The Struggle is Real ⛵️ Ep31 - Installing Insulation 3TC in Our Boat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2023
- LAHAKAI SAILING // ⛵️ S1 Ep31 // Join us as we navigate through some unexpected challenges in our boat restoration project's interior build. Despite a rocky start, we're making progress and installing new insulation to prepare our boat for the open sea. We opted for a different type of insulation than the standard ones, which has left us with some questions. In this episode, we share our experience and consult with engineers to ensure we're on the right track. With a few setbacks behind us, we're excited to move forward and continue our journey towards getting our boat back in the water.
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Love your videos. The one thing they have taught me is that metal boats are a lot of work!
Another suggestion: there will be no better time than now to organise an earth leak connection for lightning protection. It's quite surprising the number of boats that get struck by lightning and consequently lose aĺl their electrical equipment. A steel boat should be easy to protect. Remember that the earth wire is usually run down from the masthead directly to the earth terminal somewhere on the inner hull.
now take off all paint reweld …. Then reapply paint reweld braces . Paint add insulation….REMOVE all insulation move boat . Paint again!!! I’ll watch because she is so beautiful!!! Voice like an angel…
It's a dance really 😂🙃😂🙃 Thank you kindly 😇😁
I hate to say it mylar film is made with aluminum alloy, s😢orry guys. But you still may not have a galvanic reaction, because the aluminum is sealed inside of the foil polymer material, depending on mylar grade. Easiest way to find out, see if you can pass current through it with a 9-volt battery
Yep, reflective mylar is plastic film covered in aluminum. They have plenty paint layers on the hull though, so it should be okay anyways.
However making big mistakes is bad in general. I wish them all luck on building the boat, but they need to do deeper research before making decisions. They have dreams and fall sometimes in positive bias listening to some questionable people selling their products or services. It's not easy to avoid this...
Ben and MP are nearly ready to splash and you both are sort of just kicking off. Bon noiche. ❤❤❤
Perfection needs time
Truly magnificent progress on the interior of Lahakai, with finishing the hard to reach paint and your describing the properties of mylar, we were not only impressed with your efforts yet captivated by the music which accompanied this trilling episode. The craftsmanship and attention to detail while installing your flexible conduit hose was marvelous, the precision and technique far superior than that seen on factory builds. We are constantly impressed with the knowledge you both present on these video's and can't wait for future episodes to enlighten us on the proper finishing of a steel hull. Again, thank you both for sharing this exciting project.
Looks like a spaceship on the inside now :D
If the outdoor temperature is lower than 0 degrees Celsius, any glue you use will not work, and it will cause bulges due to condensation.
There is no problem with wooden structure buildings because there is a waterproof and breathable membrane on the outside of the building.
For steel hulls, the best way to insulate heat is the same as cold storage and mobile refrigerated containers.
Big improvement in videography, guys! Love to hear what Luke (Luca?) might have to say, even in Portuguese!
Love to see your progres will be helpful now when I working to be able to makemy long lost dream of living on a boat realagain. Be safe and skilful. Pinge
Wow!!! Your boat is coming along great:) if you keep doing the wonderful work your doing I do believe this boat will be a better built boat than when it was first built new. Just keep it up and don’t give up because one day you will be living your dream. You both are definitely headed in the right direction. Cheers👍
You guys are awesome. You are putting your world together in small pieces. The people who create are great. I keep my fingers crossed for you.
Awe thanks so much!! 😊 It's like an enormous life size puzzle! Love the support, cheers!!
May God bless you all in the name of Jesus Christ Amen.
From 00:00 secs to 00:50 seconds.I see a big gap between the bottom steel plate and the keel/ frame. Ideally there should be no gaps between the bottom steel plate and the keel/frame. You won't notice anything now, but when you're in rough sea conditions this gap could bend or crack and cause water ingress. A boats/ships hull, frame should be packed tight with no gaps.
You two will build a great boat all the best
Wow that electric is gonna need someone that knows where and what to do. Goodluck you guys are showing progress.
Mylar is actually a brand name for a polyester (PET) same plastic as a soda bottle that is heated and the stretched onto a roller into a thin film that is then aluminumized with real aluminum through a chemical vapor deposition process and you can also get Mylar with gold to that is what they use on space craft and satellites a lot of times for its reflectiveness. You wont have to worry about dissimilar metal corrosion in your application though the aluminum is on the inside of the PET plastic in a very thin film and plus you have painted your steel so nothing to worry about there. Interestingly a lot of steel boats use aluminum for their superstructures wheelhouses and anything high up on the vessel due to its lighter weight allows the center of gravity to be kept lower but they use a specially designed explosively bonded strip that is steel on one side and aluminum on the other with another metal explosively bonded inbetween to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion these strips allow you to simply weld aluminum to steel without any fuss.
You have some tricky decisions. I was looking at a (‘north pacific’)boat built in China and they were proud to point out that the wiring and plumbing was installed after the interior. This meant it was all accessible. Not a bad idea! You might consider that .
Also you will be adding wiring later. Things change , new tech need new wiring ( example starlink was not around when you originally started this rebuild).
You need wiring chase way that can be accessed later.
What does the interior builder suggest?
In the long run you might be better waiting.
Cheers Warren
We were considering this! And when we asked Mobili Mare how we could proceed, they said they will build around anything we make 😅 so we are putting in conduits where we think the furniture will be covering up. You can see our super highway of conduits in our video today! Let us know what you think about our solution.
step by step you're getting there. Am eager to see what your interior design looks like. Keep it up!
One good step has been taken, now onto the next one..☺👏👏
Nice to see you are able to move on now coming along nicely
You remodel boats the same way I do lol. It's called Everything must be as good as it can be. The extra coats of RedHand will pay off Big Time.
I know lots of boatbuilders. They would sneer at me if I said I was one. Because boatbuilding is a trade that must make money, and the most prolific boatbuilders are the ones who git 'er done. Out the door, no frilly time consuming details and no time-consuming, money sucking "back to square one".
But it's really a matter of Life or Death. I mean, off soundings things can go south in a hurry if steps were skipped in the build. You need to trust Her with your lives.
She is reveling in the new life that you're giving her, she seems capable of anything now.
We do try to get it right, as this is one big learning process! Once we learn something new we try to implement it as best possible. If left to me, Lori, we'd end up redoing too many things because I'm a perfectionist 😅 Luke knows better went to move on to the next step and call it a day. We totally agree with you - you have to have confidence that the job is done well enough to live with. It's not just a boat, it will be our home! Cheers!
Moringa oil; should remove that stuff out of your hair give time for your hair to ingest it into the cuticles…then brush it out.
After watching you scratching your heads . I recommend you invest in the help of a naval architect and get a complete set of design drawing ( incl all interior furnishings , utilities , rigging , tankage , etc ) . Building without a set of plans is like sailing without a rudder . You end up going around in circles .
Take a look at low pressure forced ventilation … it uses a low pressure/ speed fan at one point on the hull it will quietly and cheaply force stale wet warm air out of the hull through the vents and any cracks or non air tight hatches. The only things you really need to know are to use a mushroom vent and electric fans are are designed to run either horizontally or vertically.. use the wrong type and they won’t last and start getting noisy.
Radiant barriers that aren’t facing an air space don’t work. If it’s sandwiched between a layer of sand and a concrete slab, it’s a conductor, not an insulator.
Hi guys, being a "pro" when it comes to insulation (designing and building commercial refrigeration equipment for a global acting company with (also) a production facility in Navegantes ;-) i've never heard of the product you're using before. We always and only are using polyurethan foam, so my solution in your case would have been sprayfoam. But after your explanations in this video i'm pretty confident that your product will do it's job - at least for several years. Sealing the edges of each panel like you, Laurie, have done it is the key to sucess, but (there's always a "but") the ribs in your boathull will be the problem looking at it for the long term. The ribs will bring the outside temperature (no matter if it will be hotter or cooler than the inside temperature) passing through your insulation right into the boat. That's where the corrosion will start to occure. So, my proposal (to a situation you can not change) would be: before you attach any wood (bulkheads, cabinetry etc.) directly to these ribs insulate these contact areas with something that will not rot (strips of 3 mm ABS or another plastic material will do the job) AND take care of natural VENTILATION ! ! ! From the cold bilge to the hot deck surface there MUST be natural air convection possible behind all walls, covers and cabinetry ! If it is this will dry out every moisture buildup in hidden corners and behind your cabinetry and you will have fun with your project-boat for many years ! Good luck, happy travels and best regards from Berlin, Germany
Hello! It's very nice to hear your opinion on this. Since it is a product not commonly used in boats yet, we did have our doubts and can see it as a bit experimental. But the costs and easy application, while also making it extremely easy to remove the panels and check the hull after made us want to take the risk.
For the ribs we will insulate the sides of the ribs. We are still making our way through the hull. Then we will swing back to the little details with the scrap pieces. Also, we don't know how the framing for the wood will be installed yet so that might effect where the insulation goes.
From what we understand, you are recommending also insulating on top of the rib where it will be in contact with wood with a thin material? The wood would need to be supplemented in this instance?
Love the feedback! Do let us know more about this detail, we are very curious. Thanks!
@@lahakai Lori, simply bedding whatever is attached to the steel is imho the Best way to isolate. Ok I am opinionated bc what works for me is Boatlife Lifecaulk or Sudbury Elastomeric sealant. Their "penetrating" marine sealant is same thing only thinner, iow, worlds best single part contact cement, which is what I use to get the mylar tape or the 3m pad straps to glue down better (longer). I don't personally use butyl tape unless I'm installing something like workboat windows bc I think it cold flows when it needs to stay put.
So I am recommending the Sudbury Elastomeric sealant in both the thick and thin types, and the Boatlife Lifecaulk in Black, bc white is shorter lived when exposed to sunlight. Both of these caulks are EXCELLENT insulators when it comes time to bed thru hulls etc. Lifecaulk is the bomb for hard -or-soft wood assemblies. The Best thing about them vs Sika or 52billion is You Can Take Them Apart when the time comes, which it Always does.
Thanks you guys.
@@lahakai The wood can be wood, no need to supplement it in that areas. But the points, where the wood is mounted to the rips for support/structural purposes, on these contact points the direct contact between the wood and the "sweating" metal rips poking through your insulation has to be avoided. This "insulation" (or just call it a distance) on that particular contact/mounting points between wood and your metal rips is supposed to be hard and sturdy. It just has to be a small distance (3 mm is enough) bridged by any hard plastic (f.e. ABS or similar). Think about a small "washer" made out of hard plastic, a feature Mobili Mare can easily provide and add into their CAD/manufacturing prozess. Just to make sure no wood has direct contact with the "sweating" rips. Good luck !
Great work, but I still think the insulation is too thin.
The water is not always warm and that thin insulation will not insulate enough. Water transports heat and cold much better than air. There's a reason why there is thicker insulation. You have space for thicker, so why not?
The heat insulation material is attached to the bulkhead of the ship, and the bottom of the ship is mainly heat conduction. This is when the thermal conductivity of the insulation material is most important.
heat conduction and heat radiation are completely different concepts
Very nice work you doing both. I have used little magnets for my isolation and woodwork then i can always pull it of for other work in the future and it is cheap, Think about that in your other projects. Good luck with your dream....💋💋💋❤🧡✌🙏
Oh that is a good idea. We were wondering if we could use magnets for our curtains so we don't have to use rods and have them hanging crazy all over the cabin. Thanks for the suggestion, keep em comin! Cheers!
Nice progress
I was surprised that bronze thru-hulls were your choice over composite. (For your application)
If you put wires or cross the frame the screws that will puncture it when you put your deck down.
you missed spots in number 5 baffle and number 3 sorry bad old mans joke looks great what you guys are doing. thanks for the update and have a wonderful week ahead
We probably missed a lot more than that! 😂😂 Thanks so much and see you next Sunday!
The designer of my steel boat used steel frame and panel bulkheads to make the hull rigid, not plywood, which is lighter, and space-saving. The builders however, used plywood, so after years of service, the bottoms of the bulkheads were rotten. Since you painted the interior steel already, Can I assume you are using plywood bulkheads? Does your marine architect think the hull frame is sufficiently rigid using plywood bulkheads bolted to the ribs?
For the wood interior we are working with Mobili Mare so we are not sure how the process will go just yet. But we’ll be showing you every detail when we start! We do know that they will use marine grade plywood. Hopefully we’ll be getting to that part soon so stay tuned!
👍👍👍✨️
Looks great, however only Duka knows how to pronounce Sikaflex. I use a small mirror to paint hidden corners, saves on hair paint. As a guy my neck does not bend like a lady's.
Ahhhhh a mirror!!! Never thought of that! Really clever! We still have to do the cockpit so we'll do that there. Thanks!!
Looks nice with the aluminum foil.
😂🤣🙌👏
Was joking!
We got you! 😂😂 it was great comedic timing
You are going to want to insulate those ribs in contact with the hull. They are going to act like heat plate radiator fins, kind of same idea as what you see on a chainsaw engine head to get rid of heat
Yes, thanks for mentioning that! We will! We're still making our way around the hull then will go back to the ribs. Though it's easy to install, its a bit time consuming because of the taping. Cheers!
In my ambo conversion and my tiny house, electrical wiring will be done last, running through paintable or disguised exposed conduit. I have seen too many times on sailing videos and van life videos someone trying to add a new electrical component and squeezing themselves into tiny spots and experiencing a lot of frustration. Why not have electrical run where you can easily access it or easily run new lines? Some people say they think it looks cleaner but if you incorporate it onto the outside of the interior build before hand it should not even be noticed.
I only mention this for future reference if you find yourself doing another job like this in the future :
You can save yourself time and money by laying down the Sikaflex or whatever in an X pattern directly onto the surfaces to be stuck to. This way you'll use substantially less glue since corner to corner, that is diagonally, is a much shorter distance while still being a strong attachment pattern.
Ah this is a good tip! There was not much method to our madness here. We'll do the x moving forward! Cheers
@@lahakai Just like the framing, caulking beads can trap water. Always caulk in a way that allows water to drain out the bottom. Attaching panels like these, I caulk the perimeter (visible) after they're in place, leaving the bottom edge free to vent.
Thanks
@@martyspargur5281 That's a good point as well! We did realize this and start doing it in vertical stripes incase moisture would drip down. We will keep this in mind for the rest of the panels. Thanks!!
Please consider that the caulking does not necessarily need to be super high-end for every job. But cheap hardware store caulk can be a waste of time and money.
GOOD hardware store caulk can work well. Laying a bead along the edges of those panels (beads which like welding beads can be "intermittent" or "continous"), i have used a non-marine elastic adhesive caulk called Big Stretch with great results.
As far as regular hardware store caulk goes, some can be overkill (hard to apply), and some are too thin.
For me, most desirable after polyurethanes and elastomeric, would be non-silicones, like Elastic or acrylic, or polyether.
I don't use latex, and i pretty much bed Everything
Why are there gaps between the plating and the stringers?
I am just watching this new episode. The self stick support is a great idea but your boat is on the dry. But in the water, condensation won't unglue the self stick supports?
We were thinking about this as well! We haven't bought them yet but might attach them with sikaflex instead of the little sticker it has when we do.
Estive a ver vocês a por os tubos para passarem os cabos eléctricos dou a sugestão de deixarem uma guia para no futuro se quserem passar mais um cabo e mais fácil
I suggest that you make it a habit with every conduit to include a pull - thru string. Remember to attach a new string to whatever it is that you are pulling thru the conduit so that you can repeat if necessary!
We did a test run with a set of wires after the first conduit and having a guide would be essential. Even one wire got stuck in random places. Solid advice! Thanks!!
Ola Antonio, sim percebemos isso quando fomos passar o primeiro cabo e tivemos dificuldade. com certeza iremos deixar um guia passado para facilitar. Muito obrigada pela dica :)
How do you teach the mouse to pull the wires through the conduits?
It's a complicated process that involves lots of cheese 😅
Isn’t the framing going to be a heat bridge ?
Still working on it, that’s why you don’t see it here. We have the roof and cockpit to go. We are finishing up all the large blocks before heading back and hitting up the frames with the scraps. Then the wood will also act as another layer of insulation. Cheers!
Knew i should've payed closer attention in art class...why not do three or four blobs then roll it to keep the sikaflex to just a couple areas vs a perimeter?
😂😂 There was little method to this in the moment
heat transfer
1、heat conduction
2、heat convection
3、heat radiation
The material you are using is 93% blocking heat radiation 。
But close to the bulkhead of the ship, heat conduction is the main。
This material is also used in air-conditioning pipes, but the air-conditioning pipes are suspended and should not be in contact with other objects as much as possible.
Man I am going to watch every minute to learn how to do everything like a professional…. Not 😮I wish you two the best on your boat.
I wish everything humans ever made could be return to earth without damaging it. 😢
You make zero sense. Unless what you used too post your comment is made with materials that decompose naturally.it’s ok hypocrisy at its finest. Gold star to one that wishes others to do differently then one does. Look in he mirror can’t make stupid up as others show what stupid really is. God bless hall monitor grow up please.
See what happens when you don't hire me? I could've solved the wiring issue in 5 minutes. Just make a blind harness now, and splice in later.
Our bad! You're hired! When can you made it to Brazil?? 😜
@@lahakai As soon as I get a full time job. Oh, wait 🥺
@@lahakai As soon as I get a full time job. Oh, wait 🥺
Sorry, someone has given you some false information. The insulating material you're using is aluminized mylar. That's what makes it shiny. It's the aluminum that reflects 93-94% of the infrared energy, not the mylar. Also, if the surfaces of the aluminum from outside to inside touch, you've lost part of the battle as the heat will be transferred through that contact area. The aluminum needs to be isolated from front to back. That's how they build satellites for space, multiple layers of aluminum that are isolated between each other as one layer reflects 93-94% of the energy while the next layer reflects 93-94% of the escaped 6-7%, etc for each additional layer. It's the aluminum reflecting, not the mylar. The mylar gives the material water vapor resistance and strength. The hull's temp is transmitted due to touching the aluminized mylar.
I insulated my boat years ago but only used one layer of aluminized coating. It was a fiberglass boat so there wasn't any transmission of heat from the hull surface. It made the boat much warmer and quieter too. Being in Alaska, the temp upgrade was significant, especially during winter boating.
Last vid (Ep30), you advised 3TC is "polystyrene" with 2 sheets of "polymer", now, next vlog, not correcting the previous, your advising it's mylar (same thing) & styrofoam, plus also failed to mention the concerns in comments, responded to by yourself, regarding condensation between steel & insulation.
People watch these sailing channels for inspiration & education, be good if they receiving correct information, right? or at least redacted, corrected, addressed when finding out prior to publishing the vlog, so they don't make the same mistakes, potentially purchasing>installing, then find out next vlog, you must have been aware before publishing.
I only hope their not lemmings, & do their own research.
3TC is made of a patented Mylar that is made of polyethylene with a styrofoam core. This can be found on their website and these videos. This is a new product on the market here in Brazil and this installation is experimental. We have made no reviews of the product yet as the boat is still under construction. Note this video not sponsored as well - we are looking for alternate ways to insulate our steel boat while also keeping the surface available for repair and inspection and are trying a new technology. So we cannot speak to condensation or any performance of the product till it is tested in the water. Videos on this will be released when proper testing has been made.
@@lahakai Yes, but show me where you tell/warn viewers all that, including "possible negatives", like condensation, in "Ep30".
This weeks episode - this looks like a great seacock, watch me install, viewers go buy. Next week episode - seacock failed & my boat sank 😭 Too Late for viewers who buy last week 🙄