For anyone wondering, I think this is now a standard feature in Windows 11. I just upgraded from 10 and it's just there, and almost completely undocumented/unmentioned. One of the most underrated features imo
@@ADSteam1994 not sure, just the most recent stable I guess. But do you have 2 dedicated gpu's? The extra option won't show up with one dedicated and one integrated for example. But then you can just use the og setting
OMG, I FINALLY FOUND THE VIDEO ABOUT THIS TOPIC. I was trying to do my own tests between monitor plugged into gpu directly and monitor plugged into motherboard (so the picture was passing through my cpu graphics), but the camera wasn't fast enough to caprute the difference. Thank you very much for doing all the tests!
You can't notice a 3ms delay by looks but you can feel 1/60 of a frame which is 0.26 ms since 60hz/60fps= 16.66666ms so 16.66666÷60= 0.26ms . I know this because I did a gpu pass through with duplicate screens. I recorded the results with a high speed camera because when I was playing I could feel some lag on the crt. What suprised me is that the lag was only 1/60 fps. The crt when pressing pause on screen was behind 1hz/frame vs my lcd monitor.
Great informative video!!!! This is some of the exact stuff I have been looking for, specifically the VGA adapters for running on newer cards. I'm glad to see it's virtually lagless vs native analog signal generators onboard the rendering graphics card. Great to see!
There's a lot of good stuff in the HardForum thread, but I'm too cheap to keep purchasing adapters for testing. I've so far found the 980 Ti to be totally sufficient.... mostly because I play a lot of older titles.
@@ApertureGrille Call me crazy, but since Windows 11 is now publicly out, I kinda wanna see an update video from you on this topic with a slightly more advanced PC testing setup to see where things could be further refined. There’s always going to be a PCI-Express x8 bottleneck with installing two PCI-E x16 graphics cards on a lot of mainstream chipset motherboards like the one you used, with the 16-lane bandwidth being bifurcated between the two main slots. Maybe for the update video you could get an Intel Core i9 10850K CPU and X299 chipset motherboard and see if the increased PCI-E Lane bandwidth can actually benefit the GPU passthrough pipeline with two fully-discrete PCI-Express x16 slots for both cards? Also in the update, I’d like to see you swap out the two cards that were used here with turbo blower-style versions of the GeForce GTX 980 or 980 Ti or Titan X (Maxwell) and the GeForce RTX 3080 or 3090 (Ampere) for two reasons: 1: The open-air coolers are not optimised for proper airflow with two cards stacked so tightly together, as both cards end up recycling warm air from each other, which hurts the airflow and negatively impacts performance, whereas blower coolers actually benefit from cramped multi-GPU setups, pulling air from the front of the case and exhausting it through the back without deteriorating each other’s performance (th-cam.com/video/x0FTAFhnh3E/w-d-xo.html). 2: There still aren’t too many native ray-tracing games out there quite yet, but I I think it’d be interesting to see how the Ampere card can stack on performance with a CRT and whether or not the GPU passthrough pipeline can allow ray-tracing games to take full direct advantage of the Ampere ray-tracing cores at maximum settings on the CRT monitor’s highest native resolution. I think you should retest the games you’ve played in this video on the new setup, as well as add more games for a bit of variety: The Sims 4 Mass Effect Legendary Edition Need for Speed Hot Pursuit Remastered Forza Horizon 5 Marvel’s Guardians Of the Galaxy Watch Dogs Legion The Medium Minecraft Bedrock Edition Metro Exodus Life Is Strange True Colors Cyberpunk 2077 Hitman 3
I've had this exact pass-through idea kicking around in my head for weeks and i FINALLY come across this video to prove to me that not only is it possible but it exists and works. I'm about to put a high end CRT into service as a secondary screen and my adapter is like 95% reliable for what i'm trying to do. This, on the other hand, is EXACTLY what I want to do. Gonna take some work but i think it'll be worth the effort. Thank you!
Please tell us how it worked out! I'm quite happy with the "Benfei" DAC which is seen in the beginning of this video because you can raise the pixelclock in CRU so you dont run in the arbitrary 165Mhz limit which is common on these adapters.(I have mine on 300Mhz without issues but ymmv as always) What seems to be impossible with these adapters, or I guess modern GPUs, is running interlaced resolutions which I'm interested in for max Hz modern gaming. I'm hoping that GPU passthrough with a GTX 750 as analog out would let me properly use all the functions of my crt. Im on an amd system intending to use an old nvidia card as a glorified DAC.
The GTX 980 Ti it's not that bad for simpler games, for new heavy games this is a nice option. No need to select every game to run on the modern GPU, hunt the ones the 980 Ti can't handle.
This is outstanding, I can't believe I've finally found this video. This is SO in depth. You're now my favorite CRT channel. (Sorry LGR I still love you very much) Edit: Holy fffffffffffffffffffffffff that (low)latency is insane!
I've been super tempted to try some of the adapters that Derupter mentioned in that HardForum thread, but importing adapters from Europe, especially how much some of them cost, is putting me off. And at least for right now, my 980 Ti works OK for most games, especially at CRT resolutions.
@@ApertureGrille I bought the Sunix DPU 3000 myself but I've heard that you can get a Delock or an IcyBox for way cheaper. If they look like the Sunix 3000, they -probably- have the same chip (VMM2322, I think). That or you just use a cheaper active adapter and use Custom Resolution Utility to downclock the refresh rate, so the adapter can handle it.
If the PCI-E gets cut in half, wouldn't it be better to just use integrated graphics to display the signal through the VGA connector of the motherboard? and then use the full 16 lanes for the processing power of the dedicated gpu in Windows 11.
man, the trouble i had with my fw900 and my radeon r9 290 i was *THIS* close to shell out the obscene amount of money for an HD Fury if only this was available back then edit: this also kinda reminds me running an amd gpu with as nvidia one for physx when that was still a thing haha
I think some people in the HardForum thread have had success with the HD Fury, but it's a bit too pricey for me. And there are quite a few adapters that are only available in Europe, so I haven't tried those. I'm mostly happy with the 980 Ti, since I play a lot of older games, but your R9 290 is a bit older... The Benfei adapter I show in the video can do around 350 MHz pixel clock, but only in YCbCr, which is not ideal for setting custom resolutions.
Imagine having trouble testing input lag in existing shooter games, so you went ahead and made your own. Absolute madlad!!! Also, since FSR has been seamlessly integrated into the sample game, could you do the same for the DLSS plugin?
I'm hoping to release this relatively soon, and it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to add DLSS, but the problem is that I don't have an RTX card, so I can't actually see if it works! The "game" portion will be bundled with Frog Pursuit, which now supports custom user patterns, so ideally, with both FSR and DLSS, users could add in their own images and compare DLSS to FSR really easily.
Bought EVGA Hybrid 980Ti WC with 2017 Tax Money (800$). Year later, added BIOS voltage, & GPU/MEM OC & Liquid Metal mods. Furmark pulls 420w (in gpuz) with steady 70c, she ran 420w+ 3 days straight no issues (furmark for the weekend while I was gone). She kept ticking with games and video encoding until I sold it in 2023. 980Ti is a king in my books
Do you think you could make an updated version of this video, with a newer gaming test rig with either an RTX 4090 or a RX 7900 XT as the render GPU, and testing out older GPUs to decide which ones to recommend for the VGA/DVI-I output?
Using second GPU to act as VGA adapter is not recommended... by anyone ever. From good cheap solutions I recommend Delock 62967. Great image quality for what it is and has bandwidth of 340-350MHz. I don't recommend StarTech HD2DPVGADVI due to rather poor image quality. There are some other options with varying quality - best to check that FW900 topic mentioned in video description. Topic of using second GPU was raised there also.
I'm curious how much resolution your trinitron can actually resolve. I have a similar 21inch dell one that I found could only resolve 1280x1024 resolution without a fine grid pattern turning into a mixed up flat grey. I get supersampling is great but I was very happy knowing I had some more GPU juice left over from all the saved pixel rendering work.
RTX 2070 / GT 710 pairing. Last time I used a CRT it did very well, BUT Nvidia dropped 600 and 700 serie support, so my 710 went invisible to any software. I wonder if it'll still work...
Been looking for something like this! I upgraded to a new pc this year and was thinking about sticking my old GPU in there (or in an external enclosure) with my shiny new 4070 for exactly this purpose when i eventually get a CRT. Didn't know this was an actual Windows feature 🤔
You don't need the best DSUB card to do it. I have a 3070Ti with a HD5450 next to it, which is only 512MB. Still works great, GTAV about at max setting, 140FPS, despite working at PCI-E 1.1 X4 mode for some reason. The 3070Ti is running at PCI-E 4.0 X16. I want to change the 5450 for another card which also has S-Video Output to be also able to use it with CRT TV.
I use a 1060 gtx and a 960 gtx. As far as I am aware my 1060 is rendering all my games, even if I put the game on my CRT. But my CRT is connected to the 960. I've seen some people online say they weren't able to get this to work, and others have said they also do this with no problems. I feel their pain, I can't get interlaced working to save my life on my setup. And others said they can get it working with no issues.
I think a key difference between what I am doing, and what you are doing in your video, is that I do have monitors hooked up to my 1060 gtx. Just not my CRT specifically. And my main display is an LCD that is running the 1060 gtx. So this sort of tricks windows into rendering everything with the 1060, since it is the main GPU. Hope that makes sense.
@@copper4eva I've also had trouble getting interlaced working. I had it working at one point, but either a Windows update or new NVIDIA drivers caused it to stop working, and I can't get it back! With your setup, Windows may be doing something like what OpenGL was doing on my system. But I can only get that to work in OpenGL, not anything else. I'll admit that I don't really understand fully what WDM and the display driver are doing, so I can't really troubleshoot this.
@@ApertureGrille I plan on moving my desktop to Linux one of these days. Hopefully this makes getting interlaced and such working easier. I also might switch to an AMD setup one day, since they have open source drivers for Linux. But right now GPU's are expensive.
Same problem!!! Was able to push 120hz easy on display scaling now higher refeesh rate work only with gpu scaling but so much latency in shooters … nvdia have fucked up againnnn
I was just thinking about this in the early hours of this morning. I was on ebay looking at a Titan X Maxell, and thinking about using it for pass through.
Cool video! Fyi the NVIDIA control panel let's you pick which GPU is doing the rendering and then you can set your second weaker GPU basically as an extra output passthrough.
wait, how can i do this?, i have an nvidia gt 440 lying around, and i wanna use it for the older outputs, and my 3070 to do the rendering. So can i do it, from the nvidia panel?
Ive been using windows 10 480p output over HDMI, and downscaling that signal with a pre-built GBS-C (~100$, much cheaper if you have the skills to make one). I find this is a little more elegant, because the software fiddling is minimal, and all i need to do is send the HDMI out. Only issue is that the GBS-C can have handshake issues with this signal coming from a PC over HDMI. Best solution ive found is to send the signal through an HDMI splitter first to force a more solid handshake to the GBS-C. Is it the best way in the world to do this? No. But it gets me 240p without incurring too much lag, so i love with it
Have you heard of InnoSilicon’s Fantasy One Type A GPU? It is a brand new card with a VGA output. I don’t know when it will be available or how good it is. But it should be something to pay attention to for us CRT users. Would you consider reviewing this?
Can i used the integrated gpu of my cpu for passthrough? , most mid range motherboards have an analog out, if i could use the igpu from my processor, i wouldn't have to giveup any pci-e lanes to another gpu, this should reduce the performance loss massively.
While it's great to have more support and options, and have this awsome ability at the OS level, so it's for sure an upgrade, Nvidia has offered this capability for years through OPTIMUS, it allows you to do the same thing, output from one card and render from another, Nvidia Experience now has this capability built in, just select which GPU you want to use before booting the game, s small GPU icon in the taskbar will indicate which GPU is in use, AMD GPU's have switchable graphics", allowing you to select which GPU you want each application to use, great for either sparing your battery or main desktop GPU when so much power isn't needed, Nvidia has the added bonus of allowing you to use the second NV GPU as a PhysX accelerator, giving a good 15% FPS boost in some games, so there is more than one reason to have and extra VGA GPU in your gaming RIG.
Thank You I actually Have this exact problem! I think I might upgrade my Ryzen 3700x to 5600g apu or 5700g apu when I can afford it. Your amazing! My mobo has a DVI output for an apu I'm going to wait for a non beta build of windows and more info on this feature working with AMD apu and Nvidia gpu but this is some amazing news for CRT Monitor lovers that want to play the latest games on their monitors.
Is the DVI connector on the motherboard DVI-I? There should be four little pins surrounding the large, flat pin. This technique can be used right now, even on Windows 10, with integrated graphics, as long as the motherboard has the correct connector on the back. My Z270 board, for instance, has DVI out, but it's DVI-D, so I can't use it to connect the CRT.
@@ApertureGrille hello, for me selecting a specific gpu does not show up. the options of power saving and high performance show the same integrated gpu even if i have a rx 550 connected to the motherboard. conveniently the integrated gpu already has a vga port so i can use that. but how do i make the option, of specific gpu selection, show?
Hey, Awesome vid as always a5hun. Something that I was hoping you would do on here however when comparing analog solutions was to compare the latency of DP:VGA adaptors to that of VGA passthroughs from the motherboard, as finding DVI, VGA is still very commonly found today on gaming motherboards expecting an iGPU compatible CPU. Seeming as the display adaptor from iGPUs was created for the sole purpose of passing through an external video source from either an external GPU or CPU (such as the layout you commonly find on laptops today), it would make sense and would be a much cheaper option for those with PC motherboards that are still today rocking on-board VGA for this kind of passthrough to have less latency then either a passthrough GPU, or that from an adaptor like what you’ve tested on this video. I’d love to see a video on this option if the results are response-worthy.
Hah, I see two copies of this! Using the on-board VGA out may work with less latency. I haven't tested it, but that 3 ms of lag may get cut in half (down to 1.5 ms) since there would be one less trip over PCIe. I'd love to test this as well, but I actually can't! My ASUS Z270 board has DVI out, but it's DVI-D, so it can't handle analog. And my only other PC is a Ryzen, so it doesn't have any integrated graphics. I've been having a hard time finding modern motherboards with DVI-I. I know there are some BioStar motherboards that still include it, but I think most of the big guys, Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI, etc., have completely dropped DVI-I from the majority of their boards. What motherboard do you have?
@@ApertureGrille >"Hah, I see two copies of this!" Very sorry about that, delete them if you want, since I still cannot see them on here. >"I've been having a hard time finding modern motherboards..." My current PC's a core i7-9700K, 16GB, RTX 2070, and the mobo's a ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4-CB. My mobo features VGA, DVI, as well as HDMI as mobo ports, (and with VGA) as do all my previous motherboards thus far.
@@Dantakurai Oh, wow. That ASRock does have VGA out! The DVI is DVI-D, but it does have proper VGA. Nice. Looking through ASRock's new boards, they don't have any Z590 motherboards with VGA, but there are a few B560 and H510 boards with it. Not sure I'd want one of those, though. :)
@@ApertureGrille I suppose they're getting more sparse now. Still though, I expect these order boards to potentially be a great option for CRT gamers that happen to find an older CPU. I know that despite me not being able to get my GTS 240 to work with my RTX card using windows 10, I was able to get an external image onto my CRT monitor with my main monitor running on my RTX card, I still wouldn't know how to get onboard VGA to work as a passthrough though, I just know that laptops use drivers for them so I assume I could get one of those to work potentially as well whenever I want to whip out the CRT again.
Yes this is what I do! I have an Asus B550 with VGA out going to a crt, with a 4800g cpu. My main GPU is a 6700xt, and until now I havent been able to use it for gaming on the CRT. Is the set render GPU option available to Windows 10 now without using the insider build? Would love to try this!
I have a Sunix DPU 3000 adapter plugged directly to my Sony CPD-G520 monitors VGA input with a male-male VGA genderswapper, or whatever those are called. I tested this adapter to still display an image at around 540mHz pixel clock. Out of curiosity, how many usage hours your Dell CRT have? My G520 has 7080hrs and my IBM P275 has 7600. Both are still able to hit the 112 nits targeted on WinDAS white point procedure.
Admittedly, I tried watching the video and I got lost due to all of the terminology I don't understand. Essentially, I'm trying to game on a CRT with a PC that has an RTX 3070. I would like to get one of those high end DACs to convert my Display Port to VGA, but they're impossible to find anywhere. So I was recommended this video to try the passport. Could someone just give me a summary of what I'd need to do to get this setup? There are a few MSI 980Tis near me that I could possibly buy if someone explains it well enough that I can understand.
Get another GPU, make sure both GPUs are running at 16x or at least 8x mode. connect CRT to other GPU. in Windows 11 select main GPU as the the specific gpu to run the application. voila!
Still use my 21" IBM CRT with my old 980ti as my main card^^ And a 1070 isn't really faster than a 980ti, but it has more VRAM. And probably uses less energy^^
I am running the Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB with an RTX 2080. I am using a delock displayport to VGA adaptor and I have no issues. I can hit 163hz at 800x600 and 74hz at 1920x1440 which is the monitors max hz for the resolutions.
There’s native signal resolution and desktop resolution they have to match or defaults to the lowest being native resolution your prob running it at 1080
I have an EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SC GAMING ACX 2.0 (what a mouthful) and an Sony E200 (1600x1200 @ 60Hz). I find when the GPU is under heavy load, there's noticeable interference and noise on in the image in the form of dark horizontal lines moving up and down the screen. The lines are especially noticeable on solid coloured backgrounds. It happens on VGA LCD monitors too, and it has happened in every house I've lived in (so it's not the house electricity wiring). Is this a problem you've experienced with your 980 Ti? I'm under the impression that my 970 just has very poor shielding on the analog section, and when high power is drawn into the video card, the interference occurs. The best solution I've found to this is to use a HDMI to VGA adapter, which is a real shame because it would be nice to use the VGA straight out of the video card. Are there any other solutions to this? (I don't want to do the GPU passthrough thing, if the 970 is at 50% load I'd be worried there'd still be noise.)
I've never seen that. All the cards that I have (GTX 260, GTX 570, GTX 980 Ti) all have nice and clean analog out. I even have an old Radeon 5450 that has very good signal quality from its VGA port. And what's weirder is that my 980 Ti is an EVGA SC. One lucky thing, though, is that your HDMI adapter more than likely adds zero lag, and since you're only running at 1600x1200 at 85Hz, you're not really running up against the pixel clock limits for the DAC.
@@ApertureGrille Maybe it's just my 970 at fault then. If GPU prices every settle down, I may look for a 980 Ti and see if I can get a cleaner signal that way.
Should be coming out soon! I'm just making sure all the bugs are completely fixed. I showed the new menu in the video, but Frog Pursuit will now be bundled 3D FPS and Smooth Rotator. The new version is way better than the old version. You can now add you own images for panning!
Is there a reason to be using a GPU like the 980 or Titan X when doing the passthrough? Or can you actually get away with something much older and perhaps passively cooled?
I don't have an insider build, but it's been out for so long that I'm surprised it's not in the main build yet. Do I still need to do an insider build to get this feature, even a few years later?
What about someone who has a 3080Ti wanting to do up to 1440x1080 at up to 85Hz? I'm not even getting a full GigaByte/sec per the calculation in the bandwidth chapter of the vid.
What about component/composite out??? to drive CRT TVs??? The last GPU to have 7 pin S-Video was the GTX 285, to my knowledge thats the fastest GPU with Composite/Component out via S-Video. Would this work with a GTX 285 + Modern AMD GPU? I dont think u can pair a OLD Nvidia GPU with a new one because of drivers problems, but u could try GTX 285 + More modern AMD card and see if that works...
Not worth it, just go straight dvi-i, the last amd card is the r9 380x. Youll get the benifits of a better card (and just incase 15khz works excellently, via crtemudriver)
For sure, they've been eliminating features from their GPUs for years, like making it impossible to use interlaced resolutions or using 240p/480i@60hz, y'know things that you might want to do with CRT screens and these are totally artificial limitations imposed by them. It sucks.
Hey, has someone a hint for me: I am running a 454 iiyama on my 960GTX, and the other card 4080 currently, should do the rendering. I have 2 other monitors connected to the 4080. i try running BG3, Cyberpunk, or RDR2, but it does not seam to work. I have to choose the graphics driver for each game in the graphics settings, but if I choose the 4080 I can’t choose the iiyama as the display :( Maybe someone has a tip, or a reference for me I can try out. Thanks in advance. (Tried to switch windows+shift+arrow key)
@@jskilabe5986 hey thanks for the suggestions, I tried doing that, but it had something to do with the other displays. Some Games just did not want to recognize the iiyama, if there was a connection to different monitors connected to the 4080. I will post my current settings and setup below.
I have the iiyama, and optional other monitors solely connected to the 960, not to the 4080 anymore. I also moved away from the approach to always have 3 monitors connected when gaming, or even in general. It has something calming to focus on one screen, and I didn't even realize it beforehand, but multiple connected monitor evoke some kind of pressure.. Might be all work related (working as a developer).. Either way: all games are set to render their graphics with a specific CPU, namely the 4080, and the output is forced over the 960, because everything is connected here. This works like a charm, with some minor issues here and there, sometimes the framerate is caped to a specific value, mainly in microsoft games. It helps to keep something like FPS counter up top from the gamebar to fix that. And it really helped to set a specific resolution and Hz for my monitor with the resolution tool. don't use the Nvidia scaling tools, always rely on your hardware for that. Questions? Please shoot, I try to answer the comment is already quite long haha
Seems like there's a lot of cool stuff you could do with this. I was going to get an old AMD card with FreeSync to test the same thing Julio did, but even old graphics cards are too expensive!
@@ApertureGrille pass through is great for emulators too. my pc uses a rtx 2080 for games and an amd hd6540. The amd card can output 480i and 240p to a crt tv using crtemudriver.
@@robbyjvc How does passthrough work with AMD and Nvidia? Do you need to install drivers for each GPU? (can you even install them both on the same PC?) I'd like to attempt using AMD's integer scaling while using my 1050ti as my main GPU.
@@qbxcv I have drivers for the nvidia and amd card installed. But the amd driver is called crtemudriver. Which lets windows do 480i. And before it was installed, both cards could output video. It still should be handled similarly with a stock amd driver, and the setting should be where it is in this video. If you wanna output 480i to a crt tv through one of those cards, you'll have to do a few more steps.
so adapters dont have lag?? thats weird because i do feel like there is some lag with my startech DP2VGAHD20 with displayport on crt at 160hz while playing osu
I am a year late but i have a stupid question nobody has asked here How did you manage to install drivers on both GPUs? apeartly, it only installs driver for one, and if you go on and try installing for the other one it will remove the previous drivers you had just installed Maybe it's becuase they are generations apart but I tried Pairing 3080 with 1060 but couldn't do it so i am stuck with my old R9 380 which ofcource has different drivers beacuse it's from a different vendor PLease answer if you can. How do i install drivers for both Nvidia Graphics Cards? Thank you
Hmm. That's weird. I didn't have any issue with the driver. The video is fairly old, but both cards were enabled at the same time without any sort of driver trickery. And your 1060 and 3080 should definitely both be supported!
@@ApertureGrille what's been happening with me is. I already had 3080 in there that I've been using, and when i inserted the 960 (not 1060) in there, windows would automatically download the missing driver and in doing so will remove the previously installed drivers, another one of my guesses was that since it's keeping both drivers in a same directory in C: the it just removes one to sort of install a better one. Really looking forward to figuring out this issue, I have viewsonic p220f, + my dell and HP (2) P1130s that i at least wanna try and use to their full potential, at least to be able to run these at proper 2048 × 1536 resolutions. Please make another video if you can and if you find it convenient please tell me if you were able to discover any issues with the gou passthrough and if you are still doing it and how yiu managed to install drivers for both GPUs. Thank you
@@Faraz8132 You cant use both at the same time on the same computer to their fullest, passthrough cuts pci bandwidth in half, that is...if you even get it to work in the first place. Your Viewsonic P220F is the better monitor, if you wanna run it to its fullest , get a 980Ti and use the 368.81 drivers with it, you will need to disable windows auto driver installer on the control panel.
Sorry for my possible ignorance, but I use a Display Port to DVI connector for one of my old LCD display, and it works just fine, why not just use that? Or maybe Display Port to VGA, or DP to DVI to VGA in a cursed chain of adaptors? :D
I currently use a display port to vga adapter and it works for the most part but I can't get the most out of my monitor because the adapter has a max pixel clock of 165Mhz. I'm currently running it at 2160 x 1620i at 68Hz, but my monitor can actually run that exact resolution at 110Hz, but 110Hz requires a pixel clock of 266Mhz, a Direct connection to a VGA gpu can give you like 300Mhz to work with, and finding a high quality adapter is really hard or impossible in some countries. I live in a third world country and it would be literally cheaper to get a 2nd gpu than to import a high quality adapter. I'm not sure about interlacing but I think using a 2nd gpu can allow you to use interlacing because nvidia stopped supporting them after the 10series and AMD the RX 500 series. Interlacing is a game changer because you can run high resolutions and framerates at the same time instead of trading one for the other
Still here! I've been watching the XG2431 really closely, but it's not available on Amazon. There are a few posts on BlurBusters with pursuit shots, and the 60 Hz strobing looks really good. Hey ViewSonic, if you see this, I'd happily accept a review unit! :)
Matrox had best RAMDACs but only for the time. They did 10bit when competition had 8-bit. Not sure bandwidth but there are more modern cards which with pixel clock patched drivers can do past 600MHz at 10-bit. At some time manufacturers didn't even go past 400MHz in supported specs because there were no CRTs which required faster clocks but chips could easily push more. Also no: no Windows 10 WDDM drivers for old matrox cards.
Why do you say you're stuck with 2015 graphics performance forever? Could you not do this with a modern rtx 3070 and a 980 ti? I can't see why that would bottleneck you?
Can this be done with the vga port on the motherboard for those cpus that have an onboard gpu? My i5-8400 has on board gpu. My asrock h310m-hdv motherboard has a vga port
Yes. I even did 480i60 and 576i50 using VGA output from iGPU (Core i9 9900K ). Heck I was testing lowest possible refresh rate and PVM can be made to display 24Hz movies without any frame skipping at 48Hz interlaced. Resolution can be slightly better than 576 lines at 50Hz. It is also possible to get better refresh rate than 60Hz and especially by dropping lines - I was however not able to get 400 interlaced lines at 70Hz on my PVM. If I could then it would mean it should be possible to by using 200p70 run DOS games natively on 15KHz CRT - which would be glorious.
By that time there were almost no GPUs with VGA output. DVI-I + adapter is your best bet. This is passive adapter and should not degrade image quality - at least nothing you could actually see.
This is a little confusing to me. I don't really understand why you say this is a new feature, or requires a very recent version of Windows. I think it's been pretty standard for Windows 10 for a long time. I've been doing this very same thing on Windows for years now. Very frequently, I play Zdoom or even UT 2004 on my Intel CPU's integrated graphics while waiting on other players in various MMORPGs. I've also been able to play games on a GeForce GPU outputting to a monitor connected to the Intel GPU.
Yeah, I mentioned that it's been in Windows 10 for a while, but that only works for integrated graphics. So people with Ryzen CPUs can't use the feature, and even with my 7700k (which has integrated graphics, just very slow integrated graphics), my motherboard doesn't have analog out, so I can't use it to drive the CRT. Interestingly, there are a few BioStar motherboards, Z490, that still include VGA out! I think the other brands like ASUS and Gigabyte have completely dropped VGA. For Zdoom and Unreal (nice!), how are you connecting your integrated graphics? Is that to a CRT?
@@ApertureGrille No, I sadly don't have room on my desk for a CRT. I have a BenQ XL2546 240 Hz low-latency blur-reducing LCD as my primary gaming display, so I don't miss the CRT too much. I have two displays connected to my Intel graphics using HDMI and DisplayPort, and three more displays connected to my RTX 3080, all with DisplayPort. That 7700K's integrated graphics is more competent than you think! Get the latest driver direct from Intel's site and you'll be surprised how capable it is, hehe.
I don't have the monitor anymore (I sold most of the screens I reviewed), but you can either use a program called Custom Resolution Utility or just use the custom resolution option in the NVIDIA control panel. Because it's an overclock, you can't be guaranteed to hit 170 Hz, but you can probably go above 144. Try adding a custom resolution, and increase the refresh rate by around 5 Hz at a time. For instance, try setting 1920x1080@150 Hz first to see if that works, and then keep pushing upwards. At some point, the monitor will probably say "Out of Range."
This is a novel feature, but has too many drawbacks. The added latency is a deal breaker on top of all the other downsides, as opposed to simply using an HDMI to VGA adapter.
I got a question? Can I enable super res with this? I'm thinking of running my p1130 at 1024 768 150hz with a super resolution of 2048 1536 this way I can get some good aa with a high hz. Do you think this will work?
At 1024x768@150Hz, the pixel clock is pretty low (~178 MHz), so you can probably use any old VGA adapter. But NVIDIA's DSR should work fine. I think DSR will take the highest resolution you've set in you EDID to use for the base DSR factors, so you could set it at 4x to get some nice super sampling effect.
I did on 9900K and it made zero sense compared to Delock 62967 because there is zero advantage to using VGA out of iGPU with its limited bandwidth. It is 340MHz vs almost 345MHz for Delock. Image quality is about the same. Delock is 8-bit and iGPU is also 8-bit. On AMd cards I always have dithering and it looks even better with this Delock at 8-bit than native 10-bit out of GTX 980Ti at 10bit. It is possible to enable dithering on Nvidia cards but its rather bothersome and can disable itself after computer goes and wakes up from sleep. Anyways, hardly any advantage to using iGPU - other than if you don't have any VGA adapter but you have iGPU you can potentially play games using discrete GPU.
Make sure your gpu is stull supported. 🤣 trying a 8500gt for vga with my 2080ti did NOT work. It defaulted to a windows display driver and wouldnt recognize either. Installing the 2080ti driver though got me going. (Because some crts wont work even with adaptors) my HT1626 dell on one adaptor works in TV(component) mode but not in VGA mode. (In tv mode its locked at 60fps)
For Nvidia you can only install one driver so both GPUs need to be supported by one driver version so older GPUs won't be good. From ATi you should be fine with anything that still works in Windows 10/11 because it is different driver. BTW. Fun fact - if you have two monitors active and they use different driver then you get performance of desktop... wait for it... improved :D There was 'optimization' made bakc in Windows 7 that saves memory used for keeping content of windows for compositing. It saved some memory - 50 to 200 MB and at the same time made some GUI operations slower. It is possible to get this old Vista's behavior of having copy in system ram by using two GPU drivers. In some cases this can make very visible difference in speed of drawing GUI's in programs. For years I specifically used Intel iGPU to drive secondary monitor to just get this effect. These times it makes less difference though... but it is fun when program paints still slower than it did on Vista on few times slower CPU. And let's not even mention XP cause it was just another dimension in GUI performance :)
technically yes, but I think you should get an AMD analog gpu instead, getting interlaced working on nvidia sucks and is a long process, and you have to do this process every time you want to run an interlaced res. Also you can do this on windows 10, but you won't be able to select the gpu you want the application to render with. It's also a pain to get an app to use a render gpu. Windows 11 allows you to simply the render gpu.
@@jskilabe5986 so you recommend me to use An Amd analog gpu plus my 1660 ??? Am I right ? In that case what gpu would be a good one .. or could be also use and actual amd gpu plus the gt 710 .. it would work???
@@ElMarroc87 you cant use 2 gpus from the same manufacturer, the drivers will overwrite themselves, also nvidia sucks at using interlacing resolutions. trust me when I tell you interlacing is very important to get the most out of anything smaller than a 21" monitor
I tested it. My conclusion: It can work. but note make sure you have a ton of pcie lanes/bandwidth to work with, because I tried this with a pcie 1x riser and it basically kneecapped my fps, im getting around 20 fps at 1600x1200. I'm going to install win11 and test to see if my results differ
I tried it on win11 and win11 is a lot easier to get working because you can select the rendering gpu unlike in win10. I tried with win10 and it's not worth doing this in win 10, it's too much work because you have to have 1 monitor connected to the analog gpu and 1 to the rendering gpu, then you need to start the game on the rendering gpu's monitor, then move it to the analog display. in Win11 you can select the rendering gpu and dont have to go through the long process of having 2 monitors connected to 2 gpus and moving things around.
once you get to the 90kHz range you will start to feel the pinch of the adapter, unless you have a decent adapter. I have a 165mhz adapter and the pinch is real, I'm running like 60% of the refresh that my monitor can handle at specific resolutions because of the pixel clock limitation
For anyone wondering, I think this is now a standard feature in Windows 11. I just upgraded from 10 and it's just there, and almost completely undocumented/unmentioned. One of the most underrated features imo
Can you tell me more about this? Where do you set it up, is it in settings?
@@lucille404it's in the graphics tab in Windows. You can select a specific gpu on a game by game basis
I can't see anything in the settings about t it what version of win 11 you running
@@ADSteam1994 not sure, just the most recent stable I guess. But do you have 2 dedicated gpu's? The extra option won't show up with one dedicated and one integrated for example. But then you can just use the og setting
@@kaas3530can I add an nvidia card with an amd card ? will the two drivers work independently not affecting each other ?
OMG, I FINALLY FOUND THE VIDEO ABOUT THIS TOPIC. I was trying to do my own tests between monitor plugged into gpu directly and monitor plugged into motherboard (so the picture was passing through my cpu graphics), but the camera wasn't fast enough to caprute the difference. Thank you very much for doing all the tests!
I've wondered whether integrated GPU passthrough were possible!
soo, is it possible to do this with an only dedicated graphic card by passing it to through the motherboard??
You can't notice a 3ms delay by looks but you can feel 1/60 of a frame which is 0.26 ms since 60hz/60fps= 16.66666ms so 16.66666÷60= 0.26ms . I know this because I did a gpu pass through with duplicate screens. I recorded the results with a high speed camera because when I was playing I could feel some lag on the crt. What suprised me is that the lag was only 1/60 fps. The crt when pressing pause on screen was behind 1hz/frame vs my lcd monitor.
i love deep dives into esoteric graphics stuff like this. thanks my dude
Great informative video!!!! This is some of the exact stuff I have been looking for, specifically the VGA adapters for running on newer cards. I'm glad to see it's virtually lagless vs native analog signal generators onboard the rendering graphics card. Great to see!
There's a lot of good stuff in the HardForum thread, but I'm too cheap to keep purchasing adapters for testing. I've so far found the 980 Ti to be totally sufficient.... mostly because I play a lot of older titles.
@@ApertureGrille Call me crazy, but since Windows 11 is now publicly out, I kinda wanna see an update video from you on this topic with a slightly more advanced PC testing setup to see where things could be further refined. There’s always going to be a PCI-Express x8 bottleneck with installing two PCI-E x16 graphics cards on a lot of mainstream chipset motherboards like the one you used, with the 16-lane bandwidth being bifurcated between the two main slots. Maybe for the update video you could get an Intel Core i9 10850K CPU and X299 chipset motherboard and see if the increased PCI-E Lane bandwidth can actually benefit the GPU passthrough pipeline with two fully-discrete PCI-Express x16 slots for both cards?
Also in the update, I’d like to see you swap out the two cards that were used here with turbo blower-style versions of the GeForce GTX 980 or 980 Ti or Titan X (Maxwell) and the GeForce RTX 3080 or 3090 (Ampere) for two reasons:
1: The open-air coolers are not optimised for proper airflow with two cards stacked so tightly together, as both cards end up recycling warm air from each other, which hurts the airflow and negatively impacts performance, whereas blower coolers actually benefit from cramped multi-GPU setups, pulling air from the front of the case and exhausting it through the back without deteriorating each other’s performance (th-cam.com/video/x0FTAFhnh3E/w-d-xo.html).
2: There still aren’t too many native ray-tracing games out there quite yet, but I I think it’d be interesting to see how the Ampere card can stack on performance with a CRT and whether or not the GPU passthrough pipeline can allow ray-tracing games to take full direct advantage of the Ampere ray-tracing cores at maximum settings on the CRT monitor’s highest native resolution.
I think you should retest the games you’ve played in this video on the new setup, as well as add more games for a bit of variety:
The Sims 4
Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Need for Speed Hot Pursuit Remastered
Forza Horizon 5
Marvel’s Guardians Of the Galaxy
Watch Dogs Legion
The Medium
Minecraft Bedrock Edition
Metro Exodus
Life Is Strange True Colors
Cyberpunk 2077
Hitman 3
@@ApertureGrille GTX980Ti does not support Resizable BAR.
Such a good quality video. Liked and subbed. I really hope you do more CRT contents like this in the future with newer/older/classic games.
I've had this exact pass-through idea kicking around in my head for weeks and i FINALLY come across this video to prove to me that not only is it possible but it exists and works. I'm about to put a high end CRT into service as a secondary screen and my adapter is like 95% reliable for what i'm trying to do. This, on the other hand, is EXACTLY what I want to do. Gonna take some work but i think it'll be worth the effort. Thank you!
Please tell us how it worked out! I'm quite happy with the "Benfei" DAC which is seen in the beginning of this video because you can raise the pixelclock in CRU so you dont run in the arbitrary 165Mhz limit which is common on these adapters.(I have mine on 300Mhz without issues but ymmv as always)
What seems to be impossible with these adapters, or I guess modern GPUs, is running interlaced resolutions which I'm interested in for max Hz modern gaming. I'm hoping that GPU passthrough with a GTX 750 as analog out would let me properly use all the functions of my crt. Im on an amd system intending to use an old nvidia card as a glorified DAC.
The GTX 980 Ti it's not that bad for simpler games, for new heavy games this is a nice option.
No need to select every game to run on the modern GPU, hunt the ones the 980 Ti can't handle.
Oh thank god this is a thing now. I can finally get a CRT and an old radeon card. 240p gaming here I come!
My man, you are a fucking legendary wizard of CRTs!
This is outstanding, I can't believe I've finally found this video. This is SO in depth. You're now my favorite CRT channel. (Sorry LGR I still love you very much) Edit: Holy fffffffffffffffffffffffff that (low)latency is insane!
I also have a EVGA 980 ti bought second hand, stored in a box somewhere. For newer gpus, I just use a hdmi/vga converter and have zero issues with it.
There are DP->VGA+HDMI combo adapters that can reach 600mhz, I don't have one though and they're bit pricey too
I've been super tempted to try some of the adapters that Derupter mentioned in that HardForum thread, but importing adapters from Europe, especially how much some of them cost, is putting me off. And at least for right now, my 980 Ti works OK for most games, especially at CRT resolutions.
@@ApertureGrille I bought the Sunix DPU 3000 myself but I've heard that you can get a Delock or an IcyBox for way cheaper. If they look like the Sunix 3000, they -probably- have the same chip (VMM2322, I think). That or you just use a cheaper active adapter and use Custom Resolution Utility to downclock the refresh rate, so the adapter can handle it.
@@ApertureGrille Startech DP2VGAHD20 is easily available US under $30 and can push ~375MHz
@@Kaelidoz Do you know if using an adapter worsens the CRT's blacks in any way?
@@zuubu Some of them cause black crush like Tendak I found.
Hope your speakers are shielded! Great vid!
If the PCI-E gets cut in half, wouldn't it be better to just use integrated graphics to display the signal through the VGA connector of the motherboard? and then use the full 16 lanes for the processing power of the dedicated gpu in Windows 11.
You can also run to a another PCIe slot that doesn't share bandwidth with the main x16 slot. So a random x1 or x4 slot.
I’ve searched and search and your video just came up on my feed. Brilliantly video.
man, the trouble i had with my fw900 and my radeon r9 290
i was *THIS* close to shell out the obscene amount of money for an HD Fury
if only this was available back then
edit: this also kinda reminds me running an amd gpu with as nvidia one for physx when that was still a thing haha
I think some people in the HardForum thread have had success with the HD Fury, but it's a bit too pricey for me. And there are quite a few adapters that are only available in Europe, so I haven't tried those.
I'm mostly happy with the 980 Ti, since I play a lot of older games, but your R9 290 is a bit older...
The Benfei adapter I show in the video can do around 350 MHz pixel clock, but only in YCbCr, which is not ideal for setting custom resolutions.
Imagine having trouble testing input lag in existing shooter games, so you went ahead and made your own. Absolute madlad!!!
Also, since FSR has been seamlessly integrated into the sample game, could you do the same for the DLSS plugin?
I'm hoping to release this relatively soon, and it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to add DLSS, but the problem is that I don't have an RTX card, so I can't actually see if it works!
The "game" portion will be bundled with Frog Pursuit, which now supports custom user patterns, so ideally, with both FSR and DLSS, users could add in their own images and compare DLSS to FSR really easily.
Bought EVGA Hybrid 980Ti WC with 2017 Tax Money (800$). Year later, added BIOS voltage, & GPU/MEM OC & Liquid Metal mods. Furmark pulls 420w (in gpuz) with steady 70c, she ran 420w+ 3 days straight no issues (furmark for the weekend while I was gone). She kept ticking with games and video encoding until I sold it in 2023.
980Ti is a king in my books
Do you think you could make an updated version of this video, with a newer gaming test rig with either an RTX 4090 or a RX 7900 XT as the render GPU, and testing out older GPUs to decide which ones to recommend for the VGA/DVI-I output?
Using second GPU to act as VGA adapter is not recommended... by anyone ever.
From good cheap solutions I recommend Delock 62967. Great image quality for what it is and has bandwidth of 340-350MHz.
I don't recommend StarTech HD2DPVGADVI due to rather poor image quality. There are some other options with varying quality - best to check that FW900 topic mentioned in video description. Topic of using second GPU was raised there also.
I'm curious how much resolution your trinitron can actually resolve. I have a similar 21inch dell one that I found could only resolve 1280x1024 resolution without a fine grid pattern turning into a mixed up flat grey. I get supersampling is great but I was very happy knowing I had some more GPU juice left over from all the saved pixel rendering work.
RTX 2070 / GT 710 pairing.
Last time I used a CRT it did very well, BUT Nvidia dropped 600 and 700 serie support, so my 710 went invisible to any software. I wonder if it'll still work...
Checked 5 months later (I am sick) and it doesn't.
I have seen a forum talking about getting freesync working on some CRT’s over cru. It would be cool to see a video on this.
Been looking for something like this! I upgraded to a new pc this year and was thinking about sticking my old GPU in there (or in an external enclosure) with my shiny new 4070 for exactly this purpose when i eventually get a CRT. Didn't know this was an actual Windows feature 🤔
This was really awesome, thanks for the insights. Hope to see more videos from you!
You don't need the best DSUB card to do it. I have a 3070Ti with a HD5450 next to it, which is only 512MB.
Still works great, GTAV about at max setting, 140FPS, despite working at PCI-E 1.1 X4 mode for some reason.
The 3070Ti is running at PCI-E 4.0 X16.
I want to change the 5450 for another card which also has S-Video Output to be also able to use it with CRT TV.
All ATI HD 4000 gpus have S-Video output.
Would it be possible to pass through the motherboard's integrated VGA output?
I use a 1060 gtx and a 960 gtx. As far as I am aware my 1060 is rendering all my games, even if I put the game on my CRT. But my CRT is connected to the 960. I've seen some people online say they weren't able to get this to work, and others have said they also do this with no problems. I feel their pain, I can't get interlaced working to save my life on my setup. And others said they can get it working with no issues.
I think a key difference between what I am doing, and what you are doing in your video, is that I do have monitors hooked up to my 1060 gtx. Just not my CRT specifically. And my main display is an LCD that is running the 1060 gtx. So this sort of tricks windows into rendering everything with the 1060, since it is the main GPU. Hope that makes sense.
@@copper4eva I've also had trouble getting interlaced working. I had it working at one point, but either a Windows update or new NVIDIA drivers caused it to stop working, and I can't get it back!
With your setup, Windows may be doing something like what OpenGL was doing on my system. But I can only get that to work in OpenGL, not anything else. I'll admit that I don't really understand fully what WDM and the display driver are doing, so I can't really troubleshoot this.
@@ApertureGrille
I plan on moving my desktop to Linux one of these days. Hopefully this makes getting interlaced and such working easier.
I also might switch to an AMD setup one day, since they have open source drivers for Linux. But right now GPU's are expensive.
Same problem!!! Was able to push 120hz easy on display scaling now higher refeesh rate work only with gpu scaling but so much latency in shooters … nvdia have fucked up againnnn
I was just thinking about this in the early hours of this morning. I was on ebay looking at a Titan X Maxell, and thinking about using it for pass through.
Cool video! Fyi the NVIDIA control panel let's you pick which GPU is doing the rendering and then you can set your second weaker GPU basically as an extra output passthrough.
wait, how can i do this?, i have an nvidia gt 440 lying around, and i wanna use it for the older outputs, and my 3070 to do the rendering. So can i do it, from the nvidia panel?
@@lowserver2 yep! It's in the nvidia control panel. I can't remember specifically where off the top of my head, but it's in there!
Here's an idea for next video: resolution scaling, gpu vs display latency.
Ive been using windows 10 480p output over HDMI, and downscaling that signal with a pre-built GBS-C (~100$, much cheaper if you have the skills to make one). I find this is a little more elegant, because the software fiddling is minimal, and all i need to do is send the HDMI out. Only issue is that the GBS-C can have handshake issues with this signal coming from a PC over HDMI. Best solution ive found is to send the signal through an HDMI splitter first to force a more solid handshake to the GBS-C. Is it the best way in the world to do this? No. But it gets me 240p without incurring too much lag, so i love with it
Would this work with a 1660 and a geforce 210?
Really cool and interesting video!
Would be nice to see you do some videos about the OSSC (open source scan converter).
What dvi to vga adapter are you using here?
Doesn't the HDMI adapter adding zero lag make using these old cards moot?
Have you heard of InnoSilicon’s Fantasy One Type A GPU? It is a brand new card with a VGA output. I don’t know when it will be available or how good it is. But it should be something to pay attention to for us CRT users. Would you consider reviewing this?
quality content as always!
Can i used the integrated gpu of my cpu for passthrough? , most mid range motherboards have an analog out, if i could use the igpu from my processor, i wouldn't have to giveup any pci-e lanes to another gpu, this should reduce the performance loss massively.
While it's great to have more support and options, and have this awsome ability at the OS level, so it's for sure an upgrade, Nvidia has offered this capability for years through OPTIMUS, it allows you to do the same thing, output from one card and render from another, Nvidia Experience now has this capability built in, just select which GPU you want to use before booting the game, s small GPU icon in the taskbar will indicate which GPU is in use, AMD GPU's have switchable graphics", allowing you to select which GPU you want each application to use, great for either sparing your battery or main desktop GPU when so much power isn't needed, Nvidia has the added bonus of allowing you to use the second NV GPU as a PhysX accelerator, giving a good 15% FPS boost in some games, so there is more than one reason to have and extra VGA GPU in your gaming RIG.
Interesting considerations, thanks for sharing.
Thank You I actually Have this exact problem! I think I might upgrade my Ryzen 3700x to 5600g apu or 5700g apu when I can afford it. Your amazing! My mobo has a DVI output for an apu I'm going to wait for a non beta build of windows and more info on this feature working with AMD apu and Nvidia gpu but this is some amazing news for CRT Monitor lovers that want to play the latest games on their monitors.
Is the DVI connector on the motherboard DVI-I? There should be four little pins surrounding the large, flat pin. This technique can be used right now, even on Windows 10, with integrated graphics, as long as the motherboard has the correct connector on the back. My Z270 board, for instance, has DVI out, but it's DVI-D, so I can't use it to connect the CRT.
@@ApertureGrille hello, for me selecting a specific gpu does not show up. the options of power saving and high performance show the same integrated gpu even if i have a rx 550 connected to the motherboard. conveniently the integrated gpu already has a vga port so i can use that. but how do i make the option, of specific gpu selection, show?
Hey, Awesome vid as always a5hun. Something that I was hoping you would do on here however when comparing analog solutions was to compare the latency of DP:VGA adaptors to that of VGA passthroughs from the motherboard, as finding DVI, VGA is still very commonly found today on gaming motherboards expecting an iGPU compatible CPU. Seeming as the display adaptor from iGPUs was created for the sole purpose of passing through an external video source from either an external GPU or CPU (such as the layout you commonly find on laptops today), it would make sense and would be a much cheaper option for those with PC motherboards that are still today rocking on-board VGA for this kind of passthrough to have less latency then either a passthrough GPU, or that from an adaptor like what you’ve tested on this video. I’d love to see a video on this option if the results are response-worthy.
Hah, I see two copies of this!
Using the on-board VGA out may work with less latency. I haven't tested it, but that 3 ms of lag may get cut in half (down to 1.5 ms) since there would be one less trip over PCIe.
I'd love to test this as well, but I actually can't! My ASUS Z270 board has DVI out, but it's DVI-D, so it can't handle analog. And my only other PC is a Ryzen, so it doesn't have any integrated graphics.
I've been having a hard time finding modern motherboards with DVI-I. I know there are some BioStar motherboards that still include it, but I think most of the big guys, Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI, etc., have completely dropped DVI-I from the majority of their boards.
What motherboard do you have?
@@ApertureGrille >"Hah, I see two copies of this!"
Very sorry about that, delete them if you want, since I still cannot see them on here.
>"I've been having a hard time finding modern motherboards..."
My current PC's a core i7-9700K, 16GB, RTX 2070, and the mobo's a ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4-CB. My mobo features VGA, DVI, as well as HDMI as mobo ports, (and with VGA) as do all my previous motherboards thus far.
@@Dantakurai Oh, wow. That ASRock does have VGA out! The DVI is DVI-D, but it does have proper VGA. Nice.
Looking through ASRock's new boards, they don't have any Z590 motherboards with VGA, but there are a few B560 and H510 boards with it. Not sure I'd want one of those, though. :)
@@ApertureGrille I suppose they're getting more sparse now. Still though, I expect these order boards to potentially be a great option for CRT gamers that happen to find an older CPU. I know that despite me not being able to get my GTS 240 to work with my RTX card using windows 10, I was able to get an external image onto my CRT monitor with my main monitor running on my RTX card, I still wouldn't know how to get onboard VGA to work as a passthrough though, I just know that laptops use drivers for them so I assume I could get one of those to work potentially as well whenever I want to whip out the CRT again.
Yes this is what I do! I have an Asus B550 with VGA out going to a crt, with a 4800g cpu. My main GPU is a 6700xt, and until now I havent been able to use it for gaming on the CRT. Is the set render GPU option available to Windows 10 now without using the insider build? Would love to try this!
I have a Sunix DPU 3000 adapter plugged directly to my Sony CPD-G520 monitors VGA input with a male-male VGA genderswapper, or whatever those are called. I tested this adapter to still display an image at around 540mHz pixel clock.
Out of curiosity, how many usage hours your Dell CRT have? My G520 has 7080hrs and my IBM P275 has 7600. Both are still able to hit the 112 nits targeted on WinDAS white point procedure.
Thank you so much for making this video
How does GPU passthrough latency compare to a conventional flat panel?
great video ! thanks!
First time seeing a video from you: NEW SUBSCRIBER HERE!
Will you please revisit this topic to see if the situation is improved now or not?
I'm so glad i kept my 780
Admittedly, I tried watching the video and I got lost due to all of the terminology I don't understand. Essentially, I'm trying to game on a CRT with a PC that has an RTX 3070. I would like to get one of those high end DACs to convert my Display Port to VGA, but they're impossible to find anywhere. So I was recommended this video to try the passport. Could someone just give me a summary of what I'd need to do to get this setup? There are a few MSI 980Tis near me that I could possibly buy if someone explains it well enough that I can understand.
Get another GPU, make sure both GPUs are running at 16x or at least 8x mode.
connect CRT to other GPU.
in Windows 11 select main GPU as the the specific gpu to run the application.
voila!
Still use my 21" IBM CRT with my old 980ti as my main card^^ And a 1070 isn't really faster than a 980ti, but it has more VRAM. And probably uses less energy^^
Oh wow! This is some exciting stuff!
This is awesome! Do linux mint next! 😂
I am running the Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SB with an RTX 2080. I am using a delock displayport to VGA adaptor and I have no issues. I can hit 163hz at 800x600 and 74hz at 1920x1440 which is the monitors max hz for the resolutions.
There’s native signal resolution and desktop resolution they have to match or defaults to the lowest being native resolution your prob running it at 1080
I have an EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SC GAMING ACX 2.0 (what a mouthful) and an Sony E200 (1600x1200 @ 60Hz). I find when the GPU is under heavy load, there's noticeable interference and noise on in the image in the form of dark horizontal lines moving up and down the screen. The lines are especially noticeable on solid coloured backgrounds.
It happens on VGA LCD monitors too, and it has happened in every house I've lived in (so it's not the house electricity wiring).
Is this a problem you've experienced with your 980 Ti?
I'm under the impression that my 970 just has very poor shielding on the analog section, and when high power is drawn into the video card, the interference occurs.
The best solution I've found to this is to use a HDMI to VGA adapter, which is a real shame because it would be nice to use the VGA straight out of the video card.
Are there any other solutions to this? (I don't want to do the GPU passthrough thing, if the 970 is at 50% load I'd be worried there'd still be noise.)
I've never seen that. All the cards that I have (GTX 260, GTX 570, GTX 980 Ti) all have nice and clean analog out. I even have an old Radeon 5450 that has very good signal quality from its VGA port. And what's weirder is that my 980 Ti is an EVGA SC.
One lucky thing, though, is that your HDMI adapter more than likely adds zero lag, and since you're only running at 1600x1200 at 85Hz, you're not really running up against the pixel clock limits for the DAC.
@@ApertureGrille Maybe it's just my 970 at fault then. If GPU prices every settle down, I may look for a 980 Ti and see if I can get a cleaner signal that way.
I don't get it. Why do you consider tearing to be desirable on a CRT? Would you elaborate on that please?
Curious, does the passthrough feature require a motherboard that is sli/crossfire compatible?
3060 "inexpensive"
? What?
welcome back to youtube
Haha. Thank you! Sorry for the... long delay.
Also where can we get the latest and GREATST beta version of your Frog Pursuit? :) Please!
Should be coming out soon! I'm just making sure all the bugs are completely fixed. I showed the new menu in the video, but Frog Pursuit will now be bundled 3D FPS and Smooth Rotator.
The new version is way better than the old version. You can now add you own images for panning!
Is there a reason to be using a GPU like the 980 or Titan X when doing the passthrough? Or can you actually get away with something much older and perhaps passively cooled?
I don't have an insider build, but it's been out for so long that I'm surprised it's not in the main build yet. Do I still need to do an insider build to get this feature, even a few years later?
What about someone who has a 3080Ti wanting to do up to 1440x1080 at up to 85Hz? I'm not even getting a full GigaByte/sec per the calculation in the bandwidth chapter of the vid.
What about component/composite out??? to drive CRT TVs???
The last GPU to have 7 pin S-Video was the GTX 285, to my knowledge thats the fastest GPU with Composite/Component out via S-Video.
Would this work with a GTX 285 + Modern AMD GPU? I dont think u can pair a OLD Nvidia GPU with a new one because of drivers problems, but u could try GTX 285 + More modern AMD card and see if that works...
Not worth it, just go straight dvi-i, the last amd card is the r9 380x. Youll get the benifits of a better card (and just incase 15khz works excellently, via crtemudriver)
@@battokizu But how do u go from DVI-I to component?
@@rodrigofilho1996DVI to component adapter??
amd and nvidia should have kept an analog vga option on their cards. it literally cost $0.10 to implement it, also their cards are big enough.
For sure, they've been eliminating features from their GPUs for years, like making it impossible to use interlaced resolutions or using 240p/480i@60hz, y'know things that you might want to do with CRT screens and these are totally artificial limitations imposed by them. It sucks.
Hey, has someone a hint for me: I am running a 454 iiyama on my 960GTX, and the other card 4080 currently, should do the rendering. I have 2 other monitors connected to the 4080.
i try running BG3, Cyberpunk, or RDR2, but it does not seam to work. I have to choose the graphics driver for each game in the graphics settings, but if I choose the 4080 I can’t choose the iiyama as the display :(
Maybe someone has a tip, or a reference for me I can try out. Thanks in advance. (Tried to switch windows+shift+arrow key)
Have you tried setting your iiyama display as your main display?
@@jskilabe5986 hey thanks for the suggestions, I tried doing that, but it had something to do with the other displays. Some Games just did not want to recognize the iiyama, if there was a connection to different monitors connected to the 4080. I will post my current settings and setup below.
I have the iiyama, and optional other monitors solely connected to the 960, not to the 4080 anymore. I also moved away from the approach to always have 3 monitors connected when gaming, or even in general. It has something calming to focus on one screen, and I didn't even realize it beforehand, but multiple connected monitor evoke some kind of pressure.. Might be all work related (working as a developer).. Either way: all games are set to render their graphics with a specific CPU, namely the 4080, and the output is forced over the 960, because everything is connected here. This works like a charm, with some minor issues here and there, sometimes the framerate is caped to a specific value, mainly in microsoft games. It helps to keep something like FPS counter up top from the gamebar to fix that. And it really helped to set a specific resolution and Hz for my monitor with the resolution tool. don't use the Nvidia scaling tools, always rely on your hardware for that. Questions? Please shoot, I try to answer the comment is already quite long haha
Wow awesome I'm already thinking of potential uses, like using a 1080ti with amd integer scaling or hdmi freesync.
Seems like there's a lot of cool stuff you could do with this. I was going to get an old AMD card with FreeSync to test the same thing Julio did, but even old graphics cards are too expensive!
@@ApertureGrille pass through is great for emulators too. my pc uses a rtx 2080 for games and an amd hd6540.
The amd card can output 480i and 240p to a crt tv using crtemudriver.
@@robbyjvc How does passthrough work with AMD and Nvidia? Do you need to install drivers for each GPU? (can you even install them both on the same PC?) I'd like to attempt using AMD's integer scaling while using my 1050ti as my main GPU.
@@qbxcv I have drivers for the nvidia and amd card installed. But the amd driver is called crtemudriver. Which lets windows do 480i. And before it was installed, both cards could output video. It still should be handled similarly with a stock amd driver, and the setting should be where it is in this video.
If you wanna output 480i to a crt tv through one of those cards, you'll have to do a few more steps.
so adapters dont have lag?? thats weird because i do feel like there is some lag with my startech DP2VGAHD20 with displayport on crt at 160hz while playing osu
I am a year late but i have a stupid question nobody has asked here
How did you manage to install drivers on both GPUs? apeartly, it only installs driver for one, and if you go on and try installing for the other one it will remove the previous drivers you had just installed
Maybe it's becuase they are generations apart but I tried Pairing 3080 with 1060 but couldn't do it so i am stuck with my old R9 380 which ofcource has different drivers beacuse it's from a different vendor
PLease answer if you can.
How do i install drivers for both Nvidia Graphics Cards?
Thank you
Hmm. That's weird. I didn't have any issue with the driver. The video is fairly old, but both cards were enabled at the same time without any sort of driver trickery. And your 1060 and 3080 should definitely both be supported!
@@ApertureGrille what's been happening with me is. I already had 3080 in there that I've been using, and when i inserted the 960 (not 1060) in there, windows would automatically download the missing driver and in doing so will remove the previously installed drivers, another one of my guesses was that since it's keeping both drivers in a same directory in C: the it just removes one to sort of install a better one.
Really looking forward to figuring out this issue,
I have viewsonic p220f, + my dell and HP (2) P1130s that i at least wanna try and use to their full potential, at least to be able to run these at proper 2048 × 1536 resolutions.
Please make another video if you can and if you find it convenient please tell me if you were able to discover any issues with the gou passthrough and if you are still doing it and how yiu managed to install drivers for both GPUs.
Thank you
@@Faraz8132
You cant use both at the same time on the same computer to their fullest, passthrough cuts pci bandwidth in half, that is...if you even get it to work in the first place.
Your Viewsonic P220F is the better monitor, if you wanna run it to its fullest , get a 980Ti and use the 368.81 drivers with it, you will need to disable windows auto driver installer on the control panel.
Would this work with motherboards equipped with VGA out ? (using an APU of course)
Sorry for my possible ignorance, but I use a Display Port to DVI connector for one of my old LCD display, and it works just fine, why not just use that? Or maybe Display Port to VGA, or DP to DVI to VGA in a cursed chain of adaptors? :D
I currently use a display port to vga adapter and it works for the most part but I can't get the most out of my monitor because the adapter has a max pixel clock of 165Mhz. I'm currently running it at 2160 x 1620i at 68Hz, but my monitor can actually run that exact resolution at 110Hz, but 110Hz requires a pixel clock of 266Mhz, a Direct connection to a VGA gpu can give you like 300Mhz to work with, and finding a high quality adapter is really hard or impossible in some countries. I live in a third world country and it would be literally cheaper to get a 2nd gpu than to import a high quality adapter.
I'm not sure about interlacing but I think using a 2nd gpu can allow you to use interlacing because nvidia stopped supporting them after the 10series and AMD the RX 500 series.
Interlacing is a game changer because you can run high resolutions and framerates at the same time instead of trading one for the other
@@jskilabe5986 Supports VGA 225MHZ Tudia USB-C to VGA Amazon
i use a displayport to vga for my dell p1130. i run it at 1024x768@155hz and 1440x1080@100hz
@45 images par seconde progressive ofc
@45 images par seconde it's obviously crt ( why else do you think i commented)
@45 images par seconde IT CAN!!!
Fuck me I thought you were gone.
Btw viewsonic xg2431?
Still here! I've been watching the XG2431 really closely, but it's not available on Amazon. There are a few posts on BlurBusters with pursuit shots, and the 60 Hz strobing looks really good. Hey ViewSonic, if you see this, I'd happily accept a review unit! :)
Hey,does your fps game has async reprojection?
How to connect the PC to a PVM monitor using Component cables though?
brother, about adapters, can you test displayport to vga VS hdmi to vga input lag? ty so much!
Is it possible to use Matrox GPU for this? They should have the best RAMDACs available.
Matrox had best RAMDACs but only for the time. They did 10bit when competition had 8-bit.
Not sure bandwidth but there are more modern cards which with pixel clock patched drivers can do past 600MHz at 10-bit.
At some time manufacturers didn't even go past 400MHz in supported specs because there were no CRTs which required faster clocks but chips could easily push more.
Also no: no Windows 10 WDDM drivers for old matrox cards.
Why do you say you're stuck with 2015 graphics performance forever? Could you not do this with a modern rtx 3070 and a 980 ti? I can't see why that would bottleneck you?
I think he means in the past; before this passthrough.
Can this be done with the vga port on the motherboard for those cpus that have an onboard gpu? My i5-8400 has on board gpu. My asrock h310m-hdv motherboard has a vga port
I think so! I was at one point looking for a modern motherboard that still had a VGA port on it. :)
@@ApertureGrille I would assume that the CPU needs to have an iGPU built in, too. 👍
15:19 How can I optimize my Windows in order to achieve lower latencies?
I want to do this, but unfortunately I built an NR200 mitx for my last go around.
will this work with an consumer CRT TV with VGA to Scart?
Yes. I even did 480i60 and 576i50 using VGA output from iGPU (Core i9 9900K ). Heck I was testing lowest possible refresh rate and PVM can be made to display 24Hz movies without any frame skipping at 48Hz interlaced. Resolution can be slightly better than 576 lines at 50Hz. It is also possible to get better refresh rate than 60Hz and especially by dropping lines - I was however not able to get 400 interlaced lines at 70Hz on my PVM. If I could then it would mean it should be possible to by using 200p70 run DOS games natively on 15KHz CRT - which would be glorious.
Does your 980 Ti have a VGA out or are you using a DVI to VGA adapter? I can't seem to find any 980 Ti with a VGA out.
By that time there were almost no GPUs with VGA output. DVI-I + adapter is your best bet. This is passive adapter and should not degrade image quality - at least nothing you could actually see.
im going to see if I can do this with a card that has s-video for a tv
Can you still do interlaced when using the passthru?
yes.
This is a little confusing to me. I don't really understand why you say this is a new feature, or requires a very recent version of Windows. I think it's been pretty standard for Windows 10 for a long time. I've been doing this very same thing on Windows for years now. Very frequently, I play Zdoom or even UT 2004 on my Intel CPU's integrated graphics while waiting on other players in various MMORPGs. I've also been able to play games on a GeForce GPU outputting to a monitor connected to the Intel GPU.
Yeah, I mentioned that it's been in Windows 10 for a while, but that only works for integrated graphics. So people with Ryzen CPUs can't use the feature, and even with my 7700k (which has integrated graphics, just very slow integrated graphics), my motherboard doesn't have analog out, so I can't use it to drive the CRT. Interestingly, there are a few BioStar motherboards, Z490, that still include VGA out! I think the other brands like ASUS and Gigabyte have completely dropped VGA.
For Zdoom and Unreal (nice!), how are you connecting your integrated graphics? Is that to a CRT?
@@ApertureGrille No, I sadly don't have room on my desk for a CRT. I have a BenQ XL2546 240 Hz low-latency blur-reducing LCD as my primary gaming display, so I don't miss the CRT too much. I have two displays connected to my Intel graphics using HDMI and DisplayPort, and three more displays connected to my RTX 3080, all with DisplayPort.
That 7700K's integrated graphics is more competent than you think! Get the latest driver direct from Intel's site and you'll be surprised how capable it is, hehe.
excellent
Wait, can I used AM4 motherboard with d-Sub + ryzen with Vega IGPU to make every GPU work on CRT like it?
OH my.... Even some AM5 MB have it.
If you do try this out, can you test these things for me?
1. Can you use interlacing resolutions?
2. are their pcie limitations like in the video?
Let me know when you figure out a lagless solution. This is not a great option if it introduces that much lag.
Can you tell me how to over clock lg24gm79g to 170hz please it's humble request
I don't have the monitor anymore (I sold most of the screens I reviewed), but you can either use a program called Custom Resolution Utility or just use the custom resolution option in the NVIDIA control panel.
Because it's an overclock, you can't be guaranteed to hit 170 Hz, but you can probably go above 144.
Try adding a custom resolution, and increase the refresh rate by around 5 Hz at a time. For instance, try setting 1920x1080@150 Hz first to see if that works, and then keep pushing upwards.
At some point, the monitor will probably say "Out of Range."
This is a novel feature, but has too many drawbacks. The added latency is a deal breaker on top of all the other downsides, as opposed to simply using an HDMI to VGA adapter.
I got a question? Can I enable super res with this? I'm thinking of running my p1130 at 1024 768 150hz with a super resolution of 2048 1536 this way I can get some good aa with a high hz. Do you think this will work?
At 1024x768@150Hz, the pixel clock is pretty low (~178 MHz), so you can probably use any old VGA adapter. But NVIDIA's DSR should work fine. I think DSR will take the highest resolution you've set in you EDID to use for the base DSR factors, so you could set it at 4x to get some nice super sampling effect.
Have you tried it with the intel integrated graphics?
I did on 9900K and it made zero sense compared to Delock 62967 because there is zero advantage to using VGA out of iGPU with its limited bandwidth. It is 340MHz vs almost 345MHz for Delock. Image quality is about the same. Delock is 8-bit and iGPU is also 8-bit. On AMd cards I always have dithering and it looks even better with this Delock at 8-bit than native 10-bit out of GTX 980Ti at 10bit. It is possible to enable dithering on Nvidia cards but its rather bothersome and can disable itself after computer goes and wakes up from sleep.
Anyways, hardly any advantage to using iGPU - other than if you don't have any VGA adapter but you have iGPU you can potentially play games using discrete GPU.
Make sure your gpu is stull supported.
🤣 trying a 8500gt for vga with my 2080ti did NOT work.
It defaulted to a windows display driver and wouldnt recognize either.
Installing the 2080ti driver though got me going.
(Because some crts wont work even with adaptors) my HT1626 dell on one adaptor works in TV(component) mode but not in VGA mode.
(In tv mode its locked at 60fps)
For Nvidia you can only install one driver so both GPUs need to be supported by one driver version so older GPUs won't be good. From ATi you should be fine with anything that still works in Windows 10/11 because it is different driver.
BTW. Fun fact - if you have two monitors active and they use different driver then you get performance of desktop... wait for it... improved :D
There was 'optimization' made bakc in Windows 7 that saves memory used for keeping content of windows for compositing. It saved some memory - 50 to 200 MB and at the same time made some GUI operations slower. It is possible to get this old Vista's behavior of having copy in system ram by using two GPU drivers. In some cases this can make very visible difference in speed of drawing GUI's in programs. For years I specifically used Intel iGPU to drive secondary monitor to just get this effect. These times it makes less difference though... but it is fun when program paints still slower than it did on Vista on few times slower CPU. And let's not even mention XP cause it was just another dimension in GUI performance :)
Can you use those intel gpus found in mobos for pass through? They usually have/had vga output
It is possible to do this with a GTX 1660 + a GT 710 and windows 10???
technically yes, but I think you should get an AMD analog gpu instead, getting interlaced working on nvidia sucks and is a long process, and you have to do this process every time you want to run an interlaced res.
Also you can do this on windows 10, but you won't be able to select the gpu you want the application to render with. It's also a pain to get an app to use a render gpu. Windows 11 allows you to simply the render gpu.
@@jskilabe5986 so you recommend me to use An Amd analog gpu plus my 1660 ??? Am I right ? In that case what gpu would be a good one .. or could be also use and actual amd gpu plus the gt 710 .. it would work???
@@jskilabe5986 I installed W10 insider just to try this but I simply don't have the option. Is it worth to switch to W11 just for this?
@@ElMarroc87 you cant use 2 gpus from the same manufacturer, the drivers will overwrite themselves, also nvidia sucks at using interlacing resolutions. trust me when I tell you interlacing is very important to get the most out of anything smaller than a 21" monitor
Anybody knows if this is also working on windows 10?
I'm currently trying to see if it works on win10, I will add another comment on my results
I tested it.
My conclusion: It can work. but note make sure you have a ton of pcie lanes/bandwidth to work with, because I tried this with a pcie 1x riser and it basically kneecapped my fps, im getting around 20 fps at 1600x1200.
I'm going to install win11 and test to see if my results differ
I tried it on win11 and win11 is a lot easier to get working because you can select the rendering gpu unlike in win10. I tried with win10 and it's not worth doing this in win 10, it's too much work because you have to have 1 monitor connected to the analog gpu and 1 to the rendering gpu, then you need to start the game on the rendering gpu's monitor, then move it to the analog display.
in Win11 you can select the rendering gpu and dont have to go through the long process of having 2 monitors connected to 2 gpus and moving things around.
I think I'll just stick with my hdmi to vga adaptor. Pretty sure I haven't ever its bottle neck yet. My crt has max vf of 85khz
once you get to the 90kHz range you will start to feel the pinch of the adapter, unless you have a decent adapter. I have a 165mhz adapter and the pinch is real, I'm running like 60% of the refresh that my monitor can handle at specific resolutions because of the pixel clock limitation
It would be interesting to see how more pcie bandwidth would effect latency.
"Inexpensive cards"
"RTX 3060"
lol