You get a de tuned standard output. I personally would buy a dually, remove the standard bed and put a hauler bed on it if you wanted a special application.
So the 10 speed transmission is actually not a Allison GM sent the Ford-GM co-designed unit to Allison to get a stamp of approval and use of the name for marketing. The diesel is detuned aswell for reliability but may be different on 3500 units. I’m almost positive most in the industry would choose the Ram for the low end torque and exhaust brake.
I wouldn’t worry about the power, having the low gearing out back will offset it enough to make you feel like you won, add to that the wide track and trucking has never been so easy 👍🏾
2021 Ram 4500 owner here - the wide track blew my mind at its effect on trailer maneuvering... even with a 43' toy hauler, I can get backed into just about any campsite in one shot (and this is my first trailer larger than a pontoon boat... its like driving with a cheat code). Go for it!
My company just ordered me a new work truck. It's a 3500HD 4x4 CC with a crane bed. I just got the VIN and build information today and found out it's a damn gas burner with the 10 speed! That damn thing is t going to have the power to get out of its own way with a crane bed and 4,000 pounds of tools loaded in it. Ugh.
On the GMC, there are several differences between standard 3500 pickups and the 3500 Cab Chassis models. Box frame on the pickup and C frame on the CC. Narrower frame and rear end (DRW) on the CC. Different cab to axle measurement. Exhaust angled out the side on the CC instead of the rear. No spare mount on the CC. DEF tank on the outside of the frame on the CC and inside the frame on the pickup. No hitch included on the CC. And a few other things. GMC does not publish the tow capacity for the CC because whoever buys it will put some sort of service bed on it and GM can't calculate the tow capacity without knowing the weight of the bed. It is up to the upfitter to calculate it. GM gives you the GVWR, GCWR, RGRWR, FGAWR and Payload. Upfitter adds their 1,000 lbs of flat bed and other crap (which reduces the Payload and Towing capacities) then weighs the axles and recalculates what it can now tow. But just like any other pickup, you can never exceed any one of the GWR's, regardless of what the "Max" capacity is. I see people all the time obviously towing overweight because they "read the label" and it drives me nuts!
thanks for pointing out the differences. You made lots of good points. Ill add that "towing capacity" is really just marketing/oem recommendation. If you do not exceed the FGAWR, RGAWR, GVWR, and tire load rating, you could tow 70,000# if you wanted.
@@brodeypecha9233 This is a myth perpetuated on the net. You cannot tow whatever you want as long as your truck is loaded correctly because many folks forget (possibly ignore) several very important ratings that have been around for most trucks since the early 2000's (not sure on the year). Here they are for my 2023 3500 DRW posted right on the B Pillar... GCWR (Combined truck and trailer) 40,000. Conventional Trailer Max 20,000 and 2,000 Max Tongue. Gooseneck/5th Wheel Max 31,100 and 4,665 Max Tongue. I am also limited by the connection to the truck. Most conventional and 5th wheel hitches are going to be limited to around 20,000. There are some 5th wheel hitch that is rated for 30,000 (puck system required) but there is NO aftermarket attachment rated that high so that 30K number is useless if you don't have a truck with pucks like mine. The highest 2-5/16 Gooseneck connection available for my truck is only good for 30,000 so there is that limitation too. Most trucks are going to have these limitations as well. Unless I get a custom hitch built and certified for my truck, the most I can tow is 30,000 even though the truck is rated for 31,100.
Good comparison video between the RAM 3500 6.7 cummins & GMC Sierra 3500 Cab & chassis with a Duramax Diesel the good thing about these Duramax engines is it has the Allison Automatic which they used those in many commercial applications
In the search for. New tow rig. I want to upgrade from a suv to a truck. Been looking at the Silverado 2500. My trailer is 7800lbs. Tow about 1 weekend every other month so it would be mostly a daily driver to and from work about 15 miles round trip. Like the 2500 diesel but then Chevy said 2024 2500 gas will be 6.6l with a 10 speed. Not sure which would be better long term
Towing 7,800 lbs 6 times a year? Do yourself a favor and go with a 2024 2500 HD Gasser. DO NOT get a Diesel unless you plan to use it for what it is intended for.
The GM independent front end is far superior to the solid axles. It rides better, lasts longer, and is far cheaper to rebuild when the time comes. With the 10 speed a 3.42 works just fine, you get your gear reduction in the transmission instead of the rear end.
From personal experience if you get a fully boxed frame a wax coating is better then a an E-coated frame. For a C-channel frame E-coat is definitely better
@@JB_WhoWork when a fully boxed frame goes through the E-coat process it has to go through different washing/acid bath stages before finally getting E-coated so usually the cross members still have water inside of them and they don’t get E-coated so basically they start rusting from the inside out. Wax guarantees full coverage. I used to work at the factory that makes the frame for the F-150. Wax coating is good too on C channel frames but like you said if you rub on it, it gets scrapped off right away so when these vehicles are getting outfitted with whatever they are getting put on them most of the time the people working on them don’t give a shit it’s not theirs and they hate their jobs so once that wax comes off it’s most likely to start rusting in the spot. now where people tend to mess up which usually people that like in cold states is they do an oil coating to preserve the frame but that hot oil causes the wax to come off.
I would argue that the Ram rear suspension is better; more overload leafs that GM. The main stack is pretty robust on both and it is interesting that both of the C&S trucks have a much stouter suspension than the pick-up versions even though they have the same 14,000lb GVWR's.
The spring setup on the regular pickup is different but not any less robust. There are less main springs (5) on my '23 3500 DWR but they are thicker and wider than the CC. The bottom spring is over 1" thick and almost full length compared to that short (useless) bottom spring on the CC. I have 3 overload springs compared to 1 on the CC. It is all about ride comfort unloaded and capacity when loaded. My '23 rides leaps and bound better than my previous '06.
Ram ram ram come on man! White wall Nexen tires with those nice black wheels? At least turn them around so we can’t see the name LOL! But, nice review bro! They both have pluses and minuses in my opinion.🇺🇸💪
Ask someone who does up-fitting meaning truck bodies, snow plows, emergency lighting etc. What trucks are the best to work. What Companies think about both the up-fitter and end user. This is the line of work we are in. I can tell you first hand it seems RAM and Ford are in a battle to build the best and most up-fitter friendly trucks & cab chassis in the industry. GM is POLAR Opposite. Every time we are doing an install on GM we all shake our heads in the shop in disbelief of how miserable GM makes the trucks to work on. As far as the wax coating on the GM trucks goes, it may hold up ok in the non-salt belt part of the Country but it doesn’t last 2 years with our commercial guys or even guys that regularly run in the snow/salt in New England. We get brand new cab chassis 3500 GMs in to install a dump body. GM zip ties the fuel fills/lines up to the top of the frame rails for transit. A truck with 8 miles on it will already be rusted from where the wax coating has been rubbed off from the fuel fills. Not to mention the stuff is terrible to work with on or around. RAM trucks will come in 5 years old with 100K with nearly no rust at all on the frame. In our opinion at our shop the GM trucks just aren’t made like the RAMs and the Fords not fir real commercial work anyway. On top of the frame corrosion problems with GM the bodies literally are rusted out way, way faster than the RAMs and obviously Fords don’t have that issue anymore. Keep in mind this is all coming from a guy that started out as an absolute DieHard GM truck guy. It seems to me GM since the bankruptcy has totally cheesed out their trucks and cheapened them up. Especially the body panels and interiors. RAM since their Bankruptcy at the same time has done the complete and total opposite. As far as Ford I think they just keep getting better. GM finally has a nice interior again that is competitive. Hopefully they step up their game on the rest of the truck. These are obviously my opinions and those of the guys that work along side me. That being said we work on and see A LOT of these trucks.
Nice review. Both of those trucks will be true working trucks. By that I mean owned by a company or even a private owner/operator, but used every day for a business. Anyways for the frame wax on the GMs, I don’t hate it but I also don’t love it. It actually holds up pretty good but overtime it looks bad. But you can scrape it years later and you got clean metal underneath so it works. I would prefer a true painted frame myself but it is what it is I guess. But definitely don’t pressure wash it! You need to go find some of the medium duty Chevy Silverados and review them. They are a true medium duty truck. The 4500/5500/6500 series. They are actually built by International but use GM cabs (previous generation so 2015-2019) and are Duramax only with the 6 speed Allison. They have straight frame rails are made specifically to be upfitted with aftermarket beds. Oh and last thing you do have the towing sticker on the GMC so no need to look online for towing capacities lol.
Good stuff, the wax frame is definitely lower maintenance but you’re right, they look bad in about 5 years or less depending on how you use your pickup. This truck in factory incomplete so it didn’t have tow numbers on it 👍🏾👍🏾
@@JB_WhoWork I see. I never thought about that but good pout. But the GCWR will still be the same for any 3500 crew cab with that wheelbase. Then just have to weigh the truck and see I guess. In that case that makes the Rams advertised tow ratings worthless since they would have no way of knowing the upfitted trucks weight.
Where have you been pal ram has been having recalls on their transmissions and people are having their frames snap on them carrying a travel trailer! I never seen in my life a large heavy-duty truck frame snap like the new Rams are! Go with a GMC or Chevy!
Thanks for this awesome comparison . . . since I just happen to be waiting for delivery of a Ram 3500 cab n chassis, I really enjoyed what you said.
You get a de tuned standard output. I personally would buy a dually, remove the standard bed and put a hauler bed on it if you wanted a special application.
Not a bad idea 👍🏾
Still same payload
So the 10 speed transmission is actually not a Allison GM sent the Ford-GM co-designed unit to Allison to get a stamp of approval and use of the name for marketing. The diesel is detuned aswell for reliability but may be different on 3500 units. I’m almost positive most in the industry would choose the Ram for the low end torque and exhaust brake.
Struggling to decide between 3500 and 4500. I want full power but also the wide track front end for turning radius.
I wouldn’t worry about the power, having the low gearing out back will offset it enough to make you feel like you won, add to that the wide track and trucking has never been so easy 👍🏾
2021 Ram 4500 owner here - the wide track blew my mind at its effect on trailer maneuvering... even with a 43' toy hauler, I can get backed into just about any campsite in one shot (and this is my first trailer larger than a pontoon boat... its like driving with a cheat code). Go for it!
How much to powder coat rims on a setup like this?
My company just ordered me a new work truck. It's a 3500HD 4x4 CC with a crane bed. I just got the VIN and build information today and found out it's a damn gas burner with the 10 speed! That damn thing is t going to have the power to get out of its own way with a crane bed and 4,000 pounds of tools loaded in it. Ugh.
On the GMC, there are several differences between standard 3500 pickups and the 3500 Cab Chassis models. Box frame on the pickup and C frame on the CC. Narrower frame and rear end (DRW) on the CC. Different cab to axle measurement. Exhaust angled out the side on the CC instead of the rear. No spare mount on the CC. DEF tank on the outside of the frame on the CC and inside the frame on the pickup. No hitch included on the CC. And a few other things.
GMC does not publish the tow capacity for the CC because whoever buys it will put some sort of service bed on it and GM can't calculate the tow capacity without knowing the weight of the bed. It is up to the upfitter to calculate it. GM gives you the GVWR, GCWR, RGRWR, FGAWR and Payload. Upfitter adds their 1,000 lbs of flat bed and other crap (which reduces the Payload and Towing capacities) then weighs the axles and recalculates what it can now tow. But just like any other pickup, you can never exceed any one of the GWR's, regardless of what the "Max" capacity is. I see people all the time obviously towing overweight because they "read the label" and it drives me nuts!
thanks for pointing out the differences. You made lots of good points. Ill add that "towing capacity" is really just marketing/oem recommendation. If you do not exceed the FGAWR, RGAWR, GVWR, and tire load rating, you could tow 70,000# if you wanted.
@@brodeypecha9233 This is a myth perpetuated on the net. You cannot tow whatever you want as long as your truck is loaded correctly because many folks forget (possibly ignore) several very important ratings that have been around for most trucks since the early 2000's (not sure on the year). Here they are for my 2023 3500 DRW posted right on the B Pillar...
GCWR (Combined truck and trailer) 40,000.
Conventional Trailer Max 20,000 and 2,000 Max Tongue.
Gooseneck/5th Wheel Max 31,100 and 4,665 Max Tongue.
I am also limited by the connection to the truck. Most conventional and 5th wheel hitches are going to be limited to around 20,000. There are some 5th wheel hitch that is rated for 30,000 (puck system required) but there is NO aftermarket attachment rated that high so that 30K number is useless if you don't have a truck with pucks like mine. The highest 2-5/16 Gooseneck connection available for my truck is only good for 30,000 so there is that limitation too. Most trucks are going to have these limitations as well. Unless I get a custom hitch built and certified for my truck, the most I can tow is 30,000 even though the truck is rated for 31,100.
I love you're end comments ram is the only way to go for extreme heavy towing gmc is basically a grocery getter
I would choose ram because of the inline6 cummins.
Yup, it’s a tough one to beat 👍🏾
The GM cab and chassis is a l5d, not an L5P, it's detuned, less horsepower, less torque made to last longer. It's all about payload not towing.
I thought they were too but GM does not detune the 1ton 3500’s 👍🏾
This only applies to the Medium Duty Chevy/International trucks
The CC 3500 is definitely the full power L5P. I believe that GM is the only one that does this. The lower powered L5D is in the 4500 and larger rigs.
Ford detunes the power stroke in medium duties as well. My fathers eco boost transit for example, is a detuned 3.5 eco boost for longevity.
Chassis cabs are definitely meant to tow. It shows that you really don't need as much power as they claim on these things
Good comparison video between the RAM 3500 6.7 cummins & GMC Sierra 3500 Cab & chassis with a Duramax Diesel the good thing about these Duramax engines is it has the Allison Automatic which they used those in many commercial applications
Thanks, the Duramax definitely has great performance but I would like to see them allow for lower gearing on the cab/chassis 👍🏾
In the search for. New tow rig. I want to upgrade from a suv to a truck. Been looking at the Silverado 2500. My trailer is 7800lbs. Tow about 1 weekend every other month so it would be mostly a daily driver to and from work about 15 miles round trip. Like the 2500 diesel but then Chevy said 2024 2500 gas will be 6.6l with a 10 speed. Not sure which would be better long term
I would go 2024 GM gas if it were me, all that 6.6L needs is more gears and you’re in business 👍🏾
Towing 7,800 lbs 6 times a year? Do yourself a favor and go with a 2024 2500 HD Gasser. DO NOT get a Diesel unless you plan to use it for what it is intended for.
You won’t regret getting the diesel. More expensive, yes but better resale and so much more power.
Great video!
Thanks bro 👍🏾
Engine longevity transmission and durability. Ram the best.hotshot guys know.and adding the aftermarket bed on gmc is a pain in theA$$
The GM independent front end is far superior to the solid axles. It rides better, lasts longer, and is far cheaper to rebuild when the time comes. With the 10 speed a 3.42 works just fine, you get your gear reduction in the transmission instead of the rear end.
From personal experience if you get a fully boxed frame a wax coating is better then a an E-coated frame. For a C-channel frame E-coat is definitely better
Interesting 🤔
@@JB_WhoWork when a fully boxed frame goes through the E-coat process it has to go through different washing/acid bath stages before finally getting E-coated so usually the cross members still have water inside of them and they don’t get E-coated so basically they start rusting from the inside out. Wax guarantees full coverage. I used to work at the factory that makes the frame for the F-150. Wax coating is good too on C channel frames but like you said if you rub on it, it gets scrapped off right away so when these vehicles are getting outfitted with whatever they are getting put on them most of the time the people working on them don’t give a shit it’s not theirs and they hate their jobs so once that wax comes off it’s most likely to start rusting in the spot. now where people tend to mess up which usually people that like in cold states is they do an oil coating to preserve the frame but that hot oil causes the wax to come off.
I would argue that the Ram rear suspension is better; more overload leafs that GM. The main stack is pretty robust on both and it is interesting that both of the C&S trucks have a much stouter suspension than the pick-up versions even though they have the same 14,000lb GVWR's.
The spring setup on the regular pickup is different but not any less robust. There are less main springs (5) on my '23 3500 DWR but they are thicker and wider than the CC. The bottom spring is over 1" thick and almost full length compared to that short (useless) bottom spring on the CC. I have 3 overload springs compared to 1 on the CC. It is all about ride comfort unloaded and capacity when loaded. My '23 rides leaps and bound better than my previous '06.
Ram chassis is just like a semi chassis. Ram better commercial truck better for work
Yea the GM seems to be better suited for hauling 👍🏾
Ram ram ram come on man! White wall Nexen tires with those nice black wheels? At least turn them around so we can’t see the name LOL! But, nice review bro! They both have pluses and minuses in my opinion.🇺🇸💪
Bro you’re not lying lol, all it needs is the Michelin tires to make it complete! Thanks bro 💪🏾🇺🇸
Ask someone who does up-fitting meaning truck bodies, snow plows, emergency lighting etc. What trucks are the best to work. What Companies think about both the up-fitter and end user. This is the line of work we are in. I can tell you first hand it seems RAM and Ford are in a battle to build the best and most up-fitter friendly trucks & cab chassis in the industry. GM is POLAR Opposite. Every time we are doing an install on GM we all shake our heads in the shop in disbelief of how miserable GM makes the trucks to work on. As far as the wax coating on the GM trucks goes, it may hold up ok in the non-salt belt part of the Country but it doesn’t last 2 years with our commercial guys or even guys that regularly run in the snow/salt in New England. We get brand new cab chassis 3500 GMs in to install a dump body. GM zip ties the fuel fills/lines up to the top of the frame rails for transit. A truck with 8 miles on it will already be rusted from where the wax coating has been rubbed off from the fuel fills. Not to mention the stuff is terrible to work with on or around. RAM trucks will come in 5 years old with 100K with nearly no rust at all on the frame. In our opinion at our shop the GM trucks just aren’t made like the RAMs and the Fords not fir real commercial work anyway. On top of the frame corrosion problems with GM the bodies literally are rusted out way, way faster than the RAMs and obviously Fords don’t have that issue anymore.
Keep in mind this is all coming from a guy that started out as an absolute DieHard GM truck guy. It seems to me GM since the bankruptcy has totally cheesed out their trucks and cheapened them up. Especially the body panels and interiors. RAM since their Bankruptcy at the same time has done the complete and total opposite. As far as Ford I think they just keep getting better. GM finally has a nice interior again that is competitive. Hopefully they step up their game on the rest of the truck.
These are obviously my opinions and those of the guys that work along side me. That being said we work on and see A LOT of these trucks.
They probably detune the engine's for mog. Try calling dealers or manufacturer and asking them
Nah it's for durability
Nice review. Both of those trucks will be true working trucks. By that I mean owned by a company or even a private owner/operator, but used every day for a business.
Anyways for the frame wax on the GMs, I don’t hate it but I also don’t love it. It actually holds up pretty good but overtime it looks bad. But you can scrape it years later and you got clean metal underneath so it works. I would prefer a true painted frame myself but it is what it is I guess. But definitely don’t pressure wash it!
You need to go find some of the medium duty Chevy Silverados and review them. They are a true medium duty truck. The 4500/5500/6500 series. They are actually built by International but use GM cabs (previous generation so 2015-2019) and are Duramax only with the 6 speed Allison. They have straight frame rails are made specifically to be upfitted with aftermarket beds.
Oh and last thing you do have the towing sticker on the GMC so no need to look online for towing capacities lol.
Good stuff, the wax frame is definitely lower maintenance but you’re right, they look bad in about 5 years or less depending on how you use your pickup.
This truck in factory incomplete so it didn’t have tow numbers on it 👍🏾👍🏾
@@JB_WhoWork I see. I never thought about that but good pout. But the GCWR will still be the same for any 3500 crew cab with that wheelbase. Then just have to weigh the truck and see I guess.
In that case that makes the Rams advertised tow ratings worthless since they would have no way of knowing the upfitted trucks weight.
@@matthewanderson9912 nobody's paying attention to those
Where have you been pal ram has been having recalls on their transmissions and people are having their frames snap on them carrying a travel trailer! I never seen in my life a large heavy-duty truck frame snap like the new Rams are! Go with a GMC or Chevy!
For 10 rams and Ford you see towing and in construcción is 1 gmc or chevy my Last l5p Was the worst mistake ever did nothing pulls like a cummins
This is true with towing but GM trucks tow well in my opinion 👍🏾
Nexen tires 🤣. Yes they’re junky cheap tires!
Lol 💯
Gm
Ford f600 is the best. There you don't have to watch this now.
Dodge is junk
They detune 45/5500 series not 3500🥴 you don’t need 4,44 and higher gear ratio with the 10 speed transmission 🥴🥴🥴