I'm a Piano technician myself, I appreciate how Josh asks such great questions. Josh is amazing at what he does but also so humble,nand he doesn't pretend that he knows it all. He would ask the tech "How would you go about doing that?". Amazing series!
Fascinating topic! I got very interested in the science of piano action when I got my brand new grand piano. A few points resonated with my findings: 1- the lead only reduces the static down weight, but actually adds to the dynamic down weight due to increasing the moment of inertia. The static weight is what you feel when pressing the keys infinitesimally slowly. However, the faster the piece the more mass one needs to move in a heavily leaded key and the keys would feel like a brick. 2- the balancing act between down weight and up weight. 3- before addressing any weight issue one first needs to eliminate excessive friction. On my piano, which was already thoroughly regulated at the factory, the middle key pin holes were in dire need of easing. This is to be expected on a new piano due to having acclimated to the higher moisture when taken out of the crate. They deliberately do not loosen in the factory as tightening is more difficult. 4- I was surprised to hear that Hyrum suggested the down weight norm is around mid 40s. On my piano the base is consistently around 60gr with the sustain pedal down. I am very interested to hear how Josh managed to reduce the down weight on his piano. Anyhow, thanks Josh and Hyrum for putting up such informative content.
This series is so great. Hyrum is such a pro, and Josh, you always jump in at just the right moment with questions for him. Looking forward to the next installation!
It is great! The best presentation about piano action I have seen. Every pianist should have the knowledge and understanding of piano technology (many don’t). Thank you for doing this.
In the early 1930s pianist and inventor Josef Hofmann began working with the engineers at Steinway to design and build an improved piano action. One of the improvements they came up with was to put a semicircular piece of wood on the balance rail under each key lever. By doing this, they key lever would roll when the key was pressed instead of just pivoting on a pin. This greatly reduced the friction of the keys. There were also some other improvements, and the new action was called the “Steinway accelerated action”. It was faster and more responsive than any grand piano action up to that time, and it repeated 13% faster than Steinway’s previous actions. The first production Steinway accelerated action left the factory in 1931 It was autographed by Theodore E. Steinway, and it was played and autographed by Josef Hofmann. By mid 1932 Steinway pianos with accelerated actions were being widely distributed to Steinway dealers and their customers. The accelerated action was in use for many decades. It should also be pointed out that not only the weight of the keys but also the key dip and the let off point have a large effect on how the piano feels when it is being played.
interesting!! Greetings from Germany! You know strangely I can play this song on a Grand Piano smoothly and fast, but on my Clavinova Digital piano it was so tiring and a bit impossible, the keys down need 90 grams to go down! I bought an MP7se that has a better action but even if it's not better, I know that a Digital will never be the same as an acoustic but I rent and I have no option to continue training more than a digital, do you know of someone that responds that quickly and doesn't be so heavy? Why will digitals be so heavy? if the acoustic ones are not really? you mention not only the weight and it is real!! I looked at Kawai's ca99 wooden action with a longer key and improved pivot point but I have not tried them, I would appreciate your guidance 😊
@@van_dylan 90 grams is way too heavy for a piano action. The action on a good concert grand piano will have a down weight between 40 and 50 grams. The treble keys will be a bit lighter than the bass keys. For a digital/electronic piano I prefer Kawai. Their "grand feel 3" weighted action feels similar to a real acoustic piano action. The CA99 has been replaced by the CA901, which has some added features but still has the grand feel 3 action. If you are willing to spend more money, then I would recommend Kawai's Novus hybrid digital pianos. They have an actual acoustic grand piano action that controls the electronic piano through optical sensors. Their best hybrid digital piano is the Novus NV5S. It will have all the features of a digital piano, but it will respond and feel like an acoustic concert grand piano. I don't know what the pricing and availability in Germany would be.
First of all, sorry for my English but it is not my mother tongue, thanks for your contribution! is very good! I want to ask you a question, I am a professional keyboard player with more than 20 years of experience, I have generally played Jazz, Salsa and Classical genres. Usually on upright pianos or heavy keyed pianos, but sometimes I played something on some grand pianos and the keys felt so light playing fast passages effortlessly, surely I don't have a grand piano like you. Not long ago I bought a clavinova from the 90's, I spent hours playing during ý Jazz, Improvisation, Liszt, The flight of the bumblebee and rondo alla turca at the speed of Lang Lang, I had never noticed excessive fatigue in my hands :/, I ended up tired and As you say in your video, I missed a very light action. I measured the weight of my piano and it has the amount of 75 grams down and 35 up in all the keys! It doesn't even have the graduated keyboard, it's still a Hammer effect, not even GHS, so I went to try a Yamaha YDP 615 and I noticed that it's not that heavy but I calculate that maybe about 60 grams in the center. I tried the CLP 725 and I don't know how much weight it was but it felt very light. Indeed, for slower and softer repertoire you prefer heavier keys but I play very fast repertoire and I don't want to injure myself even though my technique is good. I read an interesting article about the injuries that pianists suffer from playing fast repertoire in super heavy keys. I was surprised that you also want about 40 in the low end and a little less in the higher ranges. In reality I have 4 questions, you who play the grand piano all the time. 1. Because if the standard is about 50. 20 grams the e pianos are manufactured by yamaha, kawai etc in their models for beginners with such heavy actions? 2. Should I, if I can perform an advanced and fast repertoire well and with good dynamics, buy such a heavy action or should the softer one be better for me to switch to grand piano in the future? 3.Have you seen lang lang how fast he plays, I suppose his piano is personalized in weights to be able to play like that without so much fatigue? I can't imagine him playing like that with weights of almost 80 Grams! 4. I read in that article about a famous Polish pianist who was also a minister who went to the USA to represent Steiwan and son's and the action became so heavy that he couldn't do it well, he was used to European light pianos and Steiwan gave him I customize pianos to its own weight of keys, obviously I cannot customize the weight of an e piano, but would you recommend the lighter action as advanced and difficult and fast repertoire? Why did I get so confused when I read that they recommend the heaviest action to deal with any piano, what is the truth in that and to what degree to avoid injuries? Thank you very much and greetings from Heidelberg Germany🇩🇪🙏🏻 🙂 I subscribed to your channel
Steinway does the basic setup and testing at the factory. Their reasoning is that a local technician will adjust and customize the piano for each individual customer. When my Steinway Spirio concert grand was delivered to my home, Steinway flew one of their best technicians to where I live and set him up in a hotel. For two days he regulated, voiced and setup my piano exactly the way I wanted it. The result was a piano that has a wonderful sound, and I truly enjoy playing. The best piano "out of the box" directly from the factory is unquestionably Fazioli. Mr. Fazioli himself came to my home and autographed my Fazioli 10-foot concert grand. It is a fabulous instrument.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a Piano technician myself, I appreciate how Josh asks such great questions. Josh is amazing at what he does but also so humble,nand he doesn't pretend that he knows it all. He would ask the tech "How would you go about doing that?". Amazing series!
Fascinating topic! I got very interested in the science of piano action when I got my brand new grand piano. A few points resonated with my findings:
1- the lead only reduces the static down weight, but actually adds to the dynamic down weight due to increasing the moment of inertia. The static weight is what you feel when pressing the keys infinitesimally slowly. However, the faster the piece the more mass one needs to move in a heavily leaded key and the keys would feel like a brick.
2- the balancing act between down weight and up weight.
3- before addressing any weight issue one first needs to eliminate excessive friction. On my piano, which was already thoroughly regulated at the factory, the middle key pin holes were in dire need of easing. This is to be expected on a new piano due to having acclimated to the higher moisture when taken out of the crate. They deliberately do not loosen in the factory as tightening is more difficult.
4- I was surprised to hear that Hyrum suggested the down weight norm is around mid 40s. On my piano the base is consistently around 60gr with the sustain pedal down.
I am very interested to hear how Josh managed to reduce the down weight on his piano. Anyhow, thanks Josh and Hyrum for putting up such informative content.
I love geeking out about pianos, even if I might never own one this is endlessly entertaining to me.
So happy to hear you’re enjoying it!
This series is so great. Hyrum is such a pro, and Josh, you always jump in at just the right moment with questions for him. Looking forward to the next installation!
Thank you! So glad you’re enjoying the series
It is great! The best presentation about piano action I have seen. Every pianist should have the knowledge and understanding of piano technology (many don’t). Thank you for doing this.
Excellent program and series. Thank you.
In the early 1930s pianist and inventor Josef Hofmann began working with the engineers at Steinway to design and build an improved piano action. One of the improvements they came up with was to put a semicircular piece of wood on the balance rail under each key lever. By doing this, they key lever would roll when the key was pressed instead of just pivoting on a pin. This greatly reduced the friction of the keys. There were also some other improvements, and the new action was called the “Steinway accelerated action”. It was faster and more responsive than any grand piano action up to that time, and it repeated 13% faster than Steinway’s previous actions. The first production Steinway accelerated action left the factory in 1931 It was autographed by Theodore E. Steinway, and it was played and autographed by Josef Hofmann. By mid 1932 Steinway pianos with accelerated actions were being widely distributed to Steinway dealers and their customers. The accelerated action was in use for many decades.
It should also be pointed out that not only the weight of the keys but also the key dip and the let off point have a large effect on how the piano feels when it is being played.
interesting!! Greetings from Germany! You know strangely I can play this song on a Grand Piano smoothly and fast, but on my Clavinova Digital piano it was so tiring and a bit impossible, the keys down need 90 grams to go down! I bought an MP7se that has a better action but even if it's not better, I know that a Digital will never be the same as an acoustic but I rent and I have no option to continue training more than a digital, do you know of someone that responds that quickly and doesn't be so heavy? Why will digitals be so heavy? if the acoustic ones are not really? you mention not only the weight and it is real!! I looked at Kawai's ca99 wooden action with a longer key and improved pivot point but I have not tried them, I would appreciate your guidance 😊
@@van_dylan 90 grams is way too heavy for a piano action. The action on a good concert grand piano will have a down weight between 40 and 50 grams. The treble keys will be a bit lighter than the bass keys. For a digital/electronic piano I prefer Kawai. Their "grand feel 3" weighted action feels similar to a real acoustic piano action. The CA99 has been replaced by the CA901, which has some added features but still has the grand feel 3 action. If you are willing to spend more money, then I would recommend Kawai's Novus hybrid digital pianos. They have an actual acoustic grand piano action that controls the electronic piano through optical sensors. Their best hybrid digital piano is the Novus NV5S. It will have all the features of a digital piano, but it will respond and feel like an acoustic concert grand piano. I don't know what the pricing and availability in Germany would be.
Can you explain the difference between a non-accelerated Steinway action and an accelerated Steinway action?
First of all, sorry for my English but it is not my mother tongue, thanks for your contribution! is very good! I want to ask you a question, I am a professional keyboard player with more than 20 years of experience, I have generally played Jazz, Salsa and Classical genres.
Usually on upright pianos or heavy keyed pianos, but sometimes I played something on some grand pianos and the keys felt so light playing fast passages effortlessly, surely I don't have a grand piano like you.
Not long ago I bought a clavinova from the 90's, I spent hours playing during ý Jazz, Improvisation, Liszt, The flight of the bumblebee and rondo alla turca at the speed of Lang Lang, I had never noticed excessive fatigue in my hands :/, I ended up tired and As you say in your video, I missed a very light action.
I measured the weight of my piano and it has the amount of 75 grams down and 35 up in all the keys! It doesn't even have the graduated keyboard, it's still a Hammer effect, not even GHS, so I went to try a Yamaha YDP 615 and I noticed that it's not that heavy but I calculate that maybe about 60 grams in the center.
I tried the CLP 725 and I don't know how much weight it was but it felt very light.
Indeed, for slower and softer repertoire you prefer heavier keys but I play very fast repertoire and I don't want to injure myself even though my technique is good.
I read an interesting article about the injuries that pianists suffer from playing fast repertoire in super heavy keys.
I was surprised that you also want about 40 in the low end and a little less in the higher ranges.
In reality I have 4 questions, you who play the grand piano all the time.
1. Because if the standard is about 50. 20 grams the e pianos are manufactured by yamaha, kawai etc in their models for beginners with such heavy actions?
2.
Should I, if I can perform an advanced and fast repertoire well and with good dynamics, buy such a heavy action or should the softer one be better for me to switch to grand piano in the future?
3.Have you seen lang lang how fast he plays, I suppose his piano is personalized in weights to be able to play like that without so much fatigue? I can't imagine him playing like that with weights of almost 80 Grams!
4. I read in that article about a famous Polish pianist who was also a minister who went to the USA to represent Steiwan and son's and the action became so heavy that he couldn't do it well, he was used to European light pianos and Steiwan gave him I customize pianos to its own weight of keys, obviously I cannot customize the weight of an e piano, but would you recommend the lighter action as advanced and difficult and fast repertoire? Why did I get so confused when I read that they recommend the heaviest action to deal with any piano, what is the truth in that and to what degree to avoid injuries?
Thank you very much and greetings from Heidelberg Germany🇩🇪🙏🏻
🙂
I subscribed to your channel
Why isn't this done at the factory?
Steinway does the basic setup and testing at the factory. Their reasoning is that a local technician will adjust and customize the piano for each individual customer. When my Steinway Spirio concert grand was delivered to my home, Steinway flew one of their best technicians to where I live and set him up in a hotel. For two days he regulated, voiced and setup my piano exactly the way I wanted it. The result was a piano that has a wonderful sound, and I truly enjoy playing. The best piano "out of the box" directly from the factory is unquestionably Fazioli. Mr. Fazioli himself came to my home and autographed my Fazioli 10-foot concert grand. It is a fabulous instrument.
Yeah