I'd love to see a break down like this for the advanced classes. I know people like to defend the thief, but I wish they weren't so terrible at dealing with treasure traps. At level 1, they only have a 10% chance to find the trap, and a second 10% roll has to be made to remove it. Assuming poison needle traps (a classic), they have a 40% chance to make the saving throw. That gives them a 54% chance of being killed the first time they encounter a trapped treasure chest. A halfling could just trigger the trap, and count on his awesome saving throw to keep him alive 65% of the time. In other words, the halfling survives 65% of the time, versus 46% for the thief. 10,000 XP later, the thief is level 5, the halfling is level 4. Thief now has a 30% chance to spot the trap, and survives the poison on a 12 or better (45%). That combines to give the thief a 61.5% chance to survive, still lower than the halfling at level 1. The level 4 halfling is trucking along and surviving with a saving throw roll of 6 or better, a 75% chance. I know that's not all there is to either class, but it just annoys me that the treasure hunter class is terrible at hunting for treasure. You're mathematically better off letting a halfling or dwarf blunder through every trap they find like Mr. Magoo.
It was mentioned in the video that old school modules have modifiers to the percentile skills rolls. So an easy lock or trap may add 30% or so, high level marks may subtract from a thief's pickpocket chance and so on. I think that's why hear noise is a d6 roll since its more of a passive skill and there is no direct opposition to the action as with percentile skills. It also assumes more work from the ref to balance out the modifiers and from the thief player to gauge what tasks are worth the risk. Maybe if the ref telegraphs to the thief player that the trap looks very difficult, the player may opt for the spring-and-duck strategy instead of tinkering with it. My preferred method for all skills is what Lucy does for stealth which is to just expand the regular 2in6 range of d6 rolls to 4in6 for thieves. 4in6 to surprise opponents instead of 2in6 (and sneak by/pickpocket surprised opponents with evasion rules or backstab), 4in6 to pick stuck doors with lockpicks instead 2in6 of forcing, 4in6 to find a trap if its not sprung then 4in6 to remove and so on. I don't really see a need for the extra overhead of diversifying the difficulty of traps and skill tasks with modifiers to offset the low starting thief chances and super high later chances. A steady 4in6 (67%) on a d6 seems about right for a treasure hunter.
Hey there Lucille! I recently discovered your OSE content and i really love it! Great job there! Could you possibly do a "monster video", where you explain, how to read the stat block of the monsters and how combat works? That would be amazing! As a 5e players i find the monster stat block in OSE quite confusing.
Definitely can sort something like that out. I wasn't sure if monsters or treasures was worth reviewing as they are just large data tables, but that's a very good point
@@llblumire Thank you for taking that into consideration, i'm looking forward to it! :) (and yes, the monster stat block and combat rules might seem basic for 1e players, but for people who are "new to old school", those can be quite difficult to understand).
@@relaxme2048 yeah, I get that fully. I think for me the OSE stat blocks are such an upgrade from 1e and other OSE stat blocks that I didn't consider how terse they are
It's a bit obfuscated due to OSEs very singularly focused references, but the idea is that there are discrete power levels or tiers for attacks that heroes can be at. Fighters advance these every three levels, clerics every four, and magic users every five. That's why there are seemingly bigger jumps, to group the tiers
An analogy might be (at least for USA) the traditional grade/school system: grammar school - grades 1 - 5; middle school - grades 6 - 8; high school - grades 9 - 12. One advances a grade per year, but there are also discontinuous jumps at certain years. I submit this is also much more akin to real-world training: in most things (e.g. fitness or playing an instrument), we advance in steps: making little progress, perhaps, for a while, but then, seemingly suddenly, a jump in prowess. IMHO, Pathfinder and 3.x invented the "problem" of the so-called dead level, the fix to which was to smooth the various numerical and skill/feat acquisition scheme to its current apotheosis in PF2e.
There are three main reasons. One this is a different version of the game to RC, being an adaptation of BX not BECMI, and the reasons to prefer BX over BECMI are numerable. Two it has a much better and cleaner layout for fast table reference than the RC, with content always presented cleanly on two page spreads instead of regularly overflowing onto the next page. Finally because it provides a number of rules terminology simplifications and rewrites that keep the mechanics the same as in BX, but presents them in a way that is far easier to learn and teach.
I'd love to see a break down like this for the advanced classes.
I know people like to defend the thief, but I wish they weren't so terrible at dealing with treasure traps. At level 1, they only have a 10% chance to find the trap, and a second 10% roll has to be made to remove it. Assuming poison needle traps (a classic), they have a 40% chance to make the saving throw. That gives them a 54% chance of being killed the first time they encounter a trapped treasure chest. A halfling could just trigger the trap, and count on his awesome saving throw to keep him alive 65% of the time. In other words, the halfling survives 65% of the time, versus 46% for the thief.
10,000 XP later, the thief is level 5, the halfling is level 4. Thief now has a 30% chance to spot the trap, and survives the poison on a 12 or better (45%). That combines to give the thief a 61.5% chance to survive, still lower than the halfling at level 1. The level 4 halfling is trucking along and surviving with a saving throw roll of 6 or better, a 75% chance.
I know that's not all there is to either class, but it just annoys me that the treasure hunter class is terrible at hunting for treasure. You're mathematically better off letting a halfling or dwarf blunder through every trap they find like Mr. Magoo.
It was mentioned in the video that old school modules have modifiers to the percentile skills rolls. So an easy lock or trap may add 30% or so, high level marks may subtract from a thief's pickpocket chance and so on. I think that's why hear noise is a d6 roll since its more of a passive skill and there is no direct opposition to the action as with percentile skills. It also assumes more work from the ref to balance out the modifiers and from the thief player to gauge what tasks are worth the risk. Maybe if the ref telegraphs to the thief player that the trap looks very difficult, the player may opt for the spring-and-duck strategy instead of tinkering with it.
My preferred method for all skills is what Lucy does for stealth which is to just expand the regular 2in6 range of d6 rolls to 4in6 for thieves. 4in6 to surprise opponents instead of 2in6 (and sneak by/pickpocket surprised opponents with evasion rules or backstab), 4in6 to pick stuck doors with lockpicks instead 2in6 of forcing, 4in6 to find a trap if its not sprung then 4in6 to remove and so on. I don't really see a need for the extra overhead of diversifying the difficulty of traps and skill tasks with modifiers to offset the low starting thief chances and super high later chances. A steady 4in6 (67%) on a d6 seems about right for a treasure hunter.
I went to check out the blog, and saw that i already had it bookmarked. Feels good.
Recently found your channel. Really love the content so far!
Hey there Lucille! I recently discovered your OSE content and i really love it! Great job there!
Could you possibly do a "monster video", where you explain, how to read the stat block of the monsters and how combat works? That would be amazing!
As a 5e players i find the monster stat block in OSE quite confusing.
Definitely can sort something like that out. I wasn't sure if monsters or treasures was worth reviewing as they are just large data tables, but that's a very good point
@@llblumire Thank you for taking that into consideration, i'm looking forward to it! :) (and yes, the monster stat block and combat rules might seem basic for 1e players, but for people who are "new to old school", those can be quite difficult to understand).
@@relaxme2048 yeah, I get that fully. I think for me the OSE stat blocks are such an upgrade from 1e and other OSE stat blocks that I didn't consider how terse they are
The weird way the THAC0 jumps, by 2s and 3s, rather than 1s more frequently, is a bit offputting.
It's a bit obfuscated due to OSEs very singularly focused references, but the idea is that there are discrete power levels or tiers for attacks that heroes can be at. Fighters advance these every three levels, clerics every four, and magic users every five. That's why there are seemingly bigger jumps, to group the tiers
An analogy might be (at least for USA) the traditional grade/school system: grammar school - grades 1 - 5; middle school - grades 6 - 8; high school - grades 9 - 12. One advances a grade per year, but there are also discontinuous jumps at certain years. I submit this is also much more akin to real-world training: in most things (e.g. fitness or playing an instrument), we advance in steps: making little progress, perhaps, for a while, but then, seemingly suddenly, a jump in prowess.
IMHO, Pathfinder and 3.x invented the "problem" of the so-called dead level, the fix to which was to smooth the various numerical and skill/feat acquisition scheme to its current apotheosis in PF2e.
Rules cyclopedia is way cheaper, with tons more options. DriveThruRPG about $20 or $10 for pdf why bother with this knock off?
There are three main reasons. One this is a different version of the game to RC, being an adaptation of BX not BECMI, and the reasons to prefer BX over BECMI are numerable. Two it has a much better and cleaner layout for fast table reference than the RC, with content always presented cleanly on two page spreads instead of regularly overflowing onto the next page. Finally because it provides a number of rules terminology simplifications and rewrites that keep the mechanics the same as in BX, but presents them in a way that is far easier to learn and teach.