Who’s to Blame for the Pistons Lack of Success? | The Mismatch | The Ringer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Chris Vernon discuss why the Detroit Pistons are not finding success as they currently sit last in the Eastern Conference.
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"This Killian Hayes thing has to stop... this is ridiculous. Why? Becuz Jaden Ivey is ALIVE!"
😅😂🤣
He’s still defending Jillian Hayes hahaha
You dont know basketball Killian dont make layups dont drive the lane other teams guards are taking us to hole why yall cant see yhis ivey make lay ups hes not a real jump shots no floaters no we want lay up we could of kept saban lee he could drive the ball
Also yall podcaster you cant judge the team until all the player are healty!!😮
Reminder: KOC claimed that Killian Hayes was the best player in the 2020 draft. Note that it's a class that had Anthony Edwards, Lamelo Ball, Tyrese Maxey and Desmond Bane.
Yikes
@@MK3504 There was a pandemic of bad NBA commentary happening simultaneously.
As a Piston fan you guys are right. The organization is robbing the fans of seeing these exciting talents on the floor together. Monty Williams lineups have been atrocious. The most frustrating thing isn't the losing it the fact that it doesn't have to be this way there is talent on the team but Monty won't change to a lineup that fits the current NBA and eventually fans are going to tune out.
Monty don’t care. He’s only there for the money
My hometown team has been killing the city's love for the team since they took Stanley Johnson over Devin Booker in the 2015 draft.
First, they have way too many bigs; three of whom do the same shit with differing levels of efficiency, Duren being the best of the bunch. Second, and more importantly, Killian Hayes should not be playing ahead of Jaden Ivey. The only person Ivey should be in a conflict for minutes with is Sasser. Their rotation when everyone is healthy should be Cade, Thompson, Bogdanovic, Stewart and Duren; Ivey as their 6th man with Sasser, Burks, and Bagley rounding out their rotation.
Here's how you salvage this mess:
Monte Morris was signed to be their insurance at point guard, so send Killian Hayes to the Spurs, who only need a point guard to defend and to run their half court offense; they're playing Sochan, a power forward, at the point for God's sake.
Next, send Wiseman to the Grizzles, they're so desperate for size that they signed Bismack Biyombo fresh from 24 Hour Fitness to be their starting center.. Plus Wiseman is from Tennessee and played high school and college ball in Memphis. This season is a wash for the Grizzlies, so they can develop Wiseman with no expectations.
Joe Harris is on this team to shoot 3's and he's shooting 31%. Waivers were invented for players like him. His 13 minutes a game can go to Isiah Livers.
Most importantly, IMMEDIATELY HIRE former all star turned shooting coach Mark Price to work with Cade on his jump shot. He helped a young Klay Thompson to quicken his release, he remade Joe Johnson's jump shot in Atlanta, and most recently was the shooting coach for the Nuggets, hired specifically to work with Porter Jr and Murray. Cade won't become a star until he can knock down shots out of the pick and roll.
Beautiful. Pistons need this guy as President of Basketball Operations to turn this sinking ship around.
Cool plan, Cade is up for an extension this summer and that’s the soonest he can break down and rebuild his shot. So if the Pistons want to actually see the results of his hypothetically improved shot they need to either extend him first or let him become a RFA and let someone else set his market.
@HoodedNinj4 They'll extend him; he was the number one pick in the draft, and unless you're Anthony Bennet or Michael Olowakndi, the team that drafted you isn't letting you walk until their sure of what type of player you can or, more importantly, can not be. Like the Wolves did with Wiggins.
Agree with just about all of this
This is definitely one of those situations where the GM needs to trade the player (Killian) so the coach can't play him. Idk what hold Killian has over Monty.
The Stanley pick was actually when I stopped caring -- I wanted Justise -- but the Booker thing is unfair. *No one* was saying the backup SG on Kentucky was gonna be All-NBA first team and better than KAT. And we had KCP at SG already. Sorry but that is pure hindsight. You might as well talk about Jokic too
Now Kennard over Mitchell and Hayes over Haliburton I'll give you. Those were the guys I wanted at thise spots on draft night.
But at least they have nailed it the last three years after 15 years of mostly horrendous drafts. Now let's hope they don't spoil the broth.
@michaelahurt Booker went 13th despite not being a starter at Kentucky because because he had a definitive NBA trait; he could shoot. Stanley Johnson was just an athlete. KCP was the Pistons starting 2 guard and while he was solid, he wasn't seen as a building block. Booker could have developed behind him and when he was ready, taken over as the Pistons backcourt mainstay. With the gift of hindsight management would have undoubtedly fucked up the roster construction around him, but they would have at least had him.
Forget about Mitchell and Haliburton for a minute, they still could have had Bam or Jarrett Allen in the Kenard draft and they could have had Maxey or Jaden McDaniels in the Hayes draft. That's two all star centers, a soon to be all star guard and a first team all nba defense wing who are playing for someone else.
It's like Pistons management just has a steadfast plan to draft high and collect reclamation projects from other teams. They're not building anything other than a collection of formerly-lauded prospects. Maybe eventually they spend long enough in the lottery that they actually put something together but I could just as easily see players not wanting to stick around Detroit if the ownership/management can't make a decent effort, and then nothing will ever get built.
They tore it down to the studs to get a guy like Cade. Then he got hurt. Now he's basically in year two.
Cade, Ivey, Ausar, TBD, Duren is a plan. Thise guys make sense together. Surrounding the young guys with vets is a plan. (Unfortunately they are all injured.)
Its not like Philly drafting centers three straight years. They are trying to build a cohesive team that fits together.
As far as the reclamation projects, when Brooklyn did that everyone thought it was the smartest thing. Just because it hasn't worked doesn't mean its a bad idea. Detroit of all teams knows exactly how valuable discarded and written off lottery picks can be because they won a title with three if them (Chauncey, Rip, Sheed)
I think it's more what KOC said; Monty's rotations -- and his devotion to Killian Hayes -- make no sense.
@@michaelahurt The fact that you’re comparing what the pistons are doing to ANYONE shows me you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
The pistons drafting 3 point guards in three straight drafts is EXACTLY like the 6ers drafting 3 centers. They thought okafor and embied could play together. Just like weavers stupid ass thought Hayes and Cade could play together when their skill sets are polar opposites.
Theres a difference between picking up young guys or older guys who can shoot and picking up guys who had shots that blew it in spectacular fashion or just can’t shoot and arnt good nba players. No one hated brooklyns moves because they made sense. Young shooters. shooters in general. What free agent moves has weaver made that make sense? Kevin Knox? Okafor? None of them have made sense at all.
Case ivy asur tdb Duren doesn’t make this team a threat because if that is his plan and thats a big IF considering how clear it is to everyone else aside from you that weave doesn’t actually have a plan that’s the only thing he has planned. He has no idea what to do with the bench, no idea how to properly use expiring contracts to load up on GOOD draft capital (how much dead cap did he take on to get ZERO picks for Zaire and dedman and…) not to mention the fact that when it comes to evaluating proper NBA talent for players and/or picks. I mean I’m sure someone like you actually thought trading diq for wiseman was a slam dunk trade!
Bottom line you really shouldn’t be talking about things you don’t understand because people like you are single handedly ruining sports. Go talk about analytics or something you virgin.
They looked completely different as soon as Duren got injured. Add the other injuries to all of their vets, and it made them even worse. They need Bojan and Duren healthy badly and more Ivey minutes.
Shout out to the Chicago bulls, who, when losing to the Pistons early in the season had everybody talking about how the Pistons were going to be good this year.
This is how dizzyingly and dysfunctionally bad Chicago is, they screw up the view on other teams too
Why is Verno yelling at me?
He reminds me of Tom Hardy's "Ronnie Kray" in the movie Legend
Cade is good, not just "superstar that will will the team to actual wins and be truly competitive" good. He is basically the same player since his rookie season. Decent but not really bad.
With the injury/rehab taking him out for a year, he probably hasn't had much time to work on actually imrpovimg his game vs just getting back to 100%.
If he makes a jump this season like he did in his rookie season, he'll be looking like a strong #1 again.
@@J-HueHe's been inefficient since college. He was just very overhyped. I think people saw his mature game, 7 plus wingspan, and height and didn't pay attention to the fact he couldn't even get to the rim at will in college. He's a good player and can contribute to winning basketball but he's not a number 1.
We vastly overrated Monty Williams as a head coach
I didn't.
In the past I found it hilarious when people compared Halliburton to killian and Cade. I’m like I’ll trade those 2 for Halliburton. I’ll get a superstar for bench players 😂
The PG issue could've been resolved if theyd draft Haliburton over Hayes
No one ever said or thought “break it up” about Cade and Killian Hayes would be a thing but here we are ..
Cade shoots 43% on Open 3s ... research it
Can we take a minute to appreciate the difference between the Detroit and Philly approach and the OKC approach to rebuilding?
Remember KOC had Killian Hayes as his #1 draft pick during that year off course he's going to defend his player.
I'm German and I watched this guy playing in Ulm in the German League sabotaging his team's games because he was a turnover machine and a terrible decision-maker. Then heard the speculation of him becoming an NBA lottery pick. From the vey first second I thought that his talent was totally overrated. Good for him that he dialed back a little on those turnovers but he's still a non-factor at best when it comes to winning basketball games. What a preventable waste of a draft pick.
Cade is part of the problem. Killian has better shooting splits than him and Cade is a TO machine. Pistons don't have a lot of talent period and we shouldn't expect them to be a playoff team, but your #1 pick needs to be better.
You clearly haven't watched them.
I have my issues with Cade trying to play hero ball too much -- to the point I'm actually becoming concerned -- but Killian is probably the worst scorer of every starter in the NBA. The fact he's still this bad in year 4 is unfathomable.
Cade's turnovers also make more sense when you contextualize it with his time of possession and workload. He definitely needs to clean some stuff up, but for reference, he's at an 18% turnover rate. LeBron is 18. Garland is 23. Sabonis is 19. Giddey is 18. Paolo is 17.
As a Spurs fan give us Cade we need a player like him. We will give you 2 unprotected top 10 picks and Sochan.
Half of you commenting are not watching the games Cade is not the problem
Verno. if you are frustrated, emagine how us Pistons fan feel.... we already can't stand Monty Williams... He's ruining Jaden Ivey's development.. we've known Killian sucks for 3 years now..ENOUGH with the Kilian stuff... Cade needs help he's being tripple teamed on every play!
You look at Detroit’s roster with guys like Bagley, Wiseman, Knox - they are still in massive tank mode. Which is the smart thing to do even though it looks pretty bad now.
Knox is actually playing well
I don't know how you can claim that a team in year 5 of a rebuild is tanking 12 games into the season. They're just a combination of bad and injured. It's really pathetic from management that they haven't even made progress after this many years of being in the lottery. Year 5 and they're dead last! That's insane!
@@3mrwright If you only glance at his numbers, yea.
Watching him play he's the same dude he was in NY.
@@jhank0cean I watch every Piston game. Not sure how he played in NY. The talent on the team matters...and with all the injuries on this team, his shooting is helpful.
Bro they have comparable talent with Houston and they have been lightning it up in the league! No excuses!
Ridiculous if you think Ausar is better than Cade
Their lack of pure shooters, and turn overs
exactly. Ivey does need to be starting. or at least monty needs to experiment with him starting. hell it aint working with killian starting so why not? They need to run set plays more often, get the ball moving more. right now too many guys standing around at the 3 doing nothing. very boring to watch. Duren and ausar together is key. too bad all the injuries. but that blown defensive play letting mobley waltz in should be last straw in current mess. something gonna happen soon.
Dont forget when monty gets mad at someone he just stops communicating. Probably already happened 😂
As a warriors fan, how yall feel about Monty is how I feel about Kerr. Playing Corey Joseph more than moody and kuminga, absolute insanity.
Cade isn't near as good as all the NBA heads make him out to be
Cade is good, but he isn't a superstar yet. But all the other teams treat him as one. The coaches are not putting him in the best situations.
He can't even scratch being good when he's only played 88 games in his 3 year career. The lack of reps is a huge setback especially when he's looked to be the playmaker with good shot creation skills. The rest of the lineup doesn't have guys who are as good getting consistent shot creation opportunities with playmaking especially when teams opposing just put the clamps down. Ivey certainly ain't it even though his speed would translate in the open court.
He doesn't play hard enough at all!!
Agreed. He is ok
The amount of layups he just missed. Not ok, he sucks. He don't want to be here. Id love to see a move.
As soon as the news dropped of Monty in Det I said “They will regret this in a year or two”. Monty has never been a good coach.
The trouble with having a lot of high draft picks and drafting a lot of college superstars is that there is only one basketball and not everyone will get touches or the minutes.
While Ivey is fun to watch, they only won 17 games last year, and their defense was atrocious. This year they are much better on defense and competitively in Games. I do think they need to shake up the young guys, as there is a log jam at guard.
Monty Williams is actually a very overwhelming coach
I agree as an organization they could of optimized this season better but when Cade is 22 duren is 20 Ivey is 22 Ausar is 22 Sasser is arguable are second best scoring option and he is 23 coming off the bench Killian is 22.. Bojan would of helped a lot if he was healthy but when you look at the roster there’s no version you can expect them to be good.. but also you can’t expect a team to just jump into contention. You have to continue to develop them and then eventually go after another star entering the prime of their career in like two years.. it’s still too early with this core to entice anyone yet.
Duren is clearly the best player on the team
I made a joke over the summer that Ivey would be benched because Monty doesn't think he's good enough for his daughter. Now I'm starting to wonder...
They can't evaluate talent. It's not an aberration, it's an organizational problem. Cade doesn't project as a real NBA star at all - too inefficient, too slow, too turnover prone. His counting stats are merely a byproduct of opportunity - they have little to no effect on winning. Their other young players haven't panned out either. Hopefully Thompson breaks that trend, but I'd take everything that happens on such an awful team with a grain of salt. The bar is so low, it's quite sad.
To be fair thats what people said about Devin Booker 6-7 years ago. If you put his much on a 22 year old on an awful team its going to look ugly unless that 22 year old is LeBron James.
Even during the draft process Cade was described as the most valuable *type* of player, but there was always a chance he was more Gordon Hayward than Luka Doncic. But he was the only guy in that draft who even remotely profiled as a primary. And if he wasn't he was versatile enough to play 1-3 next to anyone.
Regardless Cade was the consensus #1 pick so if they can't evaluate talent, neither can anyone else. And Ivey was also a chalk pick. The two times they went off-book was Duren and Ausar and those were home runs.
Now Killian over Haliburton I'll give you -- I desperately wanted Hali -- but the other four have all been the right pick. You can only draft who is available.
@@zalemdreams Now you're just being ridiculous. A sixth man?
Booker was 53% TS (but 84% FT and 61% of his twos and 23% of his threes unassisted) with a 16% ast rate and 1.16 Ast:TO ratio. Cade is 50% (but 85% FT and 77% of his twos and 29% of his threes are unassisted) with a 30% ast rate and 1.55 Ast:TO ratio. It's really not very different except Cade is way further along as a creator.
The only other option at #1 was Mobley. But that's easy to say when you know all the answers to the test and which guys are gonna be stars.
Now if they'd taken Haliburton maybe you do take Mobley. The only other one you could argue is Ivey over Jalen Williams but Ivey still has a higher ceiling because of his athleticism. Duren and Ausar are unassailable picks. That's one strikeout, 2 home runs and 2 doubles. That's not actually bad compared to other FO. It's only bad compared to perfection.
Now pre Troy Weaver, yes, it was an accumulation of bad decisions year after year after year after year. Starting with Darko. Letting go of second round finds like Middleton, Bruce Brown and Dinwiddie. The awful drafts. The even worse FA signings.
But you can't put that on this FO.
***
If they gave up anything for Bagley or Wiseman or Knox then I'd agree but they didn't. This is like saying you shouldn't scratch off a lottery ticket you picked up off the ground because it probably won't win
@@michaelahurt First of all, the league-average TS% has improved since Booker's rookie season, so you have to look at league-adjusted figures and not compare values in a vacuum. Booker was reasonably/lightly inefficient compared to league-average to start his career. Cade is historically inefficient relative to league-average for a player with his usage. They're not close.
Cade's career has just started so the ink isn't dry, and FOs make mistakes in the draft all the time anyway (some more than others). But I think he may have been the wrong pick, and it compounds a long series of poor decisions in terms of talent evaluation. Whiffing on the #1 pick is a pretty big deal. If it proves to be the case, they will need to be held accountable. It needs to be weighed when you assess their tenure.
@@zalemdreams Fair point, but if you look closer at shooting by level the only real difference is three point shooting. (35% vs 30%) Which is why I included the difference in shot diet
My larger point is Booker's percentages lagged behind his reputation for years (he's still under 36% on threes for his career). So did Luka's. Tyrese Maxey shot 29.2% at Kentucky and 30.1% as a rookie.
Cade has only played 89 games. As you said, the ink isn't dry. It's still way too early to panic or say it was a bad pick given how much variance there is in three point shooting and that he still looks like a good shooter and he's 85% from the line. (His free throw rate is honestly more concerning than the shooting. His percentages from mid-range are fine, it really just looks like bad luck on threes.)
Yes, if he turns out to be Evan Turner it's a blown pick. But there's really no reason to think that right now. This isn't like Killian. Cade *looks* like he's good. And other players think he's good. The shots just don't go in yet. Which is true for almost all young players.
@@zalemdreams The turnover percentage is within a normal tolerance when you account for his age and usage. It's certainly not good, but we shouldn't overreact to a small sample when looking at 23-24. When you watch him it's not like he doesn't know what to do or where to go with the ball. A lot of his turnovers are him driving into traffic which I think is more about the team construction.
I do think he's overtasked and the scoring, shot generation and separation ability questions people had in the pre-draft process are still there. And I get what you mean about the passing. His vision isn't at quite the same level as guys like Luka and Jokic and Bird or even Ausar Thompson. He's what I call an encyclopedic passer (like LeBron and CP) where he knows all the reads and what to do in a given situation, but he's not going to see or take advantage of unexpected passes. (But that's still a level up from what I call the paint-by-numbers passers. Most wings really. Booker, Kawhi, Tatum, etc. They learn the different reads in specific actions and over time get better at picking the right one. It's not as ingrained as the encyclopedic guys.)
As to why people are high on him, because he has the outline of a high end primary option. He's 6'6". He's shown post up ability to punish mismatches. He knows where to go with the ball. He can actually make all the necessary passes. (Not something that should be overlooked.) He has good touch. He can mostly get where he wants with the ball. He has a *wide* variety of moves to generate shots ... Now everything needs to come together and, similar to Booker, his (relative) physical disadvantages mean he needs to generate shots with skill and craft. Maybe he does end up as a #2 -- like Booker and Murray -- or as "#1 option" on a loaded team a la Tatum or Chauncey Billups.
Certainly I don't think he's a generational player and you don't either. Although I think any rational person understands that.
Reminder that Monty Williams has a Coach of the Year award while Erik Spoelstra doesn't.
cade 1
ivey 2
ausar 3
killian backup
shouldnt this be a very nice young core guards rotation? i dont get why is this so difficult, at least this is what i imagined they would run before the season started, well now it doesnt look anything like it
It's because all of them are extremely young and don't know how to win?
When has a young Point Guard ever came into the league and knew how to win immediately?
The only exceptions ever are always generational players like Luka and LeBron.
@@jhank0cean I agree. PG is probably the hardest position for rookies & 2nd years.
Try Ivey at the pg, Cade is turnover machine on a team that already has turnover issues.
Surround Killian with shooting second unit and his numbers only get better.
@@jhank0cean wait who saying they need to win now? i only said that's very nice young guard rotation to develop upon, but i dont get why KOC kept saying they need to break them apart
Success? Who the hell has high expectations for detroit?
My own opinion is that I don't believe Monty Williams is the coach for the players the Pistons have, He took the job for the money which he admitted in the opening presser. Cade Cunningham is turning the ball over too much and is not very athletic. Tom Gores is not a good owner and has made some bad choices (SVG, etc.) Blake Griffin, and other bad choices. Ausar Thompson has been great and Jalen Duren does have the talent.
Paolo and Franz were getting doubled all last year, and the media were always lukewarm about him and Franz, lmao 🤣
what is there to break up? this team is full of young players
Koch really needs to stop pretending like killian hayes is any kind of good basketball player, I get no one likes to be wrong but he's very obviously not an NBA caliber guard.
Him doubling down at year 4 with very little no to progress in hayes overall development is just sad at this point.
You got it wrong man all the best analysts do from time to time all this is doing is making you look like you don't know what you're talking about.
Monte Williams is obviously out of his league. He can’t coach up young talent.
I really like Sasser. I like him better than Ivey personally. But even though i have that opinion, what Monty is doing to Ivey is not good.
I would run the linup as follows:
Cade 35 minutes/Sasser 13
Sasser 20 minutes/Ivey 26
Ausar 34 minutes/Burks 16
Bojan 32 minutes/Stewart 16
Duren 33 minutes/Wiseman 15
I would desperately be trying to trade: Bagley, Ivey, Harris, Morris, Hayes, Wiseman, Stewart. Not a fan of any if those players. I like Morris but he might garner decent value as a backup 1/2 guard for a competing playoff team. I would think you could get 2 or 3 second round picks for him even if he is an expiring.
Do you think they are trying to maximize what they can get in a trade for killien?
Kevin O'Beardtrim
Honestly I'm done listening to people complain. Can we hear ideas about how to make it better? Maybe lineup changes or trades? Move Cade to SF and put Ivey in as PG? Trade for a big like Jonathon Isaac (doubtful), Vucevic, Claxton, Zubac or even Drummond? Hearing negative things all the time isn't helping.
I am not even a Pistons fan but i alreasy hate that Monty Williams for that specific team. I guarantee those players do not like him either. Already having another feud like he did with Ayton in Ivey is pretty insane. Dude might suck at D but he needs to be playing alot in order to get better. And you get better by making mistakes and learning through reps. Lots of reps. His rotations are also just whack. His fav players are all non shooters which by virtue is affecting Cade as defenses can float off their guys and sag into the lane with one man sticking like glue on Cade. Thats why his fg% is so trash.
Ivey is playing plenty, he just still can't guard you.
@@scottwickett1273so and Killian can and can't score from a ft by the rim. Go cry about killian going to china.
Wdym breaking up??? No one wants these guys
Why does Chris look like Jacob Sartorious
They need to move at least 3 of those guys. Ivey, and or Hayes, bogdonavic and Wiseman. Sasser looks like a quality bench guy and bagley has been better but not starter quality. Hayes needs to go sit behind a vet somewhere
Cade and Isaiah Stewart are the oldest guys in the starting 5 at age 22..
Stop it.
The Pistons are 3 years away.
Just chill.........😒
Three years away after 3.5 years of tanking their faces off? That would truly be unprecedented, and no GM has ever survived anything of the sort.
I put it on Troy Monty and Injuries
Please get the so called GM, Troy Weaver out of here. This all falls on him. He has absolutely no clue of what he’s doing smh. 4 years of this crap with him as GM
For real its driving me crazy
Whoa they look like 2 normal dudes. I listened on the podcast and figured they were old guys lol.
Is Cade actually good? His advanced stats are really bad and he is highly inefficient.
No
Yes
@newrimhoops387 Shai never had bad advanced stats like Cade.
Shai has always been an elite defender and finisher.
Cade is decent but he's not athletic, fast, or a good shoot creator.
Shai had a better complimenting roster around him in 2018-19? When the best player on the team was Tobias Harris? Oh sorry no you meant the 2020-21 OKC where 34 year old Al Horford was the 2nd best player on the team. Or maybe you meant the 2021-22 OKC thunder where a rookie Josh Giddy was the 2nd best player on the team. Ahh I understand now. @newrimhoops387
He has potential. He's had a rough start to his career so far with jnjury issues and already isn't that sthletic for an nba player.
He showed he coukd be a legit star once he caught his stride during his rookie season. He's been probably rehabbing and getting his game back more than anything over the past year.
It's too soon to call with him. If he stays healthy, we'll see what kind of player he can be.
Cade is overrated at this exact moment....how come ppl can't come to that realization
Let me ask you a question. Did the pistons look different when jalen duren was healthy for those firse few games? Hold that answer. If cade had a near 50/40/80 shooter on his wing (bojan) do the pistons look different? The answer to both is yes. The jaden ivey thing will sort itself out. Stop freaking out about that. If cade had 2 weapons on the court and possibly ivey being the 3rd offensive weapon would he be turning the ball over or missing so many shots thats hes fourced to take? I say no. We all need to take a step back and look at what the pistons are right now but see all the weapons that are missing. I didnt even mention possibly the best back up pg in the league in monte morris. Just pump the brakes
It all starts with Tom Gores. Since Mr. D passed away. This franchise has been a dumpster fire. Gores need to sell the team.
Detroit is two years away from being relevant. They have draft capital and moveable contracts. But their young core hasn't been together long enough to know what's what, as ALL of them, literally ALL of them, have been injured at one point or another. Hell. Even Bojan is hurt, and he's been a rock of consistency his entire career. Detroit can be patient. They don't know what they have yet. It'll take at least the rest of the season to figure that out, if not into next season, when they either dangle a top 5 draft pick for a young star ala Scottie Barnes, or they continue the youth movement with a top pick, and add more draft capital by moving Burks, Harris and/or Bojan.
They are trash and will be playing in an empty gym by then. Gotta fire the GM or else nothing good can ever happen.
Who is drafting? That is who's to blame. They are picking ok, but the always have a crappy team and should be making amazing picks with their order.
The draft picks have been good. Cade, Ausar, Duren, and Ivey are potentially a great core. The coach's decision to sit Ivey who's the team's most efficient win scorer for Killian is the biggest head scratcher so far.
Start Ivey as soon as possible
What about Killian to the sixers? We need a backup
Yeah hows the bench shooting he probably would thrive there he just had like 20/7 against 76s.
I mean they used to have Isaiah Joe and he went 7 for 7 on 3FG a few games ago. It would on 'Brand' that he'd send resources to have Killian Hayes play in the bench when better talent that would have helped them is helping another team.
Is monty really a good coach?
Killian is either going to be 6 man of year, or like D lo next two years
D'Lo wasn't that much of a late bloomer and he came into the league at 19. His game had a low ceiling but he knew what he was good at then. Killian doesn't even have a go-to move in his development so far that he knows makes money for him.
I've said before hes D'Lo if D'Lo couldn't shoot
Although he's been less sticky the last 6-7 games.
@@t4d0W whats Cade go to move, no one has a go to move noob. Killian only 22 and plays wing which isnt his position lol
@@michaelahurt D Lo is 28 Killian is 22 plenty of time to shoot as good as him.
@@sean6741 He’s shown zero improvement in 4 years. At some point you’re just Ricky Rubio and FT% is never gonna translate
And Russell could always shoot.
This is The worst Coaching Job I Have Ever Seen In My History of Watching The NBA Far As A Coach Playing Talented Player. Monty Williams Is Doing A Horrible Job. Just Starting Ivey Over Killian Wins You at least half of the games you lost. That’s including the injuries. Ime Udoka Should have been the move.
Couldn’t get one cuz of his scandal. Our gm (Troy weaver) hired one his homeboys as an assistant gm, and he got caught in a similar scandal to Ime. So bringing him in was completely off limits to that FO
shouldve drafted jalen green! lmao cade is garbage
Cade is a bust, just call it what it is.
Exactly
You should tune into a Pistons game sometime this year lol
@@BaderAaron Yes, exactly. He's still awesome, he just has no help because the GM is a fucking clown.
You obviously don’t watch the pistons
@@jjj.3 Who the hell watches the Pistons?
Killian shoots with the wrong hand . I swear .
Run n Gun w the young team.
If Detroit wants to make a trade using their picks they gotta pay OKC lolllll
I'm a Pistons fan and I put blame on Adam Silver... The NBA lottery %'s are BS. Worst team has a 60% to pick #4 or #5, that makes no sense. We have the worst winning % in the NBA for 5 years and only one Top 4 in that time. We've dropped multiple spots in the lottery, 3 of the last 4 years for a net loss of -7 spots, only moved up one spot in 17 lotteries total. Something needs to change in the lottery starting with the %'s. Troy Weaver gets a fair share of blame as he put this team together, he's unlucky in the lottery, and he's finished no better than 3rd worst record in the league since taking over.
I agree. You should only fall one spot.
You blame the league even though you have had 3 top 5 picks in the last 3 years. I hate to break it to you but your team doesn't stink because you didn't get Wemby. Your team stinks because the whole organization stinks. Even if you had better lottery odds you would still stink. Wemby wouldn't have saved the pistons. You guys have stunk for how long and you have had what 2 good picks in the past 20 years? And one of those 2 picks was you got lucky on a guy in the second round? That's not on Adam Silver or the lottery odds.
To be fair we would have taken Ivey at 4 and I wanted Ausar more than Scoot, Amen or Cam anyway. (Though Miller would have been nice.)
The bigger issue is drafting poorly. Kennard over Mitchell and Bam was stupid in real time. And Haliburton was my -- and a lot people's -- favorite guy in the entire draft when we took Killian
Chris is painful to listen to
Cades good but he’s not great
They aren’t good. I never thought Cade was the future. Ivey should be the building block with Ausar, Jalen, Wiseman, and Bagley…. BUILD AROUND JADEN IVEY
Tell me you've never watched Ivey play without telling me you've never watched Ivey play.
wiseman lol
@scottwickett1273 Build around "IVEY" is correct and Ausar and Duran the Talent is there . Talk about you watching cade can't take over a game to lift his team to a win he is overrated you have been watching that have you .Isiah Thomas at 6'1 in his 1st and 2nd and 3rd year was a true superstar that took over games in the 4th quarter look at the tape and the games he won speak for themselves.Cade cunningham at what 6'8 is a bust an role player no way should be built around his record of losses speak for themselves.The pistons built around Isiah Thomas at 6'1 the rest is history Thank You .
Monty
This fanboy doesn’t watch the pistons fr
Ivey is bbq chicken on defense and a tov machine
Ivey needs more minutes!!..oh wait Killian looking nice all along
Break it up? These guys have barely played together 😂
Break it up? 😂 they’re bad but young let em grow
They are completely and totally fucked until they fire the GM.
Glad I'm a thunder fan lol 😂
This is why I didnt want Monty Williams
Monty is the problem,not the team
Drafted Killian as a pg, cool now lets put him in the corner and take the ball out of his hands that will make him better? Lol Killian, Morris, probably Sasser and Ivey can all do a better job at running point than Cade. Too many point guards on this team and the worst one leads the league in turnovers. Smh
First, Killian can't play. He should have been traded when they got Morris
But its not 1990 where the PG just brings the ball up the floor and waits for someone to get open. You just have a primary facilitator now.
And Cade has BY FAR the best combination of scoring, playmaking and size of that group. Ivey can generate as many advantages but his vision isn't nearly as good. Sasser and Hayes; just no. Those are backup PG who can't even remotely pressure the rim and have to settle for floaters.
Now if you want say put less on Cade's plate, I actually agree. I'd like to see more of a flowing, multi ball handler offense. But when you are developing guys by just throwing them into the fire, it gets pretty ugly. Go back and look at Booker thise first theee years. His TO rate is 18%. That's not good obviously, but even Luka is around 4.5 TO. Thats just what happens when one guy vas the ball that much
@@michaelahurt first Killian can play. Rubio, Mike Conley all had long careers. Killian is only 22 and will have at least as good of a career as them. Haliburton struggled in Sac due to him not having the ball enough, bingo. Cade IS NOT A POINT GUARD. sorry to disappoint you
@@sean6741 Haliburton didn’t struggle in Sacramento. That’s like saying Maxey struggled in Philly until this year. They just excelled in a smaller roles
Killian can’t pressure defenses. He’s not fast enough to blow by people and he can’t score well enough to make teams bring a third defender.
I tried for three years. I said give him time. But he’s just not good. He’ll honestly be lucky if he’s in the NBA next year. Marcus Sasser is already better than him.
@@michaelahurt They didnt play him in the corner one year after drafting him like Killian. This is only his 3rd season first season not enough games. Sasser has only had 3 good games lol get real. You dont know what shooters surrounding Killian would look like. Oh and a contender or spurs will take him if this team continues to miss use him. Game over
@@sean6741 Sasser played four years in college. He wasn't born yesterday.
Killian has always been a bad shooter. We expected him to get better but it's just not happening. At least Sasser can make an open three.
You could put Klay, Steph and KD around him with Gobert rolling. Teams are gonna go under and make Killian shoot just like they do now. And he'll miss. Just like he does now.
It's very easy to guard someone if they can't make threes, can't drive past you and only shoot 40% from mid-range. He can only function as a second side creator for that reason. The point of running PnR is to bring a third defender but teams just aren't threatened enough by him to do that
Who’s this guy that keeps yelling?
They're trying to sabotage ivey. A man with detroit in his blood. Monty is sus. I dont like him
Ivey still can't guard you.
silas!
Stephen Silas
Who thought the pistons were gonna be good this year? These dudes are young.
They’re the worst itl. Everybody thought they would be better than that. Young or not, the team isn’t even competitive
@@lilkizxo7278 their ceiling was always the 13 seed
@@lovey019 I agree, but that’s unacceptable in the 4th year of a rebuild
Draymond and Joseph for Bagley and Hayes.
Detroit gets a leader, a point forward and they'd boost the best defense in league! Point minutes are opened up for Ivey, Sasser and Monte.
Warriors; Bagley could become a nice scoring option next to TJD or Looney. Hayes can learn under 2 of the greatest and come in for defense.
Killian needs to go he’s a chemistry killer Monty needs to be out of control of personnel
This has to be the worst and most inaccurate Pistons videos on TH-cam
Lavine for Ivey, Stewart and picks
That would be a disaster for the Pistons, even if you didn't include Stew!
Lmao people seriously think Lavine impacts winning?
He only impacts more losing,no defense and wake up he does not take over games himself to win he is no LeBron or Isiah Thomas or Kobe that says it is the 4th quarter I'm taking over superstar and defending cade is backwards he is a bust .Isiah Thomas at 6'1 in his 1st year and 2nd and most definitely in 3rd year was just unstoppable period and the rest is History , now that is a Piston superstar and why the pistons were winning tough games cade cunningham and lavine NEVER can be that superstar isiah thomas was just look at old games of Isiah Thomas the only player that reminds me of Isiah is Jaden Ivey and why he needs to be first .
Their making those beautiful uniforms look bad. Move Ivey to the 1 and put Cade in the corner. They need to devote 2 weeks of practice to PASSING, DRIBBLING and catching the damn ball. I've never seen a point guard turn the ball over like this, he keeps putting himself in bad situations.
Cade is overrated lmao
Cade is required to do quite literally everything for this team every night. Watch a Piston's 4th quarter and you'll see that nobody is willing to take the reigns, it's always Cade.
Nope this on Cade and coaching. Leads the league in turnovers and shoots horrible from 3. Move him to wing already
@@sean6741 he shoots 3s because literally no one else on the team can do it right now. Our 2 best shooters haven’t played a game. When he drives the lane he gets doubled and his options for a kick out are Killian Hayes, Marvin Bagley, and Isaiah Stewart.
@@BaderAaron he doesn't know how to pass as well as Killian. Killian wasnt drafted as a shooting guard part of this rotation problem, but him and Stew are shooting better from 3 than Cade!
Swear man this team has been mismanaged and somehow its the young players fault 😂😅
Williams for playing Hayes so much.
Calling BS on Ivey Verno. For every amazing play Ivey makes, he has stepped on the sideline 5x that. He makes junior high level basketball mistakes in crucial times. He has opportunities, he just can’t keep them because he’s too fast for his own good…especially on defense
That's why you let him play. He's never gonna fix the mistakes if he's not allowed to work through them.
There just aren't many guys in the NBA who can threaten defenses like him.
@@michaelahurt
Right. If this was an already elite team, you can bring a potential star along like Monty is because you can't have mistakes costing you games you may need for playoff positioning later. And you'd have a ton of wuality vets to coach him up everytime he gets pulled.
On a young team with no kind of title chances, the games aren't as important as the development of the young guys. That means that sometiems they'll won you games and sometimes they'll lose them. But you have to get them the on court time to learn.
This strategy from Monty seems out of place here.
I don’t disagree that he’s an offensive threat here. The “dislike” is that this team is performing far below expectations. Now we’re claiming it’s a lost season again and just let the young guys play. Well they did that last year. I was in the same mindset as y’all last year but now you’ve got Bojan, Morris, and Livers coming back. Ivey has to cut down on the stepping on the sidelines, missed switches, and get control of his body in specific situations or he will continue to lose minutes. I hope he can do that