Bought several products made in Italy in the past, none of them impressed me in terms of quality and reliability, styling yes. From what I gather of your review above that confirms my belief.
What a fabulous review. I've had the machine close to 3 years and now I will change basket and portafilter and try to reduce the pressure. Thank you Tom!!
I own a Grace too and agree with your assessment, all in all it's a great machine for it's price tag. One useful tip: when you go from steam mode back to coffee mode, leave the steam valve opened up and it will get you to the operational temperature a lot faster.
Good honest review. I own the Kate and the pressure issue is the same - its really rubbish from Lelit setting the pressure so high on machines whilst making this so hard to reset at home.
Excellent review Tom, as usual. I especially liked the basket comparison and the info about adjusting the OPV. I have to wonder why some manufacturers still insist on shipping machines from the factory with such high pressure, when it's known to cause sub-par extractions and increase the chance of channeling. There's absolutely no downside to setting machines to 9 bar, even if in practice the pressure will be around 8 bar (which is probably even better in most cases). One theory I heard is that 11+ bar pressure is required for ESE pod compatibility, but who really buys a machine like this to use it with pods? A couple of additional points: 1. The shot counter now counts up, but this is something that Lelit recently changed. Past models (I think up to about a year ago) counted down. If people are buying second hand, they should be aware of this. 2. I would much rather get a self-leveling tamper instead of a Lelit branded one. I think the self-leveling mechanism brings a real benefit that's worth paying a bit extra for. However finding one with a 57.35mm diameter is a bit of a challenge, but you can order a 58mm version from aliexpress and a 57.35mm custom base plate. I can add links to the relevant product pages if anyone is interested. All in all, a very appealing machine. I don't own one (I use a Bianca V3 and a Flair 58), but if I had to recommend a machine to a friend at this budget, the Grace would be my pick over popular (but more feature-thin) options like the Rancilio Silvia and Gaggia Classic Pro.
Hi there! Yes, I have heard about the older models counting down. That seems really counter intuitive. Glad this one is updated (1.14 is the firmware). I really don't know why the OPV was set that high - I doubt anyone uses pods. I at least never have. It is too bad, that the accessories for 57mm are so few and far between. But, you might be able to unscrew this base, and put it on a Normcore self leveller for example. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Tom
Hi! Newbie, here. Would you mind sharing the links for your recommended self-leveling tamper and custom base plate for this machine? Thanks in advance for your help.
@@victorfonte Hi there! They are in the video description. But I will put them here, too: ►Lelit 57mm Bottomless OEM PF: geni.us/LelitBottomless57mm ►Lelit 57.35mm Tamper: geni.us/57_35mmTamper ►Lelit IMS 57mm Basket: geni.us/IMS_57mm_Basket
With my PL81T I use a rubber funnel permanently located in position. Very convinient. About opv setting, I initially set blind 8.5. I finlly changed it to blind 9. I think it works better. Thanks to steam mode, possible to hack and play with pressure if wished. Initial setting to 9, gives you more range.
I bought this machine (the Victoria version bc the Grace was out of stock) and we couldn't be happier. The espresso is delicious, and the machine is easy to operate. We did upgrade our baskets (although we still can't pull shots with a bottomless portafilter since it's too hard to get super fresh beans where we live). Highly recommend! We have this paired with the Eureka Silenzio grinder.
For the Lelit Elizabeth it's possible to change the LCC display to show the actual boiler temperature in the advanced menu. I'd assume the same would be the case for this model. Dave Corbey has some videos on changing the setting with the elizabeth
I will have to do that soon! I am at 8.5 bar right now - want to bump that up to 9. I think I will make a video showing that, along with the advanced LCC settings.
Hey, here you have video about adjusting OPV in Victoria: th-cam.com/video/KVtpmOQSrJQ/w-d-xo.html It’s nearly the same. I did it couple days ago. You need definitely lighter and good screw. Be patient. Set OPV at 9,6-9,7 using blind basket. During extraction you will get ~9,0 bars (it depends on flow rate unfortunately). Also bought IMS basket. Finally espresso tastes really good 😊.
I reached out to Profitec to try getting a loaner unit, but I never heard back from them. I will be honest, these videos only very rarely sell machines through affiliate links, so the Go would be a large purchase for me, that likely wouldn't amortize itself. Subsequently, I am still waiting for them to reach out to me, and maybe loan me a model for a review. :) Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you very much for your answer :) I looked at the "go" lately due to it's good critics it receives but I was hoping to get your idea of it as well.
Tom, you may also try to change the shower screen - I've bought an IMS screen and it was a game changer for me. Among others, the shot became much less prone to channeling. By the way, maybe they put different baskets, mine were not so horrible (I've bought the machine a year ago), but I've changed them to Ascaso and, honestly speaking, i feel no big difference apart from a bit different flow rate.
Thanks for this super detailed video! I have a question, when you turn it on and it heats up, is the PID gauge calibrated to the current temperature? Because on mine, the gauge become fully charged and the PID displays my desired temperature (95 degrees) but continues to flash for a few minutes before displaying OK and stopping flashing. So I was wondering if the PID was properly calibrated/broken or if it was just a detail.
Tom, you were talking about setting the OPV to 8.5 bars. Did you set this pressure with a blind basket, or this is the real world pressure with coffee? There's about 0.5 bar difference between them. By the way, I managed to turn the OPV screw without heating it. They say EU versions of the machines are mostly unglued.
Hi, I am a new owner of this lovely machine but I can't make such a nice cappuccino... I don't know how fine to grind the beans!? I am using Baraza sette 270 wi and I feel difficult to get the exact coarse to make like this espresso? Can you please advise me? Thank you
Thank you for the review Tom. I need your help please: Currently have a Gaggia Classic Evo since for only 4 months, bought brand new but have the already known "boilergate" issue, completely lost my confidence in the brand so I'm decided to switch to Lelit. I have 3 options: Anna (PL41TEM), Grace (PL81T) or Victoria (PL91T), Anna is 500 Euros, Grace is 650 Euros and Victoria 750 Euros. I know Anna is the oldest out here but read only good reviews about it and honestly I might be wrong but have a feeling that the quality of the important components was better in the past. So, which of the 3 do you think I should get? Other than 57mm vs 58mm what is the difference between Grace and Victoria? I rarely use the steam function, 99% of time drinking only espresso. PS: I'll use it with my current Eureka Mignon Specialita. HUGE Thank you for your help!!!😀
Howdy! Of those 3, I like the Grace. The Victoria has a 300ml vs 250ml boiler and a 58mm PF, otherwise they're the same. I find the Anna machine fugly. But I like looking at the Grace. Cheers!
Hi Tom, also wondering why no preinfusion. Naybe you can show us how to get a better shot wirhout adjusting the OPV? Not all of us can fiddle with machines. I also recently got the Lelit Grace
It was a pain in the butt, and I stripped the OPV screw a bit. I could do a video about it, if enough people are interested. I turned off the pre-infusion as I was doing tests for a grinder, and I wanted straight output from the shot timer.
Hi Tom, thanks for the great reviews you are making :) I am currently starting to get into the art of espresso making and am a bit lost between all the machines but am very much into the asthetics of the Lelit machines. Between the Grace and the Glenda which one would you recommend for a beginner?
Grace, Grace, Grace! The Grace looks way nicer in my opinion, has a much nicer user interface, and illuminated buttons. So it's cooler. But technically they are both quite similar, just that the Glenda has a 58mm portaftiler and a 300ml vs 250ml boiler. The Grace at it's price-point is in my opinion unbeatable.
Thanks for another excellent & informative video. I started looking into buying a first home espresso "kit" last week and continue to come across your content -- really appreciate it. I wonder if you would be willing to give advice as to which machine you would prefer for a sub €600 - this, or the Bambino, or Gaggia? I feel completely lost in a sea of products. Cheers - Alex from Sweden.
Hey Alex! Of those, I really like the Grace the best. Grace and GCP both offer good build quality and components. Grace offers manometer, PID and adjustable OPV, so for the extra money, I would certainly recommend it over the GCP. People end up adding a PID to the GCP later, and that costs another $150-200 to retrofit.
Thanks for the nice review Tom! My old Sage Barista Express is about to reach its life cycle after 5 years and i want to go a step further with a new maschine. Can you tell if there is much of a difference between Grace and Victoria? The price difference is quite big, about 200 Euros.
Hi there! I prefer the Grace because it's cheaper, and has a 250ml boiler, instead of the 300ml one in the Victoria. That makes the Grace slightly quicker to heat up. I also don't mind the 57mm, since Lelit makes some perfect accessories for it. They're in the video description if you're curious. Hope that helps!
it's about the 58mm that is basically standard in proper espresso machines, so you will have access to a lot more aftermarket parts. If you're happy with it out of the box (besides the plastic tamper that comes with it) I think the Grace is offering a good value for money (I own one as well). Not sure if the Victoria is offering the most competitive package in its price band.
Hey Tom. I currently looking for an entry Espresso Machine. Im thinking inbetween the Grace or the older Glenda. What would you prefer? :) Really looking forward for your Answer!
thx for the review! your vids helped me to get way more out of my old dedica but i guess now its time to move on:) i hava an opportunity to buy a returned PL91T. they seem super similar, tho on paper victoria seems better: - 250 ml vs 300 ml - 1000 W vs 1200 W - 57 mm vs 58 mm group - 7,4 kg vs 9,2 kg (i guess more stability:) are you aware of any downsides of PL91T? any advice?
The only downside of the Victoria over the Grace is that the boiler will be slightly more laggy in getting back down to espresso temp after steaming, would be my guess, since the boiler is 25% larger. Cheers!
Unfortunately you didn´t talk about the pressure. For me it is hardly possible to reach 8 bars. If I grind the coffee finer to get 8 bar or more, it just drips. What can I do?
Hi Tom, thanks to your detailed review(s) I went ahead and bought a Victoria - wanted to stay at the 58mm standarts - but after I making a double shot, I steam my milk at about 140C degrees, so far so good, but when I want to make another double shot, I have to wait like 10 mins before the machine cools down to about 95C. During this period the pump runs briefly for 5-10 seconds once at the beginning and then it's simply just waiting. Do you think this waiting time is normal? Thank you!
Hello, I'm from Indonesia, in my country it's very difficult to get this coffee machine at a low price, also with accessories. by the way how did you get the 57mm portafilter ring?
A quick Internet search seems to indicate that the Grace is not available in the USA, the next one more expensive is, the Victoria, which at $1k is a little out of my price range. I'm sad....
Hallo Tom, danke für das ausführliche Review. Ich versuche mich gerade zwischen der neuen Gaggia Classic Evo (Modell 2023, wobei sich die Neuerungen in Grenzen halten) und der Lelit Grace zu entscheiden. Wie es aussieht muss man wohl bei beiden den Druck anpassen, wobei es bei der Gaggia deutlich leichter für handwerklich Unbegabte zu sein scheint. Danke für den Hinweis, dass nicht die tatsächliche Temperatur angezeigt wird. Wenn das PID nur die ausgewählte Temperatur anzeigt stellt sich mir die Frage, ob dann auch einigermaßen zuverlässig die eingestellte Temperatur unten rauskommt. Hast du das genauer kontrolliert? Sonst wäre das PID ja ziemlich sinnlos und damit ein wichtiges Alleinstellungsmerkmal praktisch wertlos. Beste Grüße.
Servus Jan! Die Grace is viel besser, meine Meinung nach. Da ist das PID schon integriert, man bekommt ein Manometer, ein grössere Boiler, und viel mehr. Das Design ist moderner dazu. Außerdem, bekommst du viel mehr Platz für die Tassen. Die GCP hat wenig Raum für höhere Tassen. Das OPV ist zugegeben nicht so leicht zu justieren, aber ich mache noch ein Video drüber, dann ist es gut dokumentiert. Man kann auch die aktuelle Temperature anzeigen, es ist ein Setting in den fortgeschrittene Menü. Das werde ich wohl auch mit einem Video zeigen. Schöne Grüße! Tom PS - man bekommt mit der Lelit auch ein Messing Boiler, statt Alu wie bei GCP.
great review! Unfortunately it seems to be pretty hard to get this machine at a decent price right now, for whatever reason its either out of stock or above 800€
Hello Tom! I need your advice, please! I sold my specialista Arte to buy a Gaggia classic Pro (Neo), but now I saw this Lelit Grace, which is only more 100 euros or less then the Gaggia. Besides the con Lelit has of the 57 mm , which one would you buy? Does it make sense to buy the Gaggia and buy also all the mods from Shades of Coffee, when, with 100 more euros, the Lelit Grace has PID, pressure gauge and more? I'd apreciate very much your opinion! thanks, best regards!
Hi there! Honestly I think the Grace is the better choice. You get an integrated PID, which has been built into thousands of units (so it's been heavily tested), for less than what it would cost to retrofit a third party one on a GCP. The cup height is much better on the Grace, and it comes with a manometer. Also, the 3 buttons on the left and the manometer are illuminated, giving it a modern look. For me, it's a no brainer to go with the Grace over the GCP. Cheers!
@Tom's Coffee Corner Thanks Tom, you convinced me and that is also what I was guessing! I'll go for the Grace! Thanks, best regards and keep up with your nice videos, I like them very much, you have a very practical sense and they are always very rich!
can a standard 58mm basket fit the grace? e.g. the basket and handle from the bianca? thank you also about the shot counter can you program it to stop? as in 33s then it stops thank you
No, the Grace is 57mm, but her bigger sister, the Victoria is 58mm. I don't think you can program this machine to stop automatically. I would really suggest weighing out your shots anyhow.
@@TomsCoffeeCornerBeen a few months now. Absolutely love except that 57mm group head is quite pain in a when you try to find more accessories (toys) for it. So my honest comment is don’t buy it if you like trying different gadgets. It is absolutely perfect if you don’t. Like mention in video, I able to get what necessary, bottomless, basket, tamper, leveller. But not many option and hard to find
@@TomsCoffeeCorner this one looks a little flimsy compared to silvia, and that 57mm basket isn't great. Silvia is about 60 pounds cheaper in the uk but doesn't have a PID...
@@davidbudzynski9290 I wouldn't say this is flimsy. I like it's build over the Silvia honestly. Never liked the chipping off chrome paint of the brew group, and the tiny drip tray.
I ordered Grace today (mostly affected by your excellent review). Now seeing how complicated it is to adjust the OPV it almost makes me sorry for making a purchase. Far beyond my techical expertise
Here are some recommended PID settings from Lelit Insider: th-cam.com/video/AfPIOA8z19A/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Lelitinsider which you can access and adjust when you hold + and - buttons and start the machine. There can also be a TR option, which should show real temperature when set to 1.
Thanks for watching comments welcome! Product links in video description above.
Hi Tom. I also agree that you can make one quick video (for us who own Grace) to show us how to open and adjust OPV 😊 Thanks for that!
Bought several products made in Italy in the past, none of them impressed me in terms of quality and reliability, styling yes. From what I gather of your review above that confirms my belief.
What a fabulous review. I've had the machine close to 3 years and now I will change basket and portafilter and try to reduce the pressure.
Thank you Tom!!
Awesome! I think you'll really like the difference. The shots should get smoother. Cheers!
I own a Grace too and agree with your assessment, all in all it's a great machine for it's price tag.
One useful tip: when you go from steam mode back to coffee mode, leave the steam valve opened up and it will get you to the operational temperature a lot faster.
Acquista da sei mesi non ho ancora bevuto un caffè decente!😢
Just ordered the Grace online, thanks for the timely review
I think lelit machines are the best machines in the market
Best value for money
That's right! And hand-made in Italy, has its own charm, too.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner i do agree with you
Good honest review. I own the Kate and the pressure issue is the same - its really rubbish from Lelit setting the pressure so high on machines whilst making this so hard to reset
at home.
I really like the Germanish point of view of espressos.... so clean and objective! Congrats
Excellent review Tom, as usual. I especially liked the basket comparison and the info about adjusting the OPV. I have to wonder why some manufacturers still insist on shipping machines from the factory with such high pressure, when it's known to cause sub-par extractions and increase the chance of channeling. There's absolutely no downside to setting machines to 9 bar, even if in practice the pressure will be around 8 bar (which is probably even better in most cases). One theory I heard is that 11+ bar pressure is required for ESE pod compatibility, but who really buys a machine like this to use it with pods?
A couple of additional points:
1. The shot counter now counts up, but this is something that Lelit recently changed. Past models (I think up to about a year ago) counted down. If people are buying second hand, they should be aware of this.
2. I would much rather get a self-leveling tamper instead of a Lelit branded one. I think the self-leveling mechanism brings a real benefit that's worth paying a bit extra for. However finding one with a 57.35mm diameter is a bit of a challenge, but you can order a 58mm version from aliexpress and a 57.35mm custom base plate. I can add links to the relevant product pages if anyone is interested.
All in all, a very appealing machine. I don't own one (I use a Bianca V3 and a Flair 58), but if I had to recommend a machine to a friend at this budget, the Grace would be my pick over popular (but more feature-thin) options like the Rancilio Silvia and Gaggia Classic Pro.
Hi there! Yes, I have heard about the older models counting down. That seems really counter intuitive. Glad this one is updated (1.14 is the firmware). I really don't know why the OPV was set that high - I doubt anyone uses pods. I at least never have. It is too bad, that the accessories for 57mm are so few and far between. But, you might be able to unscrew this base, and put it on a Normcore self leveller for example. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Tom
Hi! Newbie, here. Would you mind sharing the links for your recommended self-leveling tamper and custom base plate for this machine? Thanks in advance for your help.
@@victorfonte Hi there! They are in the video description. But I will put them here, too:
►Lelit 57mm Bottomless OEM PF: geni.us/LelitBottomless57mm
►Lelit 57.35mm Tamper: geni.us/57_35mmTamper
►Lelit IMS 57mm Basket: geni.us/IMS_57mm_Basket
Thanks Tom, you nailed it in this video, covered everything I am looking for in the machine
With my PL81T I use a rubber funnel permanently located in position. Very convinient.
About opv setting, I initially set blind 8.5. I finlly changed it to blind 9. I think it works better.
Thanks to steam mode, possible to hack and play with pressure if wished. Initial setting to 9, gives you more range.
My Grace has manufactured in March 2022, and has a pressure setup at 9 bars. I was really supprised and glad that I don't need to open the machine 😊
Awesome! Glad for you, that yours was already calibrated. :)
Yes, I put the comment here for those planning to purchase Grace, to look for the newer date.
Confirmed. Mine was made 01/22 and is set little bit over 9 bars.
I bought this machine (the Victoria version bc the Grace was out of stock) and we couldn't be happier. The espresso is delicious, and the machine is easy to operate. We did upgrade our baskets (although we still can't pull shots with a bottomless portafilter since it's too hard to get super fresh beans where we live). Highly recommend! We have this paired with the Eureka Silenzio grinder.
Awesome, sounds like a great combo! Have fun experimenting. :)
I got now the chance to buy this Maschine from a colleague. Really looking forward to the first cappuccino 😊
For the Lelit Elizabeth it's possible to change the LCC display to show the actual boiler temperature in the advanced menu. I'd assume the same would be the case for this model. Dave Corbey has some videos on changing the setting with the elizabeth
Thanks for that tip! I am watching a video from him about it now! Cheers!
Unfortunately it does not work with Gace despite they allegedly share the same electronics - must be a firmware problem then.
On point review, as usual. 👏
Please make a separate video about adjusting the OPV
I will have to do that soon! I am at 8.5 bar right now - want to bump that up to 9. I think I will make a video showing that, along with the advanced LCC settings.
Hey, here you have video about adjusting OPV in Victoria: th-cam.com/video/KVtpmOQSrJQ/w-d-xo.html
It’s nearly the same.
I did it couple days ago. You need definitely lighter and good screw. Be patient. Set OPV at 9,6-9,7 using blind basket. During extraction you will get ~9,0 bars (it depends on flow rate unfortunately). Also bought IMS basket. Finally espresso tastes really good 😊.
@@przemyslaws.702 Thanks for the link! I ended up using a lighter and adjusting it. It didn't work without the lighter trick!
are you planning on getting the profitec go soon?
I reached out to Profitec to try getting a loaner unit, but I never heard back from them. I will be honest, these videos only very rarely sell machines through affiliate links, so the Go would be a large purchase for me, that likely wouldn't amortize itself. Subsequently, I am still waiting for them to reach out to me, and maybe loan me a model for a review. :) Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you very much for your answer :) I looked at the "go" lately due to it's good critics it receives but I was hoping to get your idea of it as well.
@TomsCoffeeCorner are you German? They should send you a Profitec Go for a review! I don't believe this machine is available in USA
@@tagheuer02 Not german, but I am currently in Germany. I'd be open to it!
Tom, you may also try to change the shower screen - I've bought an IMS screen and it was a game changer for me. Among others, the shot became much less prone to channeling. By the way, maybe they put different baskets, mine were not so horrible (I've bought the machine a year ago), but I've changed them to Ascaso and, honestly speaking, i feel no big difference apart from a bit different flow rate.
I didn't know IMS made a shower screen for these - thanks for that tip!
Thanks for this super detailed video! I have a question, when you turn it on and it heats up, is the PID gauge calibrated to the current temperature?
Because on mine, the gauge become fully charged and the PID displays my desired temperature (95 degrees) but continues to flash for a few minutes before displaying OK and stopping flashing. So I was wondering if the PID was properly calibrated/broken or if it was just a detail.
Tom, you were talking about setting the OPV to 8.5 bars. Did you set this pressure with a blind basket, or this is the real world pressure with coffee? There's about 0.5 bar difference between them. By the way, I managed to turn the OPV screw without heating it. They say EU versions of the machines are mostly unglued.
Hi Piotr, I did it with the blind disc. I might raise it to 9 bar, but even it it's actually 8 bar, it's doing a good job. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you!
What possible reason is there for using 57mm? Product segmentation?
Good question, I don't really know.
would you offer link for the IMS basket of lelit 81T , i want buy it,thanks....
Hi there, it's in the video description. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner what's big difference original and IMS ? drink ? smell ?
Hi,
I am a new owner of this lovely machine but I can't make such a nice cappuccino... I don't know how fine to grind the beans!? I am using Baraza sette 270 wi and I feel difficult to get the exact coarse to make like this espresso? Can you please advise me? Thank you
Thank you for the review Tom. I need your help please: Currently have a Gaggia Classic Evo since for only 4 months, bought brand new but have the already known "boilergate" issue, completely lost my confidence in the brand so I'm decided to switch to Lelit. I have 3 options: Anna (PL41TEM), Grace (PL81T) or Victoria (PL91T), Anna is 500 Euros, Grace is 650 Euros and Victoria 750 Euros. I know Anna is the oldest out here but read only good reviews about it and honestly I might be wrong but have a feeling that the quality of the important components was better in the past. So, which of the 3 do you think I should get? Other than 57mm vs 58mm what is the difference between Grace and Victoria? I rarely use the steam function, 99% of time drinking only espresso. PS: I'll use it with my current Eureka Mignon Specialita. HUGE Thank you for your help!!!😀
Howdy! Of those 3, I like the Grace. The Victoria has a 300ml vs 250ml boiler and a 58mm PF, otherwise they're the same. I find the Anna machine fugly. But I like looking at the Grace. Cheers!
Is there any other advantage with the victoria over this, other than getting 58mm portafilter?
No, the other other thing is that the Victoria has a 300ml vs 250ml boiler.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner ok, thanks for the quick answer!
Hi Tom, also wondering why no preinfusion. Naybe you can show us how to get a better shot wirhout adjusting the OPV? Not all of us can fiddle with machines.
I also recently got the Lelit Grace
It was a pain in the butt, and I stripped the OPV screw a bit. I could do a video about it, if enough people are interested.
I turned off the pre-infusion as I was doing tests for a grinder, and I wanted straight output from the shot timer.
Hi Tom, thanks for the great reviews you are making :)
I am currently starting to get into the art of espresso making and am a bit lost between all the machines but am very much into the asthetics of the Lelit machines.
Between the Grace and the Glenda which one would you recommend for a beginner?
Grace, Grace, Grace! The Grace looks way nicer in my opinion, has a much nicer user interface, and illuminated buttons. So it's cooler. But technically they are both quite similar, just that the Glenda has a 58mm portaftiler and a 300ml vs 250ml boiler. The Grace at it's price-point is in my opinion unbeatable.
Hi Tom :) Thanks a lot for a deep review. One day it can be a replacement for my GC. One question though - any reason why you turned off preinfusion?
Hi there! I just was doing some grinder trials, and wanted the straight output from the shot timer.
Thanks for another excellent & informative video. I started looking into buying a first home espresso "kit" last week and continue to come across your content -- really appreciate it. I wonder if you would be willing to give advice as to which machine you would prefer for a sub €600 - this, or the Bambino, or Gaggia? I feel completely lost in a sea of products. Cheers - Alex from Sweden.
Hey Alex! Of those, I really like the Grace the best. Grace and GCP both offer good build quality and components. Grace offers manometer, PID and adjustable OPV, so for the extra money, I would certainly recommend it over the GCP. People end up adding a PID to the GCP later, and that costs another $150-200 to retrofit.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks so much for the reply - keep up the great work!
Hi Tom, what was the pressure when pulling shot?
8.5 bar
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Ok, my Lelit PL92T was set to around 8,8, but when pulling shot the pressure was 7,8-8 & the result is ok
I think I might like it.
Oh, I betcha would, don't cha know?!
Thanks for the nice review Tom! My old Sage Barista Express is about to reach its life cycle after 5 years and i want to go a step further with a new maschine. Can you tell if there is much of a difference between Grace and Victoria? The price difference is quite big, about 200 Euros.
Hi there! I prefer the Grace because it's cheaper, and has a 250ml boiler, instead of the 300ml one in the Victoria. That makes the Grace slightly quicker to heat up. I also don't mind the 57mm, since Lelit makes some perfect accessories for it. They're in the video description if you're curious. Hope that helps!
it's about the 58mm that is basically standard in proper espresso machines, so you will have access to a lot more aftermarket parts. If you're happy with it out of the box (besides the plastic tamper that comes with it) I think the Grace is offering a good value for money (I own one as well). Not sure if the Victoria is offering the most competitive package in its price band.
Hm... I see due to black week the victoria is now a little cheaper. It's very similar I think, but has a 58mm portafilter.
Hey Tom. I currently looking for an entry Espresso Machine. Im thinking inbetween the Grace or the older Glenda. What would you prefer? :) Really looking forward for your Answer!
I like the Grace or Victoria much more than the older Glenda. The aesthetics are wwaaaaayyyy better.
thx for the review! your vids helped me to get way more out of my old dedica but i guess now its time to move on:)
i hava an opportunity to buy a returned PL91T. they seem super similar, tho on paper victoria seems better:
- 250 ml vs 300 ml
- 1000 W vs 1200 W
- 57 mm vs 58 mm group
- 7,4 kg vs 9,2 kg (i guess more stability:)
are you aware of any downsides of PL91T? any advice?
The only downside of the Victoria over the Grace is that the boiler will be slightly more laggy in getting back down to espresso temp after steaming, would be my guess, since the boiler is 25% larger. Cheers!
Unfortunately you didn´t talk about the pressure. For me it is hardly possible to reach 8 bars. If I grind the coffee finer to get 8 bar or more, it just drips. What can I do?
Hi Tom, thanks to your detailed review(s) I went ahead and bought a Victoria - wanted to stay at the 58mm standarts - but after I making a double shot, I steam my milk at about 140C degrees, so far so good, but when I want to make another double shot, I have to wait like 10 mins before the machine cools down to about 95C. During this period the pump runs briefly for 5-10 seconds once at the beginning and then it's simply just waiting. Do you think this waiting time is normal? Thank you!
I would suggest just purging some water through the brew group, to get that temp to stabilize more quickly. Cheers!
Hello, I'm from Indonesia, in my country it's very difficult to get this coffee machine at a low price, also with accessories. by the way how did you get the 57mm portafilter ring?
Hi there! The PF ring is actually a 58mm. But it fits well enough for the Grace. Cheers!
Not really the price at the moment is around 11 million Rupias
A quick Internet search seems to indicate that the Grace is not available in the USA, the next one more expensive is, the Victoria, which at $1k is a little out of my price range. I'm sad....
I am not sure why they don't sell more models in the USA...but maybe they will soon enough, since Lelit has become part of the Breville group.
Is it not available in US?
It doesn't seem like it right now...I know the bigger sister, the Victoria is however.
Hallo Tom, danke für das ausführliche Review. Ich versuche mich gerade zwischen der neuen Gaggia Classic Evo (Modell 2023, wobei sich die Neuerungen in Grenzen halten) und der Lelit Grace zu entscheiden. Wie es aussieht muss man wohl bei beiden den Druck anpassen, wobei es bei der Gaggia deutlich leichter für handwerklich Unbegabte zu sein scheint. Danke für den Hinweis, dass nicht die tatsächliche Temperatur angezeigt wird. Wenn das PID nur die ausgewählte Temperatur anzeigt stellt sich mir die Frage, ob dann auch einigermaßen zuverlässig die eingestellte Temperatur unten rauskommt. Hast du das genauer kontrolliert? Sonst wäre das PID ja ziemlich sinnlos und damit ein wichtiges Alleinstellungsmerkmal praktisch wertlos. Beste Grüße.
Servus Jan! Die Grace is viel besser, meine Meinung nach. Da ist das PID schon integriert, man bekommt ein Manometer, ein grössere Boiler, und viel mehr. Das Design ist moderner dazu. Außerdem, bekommst du viel mehr Platz für die Tassen. Die GCP hat wenig Raum für höhere Tassen. Das OPV ist zugegeben nicht so leicht zu justieren, aber ich mache noch ein Video drüber, dann ist es gut dokumentiert. Man kann auch die aktuelle Temperature anzeigen, es ist ein Setting in den fortgeschrittene Menü. Das werde ich wohl auch mit einem Video zeigen. Schöne Grüße! Tom
PS - man bekommt mit der Lelit auch ein Messing Boiler, statt Alu wie bei GCP.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Danke für die Hinweise der Platz ist natürlich auch noch ein Argument, ich wünsche Dir noch ein schönes Wochenende!
great review! Unfortunately it seems to be pretty hard to get this machine at a decent price right now, for whatever reason its either out of stock or above 800€
Which market are you in? I might sell mine, since I have too many, lol.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner im in Germany - you had the 57mm version though right? :/
Hello Tom! I need your advice, please! I sold my specialista Arte to buy a Gaggia classic Pro (Neo), but now I saw this Lelit Grace, which is only more 100 euros or less then the Gaggia. Besides the con Lelit has of the 57 mm , which one would you buy? Does it make sense to buy the Gaggia and buy also all the mods from Shades of Coffee, when, with 100 more euros, the Lelit Grace has PID, pressure gauge and more? I'd apreciate very much your opinion! thanks, best regards!
Hi there! Honestly I think the Grace is the better choice. You get an integrated PID, which has been built into thousands of units (so it's been heavily tested), for less than what it would cost to retrofit a third party one on a GCP. The cup height is much better on the Grace, and it comes with a manometer. Also, the 3 buttons on the left and the manometer are illuminated, giving it a modern look. For me, it's a no brainer to go with the Grace over the GCP. Cheers!
@Tom's Coffee Corner Thanks Tom, you convinced me and that is also what I was guessing! I'll go for the Grace! Thanks, best regards and keep up with your nice videos, I like them very much, you have a very practical sense and they are always very rich!
@@joaopontespereira7589 Thanks so much for the feedback! I think you'll quite like this machine.
Lelit Grace PL81T or Rancilio silvia is best buy ?
Well, the Grace has a PID and manometer, so I'd say the Grace. Cheers!
Is this an upgrade to Delonghi EC885?
I should say so, in pretty much all ways: espresso, milk steaming, adjustable OPV, and manometer. But it also costs 4x the Dedica in Europe. Cheers!
Thanks Tom, keep up the good work :)
grace vs glenda in your opinion?
I like the Grace better, becuase it's so much more pleasing to look at. But the Glenda is 58mm, in case that's important to you.
Can't get this in usa?
I don't know - anyone in the USA got this Grace?
can a standard 58mm basket fit the grace? e.g. the basket and handle from the bianca? thank you also about the shot counter can you program it to stop? as in 33s then it stops thank you
No, the Grace is 57mm, but her bigger sister, the Victoria is 58mm. I don't think you can program this machine to stop automatically. I would really suggest weighing out your shots anyhow.
Just pull the trigger for this after watching.
Very nice - I think you'll quite like it!
@@TomsCoffeeCornerBeen a few months now. Absolutely love except that 57mm group head is quite pain in a when you try to find more accessories (toys) for it. So my honest comment is don’t buy it if you like trying different gadgets. It is absolutely perfect if you don’t.
Like mention in video, I able to get what necessary, bottomless, basket, tamper, leveller. But not many option and hard to find
Agreed - thanks for posting!@@edmondhung6097
Do you consider this machine is an upgrade from Delonghi dedica?
Haha, yes. Heated brew group, settable PID temp control, settable OPV pressure, manometer...lots to like about this machine.
This one or rancilio silvia?🤔
This one. :)
@@TomsCoffeeCorner this one looks a little flimsy compared to silvia, and that 57mm basket isn't great. Silvia is about 60 pounds cheaper in the uk but doesn't have a PID...
@@davidbudzynski9290 I wouldn't say this is flimsy. I like it's build over the Silvia honestly. Never liked the chipping off chrome paint of the brew group, and the tiny drip tray.
What watch is that?
Hi! It's a Casio GA 2100: amzn.to/43i8Ptf
Ma serve un portafiltro particolare per avere un caffè cremoso e decente?
I do feel the IMS basket gives way better results than the included one.
(00:57) Tom just triggered about $5M worth of IMS portafilter basket sales... at least. 😅 ... 👍
Haha, you never know. I do really enjoy the IMS baskets, in all the machines I use. Plus, I love supporting products made in Italy.
Nice
I ordered Grace today (mostly affected by your excellent review). Now seeing how complicated it is to adjust the OPV it almost makes me sorry for making a purchase. Far beyond my techical expertise
Well, test it first. I have heard from multiple people that their OPV was factory set to 11 bar. If you need a tutorial, I could make one.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner i fucked up ajusting my opv, ordered new one to replace, that seems even harder. disappointed with the purchase :(
This ma hine is about 1,500$ or more USA why so different oversea price?
Because I guess they can get the price in the USA, sadly. Cheers!
745€ уже стоит, 2 года назад около 500 покупал
Here are some recommended PID settings from Lelit Insider: th-cam.com/video/AfPIOA8z19A/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Lelitinsider which you can access and adjust when you hold + and - buttons and start the machine. There can also be a TR option, which should show real temperature when set to 1.
Thanks for posting that tip!
Wow. That stock basket is horrible. The manufacturer should replace them!
This machine is "out of stock" in the US market
It's a shame, because I think Lelit would clean house with this machine at like $599. I think Clive Coffee used to carry it...
Too bad it's now over 800€...