My opinion. First of, neither deeds or faith bring salvation. Only Jesus. Scripture is rather clear that it is God, who would judge our souls based on intentions, so if we actually are or try to be good people, rather then what we did or if we believe. Secondary. Scripture was written primarily for goat farmers and old Jewish temple. There is merit in argument that role of Church is interpretations of specific events in the bible basing on educated analyze, rather then arbitrarily interpretations of something written for completely different culture. Even if it is true that Church at the time did go too far due to corruption and infighting between different Popes (detail lot of people forget). Counter-Reformation actually recognized some justified complains and solve problem of multiple Popes. About Kelvinist predestination. It is based on misinterpretation. Though it is true that God know everything, God can everything and as he exist bound time, creation was in a sense concluded. But we still are ones who make the decisions. Whole argument seams to be rather attempt of answering on faith vs deeds debate and making things worst. In the end it is redundant debate, because it doesn't really matter.
You could also put Manichaeism as a gnostic religion, next to Mandaeism. It was once a major religion, especially in North Africa and even compared to christianity there. With the rise of Islam it was persecuted but until today there are Manichaean communities, especially in Fujian, China.
@@neuralwarp that's a Catholic order level split (Dominicans lead the inquisition, Jesuits teach, Franciscans take care of the poor) not a church level split (they don't even share Presbytes)
@@makearunat All founding prophets are heretics-they broke away from one religion to start another. Abraham, Buddha, L. Ron Hubbard, Jesus, Martin Luther, Mohammed, Guru Nanak, Joseph Smith, Zarathustra etc.
18:25 Note: Switzerland had two centers of reformation. One was in Geneva, led by Calvin; the other was in Zurich, led by Zwingli. They had some theological differences, but after a few decades they were able to come together in the Consensus Tigurinus.
Zwingli actually was first, although his reform movement often seems to get overlooked by the better-known Geneva movement. Zwingli's reform church was established not very long after Lutheranism -- in the 1520s. Unfortunately, by the time of the Consensus Tigurinus, Zwingli himself was dead, having horribly died in battle during internecine wars in Switzerland.
I would also add the Evangelical Lutheran church of Finland onto the chart. It separated from the church of Sweden in 1809 and is still main religious group in Finland.
Agree. At 3,7m members and state church position it is comparable to the other Nordic churches now included. Note that separation was not dogmatic, but due to Finland changing hands from Sweden to Russia
He's missing a whole lot with this chart, really. There are the several state churches, the Ukrainian and Russian Lutherans, the Lutherans of Kenya, South Africa, and New Guinea, not to mention the fact that there are a ton of smaller Lutheran denominations in the United States and Canada that he has implied don't even exist. Probably, a better way of looking at Lutheranism would be through the lens of the Lutheran World Federation, the International Lutheran Council, and the Confessing Evangelical Lutheran Council, and then maybe an "other Lutheran" category for the really small ones.
This series is what I’ve been waiting for. As a Catholic the different branches of Christianity have always fascinated me. So excited for the next episode
Don't forget the Scottish Episcopal Church! The Anglican mass in Scotland, often called "The English Church" but structurally separate from the Churches of England and Scotland. Founded by James VI & I and Scotland's third largest church.
Adding to this - the Scottish Episcopal Church passed apostolic succession by consecrating Samuel Seabury in 1784 as the Episcopal Church's (USA) first bishop. Without them, the Episcopal Church in the US would not exist!
@@tomasroma2333 CofE tend to use Communion/Eucharist/Mass somewhat interchangeable, almost depending on the expected numbers of persons attended. There will be services where there is no Eucharist segment of it , which tend to be aimed at younger families. I assume the Anglicans in Scotland follow a similar pattern
@@tomasroma2333 I have only been to one Church of Ireland service, I think there was a lack of time for communion as the incumbent covered two parishes, so one was a 9am then a drive to the next church for a 1030am. no organist so music was from LP records.
The importance of the printing press cannot be overstated when discussing History. The protestant reformation would not have been possible without the mass distribution of ideas.
Great work Matt. It would be interesting to see some kind of “current size” indication for major divisions. Maybe just a pie chart on the side as a companion. I know there is enough relevant info on this topic to fill textbooks so I applaud your willingness to step into the fray and try and provide an overview for a wide audience - as well as partner with another channel :)
I’ve been Christian all my life (raised Pentecostal in the Assemblies of God) and I was never taught most of this. So thankful for the knowledge and perspective!
My mother is Anglican and moved to Spain in 2020 and she had to search high and low to find an English speaking Anglican church in a predominantly Catholic country. She did eventually find one and she attends regularly but it was a hard search.
There are some Lutheran based ones thanks to the Germans using Spain as a holiday destination. Some will hold meetings in hotel areas for people on long term holiday / time shares rather than in a church building
@@lucypreece7581 Spain of course had its own problems with the Civil War (my Uncle was one of a few english who went to fight agains Franco ), and being the generally closed dictatorship until the 1980s. I went on holiday to a less well known coastal part of spain and they seemed to have an even "beyond catholic" set of holy day celebrations of local saints and establishments.
Under Presbyterianism I was expecting to see the Free Church of Scotland, which split from the Church of Scotland in 1843. Much of it merged back in with the United Presbyterian Church but there are still a bunch of separate Free Churches as a specific denomination up here. Also, yay for the first time I get to make some contribution in the comments about this series.
I’m aware that as a Scot I’m biased. But yes I think this is an oversight especially considering the Scottish influence on Presbyterianism. The great Disruption really is noteworthy. I think including the PCI would be worth mentioning too.
Quite topical at the moment as well with the SNP Leadership election (which is the proxy election for First Minister). One of the candidates is a member of the Free Church and there is a debate whether some of their beliefs are compatible with being a modern day political leader.
@@UsefulCharts Will you be discussing the Restorationist churches, such as The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Christian Churches/Churches of Christ (DoC) and the Churches of Christ? *phew!* Aren't they originally Congregationalist also?
@@UsefulCharts Hello as Czech I have some notes: Name "Jan Hus": a) Jan is czech variant of name John (eng) / Hans/Johann (ger), and it is pronouced more like [yaan], b) the name generally means "John from Husinec" (Hussinetz in german), it is small town in western Bohemia, c) before Jan Hus there was even earlier proto-reformater/church critic John Wycliff, d) date of Hus execution is national holiday here, e) and after WWI in 1920 there was (after creation of Czechoslovakia) created reformed "sort of national" Czechoslovak Hussite church, spliting from Catholic church f) also after WWI in 1918 czech lutheran and reformed joined in Evangelical church of Czech Brethen (referencing also to Moravian Brethen and Jan Hus), today it is 2nd largest church here (after catholics) *) Charles University in Prague has three theological faculties: Roman-catholic, protestant/evangelical and hussite.
You should have talked about the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter in your section about Anglicanism. That is a group of former Anglican priests (and parishes) that have converted to Catholicism and got to keep their Mass and other Anglican traditions but be in communion with Rome, a lot like how the Eastern Catholics are. The difference between what is commonly referred to as the Anglican Ordinariate and the Eastern Catholics is that the Anglican Ordinariate still falls under the Roman Rite of the Latin Church.
That's about right, but the main difference between eastern catholics and converted anglicans is the lack of apostolic succession in England. That's why they had to form another denomination, rather than to rejoin the Catholic Church as a whole.
I think there were four main bands and ideas, 1) Jesus was man, not God, 2) Jesus was God, not Man, 3) there was additional "knowledge" mostly of heavens, principalities, powers (in a hierarchy of angels and enlightenments. 4) Differences on interpretation of the the existance/role of evil - Lucifer /Satan The Devil. This excludes other differences on women / included.excluded scriptures and effectively the Paul (Rome) and Peter (Jerusalem) Churches
Yes, I think this is a great suggestion. Excellent examples would be semi-Arianism, Eutychianism, and also a breakdown of the various traditions of Gnostic Christianity. Also, Acacianism.
@@highpath4776 There were many more than 4 major bands. There were at least 8 major bands. Even in Gnosticism alone, there are easily at least 6 mutually exclusive, completely different traditions that influenced early Christianity.
here are a few: 1. Legalists/Ebonites - need to keep Jewish tradition (esp circumcision) mixed with Christian belief in Jesus to earn salvation. They are similar to Jewish Ebionites of same name, it’s confusing. 2. Various Gnosticism (particularly Valentinianism) - reliance on hidden, revealed knowledge from an unknowable God, a distinct divinity from the Demiurge who created and oversees the material world; or in other variations humans are divine who are trapped in a wicked world made by Old Testament God, one of Dual Gods. 3. Marcionism - the God of Jesus was a different God from the God of t he Old Testament. Seen today again in some denominations. 4. Montanism - relied on NEW prophetic revelations from the Holy Spirit and additions to the New Testament. Similar to Jewish Merkava heterodoxy. I think modern Mormons fall into this group.... 5. Adoptionism - Jesus was not born the Son of God, but was adopted at his baptism, resurrection or ascension. Similar to later Indian heresy of Avatarism (Jesus was an avatar of higher God). 6. Docetism - Jesus was pure spirit and his physical form an illusion. 7. Antinomianism - once you become a Christian you can do what ever you want, you are forgiven. No need to show God love or gratitude nor man. 8. Collyridian - Mostly female Christians who believed Mary the mother of Jesus was a god.(Only in one source, maybe legendary.) 9. various Syncretism/combination of Christianity with other pagan religions. ----There are many, many other heresies, too many to list. And those are just the known, many died off unknown, too minor to be noted. = Then there was Arianism, which became a separate branch of Christianity for a while; the Ostrogoths in Italy, the Visigoths in Spain and the Vandals of north Africa were Arian. They believed Jesus was a junior god under a head god. = Related is a religion influenced by Christianity and by Zoroastrianism: Manichean Gnosticism is founded by prophet Mani in Mesopotamia. Manicheanism is a secretive dualistic religion by postulating two opposite powers - a good, spiritual world of light (heaven) of a weak God(Jesus), and an evil material (earthly) world of darkness of Satan, elements of the light are trapped in darkness; the world was created to purify the light elements leaving behind the dark world.
For your full chart, the Lutheran church in Australia came from the group leaving Germany to avoid the United church. They then schismed and since merged back together. This is why in a number of Australian towns there are two Lutheran church buildings.
The Missouri Synod in America had the same origin. Interestingly enough, the Wisconsin Synod (which isn't included in the chart) was organized by German Lutherans who were in favor of, or at least not bothered by the United church in Germany.
I think it could be mentioned that Finland and Iceland have their own Lutheran churches, since Finland was a part of Sweden during the reformation and Iceland was a part of Denmark, but still not every single church has to be on this chart
Hi, Matt. I don't know how detailed and how far into completeness you are going but I'd like to point out that the Danish Lutheran Church has a daughter church, that being the Faroese Lutheran Church which separated from the Danish church in 2007. But then there's also the churches of Finland, Iceland, and Estonia. Another interesting branch of Anglicanism is the Plymouth Brethren which became really popular in the Faroe Islands as about 12% of the population belongs to that branch.
As a german lutheran I want to add something about the major importance Bonhoeffer gained and holds till today. My religious education consisted in large parts of looking at topics from several points of view generally in the order of philosophers (2-3 different ones), bible, Luther, Bonhoeffer (time percentages being 50% „secular“ philosophy, 18% bible 17% Luther, 15%Bonhoeffer though he increased when the topic was about church vs. state)
I would consider Thomas Cramner, the archbishop of Canterbury under Henry the VIII and Edward VI to be an unofficial founder of the Church of England. Even though the King founded the church confiscated all the property, and began the appointment of bishops. It was Cramner who began introducing changes to the Catholic mass such as communion in the hand or mass in vernacular,or writing the book of Common Prayer.
The Hussites differed slightly in doctrine, there were radical Taborites, moderate Hussites from Prague, Orphans and the eccentric Adamites. The differences resulted rather from the isolation between the armies under different commanders, but I would divide it on the chart. I would also add the God Worshipping Society, unless that is too syncretic.
I just love your work so much! Thank you. There is one nuance with the Anglican lineage. Anglicans are very proud of their link with the ancient Celtic church, which existed before Rome took over leadership and standardized the Roman rite over Sarum rite. This may be something that needs a minor mention on the chart.
A bit surprised the Scottish Episcopal Church wasn't mentioned here, as that church is directly responsible for the passage of apostolic succession to the Episcopal Church (USA) with the consecration of Samuel Seabury in 1784. Without this, there would be no Episcopal Church, as the Church of England refused to consecrate him. Yes, the EC was originally C of E before the Revolutionary War, but the Scottish Episcopal Church is what allowed them to continue being Anglican. It was at least as important to the creation of the Episcopal Church as the C of E was.
Hi, it's a gerat series and a great video again. As a minister in a German church which is part of the EKD I want to make a comment on the part about the EKD. From the self-understanding the EKD is rather a federation of churches than a church in itself. In the EKD regional churches (the national churches of the former states in the Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire) come together. Some of these churches are Lutheran, somer are Reformed and some are United Churches. So the EKD is rather an Umbrella for the regional churches than a single national church like the Swedish church. I'm not sure if it's possible to make this more clear at the chart, but maybe you find a way. Anyway saying the Evangelical Church of the Union (EKU) joined the EKD in 1984 is rather missunderstanding, because the member churches of the EKU were members of the EKD before, as well as the EKU as a whole. The EKU can be considered a sub-federation in the EKD which considered itself to be a church because all of their members were part of Prussia which was disolved as a state at the end of WW2. In 2004 this sub-federation joined together with another subfederation representing United Churches, the Arnoldshain conference to become the UEK (Union of Evangelical churches), which is one of the three subfederations under the roof of the EKD today (the other ones being the VELKD "United Evangelical Lutheran church in Germany" and the Reformed Federation "Reformierter Bund"). Furthermore there were United churches in other German states than Prussia as well - even before 1817. As far as I know the root for the EKD would be the DEK (German Evangelical Church) which was founded in 1933 as a federation of the different state churches and then very soon split into the "German Christians" (the Nazi allied church) and the "Confessing Church". Before 1933 there was nothing like a "German church" and even today it is rather a federation of chruches. I'm sure not all of this information can be put into the chart, but maybe it is helpfull! Thank you for your work - I'm really looking forward to the finished chart.
Really? That's what you think this chart needs? More information on the evil inherently anti-semitic German church, which might as well call itself "the Nazi church"? I am surprised it even still exists. What an embarrassment to Christianity. Colour me ignorant, I am German Lutheran myself, but after watching this video I feel like this our church should just abolish itself. Why do we even still exist? If we were true to our own humble claims- then we should just dissolve and be ashamed of ourselves for eternity.
The question is though: is there enough theological differences between the state churches to merit you be called seperate churches in fact? Fact is: Through the Leuenberg Concordia the Lutheran, Unionist and Reformed state churches officially declared church unity, i.e. being one clear church body. At least from our confessional Lutheran position in the SELK (Independent Evangelical-Lutheran Church (in Germany)). We say the if you allow the pastor to preach in your church and allow the members to commune in your church, you are practically one church, even if you have seperate institutions, because these are the visible signs of the church according to the Augsburg Confession (CA VII). So as much as you say they are seperate: If you allow a reformed to preach in your church and allow reformed to partake in communion, what makes your theological differences so distinct as to merit one to talk of different churches?
I'm glad you mentioned the proto-Protestant groups, which are often ignored. Jan Hus was a particularly important figure (and John Wycliffe before him) who wanted a lot of the same reforms that Luther wanted. Modern Unitarians use the symbol of a chalice as a reference to Jan Hus practicing open communion with his congregants. Speaking of that I hope you cover some of the radical protestants (Anabaptists and Socinians) next time.
Hello, Matt! I'm a lutheran from Brazil and I'd love to see "our" branches at the chart aswell. The church that I attend is IELB (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil) which trace their lineage back to the Missouri Sinod. But there's a second lutheran church here in Brazil called IECLB (Evangelical Confessional Lutheran Church of Brazil) which came from Germany at the beginning of the XX century. Despite their name, they are more liberal than IELB.
The Moravians went to Northern Labrador and some of the oldest religious buildings in North America are in those cold northern Labrador communities. My aunt was Moravian Pentecost from Labrador they were very isolated and very religious people for 3 centuries
You probably should add the evangelical lutheran churches of Finland and Iceland, since their separations from respective mother church is also quite important. The split between the reformed church in the Netherlands and those in South Africa might also be interesting to show.
As someone who has wanted to learn this stuff for so long, this video did not dissapoint! It's so cool that you updated it and took feedback into account, good for you! Can't wait for more episodes of this!
With regards to your point about "evangelical" in the context of Lutheranism just meaning protestant: these are actually two different words in German, so thank you for clearing that up, because I was quite puzzled😅 Evangelisch in German is more or less synonymous with protestant (and usually used for Lutheran protestants, because that is the largest protestant denomination here), whereas evangelikal is ... well, I´m not sure if I get the distinctions right, but it is what I would use for the more conservative protestant denominations in the US (derived from pietism, puritanism that sort of thing. Charismatic (?) movements, too).
German -isch has an English cognate: -ish - “evangelish”? By contrast, I recall from somewhere that American-style evangelicalism is called “evangelikal”.
A line from the Danish State church to the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod implies the Synod is of Danish origin. In fact, it is primarily of German origin and was known as the German Evangelical Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod up to 1948. Some of the American founders of the Synod left Prussia as a result of the forced merger with Calvinists by the King of Prussia. The video is really good considering all the complexities of the evolution of post Reformation Churches.
I wish he would have included the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod because it was founded by missionaries from Germany who were in favor of the Unity Lutheran/Reformed church that many of the other German Lutheran immigrants were escaping from. I know he's said it a smaller denomination, but I think it's historically important enough to be included.
Correct. I am LCMS, and our history is immigrants from Saxony (then part of the North German Confederation) were most unhappy about the Prussian Union and left for America. Landed in New Orleans and went up the Mississippi to Perry County in the St. Louis area. headquarters in St. Louis and that is why we have the "Missouri" Synod name. LCMS came out of German State Churches, shortly after Prussian Union.
You missed a very large group of other separate Dutch reformed denominations. The Protestant Church in The Netherlands is just one of the reformed churches in The Netherlands. You've missed the relatively large Reformed Congregations (Gereformeerde Gemeenten) for example. Furthermore you've missed the Restored Reformed Church, which is a breakaway church of the Protestant Church in The Netherlands which is also quite large.
I agree. I understand placing the entire Protestant landscape in the Netherlands in this graph is difficult. I think this simplification paints a wrong picture. The relatively small town I went to church back in the day had 5 different denominations spread along the main street.
So far, only the Reformed (very large) and the Lutheran (rather small) parts of the Protestant landscape in the Netherlands have been sketched. What Mark ( @UsefulCharts ) has said in the video: “Because of the nature of Presbyterian church government, there were a lot of splits and mergers within American Presbyterianism. I won’t show most of them, however. …” goes for Reformed Protestantism in the Netherlands - which is usually intermediate between Presbyterian and Congregationalist in church government - as well. There are probably as many Reformed denominations in the Netherlands as there are in the USA: several dozens, despite the country having the population of a medium State. The “50 groups of Dutch Protestants” mentioned by @Gert de Jong downthread are not that exaggerated. And there are links between Reformed denominations and their diversity in the US and the Netherlands, as @Louis Hannett has pointed out downthread. To list all the details of this diversity is, I think beyond the scope of this chart and video series. Nevertheless, I agree, that the brief overview of Reformed Protestantism in the Netherlands is not representative. specifically: 1. A factual error is that the split did not take place in 1892. There were two splits, in 1834 and 1886, and the resulting churches merged in 1892. 2. The diversity of Reformed denominations in the Netherlands is significantly underrepresented by showing the ‘Reformed Churches in the Netherlands’ resulting from that 1892 merger as the only result of the splits. It was only the largest of the denominations resulting from the split. Various other groups split from these, both before and after the merger, and fragmented further since. The details of that fragmentation are beyond the scope of the chart, but the existence of that Reformed spectrum is very significant for the perception of Protestantism in the Netherlands, and the role it plays in Dutch society and politics. Small towns with five or more •Reformed• Protestant churches, as mentioned by Martin Emmaneel, are not rare in the Netherlands’ Bible Belt. The spectrum can be categorised into three ‘streams’: conservative orthodox, modern evangelical, and ‹bevindelijk›, close to puritan and pietist. The third stream are the ‘black stocking churches’ as mentioned by @cynthia van teylingen downthread. 3. At the beginning of Dutch Reformed Protestantism, at the Synod of Dordt 1618-1619 that basically defined the Dutch Reformed Church, the Arminians were forced out of the church, and formed their own denomination, the Remonstrant Church, somewhat related to Methodism and Baptism. Although tiny, this denomination survived to the present day and is historically significant, not just for the Dutch churches, but for the Dutch nation (and even beyond: every expert on the Law of Nations in the world knows of Hugo de Groot); the split being accompanied by one of the most reverberating politically motivated death sentences in Dutch history. The many denominations under 2 have made creative use of the fact that the Dutch language has two different words, that in English can both really only be translated as ‘reformed’: ‹hervormd› and ‹gereformeerd›. The same, indeed, that were mentioned upthread by @Gert van den Berg as having been taken over by Afrikaans; Reformed Protestantism and its divisions in South Africa were directly derived from the Netherlands, like the language. This is a reversal of the situation usually existing between English and Dutch: English often has both a Germanic and a Romance derived form of the same word, the forms having subsequently diverged in sense, whereas Dutch has only the Germanic form. In this case, Dutch has both the Germanic and Romance derived forms, and uses them to make a distinction, where the English has only the Romance derived form. In fact, the two Dutch churches mentioned in the chart in this episode prior to the 2004 merger use the different words; the ‘Dutch Reformed Church’ being the ‹Nederlands Hervormde Kerk› and the ‘Reformed Churches in the Netherlands’ being the ‹Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland›. Among the Reformed spectrum that I’ve mentioned under 2. there are three or four of more significant size, the ‹Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland (vrijgemaakt)›, ‘Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (freed)’, the ‹Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland›, ‘Christian Reformed Churches in the Netherlands’ (parallelled in the US as mentioned by @Louis Hannett downthread), the ‹Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland en Noord-Amerika›, ‘Reformed Congregations in the Netherlands and North America’ (mentioned by M. A. above), and possibly the ‹Nederlands Gereformeerde Kerken›, ‘Dutch Reformed Churches’ - now you see the problem? A fifth sizeable denomination arose from refusing the 2004 merger: the ‹Hersteld Hervormde Kerk›, ‘Restored Reformed Church’ (mentioned by M. A. above). The distinction between the denominations does not exactly match that between the three ‘streams’ I wrote about above. All this is just a very brief summary of the full picture of Dutch Reformed Protestantism, believe me!
I would love for you to explore the longest direct line from a modern person. Essentially how far back can a person trace their ancestry. With no assumptions, names in every place. I am so curious.
See "who do you think you are" where folk (like Danny Dyer) can trace either a legitimate Female or illegitimate male or female line back to a monarch , which then is certainly back to William of Normandy and thence the Saxon Kings of England as the heralds have the main long ancestral tree. There are probably similar for French.German.Italian. Chinese and Japanese families too as these would be documented. It is more difficult in the UK to find a "commoner" line of decent from 1066 onwards due to attrition of any written sources unless they stayed in one area and the church ministers were very dilligent in correctly and comprehensively recording baptisms and marriages.
There's only one family tree that answers this: the family tree of the Kong clan, the descendants of Confucius. The main family line is currently in the 86th generation. They are scattered in China, Taiwan and Korea. EDIT: It should be the 80th generation, not 86th.
If non royal, maybe back to the 1500s to 1600s. For Royals, from the 1000s. The family trees of Royals are very well documented. For my paternal family, I can trace it to the 1700s. Would have been further back but one dumb AF many times great grandmother burned all records and there's only a will.
I'd add a line from the Prussian union of churches to the LCMS because many Lutherans in the US who formed the Synod trace their staring point to the problems of the Prussian union church.
It should be noted that the Church of England as we know it really developed under Queen Elizabeth 1. Henry's break was with the Roman pope and not other points of theology. The break ended under Queen Mary his daughter because she was still loyal to Rome (sometimes called Bloody Queen Mary because of her persecution of Protestants)
Henry VIII was Lord Protector of the Reformer Archbishop Thomas Cranmer. He did not allow Cranmer the free hand for reform though but his younger children did. Elizabeth I restored her mentors reform but with less radicalism after her older sister killed Cranmer and tried to reverse his reforms.
It exist also the "Church of Apostolic Albania" or "Church of Caucasian Albania" which is one tof the first national churches related to the caucasian of Albania (now called the Udi people) which existed during the Middle Ages, then it gets integrated in the Armenian Apostolic Church and the regain the independence. Is now an small church, but has its historical importance. Its similar to the Armenian Apostoclic Church (not Calcedonian christians).
Great video once again! I want to suggest updating the chart to include the three Personal Ordinariates, which were created for Anglicans/Episcopalians who wanted to break ties with their original churches and join the Catholic Church. It’s not it’s own sui jurus church like the other 24 that make up the Catholic church, but it is a unique part of the Latin church that I feel is worth of a spot on the chart :).
In British Columbia (Canada), there was quite a lot of movement of clergy who moved from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism. It would be an interesting footnote (and dotted) line.
A Catholic Church I attended in Texas was led by a priest who had been a married Episcopal priest first and came into the Catholic Church later. I think in this century, it's a mistake for the Latin church to insist on celibate (meaning "not-married") priests. For a lot of reasons, but celibacy is not an unbreakable rule in the priesthood and the Pope absolutely could lighten up about that.
@@rmdodsonbills I agree that celibacy isn’t dogmatic in the church but it’s not as simple as you may think. Most married priests aren’t in favor of removing the vow of celibacy, and most of the ones I’ve heard of agree with their wives to abstain from sex after their ordination.
@@louisrharmony It didn't say getting rid of it would be simple, I said keeping it is a mistake. A few more points: 1) since when are priests' opinions on what the church should or shouldn't do relevant? This ain't a democracy. 2) what married couples decide to do with their sex lives is non of my business, and irrelevant to the point. 3) I do want to make sure I'm clear here: I'm not advocating releasing anyone from any current vows of celibacy, but I am advocating for the church not to impose such vows on any future priests. Just in case that wasn't clear.
Some remarks about the Greek Catholic churches in the lands of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. So in 1596 after the Union of Brest the Ruthenian Uniate Church was formed and it became widely spread among the population of former Lithuania. Though the Church had its subdivision into eparchies, neither they were considered as separate churches nor they altogether were considered as Ukrainian GCC (as you noted on the chart (2:07)). Today's Ukrainian GCC and Belarusian GCC are mere descendants of that Uniate Church though there was no offisial breakup: circumstances developed in such way that after the opportunity to practice Uniatism appeared in the former Russian Empire again, the Ukrainian and Belarusian churches were restored separately (plus part of Ukrainian lands on the West didn't get into the Russian Empire after the Partititions and Greek Catholicism wasn't banned there). Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, on the other hand, developed separately afther the other Union (and in the other country) and is marked on your chart correctly
I was not raised religiously, I came to Christ about 12 years ago. I know what I believe and I know how our church is run. I don't know what about it makes it uniquely "baptist". I'm looking forward to episode 4
I'm hoping the Quakers / Society of Friends will be included in the next video too. However, I think you're going to need a LOT of little boxes by the time we arrive at the foot of this chart.
90% of comments: "You totally missed {insert small Protestant group that I know about} and you absolutely should've mentioned the Scots-Nebraskan Unified Anglican Holy Church of Everything in Australia and the Congo!"
I'd love to see that Anabaptist video on the Amish and Menonnite sects. I live in Ohio's Amish country and only know them by their surnames. Obviously there is the old order and such, but I am friends with many of the Troyer clan and Fredericktown clan, but have spoken with some very old school Swartzentrubers and Elkharts.
Great video. Now you talk about the Old Believers, there are actually varipus groups that reject the Nikon reform: the "Bezpopovtsy" and the "Raskolniks" or "Popovsty". Is a complex movement, but also some of them born from them, like the Dukhobors (spiritual warriors) or Molokans (milk-drinkers) who are similar to some practices of the protestant reformation in Russia. Now most of them live in Russia, the Caucasus and America. Other interesting sects are the Khlysty and the Postniki, the New and the Old Israel. Also there exist the Dry baptists, that come fron the Molokans and the Sons of Freedom that come from the Dukhobors. Finally, there exist some groups like the "Iconoclasts" (yes, like in the East Roman Empire) called Ikonoborsty and the "Judaizers" or the "Shalaputs" who profound in the judaism rotts of christianity. Other one can be the Dukh Zizhniki, but is even smaller. Some of this groups even merged with protestant churches in the USA or Canada, like the anabaptist. Another interestint group could be the Skoptsy, a sect that tries to destroy lust by castration or the mastectony of their followers. Some of these groups have an ethnical background (for example, the Molokans drink milk during fasting like the Nestorian Mongols that lived in Russia) and also religious characteristics, like not having an organized clergy, the importance of spiritualism or the abscense of icons. Also, some of them are pacifist like the Quakers. All of them can be under the term "Spiritual Christians", but their origins are quite diverse and their influences are different. Could be the orthodox protestants.
Nice comprehensive video indeed! When mentioning Moravian Church, are you also planning to include the current Czech protestant churches (doing in 1918-1920 the same joint as the German protestant churches later on) or is it under your intended resolution? There's quite a funny history about the Toleration Patent issued by Joseph II. in 1781 and its consequences, as well as what happened after WWI and the Austro-Hungarian Empire breakup.
Love the series, and looked forward to this episode. Though both the Faroese and Icelandic churches that separated from the Danish aren’t included, as well as the Finnish church that split from the Swedish church
For the reformed section, i think you could add more branch churches in dutch colonies. Such in Indonesia, there are a lot of separated churches based on ethno-linguistic groups, althought they're majority registered in workd reformed communion
Agreed. My wife is from a Calvinist family in the Netherlands. I don't know all the ins-and-outs, but I'm pretty sure there's more, and probably significant, detail which could be added, even within the Netherlands. Really enjoying this series, btw NB Looks like he's added something in the next video, but didn't mention it in his intro.
I was 9 when the merger happened in 1988; my home church was LCA before that. After what happened in Germany during WWII, ELCA churches now are VERY CAREFUL to NOT get involved in politics, to the point of not even using patriotic music during services.
@@augiegirl1 I mean, both the church I grew up in and the church I attend now (both ELCA) play patriotic music (mostly around Fourth of July & 9/11), so I think it just varies from congregation to congregation.
@@patrickblanchette4337 I should rephrase: there are some patriotic HYMNS in the hymnal that are played at services, like “My Country, T’is of Thee”, “Faith of our Fathers”, & “Battle Hymn of the Republic”. Any general patriotic songs, like “Yankee Doodle Dandy”, or The Armed Forces Medley, are what they avoid.
As a Wisconsinite, I was surprised to hear you mention the WI Synod. You were quire spot on saying they are more conservative than the Missouri. Thanks-
Right. It was awesome to get the shout out, but it would be cool to have made the chart. While we might not be the biggest, we are pretty wide spread across the US, especially when considering the Midwest. I'm curious to the percentage of US residents that are part of the WELS, but the fact that you can't throw a stone in Milwaukee without hitting a WELS church or school, I feel, shows it's number, even if many of those churches may be under the 300 communicant mark
I think it ought to be noted that, while New England was once dominated by congregationalism, Colonial America was always much more religiously diverse than the rest of the British Empire. New York alone had 14 houses of worship representing 11 Christian denominations, plus Judaism, with much the same in Pennsylvania. Unitarianism was rapidly eclipsing Congregationalism in New England by the time of independence; Huguenots were in basically every coastal city, Maryland was mostly Catholic, Baptists were just all over the place; there were Jewish communities in New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island (until independence), Virginia (after independence), South Carolina, and Georgia; and even a scattering of Muslims.
Hi Matt, great video as always. A pair of points i think worth adding to the final chart. Ulrich Zwingly was a contemporary of Luther's based in Zurich, and with him the reformation began in Switzerland, earlier than just with Calvin in the West. Also the Presbyterian church exists in both Australia and New Zealand too.
I think one reason why there's a lot of breakaways every now and then with these churches is the way people perceive this Truth when there is only One Truth. We are probably just learning to grasp this on our own emphasis so that each individual will be able to understand what it meant. This is really an amazing chart because it allows you to look st the whole. It makes me realize that there's a lot of churches out there serves different purposes and goals and visions but all serves one mission and that is to spread the Word. Now people will continue to grow and do some other type of churches out there (probably) but the one who survives till the end will inherit life (eternal).
I am not sure if this in the upcoming episode, but in Canada, Methodist’s have had a huge impact on our history/culture especially in Ontario. They all joined with others in the 1920’s into the United Church…..now the fastest shrinking church in Canada.
It seems that Methodists have not been good with (a) retention of children in the faith, possibly due to economic factors and smaller families, and (b) having a evangelising program, which both the Anglicans and The Pentecostal churches have argueably taken over , Anglicans as a "establishment evangelism"- church funded/governed schools and the church as the parish hatch match and despatch role, and the Pentecostal (or style) churches in the be-living faith systems.
As a member of the church of Iceland, I was looking forward to seeing it on the tree. I do believe it should fall under Lutheran denominations but it wasn’t there. It would be very much appreciated if you were to add it to the tree.
The situation in the Netherlands is a bit more detailed, but is also difficult to translate. The problem is that we have two words for reformed: hervormd and gereformeerd. So although it is true that the Dutch reformed Church (Nederlands Hervormde kerk) merged into the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, there still exists a small group whose name also translates to the Dutch reformed church, namely the Nederlands gereformeerde kerk. This church is one of several that have emerged from various splits from the original Dutch reformed Church and its descendants.
Just one thing that i noticed that is missing. In 1809 "Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland" split from swedish one due to annexation of finland. Not that this is too important but just one detail that could be added.
Well the Australian Anglicans have unofficial High Church (robes, incense, partly Catholic theology like reverence for saints) and Low Church (mainstream Protestant) branches. Within each of those, there are conservative and liberal groups. While I'm not religious, I find the different approaches interesting and I know people who are liberal low church, conservative low church and conservative high church. It's the conservative low church who are the separatists, the other groups seem to be able to work together despite their differing beliefs.
I hope the Transylvanian and Hungarian Unitarian (anti-Trinitarian) Church will be mentioned in the next episode as well as the name of Miguel Servet and Ferenc Dávid among others.
Again, quite interesting. :) Perhaps you could also include the Cathars/Albigensians? I don't know if they qualify as Proto-Protestants, but I think they deserve a mention in the overall chart because of their unique ideas and their bloody repression by Rome. After all, the Inquisition was pretty much created because of them.
I reawatched his videos to be sure, and you were right, he hasn't mentioned the Cathars. Although, I wouldn't consider them proto-protestant, more like neo-gnostic.
@@shanebrown2009 I think that's an insane view. What made them a death cult? Anything I've ever seen on them says they favoured pacifism, piety, simple living and Christian teaching. And this is even from the Catholics who butchered most of them and the very few documents written by cathars themselves. 'Death cult'? What a strange thing to say. The main issue the Catholics had with it was its Gnostic teaching; that there are 2 gods. The wicked god of the old testament, who made matter, and the good god of the new testament that made spirit. This is really the only issue the Catholics had. There is more research on this topic where I heard that modern historians even doubt the cathars were real at the time. And that Catholic torture of 'cathars' and leading questions forced a few to 'admit' that they were Gnostics.
Really enjoying this series. I want to suggest an edit. Under the Presbyterian denomination, you mentioned various others that were not on the chart. My denomination, Cumberland Presbyterian is actually it's own denomination. We split from the Presbyterians in 1810 over theological differences (the main ones centering around our belief in free will as opposed to the Presbyterian belief of predestination) and formed our own denomination. For the next 100 years, we grew at an amazing rate, outpacing most other denominations in the US, and eventually amassing many dozen universities and a multitude of congregations. In the early 1900's, the Presbyterians, having come around to our way of theological thinking, wished to merge back with our successful denomination. Some in the Cumberland Presbyterian church were for a merger, while others were against it. Eventually, through several years of litigation, the Presbyterian church absorbed most of the Cumberland churches back. The remaining remnant of holdouts form what is still today the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination, about 60,000 strong, mostly in the southern US, but many all over the world. Thank you for your entertaining and useful channel, and for considering my edit.
usefulCharts, I reckon that you forgot to mention on your previous video the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church, which was created by an excommunicated Roman catholic.
Fascinating video but you either missed an important denomination in the US or you plan to include it later. The denomination is the Reformed Church in America (RCA) which claims to be the oldest Protestant denomination in the US going back to the explorations of Henry Hudson and the founding the New York City, then New Amsterdam. The Christian Reformed Church is a break away denomination. The RCA, previously called the Dutch Reformed Church in America, was actually involved in the founding of Queens College, now Rutgers University. The RCA has congregations in NY primarily along the Hudson Valley and northern NJ, as well as throughout Michigan, Iowa and Illinois. Congregations in the midwest adhere more strongly to their Dutch heritage and tend to be more conservative than in the northeast. this is due to separate migrations of Dutch in the mid 19th century to the midwest as opposed to earlier migrations of Dutch to the east coast around NY/NJ. The RCA has 2 seminaries, the older one, New Brunswick Theological Seminary, in New Brunswick, NJ, purports to be the oldest seminary in the US. And, yes, I grew up in the RCA but no longer affiliate as I have come to see myself as a pretty strong agnostic yet retain a strong sentiment for the denomination and its history. Thanks.
I'm not a Christian and idk a lot about Christianity but I'm pretty certain that there exists an Anglican church in India. So i studied in a school that called itself protestant. It's under the diocese of Calcutta in st. Paul's cathedral which I believe is Anglican (?) And as far as my understanding goes, it is related to the church of north India and the church of England.
Another good video! However, I do have a couple criticisms. Then I will also like to put my biases foward. I am a member of the Episcopal Church and a firm believer in Branch Theory as put forth by the Tractarians during the Oxford Movement in the 1830s. Now to the body of this. I wouldn’t put the Anglican Church under the umbrella of Protestant. I would argue that it is part of an older branch of distinctly English Christianity. Supposedly, Christianity was first brought to the British Isles by St. Joseph of Arimathea in the first century. Then by the fourth century Christianity was very prevalent within modern day England. Then in 595, Pope Gregory chose St. Augustine of Canterbury to convert the Anglo-Saxon King, Æthelberht. With his conversion, the English Church was then brought under Papal authority. With this also, the king controlling Canterbury, then the King of Kent, could appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury. Then comes Henry VIII. I would say that, he wasn’t wanting to break from Papal authority merely for an annulment (not a divorce), but rather his piety, thinking God cursed him for, what he believed was a violation of God’s Law, by marrying his brother’s widow. Then the Pope doesn’t let him have an annulment, for what can be assumed were political motivations due to the connection with the connection with the Spanish crown. Then with the influence of Thomas Cranmer, he asserts the doctrine of caeseropapism, as seen in the early church in the Eastern Roman Empire, and then reasserting the independence of the ancient Church in England. And it wasn’t until after Henry’s death and the accession of King Edward, that the church took a Reformed turn. Then the Church of England came back under Papal control with Mary I. However, we split the last time with Good Queen Bess and the church became less Reformed with the Elizabethan Settlement. Then, my second criticism is showing the Episcopal Church coming directly out of the Church of England, I believe it should be shown as descending of the Church of England and the Scottish Episcopal Church. Our first Bishops, namely our first presiding bishop, Samuel Seabury, were ordained by bishops of the Scottish Episcopal Church, since they did not have to take an oath to the Crown. I can get into the weeds about this, however as this is a TH-cam comment section I’ll leave it at this for now. I can discuss this more or provide resources for anyone interested.
It's probably best not to listen to this because branch theory is well known Anglo-Catholic cope. Anglicanism is absolutely Protestant and all of our defining documents are Protestant. "Then with the influence of Thomas Cranmer..." Who, might I add, was undoubtedly a Protestant and had already become a Protestant through contact with the continental reformers.
@@ArdensSedVirens1 I’m not denying our reformation heritage. In fact, it is one of our defining features. However, I think calling ourselves Protestant is a little silly, due to the uniqueness of the English Reformation and the history of the English Church. I think a better descriptor would be Reformed Catholic, more so than anything. In fact, we are the via media between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism.
@@samuelspicer7468 Well no, it isn't silly precisely because of our Reformational heritage. Nothing you have wrote has given me the impression that England is unique, investiture was famously controversial in the Middle Ages. "In fact, we are the via media between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism." Only according to the Oxford Movement. When the Anglican divines used language of a 'middle way' they meant a middle way between the Reformed and the Lutherans, not Protestantism at large and Papism. It is unsurprising, due to this language of 'Via Media' being used now, that many Anglo-Catholics will just end up swimming the Tiber and becoming Papists.
There is no reason to actually listen to this. These videos are meant to provide information about the *actual* historical reasons behind why schisms and church independences occurred, not about the traditions that each individual church has to explain their own origins and to dismiss their opponents as heretics and what not. And since the channel so far has avoided doing this for the other denominations so far, it would be extremely unfair for yours to get that privilege. Frankly, it makes no sense.
@@ArdensSedVirens1 First off, I would like to say that I hope this makes sense and doesn’t come across as a mess of points. Now to the point. I’m well aware of the original connotation, however as our church grew, our practices have changed to become more like Medieval Christianity. With the Oxford Movement, getting back to pre-Reformation practices (I.e. wearing of vestments and centrality of the Eucharist) were important and largely adopted by the church over the next hundred years. With Branch Theory also, we also recognize Scandinavian Lutherans and Moravians for keeping that key institutional part of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, being the Episcopacy, as being part of the True Church. Alongside a higher view of the Sacraments and sacramental theology. On top of that, the English Church has spent more time outside of Papal control than it has inside it. For the first 600 years it was independent, until St. Augustine of Canterbury, and then breaking with the highly corrupt Papists in the 1530s. So, what I’m trying to say is that, although we differ in doctrine (I would argue rightfully so), but in large part because we have conserved the institutional aspect of the Church we are not entirely Protestant. Now that being said. I’m not disputing the Reformational part of our heritage as being irrelevant. What I am saying is that our church, the Anglican Church, is a church with ancient roots, that although it broke away from Roman Catholicism during the English Reformation, doesn’t put it on par with Calvinism when it comes to historical legitimacy. I guess that might be where we differ. I think having that historical lineage tracing back to the Apostles via our bishops is important and highly relevant to our practice. Like I said before, we are Reformed Catholics, an ancient historical church that took on a flavor of Reformed Christianity in the 1500s.
Fantastic video, as a Russian Orthodox, sometimes the entire reformed and anglican tree seems so distant and foreign. This truly helps me understand the differences
There’s no coherence to what they did because they lack the sacraments and lack validly ordained priests. The great source of Satan’s influence over the West came from the doors their rebellion opened
One of the Catholics that seem to be overlooked in this chart is the Old Catholics. They retained their Catholic heritage during Reformation. They are separate from Rome yet recognized by Rome. From the Old Catholics come many, "independent' Catholic churches in the US.
I believe that this would sit next to the other Nordic churches, Wikipedia says that it separated from the Church of Denmark, though reading around the matter, people seem to have different opinions on the extent of the Danish church’s influence
You need to include the Lollards on this chart. The influences on Hus were big. Any underground Lollards would have become part of the Protestant movement when Henry VIII decided that he didn’t want to be buddies with the pope anymore.
Continue to Episode 4: th-cam.com/video/7yDgCZ_ZR8M/w-d-xo.html
Watch Ready to Harvest's video: th-cam.com/video/8ZWa7GHnP4k/w-d-xo.html
EYYOOOOO LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO
My opinion. First of, neither deeds or faith bring salvation. Only Jesus. Scripture is rather clear that it is God, who would judge our souls based on intentions, so if we actually are or try to be good people, rather then what we did or if we believe. Secondary. Scripture was written primarily for goat farmers and old Jewish temple. There is merit in argument that role of Church is interpretations of specific events in the bible basing on educated analyze, rather then arbitrarily interpretations of something written for completely different culture. Even if it is true that Church at the time did go too far due to corruption and infighting between different Popes (detail lot of people forget). Counter-Reformation actually recognized some justified complains and solve problem of multiple Popes.
About Kelvinist predestination. It is based on misinterpretation. Though it is true that God know everything, God can everything and as he exist bound time, creation was in a sense concluded. But we still are ones who make the decisions. Whole argument seams to be rather attempt of answering on faith vs deeds debate and making things worst. In the end it is redundant debate, because it doesn't really matter.
You could also put Manichaeism as a gnostic religion, next to Mandaeism. It was once a major religion, especially in North Africa and even compared to christianity there. With the rise of Islam it was persecuted but until today there are Manichaean communities, especially in Fujian, China.
@@shyuw6473 Interesting
Could you add the Lollards as Proto-Protestants when you next update the chart!
One believer, a prophet; two believers, a church; three believers, a schism.
You have 10 fingers and 10 toes. Is it better to sew them together?
@@neuralwarp that's a Catholic order level split (Dominicans lead the inquisition, Jesuits teach, Franciscans take care of the poor) not a church level split (they don't even share Presbytes)
Alternatively, one believer would be a heretic
@@makearunat All founding prophets are heretics-they broke away from one religion to start another. Abraham, Buddha, L. Ron Hubbard, Jesus, Martin Luther, Mohammed, Guru Nanak, Joseph Smith, Zarathustra etc.
four believers, a fight
I'm eagarly awaiting the Christian denominations tier list after we've covered the whole family tree
how to start a crusade lmao
Easy, all are F tier
Orthodoxy is A tier, the rest are F
@@ICXC07 Go outside
lmaoooo
18:25 Note: Switzerland had two centers of reformation. One was in Geneva, led by Calvin; the other was in Zurich, led by Zwingli. They had some theological differences, but after a few decades they were able to come together in the Consensus Tigurinus.
I know one was symbolism vs spiritual presence in the Eucharist. Were there any other?
Zwingli didn‘t emphasize predestination as much as Calvin.
@@simon_gabriel573 this is funny because Calvin thinks Zwingli goes too far on predestination
Zwingli actually was first, although his reform movement often seems to get overlooked by the better-known Geneva movement. Zwingli's reform church was established not very long after Lutheranism -- in the 1520s. Unfortunately, by the time of the Consensus Tigurinus, Zwingli himself was dead, having horribly died in battle during internecine wars in Switzerland.
Also the complex borders of some cantons go back to reformation and which town joined which side.
I would also add the Evangelical Lutheran church of Finland onto the chart. It separated from the church of Sweden in 1809 and is still main religious group in Finland.
Agree. At 3,7m members and state church position it is comparable to the other Nordic churches now included. Note that separation was not dogmatic, but due to Finland changing hands from Sweden to Russia
Estonian and Latvian churches should also be added, as they're independent too.
definitely!
He's missing a whole lot with this chart, really. There are the several state churches, the Ukrainian and Russian Lutherans, the Lutherans of Kenya, South Africa, and New Guinea, not to mention the fact that there are a ton of smaller Lutheran denominations in the United States and Canada that he has implied don't even exist. Probably, a better way of looking at Lutheranism would be through the lens of the Lutheran World Federation, the International Lutheran Council, and the Confessing Evangelical Lutheran Council, and then maybe an "other Lutheran" category for the really small ones.
@@alm9322 i think generally the (former) official state churches like the faroes & icelandic churches
This series is what I’ve been waiting for. As a Catholic the different branches of Christianity have always fascinated me. So excited for the next episode
As a Jew, SAME here!
As a theologically conservative Lutheran, I can say the same.
As an atheist I find it interesting as well
As a Maronite Catholic, SAME here too, I love this series
Very interesting series, assuming the non conformists will appear in a future episode including the likes of the unitarians, Quakers and so on on
Don't forget the Scottish Episcopal Church! The Anglican mass in Scotland, often called "The English Church" but structurally separate from the Churches of England and Scotland. Founded by James VI & I and Scotland's third largest church.
Adding to this - the Scottish Episcopal Church passed apostolic succession by consecrating Samuel Seabury in 1784 as the Episcopal Church's (USA) first bishop. Without them, the Episcopal Church in the US would not exist!
Would it not be Service instead of Mass?
@@tomasroma2333 CofE tend to use Communion/Eucharist/Mass somewhat interchangeable, almost depending on the expected numbers of persons attended. There will be services where there is no Eucharist segment of it , which tend to be aimed at younger families. I assume the Anglicans in Scotland follow a similar pattern
@@highpath4776 Ah okay. I ask cause in the Church of Ireland. Everyone calls it Service and if you call it Mass you are probably a Catholic.
@@tomasroma2333 I have only been to one Church of Ireland service, I think there was a lack of time for communion as the incumbent covered two parishes, so one was a 9am then a drive to the next church for a 1030am. no organist so music was from LP records.
I am so excited for the complete chart this is what we need!
The importance of the printing press cannot be overstated when discussing History. The protestant reformation would not have been possible without the mass distribution of ideas.
Great work Matt. It would be interesting to see some kind of “current size” indication for major divisions. Maybe just a pie chart on the side as a companion. I know there is enough relevant info on this topic to fill textbooks so I applaud your willingness to step into the fray and try and provide an overview for a wide audience - as well as partner with another channel :)
Yeah, that would be cool.
I was expecting to be confused as I was with the Habsburg family tree. Was not disappointed.
I’ve been Christian all my life (raised Pentecostal in the Assemblies of God) and I was never taught most of this. So thankful for the knowledge and perspective!
I grew up Assemblies of God nice to have you here.
@@holyhills4186 oh cool! Thank you! ☺️
My mother is Anglican and moved to Spain in 2020 and she had to search high and low to find an English speaking Anglican church in a predominantly Catholic country. She did eventually find one and she attends regularly but it was a hard search.
There are some Lutheran based ones thanks to the Germans using Spain as a holiday destination. Some will hold meetings in hotel areas for people on long term holiday / time shares rather than in a church building
It'd be easier if she moved to Gibraltar
@@highpath4776 my mother isn't Lutheran. She is CofE Anglican.
@@Vampirecronicler try telling my mother that.
@@lucypreece7581 Spain of course had its own problems with the Civil War (my Uncle was one of a few english who went to fight agains Franco ), and being the generally closed dictatorship until the 1980s. I went on holiday to a less well known coastal part of spain and they seemed to have an even "beyond catholic" set of holy day celebrations of local saints and establishments.
Under Presbyterianism I was expecting to see the Free Church of Scotland, which split from the Church of Scotland in 1843. Much of it merged back in with the United Presbyterian Church but there are still a bunch of separate Free Churches as a specific denomination up here. Also, yay for the first time I get to make some contribution in the comments about this series.
Glad I scanned through; I was going to ask this, too. 😊
I’m aware that as a Scot I’m biased. But yes I think this is an oversight especially considering the Scottish influence on Presbyterianism. The great Disruption really is noteworthy. I think including the PCI would be worth mentioning too.
Quite topical at the moment as well with the SNP Leadership election (which is the proxy election for First Minister). One of the candidates is a member of the Free Church and there is a debate whether some of their beliefs are compatible with being a modern day political leader.
@@jamiepayton1574 to be fair he said it spread to Ireland so PCI is basically covered under that
The trouble is that the chart of Presbyterian denominations in Scotland is almost as large as this whole chart.
Love your videos. Kind of surprised no mention of Methodism from Anglicanism. Saving for another video?
Yup. They'll come later.
@@UsefulCharts Will you be discussing the Restorationist churches, such as The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Christian Churches/Churches of Christ (DoC) and the Churches of Christ? *phew!* Aren't they originally Congregationalist also?
What about Seventh Day Adventists?
Will cover all of those.
@@UsefulCharts Hello as Czech I have some notes:
Name "Jan Hus":
a) Jan is czech variant of name John (eng) / Hans/Johann (ger), and it is pronouced more like [yaan],
b) the name generally means "John from Husinec" (Hussinetz in german), it is small town in western Bohemia,
c) before Jan Hus there was even earlier proto-reformater/church critic John Wycliff,
d) date of Hus execution is national holiday here,
e) and after WWI in 1920 there was (after creation of Czechoslovakia) created reformed "sort of national" Czechoslovak Hussite church, spliting from Catholic church
f) also after WWI in 1918 czech lutheran and reformed joined in Evangelical church of Czech Brethen (referencing also to Moravian Brethen and Jan Hus), today it is 2nd largest church here (after catholics)
*) Charles University in Prague has three theological faculties: Roman-catholic, protestant/evangelical and hussite.
You should have talked about the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter in your section about Anglicanism. That is a group of former Anglican priests (and parishes) that have converted to Catholicism and got to keep their Mass and other Anglican traditions but be in communion with Rome, a lot like how the Eastern Catholics are. The difference between what is commonly referred to as the Anglican Ordinariate and the Eastern Catholics is that the Anglican Ordinariate still falls under the Roman Rite of the Latin Church.
I agree. I attend an Ordinariate Church very often.
Yeah, there should be a dotted line somewhere for that.
That's about right, but the main difference between eastern catholics and converted anglicans is the lack of apostolic succession in England.
That's why they had to form another denomination, rather than to rejoin the Catholic Church as a whole.
Yes I was going to bring this up
I would appreciate if you can explore all the so-called "Heretic groups" that the Pre-Nicean Church comprised of
I think there were four main bands and ideas, 1) Jesus was man, not God, 2) Jesus was God, not Man, 3) there was additional "knowledge" mostly of heavens, principalities, powers (in a hierarchy of angels and enlightenments. 4) Differences on interpretation of the the existance/role of evil - Lucifer /Satan The Devil. This excludes other differences on women / included.excluded scriptures and effectively the Paul (Rome) and Peter (Jerusalem) Churches
Yes, I think this is a great suggestion. Excellent examples would be semi-Arianism, Eutychianism, and also a breakdown of the various traditions of Gnostic Christianity. Also, Acacianism.
@@highpath4776 There were many more than 4 major bands. There were at least 8 major bands. Even in Gnosticism alone, there are easily at least 6 mutually exclusive, completely different traditions that influenced early Christianity.
here are a few:
1. Legalists/Ebonites - need to keep Jewish tradition (esp circumcision) mixed with Christian belief in Jesus to earn salvation. They are similar to Jewish Ebionites of same name, it’s confusing.
2. Various Gnosticism (particularly Valentinianism) - reliance on hidden, revealed knowledge from an unknowable God, a distinct divinity from the Demiurge who created and oversees the material world; or in other variations humans are divine who are trapped in a wicked world made by Old Testament God, one of Dual Gods.
3. Marcionism - the God of Jesus was a different God from the God of t he Old Testament. Seen today again in some denominations.
4. Montanism - relied on NEW prophetic revelations from the Holy Spirit and additions to the New Testament. Similar to Jewish Merkava heterodoxy. I think modern Mormons fall into this group....
5. Adoptionism - Jesus was not born the Son of God, but was adopted at his baptism, resurrection or ascension. Similar to later Indian heresy of Avatarism (Jesus was an avatar of higher God).
6. Docetism - Jesus was pure spirit and his physical form an illusion.
7. Antinomianism - once you become a Christian you can do what ever you want, you are forgiven. No need to show God love or gratitude nor man.
8. Collyridian - Mostly female Christians who believed Mary the mother of Jesus was a god.(Only in one source, maybe legendary.)
9. various Syncretism/combination of Christianity with other pagan religions.
----There are many, many other heresies, too many to list. And those are just the known, many died off unknown, too minor to be noted.
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Then there was Arianism, which became a separate branch of Christianity for a while; the Ostrogoths in Italy, the Visigoths in Spain and the Vandals of north Africa were Arian. They believed Jesus was a junior god under a head god.
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Related is a religion influenced by Christianity and by Zoroastrianism: Manichean Gnosticism is founded by prophet Mani in Mesopotamia.
Manicheanism is a secretive dualistic religion by postulating two opposite powers - a good, spiritual world of light (heaven) of a weak God(Jesus), and an evil material (earthly) world of darkness of Satan, elements of the light are trapped in darkness; the world was created to purify the light elements leaving behind the dark world.
@@tommy-er6hh Light and Dark indeed mentioned (poss different context) in John/Revelation and in the Essens / Copper Scroll and Dead Sea Scrolls )
For your full chart, the Lutheran church in Australia came from the group leaving Germany to avoid the United church. They then schismed and since merged back together. This is why in a number of Australian towns there are two Lutheran church buildings.
The Missouri Synod in America had the same origin. Interestingly enough, the Wisconsin Synod (which isn't included in the chart) was organized by German Lutherans who were in favor of, or at least not bothered by the United church in Germany.
I think it could be mentioned that Finland and Iceland have their own Lutheran churches, since Finland was a part of Sweden during the reformation and Iceland was a part of Denmark, but still not every single church has to be on this chart
Hi, Matt. I don't know how detailed and how far into completeness you are going but I'd like to point out that the Danish Lutheran Church has a daughter church, that being the Faroese Lutheran Church which separated from the Danish church in 2007. But then there's also the churches of Finland, Iceland, and Estonia. Another interesting branch of Anglicanism is the Plymouth Brethren which became really popular in the Faroe Islands as about 12% of the population belongs to that branch.
As a german lutheran I want to add something about the major importance Bonhoeffer gained and holds till today. My religious education consisted in large parts of looking at topics from several points of view generally in the order of philosophers (2-3 different ones), bible, Luther, Bonhoeffer (time percentages being 50% „secular“ philosophy, 18% bible 17% Luther, 15%Bonhoeffer though he increased when the topic was about church vs. state)
I would consider Thomas Cramner, the archbishop of Canterbury under Henry the VIII and Edward VI to be an unofficial founder of the Church of England. Even though the King founded the church confiscated all the property, and began the appointment of bishops. It was Cramner who began introducing changes to the Catholic mass such as communion in the hand or mass in vernacular,or writing the book of Common Prayer.
True.
True
The Hussites differed slightly in doctrine, there were radical Taborites, moderate Hussites from Prague, Orphans and the eccentric Adamites. The differences resulted rather from the isolation between the armies under different commanders, but I would divide it on the chart. I would also add the God Worshipping Society, unless that is too syncretic.
I just love your work so much! Thank you. There is one nuance with the Anglican lineage. Anglicans are very proud of their link with the ancient Celtic church, which existed before Rome took over leadership and standardized the Roman rite over Sarum rite. This may be something that needs a minor mention on the chart.
A bit surprised the Scottish Episcopal Church wasn't mentioned here, as that church is directly responsible for the passage of apostolic succession to the Episcopal Church (USA) with the consecration of Samuel Seabury in 1784. Without this, there would be no Episcopal Church, as the Church of England refused to consecrate him. Yes, the EC was originally C of E before the Revolutionary War, but the Scottish Episcopal Church is what allowed them to continue being Anglican. It was at least as important to the creation of the Episcopal Church as the C of E was.
The "Seminary in Exile" came to be known as "Seminex", which (ronically) is Latin for "half-dead".
Hi, it's a gerat series and a great video again. As a minister in a German church which is part of the EKD I want to make a comment on the part about the EKD. From the self-understanding the EKD is rather a federation of churches than a church in itself. In the EKD regional churches (the national churches of the former states in the Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire) come together. Some of these churches are Lutheran, somer are Reformed and some are United Churches. So the EKD is rather an Umbrella for the regional churches than a single national church like the Swedish church. I'm not sure if it's possible to make this more clear at the chart, but maybe you find a way. Anyway saying the Evangelical Church of the Union (EKU) joined the EKD in 1984 is rather missunderstanding, because the member churches of the EKU were members of the EKD before, as well as the EKU as a whole. The EKU can be considered a sub-federation in the EKD which considered itself to be a church because all of their members were part of Prussia which was disolved as a state at the end of WW2. In 2004 this sub-federation joined together with another subfederation representing United Churches, the Arnoldshain conference to become the UEK (Union of Evangelical churches), which is one of the three subfederations under the roof of the EKD today (the other ones being the VELKD "United Evangelical Lutheran church in Germany" and the Reformed Federation "Reformierter Bund"). Furthermore there were United churches in other German states than Prussia as well - even before 1817. As far as I know the root for the EKD would be the DEK (German Evangelical Church) which was founded in 1933 as a federation of the different state churches and then very soon split into the "German Christians" (the Nazi allied church) and the "Confessing Church". Before 1933 there was nothing like a "German church" and even today it is rather a federation of chruches. I'm sure not all of this information can be put into the chart, but maybe it is helpfull! Thank you for your work - I'm really looking forward to the finished chart.
there should also a line from Hugenots to Prussian Protestants
Really? That's what you think this chart needs? More information on the evil inherently anti-semitic German church, which might as well call itself "the Nazi church"? I am surprised it even still exists. What an embarrassment to Christianity. Colour me ignorant, I am German Lutheran myself, but after watching this video I feel like this our church should just abolish itself. Why do we even still exist? If we were true to our own humble claims- then we should just dissolve and be ashamed of ourselves for eternity.
@ChristophZeiten ik but prussia got asfaik a plurality of them
The question is though: is there enough theological differences between the state churches to merit you be called seperate churches in fact?
Fact is: Through the Leuenberg Concordia the Lutheran, Unionist and Reformed state churches officially declared church unity, i.e. being one clear church body. At least from our confessional Lutheran position in the SELK (Independent Evangelical-Lutheran Church (in Germany)).
We say the if you allow the pastor to preach in your church and allow the members to commune in your church, you are practically one church, even if you have seperate institutions, because these are the visible signs of the church according to the Augsburg Confession (CA VII).
So as much as you say they are seperate: If you allow a reformed to preach in your church and allow reformed to partake in communion, what makes your theological differences so distinct as to merit one to talk of different churches?
I'm glad you mentioned the proto-Protestant groups, which are often ignored. Jan Hus was a particularly important figure (and John Wycliffe before him) who wanted a lot of the same reforms that Luther wanted. Modern Unitarians use the symbol of a chalice as a reference to Jan Hus practicing open communion with his congregants. Speaking of that I hope you cover some of the radical protestants (Anabaptists and Socinians) next time.
Wycliff followers i believe were called Lollard. They should be added to the proto-Protestant groups.
We love you Mr. Matt Baker!!! You are so awesome!!
Hello, Matt!
I'm a lutheran from Brazil and I'd love to see "our" branches at the chart aswell.
The church that I attend is IELB (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil) which trace their lineage back to the Missouri Sinod.
But there's a second lutheran church here in Brazil called IECLB (Evangelical Confessional Lutheran Church of Brazil) which came from Germany at the beginning of the XX century. Despite their name, they are more liberal than IELB.
The Moravians went to Northern Labrador and some of the oldest religious buildings in North America are in those cold northern Labrador communities. My aunt was Moravian Pentecost from Labrador they were very isolated and very religious people for 3 centuries
Great ..timely release...looking forward to watching it and being enlightening and feedback
You probably should add the evangelical lutheran churches of Finland and Iceland, since their separations from respective mother church is also quite important. The split between the reformed church in the Netherlands and those in South Africa might also be interesting to show.
As someone who has wanted to learn this stuff for so long, this video did not dissapoint! It's so cool that you updated it and took feedback into account, good for you! Can't wait for more episodes of this!
This channel has quickly become one of my favourite channels in all of TH-cam.
And definitely most watched.
Thank you for all you do 🙌🏾
With regards to your point about "evangelical" in the context of Lutheranism just meaning protestant: these are actually two different words in German, so thank you for clearing that up, because I was quite puzzled😅 Evangelisch in German is more or less synonymous with protestant (and usually used for Lutheran protestants, because that is the largest protestant denomination here), whereas evangelikal is ... well, I´m not sure if I get the distinctions right, but it is what I would use for the more conservative protestant denominations in the US (derived from pietism, puritanism that sort of thing. Charismatic (?) movements, too).
German -isch has an English cognate: -ish - “evangelish”? By contrast, I recall from somewhere that American-style evangelicalism is called “evangelikal”.
A line from the Danish State church to the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod implies the Synod is of Danish origin. In fact, it is primarily of German origin and was known as the German Evangelical Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod up to 1948. Some of the American founders of the Synod left Prussia as a result of the forced merger with Calvinists by the King of Prussia. The video is really good considering all the complexities of the evolution of post Reformation Churches.
along the same lines, he's completely missing the Synodical Conference and its breakup
I wish he would have included the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod because it was founded by missionaries from Germany who were in favor of the Unity Lutheran/Reformed church that many of the other German Lutheran immigrants were escaping from. I know he's said it a smaller denomination, but I think it's historically important enough to be included.
Correct. I am LCMS, and our history is immigrants from Saxony (then part of the North German Confederation) were most unhappy about the Prussian Union and left for America. Landed in New Orleans and went up the Mississippi to Perry County in the St. Louis area. headquarters in St. Louis and that is why we have the "Missouri" Synod name. LCMS came out of German State Churches, shortly after Prussian Union.
Thank You Matt Baker! From a Missouri Synod Lutheran Protestant
You missed a very large group of other separate Dutch reformed denominations. The Protestant Church in The Netherlands is just one of the reformed churches in The Netherlands. You've missed the relatively large Reformed Congregations (Gereformeerde Gemeenten) for example. Furthermore you've missed the Restored Reformed Church, which is a breakaway church of the Protestant Church in The Netherlands which is also quite large.
I agree. I understand placing the entire Protestant landscape in the Netherlands in this graph is difficult. I think this simplification paints a wrong picture. The relatively small town I went to church back in the day had 5 different denominations spread along the main street.
So far, only the Reformed (very large) and the Lutheran (rather small) parts of the Protestant landscape in the Netherlands have been sketched. What Mark ( @UsefulCharts ) has said in the video:
“Because of the nature of Presbyterian church government, there were a lot of splits and mergers within American Presbyterianism. I won’t show most of them, however. …” goes for Reformed Protestantism in the Netherlands - which is usually intermediate between Presbyterian and Congregationalist in church government - as well.
There are probably as many Reformed denominations in the Netherlands as there are in the USA: several dozens, despite the country having the population of a medium State. The “50 groups of Dutch Protestants” mentioned by @Gert de Jong downthread are not that exaggerated. And there are links between Reformed denominations and their diversity in the US and the Netherlands, as @Louis Hannett has pointed out downthread. To list all the details of this diversity is, I think beyond the scope of this chart and video series.
Nevertheless, I agree, that the brief overview of Reformed Protestantism in the Netherlands is not representative. specifically:
1. A factual error is that the split did not take place in 1892. There were two splits, in 1834 and 1886, and the resulting churches merged in 1892.
2. The diversity of Reformed denominations in the Netherlands is significantly underrepresented by showing the ‘Reformed Churches in the Netherlands’ resulting from that 1892 merger as the only result of the splits. It was only the largest of the denominations resulting from the split. Various other groups split from these, both before and after the merger, and fragmented further since. The details of that fragmentation are beyond the scope of the chart, but the existence of that Reformed spectrum is very significant for the perception of Protestantism in the Netherlands, and the role it plays in Dutch society and politics. Small towns with five or more •Reformed• Protestant churches, as mentioned by Martin Emmaneel, are not rare in the Netherlands’ Bible Belt. The spectrum can be categorised into three ‘streams’: conservative orthodox, modern evangelical, and ‹bevindelijk›, close to puritan and pietist. The third stream are the ‘black stocking churches’ as mentioned by @cynthia van teylingen downthread.
3. At the beginning of Dutch Reformed Protestantism, at the Synod of Dordt 1618-1619 that basically defined the Dutch Reformed Church, the Arminians were forced out of the church, and formed their own denomination, the Remonstrant Church, somewhat related to Methodism and Baptism. Although tiny, this denomination survived to the present day and is historically significant, not just for the Dutch churches, but for the Dutch nation (and even beyond: every expert on the Law of Nations in the world knows of Hugo de Groot); the split being accompanied by one of the most reverberating politically motivated death sentences in Dutch history.
The many denominations under 2 have made creative use of the fact that the Dutch language has two different words, that in English can both really only be translated as ‘reformed’: ‹hervormd› and ‹gereformeerd›. The same, indeed, that were mentioned upthread by @Gert van den Berg as having been taken over by Afrikaans; Reformed Protestantism and its divisions in South Africa were directly derived from the Netherlands, like the language. This is a reversal of the situation usually existing between English and Dutch: English often has both a Germanic and a Romance derived form of the same word, the forms having subsequently diverged in sense, whereas Dutch has only the Germanic form. In this case, Dutch has both the Germanic and Romance derived forms, and uses them to make a distinction, where the English has only the Romance derived form.
In fact, the two Dutch churches mentioned in the chart in this episode prior to the 2004 merger use the different words; the ‘Dutch Reformed Church’ being the ‹Nederlands Hervormde Kerk› and the ‘Reformed Churches in the Netherlands’ being the ‹Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland›. Among the Reformed spectrum that I’ve mentioned under 2. there are three or four of more significant size, the ‹Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland (vrijgemaakt)›, ‘Reformed Churches in the Netherlands (freed)’, the ‹Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland›, ‘Christian Reformed Churches in the Netherlands’ (parallelled in the US as mentioned by @Louis Hannett downthread), the ‹Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland en Noord-Amerika›, ‘Reformed Congregations in the Netherlands and North America’ (mentioned by M. A. above), and possibly the ‹Nederlands Gereformeerde Kerken›, ‘Dutch Reformed Churches’ - now you see the problem? A fifth sizeable denomination arose from refusing the 2004 merger: the ‹Hersteld Hervormde Kerk›, ‘Restored Reformed Church’ (mentioned by M. A. above). The distinction between the denominations does not exactly match that between the three ‘streams’ I wrote about above.
All this is just a very brief summary of the full picture of Dutch Reformed Protestantism, believe me!
I would love for you to explore the longest direct line from a modern person. Essentially how far back can a person trace their ancestry. With no assumptions, names in every place. I am so curious.
See "who do you think you are" where folk (like Danny Dyer) can trace either a legitimate Female or illegitimate male or female line back to a monarch , which then is certainly back to William of Normandy and thence the Saxon Kings of England as the heralds have the main long ancestral tree. There are probably similar for French.German.Italian. Chinese and Japanese families too as these would be documented. It is more difficult in the UK to find a "commoner" line of decent from 1066 onwards due to attrition of any written sources unless they stayed in one area and the church ministers were very dilligent in correctly and comprehensively recording baptisms and marriages.
There's only one family tree that answers this: the family tree of the Kong clan, the descendants of Confucius. The main family line is currently in the 86th generation. They are scattered in China, Taiwan and Korea.
EDIT: It should be the 80th generation, not 86th.
@@izenkixiron5173 FYI - Wikipedia transliterates their names as "Gokbu Gong" clan.
@@tompw3141 That's the name of the Korean branch, and it's correct.
If non royal, maybe back to the 1500s to 1600s. For Royals, from the 1000s.
The family trees of Royals are very well documented.
For my paternal family, I can trace it to the 1700s. Would have been further back but one dumb AF many times great grandmother burned all records and there's only a will.
I'd add a line from the Prussian union of churches to the LCMS because many Lutherans in the US who formed the Synod trace their staring point to the problems of the Prussian union church.
there should also a line from hugenots to prussia
It should be noted that the Church of England as we know it really developed under Queen Elizabeth 1. Henry's break was with the Roman pope and not other points of theology. The break ended under Queen Mary his daughter because she was still loyal to Rome (sometimes called Bloody Queen Mary because of her persecution of Protestants)
Henry VIII was Lord Protector of the Reformer Archbishop Thomas Cranmer. He did not allow Cranmer the free hand for reform though but his younger children did. Elizabeth I restored her mentors reform but with less radicalism after her older sister killed Cranmer and tried to reverse his reforms.
It exist also the "Church of Apostolic Albania" or "Church of Caucasian Albania" which is one tof the first national churches related to the caucasian of Albania (now called the Udi people) which existed during the Middle Ages, then it gets integrated in the Armenian Apostolic Church and the regain the independence. Is now an small church, but has its historical importance. Its similar to the Armenian Apostoclic Church (not Calcedonian christians).
I have been tempted by so many of your charts. But this one, will be the first one I buy. I am so excited about this poster. This is amazing.
I like that ultimately you’ll be able to play “Where’s Waldo” on this chart. ;)
Great video once again! I want to suggest updating the chart to include the three Personal Ordinariates, which were created for Anglicans/Episcopalians who wanted to break ties with their original churches and join the Catholic Church. It’s not it’s own sui jurus church like the other 24 that make up the Catholic church, but it is a unique part of the Latin church that I feel is worth of a spot on the chart :).
In British Columbia (Canada), there was quite a lot of movement of clergy who moved from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism. It would be an interesting footnote (and dotted) line.
A Catholic Church I attended in Texas was led by a priest who had been a married Episcopal priest first and came into the Catholic Church later. I think in this century, it's a mistake for the Latin church to insist on celibate (meaning "not-married") priests. For a lot of reasons, but celibacy is not an unbreakable rule in the priesthood and the Pope absolutely could lighten up about that.
@@rmdodsonbills I agree that celibacy isn’t dogmatic in the church but it’s not as simple as you may think. Most married priests aren’t in favor of removing the vow of celibacy, and most of the ones I’ve heard of agree with their wives to abstain from sex after their ordination.
@@louisrharmony It didn't say getting rid of it would be simple, I said keeping it is a mistake. A few more points: 1) since when are priests' opinions on what the church should or shouldn't do relevant? This ain't a democracy. 2) what married couples decide to do with their sex lives is non of my business, and irrelevant to the point. 3) I do want to make sure I'm clear here: I'm not advocating releasing anyone from any current vows of celibacy, but I am advocating for the church not to impose such vows on any future priests. Just in case that wasn't clear.
@@rmdodsonbills I heard some days ago that the Pope spoke against mandatory celibacy in the priesthood
Some remarks about the Greek Catholic churches in the lands of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
So in 1596 after the Union of Brest the Ruthenian Uniate Church was formed and it became widely spread among the population of former Lithuania. Though the Church had its subdivision into eparchies, neither they were considered as separate churches nor they altogether were considered as Ukrainian GCC (as you noted on the chart (2:07)). Today's Ukrainian GCC and Belarusian GCC are mere descendants of that Uniate Church though there was no offisial breakup: circumstances developed in such way that after the opportunity to practice Uniatism appeared in the former Russian Empire again, the Ukrainian and Belarusian churches were restored separately (plus part of Ukrainian lands on the West didn't get into the Russian Empire after the Partititions and Greek Catholicism wasn't banned there).
Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, on the other hand, developed separately afther the other Union (and in the other country) and is marked on your chart correctly
I was not raised religiously, I came to Christ about 12 years ago. I know what I believe and I know how our church is run. I don't know what about it makes it uniquely "baptist". I'm looking forward to episode 4
I'm hoping the Quakers / Society of Friends will be included in the next video too. However, I think you're going to need a LOT of little boxes by the time we arrive at the foot of this chart.
90% of comments: "You totally missed {insert small Protestant group that I know about} and you absolutely should've mentioned the Scots-Nebraskan Unified Anglican Holy Church of Everything in Australia and the Congo!"
So true!
I'd love to see that Anabaptist video on the Amish and Menonnite sects. I live in Ohio's Amish country and only know them by their surnames. Obviously there is the old order and such, but I am friends with many of the Troyer clan and Fredericktown clan, but have spoken with some very old school Swartzentrubers and Elkharts.
I'm not gonna lie, I screamed when I saw Church of Uganda, not because I'm Anglican, but very UGANDAN. Thank you for these videos
Great video. Now you talk about the Old Believers, there are actually varipus groups that reject the Nikon reform: the "Bezpopovtsy" and the "Raskolniks" or "Popovsty". Is a complex movement, but also some of them born from them, like the Dukhobors (spiritual warriors) or Molokans (milk-drinkers) who are similar to some practices of the protestant reformation in Russia. Now most of them live in Russia, the Caucasus and America. Other interesting sects are the Khlysty and the Postniki, the New and the Old Israel. Also there exist the Dry baptists, that come fron the Molokans and the Sons of Freedom that come from the Dukhobors. Finally, there exist some groups like the "Iconoclasts" (yes, like in the East Roman Empire) called Ikonoborsty and the "Judaizers" or the "Shalaputs" who profound in the judaism rotts of christianity. Other one can be the Dukh Zizhniki, but is even smaller. Some of this groups even merged with protestant churches in the USA or Canada, like the anabaptist. Another interestint group could be the Skoptsy, a sect that tries to destroy lust by castration or the mastectony of their followers.
Some of these groups have an ethnical background (for example, the Molokans drink milk during fasting like the Nestorian Mongols that lived in Russia) and also religious characteristics, like not having an organized clergy, the importance of spiritualism or the abscense of icons. Also, some of them are pacifist like the Quakers. All of them can be under the term "Spiritual Christians", but their origins are quite diverse and their influences are different. Could be the orthodox protestants.
Awesome comment!
What about the Iglesia Filipina Independiente (Philippine Independent Church)?
Can you please make a video chart on history of christians in India and their divisions?
Nice comprehensive video indeed! When mentioning Moravian Church, are you also planning to include the current Czech protestant churches (doing in 1918-1920 the same joint as the German protestant churches later on) or is it under your intended resolution? There's quite a funny history about the Toleration Patent issued by Joseph II. in 1781 and its consequences, as well as what happened after WWI and the Austro-Hungarian Empire breakup.
Love the series, and looked forward to this episode. Though both the Faroese and Icelandic churches that separated from the Danish aren’t included, as well as the Finnish church that split from the Swedish church
Thank you so much! I really like this series.
For the reformed section, i think you could add more branch churches in dutch colonies. Such in Indonesia, there are a lot of separated churches based on ethno-linguistic groups, althought they're majority registered in workd reformed communion
Agreed. My wife is from a Calvinist family in the Netherlands. I don't know all the ins-and-outs, but I'm pretty sure there's more, and probably significant, detail which could be added, even within the Netherlands. Really enjoying this series, btw NB Looks like he's added something in the next video, but didn't mention it in his intro.
Thank you lord matt
9:57 As a member of the ELCA, thank you for including the history of my people in this wonderful video!😇
I was 9 when the merger happened in 1988; my home church was LCA before that. After what happened in Germany during WWII, ELCA churches now are VERY CAREFUL to NOT get involved in politics, to the point of not even using patriotic music during services.
@@augiegirl1 I mean, both the church I grew up in and the church I attend now (both ELCA) play patriotic music (mostly around Fourth of July & 9/11), so I think it just varies from congregation to congregation.
@@patrickblanchette4337
I should rephrase: there are some patriotic HYMNS in the hymnal that are played at services, like “My Country, T’is of Thee”, “Faith of our Fathers”, & “Battle Hymn of the Republic”. Any general patriotic songs, like “Yankee Doodle Dandy”, or The Armed Forces Medley, are what they avoid.
I like how united the reformed churches in the Netherlands seem in this presentation
What a great video, thank you!
As a Wisconsinite, I was surprised to hear you mention the WI Synod. You were quire spot on saying they are more conservative than the Missouri. Thanks-
guess 340k is large enough to get a comment, but still not make the chart.
Right. It was awesome to get the shout out, but it would be cool to have made the chart. While we might not be the biggest, we are pretty wide spread across the US, especially when considering the Midwest. I'm curious to the percentage of US residents that are part of the WELS, but the fact that you can't throw a stone in Milwaukee without hitting a WELS church or school, I feel, shows it's number, even if many of those churches may be under the 300 communicant mark
I’m LCMS myself, but if was forced to choose to become WELS or ELCA I’d choose WELS any day
I think it ought to be noted that, while New England was once dominated by congregationalism, Colonial America was always much more religiously diverse than the rest of the British Empire. New York alone had 14 houses of worship representing 11 Christian denominations, plus Judaism, with much the same in Pennsylvania. Unitarianism was rapidly eclipsing Congregationalism in New England by the time of independence; Huguenots were in basically every coastal city, Maryland was mostly Catholic, Baptists were just all over the place; there were Jewish communities in New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island (until independence), Virginia (after independence), South Carolina, and Georgia; and even a scattering of Muslims.
Yup. Next video will pivot towards America and it's gonna get crazy!
I enjoyed this video alot. You did a good job with the Lutherans. I tip my hat to you.
Hi Matt, great video as always. A pair of points i think worth adding to the final chart. Ulrich Zwingly was a contemporary of Luther's based in Zurich, and with him the reformation began in Switzerland, earlier than just with Calvin in the West. Also the Presbyterian church exists in both Australia and New Zealand too.
I think one reason why there's a lot of breakaways every now and then with these churches is the way people perceive this Truth when there is only One Truth. We are probably just learning to grasp this on our own emphasis so that each individual will be able to understand what it meant. This is really an amazing chart because it allows you to look st the whole. It makes me realize that there's a lot of churches out there serves different purposes and goals and visions but all serves one mission and that is to spread the Word. Now people will continue to grow and do some other type of churches out there (probably) but the one who survives till the end will inherit life (eternal).
Amazing content! Can you include more lutheran churches? There are a lot of them in the world.
Always great videos. Thank you for all your hard work.
Would like to point out the church in Wales and the Scottish episcopal Church should be added to the anglicanism
Love your lectures and charts. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I'm curious to see if you address Unitarians and Universalists.
I am not sure if this in the upcoming episode, but in Canada, Methodist’s have had a huge impact on our history/culture especially in Ontario. They all joined with others in the 1920’s into the United Church…..now the fastest shrinking church in Canada.
It seems that Methodists have not been good with (a) retention of children in the faith, possibly due to economic factors and smaller families, and (b) having a evangelising program, which both the Anglicans and The Pentecostal churches have argueably taken over , Anglicans as a "establishment evangelism"- church funded/governed schools and the church as the parish hatch match and despatch role, and the Pentecostal (or style) churches in the be-living faith systems.
Yup, as a Canadian myself, I definitely have to include the United Church! I'll probably reach them in episode 5.
As a member of the church of Iceland, I was looking forward to seeing it on the tree. I do believe it should fall under Lutheran denominations but it wasn’t there. It would be very much appreciated if you were to add it to the tree.
The situation in the Netherlands is a bit more detailed, but is also difficult to translate.
The problem is that we have two words for reformed: hervormd and gereformeerd.
So although it is true that the Dutch reformed Church (Nederlands Hervormde kerk) merged into the Protestant Church in the Netherlands, there still exists a small group whose name also translates to the Dutch reformed church, namely the Nederlands gereformeerde kerk.
This church is one of several that have emerged from various splits from the original Dutch reformed Church and its descendants.
Just one thing that i noticed that is missing. In 1809 "Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland" split from swedish one due to annexation of finland. Not that this is too important but just one detail that could be added.
im an anabaptists and im really excited for the next episode… i hope you can get it right… ☺️ shout out to Mennonite World Conference please 😄
In Australia there was a split last year with the Anglican Church. A knew conservative branch called the diesis of the Southern cross
Well the Australian Anglicans have unofficial High Church (robes, incense, partly Catholic theology like reverence for saints) and Low Church (mainstream Protestant) branches. Within each of those, there are conservative and liberal groups. While I'm not religious, I find the different approaches interesting and I know people who are liberal low church, conservative low church and conservative high church. It's the conservative low church who are the separatists, the other groups seem to be able to work together despite their differing beliefs.
looks like they're part of GAFCON
21:27 thank you so much for mentioning the Protestant state churches in the Colonies. That is one of my favorite tidbits of American history
HEY MATT: Can you make a UsefulChart on the Wireless Telecommunication Industry? Such as the genealogy of Verizon Wireless, AT&T, T-Mobile, and more?
Thank you to all who worked on this excellent document:
Chart & Narration by Matt Baker
Animation by Syawish Rehman
Audio editing by Ali Shahwaiz
I hope the Transylvanian and Hungarian Unitarian (anti-Trinitarian) Church will be mentioned in the next episode as well as the name of Miguel Servet and Ferenc Dávid among others.
So cool to hear about the Waldensians. My dad is from Valdese, NC which was founded by Waldensian immigrants from Italy.
Again, quite interesting. :)
Perhaps you could also include the Cathars/Albigensians? I don't know if they qualify as Proto-Protestants, but I think they deserve a mention in the overall chart because of their unique ideas and their bloody repression by Rome. After all, the Inquisition was pretty much created because of them.
I think he already talked about them
I reawatched his videos to be sure, and you were right, he hasn't mentioned the Cathars. Although, I wouldn't consider them proto-protestant, more like neo-gnostic.
@@MrWaterlionmonkey
I've always considered the Cathars nothing more than a death cult.
@@shanebrown2009 I think that's an insane view. What made them a death cult? Anything I've ever seen on them says they favoured pacifism, piety, simple living and Christian teaching. And this is even from the Catholics who butchered most of them and the very few documents written by cathars themselves. 'Death cult'? What a strange thing to say. The main issue the Catholics had with it was its Gnostic teaching; that there are 2 gods. The wicked god of the old testament, who made matter, and the good god of the new testament that made spirit. This is really the only issue the Catholics had. There is more research on this topic where I heard that modern historians even doubt the cathars were real at the time. And that Catholic torture of 'cathars' and leading questions forced a few to 'admit' that they were Gnostics.
You could add the Bogomils in the Balkans and the Vaudois in Italy and south-east of France
Really enjoying this series. I want to suggest an edit. Under the Presbyterian denomination, you mentioned various others that were not on the chart. My denomination, Cumberland Presbyterian is actually it's own denomination. We split from the Presbyterians in 1810 over theological differences (the main ones centering around our belief in free will as opposed to the Presbyterian belief of predestination) and formed our own denomination. For the next 100 years, we grew at an amazing rate, outpacing most other denominations in the US, and eventually amassing many dozen universities and a multitude of congregations. In the early 1900's, the Presbyterians, having come around to our way of theological thinking, wished to merge back with our successful denomination. Some in the Cumberland Presbyterian church were for a merger, while others were against it. Eventually, through several years of litigation, the Presbyterian church absorbed most of the Cumberland churches back. The remaining remnant of holdouts form what is still today the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination, about 60,000 strong, mostly in the southern US, but many all over the world. Thank you for your entertaining and useful channel, and for considering my edit.
usefulCharts, I reckon that you forgot to mention on your previous video the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church, which was created by an excommunicated Roman catholic.
I’m a conservative Anglican in New Zealand. Here we have split and formed the CCAANZ, which is part of the FCA. We have our own bishop
Fascinating video but you either missed an important denomination in the US or you plan to include it later. The denomination is the Reformed Church in America (RCA) which claims to be the oldest Protestant denomination in the US going back to the explorations of Henry Hudson and the founding the New York City, then New Amsterdam. The Christian Reformed Church is a break away denomination. The RCA, previously called the Dutch Reformed Church in America, was actually involved in the founding of Queens College, now Rutgers University. The RCA has congregations in NY primarily along the Hudson Valley and northern NJ, as well as throughout Michigan, Iowa and Illinois. Congregations in the midwest adhere more strongly to their Dutch heritage and tend to be more conservative than in the northeast. this is due to separate migrations of Dutch in the mid 19th century to the midwest as opposed to earlier migrations of Dutch to the east coast around NY/NJ. The RCA has 2 seminaries, the older one, New Brunswick Theological Seminary, in New Brunswick, NJ, purports to be the oldest seminary in the US. And, yes, I grew up in the RCA but no longer affiliate as I have come to see myself as a pretty strong agnostic yet retain a strong sentiment for the denomination and its history. Thanks.
A notable former RCA congregation is the Shepherd's Grove church of The Hour of Power fame, now a PCUSA congregation.
I'm not a Christian and idk a lot about Christianity but I'm pretty certain that there exists an Anglican church in India.
So i studied in a school that called itself protestant. It's under the diocese of Calcutta in st. Paul's cathedral which I believe is Anglican (?) And as far as my understanding goes, it is related to the church of north India and the church of England.
Another good video! However, I do have a couple criticisms. Then I will also like to put my biases foward. I am a member of the Episcopal Church and a firm believer in Branch Theory as put forth by the Tractarians during the Oxford Movement in the 1830s. Now to the body of this. I wouldn’t put the Anglican Church under the umbrella of Protestant. I would argue that it is part of an older branch of distinctly English Christianity. Supposedly, Christianity was first brought to the British Isles by St. Joseph of Arimathea in the first century. Then by the fourth century Christianity was very prevalent within modern day England. Then in 595, Pope Gregory chose St. Augustine of Canterbury to convert the Anglo-Saxon King, Æthelberht. With his conversion, the English Church was then brought under Papal authority. With this also, the king controlling Canterbury, then the King of Kent, could appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury. Then comes Henry VIII. I would say that, he wasn’t wanting to break from Papal authority merely for an annulment (not a divorce), but rather his piety, thinking God cursed him for, what he believed was a violation of God’s Law, by marrying his brother’s widow. Then the Pope doesn’t let him have an annulment, for what can be assumed were political motivations due to the connection with the connection with the Spanish crown. Then with the influence of Thomas Cranmer, he asserts the doctrine of caeseropapism, as seen in the early church in the Eastern Roman Empire, and then reasserting the independence of the ancient Church in England. And it wasn’t until after Henry’s death and the accession of King Edward, that the church took a Reformed turn. Then the Church of England came back under Papal control with Mary I. However, we split the last time with Good Queen Bess and the church became less Reformed with the Elizabethan Settlement. Then, my second criticism is showing the Episcopal Church coming directly out of the Church of England, I believe it should be shown as descending of the Church of England and the Scottish Episcopal Church. Our first Bishops, namely our first presiding bishop, Samuel Seabury, were ordained by bishops of the Scottish Episcopal Church, since they did not have to take an oath to the Crown. I can get into the weeds about this, however as this is a TH-cam comment section I’ll leave it at this for now. I can discuss this more or provide resources for anyone interested.
It's probably best not to listen to this because branch theory is well known Anglo-Catholic cope. Anglicanism is absolutely Protestant and all of our defining documents are Protestant.
"Then with the influence of Thomas Cranmer..."
Who, might I add, was undoubtedly a Protestant and had already become a Protestant through contact with the continental reformers.
@@ArdensSedVirens1 I’m not denying our reformation heritage. In fact, it is one of our defining features. However, I think calling ourselves Protestant is a little silly, due to the uniqueness of the English Reformation and the history of the English Church. I think a better descriptor would be Reformed Catholic, more so than anything. In fact, we are the via media between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism.
@@samuelspicer7468 Well no, it isn't silly precisely because of our Reformational heritage. Nothing you have wrote has given me the impression that England is unique, investiture was famously controversial in the Middle Ages.
"In fact, we are the via media between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism."
Only according to the Oxford Movement. When the Anglican divines used language of a 'middle way' they meant a middle way between the Reformed and the Lutherans, not Protestantism at large and Papism. It is unsurprising, due to this language of 'Via Media' being used now, that many Anglo-Catholics will just end up swimming the Tiber and becoming Papists.
There is no reason to actually listen to this. These videos are meant to provide information about the *actual* historical reasons behind why schisms and church independences occurred, not about the traditions that each individual church has to explain their own origins and to dismiss their opponents as heretics and what not. And since the channel so far has avoided doing this for the other denominations so far, it would be extremely unfair for yours to get that privilege. Frankly, it makes no sense.
@@ArdensSedVirens1 First off, I would like to say that I hope this makes sense and doesn’t come across as a mess of points. Now to the point. I’m well aware of the original connotation, however as our church grew, our practices have changed to become more like Medieval Christianity. With the Oxford Movement, getting back to pre-Reformation practices (I.e. wearing of vestments and centrality of the Eucharist) were important and largely adopted by the church over the next hundred years. With Branch Theory also, we also recognize Scandinavian Lutherans and Moravians for keeping that key institutional part of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, being the Episcopacy, as being part of the True Church. Alongside a higher view of the Sacraments and sacramental theology. On top of that, the English Church has spent more time outside of Papal control than it has inside it. For the first 600 years it was independent, until St. Augustine of Canterbury, and then breaking with the highly corrupt Papists in the 1530s. So, what I’m trying to say is that, although we differ in doctrine (I would argue rightfully so), but in large part because we have conserved the institutional aspect of the Church we are not entirely Protestant. Now that being said. I’m not disputing the Reformational part of our heritage as being irrelevant. What I am saying is that our church, the Anglican Church, is a church with ancient roots, that although it broke away from Roman Catholicism during the English Reformation, doesn’t put it on par with Calvinism when it comes to historical legitimacy. I guess that might be where we differ. I think having that historical lineage tracing back to the Apostles via our bishops is important and highly relevant to our practice. Like I said before, we are Reformed Catholics, an ancient historical church that took on a flavor of Reformed Christianity in the 1500s.
Great series! Very excited to see the finalized chart when we get there
Fantastic video, as a Russian Orthodox, sometimes the entire reformed and anglican tree seems so distant and foreign. This truly helps me understand the differences
There’s no coherence to what they did because they lack the sacraments and lack validly ordained priests. The great source of Satan’s influence over the West came from the doors their rebellion opened
I'm used to Lutheran, Huguenots, and Swiss Anabaptist (Pennsylvania Dutch) here in America. Swiss Anabaptist was formed in 1523.
Yeah.
Some of my Pennsylvania family were Huguenots that ended up with German Lutherans.
I feel like that for most of the churches in the US - there are splits solely based on political ideologies...
One of the Catholics that seem to be overlooked in this chart is the Old Catholics. They retained their Catholic heritage during Reformation. They are separate from Rome yet recognized by Rome. From the Old Catholics come many, "independent' Catholic churches in the US.
They were discussed in the previous episode.
I would also add the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Iceland, which I understand was founded in 1537. Also Reykjavik cathedral is just really cool
I believe that this would sit next to the other Nordic churches, Wikipedia says that it separated from the Church of Denmark, though reading around the matter, people seem to have different opinions on the extent of the Danish church’s influence
Schisms Galore: Ambitious Clergy Getting a Piece of the Action.
You need to include the Lollards on this chart. The influences on Hus were big. Any underground Lollards would have become part of the Protestant movement when Henry VIII decided that he didn’t want to be buddies with the pope anymore.