3 Top Subwoofer Brands Face Off: Which One Will Come Out On Top? REL, JL Audio and SVS talk.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2023
- 3 Top Subwoofer Brands Face Off: Which One Will Come Out On Top? REL, JL Audio and SVS talk.
DISCLAIMER FOR THE PEANUT GALLERY. I am not saying these are the only 3 subs on the planet that are good. Please calm down. I know there are other subs that are good. Never said that. These are what I believe to be the 3 best found in stores etc. I review them. People need a hobby with some of these comments. If you don't like my opinions...go watch videos on the subs you love and stay over there. K-Thanks
Here we talk one of my favorite subjects. BASS !!! Man I love good bass. And I love all three of these brands and really the only subs I sell other than some large theater custom stuff. No reason to sell anything else. These are all different in each their own amazing way. We do a deep dive on Ported subs vs Sealed subs and both of their strengths and weaknesses. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Hands down the best video I've come across explaining the different character of subs from different brands.
Would be great if you did a video series on best subs in different price ranges and which type of sub would serve which application.
Great suggestion! I can elaborate. Always looking for different ideas.
Thank you for making this video. I’ve wished I found this video much sooner. You are one of the very few on TH-cam that understands bass from musical to theater.
Tell the commentors. They think I have no clue what i'm talking about...after all my awards and 25 years...aparently it's me that's dumb. lol. I just laugh. Thanks so much. Enjoy my content. I appreciate you watching.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV 👏 wow 25 yrs of awards so I can't be wrong. Ego maybe?
Pretty much .....I don't deny my ego. I have earned it like a badge....maybe that's another award I won...my ego. Love it.
I'm an audio engineer and producer..
I've owned 3 W7s in my life in two different environments. Car and Studio!
I haven't had a car for 10 years, but when I did and was into car--stereo I upgraded everything over and over again, eventually getting Diamond Hex front speakers and DLS 7x10s in the rear.
As for subwoofers, I went through some custom drivers, a Soundstream 10", Diamond Audio D12 and eventually a JL W3 12", ..I never upgraded my sub after I got the W7 - I never found a better sounding speaker in my life.
It was so good in fact - that I bought 2x JL Audio Fathom 12" inch for my music studio. Total overkill, but it's a completely immersive experience and it sounds unreal..
I've nearly spent as much on acoustic treatment as speakers because if you can't hear clearly what's coming out of the monitors, then you can't mix properly. You can mix tracks on cheap and average speakers if your room is treated properly and you know what you're doing.
One of the hardest areas to mix when making records is the low end - I can hear exactly what's going on down there and mix it perfectly every time... and, also enjoy being "inside" the bass while I do it!
I love music, I love speakers, I love music production and playing instruments.. it's sad that there is a pretty toxic argumentative group of folks in the comment section under any subwoofer video.
I'm not going to argue with anyone about high end subwoofers and sound quality or *this* being better than *that*. I believe at a certain level of price and quality gets personal and subjective and I personally love the JL sound. That smoothness, three-dimensionality of being surrounded by it. It's unreal. You only have to look at the frequency response graph too. In a sealed box (which I prefer for the transient response) it's ruler flat down to like, 18hz-ish and lower. Graphs aren't everything - but the transient response for such a large travel distance at high volume is incredible.
As you said - I love everything that JL do. I'm sure the owner and their research department love MUSIC.. not just hitting you in the face with air. Which is what some companies seem to want to do to impress you.
No wonder the W7 took YEARS of research and development, it's won a ton of awards, it has 8 patents for just the construction and they haven't changed the design since it was released.
If there ever was a W8 or newer speaker, I guarantee it would just sound different, not be better.
Before the W7, when I was first getting into car audio, I had their W3 for a while and that has to be one of my favourite more budget subwoofers too. I was a fantastic woofer that played notes that I never heard on other subs in that price range. (There's a note in the bassline of a track by Basement Jaxx called Romeo, that I swear just disappears on other subwoofers!
Thanks for sharing.
I'm thinking of getting a Fathom F112 myself- sounds like you would unreservedly recommend it?
Finally someone that actually agrees with me on using 2 different subs. 1 larger subs for the lower frequencies and a smaller musical quicker sub for the higher/midbass. SUBSCRIBED
I do a lot of things different you will find. That's what 25 years of av experience and THEN youtube..vs TH-cam first and learning AV later because it's my "hobby" ...will get you. I appreciate the comments.
That's something I never thought to do.. I mean, technically it's all possible.
You can see main speakers that have 2 or 3-way designs to cover different frequency ranges. The tradeoff is that the crossovers have to be absolutely superb if you want a quality speaker that doesn't have dips or bumps in the frequency response graph - and you have to take into consideration the timing of the phase, transients and blending of the soundwaves as they eminent from the cones themselves so they don't blend and cause destructive cancellation or add together. That's why some 3-way designs benefit from using waveguides (like in the K&H (now Neumann) O300 3-way monitors)
So, yeah, it's possible, but are you adding in more problems that the bump in sound quality you might potentially gain from that set up?
The JL Audio fathom comes with a microphone and has a set up test mode that measures all the room modes and EQ's your speaker accordingly. That's just one speaker.
What would your crossover points be on 2 subs?
So, I thought about it - then I went and tested it.
Depends on the speaker, but from what I know about audio engineering and the way that music is mixed (its my job) and where the fundamentals of most instruments and voice occur.. I expected to get the best results from splitting 20hz - 120hz, then 120hz to 220hz then let the main speakers take over the rest. No matter when you cut off the main speakers from bass, they will always sound cleaner the less low frequencies they have to deal with. Technically 120hz above isn't really deep bass, but above is where you'll find ALL the midrange fundamentals - so the cleaner the better for that range)
And the result is... No. Completely ignore all of that and do it mathematically by letting the subs handle octaves.
Best results were from:
Sub 1 : 20-80hz (2 octaves)
Sub 2 : 80hz to 160hz (1 octave)
Took a while to tune the phase as well
My Rythmik F15 HP sealed servo sub blends beautifully with the mains for music and movies.
Glad you love your gear that's what it's all about.
Absolutely brilliant video. I'm from the UK and I've not seen one video on someone saying about blending a REL subwoofer with your centre. I did this about a year ago with a tip from a AV specialist in the UK, you and that AV specialist are the only two people that told me about this. I get extra controlled bass from my Kef centre without having to upgrade to a centre costing thousands
Awesome. Glad you enjoyed it.
I have 2 Rel S/812 paired with Focal Sopra 3s. I have them hooked up for music via direct connect to amp out and for theater via my Marantz AV receiver sub out. In my room the S/812 absolutely kill it for both music and theater. When the LFE hits on a movie my house and everything in it is energized and so impactful. Of course everything is room and system interaction dependent but I am really happy with REL. And I also have a lot of love for JL having had experience with them. I understand the RELs are expensive but I do not feel I did not get my moneys worth based on my results
I love REL too.. I only went over the strengths...and weaknesses. And there are both with REL. There are none with JL...that's all. But I love them.
Do you connect lfe channel and hi level same time?
@@teknolojigundemi Yes, the REL has High-Level inputs that I take from the Amp to drive the SUBs for music and theater. I have a Marantz receiver that I run with input from my TV with sub out going to REL LFE channel. My Michi P5V2 has HT pass-through, which is used when watching TV/Movies, so you get bass management via the receiver. The beautiful thing is we have so many choices. And in the end, it's what works in your system and makes you happy. Reviews are helpful in so many ways, but none of them can tell us what will work best in our rooms or equipment configurations. For me, the LFE input solves the gut-wrenching bass issue mentioned in the review
You can. Just goes a touch lower if you do...makes it more dynamic. But still have to crossover properly.
I have two older SVS Utra 13's that weighs 90 lbs each Finished in piano black So glad that SVS has an upgrade path as I've replaced to the upgraded plate amps with 1,200 watts RMS 4,000 peaks Everything is now controlled with DSP via their phone amp I also upgraded to their SVS isolation feet
Great stuff.
I just recently got an SB13 Ultra too and I love it! Now I'm super curious how a PB16 Ultra is
@@justinmanny86
I have Dual SVS PB16 Ultras and to answer your question, they will literally scare the crap out of you. And if one’s constipated, it will turn into diarrhea 😂💩
How about RSL speedwoofer 12s?
It has crazy spl and digs deep and plays awesome with movies and music!
Pairs perfect with my Focal 👍
No experience with them. But if you love them… it’s the right fit.
Most ported subs port tune is low enough to where there should not be a difference between it and a sealed sub with music. This is If the port is designed well. Use rew and a mini dsp to take it to the next level. .
My advice to people for true home theater.
Minimum. 2 subs
Minimum size: 12
Ideally 4
I personally run 2 stereo integrity 24s in sealed cabinets. 4k rms to each sub. Now my subs are still calibrated to reference. But full tilt, it’s pretty crazy.
I always hear a difference in ported and not. But many make good ported subs. Just not as detailed as I like. I have the same “advice” for subs in a room. Sounds like you have cool stuff. Rock on
Yeah, no. LOLZ,
Exactly, bad info on ported subs! Not musical? Get out of here!
I think I’ll get a pair of fathoms because of your recommendation. I need something for both music and running a home theater on 2 channel floorstanders
They are the very best in the world. Let me know if we can help. Free tax it not in TX
You could also go the DIY route and buy large, high quality drivers, build a decent sealed cabinet and add a pro amp. It's actually not tha complicated but takes time and work.
yes you can always build anything yourself to save money...if you possess the skills. knowledge, time. I am recommending things to buy. Thanks,
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVSure. I think the market for big sealed subs is quite small so there is little competition and prices are high. But for most people, 15s will be enough (for me as well)
@@Pentenfi for most it is...that's why I sell them all the time. Cheaper big bass.
Nice presentation! Paul over at PS Audio talks very highly of REL, and owns one in his home system. HERE's something different. I read thought all the comments so far, and someone wanted to know if you would include in a future test a sub from the Martin Logan Dynamo series.
My dealer mated my Martin Logan Classic 9 electrostats with their Dynamo 1600X with ARC. It's a wonderful thing and I run it in downfire mode because I am on a hard floor.
Granted, this is strictly a 2.1 music ONLY system, but that subwoofer works quick enough to keep up with the E'stats and conservatively set, adds just that extra octave below the bass modules on the mains, and it's xover setting at 35Hz. I also feed the sub with speaker outputs from the Parasound A-21 amp, much like your recommendation with REL.
Thanks again! 🙂
Nice system. I love ML and have Estats in our showroom as well. The bigger dynamo subs are good
I like my Rhythmik with its horizontally opposed 15 inch drivers.
Liking what you own is the goal.
I have a pair of Martin Logan Descent I’s in a 28x14 room. They are sealed, servo controlled wit 3-10” drivers and a 750w amp. I’m really happy with them but wanted a bit more punch for movies. I added a REL HT-1510 Predator, Mission accomplished.
I used to run those in one of my old stores....GREAT subs. Big, heavy fun subs. We love ML
Dave, very informative 0:07 on subs. I am building a theater room 13’ 2”x 17’ 10” specifically for movies & popcorn. After watching your video & you introducing me to JL subs, I am not sure if I should go with my original plan of buying two SVS PB 3000 0r spend more on two Phantom F112v2 ? I rather get it right the 1st time & not buy twice. Your video’s are super helpful & to the point, thank you.
Thanks I apprecate it. JL all the way. I love SVS..but the two price points have differences for a reason. One is a nice Mercedes...the other is a Porsche Turbo S. Both great to own..but different.
I like the RSL SPEEDWOOFER 12S with wireless remote.
Thanks for sharing what you like. NO experience with it.
It would be great if you can compare the JL Audio Fathom to Perlisten subs, the Rel 1510 Predator to SVS SB-16, Sb-4000, Martin Logan Dynamo 1600x, Definitive Technology DN15 and other sealed subs. I haven’t seen anyone review the Definitive Technology DN15.
I’ll eventually get to reviewing products. Perlisten I don’t sell. The rest I do and have opinions on all of them.
It would be great to have you do comparisons between all. The Paradigm XR13 would be a great comparison as well.
I need it tight and clean. My living room shares a wall with my neighbor’s. I’d consider a T9 with a T7 tied to the center, as you proposed, but that’s as far as my budget will allow.
Would be great
For me, my non negotiables for a sub are post -warranty servicing ( obv for a price) in the continent I'm on and an app to configure the sub. The app allows for quick A/B of settings that's otherwise impossible. Makes it so much easier to dial in. This helps me eliminate essentially 90%+ of companies.
Great point
Love my twin SVS SB 4000's to go with my beloved full range Martin Logan CLS for music
Love it. nice stuff.
I bought a REL and it never made it past the frequency sweeps before it was back in the box and returned for an SVS SB-16. Everything under 35 Hz was a honking, distorted 80Hz overtone instead of the actual signal. And even within the frequencies it could play, it couldn't come close to enough output to match regular family-friendly listening levels without breaking up. If you only listen to banjos and flutes, the REL is the subwoofer for you.
Sorry to hear that. I would watch some videos on how to get views. Look into tubebuddy as a plugin. Honestly this is new to me as well and im not sure I am not doing it right either. Kick it's ass
It is not as powerful for sure as an SVS, Properly calibrated they are a very good sub.
You truly sound like a home theatre guy who only cares about quantity of bass, not quality. 😂
Yes. I have REL...and JL Audio...because I don't care about Bass quality. You got it.
would be interesting to know what REL you bought. Since you are comparing it to an 16inch SVS it surely had to be something like the HT/1510 Predator, right?
As an owner of 2 REL T9x’s and 2 JL Audio’s (E110 & E112), the JL’s hands down go very low without breaking a sweat in a dedicated home theatre setup and are great for music as well. I also like the REL’s though fall apart below around 35hz though they sound awesome in 2 channel music mode.
Informative and great video. Keep it up.
100% accurate assessment. Love both those subs if you use them right
Hi, great subs. I had t9 and like it very much. But my dream sun f112. Do we need 2 subs for stereo. İf we connect via neutrik how we prevent main speakers tries catch that deep. Some amplifiers like parasound halo mint has filters.
I know there is a notable price difference between the T9x's and the S/812s and the S/812s have no issue playing clean LFE down to sub sonics
JL Audio are overpriced, toy subs!
Wait until you get some serious gear, like Stereo Integrity or Acoustic Elegance. For 1 JL Audio sub, you can get several Stereo Integrity 24" subs! It's a no-brainer.
JL is for people who don't know better!!!
@@utubecomment21 hey thanks. But you know what they say about opinions.
i decided to separate my home theater and 2 channel audio systems. I use 2 SVS SB 16's for my 2 channel system, and I use 2 monolith 215's for my home theater, I can get 120db @ 20hz at 6ft, they're huge but they get the job done, I get sticker shock when I see an $7000 subwoofer that can't match the output of the monoliths!
To each their own.
REL 212 SX? Any opinions on this series of subs? X2 in a room
18x30 ??
Trinnov Altitude 16 processor for a dedicated home theatre?
Phenomenal subs. Just like I say though...cut them off at 40. If you run them full with your fronts..there will be times they will fail. Don't let them go too low and they will shock and awe. Musically the best there is. Big room....Love it.
Dual opposing subs in a sealed cabinet which give you speed, extension & compact dimensions without any vibration, like the KEF KF92 are the way forward and all other designs are old hat.
I don't know about old hat...but I like the KF92 quite a bit and use it often
Thank you for this review, currently pushing dual SVS SB3000's in my small 10'x10'x8' room 5.2.4 setup at 50% PS5, 40% movies/tv, 10% music. Playing World of Tanks at louder levels is crazy 🙃🔊🔊💥 literally my wife will open the door and give me the "come on!" 😁😇😂👊🏽💥
That's the best kind. Nice ...enjoy !!
What about the REL predator line array?
Try a ported Arendal sub and you'll experience ported subs can sound musical. They display excellent group delay measurements.
The same goes for Rythmik subwoofers.
I'm good with the subs I sell and love. They make good subs though.
İn general subs has Class D amps.Rel has class AB and class D models. Do amp class make a difference for musicality. Also JL has dsp. What do you think dsp implementation? Do we need?
Just filters analog signals. Can be usedul
Perlisten subwoofers i would say compete directly with JL, they start around the fathom f110 price and go up from there. I have their entry level R210S subwoofer and i have it turned way down and i can feel the room shake under 20hz and its super quick but can rumble when it needs to. JL is amazing aswell i was about to buy an f110 before i heard the perlisten.
I'm sure they are good. I just sell JL...have for decades. Love it. Lots of good stuff out there I don't carry. I can't carry it all
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV I hope JL comes out with new models soon, it's been awhile for them since they last updated their lineup. I would love to see app control or maybe a new driver. I know the old saying if it's not broke don't fix it but I really want to see some new tech from them.
@@MasterMark5 I agree 100% on the app control. Hard to calibrate a sub and then sit down...do it again etc. who knows if..and when they will.
How would you rate the new REL Reference No. 31 or 32 series vs the JL fathom 113? I think they are similarly priced and I’ve always wondered. I have Dual ReL 510s now, they are crispy and fast, but they do struggle to go below 35 Hz
Same story..just a better version of REL...but nothing they make really handles the deep stuff. Cut it off at 40...they are great. 510 is a really nice sub.
Hi . Great,informative video. What pair of subs would you recommend for my Martin Logan 13A's? In a 16 by 16 heavily treated room. . I just listen 2 channel music.. No theater. Thanks
JL Audio E or Fathom ...Rel T9x or Carbons if you can...S series...all phenomenal.
The SVS SB 1000 pro does its job well with my 5 other Speakers.
It's a great value for sure. We love it.
Can u please make a video of you blending in differnt subs. Im a AV installer and i would love too learn more.
So that's actually on the docket. More to do with our new FCAV venture but I'll be doing super deep dive calibration videos on just about everything.
I've been using a pair of Sumiko S9's (10" sealed with passive radiator) with my Elac Adante tower speakers for a few years now and am very happy with how the Sumiko's blend with the Adante's (using the high level inputs on the subs) in my room for music. My music comes from CD's, vinyl, and streaming through a PS Audio DirectStream DAC with a Rogue RP5 preamp and a pair of PS Audio M700 monoblocks.
Thanks for sharing
Sumiko is, or was, John Hunter's company. You have an almost REL. That's why they connect the same way.
What about JTR or PSA for subs and speakers
Both brands are good. I tend to sell more "aesthetic" brands than true theater speakers. But I personally love stuff like that.
I currently have a Mirage Omni S8 8” ported, SVS SB1000 pro 12” sealed, SVS PC2000 pro 12” running in ported mode and HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP 15” running in one port open mode. The little 8” is the least musical/tight sounding/articulate/fast/however you want to describe it. The biggest the 15” HSU actually has the edge in musicality over the 12” subs. A good big ported sub can be musical in my experience.
I didn't say it couldn't...I said it's not as musical. Which is more factual than opinion.
Is it also factual that you personally can hear a difference between cheap and expensive cables? 😂
@@toddNothingClever Analog cables...sure I can. Lots can. I don't actually think you are watching the videos....lol.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV I did watch this video of yours all the way through. I haven’t seen any of your other videos. I guess because I have two of the SVS subs that you sell and I’ve watched videos about them and you have SVS in the title the algorithm suggested this video. I’ve been in this hobby for a over 30 years and my views have evolved with experience.
I’ve learned there are a lot intangible qualities audiophiles pride themselves on being able to discern because we have egos and being able to have such a refined sense makes one special.
But sometimes the science does not support it. I really enjoy the experiment where expert wine reviewers were given white wines, but some had food coloring to appear red. They described all the differences they tasted only to be very upset when they were told it was all white wine.
Dr. Floyd Toole and his colleagues at Harmon did a lot of good science based research. May I suggest his book?
Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms (Audio Engineering Society Presents) a.co/d/7hTSNnP
@@toddNothingClever thanks. I know the technical too. That’s not what my page is here for. Thanks
Hello.
This was very nice video.
Just one question 2 rel tx9 or 1 pb400.
I listion to music a lot but I need sub that fills room too.
Those REL will fill the room. Just cross over at 40hz and calibrate. they are quite good and great for music. the PB 4000 (I imagine you meant that) will be way too boomy.
Lmao, big boxes. 18" is medium 21-24" is big. The sealed boxes absolutely can do give you omph, shake your insides and chair. My ultimax does it and Im also building 2 more 21" subwoofers to hit 5hz in room because room gain is very effective. Its also super cheap to just make subs
Congrats. Super cheap isn’t what we do here though. But for hobbyists have fun
🥱🥱 Wake me up when when he stops lagging. Those subs are slow and lack the brain power (DSP) to keep up with JL Audio. Your the guy that thinks just because you build a bigger sub that it will blow other subs out the water after millions have went ito research & development for these products.
Oh you wanna talk low frequency? Well don't be cheap go buy quality and then come back to brag. It's call acciendo audio. Your welcome! 😂
Another cool thing about the SVS PB3000 is that it ships with really tight fitting optional port plugs so it can operate in sealed mode if you like. That PB3000 is one great product. Bravo SVS!
I agree. I love SVS. I sell it more than any other brand.
Thoughts on the Rel S/510? I’m considering getting a pair for my Kef R11 metas.
Great pairing for music....those are killer subs. Happy to sell them to you so we can help with support and calibration as well if needed.
Have you ever heard Arendal 1723 subs? The 2S snd 2V models have 13.8” horizontal dual opposed drivers. They look really good but I have not heard them yet.
they are good. Plenty of better things. They are a good for the money brand. LIke a Toyota 4 Runner
Is there a better bang for buck than two PB-3000s? That's what I think I want but not sure at that price point if there's better options.
Not really. Great sub if you like deep and ok with it being less accurate. JL Esub line would be the sealed equivelent...or close. Great stuff both though. The 3000 is big. Doubles as a coffee table lol. Great movie sub though...fun...violent and takes a beating.
@@Yourdaddy001 JL will always be my pick. E sub on up there is nothing better. But they won't shake a room like SVS...bass isn't all the same. It's more different to me than speakers can be.
I’m interested in the M&K X series subwoofers. Can barely find any reviews on them. I know the British and I know they’re expensive.
They are good too. Theater bass. Tight. Their whole lineup is good for movies. Good stuff.
What about subs built into structures like walls and floors??Have you had any experience with PSB subs I heard 1 at an audio show they sounded very musical. Also saw some pretty massive subs by Paradigm but never heard them??
Both are good. building into cabinets is ok but does change the sound. Front has to be open and make sure not down firing .Paradigm subs super powerful and can handle quite a bit. PsB never heard their subs but wouldn't surprise me if they were good. Good company.
Thanks for this video, I have been struggling to decide, I care about no so loud listing music (not movies) want good musical sound but punchy base, JL E110 or REL T9x or there is something you suggest, thank you in advance
I like them both. The JL will go lower the REL for music alone is better because of how it calibrates.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV thanks just bought JL E110 after your feedback 😊 I will only use it for music listening, hope my pick was right 😊 thanks for a wonderful video!!!
You absolutely cannot go wrong with JL....I own it and love it.
Thank you sir
Where is your store located sir?
We are in North Dallas
It would be cool to see another comparison of flagships from JTR, PSA, and Rhythmik to see how they compare to these. Both sealed and ported.
Don’t sell them so prob not. Maybe I’ll get them to send them to me when I’m TH-cam famous 😂😂
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVTrue being internet direct I imagine it's a lot harder.
@@justinbeamon6624 yeah it's just not what we do. We are a custom HT design firm.
Looking for an upgrade for 2 channel music listening. (Currently have a 12 inch ported sub which provides adequate bass for movies per our preferences). However, as I have substantially upgraded my system for 2 channel listening, the current sub sounds more sloppy/slow. My listening room is 2500 cubic feet (but adjoins a 1500 cubic feet kitchen area). My power amp provides 300 watts rms/2 channels; driving 3 way, 89 db efficient, 4 ohm tower speakers. My processor allows me to run 3 subs. Current thinking - I keep the current ported sub for movies, switch to sealed for 2 channel listening. I am clueless as to how much bass I need for my room? One larger sealed or 2 smaller sealed, etc. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Would depend on budget and what speakers you're running ..but REL or JL would be better for sure. Many levels in those brands though.
PerListen 👍
Good stuff
Can you do a REL 3D setup with a video review?
Maybe. Always easy to ask...would need to buy a bunch of REL subs...lol. they don't give htem to me. I do like it though. They still can't go below 40HZ...
Does JL audio Subs support LFE and High level both at the same time? Reason for asking is, if someone could use single sub for their 2-Ch amp and HT Receiver at the same time (with out keep changing the cables). if not then, is there any other sub that supports both (except REL)?
ONly the E subs do. But the Fathoms...and even Esubs in my opinion are so clean you can use them LFE for music. But if only speaker level for a different amp than REL or Esub
Thoughts on Seaton Sound, M&K, Monoprice, HSU? Also, thoughts on the importance of THX certification?
I like Seaton, Love m&K for theater...power. I don't love Monoprice or HSU..just people that found out they can make stuff loud in china for less. THX just means it can pressurize a room at certain sizes and volumes. Most can pass but don't pay...so take that for what it is.
Ever heard any Arendals? Seem to compete with SVS with maybe an edge in value?
I like them. Cool speakers
What is your opinion of the HT line by REL? Have been reading that the 1510 Predator is fairly musical while delivery good home theatre performance.
Great stuff. Not sure it's my favorite...but the Predator is nice. The smaller ones are just ok. Rel definately put some thought into that sub.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV I appreciate the input, thank you! I have been going back and forth between the Predator and a few SVS around the $1600 price point. It will be in a large family room with two story ceilings, so not your traditional theatre config. The Rel Predator, at 15", seems like it would fill that size room...but would a ported SVS be better? We watch movies in this room as well as listen to music.
the SVS will be more bass...and louder in general for sure. Both would be good. The SVS is better...more money though I believe. Both can be musical..it tuned. Even a 12 is plenty. look at JL E112 too. Great versatile sub. Powerful
Have you heard the Elac varro dual reference DS1000 and DS1200? If so what do you think about them i'm considering the ds1200
Havent heard it sorry. I am very loyal to the brands I have and have loved and sought after for my showrooms.
One additional question. I have a pretty large room (20x30x14 High) and have had one Paradigm Ultra Cube for the last 14 years. I am not sure how this relatively small sub shakes the room and immensely satisfying. Maybe it’s bc it has a downfiring 12 with two passive radiators on the sides? My question is that since Paradigm discontinued this model, which subs would you say would perform similarly for a room my size and I really only want sub for now.
Clean sub. Perlisten are like that...Def Tech super cubes...closest though to what you are saying is the KEF92.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVThank you. How would the SVS 16 ultra sealed measure up. The radiators are supposed to increase output substantially so curious what type of single woofer sealed would be needed to stack up.
Nowhere near as musical....can't be that large...but hits super hard for movies. Just digs deep. Great sub...very different sound
What are your thoughts on near field subs?
Can help in a non treated room as it takes the room out of the equation. You'll hear less bass that way usually. So that's an opinion..in my experience people want more bass. Clients care less about quality and just want to feel it. They don't even know that's what they are giving up...they just want to say "wow"
Any thoughts on the 1205 for movies?
pretty nice sub. REL pedigree. Give it a try. others around that are PB or SB2000, Paradigm makes some killer subs not too crazy. Their Predator 15 is pretty killer for the money too.
What do you think of the B&W DB line compared to the JL?
BW cannot make a sub like JL...as a matter of fact their CEO left BW for JL....because he literally said they tried for 10 years to make a better sub and couldn't. If you can't beat them join them. Direct quote in an email from him to his dealers.
I used to have SB3000 which is very good subwoofer for the price. then I replaced it with JLE112, which is sound better. Now I have 4 E112 subs and 2 F113 in my HT. Tried SVS ported subs, and do not like it as it sounds not as tight as sealed subs.
What did you cross the 3000s at?
@@WeBuild4Life i think it was 80hz. But subwoofer crossover also depends on your speakers you use.
Sounds amazing to me.
Hi all. I live in Australia. Currently have a REL T7x... Should I a) Get another T7x b) Buy a T9X and sell T7X or c) get a JL E112/E110 and sell T7X ? 100% music. Cheers Andy. Need more info? Just ask please
Even better...Put the T7X on your center speaker if you have one and get a jL....or if really just 2ch...get another T7 so you can put one on each speaker.
Hi there, from you experience on jl audio fathoms. I was talking to a dealer about 2 F110 v2 for use in home theater setup. And he told me that they are not good for it. To go with REL carbon special. That the F110 starts to roll of at 30hz. How true is that? My room is 14x18
I had those exact subs...they are phenominal. Rel is for music...I went from rel to the JL...they just. handle low end better. Also you won't need lower than 30...they hig low...hard...fast and musical. Great subs. If you want that little something extra..get the 12's. We ship anywhere in the nation as well. just fyi..just have to contact us directly.
Any thoughts on Paradigm subs?
Pretty good actually. Big sound. Can move some air. Really good value as well.
Hi, I have a 1460 cubic foot room, Sonus Faber Concerto's - would I be better with 2x REL T5's one SVSSB4000? I am only interested in music. I know I could do with bigger subs but that is the budget and I may move to a smaller room in 6 months.
The T7 woudl be the best match. I'd say for sure do the REL though. Perfect for that application. And...GREAT speakers. I've sold hundreds of those back in the day. Best bang for the buck back then. Love them.
Had an svs sb3000. Thinking of replacing with either a REL S/510 or SB4000. Marantz 8015 receiver. B&W 700 Speakers. And 2 other subs ; Rel t7x & sb3000 micro.
Want the slam but tight clean for music.
Which of the 2 wpuld you recommend?
Theater or music....they are so different. If for movies...get the SVS the REL just cannot do it. Or go JL...like me. Does both.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVgames pc. Which one best? Svs or JL?
JL is better. But they are more money and higher end...so that's obvious. Both are very good though.
What did you get? What was missing from sb3000?
Hi, great video on the subs.. i recently upgrade my system. Av CX-5200 yamaha advantage. MCintosh MI347 surround/ McIntosh MC302 Stereo amp. 7.1 setup. speakers Sonus Faber Sonetto 8 with the Centre II. now i am looking for a good sub. i play 60% movies 40% music. doubting between a REL S812 and a JL E112.. what are your thoughts?
Contact me through my site by phone or email and I can assist. We sell both and help people all over the nation.
Do you listen to budget center channel speakers? If so, please see below.
What center channel speaker would you recommend at $400 or less.
I was looking at the ELAC Debut2.0 C6.2. But I heard the Uni-Fi 2.0 Center might be better.
But I think a 3 way is the way to go.
My fronts are ELAC Debut2.0 F6.2
I don’t have a sub yet. Still trying to find one. Right now it’s looking like the RSL 10e or 10s MK2.
SVS makes a killer center that's not too much...KEF Q series also nice.
I love the breakdown of the subs. I am a musical sub guy first. I got my Velydyne DD 10 right before the new JL's came out. I wish I could go back in time. It just does not integrate well anymore.
OH man I had a DD12 as well. GREAT old sub.
I’m planing to get dual svs sb16 for my theater, what you think
I think they kick ass and you will love it.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV I’m day two with my purchase, I’m running the svs sb16 on the anthem mrx1140. We did all the room correction and setting. Subs sound awesome but the only issue I’m having with them is that they are not picking any bass on TH-cam content like music video, movie trailers, and so forth. My recent episode evolution subs picked up all the bass from TH-cam using same setup on the receiver. Heck my wireless Sony sub on soundbar get bass from TH-cam. Is there something I need to set up or doing wrong if not this will be the only drawback I have with them.
Out of those 3, JL is always going to be the choice.
Fathom is one of the best I’ve heard for performance to size. JTR not covered is probably the most violent I’ve heard.
I own fathom 113x2 myself. I agree
*Starts to huff and puff at title
*reads description
*slowly calms down and pats (owned brand not included in vid)
If you like what you own....it's all that matters.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV one would think that...but then again, I assume you had to put that disclaimer in your description for a reason.
Stupidity is the reason....lol. It's a video on subs....lmao. It's not saving children. People need a hobby. Or worse...
Im torn between rhe Rel T7x and the JL Audio Dominion D110. Which one offers the best bang for the buck? Looking to use it with Rock Music and some Movies. Thanks
7 for music only but the D110 is still fast but also will go lower.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV which one wpuld you choose if you could only have 1?
Always JL for me.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV Thanks😁👍
Which do you recommend 2 smaller subs vs 1 larger sub? I have heard opposing opinions regarding this.
Tough one..I'd say one large one....then buy another so you ahve two large ...later. Start with a plan to finish off properly.
Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate your experience on this subject.@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV
My concern with running the REL from speaker-level inputs would be you are amplifying again any noise introduced from the first amplification. My understanding however is we may be less sensitive to it at the lower frequencies.@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV
I don't hear that at all.
Hi I have Polk S55 basic tower speakers in stereo and I use 50% music and 50% movies. I would like to add a subwoofer. Would you recommend the SVS SB 2000 pro or the REL T/7x?
Nice sealed SVS...4000 if you can. 2000 is nice too...bigger amp than the 1000. T7 is probably too small for anyting that's not music.
Thank you. My room is 1500 cubic feet (16m²). I think there SVS 4000 would be too big and powerful.@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV
Thought I answered this. no I think if you like to feel bass it's perfect. If you want more musical get a Sealed 3000
What about jtr and perlisen
I don't sell them so I don't talk about them. I am sure they are both great.
SVS sealed sub is the best bang for buck. No one can achieve more at the same price.
I wouldn't disagree that they are high value. We love them and sell them every day.
Games pc which best strong bass? Svs or JL?
Both are great. SVS will be louder and more boomy if that’s what you want.
how do you hook up a JL sub to a Class A fully balanced int amp that doesn't have a sub out...doesn't have pre out either...only a record out and if thats used as low level or LFE...then the amp volume controls don't control sub volume...i have to manually adjust the sub volume seperatetly in sub...?...high level made my rel hum when nothing was being played...Never had this oroblem with rel on other intigraded amps...at this point i'm just going to get a BBC style speaker with big bass driver...maybe Spendor🤪
Rel is really the only right way ...but I'd call them and ask why it hums. They do deal with that a lot and have some tricis usually to deal with Ground issues etc. They are pretty helpful.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV
Spoke with Ben at Rel several times...thought we had it solved nope...the only way with no hum was hooking it ap to speaker outs on back of amp...can never put negative on opisite binding post because it is fully balanced...Ben said even though I had no hum going straight off the right or left + - that it could damage the Rel...because balanced have power even coming out the negative post...oh well...Since I have changed my system and using Spendor with a 13" (330mm) doped Bextrene-cone woofer...now I don't need a sub😁
Hi David, thank you for your informative subs overview. I have a Pass INT-25 integrated amplifier (no line level or subwoofer outputs) and PureAudioProject open baffle Trio 15 Classic Voxativ PiFe’s (which reach into the low 30Hz) with their 15” woofers. Would you care to recommend a subwoofer pair compatible, reasonably easy to integrate, to add some low organ pedal power and fullness to mid to upper bass….leaning more towards the musicality range with no interest in home theater. The REL Carbons or JL Fathoms are beyond budget although I could consider REL S or JL E. Thank you in advance!
This one is tougher because of how low yours go now. The REL would have been my choice for sure other than the fact that I am not comfortable with how low they actually go in comparison to how low they say they go. The JL will do it though. I'd try an Esub112. Bargain sub for the money.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV David, thank you for your response. This would then be using the E 112’s high level connection, correct? Does the design of the E 112 allow for high level connection for a stereo pair…I assume left channel wires to left sub’s high level connections and then same with right, correct? What type of connecting wire and terminations are used? Thank you again….
@@markhershberger9477 There is high level connections on the E series. enjoy
howz revel b1 subs performance
Revel makes good stuff. Nice Musical powerful sub for the money
How do u have ur fathoms connected sir
They are LFE in my house. I have a video on my system. One of my earlier ones.
How do the 13.5 in wall Fathom subs compare to your 13.5 boxes? My theater is 14 x 23. Would two in front and two in back in walls be too much? I’d like to hire you to consult if possible.
Email me through my site. I like all the REL. I think in the lower end stuff the SVS is more bang for the buck. No pun intended. And no such thing as too many subs 😀
Hi I hope you can give me some advice sir. I have klipch rp-8000f11 fronts with a klipch rp- 600m 11 bookshelf rears and 4 klipch ceiling speakers I’m looking to replace a rythmic 15 sub with two new ones my budget is around 3,000. My room is a living room,kitchen and dining room all combined. Really want the subs to be able to handle music,tv, and movies any suggestions would be very much appreciated sir! Oh forget klipch rp-504c 11 center lol
First what did you like...or dislike about your old sub?
My previous house had a smaller square living room and it sounded good but didn’t have that punch I wanted listening to concert dvds
Bye the way I live in Tennessee now a town about 5,000 people and I think I’m the expert lol
@@bubba634634 JL Audio Esub110. clean but powerful. Can do 2. Huge bargain sub.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVcan I buy them from you?
Always fun to see a shootout, but I feel you are giving som really misleading advice as well. A ported sub is NOT less musical than a sealed one, technically it is really the opposite because of lower levels of distortion. Some people argue that more group delay makes ported sub worse but there is not too much evidence to support this. Also, almost all speakers are ported and some are pretty musical I would say....
I totally disagree about "buy yourself out of a problem". Bigger drivers and bigger enclosures are always better when it comes to bass. But more money is better(usually) at a give size. My point is that a big inexpensive could outperform at small expensive sub on most parameters. However it does occupy a fair bit of real estate and might not be welcome.
However there is much more difficult to setup a big and/or ported subwoofer in a small room, the reason many people think sealed subs are more musical.
I do agree JL are about as good as you can make a allround sub, if you can afford enough of them. Also SVSs bigger models are really good. But if you set them, or REL if you like, up against the ported JBL HDI 1200P and they will all struggle on "musicality". Calibrated lots of all, even up to a pair of Gothams.
I sell audio myself and a pro tip in any price range is to have someone who knows what they do set it up correctly. A good tuning based on measurements and someone with the knowledge to analyse them correctly. It will make the world of difference, even if your amp/receiver has build in roomcorrection it can be "tuned" further by a professional.
Sorry in advance for any bad english. :)
We all have our opinions...this is mine. Also most share my opinion even that build subs...JL and REL....sealed...for that reason. You can think what you want. So can I..and so can they.
Most tuning makes you turn off the bigger subs to run correctly in my experience so I calibrate them manually. Also it’s not misleading. That’s why SVS makes sealed and ported. Ported subs no matter what you do sound more boomy than sealed. Less bass from sealed unless you buy the problem out. It’s a fact. I like ported subs. I had two Klipsch THX passive subs for many years. Loved them. They just sound different with a port.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV You are free to have your own opinion, but this is just factually wrong. I can agree it is more difficult to set up a ported sub in a lot of rooms due to tuning of the sub and geometry of the room if you don't know what you do, ie most customers. But if you have the skill a ported sub will, like for like, outperform the sealed box. The only way to buy yourself out of the problem is more units/moving area, but then the space issue is there.
SVS makes ported, sealed and passive radiator subs because of different size for different customers. The quality is the same within the series. It is not for everyone to have a dog house in the living room. If you remember when they started it was all ported. Also, REL use a lot of passive radiator, basically the same as a ported box if done right.
As stated before, if ported subs are not musical then why are most speakers (even high end) ported?
@@brucecarter6205 not to be rude but when you say “your advice”…Just wondering what makes anyone on here think they should listen to you or take your advice. Do you have some credentials you forgot to post here. I guess we should listen to you instead of me who has been on the cover of CE pro twice has 25 years of experience and has been in 44 national magazines. Designed the home that won home of the year the last three years in a row. Let’s all take your advice. I think you should start your own channel and see what happens. Since we should all just be listening to you anyway. 🙄🙄
@@geirarnenilsen612 Sigh. Speakers are ported...because for the most part the drivers are 6.5 or 7"....so to get more bass they need a port. These comments crack me up. Yesterday I googled due to these crazy comments ported subs vs sealed...not that I don't already know. Every article ...crutchfield...three reviews....top 5 results back up everything I said. But i'm the idiot. lol. People just want to justify their less expensive choices. It's all good. Subs...touchy subject. I still stated facts.
I have 2 rel s812 with bassline blue cable on my focal sopra 2 and they sound incredible.
Great pairing!
Può essere inserito con delle proac 140 che già hanno una risposta dichiarata 25hz 30khz? Ha senso nell ascolto dei vinili la cui registrazione n9n scende al di sotto dei 50hz? Io lo utilizzerei 100% musica in una stanza di 18mq, con amplificatore ma6300, proac studio 140 e giradischi technics sl1200 mk2
I don't speak this language sorry.
Can it be inserted with proac 140s which already have a declared response of 25hz 30khz? Does it make sense to listen to vinyl whose recording does not drop below 50Hz? I would use it 100% for music in an 18m2 room, with ma6300 amplifier, proac studio 140 and technics sl1200 mk2 turntable
Never in home but on the road. Nothing comes close to the JL>
Never in home? They have led the category since they started in home. They lead both…
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV I think he means that he's never tried them as otherwise the comment makes zero sense.
@@roofpizza1250 I hope that's what it meant lol. Never tried it at home...sure. But yes home...and car. at least IMO
How do you add a sub to the center channel?
REL....can put a sub on each CH...and as a company they think you should. : )
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVoh ok. I didn’t know that. My receiver only has two subwoofer outputs. I have the Onkyo TX-NR6100
It hooks up to the speaker output not the sub outputs....called high level or line level....they invented a cable they use and their subs come with it. You can add a sub on each speaker and blend it in with that speaker as a direct extension of that speaker.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAVis there a website that explains this in detail? I might give it a shot.
Their website talks about it quite a bit and even more in any of their manuals.
The only subs I've heard that can compete with JL Audio are the Martin Logan Dynamo series. The Dynamo 1100 (12") is perhaps more musical than the JL E series subs, but has nowhere near the low extension for movies. JL crushes SVS in my experience
Thanks for your feedback. All great subs.
5:04 did you mean speaker level?
Yes I did. Again not edited. LIne level in speaker level out. Most know what I meant. Talking at a camera is new and not easy.
I have 2 JL Fathom 113 v2 and I love them. I don't think you can better them anywhere remotely close to their price!
Same as me...and nothing better.
@@brucecarter6205 we’re crazy then “LOL” along with most high end shops.
I am honest...and the best sounding subs absolutely are in shops....and in every high end system I see on IG...JL...Rel....sometimes SVS...$200K listening systems....I NEVER see that direct to consumer stuff. agree to disagree. If Perlisten was best...I'd have them. I can get whatever I want. you do you
@@brucecarter6205 my subs have absolutely no trouble going below 20 not that it matters because you don’t hear below that anyway. Also, those other subs are direct to consumer, so why would I care about them at all? They are far from the pinnacle. That’s why they go direct to consumer. They don’t have the experience the money for RND to build the pinnacle of anything. They’re just for people that don’t have the money for the good stuff simple as that.
I am not on here talking to Hobbyists. I don't sell direct to consumer brands...why would I talk about them or care about their limited experience building subs and equipment with no money for true R&D. Pass@@brucecarter6205
rythmik fvx12 It's supposed to be good for movies and music
No experience with them. Looks like good theater stuff for a budget.
Just bought this to pair with klipsch 8000f ii and Sony STR AZ5000es
Ascendo subs then. ?.
They are good...not better than JL or Perlisten. Pro Audio etc.
Untreated room...
Most rooms are untreated rooms....
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV Seems like a weird comment. Most of your comments say you sell high end but here you say most rooms are not treated. Anyone buying high end would have a treated room no? Otherwise what is the point given diminishing returns of gear?
@@MrWookie1981 Not weird. Just from a person that actually sells and designs. I am telling you that most people...most..have a budget and they have things they already want etc. You can only fight so much. So the room treatments are later...or left off. We don't sell garbage treatments like people buy online. We sell full acoustic packages for those that want it. When done right...it can double a persons budget. You don't fight that battle...I do. So it's not weird...not to me. You can only right so much when trying to sell to a client. Again...Pro vs user insight.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV I know I am just a user but I have looked at your website. None of the portfolio pics show any acoustic treatment in mcmansion "theaters" with speakers pushed back right against the wall or worse the corners. The website has no treatments in the product offerings which shows how much it is valued to the company. It seems pushing the most expensive equipment possible to customers instead of pushing the best listening experience is the business model. It hurts to know how much money some people have dropped on this equipment and will never know how good it can actually sound.
I am telling you I am in sales. people as a whole don't care about it. Clients have an idea of what they want. I am not arguing with them to get cheaper speakers to put up acoustics and explain to their wife why that cost was there. It's not realistic. That's what I mean when I say you a user. Techy users...do stuff like that. Gen Pop.....absolutely does not. they want what they researched and want. They will get it from me or someone else. I do acoustics when the job requires it. Also there are many jobs on my website with acoustics. All behind fabric in high end jobs that the client wanted it.
I have a JL TW3 in my Land Cruiser and a Rel S3 in my home for music and theater.
Nice stuff
Great video, also liked the screen video as well. I am unable to locate your home tour video. Can you share a link.
Also, I have 2 Rel home theater 12’s they are great, would like them to dip a little lower. I had 2 t9i and for theater the 12’s work better in my 15x18 room. So good for the price.
th-cam.com/video/7cnzwM6zeMo/w-d-xo.html. enjoy
Hi do you just use the high level cable with the rel subwoofers, and not the lfe cable , I assume if you used 1 sub for your left and right channel and 1 sub for the centre, and had a 3rd sub using the lfe for all the other speakers , so in theory the fronts and centre you would calibrate as large , and using the 3rd sub with the lfe cable and set your speakers to the relevant crossovers , hope this makes sense 🤔
I set all to small so I can cut them off at 40hz. Which makes them large… but not more than they can do. I will at times run an LFE to one or two as well for low bass. Turned way down on the dial.
Rythmik??
No experience with them. Looks like good theater stuff for a budget.
@@TheaterAdvice_FCAV You really need to check them out. They have servo amps that can be dialed in to be tight and super fast for music, or room filling for home theater. Underrated to say the least.
I def will thanks