Fallout's Combat Regression
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- This video covers Fallout's melee combat from Fallout 1 to Fallout 4. In an effort to predict what we can expect of Fallout 5, I have analyzed how melee gameplay has evolved throughout the games. Supplying references to the origins of these decisions to games that have shown how it can be done better.
#fallout #fallout4 #bethesda #fallout3 #fallout2 #falloutnewvegas
The real issue is that there's no reason to use melee in a world where 85% of opponents are using guns, and guns scale up to extreme levels of damage that outpace the best any melee weapons available, particularly on difficulty levels like Survival Mode in Fallout 4 where damage levels outpace health significantly. This requires a rethinking of the melee versus missile (guns) dynamic, by making characters have weaker grips on their guns.
I.E. if a character gets into melee with another, there should be an absurdly high chance that each melee hit disarms the character holding a gun that's hit with a melee attack in some way, shape or form. With a base simple disarm chance of something like 50% with the rate going up by 5% for each point of STR, and heavy attacks adding onto this by bringing in knockback, knock down, stuns and other effects (the general difference between blades causing bleeds and doing extra limb damage and blunt weapons causing more knock back and knock down is already present and solid enough).
The reason for this is to give both player and enemy a dynamic where, if a melee character closes the gap with a missile character, there's a high chance of the missile character losing their advantage in the fight as they'll quickly find themselves disarmed, which further grants a melee character extreme advantage, allowing them the ability to dominate in close quarters unless their opponent happens to be good at unarmed fighting (which is where this dynamic really shines as it grants unarmed combat a place in the gameplay loop as the "backup weapon" that characters will regularly resort to when disarmed in combat - and where this dynamic immediately makes an unarmed focused enemy faction viable). This whole dynamic changes melee from a nonsensical strategy to one where it at least makes sense tactically, while creating solid drama that's seen in movie fight scenes where two characters meet, knock the guns out of each other's hands, and having to resort to grappling and fisticuffs while moving toward the gun on the floor.
It also make melee weapons a good method for countering melee attackers if melee weapons themselves have a reduced disarm chance built in. So if you see a melee attacker rush you, and you don't think you'd be able to take them out before they connect, switching to a melee weapon and engaging in a melee duel with them would make much more sense tactically.
In general, the breakdown in the melee weapon categories should probably be: two-handers for groups (with a lot AoE attacks that hit multiple opponents to disrupt groups by sending them scrambling for their dropped guns) which make good melee openers to create openings for further melee, one-handed medium weapons for one-on-one duels to dispatch a single opponent quickly, and small one-handed weapons like knives being either for stealth attacks and as the alternative to unarmed combat (with perhaps something like switching to a knife automatically if a character is disarmed).
(an even more complex system would include things like a true grappling system that zooms in when characters engage in very close range attacks with fists or knives to allow for extremely dynamic duels, VATS targeting in melee allowing the player to plan out a route to charge opponents with rather than simply teleporting them as well as letting them choose different attack types for different types of disruption in VATS, as well as making it so that engaging an opponent in melee disrupts enemy AI for ranged attackers who stop trying to shoot at you because they don't want to hit their ally, further making melee viable on high damage/low health difficulty levels like Survival Mode)
And yes, the animation timing between first and third person melee attacks needs to be the same, simply for gameplay consistency (having it depend on camera angle makes it very difficult to actually learn how to use the weapon for the player, as they have to get used to two different timings) and there needs to be some level of lock-on with the camera being brought up a bit relative to the targeting reticle when in 3rd person and using a melee weapon. These are basic things when making a competent melee combat system in 3D, and have been known since Zelda: OoT, essentially. There's really no excuse for these systems to not be in place in Fallout to accomodate melee weapon users.
This is very well written and insightful
But it's power fiction, they couldmake Starborn being a form of jedi, lol (which one NPC actually suggests)
some great ideas here
I don’t feel like reading beyond the first paragraph because I can immediately see a problem
Blitz, stealth perks and vats perks
ok so this whole thing is just how you would make melee better and logic behind it. got it. Also, agree that blitz and other perks make melee a monster. Armed foes are fine when you are hopped up on chess and beer and killing them in one VATS attack
the worst thing bethesda did to falllout combat is getting rid standard weapons for looter shooter upgraded weapons with rarity tiers, making everything more bulletspogny.
The guns are so hideous and the story is so abysmal I’m glad I never played it(maybe like once at my friends house) and I never want to
@@GMS-ChaabarYakalATLIt’s still worth playing so you can more accurately criticize it
@@desko2041 nah if he's going into it with such a negative mindset it's better to not buy it. Speak with your wallets and all that jazz
@@GMS-ChaabarYakalATL the only redeeming thing about fallout 4 is that the engine is better and therefore you can install more gun mods so you can abuse the "another settlement needs your help" radiant quest to test out these new modded guns and your gam can look really good with graphics mods without horrible perfomance like new vegas, also vanilla combat is better, everything else sucks. Weapon customization is good as well.
@@arkgaharandan5881 I spend more time making mod lists for Fallout 4 than actually playing the game. It's always the same I create the perfect mod list load up the game and realize no amount of mods can make it enjoyable.
Morrowind had spears, funnily enough. Ever since then Beth has refused to have spears.
FNV also has non-throwing spears in the form of the Knife Spear from Dead Money.
Stat requirements were a thing in FNV, and they're absent in FO4 because Beth is deadset on dumbing down their games, to the point of removing RPG mechanics from a RPG.
Also anyone who thinks melee is just swinging a sword clearly never did fencing or HEMA. There's a lot more to it than just wildly swinging a bar of metal around like a drunkard.
Thank you very much for the suggestion of referring to Bethesda as Beth.
@@caposyoutube That's better than Russians calling them "gazebo" (because name of company sounds kinda similar to "besedka")
FNV wasn't madeby Bethesda, that was other team. Morrowing team also wasn'ton Fallout or following ESO games.
@@EllAntares Didn't say FNV was by Bethesda, just that it had spears. It would be contradictory to say that Bethesda refused to put spears in their games after Morrowind and then follow up by saying they put spears in a later game.
I'm pretty sure some of the Morrowind staff still works at Bethesda. Todd Howard was a project lead, iirc.
@EllAntares except in all actuality, it *is* due to the gamebryo engine. Literally everything about the game is made by Bethesda, it just got borrowed to the NV team.
what about the unique heavy attacks you can learn in new vegas like the leg sweep
I will use this video as a base if I ever gonna try modding fallout New Vegas animation
You failed to bring up that doing heavy attacks after light attacks on humanoids can cause an animation to happen that deals damage to the enemy + stuns/inhibits them for a period of time. It’s really easy to do, looks really good and introduced more complexity to the combat. For instance, if an enemy blocks your light attack, going for a heavy will almost always have your character counter attack they’re attack in an animation that leaves them open for a follow-up. The animations can both stun the enemy and sometimes rag doll them. It also introduces more complexity as, like you said, your animation are faster in first person, meaning you can now make tactical decisions with your camera.
th-cam.com/video/q80WM-f4-Vg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xxx-KqRfx-06PJHl
Great example of what I’m talking about ^
I'm glad someone made this video. When I played both Fallout 4 and Starfield on release and made note of how lackluster the melee combat is, I was always hit with the rebuttal of "Well it's a shooter, guns are the focus, not the melee." Which to me, is just excusing lazy game design. Guns are the more prominent weapon type, but as stated by this video, why did the melee REGRESS? I replayed Cyberpunk 2077 last year with a melee/shotgun build, but mostly went melee focused by the end, and still had plenty of options in combat. The prevalence of other options in firearms and quick-hacking didn't negatively affect the viability of melee combat, be it with blunt or bladed weapons. Above all else, it was just fun, whereas the melee in Fallout feels like a chore. Despite melee being more prevalent in TES than Fallout, one can only imagine how it'll look. Hopefully, Bethesda can look at all the other medieval fantasy games that've released since Skyrim and make significant improvements for melee combat for TES: VI, and subsequently, Fallout.
The 4:3 render is greatly appreciated.
The most annoying thing about fallout 4 melee is that enemies can just whip a grenade in your face and melee you while still having a gun to shoot you down
fallout 1 & 2: here's turn based combat based on HEX grids
bethesda: here's oblivion with poorly implemented bows that pretend to be guns
also bethesda: here's idSoftware's combat mechanic that is dumbed down by worthless weapons, it's still oblivion and melee is the best option
TODD OWNS YOU
Bethesda can't really do interesting gameplays.
F4 has better gunplay than new vegas but it's still shittier than Modern Warfare, if you're gonna strip the franchise of its rpg elements then at least make it a good shooter
Brooo fo3 wont open for me either on pc. SUPER annoying. Ive always thought it would play better on pc😭
I could never get it to run off steam. I downloaded it off GOG and it runs seamlessly. Screw steam try GOG.
Yeah apparently it’s a common issue. The steam files are set up wrong or something. Big lame
@@Sublime_Light I looked into it a while ago, and it's something to do with windows gaming live or something like that. I tried downloading stuff to fix it, but then my computer got super buggy right after soooo I stayed away. L taken.😭
@@jec5557 yeah same actually on my old laptop. Luckily I still have a PS3 to play it on so at least I can still play it.
@@Sublime_Light good your for you bro. I moved from the house that had the xbox with it, so it's definitely a dark time...
Very based
I really like the combat in fallout 4 it's nice snappy and it's not idiotic like in fallout 3 and vegas like why does almost everytime I use a gun my character checks it again like the moron forgot that they loaded the gun wtf even when I'm level 20 he still does it idk why people the combat in vegas and 3 its really bad , also aiming most the time sucks ass their is basically no aiming in 3 and with other things but that doesn't matter so basically fallout 4 has the best crafting combat exploration and some fun side quests lol
i always wanted complex movement and unique transversing capability in Fallout universe, maybe simple things like prone, dodge roll, climbing or maybe drive a car, row a boat, ride bighorner, ride securitron, fly using mr.handy
We got sexy Codsworth with legs we could have had sexy Codsworth that you can fly like a Charzard from Pokémon 😢
check out psychor's enhanced movement mod as well as tomminfinite's solid project
sadly bethesda wont advance or move on from their damn ancient engine so they'll continue to be lazy and never incorporate cool shit like this due to it being too complex and unstable.
Hey, now. Don't give them more ideas they'll never capitalize on.
“Using” Curie the synth…
Bethesda doesn't learn from the past, this is a constant within the company. They don't like adhering to lore, they don't like iterating upon previous features. It's culture is corrupt from top to bottom, and without Microsoft telling them to delay Starfield would have been even more of a disaster. And what I've seen from Starfield is their melee combat is even worse.
Something you didn't mention about the FO4 melee combat is how unsatisfying it is. If you get in a 1v1 melee duel, the enemy will be constantly blocking and staggering you, making it almost impossible to hit the enemy unless you wait for them to attack and use that short window of oportunity to land a hit. But thanks to bethesda not knowing hoe to balance a game and making every enemy a bullet sponge, those hits you land do almost nothing.
And the worst part is that the melee perks make it so you disarm enemies if you hit them, and what happens when and enemy is disarmed? it starts to block all your melee hits...
Way to make a fighting style completely not-fun
God that staggering shit is so annoying, especially in 76, tried going for a melee build and god I wanted to kms
Another thing to mention is in fo4 & fo76, unarmed and melee attacks are so fucking slow and has only one or two animations
while NV and I think 3, there’s like 4 or 6 animations per weapon type and they swing super fast, even the super sledge
@@colonel1003 oh yes, they are so fucking slow and it's always that shitty animation, don't get me wrong NV aslo had little in terms of attack animations but at least they were quick se we didn't see them too much, not with 4/76's turtle fucking melee
bethesda's melee combat systems are honestly embarassing, they have plenty of examples out there to follow like Mordhau/Chivalry, Mount & Blade, souls, hell... even the legend of zelda games on n64 have better block and hit mechanics. I think melee's only purpose in their games is for laughing at the buggy sync'd kill animations in skyrim and vats killing people with melee, and again, both pretty much exist for reason but humor.
Fallout 1 was good fun, I loved the death animations blowing a huge chunk out of their sides. I never found the combat that clunky, but I guess I'm used to it.
The death animations are amazing. I think the turn based combat works well, but it can be frustrating. Especially when a swarm of centaurs swarms you before you get the chance to move.
VanBuren was going to have real time combat you could pause at anytime to change your strategy or make specific moves. Just like the first two Baldurs gate games. I think that would’ve been the best of both worlds especially when guns are a very common weapon.
Being able to have some followers firing from a distance while your melee characters close the distance would work much better with BG1 combat style.
@@Sublime_Light I'm really not a fan of realtime combat in such games.
I would love enemies to just move all in one go. Junkies run away at the same time as raiders shoot you and move to positions. Then it's your turn that plays normally.
Tim also said this is what he would do if he could ever remaster the game.
Honestly out of two post-nuclear games in 2015, Mad Max in 2015 was a better Fallout game when it came to a combat system. Melee, Unarmed, and firearms all in the same game, and Max can use combinations of all three kinds of fighting, such as punching or kicking someone followed by a knife slash or a shotgun blast
I’ll give it a look that sounds gnarly. The movies Mad max 2 and 3 are almost identical to the world of Fallout 1 & 2. They’re more Fallout than the TV show I highly recommend those as well.
@@Sublime_Light I have a review of the game plus a guide for Mac OS and Linux users to run it
I think ever since Bethesda struck gold with the mainstream when they released Oblivion, they realized that most consumers will still buy a game even if it has less features or mechanical nuance than previous titles (à la: Morrowind). Since then they've basically rehashed the same formula ad nauseum for the past 18 years, while simultaneously dumbing it down even further to appeal to lower and lower common denominators.
Starfield has been the first real sign that Bethesda is entering the late-stage of it's lifespan as a company, as it clearly no longer has any interests of improving or innovating what they do but instead preferring to soullessly write off a check-list of features to meet the bare-minimum standards of a market audience, all while parasiting off of it's own community to prolong the prevalence of their titles and giving back nothing in return but a few shitty updates that either crash the game or make the mods keeping their games alive unplayable.
That first paragraph is actually one of the projects I’m working on. Yeah they found their golden model and claimed a corner of the market and haven’t changed in forever.
But now there are more companies doing the “Bethesda style” better. Which is great because more people are realizing how watered down Bethesda is when it comes to open world RPGs.
dual wielding and offhand with gun categories would be a massive boon to Bethesda's incredibly stale combat system
Sounds lame. Anime-esque
@@patrickbateman312 I just mean along the lines of if you're holding a pistol you can also have a knife, or two one handed melee weapons like skyrim had. Nothing crazy
@@brodieorr5393 I know what you meant, and I stand by what I said. I think personally that making combat more dangerous and making weapons deadlier instead of bb guns you can plink people 20 times with would be better.
@@patrickbateman312god weebs ruined dual wielding now? I remember when everyone thought it was the coolest shit in Halo 2
@@patrickbateman312
Dual weilding would be fine regardless. Weapons dealing actual damage is a no duh here.
I can understand people still having interest in upcoming Bethesda projects with that 'vibe' that the games give off, and the legacy of games they've already provided to us, but I personally cannot be interested anymore. The meddling release of starfield made me lose just about all interest I had for Fallout 5 or elder scrolls VI. Though I guess I should still hope Bethesda provides at least an entertaining product in their next release and that those who are waiting for it enjoy themselves. Cool video anyway, I’ll be looking forward to your videos yet to come.
We’re gonna play it regardless, let’s not kid ourselves
@@catramax You might, I haven’t bought starfield, and you shouldn’t either.
Middling, not meddling. Unless somehow Starfield tampered with your computer in some way.
@@MidlifeCrisisJoe yes, middling indeed. My mistake. Thanks for correcting me.
@@fletcherw32Yeah. I'm not a fanboy who blindly buys everything a company puts out.
If you ever expand on this topic, it might be worth looking at Starfield to see how things might go, since it's essentially the same as Fallout as far as combat goes. There's basically one melee weapon in that game. They all share the same attack animation but with (I think) three different sets of speeds of attack. The animation includes three light attack swings or a heavy attack, and that's it. They're all functionally identical besides the speed. I don't know how they keep dumbing down the things they've already done better previously, but somehow they keep finding ways.
Even worse when you realize there is an objective progression to meelee weapons in starfield, to the point that if you do NOT have the stupid cultist's knife, you need to get one cause it does MORE DAMAGE than a katana. and the katana trumps everything else before it, and so on.
Also inversely "slow" melee weapons on power armor attack way faster in third person so if you have doing that you are essentially forced to.
If we follow the obvious trend by Bethesda they will some how dumb down fallout even more and take away more features. Todd has been doing this since he was able to
oblivion's stamina system felt like a total afterthought when i played it; i never felt penalized enough to where having low stamina meant losing fights, and there are some pretty silly buffs that make it even more irrelevant, like high athletics making you not consume stamina while sprinting
I know it isnt an exactly good system for bethesda games, as it focuses a little too much on heft and weight, but I think something close to kingdom come's combat in a bethesda style RPG would be exactly what I want.
NV has the best gunplay imo purely because it's got much better armor balance thanks to DT and ammo types.
Also your spread in FNV is fixed and your accuracy is the sway of your weapon model which is effected by your character's stats... Just like real life.
I agree Fallout NV is my favorite with gunplay. The real gun models and the ammo types are so much better than any fluid aiming like in Fallout 4.
@@Sublime_Light Mechanics matter alot but often go unseen... Until you give a raider 6 shotgun blasts to the head and only take him down half way... That's what will make realize what new vegas had with the DT.
@@TheStrayHALOMAN I ranted about that in my video on goodneighbor. It shouldn’t take a magazine and a half to the face to kill a mirelurk. Tanky enemies for no reason other than “players like shooting things let’s make everything take 1,000 rounds” is one of my biggest issues with modern games in general.
Agreed. F4 *feels* really cool when you're using one of the few cool guns like the 10mm or laser weapons, but it's illusory and doesn't reward the player that engages with its systems.
The satisfaction and immersion of FNV's combat cannot go without saying. Investing in high velocity rockets so you can hit distant and fast enemies more reliably. Taking notice of what the enemy is wearing and switching weapon or ammo to compensate. Deciding if it's worth having 10 less pounds of carry weight available to bring a 9mm SMG + ammo, so that you aren't wasting valuable .308 or 12.7mm ammo on molerats and bugs. The fear of seeing a red shield pop up next to their health bar and scrambling to find something that can hurt them. The triumph of returning to that same enemy and blasting past their DT. The simple pleasure of passing the time while walking by reloading again and again. Ping! Ping! Ping!
You forgot to mention in fallout nv melee there’s special move skills you can learn like the ranger takedown
Bro really tried to say dark souls has a very complex movset like you dont use light attacks and heavy attacks. Saying fallout 4 melee combat is simple is correct but you cant talk about dark souls having parrys and not talk about fallout 4's block and counter system where you can counter enemies melee attacks by blocking or if your opponent is a human counter with a hit that will stun them.
Also at 24:24 I cant tell if your not using game mechanics intentionally or just are trash at melee combat because you aren't using a block or vats which would have gotten you out of that situation.
it’s all about how it’s implemented dark souls gives weapon variety and move set changes that make the combat not feel stale and no encounter the same ,you could chose a heavy weapon and play more slow with the trade off of more damage or you can chose a light one with less but more room for mistakes and risky plays it’s all these small things that make soul combat so enjoyable and no encounter plays the same. you can choose to r1 spam and not change up your moves or you can choose to make combos and actually think moment to moment and make that choice it’s all about the fact that we have the option which makes it miles better allowing variety and for someone to play anyway they want which none of the fallouts have in their melee system+weapons arts and many weapons have secret combos this shows a simple system of heavy attacks and light can have depth and be enjoyable it just about variables and having options
Rolling attacks, combos, running attacks, leaping attacks before elden rings true jump attacks, leading lights into heavy attacks, delaying inputs to have attacks come at different times. True charge attacks, not just hit or charged hit, where you can decide to throw it immediately or hold it to max damage.
Vs even oblivion where directional attacks meant different effects. You could disarm, knock down, or even paralyze opponents at master skill.
More fromsoftware circle jerking
my favourite feature of fallout 1 was that because they incorporated a crossfire feature I always found myself body shielding my companions from heavy fire, by far one of my most memorable memories having sprint infront of dogmeat clad in power armor to protect him from a super mutants minigun. As well with their turn base system of knocking down or crippiling a limb being a reliable strategy to incapacitate them for a turn.
1:13 that's literally the reason ranged combat was invented, when the first caveman picked up a rock😂
All of this without even going into the HELL that is the guns of Fallout 4, why did they make such awful designs for everything?
I’ll never forgive that assault rifle. New Vegas and 3 both had actual guns
If fnv have more time they probably did something like unarmed technique for melee weapon too.
I remember getting really excited for the baseball gear I've always wanted to be a baseball-themed character but didn't like the baseball bat in fallout 3. Fallout 4 is so disappointing because it has the aesthetic I wanted the only but wasn't fun. The Only melee weapons I ever use in fallout 4 are knives for stealth kills
The reason they dont include spears is because they fucking suck at making good melee combat and it would be too much work.
Even though it wasn’t a huge mechanic, I really like the special unarmed moves from New Vegas
I don't care for balance.
And to be honest, guns rendered melee obsolete for 90% of situations in the real world too.
The only reason to use melee is when you're out of ammo.
This applies for real life too.
Good luck stabbing someone who has a gun in their hands even if you're already within 10 yards.
Which is crazy close, you probably wouldn't even be able approach within 30 yards realistically.
And also, melee fighting generally is not stealthy at all.
(Neither is archery/crossbow)
@@Stormcloakvictory the last two points are completely wrong.
Closing the distance with a melee weapon is a lot faster than you think. And aiming while someone is charging us a lot harder than you think. That’s why in police training they’ll tell you to take the shot if a person comes within 10 yards with a knife or other melee weapon. Because within 30 feet someone can close that distance and have a weapon in you in a matter of seconds.
Stealth archers are a real thing. That’s why people bow hunt. Literally hiding with a bow until you can sneak attack an animal. That’s why the native Americans fought the frontiersmen by hiding in the bushes and trees with bows and arrows and then shot them from cover. Because bows are very quiet and effective.
If you’re going to post a series of incorrect points with such conviction maybe think about them first.
clicked for vulpes inculta stayed because the video was genuienly good
Loved the Ghoul video! About to binge your entire channel log
people dont want to be cautious or consider other factors they want a mind numbing boring combat system because its easier.
Fallout 4's combat system is absolutely not boring. It's one of the most in depth combat systems of any game that came out in 2015. This is a clown comment 🤡
@@lazydaze3134I don’t believe you watched the video to say something like that. @r3ds4uce is definitely not the clown here.
@@Sublime_Light Says the guy that said darks souls as a complicated combat system. It's just r1 and r2 with a parry.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of the dual wielding idea. It makes sense in some cases like the stealth character example you gave, but for me dual wield super sledge and guns is too much, it seems exaggerated and that would break my immersion. I think the change grip idea would be perfect.
Anyways great video as always, looking forward to see more videos such as this.
I don't think you'd be able to dual weild a super sledge with anything. It's a super sledge, you need two hands for it. Dual weilding would be for something like using a knife and a pistol Naked Snake MGS3 style.
Skyrim already has single handed that can be dual weilded (or used with a shield) and two handed weapons that require both hands to weild (great swors and bows), I don't understand why fallout 4 doesn't.
Yeah no. just like you can't dual wield rifles, you can't dual wield heavy, cumbersome weapons like the sledges.
@@Destroyer_V0 You probably could in power armor
You used the singular form of the word Amicus, shouldn't it be second person plural Amici since you are addressing many people? Sorry to be that pedantic guy.
I mean, if there's a place to be pedantic, it's probably correcting latin grammar I suppose.
Oh my god there are other human beings studying Latin?
Ave Amicus. I use it in the singular form intentionally. Because when I write and say it I’m visualizing the single person watching my video at that time. I mean to say “hey friend” not “hello guys” if you get what I mean. I do appreciate the feedback either way
It's pretty rare seeing someone do Fallout analysis videos and go into detail regarding the first two games. I admire that.
And now you know why I'm no longer a gamer. :)
Good video mate
Folk always say that New Vegas' gunplay was bad, but tbh i often find easier to sight in over using V.A.T.S.
I found switching to the old fallout 3 "zoom in" helped out. Once you get 100 skill the weapon becomes extremely accurate. You could hip fire a Chinese assault rifle and still hit most shots
@@hermithefrog629 it makes a big ol difference.
Aww you like the legion? RIP
The reason why Bethesda didn’t add dual wielding isn’t laziness it’s a design trend they follow. Bethesda as a company has always made successive entries in franchises simpler and simpler to achieve mass market appeal. A strategy which up until starfield served them very well because fallout 4 and Skyrim were smash hits.
Dual wielding would be an extra element that would be more for the player to learn about so they scrapped it. Simple as that
"more for the player to learn" dawg 😂😂😂
Completely agree on the whole video though I will say your choices for game comparisons for FO4's melee were likely not the best. Both are great games however they hold totally different kinds of games than fallout 4. Darksouls is a melee centric hardcore well, soulslike. Dragon's Dogma... Well i haven't playing it but from the looks of it it reminds me of Fable more, maybe dragons age (dunno about the last one because i never got far and found it boring as shit).
Another thing id note is there should be weapon class advantages. Greg the raider should not be blocking my high powered industrial rocket powered sledgehammer designed to break through bricks with his arms. It should shatter his arm and crunch his ribs. Same thing with knives. It makes melee a slog of trading blows and waiting to just crunch the guy. Which can be satisfying in some cases.
I also think perks SHOULD have been considered because the limited perk variety in FO4 hurt melee. Most of them outside of super slam and bloody mess are not particularly good. And with no varied perks like the old fallouts fallout 4's Melee becomes the same builds going "Unga Bunga me hit good" with whatever the biggest fucking stick you can find is
Saying melee was never the strongest play style in Fallout is very much up for debate. You can find videos of people solo’ing Horrigan without any armour, completely unarmed. One of the strongest weapons in the first 2 games is arguably the power fist, and as for the variety of weapons not having much difference in viability? I’m not sure what you mean by this because I would rather have a super sledge than a knife in either of the classics. Even if you mean the weapons of circa. the same “level” or value, i.e. weapons you would obtain organically at similar times in a normal playthrough, the difference between “light” and “heavy” melee (although not an official distinction in the skill tree, you can still make a meaningful distinction the same way you can with firearms, where some have high AP costs and high damage, and some have less of both. Also, unarmed tends to fall into the latter category, whereas normal melee is the prior) provides a level of strategy similar to that which you can find in ranged builds; although you can’t use cover and such, that just forces you to think more carefully about what weapon you want to use in any given situation, depending on how many enemies you’re fighting and how strong they are. Furthermore, if a player doesn’t tend to save scum and try to exploit the game, caps aren’t abundant, especially not in Fallout 1, where time is also against you, so getting ammunition from vendors is harder. Fallout 2 makes it a bit easier with the Highwayman letting you travel from vendor to vendor with ease, and also not putting a REAL time restraint on the main quest, allowing you to wait for restocks. You also praise games which allow players freedom in their attack moves, using Darksouls as an example, where you can switch your grip on weapons and riposte. Although the nature of the classic games don’t allow for proper blocking, the Armour Class mechanic, also letting you gain more AC if you don’t use all your AP in one turn, lets you dodge incoming attacks, giving you another choice in whether you want to play a character with heavy armour or one with light armour who dodges more, and as for the attack variety, Fallout 1 and 2 don’t have as much variety, but they still do have some, letting you attack multiple enemies at once, giving you more or less range, varying the AP cost and the damage. Fallout 1 and 2 were the peak of melee combat for Fallout by far.
I would honestly prefer something more like the physics based combat of the chivalry games. dedicated slash and stab buttons would add versatility especially if you add in crippled limbs. Having a parry button instead of a block button would be cooler risk reward wise. And on top of that add in a dedicated throw button as well. Maybe make it a kick button for unarmed users.
To be completely honest - dual wielding isn't that much fun.
Just for lulz i would love to have two pistols and two automatic shotguns, but in reality you almost always lose more than you gain if you use two weapons.
Also shields and actual blocking instead of just parry would be cool.
love your content dude, keep it up
Defending Oblivion's combat in the year of our lord 2024... 😔
I think you should specify melee on the title because some may think that includes guns as well
Bethesda is simply incapable of making a good melee combat system for some reason
A sword in one hand and a grenade launcher in the other another what does that remind me of - oh Skyrim but a fire ball
I'm astonished that there are a rare few mods that try to improve the melee animations. And almost none for improving Power Armor melee animations.
For your Fallout 3 problem you can easily find tutorials on TH-cam to repair the game but it is not as easy
You know what's REALLY regressing? My hairline.
Even Elder Scrolls Online doesn't have spears and people have been asking for them almost since release.
cool, im with u... and the throwing knife mod is still one of my first mods
Fallout 1 when you duel the Khan leader for Tandy the boss music comes on. In Fallout 3/NV the best melee is the thermic lance crazy dps and melts through power armor like a knife through butter. Fallout 4 the animations for melee just seem odd to me and honestly not worthwhile.
Simple mods that speed up the animation speed, just a little, make a LOT of difference I've found.
I can only play Steam’s Fallout 3 if I click on the .exe itself
Awesome video 👍
Solid vid 👍
Ever thought about making a video on why Bethesda should bring back drivable car like fallout 2 and tactics had.
No I haven’t. But I sure as hell miss my highwayman
for good melee combat, take note of Mount & Blade also
Bethesda - two steps forward three steps back.
Please cover the tv show
My friend instals Fallout 2 from time to time just to go get some better guns and just going places shooting. I personally never liked the combat that much, but the death animations are incredible.
What's funny, Bethesda Zenimax added spears (and entire schools of using one) to ESO, but Bethesda cried. "Nooo, that's not canon, no spears".. Morrowing spears probably aren't "canon" too. They were stuffed into somedinky hole in that game and disappeared thereafter. And spear technically is predecessor of sword 9there are forms that combine boths)
Though I know theres First Person games that do have feints, parries, and different swings, more examples of them would be cool
Cyberpunk 2077 is basically what Bethesda games wish they were in so many ways, melee combat being part of that. Admittedly, the weapon variety is a little lacking and so is the weapon modification system for them, but in terms of sheer *feel* it mogs fallout and elder scrolls entirely lol
You can get a feel for your character's swing arcs and target limbs, deflect bullets with your sword, parry incoming melee strikes or block them, leap/lunge attacks, let alone the perks and cyberware (like Sandevistan) you can pair with a melee character. Insanely fun and powerful
They ALMOST had throwing weapons in Far harbor, but they were cut. I have no idea what changed their minds.
To anyone worried about the quality of the next elder scrolls or fallout game.
Ahoy, try before you buy. Arrrrg
I agree
You're literally comparing a mainly gun focused rpg that tends to focus on story and exploration over combat with games that are based around melee weapon combat 😂😂 That said I tend to play sneaky melee characters most times. So improved melee combat would be awesome.
Story in FO4? Man, you must be the target audience...
great insightful video!
Cool.
I'm getting fallout 5, no matter what. As long as I don't completely screw up the BOS Or the enclave which I hope they're in far out 5. I'll be happy. And also if the story isn't complete shit
So you wont be buying FO5. Got it.
@@Wesley-1776 Fair point. But I'm still getting it. Let's be honest, the only reason that fallout 4 kindness of Survives is Modding and the game play as like shooting.
Just pirate it lol
@@russianoverkill3715 compelling argument
Let the Enclave die already. The biggest issue with Bethesda Fallout versus old/Obsidian Fallout is that Bethesda doesn't let old factions die and constantly brings them back while Black Isle/Obsidian know that you have to keep evolving the universe and bringing in new players like Caesar's Legion or Mr. House and his Securitron Army.
At least Bethesda got this more correct in FO4 with the Institute being the bad guys rather than having the Enclave return or bringing back the Master or something, even if they doofed it by jamming in even more Super Mutants and Radscorpions for no real reason other than "it's Fallout, so they gotta be there!"
There has not been a real fallout game since 3
3 is a joke
@@czarnakoza9697 that’s not what you’re mother said last night. In all seriousness, 3 actually is Fallout. It has a wasteland that wants to kill you. People are trying to survive in this desolate environment. The only other non mainline games that come close is Dust, a New Vegas Mod, and this Fallout tactics mod made by the Canadian government.
@@Bluesonofman >200 years after the apocalypse
>desolate
your dad doesnt let the enclave use project purity even though they just want to use it for themselves and still deliver purified water (eden didnt tell autumn about his plan)
people in megaton live off scavenging stuff from a super duper mart when in fo1 they already had crops
brotherhood somehow traveling to dc and becoming generic good guys
even the sum had a working society, the cities had crops, people were rebuilding, its like the apocalypse never happened
@@czarnakoza9697 Civilization should be in this back water state until at least 3100
@@Bluesonofman that retcons literally every single other fallout game
also you ignored all my other points
There are crowbars in Fallout 4. There's one stuck in the dead dog right after crossing the bridge from Sanctuary.
That's a tire iron... Can't you read that as that's the name of the item? Crowbars are not in F4
@@ThatOliveMrT Isn't a tire iron a crowbar?
Oh, I see, it always looked like a crowbar to me, same basic shape.
You can use a tire iron as a crowbar, and as a melee weapon for that matter, but you cannot use a crowbar as a tire iron 😅.
@@DrWongburger Well, halfway. You can't use it to remove lugnuts (at least you shouldn't) but the tire iron depicted in FO4 is a hybrid lugnut remover and crowbar, so you can peel off tires with both.
>new fallout before elder scrolls VI
💀💀💀💀