Excellent training video informing us about the experience going uphill on a trike. In “Trike 201,” (second semester Haha), you learn about “bridging.” A 7% hill may still not be enough, but when you are talking 10-, 15% hills, you lift your bottom from the seat, forming a “bridge” as you’re pedaling. The only contacts your body has with the trike, (besides your hands, of course), are your shoulders and your feet. Upright folks “dance” on their pedals, we form a “bridge”.
My wife and I are about to retire from our healthcare careers, we are going to do a lot of climbing on my Felt and her VTX Trike. You have provided us with great motivation to train. Also,I just viewed your Vintage Bike post , you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head".
Hey, Glenn! Yeah, this is a wild ride, entirely inside a very large, upscale community, filled with three-million dollar homes. Oh, that's like a twelve-million dollar home down where you are. :) It looks like most of the homes were investment properties as the place is basically deserted most of the time, and we rarely even see a car in there.
Recumbent trikes, the most fun and the most comfort ever! Also a great answer for anyone with back problems who still wants to ride. I don’t own one personally but I will someday!
Great video as usual, my cadence ... right push.... left push... right push.... left push... leg burn... leg burn... leg burn.... left push.... right push.... but HEY! I live in the great flat sandpile you call Florida.😎
Cadence songs are good! Tom Petty will get the HR up! I ditched the chain tubes on my ICE Sprint X26. It folds, so rubber flex tubes. Well, rubber deteriorates over time, and part of it got sucked down into the tube! The previous owner's fix was electrical tape to hide the bad flex section. Removed and replaced with TerraCycle's Idler. Very nice upgrade! Debating on taking the ICE vs. Catrike 700 on the AIDS/Lifecycle ride (575 mile/6 days) in June.
I used to race road bikes and was an exceptional climber, I actually loved the hills, I felt like one of the things that made me above average is the way you look at a hill , the terrain I mean , in most cases the climb will have gradient changes , little spots where you can go same speed but soft pedal thru, it may only be 5 pedal strokes of savings but over long climbs it adds up or like squaring the turn on super steep turns where the camber is driving you towards the inside of the turn , but I havnt found my road climbing legs on the trike , its more like my mountain bike where just steady grinding seems to be most efficient for me . I do some traversing Like Joe was doing and sometimes if super steep I will weave up the hill by kind of pumping the steering back and forth making tiny little traversing movements.
Yep, the trikes don't really climb quite the same way a road bike does. I find I can use momentum and brute force on the road bike and it doesn't work as well on the trike. How long have you been on the trike? It can take some time to get your "recumbent legs" in top climbing shape.
@@bikestrikesrazors 2 years now on the trike , so many things don't translate, I've found I actually pedal more efficiently by not having full leg extension , this is for flats I mean
Great video for a beautiful ride. That slog up the hills pays off for the rapid descent. On a serious note, I have found climbing much easier and much more stable on my Catrikes(700 and 559) than on my Specialized road bike. The gearing is super and I can just push back on the fixed seat to get leverage. As one loses speed on a road bike in a steep climb one starts wandering all over the road. I certainly feel much safer on the rapid descent on a trike and as you noted , getting started from a dead stop is much easier in a trike. FYI…. I also have a long wheelbase recumbent two wheeler which is useless for rides requiring climbing. God forbid you stop on a steep hill there is zero chance of getting started again. Btw…where are the colorful flags for safety on those open roads. You need them!
Run Me over , I don't want a flag on my trike , the only place they really help is when people are backing up in there cars and you might be to low for them to see your movement. I respect your advice but it's not lack of knowledge for most people riding without flags , I always wear a helmet but some even forgo that bit of safety. I do use a nearly unreasonable amount of lights though , stay safe have have a great journey on your next ride Brother.
Greeting Mark! Yep, my two wheeled recumbents are pretty horrible climbers! The flags stay home on this ride because I can't find anyway to keep them on the trike on these downhill runs. They've flown out, torn apart and even the poles have detached in multiple places (after repeated gluing)! So, like Jason, I run lights on the big hills. There are some roads that I wouldn't go near without a flag. It may not help, but it makes me feel better. :)
@@bikestrikesrazors it gets expensive losing those flags and poles on fast rides. I solved the cost problem by using remnants of my grandkids discarded kites as flags. They are bright and colorful and if I lose them it doesn’t matter.
@@jasonnealey8325 I must admit that I almost exclusively ride our dedicated trails here in Mew England and Florida and avoid street riding….so no flags. If I am taking a route that has traffic interaction the flags come out. Of course flashing lights and helmets are a must plus the super bright colored riding suits. Have a great holiday season.
Those are some blistering speeds you reached on the descents. With regards to bike fitting on recumbents, have you ever experimented with shorter than standard crank arms (160mm or less)? And if so, did you find that there are any worthwhile performance advantages to be had from them, from the standpoints of power, comfort, or aerodynamics?
Hey, John! I’ve never used anything but standard length crank arms but I’ve heard folks sing the praises of shorter arms. The best thing to do would be to head over to Bentrider Online and pose the same question on their main or trike forum over there. I’m sure you’ll wind up starting a spirited discussion on the matter. Didn’t do it while shooting this video, but so far my downhill speed record on a trike (VTX) is 52mph. Thanks for watching!
You choose the fastest kind of trike in the world. It's smart looking, but climbing I hear is tough. I would add an enviolao hub and electric assist motor.
In my experience, it's the bike (well, me, actually) that has more difficulty with uphills than the trike, possibly because the bike requires keeping balance, and when there's next to no forward movement, there's a lot more balance required. As far as the downhill is concerned, I'm not comfortable with the higher speeds, because the brakes are never good enough for emergency stops, so I feel unsafe. My trike is an ICE Full Fat, and I find that less effort is required on the uphill, even without being in super low gear. My Full Fat does have electric assist, but I choose not to use it, unless it's a longer trip and I'm going uphill and I'm really tired. But even then, 1/5 power is plenty. In fact, it will start moving easily in high gear and quickly reach high speed with just that little amount of assist. Rather reminds me of certain motorcycles that can start in any gear, and reach highway speeds in any gear(!), though not the most efficient way to ride.
True and the slower you get the more balance it requires. You can get so slow you fall over so you do need to be strong enough to move forward at a certain speed. It's nice that you don't have to worry about that on a trike! :)
Can you tell me what gear you are in while going up hill? It looks like you are in the granny gear on the front one and the top most gear on the back tire one. I am new to this and wanted to know? Thanks for the video it was great to watch.
Hey, Paula! We likely would’ve been in the smallest front chainring up front and the largest rear cog(lowest/easiest gear). I think those gears on my VTX are something like 27 up front and 32 in the back, but all trikes have different gearing, and a touring style trike would likely have lower (easier) gears than my VTX. Thanks for watching!
I am a disabled senior and bought a trike about a year ago, which I am enjoying immensely. I just bought an action camera and trying to figure out where the best place to mount it is. I didn't notice you having a camera on your helmet, but I thought that's where you were feeling from. Am I correct? If so, do you have a good way to mount it? Thanks so much. Im really enjoying your channel.
Hi Mike and thanks for your comment! I rarely mount the camera for the videos and hand-hold it so I can get movement in the shot. Holding it high above your head gives a nice drone look and holding it low to the ground is pretty cool also. I do have a helmet mount, but rarely use it.
Yes, we have! Some two wheeled recumbents climb better than others, but I’ve never tried one that I thought was a great climber. They typically climb more slowly than a road bike, so it can be difficult to maintain balance, but I know many riders that have no problem climbing on two wheeled recumbents. Thanks for watching!
Nice trikes, Whazzat! Some riders claim the larger wheel makes it easier to hold higher speeds but I’ve ridden small and large rear wheel trikes and I think it’s all more a matter of gearing.
Hi, Right now I've got Schwalbe "Shreddas" on the trike, but they're almost worn out so I'm going to try some Duranos. I haven't noticed too much difference between the "faster" tires. The trike always seem to roll about the same.
Hi, Keith! With trikes and my other recumbents, I use mountain bike shoes with SPD style cleats (clip in). With the mountain bike shoes (at least most of them) the small cleat is recessed and you can get good traction when standing and walking. I’d hate to try and get out of the VTX wearing slippery road bike cleats! I still wear Shimano road bike cleats with road shoes/bikes, but I know lots of folks have gone over to mountain bike shoes even with their road bikes, just for ease of walking once you get to the coffee shop. :)
Anybody ever tried putting training wheels on a road bike? It'd take care of the stability issue, wouldn't it? And then with a low enough gear you could possibly climb effortlessly as slowly as necessary...
There's a type of trike that's popular in the UK that's really just like a road bike with two wheels in the back. I'd be very curious to try one! Take a look here: tricycleassociation.org.uk/
Hi Michael! You really need to slow down for speed bumps. If you hit them at speed, the trike will toss your body up in the air. Speed tables not so bad. You really need to slow down for rumble strips as the back end of the trike can lose traction and the trike can spin around on you.
@@bikestrikesrazors I was the butt of a mean practical joke by identical twins years ago, one my boss, tearing up what I knew was my excellent job performance. I hope I haven't given you any ideas! Your videos are fun to watch. :-)
@@gmaneis Shame on them! :) I don't think we've ever done any practical jokes like that, but Joe did fill in for me at my job back when I was much younger and nobody noticed. :)
What's your actual speed in mph climbing let's say a 7 to 9 % grade.. I always feel like I'm going so slow I could walk faster.. my speed seems to be apprx 2.7 mph to around 4 mph depending on how long the hill is. Sometimes my GPS thinks I stopped moving. My trike is geared with a 22 front sprocket and 34 rear.. 26.83 gear inches . I live in Colorado so I've considered a schlumpf mt drive but that would cut my speed in half!!
Yep, that sounds about right. Depending on the grade, from say 9% to some of the bad 14%-16% grades around here, I'm going from around 5mph down to 2 or 3. I'm not really all that much faster on an upright bike and a few weeks ago I needed to walk up a quarter mile 16% grade I had just ridden up and I was probably going about the same speed walking and it was easier walking than riding the upright. :)
Hey, Mike. I don't think TH-cam will let me post links (sometimes the comments with links just vanish) but you can follow me over at Strava (Joe Giannone) and you should be able to hunt through my activities and find that ride. Any of my Saturday rides that run through Serrano Country Club will show that basic route, but I've been doing it lately on road bikes, so you may have to hunt back a bit to find a trike run.
@@mikepickering7500 Followed you back! :) Been off the trikes for a couple of months trying to get back into road bike shape, but we're back on trikes this Thursday. If you search back in my feed, you'll hit a point where all I was riding was the VTX for a very long time.
@@bikestrikesrazors and your rear wheel is a 700c....if so then you have 23 gear inches to climb with. My gekko 26 has a 22 front 34 rear which gives me 16 gear inches....but then my trike is 45 lbs and I weigh 280 so more mass to move up hill
Excellent training video informing us about the experience going uphill on a trike. In “Trike 201,” (second semester Haha), you learn about “bridging.” A 7% hill may still not be enough, but when you are talking 10-, 15% hills, you lift your bottom from the seat, forming a “bridge” as you’re pedaling. The only contacts your body has with the trike, (besides your hands, of course), are your shoulders and your feet. Upright folks “dance” on their pedals, we form a “bridge”.
I’ll have to give that a try on my next ride, Palm!
Super informative video. Thank you
Glad you liked it, Sam!
My wife and I are about to retire from our healthcare careers, we are going to do a lot of climbing on my Felt and her VTX Trike. You have provided us with great motivation to train. Also,I just viewed your Vintage Bike post , you hit the proverbial "Nail on the Head".
Thanks for watching, Evan and thanks for the positive comments! Glad to help motivate! :)
At 3:20 you had me convinced!!! Thanks guys for this video!
Thanks very much for watching, Rowan!
Looks like a fun route. I love downhills on a trike and .. the climb... that is fun too but it is paying for the fun.
Hey, Glenn! Yeah, this is a wild ride, entirely inside a very large, upscale community, filled with three-million dollar homes. Oh, that's like a twelve-million dollar home down where you are. :) It looks like most of the homes were investment properties as the place is basically deserted most of the time, and we rarely even see a car in there.
Great video thanks 😊
Thanks for watching!
Recumbent trikes, the most fun and the most comfort ever! Also a great answer for anyone with back problems who still wants to ride. I don’t own one personally but I will someday!
Good luck with your trike Quest, Good Time!
@@bikestrikesrazors thank you sir! I always have an eye out :)
Great video as usual, my cadence ... right push.... left push... right push.... left push... leg burn... leg burn... leg burn.... left push.... right push.... but HEY! I live in the great flat sandpile you call Florida.😎
Thanks, Jake. You'd miss that leg burn if it was gone. :) Lets you know you're alive!
I wish all my local roads were as nice as that hotmix you're on.
I wish mine were also, Ross! Most of the roads here are pretty hostel to bikes and trikes, but we're lucky there are a few nice areas to ride in.
That looks like a brutal hill to climb. Sounds like you just broke the sound barrier.
It's not too bad if you take your time and have the right (low) gearing. See our video on Mt Umunhum for a truly brutal climb! Thanks for watching!
...it's like you have a hype man behind you... :D
Cadence songs are good! Tom Petty will get the HR up! I ditched the chain tubes on my ICE Sprint X26. It folds, so rubber flex tubes. Well, rubber deteriorates over time, and part of it got sucked down into the tube! The previous owner's fix was electrical tape to hide the bad flex section. Removed and replaced with TerraCycle's Idler. Very nice upgrade! Debating on taking the ICE vs. Catrike 700 on the AIDS/Lifecycle ride (575 mile/6 days) in June.
That's a tough choice between the ICE and Catrike! Let us know how the ride goes, Tom!
Of course you can climb with the recumbent trike. It's all about the gearing. With a 22/32/44 chainrings and 9-52t cassette, you can climb any hill...
*huff* *puff* "I enjoy climbing" *huff* *puff* *wheeze*...
Hey, I resemble that remark! :)
I used to race road bikes and was an exceptional climber, I actually loved the hills, I felt like one of the things that made me above average is the way you look at a hill , the terrain I mean , in most cases the climb will have gradient changes , little spots where you can go same speed but soft pedal thru, it may only be 5 pedal strokes of savings but over long climbs it adds up or like squaring the turn on super steep turns where the camber is driving you towards the inside of the turn , but I havnt found my road climbing legs on the trike , its more like my mountain bike where just steady grinding seems to be most efficient for me . I do some traversing Like Joe was doing and sometimes if super steep I will weave up the hill by kind of pumping the steering back and forth making tiny little traversing movements.
Yep, the trikes don't really climb quite the same way a road bike does. I find I can use momentum and brute force on the road bike and it doesn't work as well on the trike. How long have you been on the trike? It can take some time to get your "recumbent legs" in top climbing shape.
@@bikestrikesrazors 2 years now on the trike , so many things don't translate, I've found I actually pedal more efficiently by not having full leg extension , this is for flats I mean
Great video for a beautiful ride. That slog up the hills pays off for the rapid descent. On a serious note, I have found climbing much easier and much more stable on my Catrikes(700 and 559) than on my Specialized road bike. The gearing is super and I can just push back on the fixed seat to get leverage. As one loses speed on a road bike in a steep climb one starts wandering all over the road. I certainly feel much safer on the rapid descent on a trike and as you noted , getting started from a dead stop is much easier in a trike. FYI…. I also have a long wheelbase recumbent two wheeler which is useless for rides requiring climbing. God forbid you stop on a steep hill there is zero chance of getting started again. Btw…where are the colorful flags for safety on those open roads. You need them!
Run Me over , I don't want a flag on my trike , the only place they really help is when people are backing up in there cars and you might be to low for them to see your movement.
I respect your advice but it's not lack of knowledge for most people riding without flags , I always wear a helmet but some even forgo that bit of safety. I do use a nearly unreasonable amount of lights though , stay safe have have a great journey on your next ride Brother.
Greeting Mark! Yep, my two wheeled recumbents are pretty horrible climbers! The flags stay home on this ride because I can't find anyway to keep them on the trike on these downhill runs. They've flown out, torn apart and even the poles have detached in multiple places (after repeated gluing)! So, like Jason, I run lights on the big hills. There are some roads that I wouldn't go near without a flag. It may not help, but it makes me feel better. :)
@@bikestrikesrazors it gets expensive losing those flags and poles on fast rides. I solved the cost problem by using remnants of my grandkids discarded kites as flags. They are bright and colorful and if I lose them it doesn’t matter.
@@jasonnealey8325 I must admit that I almost exclusively ride our dedicated trails here in Mew England and Florida and avoid street riding….so no flags. If I am taking a route that has traffic interaction the flags come out. Of course flashing lights and helmets are a must plus the super bright colored riding suits. Have a great holiday season.
Same to you, Mark!
Those are some blistering speeds you reached on the descents. With regards to bike fitting on recumbents, have you ever experimented with shorter than standard crank arms (160mm or less)? And if so, did you find that there are any worthwhile performance advantages to be had from them, from the standpoints of power, comfort, or aerodynamics?
Hey, John! I’ve never used anything but standard length crank arms but I’ve heard folks sing the praises of shorter arms. The best thing to do would be to head over to Bentrider Online and pose the same question on their main or trike forum over there. I’m sure you’ll wind up starting a spirited discussion on the matter. Didn’t do it while shooting this video, but so far my downhill speed record on a trike (VTX) is 52mph. Thanks for watching!
Australia's Spiderbait did a cover of Black Betty too.
You choose the fastest kind of trike in the world. It's smart looking, but climbing I hear is tough. I would add an enviolao hub and electric assist motor.
I wouldn't say that climbing is tough, but it is harder than on some lighter upright bikes.
In my experience, it's the bike (well, me, actually) that has more difficulty with uphills than the trike, possibly because the bike requires keeping balance, and when there's next to no forward movement, there's a lot more balance required. As far as the downhill is concerned, I'm not comfortable with the higher speeds, because the brakes are never good enough for emergency stops, so I feel unsafe. My trike is an ICE Full Fat, and I find that less effort is required on the uphill, even without being in super low gear.
My Full Fat does have electric assist, but I choose not to use it, unless it's a longer trip and I'm going uphill and I'm really tired. But even then, 1/5 power is plenty. In fact, it will start moving easily in high gear and quickly reach high speed with just that little amount of assist. Rather reminds me of certain motorcycles that can start in any gear, and reach highway speeds in any gear(!), though not the most efficient way to ride.
True and the slower you get the more balance it requires. You can get so slow you fall over so you do need to be strong enough to move forward at a certain speed. It's nice that you don't have to worry about that on a trike! :)
Can you tell me what gear you are in while going up hill? It looks like you are in the granny gear on the front one and the top most gear on the back tire one. I am new to this and wanted to know? Thanks for the video it was great to watch.
Hey, Paula! We likely would’ve been in the smallest front chainring up front and the largest rear cog(lowest/easiest gear). I think those gears on my VTX are something like 27 up front and 32 in the back, but all trikes have different gearing, and a touring style trike would likely have lower (easier) gears than my VTX. Thanks for watching!
I am a disabled senior and bought a trike about a year ago, which I am enjoying immensely. I just bought an action camera and trying to figure out where the best place to mount it is. I didn't notice you having a camera on your helmet, but I thought that's where you were feeling from. Am I correct? If so, do you have a good way to mount it? Thanks so much. Im really enjoying your channel.
Hi Mike and thanks for your comment! I rarely mount the camera for the videos and hand-hold it so I can get movement in the shot. Holding it high above your head gives a nice drone look and holding it low to the ground is pretty cool also. I do have a helmet mount, but rarely use it.
@@bikestrikesrazors ah, that makes sense to me now. Thanks!
Ok good to know thank you have you ever tried this with a two wheeled recumbent bike
Yes, we have! Some two wheeled recumbents climb better than others, but I’ve never tried one that I thought was a great climber. They typically climb more slowly than a road bike, so it can be difficult to maintain balance, but I know many riders that have no problem climbing on two wheeled recumbents. Thanks for watching!
ICE XL w/ Rollie and Sclumpf MTN drive.
Can climb phone poles.
How does the big wheel on the VTX affect things?
Nice trikes, Whazzat! Some riders claim the larger wheel makes it easier to hold higher speeds but I’ve ridden small and large rear wheel trikes and I think it’s all more a matter of gearing.
I wanting if know of a recumbent cargo pants that have a belt loops and zipper on all the pockets?
Hi Donald. Check out Bend it Cycling's "Expedition Recumbent Cycling Shorts". They even have zipper pockets. :).
Can you please tell me which 20 inch tires you run on your VTX and why?
Hi,
Right now I've got Schwalbe "Shreddas" on the trike, but they're almost worn out so I'm going to try some Duranos. I haven't noticed too much difference between the "faster" tires. The trike always seem to roll about the same.
What bike shoes do you use? Clipped in? Road bike shoes?
Hi, Keith! With trikes and my other recumbents, I use mountain bike shoes with SPD style cleats (clip in). With the mountain bike shoes (at least most of them) the small cleat is recessed and you can get good traction when standing and walking. I’d hate to try and get out of the VTX wearing slippery road bike cleats! I still wear Shimano road bike cleats with road shoes/bikes, but I know lots of folks have gone over to mountain bike shoes even with their road bikes, just for ease of walking once you get to the coffee shop. :)
Anybody ever tried putting training wheels on a road bike? It'd take care of the stability issue, wouldn't it? And then with a low enough gear you could possibly climb effortlessly as slowly as necessary...
There's a type of trike that's popular in the UK that's really just like a road bike with two wheels in the back. I'd be very curious to try one! Take a look here:
tricycleassociation.org.uk/
@@bikestrikesrazors Thanks for the info, I'll check it out!
how does a trike handle speed tables or speed bumps going downhill?
Hi Michael! You really need to slow down for speed bumps. If you hit them at speed, the trike will toss your body up in the air. Speed tables not so bad. You really need to slow down for rumble strips as the back end of the trike can lose traction and the trike can spin around on you.
Correction 16.83 gear inches.. dang fat finger
Very enjoyable video. Are you guys brothers or twins? You look and sound just like each other. :-)
Hey, G! Yes, good eye! We are twins, and since everyone pretty much looks alike when wearing cycling clothes anyway, good luck telling us apart. :)
@@bikestrikesrazors I was the butt of a mean practical joke by identical twins years ago, one my boss, tearing up what I knew was my excellent job performance. I hope I haven't given you any ideas! Your videos are fun to watch. :-)
@@gmaneis Shame on them! :) I don't think we've ever done any practical jokes like that, but Joe did fill in for me at my job back when I was much younger and nobody noticed. :)
@@bikestrikesrazors As long as you weren't a brain surgeon, I guess no harm was done! :-)
@@gmaneis LOL! Nope, just shuffling boxes in a summer warehouse job. :)
What gears do you have??? I find most recumbents don't have enough gears...road bike gears not mtb gears...
Hi and thanks for watching! Our VTX's and most trikes, have a triple crank with a very low "bail out" gear for climbing tough hills.
What's your actual speed in mph climbing let's say a 7 to 9 % grade.. I always feel like I'm going so slow I could walk faster.. my speed seems to be apprx 2.7 mph to around 4 mph depending on how long the hill is. Sometimes my GPS thinks I stopped moving. My trike is geared with a 22 front sprocket and 34 rear.. 26.83 gear inches . I live in Colorado so I've considered a schlumpf mt drive but that would cut my speed in half!!
Yep, that sounds about right. Depending on the grade, from say 9% to some of the bad 14%-16% grades around here, I'm going from around 5mph down to 2 or 3. I'm not really all that much faster on an upright bike and a few weeks ago I needed to walk up a quarter mile 16% grade I had just ridden up and I was probably going about the same speed walking and it was easier walking than riding the upright. :)
That's encouraging to know.. thanks for such a quick response.. I appreciate and respect you both and enjoy your videos very much.
@@StayTrueMinistry Thanks very much for watching!
Can you please post a link to your strava, thanks
Hey, Mike. I don't think TH-cam will let me post links (sometimes the comments with links just vanish) but you can follow me over at Strava (Joe Giannone) and you should be able to hunt through my activities and find that ride. Any of my Saturday rides that run through Serrano Country Club will show that basic route, but I've been doing it lately on road bikes, so you may have to hunt back a bit to find a trike run.
@@bikestrikesrazors Following you now Joe, thanks
@@mikepickering7500 Followed you back! :) Been off the trikes for a couple of months trying to get back into road bike shape, but we're back on trikes this Thursday. If you search back in my feed, you'll hit a point where all I was riding was the VTX for a very long time.
What is your granny gear on your ICE?
Hi Steve,
It looks like 26 in the front and 32 in the back.
@@bikestrikesrazors and your rear wheel is a 700c....if so then you have 23 gear inches to climb with. My gekko 26 has a 22 front 34 rear which gives me 16 gear inches....but then my trike is 45 lbs and I weigh 280 so more mass to move up hill
@@stevemullin1195 I ran out of gears pretty fast on the climb up Diablo. Thought I'd be able to spin more. :(
😂