ISM band means that it you as a user do not need a certificate, not that any device with any in that band is free to use. Like is a jammer at max 100mW is legal or not?
@@FPVUniversity Does analog security video camera counts as a jammmer? It takes 1/3 of the whole 2.4 band and makes the WiFi unusable in that range. Legal stuff, bought it in the OBI or Castorama market, with all the stickers ;-)
CE is just a declaration satement that the manufacturer gives, that his product comply to EU rules. Normally he backs-up that statement by proove, independant test report. You are not allowed to sell items without CE in EU. For Express LRS if it has a 25mW and LBT, it could be declared compliant, (the seller and operator of the equoipmet are responsible) The expressLRS chipsets and hardware itself should be ok, is just software. But honestly in EU nobody fly the LBT, as it is dangerous and lead to more crashes.....
@@FPVUniversity Thanks anyway, Pawel. That's what I figured. Although, I was hoping that I've had missed something going through the polish regulations. I do have my Polish operator number and my drone pilot license already. I just have to find a way to print out some new labels and place them on my drones (I need at least 4 of them). It doesn't say anywhere that I can't have US and EU labels on the same drone, does it ?
yes but please also ask is Tracer, Crossfire, Flysky etc legal in EU ? As LBT is not used powerlevels too high...... Same for most VTX we use are they legal ?
Yes, Crossfire has CE, FrSky has CE, Ghost has CE, DJI (before you put it in FCC) has CE. This video is not about if you should use ELRS or not. It only answers a questions of following EU regulations
Currently ELRS can't be declared CE, as LBT mode is not implemented. So officially it may not be sold or imported to EU. However most quads do not comply anyway, most VTX can't be CE, radios with multi protocol modules can't be used? And than indeed using a CE product but unlocking modifying it or flying it in FCC mode, high powered modes etc it will also remove compliance so you'll be responsible (and actually breaking the law)..... Especially commercial vendors should take care....
Very interesting. So from a purely theoretical point of view if you were within the EU and purchased a CE-marked R9 transmitter, then proceeded to flash ExpressLRS onto this transmitter - Does the R9 transmitter then become a part within your EU-produced product which no-longer requires a CE mark?
Then, you become the manufacturer of the device and you take the full responsibility of the compliance with all the regulations. Also, this makes a good case for lawyers to decide what flashing firmware really means. And I bet different people will have different opinions. It's all a gray area
Easy answer, to dont burn your brain, any elrs use in EU, UK, US , everywhere, is illegal, flashed in frsky or bought . Elrs is illegal, fines feom.€5000 to millions ,.2 millions in hobbyking case
@@FPVUniversity that is not even close to the real thing. For many reasons, there is not discussion, elrs is illegal in any firmware in any hardware, because os not LTB and is not CE in consequence.. Soon to jump the LTB issue they will lock elrs to 10mw. But still that every manufacturer or importer will need pass CE. Until then, any.ELRS hardware is illegal and the user or importer (if you buy from china you are both) is liable. Clearly you are not idiot, you have first hand information, and basically what you are doing here is misleading, I dont know why, but easy to imagine. Just make you a favor and modify or delete this video
All I know is before elrs I got failsafes and since running elrs I have not had a single failsafe, it's safer, full stop. Just because the legal framework is out of date and not fit for purpose doesn't mean that elrs shouldn't be used. 2.4ghz is of course superb, there really is no need for 900mhz
But you can use ELRS in 868Mhz, exactly like Crossfire, Pawel. I guess if you use it in the right band and with not too much power you'd be safe. Either way... Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
868 band has a power limit to 25 mW in some sub range and has a limit of usage time, I do not remember exact values, but depending on the modulation you may transmit only a few percent of time on given frequency/channel. And there is a LBT (Listen Before Talk) thing, which requires to check every time if there is no active transmission on the frequency you want to use.
1 year later and I checked github and it would depend cause EU has different rules for below 1 Ghz and above and it looks like that the 968 Mhz could have been compliant with 10% duty cycle or so. But the LBT question still seems to be unsolved. At the end the jammers here have to pay fines for jamming and pay a fee for the hunt cause it had potentially damaged /interferred with other applications But the main issue will be the customs cause the customs look for that cause I had ordered a frsky version but missed to get the right lbt version. At arrival the customs checked the box and asked for the LBT label and specs but mine had not as I had ordered a different version. The unit was rejected and sent back to china by the customs and I had lost 2,5 hours driving, waiting, discussing and getting back. At least 5 weeks later I had gotten my money back from I guess Banggood where I had bought the unit.
Way to push us onto the train tracks👎This is as annoying as when the kid in the back of the class reminds the teacher that she forgot to assign homework for the weekend! 😬
Have to agree. Unfortunately we will start seeing more and more of this as most are becoming so damn compliant to everything. Like yes master I'll take another....
@@racerat nobody tanning critical services should he on 2.4ghz. Here in the UK everything critical is much lower down in the UHF band, licenced parts, are running digital encrypted systems and are not on the busy 2.4gjz part of it
So, jetz hab ich den Mist, Racerstar F7 auf INAV 3.01 geflashed und Nothinham... even it is dark in the forest cause betaflight is not able to connect , hehe. Yes , press the pin b4 connect , but there is no. DRIET , auch das gps MIT Compass is now useless. da soll ein bug sein in INAV 3.xx , ? flashback? Sory to put it into the wrong Vid, but maybe more have same issue. Mr. PAVEL SPYCHALSKI is there a BUG or NOT. Ich bedanke mich im voraus und verbleibe mit Holm und Carbonbruch (-:
Speaking about being legal 99% of all fpv pilots flys without ham license,,, so it doesn't really matter if you fly elrs crossfire ghost tracer your flying illegal,,, keep flying fly safe 😁
@@chrisfpv5706 Netherlands here.. this is nonsense!.. you don't need a HAM license for ISM bands anywhere in europe to fly FPV.. you need a A2,A1+A3 license and registration if it has a camera and/or is above 250g. 900Mhz-800Mhz is not ISM in europe and you need a HAM licence for those... but 5.8GHz and 2.4Ghz at low power is absolutely no problem anywhere in Europe. Otherwise anyone with a DJI drone, a phone or a wifi router would need a HAM license. Imagine. So ELRS on 2.4 is no problem at all, as long as you stay within the legal mW limits. If you want to go higher or use other bands... get a HAM license. Also, if you would want to do 30km flights, there are other rules that will give you problems, as you are outside of VLOS and your normal A2,A1+A3 licence will not be enough anyways.
In the EU a HAM license wouldn't help you anyway because flying FPV via HAM radio (on HAM radio frequencies) there is forbidden in general. But in the USA this might be a different thing.
Leg. or not i need to fly. East SK-no one will find me there are no planes here one time a week heli ambulance flies by. Drogon link i use to use it long time ago all my frsky is in fcc- scrue the politics here they dont respect a law. Here at east side i am only one on 30km that fly fpv. I have other stuf to worry about not if its legal or not some lrs crap. bought LRS with 2 receivers for planes didnt use it yet-soon.
But this is not the topic of this video. And even in eastern Slovakia (and yes, also in Ukraine) you will get in trouble if you interfere with the mobile telephone bands. So at least you should be aware of flashing your ELRS-Hardware according to "REGULATORY_DOMAIN_EU_868". This doesn't mean that you are perfectly legal (yes, also if you unchecked "UNLOCK_HIGHER_POWER") but it's way more unlikely that you will get in trouble.
Should you mention ExpressLRS 2.4ghz or 915 or 868 in the title?
That would include a lot more than just ExpressLRS.
From what I understand transmitters under 100mW are legal if we're talking about 2.4GHz. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
ISM band means that it you as a user do not need a certificate, not that any device with any in that band is free to use. Like is a jammer at max 100mW is legal or not?
@@FPVUniversity Does analog security video camera counts as a jammmer? It takes 1/3 of the whole 2.4 band and makes the WiFi unusable in that range. Legal stuff, bought it in the OBI or Castorama market, with all the stickers ;-)
Can they sell "kit"/DIY versions that aren't fully assembled?
to bypass the certification requirement?
CE is just a declaration satement that the manufacturer gives, that his product comply to EU rules. Normally he backs-up that statement by proove, independant test report. You are not allowed to sell items without CE in EU. For Express LRS if it has a 25mW and LBT, it could be declared compliant, (the seller and operator of the equoipmet are responsible) The expressLRS chipsets and hardware itself should be ok, is just software. But honestly in EU nobody fly the LBT, as it is dangerous and lead to more crashes.....
Well, I actually am flying with a LBT version of R9 module, so that's probably the reason why I'm experiencing crashes :) LOL
Can I fly my drones with US registration here in Poland ?
No. From what I know, US registartioun is not valid in EU
@@FPVUniversity Thanks anyway, Pawel. That's what I figured. Although, I was hoping that I've had missed something going through the polish regulations. I do have my Polish operator number and my drone pilot license already. I just have to find a way to print out some new labels and place them on my drones (I need at least 4 of them). It doesn't say anywhere that I can't have US and EU labels on the same drone, does it ?
yes but please also ask is Tracer, Crossfire, Flysky etc legal in EU ? As LBT is not used powerlevels too high...... Same for most VTX we use are they legal ?
Yes, Crossfire has CE, FrSky has CE, Ghost has CE, DJI (before you put it in FCC) has CE. This video is not about if you should use ELRS or not. It only answers a questions of following EU regulations
Currently ELRS can't be declared CE, as LBT mode is not implemented. So officially it may not be sold or imported to EU. However most quads do not comply anyway, most VTX can't be CE, radios with multi protocol modules can't be used? And than indeed using a CE product but unlocking modifying it or flying it in FCC mode, high powered modes etc it will also remove compliance so you'll be responsible (and actually breaking the law)..... Especially commercial vendors should take care....
Very interesting. So from a purely theoretical point of view if you were within the EU and purchased a CE-marked R9 transmitter, then proceeded to flash ExpressLRS onto this transmitter - Does the R9 transmitter then become a part within your EU-produced product which no-longer requires a CE mark?
Then, you become the manufacturer of the device and you take the full responsibility of the compliance with all the regulations. Also, this makes a good case for lawyers to decide what flashing firmware really means. And I bet different people will have different opinions. It's all a gray area
Easy answer, to dont burn your brain, any elrs use in EU, UK, US , everywhere, is illegal, flashed in frsky or bought . Elrs is illegal, fines feom.€5000 to millions ,.2 millions in hobbyking case
@@Flamenawer holy crap...
@@FPVUniversity that is not even close to the real thing. For many reasons, there is not discussion, elrs is illegal in any firmware in any hardware, because os not LTB and is not CE in consequence..
Soon to jump the LTB issue they will lock elrs to 10mw. But still that every manufacturer or importer will need pass CE.
Until then, any.ELRS hardware is illegal and the user or importer (if you buy from china you are both) is liable.
Clearly you are not idiot, you have first hand information, and basically what you are doing here is misleading, I dont know why, but easy to imagine.
Just make you a favor and modify or delete this video
@@rcarindom illegal 100%, just don't buy it.
All I know is before elrs I got failsafes and since running elrs I have not had a single failsafe, it's safer, full stop. Just because the legal framework is out of date and not fit for purpose doesn't mean that elrs shouldn't be used. 2.4ghz is of course superb, there really is no need for 900mhz
Wow,i had a doubt and you open a whole Alice in Wonderland door 🤯
It makes totally sense,thank you, you got a subscriber 🤝🏼
Awesome! Thank you!
Thank you!
But you can use ELRS in 868Mhz, exactly like Crossfire, Pawel.
I guess if you use it in the right band and with not too much power you'd be safe.
Either way... Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Not really. Frequency does not really matter
@@FPVUniversity Hmmm... I see...
868 band has a power limit to 25 mW in some sub range and has a limit of usage time, I do not remember exact values, but depending on the modulation you may transmit only a few percent of time on given frequency/channel. And there is a LBT (Listen Before Talk) thing, which requires to check every time if there is no active transmission on the frequency you want to use.
1 year later and I checked github and it would depend cause EU has different rules for below 1 Ghz and above and it looks like that the 968 Mhz could have been compliant with 10% duty cycle or so. But the LBT question still seems to be unsolved.
At the end the jammers here have to pay fines for jamming and pay a fee for the hunt cause it had potentially damaged /interferred with other applications
But the main issue will be the customs cause the customs look for that cause I had ordered a frsky version but missed to get the right lbt version. At arrival the customs checked the box and asked for the LBT label and specs but mine had not as I had ordered a different version.
The unit was rejected and sent back to china by the customs and I had lost 2,5 hours driving, waiting, discussing and getting back.
At least 5 weeks later I had gotten my money back from I guess Banggood where I had bought the unit.
None of the ELRS devices will be ever legal in EU or US. There is no one to guarantee CE in EU and it would nit pass FCC.
anny news about legal use?
nothing changed
@@FPVUniversity ty ...... :( more mW should also legal 🙄 lame EU 😆
Way to push us onto the train tracks👎This is as annoying as when the kid in the back of the class reminds the teacher that she forgot to assign homework for the weekend! 😬
Have to agree. Unfortunately we will start seeing more and more of this as most are becoming so damn compliant to everything. Like yes master I'll take another....
Why a 10 minute video for just one word? "No".
God Bless Mexico : D
What jobsworths are even worrying if its legal? not 98% of people in the hobby lol
The people that run critical services on the same or similar frequencies. The radio spectrum is a busy place.
@@racerat nobody tanning critical services should he on 2.4ghz. Here in the UK everything critical is much lower down in the UHF band, licenced parts, are running digital encrypted systems and are not on the busy 2.4gjz part of it
use ghost then i gues :P
So, jetz hab ich den Mist, Racerstar F7 auf INAV 3.01 geflashed und Nothinham... even it is dark in the forest cause betaflight is not able to connect , hehe. Yes , press the pin b4 connect , but there is no. DRIET , auch das gps MIT Compass is now useless. da soll ein bug sein in INAV 3.xx , ? flashback? Sory to put it into the wrong Vid, but maybe more have same issue.
Mr. PAVEL SPYCHALSKI is there a BUG or NOT. Ich bedanke mich im voraus und verbleibe mit Holm und Carbonbruch (-:
Meiste der versteht halb english halb deutsch? lol
@@ddpxl Ja dat meck dee, hann mit dem schon jequatscht. Aver platt kanne net,lol
Speaking about being legal 99% of all fpv pilots flys without ham license,,, so it doesn't really matter if you fly elrs crossfire ghost tracer your flying illegal,,, keep flying fly safe 😁
Not sure how it looks in the US, but in EU we do not need HAM license as long as we keep powers low, are in ISM band and so on.
@@FPVUniversity im in belgium and yes you do need a ham license,, its not because they dont check that you dont need to have one,,,
Then it's really country dependant. In poland I don't need one.
@@chrisfpv5706 Netherlands here.. this is nonsense!.. you don't need a HAM license for ISM bands anywhere in europe to fly FPV.. you need a A2,A1+A3 license and registration if it has a camera and/or is above 250g.
900Mhz-800Mhz is not ISM in europe and you need a HAM licence for those... but 5.8GHz and 2.4Ghz at low power is absolutely no problem anywhere in Europe. Otherwise anyone with a DJI drone, a phone or a wifi router would need a HAM license. Imagine.
So ELRS on 2.4 is no problem at all, as long as you stay within the legal mW limits. If you want to go higher or use other bands... get a HAM license.
Also, if you would want to do 30km flights, there are other rules that will give you problems, as you are outside of VLOS and your normal A2,A1+A3 licence will not be enough anyways.
In the EU a HAM license wouldn't help you anyway because flying FPV via HAM radio (on HAM radio frequencies) there is forbidden in general. But in the USA this might be a different thing.
Leg. or not i need to fly. East SK-no one will find me there are no planes here one time a week heli ambulance flies by. Drogon link i use to use it long time ago all my frsky is in fcc- scrue the politics here they dont respect a law. Here at east side i am only one on 30km that fly fpv. I have other stuf to worry about not if its legal or not some lrs crap. bought LRS with 2 receivers for planes didnt use it yet-soon.
But this is not the topic of this video. And even in eastern Slovakia (and yes, also in Ukraine) you will get in trouble if you interfere with the mobile telephone bands. So at least you should be aware of flashing your ELRS-Hardware according to "REGULATORY_DOMAIN_EU_868". This doesn't mean that you are perfectly legal (yes, also if you unchecked "UNLOCK_HIGHER_POWER") but it's way more unlikely that you will get in trouble.
imagine not having freedom