Try the Cyberiad and the Star Diaries by Lem also. Those are arguably even better than Solaris, though they are short story collections. Also, if you want something really bug-nuts, try the Futurological Congress.
I just grabbed “The Palace of Eternity” because I liked your reaction to it. It can join the TBR, which is basically into the year 2535 at this point. I do love books. We’ve been so utterly swamped caring for my ailing FIL that I don’t get to read or write like I’d like to. But your reviews and enthusiasm for SF books, along with Moid and the Outlaw have really sustained me lately. Thanks!
Dig the videos and subscribed today. My partner (who is a professional writer, mostly comics but she has written two novels) and I stumbled on your top 15 video earlier this week and I wanted to drop you a line about our reaction to that video and some of the others we have watched. As people in our mid-40's we have found we no longer read novels. I personally haven't read anything that wasn't non-fiction in a number of years. Your videos have inspired both of us to find time to dedicate to reading fiction in our daily lives. Thank you for that. Looking forward to your reaction to Roadside Picnic as it is a book that has lived on my shelf for nearly 10 years and I love the movie.
Your description of the protagonist/attitude in the Zelazny book, and the Heinlein one you'd mentioned, perfectly articulates my experience trying one of the Flashman books. Really, it's a feeling I've had with so many books, and also experience with a lot of shows/movies, but in trying to describe this feeling to others I haven't been able to explain in a cogent way. So, thank you for how well you've encapsulated this.
“Packs a giant punch disproportionate to its length” is, to me, the essence of Bob Shaw if you could sum up what works so well - and you did, I’m just repeating it because I like it so much. This is so much what I thought in 1987, having read every Bob Shaw book I could get ahold of 1984-1986, that when The Ragged Astronauts came out in paperback, I thought “what do you need this many pages for?! I’m worried that this latest one is triple the normal Bob Shaw length…he never needs to tell a long story - please, no bloating!”. Shaw tells 400 page stories in 200 pages or less, and it’s amazing what he can get done, where others stretch it out. I recently re-read Orbitsville after 38 years - I almost never re-read - and yes, I see flaws that 16 year old me rode right over…one of them perhaps being “okay, it does maybe move a little *too* fast, maybe needed a few more pages”. But, even then, I came out of it feeling “but it’s still incredible that this can work so well, in 187 pages”. I may dig out my copy of The Palace of Eternity, due to your enthusiasm; I like the book too, but I would need a re-read to turn distant memories into opinion…though this re-read stuff is dangerous, because I would say Orbitsville is now my third favourite SF novel, not my first, and I knew that might happen having found Blindsight, and The Color of Distance in the interim. Orbitsville will always be my Sentimental Favorite. My next Bob Shaw re-read will be Other Days, Other Eyes, and with a new perspective on Orbitsville - which I still love and I wish you had handy - Outlaw Bookseller may just be right: Other Days, Other Eyes may be the more outstanding work. And incidentally, The Ragged Astronauts, IMO, did emerge as top of the heap, despite the shocking length for a Bob Shaw book. Also recommended, when it comes to grappling with perceptions of your taste: A Wreath of Stars.
I think Shaw, despite being sui generis, is proof that excellent novel writing rarely needs over 250 pages to produce muscular works of genius that are intensely readable. The average novel now is 100 pages longer than it would have been in 1980: the bloating process began in the 70s when publishers started pushing writers to produce longer books because readers wanted 'value' and there had been 3 major bestsellers in the 60s which were huge - 'Dune', 'LOTR' and 'Stranger in a Strange Land'. Obviously, there have been long novels since 'Don Quixote' (arguably the first modern novel), but they were exceptions to the rule. I'd say 'Blood Music' is better than 'Eon' because it's shorter and more direct in its paradigm shift and conceptual breakthrough. Good to see another big Shaw fan here!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I saw it happen in the late 1970s, early 1980s - and my test case was Ed McBain. All his novels suddenly became longer; in the 1950s and 1960s - even early 1970s - Ed McBain could write a tight Crime novel and get so much done in under 200 pages. And his books sat on shelves where most of the competition was also just as thin. Then something happened. The word is that the public started clamouring for the longer novel, even among genre reads. A 160 page noir novel was not in fashion anymore. And, to a degree, I’ll buy that tastes had changed. But I have another theory: books were becoming pricier and pricier. Inflation pushed the price of books up and up…and books under 200 pages looked, well, more expensive. But prices don’t go down - so I think it became like a bag of potato chips: the price has ballooned, the public will notice that something that was twenty-five cents (sorry, I know local currency), has gone to forty cents, to seventy-five cents, to, well, eventually up to two dollars. So, you make the package a bit bigger, and the price sneaks up to a lot bigger. I think potato chips (sorry, local food talk) and books got the same treatment - and we got trained to reject the 160 page novel that would now be a twenty dollar trade paperback. Better to market lots of twenty-five dollar 350 page trade paperbacks, and re-train readers. I think even when Bob Shaw wrote The Ragged Astronauts he was told to make it longer.
@@sethball2475 -Yes, he was also probably told to write a trilogy. I read all three books and found volumes 2 and 3 pretty superfluous. These days in Creative Writing course in the UK, students are taught to write longer books to 'suit the market'. Betselling authors who no publisher would think of editing for fear of upsetting (such as King and Rowling) are also to blame, for as soon as they realised they could avoid editing, they produced bloated works. The FAntasy boom that started in 77, after which everything was a trilogy or longer has also affected SF, which should be about the fresh instead of the more of the same. Sad, right?
Shaw was one of the writers from back in the day who could write a really solid and weighty book at under 300 pages. Lots of writers in the 50s and 60s could pull this off. Gordon R Dickson could do this, Alfred Beater did this too.
I have picked up several new books because of your reviews. Som of them I had never heard about before. Also I really like this format of presenting the books. I'd say you are my favorite booktuber now.
That Simak book sounds a lot like another one of his I’m about to finish, Time and Again, which is mind blowing. It’s the first Simak I’ve read so I don’t know if this is par for the course, but his descriptions of emotions and feelings in it are some of the most beautiful prose I’ve ever read. Cool, mind bending concept, good protagonist, and little to no quips (even though I love me a good quip every once in a while)! Once you get through the 100, I’d recommend it to you whole-heartedly and with my reputation as collateral :)
Simak is the ruralist of scifi. He never seemed to care about what the mainstream of scifi was into. His concerns were people, and the big ideas were there to show how advances impact the little people most SF writers forget about.
I always look forward to your reviews because I know they'll be objective and well-explained, avoiding spoilers while letting us know if the books are worth reading or not. It seems in sci-fi that a lot of authors, even the "masters," can be hit-or-miss, so it's very helpful, especially with some of their more obscure novels, to get an honest opinion. I recently got "Roadside Picnic" and was glad to hear that you're reading it, I'll be especially interested in that review.
That was a phenomenal synopsis of eon and your reading experience. You balance to the pros and cons exceptionally well and I haven't read it for decades but I know what I'm getting into when I tackle a reread. Thanks again for your commentary and wonderful channel.
Dang now I have to reach for some Bob Shaw that has been sitting on my shelf and ignored for almost a decade. But that's the point of your channel to expose us to wonderful experiences so thank you again.
It’s tough navigating book buying in an on-line world when everyone is putting out self-published stuff as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to do these videos. I look forward to them.
You give a good impression of the books. Big fan of both Zelazny and Simak; neither of these books are among my favorites, either. I do like some of Zelazny's lighter books like Roadmarks and Doorways in the Sand, but if I'm not in the mood his 'trickster' books do come off as smug.
Super reviews, thanks. Watching this one made me think again of Bob Shaw who somehow never made the informal canon of the authorial "greats" but I recall very much enjoying when I was in my most voracious SF reading years. It's been a long time since I read his books, though, and most of the plot details have slipped my mind, apart from the collection of linked short stories, "Other Days, Other Eyes" which to me is as an almost perfect example of the way good science fiction can take an apparently simple concept and push it and push it, opening up new ideas at every step of the way. I started wondering about Palace of Eternity which I couldn't honestly remember, then raised my eyeline a few degrees and looked a little to the right into one of my own book piles in my very disordered collection and lo and behold, there is the spine of The Palace of Eternity sitting on the top, and almost the first thing I laid my eyes on. There was next to no chance of finding that copy if I'd gone looking for it but this feels like fate and now I simply have to re-read it. (The same bookshelf also holds Eon and Eternity but I'm not so sure I'll re-read them!) One day I'll organise my book collection better, but the random book pile has an aesthetic of its own 🙂
I knew you'd love Shaw - I picked up a nice Pan Lozenge copy of 'Medusa's Children' yesterday, one of his late 70s books - if you want it, just email me. Wait till you read 'Other Days, Other Eyes' and 'A Wreath of Stars'. He was a great guy, I've been a fan since the late 70s. Zelazny is inconsistent after the very early stuff- the early short stories are superb 'This Immortal', 'The Dream Master'...after that, it's cherry picking. Funnily enough I used the term 'Big Dumb Object' in a video I shot today. When I was reading manuscripts and advising on bids for Pan back in 1986 (they bought Vinge's 'The Peace War' and 'Marooned Across Realtime' on my advice) I told them to buy both 'Eon' and 'Blood Music' - but they lost the bid to Legend. 'Eon' isn't my kind of thing, but I still love 'Blood Music', great book.
Thank you for the offer, I have a Book Club hardcover of Medusa's Children already, wonderful cover. I also have Other Days. Will look out for Wreath of Stars. Palace of Eternity was good enough that Shaw has a golden ticket with me now, I'll be picking up everything I find from him. Re: Zelazny, I've also heard you endorse the Amber books. Zelazny takes up a big chunk of my collection, have found a ton of his books at thrift stores for some reason.
@@Bookpilled -I like the early Amber books (especially the first one). But ultimately for me, it's the early short stories ("A Rose For Ecclesiastes"), the first novel...'Lord of Light' is, in my view, overrated, but it's a fan fave. I much prefer 'Today We Choose Faces' because it's so oblique and spiky, but that's me...re Shaw, I'd also suggest 'Night Walk', 'The Two Timers'. His quality does vary, but his strong stuff is like no-one else's, mixture of Hard SF & New Wave in a British tone (he was from Northern Ireland) is pretty unique. Met him once - lovely, lovely man, died too young.
I loved your comment about The Cat Who Walked Through Walls, because I'm in the middle of listening to it, and feel the urge to DNR it on a regular basis. If I weren't using it as background noise for my commute, I'd probably have abandoned it by now.
I do the random picker myself because I have an embarrassingly huge TBR. But in between I’ve taken to re-reading old classics (personal classics), so I’m always reading books I know I like. My take on Eon: The book starts out like a lot of hard (complicated) sci-fi, with a chapter that makes no sense at first. The idea is that you learn about these concepts as you go, and that early part clicks in your brain later, so the reader says “Ah-ha! I get it.” Unfortunately, the book never really clicked for me and I thought it was average at best. I really liked the ending and it made me a little more likely to read Eternity, but not today.
Would like to hear page counts to go with your book review's also how hard it was to read, just like you did with the Review of Eon. Honesty is a funny thing, you are the only one to truly know the truth. Edited: This is not a Critique of content, i hope you take advice better than i do on occasions bro.
Lord of Light is essential. I don't know how I've missed Isle of the Dead. I've read almost everything of his. Even if it's one of his weaker ones, I have to read it. And Bob Shaw! How is it I've never even heard of him? Dickson is wonderful. What always surprises me is the drek that gets a movie treatment when there is a gigantic treasure trove of outstanding SF stories. When moviemakers (not naming any names) have a budget of tens of millions they can't spring a few bucks on copyright material?
With Zelazny, I think Lord of Light is his best, but two others I've enjoyed are Doorways in the Sand and Jack of Shadows. His Amber novels are interesting, but probably get to seem repetitive if you've read all of them (I haven't.)
If you're open to book recommendations I have a mixed bag of sci-fi, fantasy, short stories, and horror. Day of the Triffids - John Wyndham I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream - Harlan Ellison I Am The Doorway The Jaunt - Stephen King Andromeda Strain Sphere - Michael Crichton The Thomas Covenant Chronicles the Unbeliever - Stephen R Donaldson This last one is polarizing it's high fantasy with a very flawed protagonist. There is one part in the first book that either makes the reader throw the book against the wall or to push through it.
My own list of the five greatest ever SF books: 5. First Men in the Moon, by H.G. Wells 4. The Lensman Series, by E.E. Smith (especially Gray Lensman) 3. Our of the Silent Planet (and its 2 sequels), by C.S. Lewis 2. City, by Clifford D. Simak 1. A Canticle for Liebowitz, by Walter M. Miller, Jr.
Zelazny’s Lord of Light is his best work. The way he plays with religion, in this instance Hinduism and Buddhism, is fantastic, but the book (a reworked collection of six short stories) definitely falls on the more philosophical side of SF. It’s one of my top 5 SF novels of all time.
I always look forward to these five-book rundowns now. While I'll miss the random picks, totally understand why you could be burned out on mediocre books, and there's a To be Read list to satisfy, after all. I haven't read any of these and am only really familiar with Greg bear, Dixon and Simmak, but not these titles. I think I almost started Aeon once but never ended up doing it.
I think you got further than me in "The Wall around Eden". Carried it around with me for months and never got more than three pages at a sitting. Probably DNF'd at 18 to 20 pp and I remember nothing else about it, other than the cover and blurb really make me want to read it. *Sigh *
Greg Bear has become my favorite sci-fi author bar none. I've read 8 of his novels, 7 were great! Eon is one of my favorites of all time, coupled with Eternity. I thought the story was epic, cerebral, exciting and blind blowing. Can't get over how good it is. I think Ser Olmey is one of the best characters in sci-fi, up there with Paul A., Captain Kirk, Luke S. etc. Rest in Sci-Fi Greg!!
Much of Bob Shaw's very humorous non-fiction has been collected in 3 volumes, available as free e-books (donations can be made) from the TAFF site (Transatlantic Fan Fund): The Full Glass Bushel (fanzine columns), The Serious Scientific Talks (convention speeches), and Slow Pint Glass (fanzine writing).
@@Bookpilled One caveat, though... Shaw's humour is v British, so, having just watched your review of the first Hitch-Hiker's Guide book, it may not be to your taste. Also, 2 of his novels are comedies: Who Goes Here? and sequel Warren Peace (aka Dimensions), you may not like those (I didn't find them funny, nor do I find Harry Harrison's Bill, The Galactic Hero funny).
Been looking for a copy of Rendezvous with Rama, but haven’t had any luck. Curious to see if you would read any Sci Fi/Fantasy manga? I have a few that I’d let you borrow
i dont recall relly liking lord of light that much. but, i read the chronicles of amber, in bed while ill, and that fantasy/sf hybrid was very compelling to me at age 17. i doubt id read it again. amber is a great idea: the one true world where all of our worlds are just echoes of it. in todays multiverse environment, it would make a great series.
I read 'Eon' when it first came out, and loved it. I haven't read the sequels either. I haven't read any Shaw for decades, but I used to like him a lot. I've never read that one, though. Again, I loved Zelazny back I the day, but you managed to find one I haven't read This is becoming silly. I liked what I'd read of Dickson, but... 😁 I've never read anything by the next one. I've already forgotten her name. Guess what? I've always enjoyed Simak, but I've never read that one.
I'm surprised you didn't feel up to finishing "The Wall Around Eden" by Joan Slonczewski. I compared it to Octavia Butler when I first read it. Slow measured pacing, dense yet modern prose, intriguing aliens, etc... It needs a bit of patience because of the prose style, but I can say that about a lot of sci fi books. Anyway good show as always.
EON was excellent, I did really enjoy this, Hard SF is my thing. It did remind me of Rendezvous ...but EON is sufficiently different, I do prefer Rendezvous... though.
Curious if the Gormenghast trilogy is on your radar? It made me look at Fantasy differently, where the writing was more fascinating that the story, but still very enjoyable.
I've loved Palace of Eternity since I read it as a youngster. Oddly, the thing that stayed with me most clearly was the TCR - the Tavernor Compensating Rifle. Not the rifle, but the story behind it. That and "sparks" - the real diet soda! Cheers
Yeah. I read it in 1990 and loved it but the things I remember are the use of the term 'englobed' for a 3D version of encircled and when the protagonist has a toe shot off by a stray bullet from a helicopter gunship hunting him, he has to treat and dress the wound by pretending he is working on someone else's foot.
I don't understand the love for Rendezvous With Rama, I bounced off it hard & early many years ago. I like most of Clarke's other books. I tried Rama again a year or two ago, and finished it, but it was a bit of a slog, I found it dull. There are other Big Dumb Object books that I like much better.
The same. I knew RwR won a lot of awards and had enjoyed 2001 as a teenager but was disappointed. It was just dull. I went back to Clarke years later with Childhood's End and I found that much better, evocative and sad in a good way.
yah, something dragged me to a halt when i was reading eon, my copy's been sitting around for well over a decade getting eaten by moths. if you get a copy of medea, that'd be fun.
Simak has great novels, and lesser ones. Highway... not so great. I recommend "Heritage of the Stars". Joan Slonczewski I have read her first novel 'Still Forms on Foxfield' and thought it was OK. Eon left me a little cold, even though I really enjoyed it, it did not leave me satisfied but still I end up thinking about it and the setting a few years later.
I read Bob Shaw's books as they came out in UK mmpb; pretty much always excellent, rarely great, v few duds, usually around that 190 pages length; he was also v popular at SF conventions for humorous talks. PoE is a outlier in terms of structure, the others are more straightforward. Other Days, Other Eyes is a collection of short stories exploring the use and implications of 'Slow Glass', and is one of his most highly-regarded books. Isle of the Dead is from the lighter end of Zelazny, along with books like Roadmarks, Doorways in the Sand, enjoyable if you're in the mood for that kind of thing; the first Amber book, Nine Princes in Amber starts like that (like a Chandler novel) but then goes somewhere completely different. For me, Simak tailed off from the early 70s on, and I bailed before buying that one.
I read Blindsight from your top 15 review and was seriously disappointed. Impossible to tell who is who, what is going on in any semblance of detail, and just couldn’t get past the 50% mark. Some interesting snippets here and there, but without any connection to the actual plot. What kept you thinking about it afterwards? Ironically, the complex science was easy to follow, but I still can’t tell you want the inside of Rorschach looks like, or why the hell they insisted on going back there over and over again.
Maybe it's good that the random picker is getting the duds out of the way first, so you can cleanse them from your life before you get to the brilliant ones!
When I read EON, it feel outdated thanks to collapse of the Soviet Union, and (false hope) ending of the nuclear threat. Pictographic language sound like silly idea too. Now thread of Nuclear War is higher than ever, and zoomers and genAlpha communicate by emoticons and meme pictures...
Zelazny does write the same thing over and over again: Cynical immortal superhero protagonist against a backdrop of high adventure. Lord Of Light transcends the formula though...
Try ‘Today We Choose Faces’ fantastic, but I suggest you read part 1 after part 2. This is what the author intended but not the publisher. It makes a huge difference.
As others have said, I found him a mixed bag. I enjoyed (in that they are memorable with some emotional depth) his shorts: A Rose for Ecclesiastes and Home is the Hangman. Also, the novel Creatures of Light and Darkness. TBH I found Damnation Alley a bit of a potboiler: I guess it would make a good 'Mad Max' type of movie. I gave up on This Immortal after the first chapter but perhaps that is partly because I had an eBook version full of OCR character errors which made it a struggle to immerse.
I remember you not getting on with Atwood. I wonder what The Handmaid's Tale is like because parts of Oryx and Crake mimicked George Carlin monologues.
EON gave me the same impression. Bear couldn't describe key scenes properly and in the last third he gives up all together. Some punters say the reread is better...not for me.
I read Eon this past year and it was a big disappointment. When it came out it was huge, every store had it, seemed like everyone was reading it. Finally I got around to it. Meh. It wants to be, or people compare it to Rendezvous with Rama, one of my favorites. Instead of a character discovering new things we get a character who is told things. Then she moves to a new location and is told more things. Again and again. I would rather have read the prequel to Eon instead of Eon. Then comes a depressing war. Then, yes, there is that last third of the book where the main characters travel down The Way and encounters a new civilization which was only mildly interesting. It's just a bland mishmash of ideas.
The random picker went out the window pretty quick lol. Although I can't say that I blame you. But there is a bit of schadenfreude watching you churn through mediocrity
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Best book channel on TH-cam.
I started reading scifi because I stumbled across your channel and the way you speak of them is just so unbelievably charming
That's great to hear. Thank you.
His passion is infectious.
Every bad book you read is one I get to avoid. Thank you for your service.
I can't second this enough! 🙏🧠
I picked up Solaris based on your review. Wildly accessible and easy...yet fully engaging...read. Truly reflects what sci fi was like historically.
Try the Cyberiad and the Star Diaries by Lem also. Those are arguably even better than Solaris, though they are short story collections. Also, if you want something really bug-nuts, try the Futurological Congress.
His best imho is His Master's Voice.
I can never "picture" what Greg Bear is describing. And EON was the exemplar of that.
I just grabbed “The Palace of Eternity” because I liked your reaction to it. It can join the TBR, which is basically into the year 2535 at this point. I do love books. We’ve been so utterly swamped caring for my ailing FIL that I don’t get to read or write like I’d like to. But your reviews and enthusiasm for SF books, along with Moid and the Outlaw have really sustained me lately. Thanks!
Thanks, and sorry to hear about your situation. Hope Palace of Eternity hits you when you read it a millennia from now.
Dig the videos and subscribed today. My partner (who is a professional writer, mostly comics but she has written two novels) and I stumbled on your top 15 video earlier this week and I wanted to drop you a line about our reaction to that video and some of the others we have watched. As people in our mid-40's we have found we no longer read novels. I personally haven't read anything that wasn't non-fiction in a number of years. Your videos have inspired both of us to find time to dedicate to reading fiction in our daily lives. Thank you for that.
Looking forward to your reaction to Roadside Picnic as it is a book that has lived on my shelf for nearly 10 years and I love the movie.
Thanks Adam. Glad I could entice you both back to the novel. Please take Roadside Picnic off your shelf and read it.
@@Bookpilled I'll read Roadside Picnic after I finish The Dispossessed. Thanks again.
Bob Shaw is so underrated, I loved The Palace of Eternity. Really mind blowing stuff!
I don't think there is a Bob Shaw novel or short story collection that I didn't enjoy. I found them all good.
Oh dude I hate when writers cheat with stakes! Don’t set them up if you’re not going to knock them down. Thanks for the reviews mate!
Recently finished roadside picnic, that was a lot of fun.
Your description of the protagonist/attitude in the Zelazny book, and the Heinlein one you'd mentioned, perfectly articulates my experience trying one of the Flashman books. Really, it's a feeling I've had with so many books, and also experience with a lot of shows/movies, but in trying to describe this feeling to others I haven't been able to explain in a cogent way. So, thank you for how well you've encapsulated this.
“Packs a giant punch disproportionate to its length” is, to me, the essence of Bob Shaw if you could sum up what works so well - and you did, I’m just repeating it because I like it so much. This is so much what I thought in 1987, having read every Bob Shaw book I could get ahold of 1984-1986, that when The Ragged Astronauts came out in paperback, I thought “what do you need this many pages for?! I’m worried that this latest one is triple the normal Bob Shaw length…he never needs to tell a long story - please, no bloating!”.
Shaw tells 400 page stories in 200 pages or less, and it’s amazing what he can get done, where others stretch it out. I recently re-read Orbitsville after 38 years - I almost never re-read - and yes, I see flaws that 16 year old me rode right over…one of them perhaps being “okay, it does maybe move a little *too* fast, maybe needed a few more pages”. But, even then, I came out of it feeling “but it’s still incredible that this can work so well, in 187 pages”. I may dig out my copy of The Palace of Eternity, due to your enthusiasm; I like the book too, but I would need a re-read to turn distant memories into opinion…though this re-read stuff is dangerous, because I would say Orbitsville is now my third favourite SF novel, not my first, and I knew that might happen having found Blindsight, and The Color of Distance in the interim. Orbitsville will always be my Sentimental Favorite.
My next Bob Shaw re-read will be Other Days, Other Eyes, and with a new perspective on Orbitsville - which I still love and I wish you had handy - Outlaw Bookseller may just be right: Other Days, Other Eyes may be the more outstanding work. And incidentally, The Ragged Astronauts, IMO, did emerge as top of the heap, despite the shocking length for a Bob Shaw book. Also recommended, when it comes to grappling with perceptions of your taste: A Wreath of Stars.
I think Shaw, despite being sui generis, is proof that excellent novel writing rarely needs over 250 pages to produce muscular works of genius that are intensely readable. The average novel now is 100 pages longer than it would have been in 1980: the bloating process began in the 70s when publishers started pushing writers to produce longer books because readers wanted 'value' and there had been 3 major bestsellers in the 60s which were huge - 'Dune', 'LOTR' and 'Stranger in a Strange Land'. Obviously, there have been long novels since 'Don Quixote' (arguably the first modern novel), but they were exceptions to the rule. I'd say 'Blood Music' is better than 'Eon' because it's shorter and more direct in its paradigm shift and conceptual breakthrough. Good to see another big Shaw fan here!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I saw it happen in the late 1970s, early 1980s - and my test case was Ed McBain. All his novels suddenly became longer; in the 1950s and 1960s - even early 1970s - Ed McBain could write a tight Crime novel and get so much done in under 200 pages. And his books sat on shelves where most of the competition was also just as thin. Then something happened. The word is that the public started clamouring for the longer novel, even among genre reads. A 160 page noir novel was not in fashion anymore. And, to a degree, I’ll buy that tastes had changed. But I have another theory: books were becoming pricier and pricier. Inflation pushed the price of books up and up…and books under 200 pages looked, well, more expensive. But prices don’t go down - so I think it became like a bag of potato chips: the price has ballooned, the public will notice that something that was twenty-five cents (sorry, I know local currency), has gone to forty cents, to seventy-five cents, to, well, eventually up to two dollars. So, you make the package a bit bigger, and the price sneaks up to a lot bigger. I think potato chips (sorry, local food talk) and books got the same treatment - and we got trained to reject the 160 page novel that would now be a twenty dollar trade paperback. Better to market lots of twenty-five dollar 350 page trade paperbacks, and re-train readers.
I think even when Bob Shaw wrote The Ragged Astronauts he was told to make it longer.
@@sethball2475 -Yes, he was also probably told to write a trilogy. I read all three books and found volumes 2 and 3 pretty superfluous. These days in Creative Writing course in the UK, students are taught to write longer books to 'suit the market'. Betselling authors who no publisher would think of editing for fear of upsetting (such as King and Rowling) are also to blame, for as soon as they realised they could avoid editing, they produced bloated works. The FAntasy boom that started in 77, after which everything was a trilogy or longer has also affected SF, which should be about the fresh instead of the more of the same. Sad, right?
Shaw was one of the writers from back in the day who could write a really solid and weighty book at under 300 pages. Lots of writers in the 50s and 60s could pull this off. Gordon R Dickson could do this, Alfred Beater did this too.
I have picked up several new books because of your reviews. Som of them I had never heard about before. Also I really like this format of presenting the books. I'd say you are my favorite booktuber now.
That Simak book sounds a lot like another one of his I’m about to finish, Time and Again, which is mind blowing. It’s the first Simak I’ve read so I don’t know if this is par for the course, but his descriptions of emotions and feelings in it are some of the most beautiful prose I’ve ever read. Cool, mind bending concept, good protagonist, and little to no quips (even though I love me a good quip every once in a while)! Once you get through the 100, I’d recommend it to you whole-heartedly and with my reputation as collateral :)
Simak is the ruralist of scifi. He never seemed to care about what the mainstream of scifi was into. His concerns were people, and the big ideas were there to show how advances impact the little people most SF writers forget about.
That's why he was the third person to be named a grandmaster. It's tragic how his profile has fallen so much after his death. His work is timeless.
If you like Simak, be sure to read Time is the Simplest Thing, City, and Way Station - 3 of the greatest SF novels ever.
I always look forward to your reviews because I know they'll be objective and well-explained, avoiding spoilers while letting us know if the books are worth reading or not. It seems in sci-fi that a lot of authors, even the "masters," can be hit-or-miss, so it's very helpful, especially with some of their more obscure novels, to get an honest opinion. I recently got "Roadside Picnic" and was glad to hear that you're reading it, I'll be especially interested in that review.
Thank you. I finished Roadside Picnic last night. You've made a good purchase.
That was a phenomenal synopsis of eon and your reading experience.
You balance to the pros and cons exceptionally well and I haven't read it for decades but I know what I'm getting into when I tackle a reread.
Thanks again for your commentary and wonderful channel.
Dang now I have to reach for some Bob Shaw that has been sitting on my shelf and ignored for almost a decade. But that's the point of your channel to expose us to wonderful experiences so thank you again.
I always enjoy your reviews.
It’s tough navigating book buying in an on-line world when everyone is putting out self-published stuff as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to do these videos. I look forward to them.
You give a good impression of the books. Big fan of both Zelazny and Simak; neither of these books are among my favorites, either. I do like some of Zelazny's lighter books like Roadmarks and Doorways in the Sand, but if I'm not in the mood his 'trickster' books do come off as smug.
I haven't tackled Eon yet. Rendezvous with Rama was good.
Rendezvous with Rama should have been adapted into a movie. How well that could turn out is anyone's guess.
@@Bookspine5 in development with denis villeneuve now, i believe
Super reviews, thanks. Watching this one made me think again of Bob Shaw who somehow never made the informal canon of the authorial "greats" but I recall very much enjoying when I was in my most voracious SF reading years. It's been a long time since I read his books, though, and most of the plot details have slipped my mind, apart from the collection of linked short stories, "Other Days, Other Eyes" which to me is as an almost perfect example of the way good science fiction can take an apparently simple concept and push it and push it, opening up new ideas at every step of the way. I started wondering about Palace of Eternity which I couldn't honestly remember, then raised my eyeline a few degrees and looked a little to the right into one of my own book piles in my very disordered collection and lo and behold, there is the spine of The Palace of Eternity sitting on the top, and almost the first thing I laid my eyes on. There was next to no chance of finding that copy if I'd gone looking for it but this feels like fate and now I simply have to re-read it. (The same bookshelf also holds Eon and Eternity but I'm not so sure I'll re-read them!) One day I'll organise my book collection better, but the random book pile has an aesthetic of its own 🙂
Glad I could conspire with the universe to get you to read it again.
I knew you'd love Shaw - I picked up a nice Pan Lozenge copy of 'Medusa's Children' yesterday, one of his late 70s books - if you want it, just email me. Wait till you read 'Other Days, Other Eyes' and 'A Wreath of Stars'. He was a great guy, I've been a fan since the late 70s. Zelazny is inconsistent after the very early stuff- the early short stories are superb 'This Immortal', 'The Dream Master'...after that, it's cherry picking. Funnily enough I used the term 'Big Dumb Object' in a video I shot today. When I was reading manuscripts and advising on bids for Pan back in 1986 (they bought Vinge's 'The Peace War' and 'Marooned Across Realtime' on my advice) I told them to buy both 'Eon' and 'Blood Music' - but they lost the bid to Legend. 'Eon' isn't my kind of thing, but I still love 'Blood Music', great book.
Thank you for the offer, I have a Book Club hardcover of Medusa's Children already, wonderful cover. I also have Other Days. Will look out for Wreath of Stars. Palace of Eternity was good enough that Shaw has a golden ticket with me now, I'll be picking up everything I find from him. Re: Zelazny, I've also heard you endorse the Amber books. Zelazny takes up a big chunk of my collection, have found a ton of his books at thrift stores for some reason.
@@Bookpilled -I like the early Amber books (especially the first one). But ultimately for me, it's the early short stories ("A Rose For Ecclesiastes"), the first novel...'Lord of Light' is, in my view, overrated, but it's a fan fave. I much prefer 'Today We Choose Faces' because it's so oblique and spiky, but that's me...re Shaw, I'd also suggest 'Night Walk', 'The Two Timers'. His quality does vary, but his strong stuff is like no-one else's, mixture of Hard SF & New Wave in a British tone (he was from Northern Ireland) is pretty unique. Met him once - lovely, lovely man, died too young.
The trouble with the random approach is that you run headfirst into Sturgeon’s Law. I.e 95% of everything is crap
I think Sturgeon only put it at 90%, but the point stands. Lol
@@wtk6069 Include 21st century sci-fi and it probably would be edged over to 95% or even higher lol
So I await with anticipation your perfect 5 video
Whatever you read I watch, so... thanks again.
I loved your comment about The Cat Who Walked Through Walls, because I'm in the middle of listening to it, and feel the urge to DNR it on a regular basis. If I weren't using it as background noise for my commute, I'd probably have abandoned it by now.
I do the random picker myself because I have an embarrassingly huge TBR. But in between I’ve taken to re-reading old classics (personal classics), so I’m always reading books I know I like.
My take on Eon: The book starts out like a lot of hard (complicated) sci-fi, with a chapter that makes no sense at first. The idea is that you learn about these concepts as you go, and that early part clicks in your brain later, so the reader says “Ah-ha! I get it.” Unfortunately, the book never really clicked for me and I thought it was average at best. I really liked the ending and it made me a little more likely to read Eternity, but not today.
I need that Master of Paxwax review 😂
Would like to hear page counts to go with your book review's also how hard it was to read, just like you did with the Review of Eon.
Honesty is a funny thing, you are the only one to truly know the truth.
Edited:
This is not a Critique of content, i hope you take advice better than i do on occasions bro.
Lord of Light is essential. I don't know how I've missed Isle of the Dead. I've read almost everything of his. Even if it's one of his weaker ones, I have to read it. And Bob Shaw! How is it I've never even heard of him? Dickson is wonderful. What always surprises me is the drek that gets a movie treatment when there is a gigantic treasure trove of outstanding SF stories. When moviemakers (not naming any names) have a budget of tens of millions they can't spring a few bucks on copyright material?
Superb and informative book reviews.
WITNESS!: I really don't know jack about Shaw, so thank you.
I am with you on comedies. I cannot watch most comedies anymore.
Love your reviews and ummm Love Laibach too!
With Zelazny, I think Lord of Light is his best, but two others I've enjoyed are Doorways in the Sand and Jack of Shadows. His Amber novels are interesting, but probably get to seem repetitive if you've read all of them (I haven't.)
i cant wait to hear you talk about roadside picnic
Looking furrier than usual, my friend. Preparing for autumn? Do they even have autumn where you live?
Yeah, felt the same about Eon. Great start and setup, then he fumbles it all away.
If you're open to book recommendations I have a mixed bag of sci-fi, fantasy, short stories, and horror.
Day of the Triffids - John Wyndham
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream - Harlan Ellison
I Am The Doorway
The Jaunt - Stephen King
Andromeda Strain
Sphere - Michael Crichton
The Thomas Covenant Chronicles the Unbeliever - Stephen R Donaldson
This last one is polarizing it's high fantasy with a very flawed protagonist. There is one part in the first book that either makes the reader throw the book against the wall or to push through it.
Wow! Your reaction to Isle of the Dead. Can't believe it.
My own list of the five greatest ever SF books:
5. First Men in the Moon, by H.G. Wells
4. The Lensman Series, by E.E. Smith (especially Gray Lensman)
3. Our of the Silent Planet (and its 2 sequels), by C.S. Lewis
2. City, by Clifford D. Simak
1. A Canticle for Liebowitz, by Walter M. Miller, Jr.
Zelazny’s Lord of Light is his best work. The way he plays with religion, in this instance Hinduism and Buddhism, is fantastic, but the book (a reworked collection of six short stories) definitely falls on the more philosophical side of SF. It’s one of my top 5 SF novels of all time.
He has a lot of great stuff; The Amber series is certainly up there (don’t remember if that is fantasy).
I always look forward to these five-book rundowns now. While I'll miss the random picks, totally understand why you could be burned out on mediocre books, and there's a To be Read list to satisfy, after all.
I haven't read any of these and am only really familiar with Greg bear, Dixon and Simmak, but not these titles. I think I almost started Aeon once but never ended up doing it.
I think you got further than me in "The Wall around Eden". Carried it around with me for months and never got more than three pages at a sitting. Probably DNF'd at 18 to 20 pp and I remember nothing else about it, other than the cover and blurb really make me want to read it.
*Sigh *
A retrospective on cover art would be great .....you could do an episode just on the artwork of the philip k Dick novels !
Greg Bear has become my favorite sci-fi author bar none. I've read 8 of his novels, 7 were great! Eon is one of my favorites of all time, coupled with Eternity. I thought the story was epic, cerebral, exciting and blind blowing. Can't get over how good it is. I think Ser Olmey is one of the best characters in sci-fi, up there with Paul A., Captain Kirk, Luke S. etc. Rest in Sci-Fi Greg!!
Much of Bob Shaw's very humorous non-fiction has been collected in 3 volumes, available as free e-books (donations can be made) from the TAFF site (Transatlantic Fan Fund): The Full Glass Bushel (fanzine columns), The Serious Scientific Talks (convention speeches), and Slow Pint Glass (fanzine writing).
Nice, thank you
@@Bookpilled One caveat, though... Shaw's humour is v British, so, having just watched your review of the first Hitch-Hiker's Guide book, it may not be to your taste.
Also, 2 of his novels are comedies: Who Goes Here? and sequel Warren Peace (aka Dimensions), you may not like those (I didn't find them funny, nor do I find Harry Harrison's Bill, The Galactic Hero funny).
Been looking for a copy of Rendezvous with Rama, but haven’t had any luck. Curious to see if you would read any Sci Fi/Fantasy manga? I have a few that I’d let you borrow
I've read a couple of Juni Itos which I thought were very good. That's about as far as my manga literacy goes.
i dont recall relly liking lord of light that much. but, i read the chronicles of amber, in bed while ill, and that fantasy/sf hybrid was very compelling to me at age 17. i doubt id read it again. amber is a great idea: the one true world where all of our worlds are just echoes of it. in todays multiverse environment, it would make a great series.
Having checked out a few of your videos, I think you'd very much like A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter Miller, Jr., if you haven't already read it.
I read 'Eon' when it first came out, and loved it. I haven't read the sequels either.
I haven't read any Shaw for decades, but I used to like him a lot. I've never read that one, though.
Again, I loved Zelazny back I the day, but you managed to find one I haven't read
This is becoming silly. I liked what I'd read of Dickson, but... 😁
I've never read anything by the next one. I've already forgotten her name.
Guess what? I've always enjoyed Simak, but I've never read that one.
I'm surprised you didn't feel up to finishing "The Wall Around Eden" by Joan Slonczewski.
I compared it to Octavia Butler when I first read it. Slow measured pacing, dense yet modern prose, intriguing aliens, etc...
It needs a bit of patience because of the prose style, but I can say that about a lot of sci fi books.
Anyway good show as always.
Lord of Light is ok, but best Zelazny in my opinion is Creatures of Light and Darkness
I met Greg Bear.. at a book signing. But I was the only one there... Apart from Tad Williams. True story
EON was excellent, I did really enjoy this, Hard SF is my thing. It did remind me of Rendezvous ...but EON is sufficiently different, I do prefer Rendezvous... though.
Curious if the Gormenghast trilogy is on your radar? It made me look at Fantasy differently, where the writing was more fascinating that the story, but still very enjoyable.
I read all the books you hate and love them.
I've loved Palace of Eternity since I read it as a youngster. Oddly, the thing that stayed with me most clearly was the TCR - the Tavernor Compensating Rifle. Not the rifle, but the story behind it.
That and "sparks" - the real diet soda!
Cheers
Yeah. I read it in 1990 and loved it but the things I remember are the use of the term 'englobed' for a 3D version of encircled and when the protagonist has a toe shot off by a stray bullet from a helicopter gunship hunting him, he has to treat and dress the wound by pretending he is working on someone else's foot.
Did you pick up, Other Days, Other Eyes by Bob Shaw, in your exploration in the wild?
I don't understand the love for Rendezvous With Rama, I bounced off it hard & early many years ago. I like most of Clarke's other books. I tried Rama again a year or two ago, and finished it, but it was a bit of a slog, I found it dull. There are other Big Dumb Object books that I like much better.
The same. I knew RwR won a lot of awards and had enjoyed 2001 as a teenager but was disappointed. It was just dull. I went back to Clarke years later with Childhood's End and I found that much better, evocative and sad in a good way.
You HAVE to read Rama! 😊
Try the "Amber" series from Zelazny. Fantasy but terrific world building, huge in scope and a more compelling protagonist.
Oh! Don't bother with the 80s reboot of the series.
yah, something dragged me to a halt when i was reading eon, my copy's been sitting around for well over a decade getting eaten by moths. if you get a copy of medea, that'd be fun.
Hola, El el de tu remera es Don Ramón ?
Excelentes videos!
Seriously, you need to read Zelazny’s “Lord of Light” ASAP
Don't let Eon throw you. It's boring. But trust me... Eternity ROCKS. The war with the Jarts...'descendant command'... sci-fi at it's finest.
"TimeStorm" by Dickson - great
Feed your algorithm daily!
Simak has great novels, and lesser ones. Highway... not so great. I recommend "Heritage of the Stars". Joan Slonczewski I have read her first novel 'Still Forms on Foxfield' and thought it was OK. Eon left me a little cold, even though I really enjoyed it, it did not leave me satisfied but still I end up thinking about it and the setting a few years later.
"On my Way to Paradise".......Dave Wolvertion !
I've reviewed it on the channel
Find one of the collections of Zelazny's short stories.
The early ones are largely jewelz,
I read Bob Shaw's books as they came out in UK mmpb; pretty much always excellent, rarely great, v few duds, usually around that 190 pages length; he was also v popular at SF conventions for humorous talks. PoE is a outlier in terms of structure, the others are more straightforward. Other Days, Other Eyes is a collection of short stories exploring the use and implications of 'Slow Glass', and is one of his most highly-regarded books.
Isle of the Dead is from the lighter end of Zelazny, along with books like Roadmarks, Doorways in the Sand, enjoyable if you're in the mood for that kind of thing; the first Amber book, Nine Princes in Amber starts like that (like a Chandler novel) but then goes somewhere completely different.
For me, Simak tailed off from the early 70s on, and I bailed before buying that one.
👍
I read Blindsight from your top 15 review and was seriously disappointed. Impossible to tell who is who, what is going on in any semblance of detail, and just couldn’t get past the 50% mark. Some interesting snippets here and there, but without any connection to the actual plot. What kept you thinking about it afterwards? Ironically, the complex science was easy to follow, but I still can’t tell you want the inside of Rorschach looks like, or why the hell they insisted on going back there over and over again.
I can't tell you without spoiling the ending, for you and for anyone who reads this comment.
As far as Zelazny goes, I would have asked if you read Damnation Alley
What app are you using to randomly pick sci fi books? It would be very cool to have access to it.
Maybe it's good that the random picker is getting the duds out of the way first, so you can cleanse them from your life before you get to the brilliant ones!
Is Hyperion on your scifireplace
It's buried in a shelf. I've read it and like it a lot.
Random thought...I wonder if ever read Onslaught from Rigel.
Not familiar with it
Oh look, its my favourite t
Both better than Blood Music in my opinion.
When I read EON, it feel outdated thanks to collapse of the Soviet Union, and (false hope) ending of the nuclear threat. Pictographic language sound like silly idea too.
Now thread of Nuclear War is higher than ever, and zoomers and genAlpha communicate by emoticons and meme pictures...
I loved Medusa's Children by Bob Shaw, though it has been many years since I read it. I DIDN'T like Lord of Light very much.
Zelazny does write the same thing over and over again: Cynical immortal superhero protagonist against a backdrop of high adventure. Lord Of Light transcends the formula though...
Try ‘Today We Choose Faces’ fantastic, but I suggest you read part 1 after part 2. This is what the author intended but not the publisher. It makes a huge difference.
As others have said, I found him a mixed bag. I enjoyed (in that they are memorable with some emotional depth) his shorts: A Rose for Ecclesiastes and Home is the Hangman. Also, the novel Creatures of Light and Darkness. TBH I found Damnation Alley a bit of a potboiler: I guess it would make a good 'Mad Max' type of movie. I gave up on This Immortal after the first chapter but perhaps that is partly because I had an eBook version full of OCR character errors which made it a struggle to immerse.
Are you a pilot or student Pilot? Can’t help but notice your hat?
I remember you not getting on with Atwood. I wonder what The Handmaid's Tale is like because parts of Oryx and Crake mimicked George Carlin monologues.
That sounds dismal. I think HT is middling. Purple prose, politically dim.
Dude, why do you punish yourself this way in service of a gimmick? Maybe I’m just too old but life is short, you know. Enjoy your reviews!
1 st book ...Rama?
Joan Slonczewski's best book is A Door into Ocean, a feminist, nonviolent revolution story.
EON gave me the same impression. Bear couldn't describe key scenes properly and in the last third he gives up all together. Some punters say the reread is better...not for me.
Hate to be that guy but it’s books 6-10. Drives me crazy every time I hear him say 5-10
yeah read what youre feeling. screw the random picker
I read Eon this past year and it was a big disappointment. When it came out it was huge, every store had it, seemed like everyone was reading it. Finally I got around to it. Meh. It wants to be, or people compare it to Rendezvous with Rama, one of my favorites. Instead of a character discovering new things we get a character who is told things. Then she moves to a new location and is told more things. Again and again. I would rather have read the prequel to Eon instead of Eon. Then comes a depressing war. Then, yes, there is that last third of the book where the main characters travel down The Way and encounters a new civilization which was only mildly interesting. It's just a bland mishmash of ideas.
Eternity is probably better than Eon. Certainly bigger in scope.
This Way please 😂
I intially loved Zelazny but as I tried to reread him when I was older I realized his books read more like drug trips....
Don't bother with Rendezvous with Rama. I loved Eon when I was 16-ish. Zelazny "Creatures of Light and Darkness" great read.
The random picker went out the window pretty quick lol. Although I can't say that I blame you. But there is a bit of schadenfreude watching you churn through mediocrity