I'd say Disco Elysium does let you change your nature, what is unchangable is your past but you start the game mentally as a blank slate. All the different inner voices change depending on how you allocated your points, the stronger a 'skill' is the more you'll hear from it throughout the game. It's worth playing through more than once, you don't realise the amount of content you invisibly miss out on until you start making different choices.
I went from an intellectual run with Logic (Or encyclopedia, I don't remember which but it was one of the two) as my main characteristic, and another one recently with Savoir Faire and little to no Intellect. It was incredible how some of the interactions change and some are made completely impossible making you have to take a different approach on the matter.
I don't think you get to change Harrier's nature. But you can change his perspective. He will always be a depressed mess who shields himself on extremist beliefs (whichever those might be) in order to avoid his pain. But you can make him someone who has given up or someone who keeps trying, someone who obsesses over a way out or works for a way forward. Also, will he do any of those things while holding onto who he was or will he adopt an entirely new persona in the process?
@@KatwindA depressed apocalypse hobo Harry doing anything he can to move forward and keep going despite seeing nothing in humanity, organizing with communists and artists as a way of genuiely opening his eyes while simultaneously *_literally iust being to have more friends_* is about the only Harry I can see existing. He hates the world, despises what its put him through but he doesn't fold over, doesn't rampantly apologize but may *_just_* for Sylvie, it connects dots for Harry that just feels natural. ...now do a "racist jerk to kim, let him die in exhcange for Cuno" run just to see how that goes...
As a grown man this is the one game that can make me giggle consistently, the dialogue is just so clever, absurd and well written. And this is despite the story being so serious and heavy, the humour is on another level.
Disco Elysium is the only game that has made me cry, that ONE god damned phone call, I shouldn't have tried the pay phone over and over again. And the resolution to the insulidian phasmid quest.... simply profound. I need to play Disco Elysium again.
"Oh yes. This is real darkness. It's not death, or war, or child molestation. Real darkness has love for a face. The first death is in the heart, Harry. See you tomorrow."
Ok, I interpreted the Pale in a completely different way. In my playthrough I had a "dialogue" with a very special npc I'm not going to spoil (you now who I mean) and they clearly said the Pale is produced by human thought, which is different by other animals' thought. While animal only think about the here and now (maybe about the close past and future) humans constatly think about what does not exist: they think about what has happened, what could have happened, what they wish could happen, they create stories, ideologies, interpretations... We know that the pale cannot be directly observed and measured. However, it seems to contain some sort of information: radio signals can be modified (it is possible to receive signals which apparently come from the past or even from the future) and people who travel through the pain a lot may even start remembering memories that don't belong to them (like the old woman). One could even argue that all the information Harry can acces while unsing the skill "Encyclopedia" have the same origin (however they may be just memories he is slowly recovering) I think the Pale is the manifestation of human thought, expecially the kind of thought that is disconnected from reality. Animals have ideas, cognitive representations of object from the outside world, but they are in a 1:1 relationship. Humans, using the same sensorial input, can produce much more ideas, ideas that can even be about impossible things. I think the pale is the manifestation of these ideas, a "matterless thought".
@@wfogapgfahfnog35 When I wrote this comment I didn't know the book yet, and I didn't know all the magpie, futuresight and Pale stuff. In that book there are canon informations about the nature of the pale and you can feel free to ignore my comment.
This special npc you mention is actually not interacted with. HDB is interacting with it through Inland Empire, if I remember correctly. That means he’s using his imagination, not actually responding to the npcs communication. Just like when talking to a corpse, he’s talking to himself, hearing his own theories. Maybe 😅
@@raskaskoneisto Yeah, but if Harry truly is a Magpie he could actually get some extrasensorial perceptions... he may not be just delusional (however definetely the bug didn't speak... I think Harry had several premonitions and visions about the present and future during the game and his mind turn them into these very weird experiences).
I first played disco Elysium just the other day. I was having a difficult time and felt just like Harry did - struggling with addiction, being at my lowest in an unforgiving world. I was assigned sorry cop, and it honestly lead me to re-evaluate why I apologise to everyone in real life. Disco Elysium was beautiful.
@@OnyxDeath369 That moment was absolutely magical, that and getting a good ending where Kim approves and vouches for you and you get to go home a hero essentially feels great. Also, when you learn the significance of the title screen, it suddenly hits hard.
What makes that moment incredible is that before this your voices have worked together to help you, but this is the moment the voices sinc to create a single thought, showing this is the moment Harry got his shit together. Tbh I like the video but think a lot of the philosophy went over the video makers head, which while I think disco is the most philosophical game, it shows his point that accessibility is a crucial part of the philosophy
Not choosing an ideology is kinda the wrong way to play the game. The game doesn't want you to embrace the world as it is, it wants you to embody change. If you think things are shit in Revachol then who are you to say so if you don't care enough to want them to change. If you think Harry is in a bad place then make a choice. The game combines Harrys inner turmoil with his politics in an interesting way. By not picking you are picking the side of the moralists or whoever else are in power. Politics is the art of compromises. No political party is 100% going to represent your values. The game is going to tell you to pick your ideology, then hit you in the balls with it whilst laughing at you for daring to choose. If you dare to care for the direction things are headed you are still going to make a choice though whether in game or real life.
I was about to comment this myself, not choosing an ideology is one of the most scathing critiques that the game levels at Moralism/Centrism. Politics isn't a choice when everything is inherently political, including having the safety and privilege to not pick a side.
I'm not sure I would say that not choosing a side is the WRONG way to play. The game is going to make fun of you no matter what you choose. I like to think of None of the Above as Disco's fifth ideology. Choosing not to take a side IS a choice. And not only does it not accomplish anything, it doesn't even TRY to accomplish anything.
As a self-confessed sad sack I connected deeply with Harry on his fucked up journey through lives of the people of Martinaise, and had some serious moments of self-reflection and critique along the way. The game made me confront some uncomfortable truths about myself and my life, and even helped me make peace with some of them. I even managed to sort Harry out into a somewhat functional human being at the end of it all. One of the few games that I can truly say changed me as a person and I regularly return to the OST and my favorite quotes in times when I'm in need of inspiration or comforting nostalgia. I get the same feeling from this game as I do talking to a friend who has known me all my life - mocking my attempts at self-doubt and self-pity, and telling me the hard truths I need to hear not out of hate but because they know I can be better. Thank you for covering Disco Elysium, I definitely hope to see more content based around it in the future.
Same. I was in my personal lowest moment with alcoholism, and this game was the turning point. Harry's journey felt parallel to mine at that point of time.
_Disco Elysium_ is one of those rare gems that can be either hilarious, sad, or beautiful at different moments without it feeling unhinged or badly written. This game is phenomenal, it's a literary experience the likes of which you're only going to encounter a few times in your life.
I feel like I'm going through my own Disco Elysium these past few years. Something of a dark night of the soul. I wish you all the best on your own respective journeys through the swamp.
I always find it interesting that the only person amongst the normal folks doing well in revachol is the dice maker. Of all the things one could do as a profession she makes custom dice and game pieces.
Great timing. I'm a huge Planescape fan since 1999 and recently finished Disco Elysium 2 weeks ago. Both have been in my mind a lot recently. I appreciate your interpretation on how each game approached different answers to similar questions.
"The most immersive game I've ever played." This sums up Disco pretty well. The best way I've found to describe it, even though it's a really weird phrase, is "The book I've read that comes closest to communicating the feeling of being alive, that is also a game."
"Disco Elysium" exactly shows, that you can't avoid choosing when we're talking about politics. If you remain apolitical, then you just support status quo. In "DE" status quo is moralism. So when you choose not to choose, you choose moralism.
Please make a part two to this review. If this was the spoiler free section, please make a spoiler section. How games as an art form is able to influence people is the very reason I subscribe to this channel in the first place.
I definitely have to get back to this game! I played a decent amount and genuinely loved it, but the PS4 version at the time was kinda buggy, so I abandoned it at some point. What I think is pretty amazing, is how the different parts of your brain have different personalities and talk to you. That's such a cool idea!
Not only talk to you, but argue with each other and none of them tell you the whole story so you can be lead astray by putting too much trust on their views. Canonically if you have read the book DE is based on, Shivers has your ass covered the most but in game it's so prophetic it really isn't helping you too much to solve the on going case. :D
Watching this video was like seeing a flickering flame illuminate the path on my dark night of the soul. Currently suffering from some deep existential dread and struggling to hold onto a purpose. Thanks for kindling my hope
I have not watched this video yet, I'm one of the weirdos who reads comments first. Going through similar struggles. Needed to read this. Gives me hope for hope. All things are connected. Blessings to you friend.
Hope and faith are psychological mechanisms to deal with uncertainty of existence, they don't guarantee the outcome they only support in making an attempt.
I encourage you to find a creative outlet such as art, writing, music etc... At my lowest points I'll just pick up a pencil and just start to create, even if I don't want to or know what to create. Just start with a doodle (or equivalent for your medium) and you'll be surprised. When you come back to it, seeing something tangible that you created is at least something and may be an important reminder that you and the struggle in personal growth is worth it.
I succeeded a 3% roll on laying out Measurehead on my first try, which got erased because the Union Leader's uncomfortable chair gave me a heart attack & I didn't save. I dare anyone who hasn't played the game make sense of that statement.
I love the way you analyse and describe these games. This and Planescape give me a very particular feeling that in Welsh we have a word for but doesn’t translate well into English. The feelings these games have to me is something called “hiraeth”. It's a homesickness for the places from your past you can't return to or even those you've never been to. Hiraeth can also mean nostalgia for your past self, the people who are long gone, or the emotions you used to feel.
Wowowowow. Hardcore to the mega! Disco Elysium feels like the game from another world, it touched my soul and left me in deep melancholic state for a long time. Thanks for the video.
The moment at the end made me shed a literal tear it's really the best way to end the story of this game and it's kind of sad some people miss it on initial playthroughs
I still raise you Pathologic and Pathologic 2 as the most philosophical video game. :P They are games that show that your own perspective on the world affects greatly how you can interact with it. It puts you in situations where you are greatly rewarded for doing the morally grey or even cruel actions and shows viscerally how even people with the best intentions can be reduced to thieves and murderers.
I don't know if I would necessarily call them more philosophical than something like Disco Elysium or Planescape, but they definitely deserve a video of their own. Pathologic 2 was the most harrowing experience I ever got from a videogame, one that is going to live with me forever, and it's a game that should be definitely talked about more
@@Fbleh NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM. Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium TOP Philosophical video game is Pathologic, this is fact not opinion.
PSA!! Do NOT buy Planescape Torment on console!! Specifically Ps4! It is a buggy broken nightmare with zero attention given by the developers and you will not get a refund! Please do your on research and heed my warning! I spent $60 on that game, which thats A LOT of money to me, and all for nothing because it kept crashing and crashing. I hope I can save at least one of you from going through what I had to
I was seriously considering getting it. $60 is alot for me too especially on an old game that's a bundle deal when i only want one game. I appreciate the heads up.
So you experienced the game from your own perspective, rather than role-playing a character? You missed out, Disco Elysium is an extremely rare example of a studio actually trying to create a video game that contains RP.
i might challenge that slightly, as i took similar advice for my first playthrough. i statted harry to approximate my own self-image and did my best to make choices based on what i would say in real life, without the mask of being a protagonist. it was genuinely challenging on many fronts - both in maintaining my honesty and in defending my choices - and several times over i felt as though the game was psychoanalyzing me like nothing else ever has. when engaging through that lens, it’s a truly magical experience
Ok, I'm actually going to hold off on watching this video because I need to play DE for myself without spoilers. However I need to take this opportunity to put a bug in your ear about an old PS1 Japanese exclusive called Planet Laika. It's a crazy space opera about a character with multiple personalities who goes to Mars with dog-faced cosmonauts because Mars has a human face and Martians gave up their faces decades ago and are in a constant search to find themselves as a result. It's an 80's color explosion of existential jazz played through rusty instruments while a retired Slavic philosopher drones on about the meaning of self through a vodka-soaked miasma. But more than that, the spiritual and psychological angles will fascinate you. There's references to Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, and Nietzsche, Talmudic esoterica, a likely reference to the Rebis, and possibly false histories of Atlantis. Oh, and it was developed by the same folks who made Kowloon's Gate. No idea if you can make a video about it but the content alone should strike a chord with you based on your interests. There's an English translation available for it through uh... 'alternative digital acquisition methods'. Something that rhymes with BomNacking.Met.
max, since I've been following this channel I've repeatedly indicated 3 games in the comments, omori, disco elysium and outer wilds. I didn't expect that none of the three would win a video, but Omori and disco elysium were already crossed out of the list. So I'm waiting for the outer wilds video
I’m happy that you gave Disco Elysium a go. It’s one of those games that profoundly impacted me and thought of you when you made your Planescape video. I told myself that you would eventually make a video about since it holds a connection. Your analytical comparison is perfect. Cheers to you!
Thank you for this film essay Max. I bought Disco Elysium a few months ago, but haven't played it; however, now I am more than motivated to tackle the philosophical journey. It was nice to also see the comparisons drawn to Planescape.
I had the opportunity to play Planescape Torment when it came out and it's been my favorite game of that genre ever since. I had played it through several times, but not in the past few years. I picked up and played Torment Tides of Numenera when it came out, seeing as it was marketed as a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment. While I thought Numenera was a lot of fun, it wasn't until I played Disco Elysium that I found my personal successor to Planescape Torment. After beating Disco Elysium, I immediately started a new Planescape Torment game. Btw Max, you rock!
Thank you. I've been looking for a spoiler free video on why this game is special to share with my friends. I had a hard time getting into this game when I first got it on release because it's so wide open and so easy to fail. I tried again this last month and it clicked. It's provocative in all the right ways.
The two jewels in the crown, Disco Elysium and Planescape, both top quality games, what I find interesting is that they are in the same genre, and both take the genre to the top, sad to know that this game will not have a sequel, that it's just sad, at least they leave us this masterpiece, i really love these two games and the way they explore this profound concepts, and it's great to see them get more recognition, they really deserved it, you really did a great job covering this game.
What a fantastic video. What you said at the end is so true, and it was exactly what I felt playing. I have to say, I have not watched many of your videos, but all the ones I did were awesome. I was searching for an experience like the profound one I had with Disco Elysium, my favorite game, and I wasn't familiar with planescape torment, but I already got it and will dive into it. Keep up the great work, you're nailing it.
I was so hyped for this game but the characters were just so dull and uninteresting that I couldn’t continue. The fact that you have to speak to them for ten to fifteen minutes straight would be perfectly fine if I found their company engaging. Perhaps I’ll pick it up again in the future because I really don’t want to have this opinion.
Well... It was certainly 'written' now wasn't it... Everything I'm reading here just screams ignorant coddling. Go pick up some books if you want real philosophy
@@alexanderkorn4730man I've read philosophy and it's just nice to see so many ideas presented in this game with weight and comedy. No one is saying disco is a replacement for actual study and interest, it's just entertaining and thought provoking. No need to shame someone for enjoying it
What I love about this game is that it brilliantly showcases that you can truly change "reality" by what you believe about it, and how you chose to think and act on it. Everything that happens to you in the game feels "real" - even though it can't be, since you can believe completely different things and get vastly different outcomes and experiences by that, that still... fit into this world. The same objective reality can tell dozens of different stories, depending on the perspective you take. Just like in real life. This game made me question the true, and kind of absolute, power of our belief-systems and philosophies. It got me onto a quest to "creatively shape my reality, by carefully, and conciously chosing the most beneficial philosophy for the given moment and situation." It's an ongoing experiment, that thus far, has vastly improved every aspect of my life, and my overall happiness.
Just started my first run for Disco. I'm amazed by the depth of how much your thoughts effect you and the way you interact with your surroundings. Unlike most RPG, the choices you make really are transformative. It really is a great message on the importance of critical thinking.
I'v had Disco Elysium on my PC for a year now and just got the free time to play it. I started it yesterday and I know it'a just coincidence but having Max upload it at this exact point in time sure doesn't feel like it.
Great video again highlighting depth and breadth of philosophical ramifications in video games! Kudos Max! I remember having played PS: Torment on my new tablet in 2018 and will never ever forget the experience. Thank you very much for making your enthusiasm public and sharing the passion of playing philosophical games that make us wonder and pose essential questions. Having said that, I agree wholeheartedly. Disco Elysium and Planescape: Torment are both the most philosophical games ever made. For me personally, PS:Torment stands on its own. IMHO, it represents its own genre. To me, it left a much deeper impression than Disco Elysium, Talos Principle, Soma, Deus Ex... which are exceptional games in their own respect and which I enjoyed tremendously as well. But, well, Planescape: Torment IS unique. No way around that.
Honestly, it is absolutely shocking and beautiful that I came across this video whenever I did. Cause I’m currently struggling with a lotta things and concepts that are present in the game’s themes. Themes like self improvement and combating with one’s own nature, have been something very present in this current chapter of my life. It just seems like sometimes that so many people get great things thrust upon them, while I have had to tirelessly work and struggle to just live a somewhat “normal” life. While others get that thrust upon them, from the get go and I’m seemingly at such advantage so many times, where it seems like struggling through it all, may not be worth it, and that maybe I would just be better off either embracing the darker and more chaotic aspects of my personality, aka my Shadow, in Jungian terms, or just simply giving up all together and fall into the deep dark abyss of death. Even if I did go to hell, what difference would it make since I seemingly have suffered all my life so it would just be simply more of the same but, the pain would be less personal, so therefore it would hurt less. It would also be spiteful to God, as kinda an ultimate “screw you” for even allowing me to endure and live through such a painful existence in the first place, and being born into a position where I was seemingly forsaken at birth. However games and videos like this really actually let me rethink some of those worldviews and actually let me consider the fact that things might not turn out as badly as they seem, and ultimately they remind me that my struggling will be worth it in the end, and someone would notice how far I’ve come, and how much of a good person I have become and actually desire to spend time with me, and all my hard work would allow me to be a better and stronger person than most people and have the skills necessary to live a better life due to all I have endured. It helps remind me that I have made things better for myself in the past and I can make things better for myself in the future, and also reminds me that even if worst comes to worst and I lose to the darker aspects of myse, it’s better to live with a purpose, even if that purpose is driven by chaos, jealousy, and guilt than to just simply give up. However I don’t plan on simply “giving up” to my shadow either, I’m gonna try and fight this and bring about the best case scenario no matter what. I just needed a good reminder of why I fight in the first place.
You describe very well a stage in life which is common and potentially very harmful. At the moment you sound stuck in your own mind. A good place to start is voluntary work, especially for people who don't have much. Becoming homeless then working for homeless services turned my life around. It made me defeat the most self destructive parts of my mind, taught me humility, and got me to understand what it really means to be part of something bigger than myself.
Still strong, thank you for your work Max. Best videos on youtube, i hope you reach 1 mil before the end of this year, it all started as a random yellow guy talking about good games
Yeeeees, finally a Disco Elysium video. What a phenomenal game, played it for the very first time when it released on PS5 and already completed it 4 times. Definitely a top 10 of all time for me.
Oh "whirling in rags" is such a universal sound! Good for idling, thinking, conversing, starting or ending whatever. One of the first big hooks DE put into me
"I refuse to adopt idealogies because there are clear problems with all of them" Bro, you just called yourself a moralist centrist. Refusing to adopt any idealogy in the game puts you on "Kingdom of Conscience" and clearly you fit the bill my friend.
When your choices are Fascism, Communism, and Crony Capitalism, I think it’s reasonable to suggest that the lesser evil of those four is the centrist, but even then, I refuse Disco’s version of that for it’s problems. I prefer to find a better path.
@@maxderratyou say there are clear problems with all of them, and that's the point. If you spend your entire life finding the best political system you will never get anything done, and you will fail. There will be never be a system that everyone will agree on and be beneficial to all. The game isn't "challenging you to break out of the comfort of an ideology" it's challenging you to pick an ideology, to leave the comfort of centrism. To take a stand for what you believe in.
I think you would find a lot to like and talk about in Ice Pick Lodge's two bigger games, Pathologic and The Void. The latter especially is chock full of ideas packed into very minimalist writing. Anyway, Disco Elysium is great and I appreciate what you're doing on this channel!
I almost never see someone mention The Void. It definitely left a lasting impression on me. One of most unique games in both art design and gameplay. The only downside is that it is very buggy, really needs a remaster.
@@ukaszgrzesik7231 Yes! It's probably the most impactful game I've ever played. I've been lucky enough to somehow avoid most of the really bad bugs people encounter.
Thank you for the consistent high quality video essays. Disco Elysium is my favourite game of all time and your writing/narration is superb as always. Keep up the excellent work!
Thanks for this great video! I love this interpretation of Ship of Thesseus. Amnesia it is the first example in which ship of thesseus conondrum made sense to me. After all, our bodies renew constantly; skeleton as the slowest tissue to renew takes 7 years yet we remain with the same identity.
Absolutely brilliant game for me. In terms of teaching me philosophy, Disco Elysium didn't really do that (not a brag, I was just familiar with the philosophical positions presented in the game) But playing the game was one of the best gaming experiences I had had in many years. I loved the writing and the political, metaphysical, and ethical philosophies presented in it. I'd say it's one of the most literary games I've played as well. So much depth to its story. It's humorous at times despite being chock full of pathos. I love the world building too, references to the games cosmology were fascinating and open to plenty of interpretation (especially concerning epistemology and ontology) Your video analysis is spot on, I think. The game definitely challenges you to face ideologies head-on. So satisfying to play such a game. Thanks for this video. Great analysis. Very thoughtful.
Certainly not a bad video, but the milktoast politics takes are telling me that this person haven't *really* understood what DE is about or what it is trying to say. I think this person grasped a general idea, of the past mistakes and so on, yet they don't understand that Communism IS what this game longes for, the future lost, "the proletariat betraying the world" and is trying to battle this inner pessimism, that the better world is possible even if there is a high chance the world will end sooner. You didn't really grasp the game if you thought that you was able to "not choose any political side at all", becuase DE is categorizing this as a spineless moralintern-centrism and it's really telling that this person didn't catch on that. This game is made by post Soviet Baltic communists after all. An entertaining video nonetheless, but the first 5 minutes with the overuse of the world "philosophical" was kind of hard to watch. Playing DE or Planescape Torment is not an excercise in the philosophical or political theory. They have many things to say about those, but it's not like, reading Kant or shit man.
Spoiler alert!! I'm about as non-violent as you can get in real life, but I won't lie. After getting frustrated with being unable to get by Measurehead and feeling like he was giving me the runaround I decided to try to knock him out on a whim even though my physical stats where terrible. It was an incredibly satisfying feeling when I just so happened to get a perfect roll and absolutely wrecked him in two hits, it felt like the perfect response to his phrenological race theory nonsense.
Indeed, there is a lot of very philosophical games to be added on the list. "Most" is a weird comparation term for this, since philosophy is more "qualia" than quantitative. I'd say the most impactul and beautiful one for me was The Talos Principle. Not sure if you already have a video on it, but definetly worth the mention!
17:59 reminds me of the Only Fools and Horses joke where Trigger as a road sweeper he said his broomstick for number amount of years and replaced and broom head an stick at least a dozen times if I am right
Hi Max, you probably get spammed with those super often but have you ever heard about a game called Gemini Rue? It's a rather simple (gameplay wise) point and click adventure game set up in a Sci-Fi settings. I just watched your video on Planescape Torment and immediately thought about Gemini Rue as it also imposes similiar questions about ones responsibilites, fate and free will. It's a very niche title but it surely serves you with a lot of very profound moments. The studio responsible for it Wadjet Eye games release plethora of very profound stories told through point'n'click adventure game setting. While lacking in graphics (it's all just stylized pixel art) the game more than make up for it with excellent voice acting and thought provoking and profound stories. And I feel like Gemini Rue would really suit your channel.
Started playing this game yesterday. I played for 14 hours. I have made progress but I am absolutely lost. Most of that time I spent digging several holes for myself while wearing one shoe. I’m so frustrated and I can’t wait to get back to it.
The other thing about Disco is that it is pure and beautiful piece of the art of literature, of prose. The author aspired to make his creation first of all beautiful in literature sense. And it was the consequence of this approach that game acquired philosophical depth as well. This reminded me very much of Fedor Dostoevsky's works, were psychological depth of characters and intense conflict of discussed topics made it inevitable to raise plenty of philosophical issues. Was it made intentionally? I don't think so in both cases, just it is the nature of genius writer, to create many layers of meanings in their art to make it as complex and beautiful/terrifying as life itself. P.S. speaking of dices rolls, it is safer for nerve cells to just savescum, although some fails lead to better outcome and some successes lead to worse. So I think it is not forbidden to make rolls, assess results and choose do you want them or not
This is the best video about Disco Elysium I've seen so far. While I've never played Planescape, I respect the comparison of the two themes and their approach. Overall, great job of getting the message of Disco across especially without spoiling too much. Too many videos about Disco are basically just retellings of the entire story. Either way, keep up the good work! P.S I may just give Planescape a shot...
I'm tipping my glass to you for providing a clean through line between these two games. I would love to be an "arcane" friend. Or at least have a conversation.
Did you notice how one of the walls in Harry's room has the same pattern as the hotel carpet in The Shining? My theory is that it represents madness. I had a similar thought when seeing the menu screen for the first time, without knowing anything about the game, because the art style made me to think of a Vincent Van Gogh-like impressionism, leading me to theorize that madness is a theme in the game.
I absolutely love this game, but I got to force myself to play it. I got stuck on day 4, so I took a break, that was a few weeks ago. I think I'll try picking it up again, but it seems like I'm out of stuff to do. This game jumps between me being immersed and loving it and me being bored and lost. The experience is all over the place.
Disco and Torment are on my Top 5 games easily, incredible experiences, I would say they are so vastly different and in the future I hope to see the influence of Disco in many games just like Torment has done all this time.
The thing about Disco Elysium is that I can't help but choose the most absurd option just to see what happens. It hasn't worked well for me but I just HAD to. Lol!
The Disco Elysium is and will be one of the games that will make you wish to erase your memory and play it again to feel it...
I thought this game was pretty boring tbh
You must love feminist and communist propaganda
Well the opening established a method...
I was literally just thinking about this earlier today. I want to replay it, but I think I need to forget the plot before I do...
True. Thankfully the replay value is huge. Doing a fasc¡st run was certainly interesting lol.
I'd say Disco Elysium does let you change your nature, what is unchangable is your past but you start the game mentally as a blank slate. All the different inner voices change depending on how you allocated your points, the stronger a 'skill' is the more you'll hear from it throughout the game. It's worth playing through more than once, you don't realise the amount of content you invisibly miss out on until you start making different choices.
I went from an intellectual run with Logic (Or encyclopedia, I don't remember which but it was one of the two) as my main characteristic, and another one recently with Savoir Faire and little to no Intellect. It was incredible how some of the interactions change and some are made completely impossible making you have to take a different approach on the matter.
I don't think you get to change Harrier's nature. But you can change his perspective. He will always be a depressed mess who shields himself on extremist beliefs (whichever those might be) in order to avoid his pain. But you can make him someone who has given up or someone who keeps trying, someone who obsesses over a way out or works for a way forward. Also, will he do any of those things while holding onto who he was or will he adopt an entirely new persona in the process?
@@KatwindA depressed apocalypse hobo Harry doing anything he can to move forward and keep going despite seeing nothing in humanity, organizing with communists and artists as a way of genuiely opening his eyes while simultaneously *_literally iust being to have more friends_* is about the only Harry I can see existing. He hates the world, despises what its put him through but he doesn't fold over, doesn't rampantly apologize but may *_just_* for Sylvie, it connects dots for Harry that just feels natural.
...now do a "racist jerk to kim, let him die in exhcange for Cuno" run just to see how that goes...
@@Katwind Nah you can finish the game without being a lunatic or doing any drugs
As a grown man this is the one game that can make me giggle consistently, the dialogue is just so clever, absurd and well written. And this is despite the story being so serious and heavy, the humour is on another level.
The humor was the part that I was surprised by the most, and it's what hooked me immediately. The game is extremely funny.
Disco Elysium is the only game that has made me cry, that ONE god damned phone call, I shouldn't have tried the pay phone over and over again. And the resolution to the insulidian phasmid quest.... simply profound. I need to play Disco Elysium again.
NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
@@solaris4019What are you on about? Not even remotely the same kind of game.
@@solaris4019pathologic Is the most boring shit that i ever play (try to)
"Oh yes. This is real darkness. It's not death, or war, or child molestation. Real darkness has love for a face. The first death is in the heart, Harry. See you tomorrow."
I used DE to help me cope with my ongoing divorce. I was absolutely ravished, devastated to my core when she said that.
is there a place for all of the best quotes from DE? Does it have a goodreads page?
@@GregHuffman1987"the road to healing is going to be a long one. But stay the course. You'll make it, one day."
@@moderndavinci6599 there needs to be a top 10 quotes from Disco Elysium video somewhere
Ok, I interpreted the Pale in a completely different way. In my playthrough I had a "dialogue" with a very special npc I'm not going to spoil (you now who I mean) and they clearly said the Pale is produced by human thought, which is different by other animals' thought.
While animal only think about the here and now (maybe about the close past and future) humans constatly think about what does not exist: they think about what has happened, what could have happened, what they wish could happen, they create stories, ideologies, interpretations...
We know that the pale cannot be directly observed and measured. However, it seems to contain some sort of information: radio signals can be modified (it is possible to receive signals which apparently come from the past or even from the future) and people who travel through the pain a lot may even start remembering memories that don't belong to them (like the old woman). One could even argue that all the information Harry can acces while unsing the skill "Encyclopedia" have the same origin (however they may be just memories he is slowly recovering)
I think the Pale is the manifestation of human thought, expecially the kind of thought that is disconnected from reality. Animals have ideas, cognitive representations of object from the outside world, but they are in a 1:1 relationship.
Humans, using the same sensorial input, can produce much more ideas, ideas that can even be about impossible things.
I think the pale is the manifestation of these ideas, a "matterless thought".
I think the Motorway South disproves this interpretation, the pale will make you forget in time, only leaving you with the sensation of swallowing
If I remember correctly in the book "sacred and terrible air" The pale is repelled by the feeling of hope
@@wfogapgfahfnog35 When I wrote this comment I didn't know the book yet, and I didn't know all the magpie, futuresight and Pale stuff. In that book there are canon informations about the nature of the pale and you can feel free to ignore my comment.
This special npc you mention is actually not interacted with. HDB is interacting with it through Inland Empire, if I remember correctly. That means he’s using his imagination, not actually responding to the npcs communication. Just like when talking to a corpse, he’s talking to himself, hearing his own theories. Maybe 😅
@@raskaskoneisto Yeah, but if Harry truly is a Magpie he could actually get some extrasensorial perceptions... he may not be just delusional (however definetely the bug didn't speak... I think Harry had several premonitions and visions about the present and future during the game and his mind turn them into these very weird experiences).
I first played disco Elysium just the other day. I was having a difficult time and felt just like Harry did - struggling with addiction, being at my lowest in an unforgiving world. I was assigned sorry cop, and it honestly lead me to re-evaluate why I apologise to everyone in real life. Disco Elysium was beautiful.
Harry is like a mirror to me too, it really makes you reflect on your own shortcomings with a hopeful gaze
I have the same! And i always apologize everyone in real life...
*That* moment in Disco Elysium was truly magical. Really one moment in video game history I won't forget.
Is that the moment where you form a new genre of music or when you dissect the body?
@@brauliodiaz3925 It's the moment amidst the reeds
@@OnyxDeath369 That moment was absolutely magical, that and getting a good ending where Kim approves and vouches for you and you get to go home a hero essentially feels great. Also, when you learn the significance of the title screen, it suddenly hits hard.
The true magical moment was teleporting onto that roof.
@@VAVORiAL😅
DETECTIVE
ARRIVING
ON THE SCENE.
The moment when I knew this game was a special kind of magic. I had fucking chills
What makes that moment incredible is that before this your voices have worked together to help you, but this is the moment the voices sinc to create a single thought, showing this is the moment Harry got his shit together.
Tbh I like the video but think a lot of the philosophy went over the video makers head, which while I think disco is the most philosophical game, it shows his point that accessibility is a crucial part of the philosophy
Not choosing an ideology is kinda the wrong way to play the game.
The game doesn't want you to embrace the world as it is, it wants you to embody change. If you think things are shit in Revachol then who are you to say so if you don't care enough to want them to change. If you think Harry is in a bad place then make a choice. The game combines Harrys inner turmoil with his politics in an interesting way.
By not picking you are picking the side of the moralists or whoever else are in power. Politics is the art of compromises. No political party is 100% going to represent your values. The game is going to tell you to pick your ideology, then hit you in the balls with it whilst laughing at you for daring to choose. If you dare to care for the direction things are headed you are still going to make a choice though whether in game or real life.
I was about to comment this myself, not choosing an ideology is one of the most scathing critiques that the game levels at Moralism/Centrism. Politics isn't a choice when everything is inherently political, including having the safety and privilege to not pick a side.
Moralism. I love it.
@@HalcaeonArtWhat are the politics of blowing the snot out?
@@xiiir838 what?
I'm not sure I would say that not choosing a side is the WRONG way to play. The game is going to make fun of you no matter what you choose. I like to think of None of the Above as Disco's fifth ideology. Choosing not to take a side IS a choice. And not only does it not accomplish anything, it doesn't even TRY to accomplish anything.
As a self-confessed sad sack I connected deeply with Harry on his fucked up journey through lives of the people of Martinaise, and had some serious moments of self-reflection and critique along the way. The game made me confront some uncomfortable truths about myself and my life, and even helped me make peace with some of them. I even managed to sort Harry out into a somewhat functional human being at the end of it all. One of the few games that I can truly say changed me as a person and I regularly return to the OST and my favorite quotes in times when I'm in need of inspiration or comforting nostalgia. I get the same feeling from this game as I do talking to a friend who has known me all my life - mocking my attempts at self-doubt and self-pity, and telling me the hard truths I need to hear not out of hate but because they know I can be better. Thank you for covering Disco Elysium, I definitely hope to see more content based around it in the future.
Same. I was in my personal lowest moment with alcoholism, and this game was the turning point. Harry's journey felt parallel to mine at that point of time.
Me too man
Great comment. Couldn't have said it better. Disco Elysium can truly change lives.
_Disco Elysium_ is one of those rare gems that can be either hilarious, sad, or beautiful at different moments without it feeling unhinged or badly written. This game is phenomenal, it's a literary experience the likes of which you're only going to encounter a few times in your life.
I feel like I'm going through my own Disco Elysium these past few years. Something of a dark night of the soul. I wish you all the best on your own respective journeys through the swamp.
This. I aspire to be like Kim some day.
Some day....
I always find it interesting that the only person amongst the normal folks doing well in revachol is the dice maker. Of all the things one could do as a profession she makes custom dice and game pieces.
Max you’re killing it dude! Much appreciation for covering this game and it’s profound commentary on the human condition
Great timing. I'm a huge Planescape fan since 1999 and recently finished Disco Elysium 2 weeks ago. Both have been in my mind a lot recently. I appreciate your interpretation on how each game approached different answers to similar questions.
One of the best things about your channel Max is getting game recommendations since you cover such great games. Keep up the great work dude
"The most immersive game I've ever played." This sums up Disco pretty well. The best way I've found to describe it, even though it's a really weird phrase, is "The book I've read that comes closest to communicating the feeling of being alive, that is also a game."
First second of the video and my mind just fucking melted from a wave of memories. Incredible game
"Disco Elysium" exactly shows, that you can't avoid choosing when we're talking about politics. If you remain apolitical, then you just support status quo. In "DE" status quo is moralism. So when you choose not to choose, you choose moralism.
Please make a part two to this review. If this was the spoiler free section, please make a spoiler section. How games as an art form is able to influence people is the very reason I subscribe to this channel in the first place.
I definitely have to get back to this game! I played a decent amount and genuinely loved it, but the PS4 version at the time was kinda buggy, so I abandoned it at some point.
What I think is pretty amazing, is how the different parts of your brain have different personalities and talk to you. That's such a cool idea!
Not only talk to you, but argue with each other and none of them tell you the whole story so you can be lead astray by putting too much trust on their views. Canonically if you have read the book DE is based on, Shivers has your ass covered the most but in game it's so prophetic it really isn't helping you too much to solve the on going case. :D
Watching this video was like seeing a flickering flame illuminate the path on my dark night of the soul. Currently suffering from some deep existential dread and struggling to hold onto a purpose. Thanks for kindling my hope
I have not watched this video yet, I'm one of the weirdos who reads comments first. Going through similar struggles. Needed to read this. Gives me hope for hope. All things are connected. Blessings to you friend.
@@authaire we're all gonna make it. And we'll look back at such times with fondness. For now, we just gotta make our way through the storm.
Hope and faith are psychological mechanisms to deal with uncertainty of existence, they don't guarantee the outcome they only support in making an attempt.
I encourage you to find a creative outlet such as art, writing, music etc... At my lowest points I'll just pick up a pencil and just start to create, even if I don't want to or know what to create. Just start with a doodle (or equivalent for your medium) and you'll be surprised. When you come back to it, seeing something tangible that you created is at least something and may be an important reminder that you and the struggle in personal growth is worth it.
I succeeded a 3% roll on laying out Measurehead on my first try, which got erased because the Union Leader's uncomfortable chair gave me a heart attack & I didn't save.
I dare anyone who hasn't played the game make sense of that statement.
Max Derrat analyzing Disco Elysium is one of those videos I always wanted to see but never truly expected to happen.
Thank you sir, you made my day.
I love the way you analyse and describe these games. This and Planescape give me a very particular feeling that in Welsh we have a word for but doesn’t translate well into English.
The feelings these games have to me is something called “hiraeth”.
It's a homesickness for the places from your past you can't return to or even those you've never been to. Hiraeth can also mean nostalgia for your past self, the people who are long gone, or the emotions you used to feel.
NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
Wowowowow. Hardcore to the mega!
Disco Elysium feels like the game from another world, it touched my soul and left me in deep melancholic state for a long time. Thanks for the video.
There is a radio in the distance.
A radio of the world.
Playing sounds: Good morning, Elysium.
Soon you will return to the world.
The moment at the end made me shed a literal tear it's really the best way to end the story of this game and it's kind of sad some people miss it on initial playthroughs
I still raise you Pathologic and Pathologic 2 as the most philosophical video game. :P
They are games that show that your own perspective on the world affects greatly how you can interact with it. It puts you in situations where you are greatly rewarded for doing the morally grey or even cruel actions and shows viscerally how even people with the best intentions can be reduced to thieves and murderers.
I don't know if I would necessarily call them more philosophical than something like Disco Elysium or Planescape, but they definitely deserve a video of their own. Pathologic 2 was the most harrowing experience I ever got from a videogame, one that is going to live with me forever, and it's a game that should be definitely talked about more
But pathological wants to make me kill myself. Not cause the story is depressing though.
@@Fbleh NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
TOP Philosophical video game is Pathologic, this is fact not opinion.
PSA!! Do NOT buy Planescape Torment on console!! Specifically Ps4! It is a buggy broken nightmare with zero attention given by the developers and you will not get a refund! Please do your on research and heed my warning! I spent $60 on that game, which thats A LOT of money to me, and all for nothing because it kept crashing and crashing. I hope I can save at least one of you from going through what I had to
I was seriously considering getting it. $60 is alot for me too especially on an old game that's a bundle deal when i only want one game. I appreciate the heads up.
This channel really is one of Gems of TH-cam, Keep it up
So you experienced the game from your own perspective, rather than role-playing a character? You missed out, Disco Elysium is an extremely rare example of a studio actually trying to create a video game that contains RP.
i might challenge that slightly, as i took similar advice for my first playthrough. i statted harry to approximate my own self-image and did my best to make choices based on what i would say in real life, without the mask of being a protagonist. it was genuinely challenging on many fronts - both in maintaining my honesty and in defending my choices - and several times over i felt as though the game was psychoanalyzing me like nothing else ever has. when engaging through that lens, it’s a truly magical experience
This channel is a gift. Thank you, Max!
Ok, I'm actually going to hold off on watching this video because I need to play DE for myself without spoilers. However I need to take this opportunity to put a bug in your ear about an old PS1 Japanese exclusive called Planet Laika. It's a crazy space opera about a character with multiple personalities who goes to Mars with dog-faced cosmonauts because Mars has a human face and Martians gave up their faces decades ago and are in a constant search to find themselves as a result. It's an 80's color explosion of existential jazz played through rusty instruments while a retired Slavic philosopher drones on about the meaning of self through a vodka-soaked miasma. But more than that, the spiritual and psychological angles will fascinate you. There's references to Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, and Nietzsche, Talmudic esoterica, a likely reference to the Rebis, and possibly false histories of Atlantis. Oh, and it was developed by the same folks who made Kowloon's Gate.
No idea if you can make a video about it but the content alone should strike a chord with you based on your interests. There's an English translation available for it through uh... 'alternative digital acquisition methods'. Something that rhymes with BomNacking.Met.
I'll have to take a look
Amazing work as always Max please keep going!
The ending of this video, amazing.
You genuinely moved me
max, since I've been following this channel I've repeatedly indicated 3 games in the comments, omori, disco elysium and outer wilds. I didn't expect that none of the three would win a video, but Omori and disco elysium were already crossed out of the list. So I'm waiting for the outer wilds video
I’m happy that you gave Disco Elysium a go. It’s one of those games that profoundly impacted me and thought of you when you made your Planescape video. I told myself that you would eventually make a video about since it holds a connection. Your analytical comparison is perfect. Cheers to you!
So glad i found this channel years ago keep doing you Max!
Thank you for this film essay Max. I bought Disco Elysium a few months ago, but haven't played it; however, now I am more than motivated to tackle the philosophical journey. It was nice to also see the comparisons drawn to Planescape.
I had the opportunity to play Planescape Torment when it came out and it's been my favorite game of that genre ever since. I had played it through several times, but not in the past few years. I picked up and played Torment Tides of Numenera when it came out, seeing as it was marketed as a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment. While I thought Numenera was a lot of fun, it wasn't until I played Disco Elysium that I found my personal successor to Planescape Torment. After beating Disco Elysium, I immediately started a new Planescape Torment game. Btw Max, you rock!
This was beautiful, especially the ending. Thank you Max.
Thank you. I've been looking for a spoiler free video on why this game is special to share with my friends. I had a hard time getting into this game when I first got it on release because it's so wide open and so easy to fail. I tried again this last month and it clicked. It's provocative in all the right ways.
The two jewels in the crown, Disco Elysium and Planescape, both top quality games, what I find interesting is that they are in the same genre, and both take the genre to the top, sad to know that this game will not have a sequel, that it's just sad, at least they leave us this masterpiece, i really love these two games and the way they explore this profound concepts, and it's great to see them get more recognition, they really deserved it, you really did a great job covering this game.
NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
What a fantastic video. What you said at the end is so true, and it was exactly what I felt playing. I have to say, I have not watched many of your videos, but all the ones I did were awesome. I was searching for an experience like the profound one I had with Disco Elysium, my favorite game, and I wasn't familiar with planescape torment, but I already got it and will dive into it. Keep up the great work, you're nailing it.
Disco Elysium is easily the most well written game I've ever played
NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
I was so hyped for this game but the characters were just so dull and uninteresting that I couldn’t continue. The fact that you have to speak to them for ten to fifteen minutes straight would be perfectly fine if I found their company engaging.
Perhaps I’ll pick it up again in the future because I really don’t want to have this opinion.
Well... It was certainly 'written' now wasn't it...
Everything I'm reading here just screams ignorant coddling. Go pick up some books if you want real philosophy
is this thread for real
@@alexanderkorn4730man I've read philosophy and it's just nice to see so many ideas presented in this game with weight and comedy. No one is saying disco is a replacement for actual study and interest, it's just entertaining and thought provoking. No need to shame someone for enjoying it
What I love about this game is that it brilliantly showcases that you can truly change "reality" by what you believe about it, and how you chose to think and act on it. Everything that happens to you in the game feels "real" - even though it can't be, since you can believe completely different things and get vastly different outcomes and experiences by that, that still... fit into this world. The same objective reality can tell dozens of different stories, depending on the perspective you take. Just like in real life. This game made me question the true, and kind of absolute, power of our belief-systems and philosophies. It got me onto a quest to "creatively shape my reality, by carefully, and conciously chosing the most beneficial philosophy for the given moment and situation." It's an ongoing experiment, that thus far, has vastly improved every aspect of my life, and my overall happiness.
Just started my first run for Disco. I'm amazed by the depth of how much your thoughts effect you and the way you interact with your surroundings. Unlike most RPG, the choices you make really are transformative. It really is a great message on the importance of critical thinking.
I just love your content. You responding to me about the Metabarons absolutely made my day when I was down. Thank you.
I'v had Disco Elysium on my PC for a year now and just got the free time to play it. I started it yesterday and I know it'a just coincidence but having Max upload it at this exact point in time sure doesn't feel like it.
The voice acting in this game gives me the chills every time
Great video again highlighting depth and breadth of philosophical ramifications in video games! Kudos Max! I remember having played PS: Torment on my new tablet in 2018 and will never ever forget the experience. Thank you very much for making your enthusiasm public and sharing the passion of playing philosophical games that make us wonder and pose essential questions. Having said that, I agree wholeheartedly. Disco Elysium and Planescape: Torment are both the most philosophical games ever made. For me personally, PS:Torment stands on its own. IMHO, it represents its own genre. To me, it left a much deeper impression than Disco Elysium, Talos Principle, Soma, Deus Ex... which are exceptional games in their own respect and which I enjoyed tremendously as well. But, well, Planescape: Torment IS unique. No way around that.
Beautiful. I've been waiting for a video on this game. It's the most cathartic experience.
Honestly, it is absolutely shocking and beautiful that I came across this video whenever I did. Cause I’m currently struggling with a lotta things and concepts that are present in the game’s themes. Themes like self improvement and combating with one’s own nature, have been something very present in this current chapter of my life. It just seems like sometimes that so many people get great things thrust upon them, while I have had to tirelessly work and struggle to just live a somewhat “normal” life. While others get that thrust upon them, from the get go and I’m seemingly at such advantage so many times, where it seems like struggling through it all, may not be worth it, and that maybe I would just be better off either embracing the darker and more chaotic aspects of my personality, aka my Shadow, in Jungian terms, or just simply giving up all together and fall into the deep dark abyss of death. Even if I did go to hell, what difference would it make since I seemingly have suffered all my life so it would just be simply more of the same but, the pain would be less personal, so therefore it would hurt less. It would also be spiteful to God, as kinda an ultimate “screw you” for even allowing me to endure and live through such a painful existence in the first place, and being born into a position where I was seemingly forsaken at birth. However games and videos like this really actually let me rethink some of those worldviews and actually let me consider the fact that things might not turn out as badly as they seem, and ultimately they remind me that my struggling will be worth it in the end, and someone would notice how far I’ve come, and how much of a good person I have become and actually desire to spend time with me, and all my hard work would allow me to be a better and stronger person than most people and have the skills necessary to live a better life due to all I have endured. It helps remind me that I have made things better for myself in the past and I can make things better for myself in the future, and also reminds me that even if worst comes to worst and I lose to the darker aspects of myse, it’s better to live with a purpose, even if that purpose is driven by chaos, jealousy, and guilt than to just simply give up. However I don’t plan on simply “giving up” to my shadow either, I’m gonna try and fight this and bring about the best case scenario no matter what. I just needed a good reminder of why I fight in the first place.
beautiful
You describe very well a stage in life which is common and potentially very harmful. At the moment you sound stuck in your own mind. A good place to start is voluntary work, especially for people who don't have much.
Becoming homeless then working for homeless services turned my life around. It made me defeat the most self destructive parts of my mind, taught me humility, and got me to understand what it really means to be part of something bigger than myself.
Still strong, thank you for your work Max. Best videos on youtube, i hope you reach 1 mil before the end of this year, it all started as a random yellow guy talking about good games
This man should play fear and hunger, lisa and pathologic
Yeeeees, finally a Disco Elysium video. What a phenomenal game, played it for the very first time when it released on PS5 and already completed it 4 times. Definitely a top 10 of all time for me.
Oh "whirling in rags" is such a universal sound! Good for idling, thinking, conversing, starting or ending whatever. One of the first big hooks DE put into me
"I refuse to adopt idealogies because there are clear problems with all of them"
Bro, you just called yourself a moralist centrist. Refusing to adopt any idealogy in the game puts you on "Kingdom of Conscience" and clearly you fit the bill my friend.
When your choices are Fascism, Communism, and Crony Capitalism, I think it’s reasonable to suggest that the lesser evil of those four is the centrist, but even then, I refuse Disco’s version of that for it’s problems. I prefer to find a better path.
@@maxderrat Sorry bro, I'm a Marxist-Leninist so I picked Communism, Kras Masov has the right idea
This is exactly why i cant play this game and gave up, what on earth did you two just say to each other 😂?!
@@maxderratyou say there are clear problems with all of them, and that's the point. If you spend your entire life finding the best political system you will never get anything done, and you will fail. There will be never be a system that everyone will agree on and be beneficial to all. The game isn't "challenging you to break out of the comfort of an ideology" it's challenging you to pick an ideology, to leave the comfort of centrism. To take a stand for what you believe in.
We’ve finally made it to Elysium brothers
I think you would find a lot to like and talk about in Ice Pick Lodge's two bigger games, Pathologic and The Void. The latter especially is chock full of ideas packed into very minimalist writing.
Anyway, Disco Elysium is great and I appreciate what you're doing on this channel!
PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
I almost never see someone mention The Void. It definitely left a lasting impression on me. One of most unique games in both art design and gameplay. The only downside is that it is very buggy, really needs a remaster.
@@ukaszgrzesik7231 Yes! It's probably the most impactful game I've ever played. I've been lucky enough to somehow avoid most of the really bad bugs people encounter.
One of the greatest games in this era
NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
I'm saving this for later, my break is almost up, and I'm gonna be furious if I get interrupted by a call.
"i refused to join any alignment, for i could see that all of them had their problems"
i like this max guy
Now this is a video I didn't know I needed
I read the video title I thought "the other" was going to be Planescape: Torment, but it was the other way around xD
This was such a fascinating game, and loved seeing how in depth you went into it
Love this game, been hoping for you to cover it!
Years later and this game...its mood and characters...still sticks in my head
Thank you for the consistent high quality video essays. Disco Elysium is my favourite game of all time and your writing/narration is superb as always.
Keep up the excellent work!
Love your work
Thanks for this great video!
I love this interpretation of Ship of Thesseus. Amnesia it is the first example in which ship of thesseus conondrum made sense to me.
After all, our bodies renew constantly; skeleton as the slowest tissue to renew takes 7 years yet we remain with the same identity.
Bravo! You worded it much better than I ever could.
Absolutely brilliant game for me. In terms of teaching me philosophy, Disco Elysium didn't really do that (not a brag, I was just familiar with the philosophical positions presented in the game) But playing the game was one of the best gaming experiences I had had in many years. I loved the writing and the political, metaphysical, and ethical philosophies presented in it. I'd say it's one of the most literary games I've played as well. So much depth to its story. It's humorous at times despite being chock full of pathos. I love the world building too, references to the games cosmology were fascinating and open to plenty of interpretation (especially concerning epistemology and ontology)
Your video analysis is spot on, I think. The game definitely challenges you to face ideologies head-on. So satisfying to play such a game.
Thanks for this video. Great analysis. Very thoughtful.
Certainly not a bad video, but the milktoast politics takes are telling me that this person haven't *really* understood what DE is about or what it is trying to say. I think this person grasped a general idea, of the past mistakes and so on, yet they don't understand that Communism IS what this game longes for, the future lost, "the proletariat betraying the world" and is trying to battle this inner pessimism, that the better world is possible even if there is a high chance the world will end sooner. You didn't really grasp the game if you thought that you was able to "not choose any political side at all", becuase DE is categorizing this as a spineless moralintern-centrism and it's really telling that this person didn't catch on that. This game is made by post Soviet Baltic communists after all.
An entertaining video nonetheless, but the first 5 minutes with the overuse of the world "philosophical" was kind of hard to watch. Playing DE or Planescape Torment is not an excercise in the philosophical or political theory. They have many things to say about those, but it's not like, reading Kant or shit man.
Wow, watching the footage made me realize that I missed a lot on my first playthrough.
This is cool and all but does Disco Elysium have a floating skull companion?
No, but it does have a jogging SKULL companion.
Spoiler alert!!
I'm about as non-violent as you can get in real life, but I won't lie. After getting frustrated with being unable to get by Measurehead and feeling like he was giving me the runaround I decided to try to knock him out on a whim even though my physical stats where terrible. It was an incredibly satisfying feeling when I just so happened to get a perfect roll and absolutely wrecked him in two hits, it felt like the perfect response to his phrenological race theory nonsense.
So glad you finally did a video on Disco Elysium.
Indeed, there is a lot of very philosophical games to be added on the list. "Most" is a weird comparation term for this, since philosophy is more "qualia" than quantitative. I'd say the most impactul and beautiful one for me was The Talos Principle. Not sure if you already have a video on it, but definetly worth the mention!
to quote the High Evolutionary from an old Adam Warlock comic: "In unbridled memories lie the seeds of madness"
"I don't want to be this kind of animal anymore"
17:59 reminds me of the Only Fools and Horses joke where Trigger as a road sweeper he said his broomstick for number amount of years and replaced and broom head an stick at least a dozen times if I am right
Literally just searched "philosophy in gaming" and this came up. Nice find, TH-cam!
Getting over it with Bennet Foddy is pretty philosophical.
Playing it atm. I never thought its actually THAT good.
Hi Max, you probably get spammed with those super often but have you ever heard about a game called Gemini Rue? It's a rather simple (gameplay wise) point and click adventure game set up in a Sci-Fi settings. I just watched your video on Planescape Torment and immediately thought about Gemini Rue as it also imposes similiar questions about ones responsibilites, fate and free will. It's a very niche title but it surely serves you with a lot of very profound moments. The studio responsible for it Wadjet Eye games release plethora of very profound stories told through point'n'click adventure game setting. While lacking in graphics (it's all just stylized pixel art) the game more than make up for it with excellent voice acting and thought provoking and profound stories. And I feel like Gemini Rue would really suit your channel.
Started playing this game yesterday. I played for 14 hours. I have made progress but I am absolutely lost. Most of that time I spent digging several holes for myself while wearing one shoe. I’m so frustrated and I can’t wait to get back to it.
The other thing about Disco is that it is pure and beautiful piece of the art of literature, of prose. The author aspired to make his creation first of all beautiful in literature sense. And it was the consequence of this approach that game acquired philosophical depth as well. This reminded me very much of Fedor Dostoevsky's works, were psychological depth of characters and intense conflict of discussed topics made it inevitable to raise plenty of philosophical issues. Was it made intentionally? I don't think so in both cases, just it is the nature of genius writer, to create many layers of meanings in their art to make it as complex and beautiful/terrifying as life itself.
P.S. speaking of dices rolls, it is safer for nerve cells to just savescum, although some fails lead to better outcome and some successes lead to worse. So I think it is not forbidden to make rolls, assess results and choose do you want them or not
This is the best video about Disco Elysium I've seen so far. While I've never played Planescape, I respect the comparison of the two themes and their approach. Overall, great job of getting the message of Disco across especially without spoiling too much. Too many videos about Disco are basically just retellings of the entire story. Either way, keep up the good work! P.S I may just give Planescape a shot...
I'm tipping my glass to you for providing a clean through line between these two games. I would love to be an "arcane" friend. Or at least have a conversation.
Hype hype! I could not wait for your take on this *chefs kiss* game!
love this channel, another great vid homie
Please do your take on the full spoiler deep dive of disco elysium. I will likely never play it and would love to hear your thoughts 👍
Disco Elysium is what I've always wanted video games to be, I think I need to play Planescape Torment too some day.
Did you notice how one of the walls in Harry's room has the same pattern as the hotel carpet in The Shining? My theory is that it represents madness. I had a similar thought when seeing the menu screen for the first time, without knowing anything about the game, because the art style made me to think of a Vincent Van Gogh-like impressionism, leading me to theorize that madness is a theme in the game.
I absolutely love this game, but I got to force myself to play it. I got stuck on day 4, so I took a break, that was a few weeks ago. I think I'll try picking it up again, but it seems like I'm out of stuff to do. This game jumps between me being immersed and loving it and me being bored and lost. The experience is all over the place.
Disco and Torment are on my Top 5 games easily, incredible experiences, I would say they are so vastly different and in the future I hope to see the influence of Disco in many games just like Torment has done all this time.
NO. PATHOLOGIC IS MUCH BETTER GAME STORY, DIALOG AND CHARACTER THAN BORING DISCO ELYSIUM.
Pathologic 2 > Disco Elysium
thank you max, thanks for everything.
The thing about Disco Elysium is that I can't help but choose the most absurd option just to see what happens. It hasn't worked well for me but I just HAD to. Lol!