed thru 70's 80's 90's LBE. For Snipers the ability to unbuckle and push the rig to left and right is obvious to go as prone as possible. While a Chest Rig CAN be worn, you'd have to carry more weight in water than Ammo. Again this would not be a primary choice for missions where your riding Heloing up to Objective to assault /raid on compounds, structures or vehicle ops. Its for longer Foot Patrolling in Hot Humid Environments where your not getting resupplied for awhile, if at all. So also like a SHTF grid down homestead community defense scenario. Like someone else mentioned, the GWOT days of in and out with 4 mags and a snickers bar are over then or in the Pacific island hopping. (If driving, you will obviously have to remove it. So if you are kitting out for Alaska, Canada, Redoubt it's probably not a priority purchase. If in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama central/south America, maybe more so.
Oh definitely. I think that there is a place for the larger belt rigs in general, mainly being like you said where you're either crawling long distances or in very hot or very cold environments where your body temp is a big concern. That being said, I personally don't think that the size of the nixieworks buttpack is very good, especially compared to offerings from Mayflower or Spiritus Systems. The buttpack is too big to comfortably wear in conjunction with a pack, and too small to pack for more than a very lightweight overnighter at most,
So it seems like your main issue is that you’re not intending to be using it as designed purpose- maybe LBE style equipment with a more modular focus would be a better fit Great piece of content 10/10
For the LFR to work you need the proper outdoor gear to go with it. Read the nixieworks blog but you gotta embrace the ultralight backer mindset as far as sleep system and food go.
you can use the ultralight backpacker method if you're looking to do ultralight backpacking, but most ultralight backpacker stuff isn't really conducive to combat/heavy fieldcraft stuff. Which ultimately supports my point. It's not a bad rig, it's just bad in comparison to stuff designed for combat
@@thelonghousepreparednessit’s bad as an assault rig which you seem to keep referencing as a use case in the video where you talk about ORPs and such. It’s literally not for that so of course it doesn’t make sense. I know you’re smart guy but this is simply trying to view gear through a lens it wasn’t designed for.
@@TerryWhisk the nixieworks guys went to one shepherd and literally almost died because they couldn’t carry what they needed, and someone that was there crunched the numbers about when they staged rucks and how much weight you’re carrying overall and the nixieworks LFR makes it so you carry more weight over a longer period with the ability to carry less. I really cannot think of a situation that would warrant this to be a better system. The other ironic part is the same crowd that’s anti back panel because “you can’t access it” also enjoys this style of rig where you need to take it off to access buttpack contents. Separating your second line and third line gives you much more capability overall, and even in jungle environments or extremely hot environments, a split rig can replace a belt kit and still offer the benefits of opening it up to let air flow.
More capability just equates to adding more pouches and weight. Which isn’t what the LFR concept wasn’t going for. However one The LFRs weakness is not having any webbing to utilize on the straps for something small like a grenade pouch or coms or a fixed blade
Have you thought about revisiting belt kit for training and evaluation? I can see it’s garnering more discussion in 2024 again. I think there is space/development for modernized LBE that can mesh better with GWOT tech advancements. Really if a company can develop belt kit that can pair with plate carriers and US (longer shaped) Ruckpacks, they would have a hit. I like Adam from Spiritus Systems idea of keeping your buttpack type stuff in a dry bag that you can grab and transfer to a ruck when you need that extra space.
I still don’t think that they’re very applicable to most. You’re able to ultimately carry less without the ability to drop the non gunfight related stuff at an ORP or anything. So you end up carrying more weight all the time without the ability to carry as much as you could with chest mounted gear and a ruck
I can see that. I’ve been able to wear a carcajou tactical belt kit paired with a medium Alice well. It also works in conjunction with a slick PC. So it takes the right combo but I think there’s potential there
I think you hit it on the head brother, I’ve never understood the nixieworks. It’s definitely cool and high quality. But it just eliminates the use of any rucksack. And in anything that’s tactical and real…you’re probably going to want and need a rucksack. I have belt kit, and I have chest rigs, and I like my belt kit a lot. But it sits much lower on my waist how most belt kit does. The LFR just has that massive monster buttpack that makes things difficult.
I can count on one hand the number of times we did patrols with full packs- we took out maybe a daypack with ammo, chow, and a woobie or something. It’s definitely not intended to replace a ruck.
Please think the electronic crap and your compass in the same bag. Compass is always in its own space Away from metallic anything that will De-magnetize your compass. Same for taking a compass bearing under the power lines . Thanks for the review.
So I just sewed my own LBE/LFR/PLCE jungle rig thing, I like the idea of these but I do not like nixies execution. His buttpack is simultaneously too big personally I think he carries the wrong things
Not a fan of his giant buttpack. It’s too big to maneuver and doesn’t really replace a pack as intended. Belt kit with smaller butt pack I’ve ran in moderate cold by itself for 3 1/2 days. Can still throw a short back pack on top of it so go almost indefinitely. Also his is super short on molle spaces on his belt. Again, I understand keep the front clear mentality to go super low prone but that’s a throw back to before 30 round box mags under the gun.
What I’m seeing here is a good set up to augment my chest rig, my chest rig should have things on it to save life or take life, my belt kit is for me to plus up/survive for 24hrs, and my pack is for 72+, all of this depends on the system of logistics backing you up, do what your pay grade can handle, but we aren’t all preparing for a situation where we are going to step off a classified helicopter to kill bin Laden and will be back to eat shitty chow hall chicken wings by that night. At least we shouldn’t be. Better to have and not need it I guess.
Let me tell you something. When I was in the 82d we had Alice LBE's and they worked great for tactical combat. This rig is 10x better than the Alice LBE, soooo, the LBE would be great for tactical ops. You're carrying a lot of crap that's not needed for tactical ops. Just sayin....
Maybe it's a breaking contact rig so you don't lose any of your expensive stuff while running away.
Then don’t drop your pack if you break contact
Didn't expect to see you here, Hop
@@Jkp1321 Hop is everywhere
@@simply_basedgotta spray under my deck. Little fucker likes to sneak in there.
@@Jkp1321why not? He’s in the same sphere
I think people tend to miss the point of the LFR. The LFR is not intended to be an "assault" beltkit. I would classify something like the VS Jungle Rig as an "assault" belt kit. The LFR is interesting because its tailored specifically towards (what i would call) civilian activities. Its not for taking and holding ground, HS,LD raids, or multi-day firefights. Its meant to optimize the extended low-profile, on-foot mobility of small groups of people who don't have robust logistical, transportation, or support elements in place during a shtf/wrol situation. Something like "Hey, jim bob just called/radioed -- he saw some suspicious activity on his farm. Hopefully its nothing, but it could also be something, so im going to grab my LFR with 2-3 days worth of sustainment supplies and enough ammo to deal with any potential cattle rustlers/bandits, and walk/bike/ride/drive on over to help him and his son secure their property. Ideally im back before nightfall, but if im not ill be able to sustain myself for a realistic length of time."
You can do literally the same thing with a chest rig and daypack. Combining the two is unnecessary. If you need to hike to somewhere down the road in (scenario of your choice), then you may also want to drop pack when you get there. If he sees suspicious people, they leave, and he then needs help digging a latrine or prepping land for crops, you don’t need your jetboil and quilt on you to do that. You can leave your chest rig on and rifle slung so if bad guys come back, you can respond. But you can also reduce the weight on you and do other things with less burden. And small daypacks are slim enough and, if you pack the same way, light enough to just keep on if you need to break contact while you’re wearing it. The non buttpack jungle rigs and british kit seem to be the better versions of belt kit because you aren’t strapping third line gear onto your second line.
It’s a combination of ultralight hiking guy and prepared civilian
I feel like the rule of thumb for belt kit is that you have to fit it under a Alice pack
Based, my thoughts exactly. Belt kit and med. ALICE are like peas and carrots 🥕
I've worked through the whole progression of belt to vest to chest to plate carrier systems. I think you are right that this LFR is best suited to a recon role. I do find that a belt system is a lot cooler in the summer months going for those long trips.
It’s niche gear for a niche situation meant to be used with other ultralight gear but it’s cool for what it is
The British Army already solved this with their PLCE system which is a better LBE rig that provides padded lumbar support and pouches that don't bounce when you run. You can get them used, new or custom built from companies like Kitmonster, Dixie Corner or JayJays. The American stuff like the Mayflower jungle rig is way too expensive.
The British PLCE is an excellent design; the Mayflower/Velocity systems jungle rig can be setup like the PLCE, and has advantages in modularity/materials/weight/etc., and it does not absorb water. You determine the value. The biggest issue with the American M1956 gear (LBE) is the buttpack integration with ALICE ruck. The LBE works well with the P6x series Vietnam jungle rucks that wrap around the buttpack.
The Brit’s are the masters of belt kit and tabbing. I wore a set of OD PLCE while I was in the CF, it was like wearing a custom fitted set of webbing, which was instantly readjustable and actually comfortable while rucking. They make a platform like place for the bergen to rest on vs the American love of wearing a buttpack which forces the ruck into an extremely weird angle. Thus, my recommendation is that we are now post Afghanistan and most likely to get into a ground war with the Motherland. Hence fight as you train, train as you fight. Don’t be prepared for the parade ground.
I’ve been messing with the whole “LBE” thing off and no for like 15 years. I think the two systems just have a different focus. We have the current GWOT style focus or the move sustained frontline focus of the 40s-70s. I think once “big Marine Corps” isn’t supporting you, the LBE stuff starts looking better. It’s taken being out of the Marines (weapons Co machine gunner) for 5 years to come back to LBE stuff.
If you’re referring to a load bearing belt kit setup as LBE, then it makes things worse because you can’t really use a ruck. I can run a large ruck with a chest rig and gun belt if the gun belt is set up properly, and i can wear a good 3 day with armor and gun belt. All in all the LFR allows me to carry less. Even with using a standard belt kit type setup, you’re limiting yourself to your kit being on just your waistline vs chest and waistline.
The 3 line system is superior.
First- three line is legit but
He’s not saying either is bad- they’ve got different focuses. LBE type equipment has never been popular in vehicles in the Corps- certainly not as a turret gunner like I was.
Outside of afghan I’d never rock a drop leg holster, cause it’s a shitty way to carry a pistol if you’re not driving
Fuck yeah three line system but it’s different system for different focuses.
@@thelonghousepreparedness In the UK belt kit with a ruck is the standard. I think bergens/rucks here might be sized a bit differently to accommodate that, but it's absolutely viable - if you look up pictures of British troops in the Falklands you'll see them with rucks and belt kit.
Belt kits are great for warm, humid conditions, such as jungles. Part of the reason why the Brits still has the PLCE is because jungle fighting is still part of their basic training. This is where belt kits really shine. In hot and humid areas, a chest rig isn't going to allow your chest to dump out excess heat.
Definitely. I'd argue they're better for extreme cold as well or when you need to transition layers frequently.
Thanks for the indepth overview of the lightfighter rig, i've been on the fence on getting this kit, I was thingking of using this as a fighting/survival line in cold weather. But, from the real esstate of the rig that you show in the video, i don't think it's feasible for my case. I will be sticking with my chest rig and pack for now.
Cold weather makes it especially difficult due to bulk of warming layers
Great vid! Loving the mythology podcast when I can go back to listening to it. (I listen between work and home and when doing chores)
Great Channel, just found you, subscribed.
Viewpoint from a 35yr Army Spec Ops combat vet (Iraq/Afghan, Other) Panama, Jungle School. The Point of the Split Rig style (Velocity Jungle, Nixieworks) is primarily for Foot Jungle Patrolling long or short and Sniper Ops where will be in prone. The point is that chest rigs or anything covering chest and back will overheat you almost immediately in the jungle, and you CANNOT carry enough water to compensate for the amount of sweating. This is basically a modern Korea, Vietnam era uaed thru 70's 80's 90's LBE.
For Snipers the ability to unbuckle and push the rig to left and right is obvious to go as prone as possible. While a Chest Rig CAN be worn, you'd have to carry more weight in water than Ammo.
Again this would not be a primary choice for missions where your riding Heloing up to Objective to assault /raid on compounds, structures or vehicle ops.
Its for longer Foot Patrolling in Hot Humid Environments where your not getting resupplied for awhile, if at all. So also like a SHTF grid down homestead community defense scenario.
Like someone else mentioned, the GWOT days of in and out with 4 mags and a snickers bar are over then or in the Pacific island hopping.
(If driving, you will obviously have to remove it.
So if you are kitting out for Alaska, Canada, Redoubt it's probably not a priority purchase. If in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama central/south America, maybe more so.
Oh definitely. I think that there is a place for the larger belt rigs in general, mainly being like you said where you're either crawling long distances or in very hot or very cold environments where your body temp is a big concern. That being said, I personally don't think that the size of the nixieworks buttpack is very good, especially compared to offerings from Mayflower or Spiritus Systems. The buttpack is too big to comfortably wear in conjunction with a pack, and too small to pack for more than a very lightweight overnighter at most,
Ah been listening to the podcast for a little over a year and unconsciously found the yt channel too
I’ve replaced canteens with a Grayl Geopress and Camelbak. Great rig
So it seems like your main issue is that you’re not intending to be using it as designed purpose- maybe LBE style equipment with a more modular focus would be a better fit
Great piece of content
10/10
Good in depth review definitely appreciate it,❤️💯
they call it a jungle rig for a reason dude
For the LFR to work you need the proper outdoor gear to go with it. Read the nixieworks blog but you gotta embrace the ultralight backer mindset as far as sleep system and food go.
you can use the ultralight backpacker method if you're looking to do ultralight backpacking, but most ultralight backpacker stuff isn't really conducive to combat/heavy fieldcraft stuff. Which ultimately supports my point. It's not a bad rig, it's just bad in comparison to stuff designed for combat
@@thelonghousepreparednessit’s bad as an assault rig which you seem to keep referencing as a use case in the video where you talk about ORPs and such. It’s literally not for that so of course it doesn’t make sense. I know you’re smart guy but this is simply trying to view gear through a lens it wasn’t designed for.
@@TerryWhisk the nixieworks guys went to one shepherd and literally almost died because they couldn’t carry what they needed, and someone that was there crunched the numbers about when they staged rucks and how much weight you’re carrying overall and the nixieworks LFR makes it so you carry more weight over a longer period with the ability to carry less.
I really cannot think of a situation that would warrant this to be a better system. The other ironic part is the same crowd that’s anti back panel because “you can’t access it” also enjoys this style of rig where you need to take it off to access buttpack contents. Separating your second line and third line gives you much more capability overall, and even in jungle environments or extremely hot environments, a split rig can replace a belt kit and still offer the benefits of opening it up to let air flow.
Do I spy a crye AVS 1000 pack in the background?
Nvm I spoke to soon, you said it later on in the video.
Hill people gear needs to make a bigger butt pack.
A lot of LARPers not understanding the entire point of this kit in these comments 😂
I feel like you can get the same or more capability from a traditional harness with a butt pack for half the price.
More capability just equates to adding more pouches and weight. Which isn’t what the LFR concept wasn’t going for. However one The LFRs weakness is not having any webbing to utilize on the straps for something small like a grenade pouch or coms or a fixed blade
@@socalpumpballer there are other sewn harnesses I'm pretty sure
Have you thought about revisiting belt kit for training and evaluation? I can see it’s garnering more discussion in 2024 again. I think there is space/development for modernized LBE that can mesh better with GWOT tech advancements. Really if a company can develop belt kit that can pair with plate carriers and US (longer shaped) Ruckpacks, they would have a hit. I like Adam from Spiritus Systems idea of keeping your buttpack type stuff in a dry bag that you can grab and transfer to a ruck when you need that extra space.
I still don’t think that they’re very applicable to most.
You’re able to ultimately carry less without the ability to drop the non gunfight related stuff at an ORP or anything. So you end up carrying more weight all the time without the ability to carry as much as you could with chest mounted gear and a ruck
I can see that. I’ve been able to wear a carcajou tactical belt kit paired with a medium Alice well. It also works in conjunction with a slick PC. So it takes the right combo but I think there’s potential there
I think you hit it on the head brother, I’ve never understood the nixieworks. It’s definitely cool and high quality. But it just eliminates the use of any rucksack. And in anything that’s tactical and real…you’re probably going to want and need a rucksack. I have belt kit, and I have chest rigs, and I like my belt kit a lot. But it sits much lower on my waist how most belt kit does. The LFR just has that massive monster buttpack that makes things difficult.
I can count on one hand the number of times we did patrols with full packs- we took out maybe a daypack with ammo, chow, and a woobie or something.
It’s definitely not intended to replace a ruck.
Somebody is always reinventing the wheel. I have the same capability with my Alice web gear. It worked in 'Nam, it still works today.
This line of thinking is very bad
Please think the electronic crap and your compass in the same bag. Compass is always in its own space Away from metallic anything that will De-magnetize your compass. Same for taking a compass bearing under the power lines . Thanks for the review.
So I just sewed my own LBE/LFR/PLCE jungle rig thing, I like the idea of these but I do not like nixies execution. His buttpack is simultaneously too big personally I think he carries the wrong things
Not a fan of his giant buttpack. It’s too big to maneuver and doesn’t really replace a pack as intended. Belt kit with smaller butt pack I’ve ran in moderate cold by itself for 3 1/2 days. Can still throw a short back pack on top of it so go almost indefinitely. Also his is super short on molle spaces on his belt. Again, I understand keep the front clear mentality to go super low prone but that’s a throw back to before 30 round box mags under the gun.
What I’m seeing here is a good set up to augment my chest rig, my chest rig should have things on it to save life or take life, my belt kit is for me to plus up/survive for 24hrs, and my pack is for 72+, all of this depends on the system of logistics backing you up, do what your pay grade can handle, but we aren’t all preparing for a situation where we are going to step off a classified helicopter to kill bin Laden and will be back to eat shitty chow hall chicken wings by that night. At least we shouldn’t be. Better to have and not need it I guess.
Let me tell you something. When I was in the 82d we had Alice LBE's and they worked great for tactical combat. This rig is 10x better than the Alice LBE, soooo, the LBE would be great for tactical ops. You're carrying a lot of crap that's not needed for tactical ops. Just sayin....
@@mustanggun I don’t even know where to start with this one so I’ll just laugh