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I’ve now got to watch Peep Show, as I feel you’re reading too much into British comedy which is usually just a piss take and exaggeration of ourselves in a way that Americans don’t tend to do. However, as I’ve never watched an episode I can’t say for certain. Looking forward to your next video!!
Jez is definitely upper middle class but desperately wishes he was working class - hence his friendship with Super Hans. Mark is lower middle class but strives to be upper middle class, hence marrying Sophie even when not sure he even loves her. He also resents Jez because he wishes he had all the upper middle class opportunities he never had, hence his love for Jeremy's mother. I feel this is the essence of the show.
Super Hans is one of the most fantastically Degenerate Reprobates,in tv Comedy. He makes the most appalling situations,seem,somehow,not that bad or shameful. Jeremy is often drawn into His murky world,and it never ends well for him. I loved it straight away. It didn`t need to grow on me. I just thought "Yeah,this is my kinda shit".
When Mark asks Jez where the pizza has gone: "Big Suze was hungry. She's rich Mark. she doesn't understand about not taking other people's stuff". Having met a few upper class girls (I'm very much working class) I can confirm that observation from Jez is quite accurate!
I concur. If you're English you must never lend a wealthy person cash that you can't afford to give away forever. They will forget they borrowed it, because money is unimportant to them. It isn't malicious, it's entirely innocent. But, being English, you will never find it in yourself to ask for the money back, lest you appear desperately poor.
@@simonh This is so true, and it plays out in so many ways - from assuming you'll split the bill at a restaurant even though the poorest person had soup and water and the richest had steak and extra side dishes to buying rounds and it not occurring to them that their working class friend can't just buy 10 drinks at once when they probably budgeted for 3 or so! Wealthy friends take some managing.
Funfact: Did you know that in real life Big Suze, actress Sophie Winkleman is even posher than in the show? She married Lord Frederick Windsor, son of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent. So her hubby is a relation of the Queen and she now has the title of Lady Frederick Windsor.
Yes, she is upper middle class by background but married into the aristocracy in 2009. Her husband, Lord Frederick Windsor, is the only son of the Queen's cousin, Prince Michael of Kent.
Explaining middle class awkwardness is easy. The Working class have nothing to lose, The Upper class have nothing to gain, The Middle classes have everything to gain and everything to lose. This explains there obsession with image, this obsession leads to awkwardness.
Johnson is self-confident and self-important and considers himself above everyone else. He puts on a face to show he doesn't concern himself with anyone else, and I think this is why Mark looks up to him so much. He's pretty much everything Mark wants to be but would never have the confidence to try doing. I guess if it was an American high-school show he'd be the Jock character.
I always saw Johnson as an insecure narcissistic type. Charming and successful, but his success relies solely on what other people can do for him; he knows how to manipulate the underdog.
Johnson is trying to use a transatlantic ascent. So he is acting as an American businessman. Striving for success.. He drops his ascent when he is stressed.
While Peep Show is very much set in middle class culture, I think that the characters can be seen in other comedies. "Whatever happened to the Likely Lads" was a 70s sitcom with two Northern working class men, but the characters are essentially Mark and Jez. One is desperately trying to get on and ingratiate himself with the middle classes. The other didn't care and is happy not joining the rat race. It's a slightly different take on class, but the fundamental dynamic between the characters is the same.
The great thing about Peep Show is that there are no stereotypes. They are all brilliantly written characters, with distinct personalities and motivations.
You guys might like I'm Alan Partridge. It's an unmistakably British show about the life of a middle-class middle-aged radio presenter who is going through a mid-life crisis. It's a fantastic cringe comedy packed full of subtle humour that perfectly illustrates a very particular kind of Englishman. It's definitely not for everyone, but I think it's excellent and a perfect example of British humour.
This is a good observation I never realised this. It's true that in the US you have Seinfeld, Raymond, whole cast of friends etc...they're all supposed to be the heroes whereas I think in the UK we're just what Americans would consider as meaner. British people love to laugh at and wind up others. Americans get offended by this behaviour. So our comedy culture reflects this, we enjoy laughing at 'fools' or 'losers' on TV, like David Brent, Peep Show cast, in fact it's in every comedy, even Mr Bean. Maybe because we are in fact generally quite low on self esteem as a nation and laughing at others makes us feel better!? Possibly...
Our class system is more complex than it first seems. Can be related to family background. Then you throw in people's occupation, political outlook and schooling. Where people, live their accents.
Yeah, its slowly being americanised and people conflate it purely with household income but its way way deeper than that. At home up north im often considered middle class but when I was down south I never felt like more of a pleb.
I once had a job in a cafe. A couple of men came in, really scruffy and unshaven and they ordered fillet steak and other expensive items. I went to the boss and asked him what should I do as these people didn't look as though they could pay for the food. The boss looked to see who I was talking about and said, "Those men have more money than any of our other customers, they just don't have to show it". He was right, they paid and tipped handsomely, telling me not to tell the boss or put it in the communal pot as I wouldn't see any of it. He was right too, people with real money here don't feel a need to show it. Those with new money will come down to the country and buy all the tweeds and go shooting, the old money just look rough. You two should take a look at The F***ing Fulfords".
You could have 2 men with very similar average incomes. One works in an office, as did his father, the other is a builder as was his father before him. It is likely that people would consider the first man middle-class and the second working-class.
@@Gingerninja800 yeah it's wired I'm form Hampshire but live in Liverpool and some people see me a higher in the class system than I am back home. I've really felt out of place just because of what class people see me as especially when that's not how I see myself.
@@vixen1143 I'm from Manchester living in the south, and it took me a while to realise how much my accent affected how I was perceived. A lady once said to me "you've actually got a good grasp of the English language"..... I didn't understand at the time, I just felt flattered 🙄
definitely, and a lot of pulp's output in that period was about working class life - Acrylic Afternoons, Disco 2000, Babies, or about clashes between the classes, like in I Spy; notably the bit that goes "I can't help it, I was dragged up, my favorite parks are car parks, grass is something you smoke, birds are something you shag, take your year in Provence and shove it up your arse" which uses a really popular mid-90s marker of middle-upper class (because who else can afford to take a year off to jolly it up in Provence?) to air more ordinary grievances. as an aside, pulp are just brilliant.
I think that you got the bit about builders wrong. I think they trying to show how uncomfortable middle class Brits are dealing any trades person and therefore terrified at the potential consequences. You also missed Oscar winning actress Olivia Coleman in one of her early roles..
@@dianeferguson3555 Probably a combination of anxiety that the worker will get the better of them, guilt at having to be 'the boss' of the worker, and insecurity about not knowing how to fix stuff yourself and having to hire 'a man' to do it for you XD
I absolutely love Peep Show. I grew up in Essex in a working-class family and I find that Peep Show touches on the subtleties and idiosyncrasies of my life better than any other show. I think that a lot of the fun in cringe comedy comes from being able to laugh at the embarrassing parts of myself that the characters represent. When I see Mark do that strange social behaviour that I thought only I did, I suddenly feel less self-conscious about it and find a sense of liberation in being able to laugh at it. To me, the best British cringe-comedy seems to carry the message "We're all highly strung, embarrassing, and imperfect morons who do lots of embarrassing things. Let's celebrate that by laughing at ourselves and maybe then we won't care so much about it."
Same! It's so relatable, to me what they're saying in their heads is excatly what I think on a day to day basis. Peep show reminds us that we're all dumb, selfish arseholes who only care about ourselves. Also grew up in a working class family in Essex!
The whole builder thing is partly a hang over from the old days when trades were seen by middle and upper classes as additional (more expensive) servants to their comfortable lives and also partly because of fears that they (and this is particularly true of builder/ contractors) may be rouge/ cowboy and you'll have paid like £3000 (including a sizeable deposit) for only let's say half a wall to be built
I think it's not that middle class Brits lack self-confidence, but that middle class Americans lack self-awareness. They don't worry about things like that because they neither know nor care how they appear to others. It's the same thing that makes them shout in public or send food back in restaurants. They have no sense of how ridiculous they appear to others, largely because in the US, people don't call each other out on things. in the UK, arrogance, rudeness, pride and vanity will all get you mocked. So we Brits grow up acutely aware of the judgement of others and Americans just don't. You are confusing religion with churches. Americans do that a lot. I, for example, am an extremely religious and spiritual Christian druid. I never attend church, don't wear badges parading my faith and almost never talk about my beliefs, but every day, the most important thing in my life is the spiritual side. Americans always think their country is more spiritual, but it really isn't. So much over there is for show. Here, we don't have megachurches and pastors with sports cars. We have millions of people of various faiths, quietly living their religion. We also don't have mass shootings in the name of ours. Bang on about cars and builders. Again, the cringey humour doesn't work for Yanks because of that lack of self-awareness. You want a hero to identify with, we want a human being that we can relate to.
The Johnson one is an interesting point. I've definitely met people like that but I don't know if I'd call it a stereotype. I think the episode where Mark realises he might be a bit crazy is kind of what the whole thing has been building up to. The guy is a sociopath, possibly a psychopath, who is extremely good at passing off as someone that is more competent than everyone else when you first meet him. I do feel really sorry for Big Suze who clearly fell for his confidence act, it was inevitable they wouldn't go the distance but I do worry that Big Suze has a spot of Stockholm Syndrome.
Great video. As a long time PS fan I've often wondered what people from the USA think of the show. To date there have been three US remakes of PS that didn't make it past the pilot episode.
I think the difference between American humour and British humour is that American humour is generally '... isn't it funny that ...' whereas British humour is '... wouldn't it be funny if ...'.
Peep Show is one of my all time favourite shows. It's just so relatable, if your English. If you want to know what it really means and is like to be English, then all you need to do is what this and The Inbetweeners. They are both practically documentaries. Also you missed a trick, not calling the video "A Peep Into British Culture".
Forgive me because I'm not sure but isn't Curb Your Enthusiasm cringe comedy? The creator was a great inspiration for Ricky Gervais. That's why he loves making cringe comedy.
I'm from North East England & I've binged pretty much all your vids in the last week. I love how enthusiastic you guys are about our shitty little Island and you've made me smile so much in the last week. xD
The thing is, that all these people are terrible. However, you will meet people like them wherever you go. We do not all conform to these stereotypes, but there is a lot of them out there. Really, there is. And they are all risible. You do need a strength of character yourself to recognize them, and relate to them as well, because they cannot be escaped.
"all these people are terrible" Really ? Mark and Jeremy are not terrible, they both have many faults but they are also essentially decent men. Dobby is the most caring character in the series, and even Superhans improves as time goes on.
The reason you don't understand Johnson, is because Johnson is a try-hard self-help book buying go-getter. In other words, he's Peep Show's American. 😉 Present company excluded.
I have never watched The Peep Show but, from your comparison of the way British people are religious to the way that Americans are doesn’t resonate with my observations (as a Scot who has lived in various parts of England for most of their adult life). In England people have a very quiet faith on the whole, one that is not born out of tradition but true faith. It doesn’t make you more religious to try and force it down other people’s throats. It doesn’t make you more religious to insist that others practice their religion in the same way that you do and it certainly doesn’t make you more religious if you try your hardest to profit from the faith of others. I am not a religious person but I was brought up in The Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) in a part of the country that is quite vocally and physically sectarian...the sort of place where people often asked which school you went to, just to ascertain whether you were Catholic or Protestant. So I grew up in a place where being very vocal about your religion (and football team allegiance) resulted in violence and occasionally death and as a result, I can’t help but feel that the quiet private faith shown by the English (in practicing their religion) is definitely preferable...after all, isn’t your faith something that is really just between you and your God? Don’t you belittle the faith of others if you make the presumption that they only have it because of tradition? Especially when they are in a country where it is perfectly acceptable to have no religion at all and that it’s not seen as unusual if someone states that they are either agnostic or atheist? Sorry if I seem a little ranty , like I said before, I’m not religious but I also feel that if religion is what helps you to make sense of life and death, then I’m happy for you. Just remember that in the U.K. (I’ll only say Scotland and England with any certainty as I’ve never lived in Northern Ireland or Wales) people are not pressured into being religious and as such don’t have to claim to be religious just because tradition or social norms dictate it.
Reading your comment has made me wonder - perhaps the quiet faith thing has something to do with the history of wars and political turmoil in the name of religion that happened over so many centuries it's just now ingrained in people to be a bit careful when it comes to religious expression? Like back in the day it was worse than the occasional death, people here and in Europe were really persecuted, some had to live a lie, some had to convert, some were executed, some become martyrs...
@@KimiJaciKai so very true. It could very well be the case that after decades in England of severe religious persecution, switching between Catholicism and Protestantism being the religion endorsed by the state, followed by Catholic’s and extremely devout Protestants being treated like pariahs. It only makes sense that people would want to keep their faith private. Leading to that becoming the norm to the subsequent generations. I do find a beauty to quiet faith though. It just seems to hold a devotion and confidence, you know, the type that doesn’t need the approval of others.
@@lynnejamieson2063 I agree, I think there is something...noble in that, similar to "being the change you want to see in the world" and just living by example - and some people would recognise admirable traits in such people and wonder what their secret is, and then the faith can be shared in a voluntary way :)
Johnson is just an ambitious workaholic who wants success but it is at the expense of private life. He ends up being a bank manager in the final series but had the show continued he wouldn't have stopped there and would be running or trying to set up his own bank or something.
"On Your Bike" does mean "Get Lost" or "Go Away". Other variations are "Do One", "Jog On" and in Glasgow, I've heard someone say "Bolt, Ya Prick" (not to me btw - lol!).
Id say the "cringy humor" is more an actual British stereotype with "awkward" humor or people. "Keep Calm and Carry On" is deffo something Brits still do. Brits are self depreciating and we very very rarely have heros in shows.
Set in a weirdly tramless Croydon. Perfect location as though a relatively small borough, there are representative areas of just about every class, from extreme poverty in concrete jungles to millionaire mansions near ancient woodland and large parks, all within walking distance (I live in Croydon and have never owned a car). Interestingly in the first series they rented filmed it in an actual Croydon flat, but they could not secure it, so recreated the entire thing in a studio. Their flat is about 30 minutes walk from the real life location of their local pub . . so not incredibly local. For more Croydon class comedy watch 'Uncle' which is on netflix.
Johnson is not really intended as a stereotypical character or representative of any particular type of boss. He is simply a weirdo that affects Mark's world, in the same way that Superhans is a weirdo who affects Jeremy's world. Johnson is just a more socially acceptable weirdo. He is an over-confident "alpha" personality who Mark is dazzled by, and is both intimidated by him and aspires to be like him. Johnson is seen by Mark as the type of ambitious go-getter that he wishes he could be. Of course, when JLB Credit eventually collapses, we see Johnson's true colours as he makes a hurriedly fast escape from the car park to avoid having to face his staff after telling them they've all just been made redundant , but even after that Mark is quite prepared to follow Johnson's advice and almost revels in being humiliated by him. It takes Mark a long time to realize that Johnson is not at all normal and not a good influence on him.
Just because the Cybermen didn't turn up while you were here doesn't mean Doctor Who isn't a reflection of British culture, used to be a regular occurrence
I think one real contrast between British and American culture is in how Jez is portrayed. In the *horrendous* US pilot of the show (clearly made by people who didn't understand anything about what was happening in the original), the Jez character is in his room making music and makes something that sounds great, then realises that he's just made an actual well known song that he likes. Jez in the UK version can't even use his equipment properly - he couldn't possibly make a cover of a song he loves, he wouldn't have the skills. This aspect of his character is playing off the stereotype of the talentless middle class artist - he has vague ideas and pretentions about art and can waffle on saying meaningful sounding but ultimately meaningless things about art, but has no actual skill. He's not a freeloading faker, he's a talentless hack who thinks that he has incredible artistic potential - the implied stereotype is that his cossetting middle class family will have constantly told him how great he is when he was young, and he believed it. Even if he's forced to face it at some point, he'll wash that out of his mind again at the first opportunity. It's quite a different stereotype from anything I've seen in an American show.
I smiled at "on your bike". It's '(time for you to get) on your bike' rather than '(wow, that's a fine way to get) on your bike'. It's perhaps the mirror image of my confusion over the US "way to go", which I now see is '(that's the) way to go' rather than, as I had assumed, '(you have a long) way to go'. Does that say something about national characters?
Class is an element of most British sitcoms. Not all of them, and it's rarely a significant part of the comedy, but a lot of characters can be defined by both their social class, and their relation to that class.
@@luxford60 Did you know that in the first draft, Wilson was to be the bank manager and captain. Switching the characters was a brilliant move. Despite being his technical superior, Mainwaring can never get over his inferiority complex.
I have to take issue with your assertion that Doctor Who is a show that just happens to be set in Britain. It is a part of the British psyche, something we have grown up with (in my case, since I was 1 year old, when the First Doctor appeared on our screens.) The various incarnations of the Doctor have all been various aspects of a British stereotype, the loveable eccentric, from various classes and parts of the UK over the years. If you want to see lots of British tutting, try suggesting on one of the Doctor Who forums that the Doctor could be anything other than British!!! I would love to see you guys reacting to the most British of all science fiction shows.
The whole "not trusting builders" thing ties into the class consciousness of the show. Tradespeople like builders, plumbers, electricians tend to come from a working class background. Insecure middle class people are in an awkward position where they earn more than tradespeople, but their comfortable suburban life relies on those people being able to fix everything that goes wrong in their house. Like they have the mindset that they deserve their middle-class lifestyle because they went to a good college and earned it, but at the same time they don't know how to do basic home maintenance on their middle-class homes, and are inherently distrustful of letting working-class plebs into their homes to fix things. Basically, insecurity is the driving force of the British middle class.
Watched a bunch of yr stuff today and know this is another old vid by you guys, but love that you've given Peep Show some sincere love. RE: yr final questiom Johnson (played by the excellent Patterson Joseph) imho is sui generis from a sitcom/Britcom standpoint. Johnson is Johnson!
Johnson represents the extreme stereotype of the materialistic and competitive in the U.K. . The same people you find on the Apprentice. These people are driven and blood thirsty, they will use and dump people to achieve their goals and targets. These aspirations usually look like big car, big house, beautiful partner so they can show them off to other like minded and shallow people. There is usually lack of empathy and this person is good at exploitation and manipulation. I'd imagine Johnson came from working class or lower class and has insecurities about being seen as poor , week and lazy. It's something that feels like it should be celebrated, what they have achieved, but it is usually at the cost of another person's well being. This culture may also be called "Yuppy culture", your Patrick Batemans' . In fact Patrick bateman is a good representation of Johnson. Shallow, materialistic and a sociopath.
Johnson is a social climber. He wasn't born into wealth & privilege like Suze or Jez, who have never had to worry about money. By contrast, the only things he cares about are money and outward signs of status. - He views Suze as a prize or symbol of his newfound status, literally trying to purchase her without knowing or caring about her as a person - He understands Mark's goals and that Mark looks up to him as someone who has achieved those goals, and is able to manipulate him through these - He has nothing but disdain for Jez, who was born into all the things Johnson aspired to but pissed them all away in pursuit of street cred
I'd stay im pretty solidly middle class, with working class parents (they were raised relatively poor and luckily for me managed to provide a very comfortable lifestyle). Like they grew up sharing bedrooms with siblings whereas myself and my sister went skiing. That kind of thing. I'm also from 'up norf' (northeast and northwest areas), so that may change certain things - like there being a strong working class culture. Context aside, I'd say middle class insecurity typically arises from trying to be better than you are, or atleast appear better than you are. Its caring more about how people percieve you. Working class pride is real and many people are proud of their solid working class roots. Being middle class is a point of ridicule/teasing from working class people, atleast it has been for me with working class friends. Also as a middle class person you're, unsurprisingly, caught in the middle. You're not wealthy or influential enough to be upper class and have the best and you're not working class enough to be considered a grafter of hard work (construction, plumbers etc). You're lumped in with the depressed middle management and corporate drones of the modern world. You're making just enough to uphold your middle class lifestyle but not enough to do whatever the fuck you like (hence the trying to appear better than you are). Theres more of a cultural emphasis on academic achievement, competition and getting a well paid job somewhere and due to the nature of it theres always someone going to be doing significantly better than you.
Omg as soon as they started saying that there were no heroes in this show, my first thought was "what about Super Hans?" I was not disappointed. He's a legend.
The BBC made a good tool to help you analyse your class which has changed massively from the 70s/80s would be worth a look. My family would have been all East end working class but have lifted themselves to a lower middle class a new group, the quiz shows great insight on all the things that add up to your perceived class.
Great analysis. I have loved Peep Show. We’ve all met people just like the characters. And their situations. They have just accentuated the flaws. I miss it!
We definitely have an issue with tradesmen, because there are far too many shysters out there who will overcharge for doing a rubbish job. It's very difficult to find reliable workmen, and most people try to obtain recommendations from friends or neighbours rather than picking someone out of Yellow Pages etc. Personally, I never employ anyone who only has a mobile phone number, because experience tells me that if there's a problem I'll never see them again, and I watch them all like a hawk!
Let me relate a tale. A friend of mine hired a mobile-only builder to do an extension. And, strangely it sort of worked. Yes, it was late (but by only two weeks), more expensive than he'd budgeted for (but it was liveable with), and the snagging was a bit extensive (but easily sorted). The final result was wonderful, or should I say, LOOKED wonderful. Oh, everything worked all right, but there were odd creaks in the night, and a feeling that the extension was "heavier" than the orignal house. A few years later, he was wanting to move and he had a survey done. Oh dear. That feeling that the extension was a bit "heavy"? Everthing in that extension was MASSIVELY OVER CODE! The surveyor said the builder hadn't built an extension, but a nuclear bunker with windows in it. Now, nothing was TECHNICALLY wrong with the extension, or it's relationship to the rest of the house, but it had to be mentioned in the sellers pack, both morally and legally. It cost him £20,000. And the mobile-only builder was nowhere to be found......
Even going by recommendation it is tricky. I found a house painter on the Checkatrade site and was given a customer in the next village to get a reference from. He said he was delighted with them, so I went ahead. We had to cancel the work because it was so bad, and ended up doing it ourselves. I realised I shouldn't have just taken the word of the customer who recommended them especially when I went round to look.
I wouldnt say the stuggling artist is a defining British stereotype. But they exist as they do in the US. But Superhans is spot on. Always down the pub, always doing odd jobs, a bit rough and has the wacky stories.
Jez is definitely a trust fund kid, middle class through and through, but increasingly slipping through precarity into the underclass. I watched it at broadcast, was a fan from day 1. Rewatched the whole thing earlier this year, watching it again was a trip. It feels contemporary at least as relevant now as it was at the time, if not more so. All the stuff essentially about toxic masculinity and the Chad / Virgin-beta stereotypes was very much ahead of its time. I don't recall the term "fuckboi" being a thing break when it was aired but I can't think of a better way of summing up Jez in a single word. The you don't need a car thing is very much a uk urban thing, or even a Lahndan 'ting. Johnson is one of the best things in the show. He's kind of a yuppie I suppose. Or even he's the alpha to Mark's beta. Like he oozes the signifiers of adulthood, coolness and intelligence but you also are given the impression that he's a jerk and maybe some of that is unwarranted. Like he's a guy that reads a lot of businessman's self help manuals and believes them.
Weird thing on the religion aspect. Britain is a religious nation that acts like a secular one. America is a secular nation that acts like a religious one.
@@jasonyoung7705 you're right - you have got it the right way round. I was thinking of Britain as mostly secular, but we often pretend to be vaguely religious by rocking up at Midnight mass or having children baptized
Awesome job guys! I'm glad you like Peep Show. I'm not sure what character Johnson is riffing on - I think he's unique, but if anything probably parodying the make-friends-and-influence people slick shallow American tough-guy businessman.
For cringe/farce humour - try 'The Booze cruise', and/or 'A Bit of a Do' -or- the ultimate MUST watch 'Abigail's Party' All older now - but still good.
Thank you for your videos that helped get me through lockdown. I have only just started commenting as I am still newish to TH-cam, so this is more a thank you note. I have been round US by Greyhound and so I sort of see things as mirror image to how you do. However I am from near Leeds and I often find I think more like you day an American would. I was thinking Peep show middle class stuff was sort of foreign as a typical fight not flight northerner, then you said almost what I was thinking. Perhaps I watched too much US TV as a kid.
Big Suze is almost a princess in real life. Shes also known as Lady Frederick Windsor. Yes, those Windsors. She's married to the son of the Queens cousin, Prince Michael of Kent.
Peep Show explores middle class anxieties very well. It doesn't portray or show any understanding of working class life. Andy the builder character is a grotesque, perhaps deliberately, because his life is a mystery to the predominantly middle class characters. Tradespeople such as Andy are portrayed as not to be trusted as the mddle class are envious of them due to the fact they earn very good money and mostly have a degree of control over their lives that escapes wage slaves like Mark. The closest stereotype for Johnson would be the self made business man I suppose. Maybe a bit like Alan Sugar. He probably would be from a working class background.
I actually think that Johnson's character is more of an american archetype. He's a narcissistic, cutthroat, hyper-macho business man like Patrick Bateman from American Psycho or The Wolf of Wall Street.
13:35 find this interesting. For me (English) i can empathise more with the British sitcom characters because I've been in similar embarrassing situations. i cant empathise with HIMYM or friends or what ever cos they always end up winning at the end of the day no matter how small the odds. real life isn't like that
Interesting view on the show, I think I need to watch more of it. Also makes me wonder if class is a bigger deal in some parts of the country. Round here no one bothers because we are all working class, no one is posh.
Watching the English is a pretty good insight into the English psyche unlike Hollywood's stereotypes.Just discovered your channel and it looks intelligent and interesting.I will subscribe.
I don't know if Johnson is a well used stereotype, but he really is one. The boss who is ruthless, and confident, but most of the time has no idea what he's doing; there are a lot of people like this. As for awkwardness, it has nothing to do with history. The closest thing you could argue is that Englands social structure has a lot of unwritten rules which change depending on what social class or grouping you are in, and therefore never really know what the rules of conduct are in any given situation. If course, there are also slight changes in this as you move around the country as well. There are north/south divides, east west divides, the occasional feuding cities, and that's before you get to the different contries which make up the UK.
You make a good point that the stars of British comedies are not necessarily heroes. Just seen an American comedy writer saying you have to make your main character likeable, so that you’ll root for them. Which definitely is not the case in British comedies. Alan Partridge is a character you are not supposed to like, you’re supposed to laugh at. Mark in Peep Show is likeable enough, and a decent person at heart. But you’re not rooting for him to get with Sophie. Not after he becomes creepily obsessed with her. Reading her emails and cutting her name into his arm. And of course when they finally get together it’s a disaster.
Historically the class system was pretty simple in terms of lower/middle/upper: lower were manual/"blue collar" workers; middle were office/"white collar" workers; upper were landed and titled, and I think it's still often seen this way. Those borders were pretty rigid too, even with wealth - you can have a millionaire celebrity who's still "working class", or an impoverished baron who may have inherited a noble title and a country mansion but is having to rent it out for weddings, long ago sold the family silver, has no actual income, and he would still be upper class. Everything else: actual wealth, education, family background, etc. moves you up and down within a class (e.g. an admin assistant who went to a state school and was the first in their family to go to university is likely to be "lower middle" class, whereas an academic who went to Eton and Oxford like their parents before them is likely to be "upper middle" class). Even things like your accent and the sort of people you socialise with will play into it as well: with no offence meant I think a lot of people with heavy northern or westcountry accents would struggle to be seen as anything more than "lower middle class" even if they would absolutely qualify by other measures. I would say the one exception to this can be family background, especially for working class people. A lot of rich, white-collar professionals still consider themselves working class if they come from a working class background: people like Alan Sugar, Ricky Gervais, etc.
Jez reminds me me of Mumford & Sons, children of the rich who play bland folk rock for the Grammys. And on "on your bike" is from the Tories in the 1980's, a condemnation of the unemployed, it means that if you can't find work where you are you need to get on your bike and travel to where there is work and it's come to mean 'go away, you're annoying me'
I think the not needing a car is more for people who live in and around London (note Peep Show is set in Croydon south of London) As a guy from South Manchester most ppl I know have a car and do drive in everyday life including myself.
... You dont have the right to say you hate Marmite IF the only time you've tried marmite was like a savage. Marmite is best enjoyed as a VERY THIN application to something like well buttered hot toast. Add a SLITHER of marmite to that and ugh... heaven. If you just eat some marmite and/or eat marmite in a disproportionate ratio to food, You aint allowed to say you dont like marmite >:z
2:42 Watching the English is such a great book. It's an anthropological study of English people. She talks about how many cups of tea it takes to finish a DIY project, and how we have more emotionally honest relationships with our pets than we do with each other. Recommended!
Interesting that you think Super Hans is kind of a hero but he tries to better himself. To a British person the fact that he comes out on top would suggest that he's manipulative & devious.
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“On yer bike” means get lost. “Good on yer” is what you can say for “good job”
I’ve now got to watch Peep Show, as I feel you’re reading too much into British comedy which is usually just a piss take and exaggeration of ourselves in a way that Americans don’t tend to do. However, as I’ve never watched an episode I can’t say for certain. Looking forward to your next video!!
Jez is definitely upper middle class but desperately wishes he was working class - hence his friendship with Super Hans. Mark is lower middle class but strives to be upper middle class, hence marrying Sophie even when not sure he even loves her. He also resents Jez because he wishes he had all the upper middle class opportunities he never had, hence his love for Jeremy's mother. I feel this is the essence of the show.
Super Hans is one of the most fantastically Degenerate Reprobates,in tv Comedy. He makes the most appalling situations,seem,somehow,not that bad or shameful. Jeremy is often drawn into His murky world,and it never ends well for him. I loved it straight away. It didn`t need to grow on me. I just thought "Yeah,this is my kinda shit".
Mark is not lower middle class - more middle middle. The Christmas episode shows that.
@@capitalb5889 I would agree that Mark is more middle middle class
privately educated mark is firmly in the middle class
@@davidscargil9145 Agreed, Super Hans is probably my favourite character of all time.
When Mark asks Jez where the pizza has gone: "Big Suze was hungry. She's rich Mark. she doesn't understand about not taking other people's stuff". Having met a few upper class girls (I'm very much working class) I can confirm that observation from Jez is quite accurate!
I concur. If you're English you must never lend a wealthy person cash that you can't afford to give away forever. They will forget they borrowed it, because money is unimportant to them. It isn't malicious, it's entirely innocent. But, being English, you will never find it in yourself to ask for the money back, lest you appear desperately poor.
Thank you for this insight! We forgot about that comment by Jez!
@@simonh This is so true, and it plays out in so many ways - from assuming you'll split the bill at a restaurant even though the poorest person had soup and water and the richest had steak and extra side dishes to buying rounds and it not occurring to them that their working class friend can't just buy 10 drinks at once when they probably budgeted for 3 or so! Wealthy friends take some managing.
This!
Funfact: Did you know that in real life Big Suze, actress Sophie Winkleman is even posher than in the show?
She married Lord Frederick Windsor, son of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent. So her hubby is a relation of the Queen and she now has the title of Lady Frederick Windsor.
Oh wow!! So she wasn't acting then haha
@@WanderingRavens she wasn't a toff when she was in peep show she married later on i think and her half sister is a TV presenter Claudia winkleman
Yes, she is upper middle class by background but married into the aristocracy in 2009. Her husband, Lord Frederick Windsor, is the only son of the Queen's cousin, Prince Michael of Kent.
Half sister apparently. Was a reoccurring guest actor on the USA hit series Two and Half Men.
Been in loads of stuff - she is excellent in Peep Show.
Is that the same Freddie Windsor that was swimming in coke as a teen?
Explaining middle class awkwardness is easy.
The Working class have nothing to lose,
The Upper class have nothing to gain,
The Middle classes have everything to gain and everything to lose.
This explains there obsession with image, this obsession leads to awkwardness.
Never thought of that but sounds bang on
Johnson is self-confident and self-important and considers himself above everyone else. He puts on a face to show he doesn't concern himself with anyone else, and I think this is why Mark looks up to him so much. He's pretty much everything Mark wants to be but would never have the confidence to try doing. I guess if it was an American high-school show he'd be the Jock character.
Thank you for explaining! This makes a lot of sense 😄
Stick that in your DoJo
I always saw Johnson as an insecure narcissistic type. Charming and successful, but his success relies solely on what other people can do for him; he knows how to manipulate the underdog.
He's a spiv. In the classic sense
Which makes it funnier as Mark is a want to be above spiv,
Johnson is trying to use a transatlantic ascent. So he is acting as an American businessman. Striving for success.. He drops his ascent when he is stressed.
Peep show has to be my favourite show of all time. Mark is so relatable 😂
As somone who is working class I recommend Victoria Wood's dinner ladies. Its so much like a day at work, its unreal.
Absolutely agree, almost like a documentary and brilliant TV. So sad we lost Victoria too soon.
Love Victoria Wood! Another classic working class British sitcom is The Royle Family! Caroline Aherne was another genius comic lost too soon.
Looove dinnerladies!!
Couldn't agree more, I watch it on Yesterday channel at the moment, seen it umpteen times and never get bored with it, so well written and acted.
While Peep Show is very much set in middle class culture, I think that the characters can be seen in other comedies.
"Whatever happened to the Likely Lads" was a 70s sitcom with two Northern working class men, but the characters are essentially Mark and Jez. One is desperately trying to get on and ingratiate himself with the middle classes. The other didn't care and is happy not joining the rat race. It's a slightly different take on class, but the fundamental dynamic between the characters is the same.
The great thing about Peep Show is that there are no stereotypes. They are all brilliantly written characters, with distinct personalities and motivations.
The entire show is full to the brim of stereotypes!
You guys might like I'm Alan Partridge. It's an unmistakably British show about the life of a middle-class middle-aged radio presenter who is going through a mid-life crisis. It's a fantastic cringe comedy packed full of subtle humour that perfectly illustrates a very particular kind of Englishman. It's definitely not for everyone, but I think it's excellent and a perfect example of British humour.
agreed. Alan partridge is flawless. and a great representation of the ways certain british people see class and race relations
There are no heroes in most British sitcoms definitely 😂 Such a good show, love Johnson. He’s not stereotypical, he’s just a brilliant character 😊
Johnsons a yuppie.
This is a good observation I never realised this. It's true that in the US you have Seinfeld, Raymond, whole cast of friends etc...they're all supposed to be the heroes whereas I think in the UK we're just what Americans would consider as meaner. British people love to laugh at and wind up others. Americans get offended by this behaviour. So our comedy culture reflects this, we enjoy laughing at 'fools' or 'losers' on TV, like David Brent, Peep Show cast, in fact it's in every comedy, even Mr Bean. Maybe because we are in fact generally quite low on self esteem as a nation and laughing at others makes us feel better!? Possibly...
Our class system is more complex than it first seems. Can be related to family background. Then you throw in people's occupation, political outlook and schooling. Where people, live their accents.
Yeah, its slowly being americanised and people conflate it purely with household income but its way way deeper than that. At home up north im often considered middle class but when I was down south I never felt like more of a pleb.
I once had a job in a cafe. A couple of men came in, really scruffy and unshaven and they ordered fillet steak and other expensive items. I went to the boss and asked him what should I do as these people didn't look as though they could pay for the food. The boss looked to see who I was talking about and said, "Those men have more money than any of our other customers, they just don't have to show it". He was right, they paid and tipped handsomely, telling me not to tell the boss or put it in the communal pot as I wouldn't see any of it. He was right too, people with real money here don't feel a need to show it. Those with new money will come down to the country and buy all the tweeds and go shooting, the old money just look rough. You two should take a look at The F***ing Fulfords".
You could have 2 men with very similar average incomes. One works in an office, as did his father, the other is a builder as was his father before him. It is likely that people would consider the first man middle-class and the second working-class.
@@Gingerninja800 yeah it's wired I'm form Hampshire but live in Liverpool and some people see me a higher in the class system than I am back home. I've really felt out of place just because of what class people see me as especially when that's not how I see myself.
@@vixen1143 I'm from Manchester living in the south, and it took me a while to realise how much my accent affected how I was perceived. A lady once said to me "you've actually got a good grasp of the English language"..... I didn't understand at the time, I just felt flattered 🙄
Are you familiar with "Common People" by Pulp? Fantastic song about British working class meeting upper middle class.
definitely, and a lot of pulp's output in that period was about working class life - Acrylic Afternoons, Disco 2000, Babies, or about clashes between the classes, like in I Spy; notably the bit that goes "I can't help it, I was dragged up, my favorite parks are car parks, grass is something you smoke, birds are something you shag, take your year in Provence and shove it up your arse" which uses a really popular mid-90s marker of middle-upper class (because who else can afford to take a year off to jolly it up in Provence?) to air more ordinary grievances.
as an aside, pulp are just brilliant.
I absolutely love that song! Big fan of Pulp and Blur. Brilliant. I'm the only kid on the block listening to that stuff though... here in Texas! LOL
I think that you got the bit about builders wrong. I think they trying to show how uncomfortable middle class Brits are dealing any trades person and therefore terrified at the potential consequences. You also missed Oscar winning actress Olivia Coleman in one of her early roles..
I think it’s a middle class thing - they are scared the workers will get the better of them
@@dianeferguson3555 Probably a combination of anxiety that the worker will get the better of them, guilt at having to be 'the boss' of the worker, and insecurity about not knowing how to fix stuff yourself and having to hire 'a man' to do it for you XD
I absolutely love Peep Show. I grew up in Essex in a working-class family and I find that Peep Show touches on the subtleties and idiosyncrasies of my life better than any other show. I think that a lot of the fun in cringe comedy comes from being able to laugh at the embarrassing parts of myself that the characters represent. When I see Mark do that strange social behaviour that I thought only I did, I suddenly feel less self-conscious about it and find a sense of liberation in being able to laugh at it. To me, the best British cringe-comedy seems to carry the message "We're all highly strung, embarrassing, and imperfect morons who do lots of embarrassing things. Let's celebrate that by laughing at ourselves and maybe then we won't care so much about it."
Same! It's so relatable, to me what they're saying in their heads is excatly what I think on a day to day basis. Peep show reminds us that we're all dumb, selfish arseholes who only care about ourselves. Also grew up in a working class family in Essex!
You guys could easily do a side channel on peep show reactions, it’d be huge over here
The whole builder thing is partly a hang over from the old days when trades were seen by middle and upper classes as additional (more expensive) servants to their comfortable lives and also partly because of fears that they (and this is particularly true of builder/ contractors) may be rouge/ cowboy and you'll have paid like £3000 (including a sizeable deposit) for only let's say half a wall to be built
I like the idea of a rouge cowboy :)
I think it's not that middle class Brits lack self-confidence, but that middle class Americans lack self-awareness. They don't worry about things like that because they neither know nor care how they appear to others. It's the same thing that makes them shout in public or send food back in restaurants. They have no sense of how ridiculous they appear to others, largely because in the US, people don't call each other out on things. in the UK, arrogance, rudeness, pride and vanity will all get you mocked. So we Brits grow up acutely aware of the judgement of others and Americans just don't.
You are confusing religion with churches. Americans do that a lot. I, for example, am an extremely religious and spiritual Christian druid. I never attend church, don't wear badges parading my faith and almost never talk about my beliefs, but every day, the most important thing in my life is the spiritual side. Americans always think their country is more spiritual, but it really isn't. So much over there is for show. Here, we don't have megachurches and pastors with sports cars. We have millions of people of various faiths, quietly living their religion. We also don't have mass shootings in the name of ours.
Bang on about cars and builders.
Again, the cringey humour doesn't work for Yanks because of that lack of self-awareness. You want a hero to identify with, we want a human being that we can relate to.
The Johnson one is an interesting point. I've definitely met people like that but I don't know if I'd call it a stereotype. I think the episode where Mark realises he might be a bit crazy is kind of what the whole thing has been building up to. The guy is a sociopath, possibly a psychopath, who is extremely good at passing off as someone that is more competent than everyone else when you first meet him. I do feel really sorry for Big Suze who clearly fell for his confidence act, it was inevitable they wouldn't go the distance but I do worry that Big Suze has a spot of Stockholm Syndrome.
Surely Johnson and Hans just represent the people Mark and Jez want to be but never can.
Great video. As a long time PS fan I've often wondered what people from the USA think of the show. To date there have been three US remakes of PS that didn't make it past the pilot episode.
Peep Show is one of the funniest shows ever made. And it’s not a comedy show, it’s actually a documentary.
Is it a fu-cumentary? 😂🤣😂
Watched the whole lot 6 times at least ,you just never get bored of it .Absolute classic
Never really thought about Peep Show in terms of class. I think social mobility has improved a lot in the UK in recent decades.
Yeah, its much easier to end up homeless now.
Social mobility is dramatically less stagnant than the US. America is significantly more stratified, only they've been more conditioned to ignore it
What Peep Show has to say about British culture: "the secret ingredient is crime"
My thoughts exactly 😂
You should be paying me to read this shit
I think the difference between American humour and British humour is that American humour is generally '... isn't it funny that ...' whereas British humour is '... wouldn't it be funny if ...'.
Johnson and Super Hans embody the qualities that Mark and Jez wish they had (business acumen & street-cred).
yes, exactly
When Jeremy says to Super-Hans, when they're considering opening a pub together, "Can we not call it Free The Pedos?".
Peep Show is one of my all time favourite shows. It's just so relatable, if your English. If you want to know what it really means and is like to be English, then all you need to do is what this and The Inbetweeners. They are both practically documentaries.
Also you missed a trick, not calling the video "A Peep Into British Culture".
Lol not really watch shows like Waterloo road
Add Fresh Meat between them and you are spot on
Forgive me because I'm not sure but isn't Curb Your Enthusiasm cringe comedy? The creator was a great inspiration for Ricky Gervais. That's why he loves making cringe comedy.
Curb your Enthusiasm is the greatest.
Johnson isn't a stereotype , he is just a foil for Mark's insecurities
I'm from North East England & I've binged pretty much all your vids in the last week. I love how enthusiastic you guys are about our shitty little Island and you've made me smile so much in the last week. xD
Where would you rather live that’s less “shitty”?
@@Philotus wouldn't wanna live anywhere else, I love it lol
Johnson is a prime example of the legacy of Thatcher's Britain. Just tread on everyone below you to get what you want. It's all about me !
Everyone that watches it wants to be Hands but are actually are Mark. ‘Don’t say crack Jez’...best line ever.
The thing is, that all these people are terrible. However, you will meet people like them wherever you go. We do not all conform to these stereotypes, but there is a lot of them out there. Really, there is. And they are all risible. You do need a strength of character yourself to recognize them, and relate to them as well, because they cannot be escaped.
"all these people are terrible" Really ? Mark and Jeremy are not terrible, they both have many faults but they are also essentially decent men. Dobby is the most caring character in the series, and even Superhans improves as time goes on.
I am going to have to watch the Peep Show again as well as Mitchell and Webbs new show called Back.
I've just been watching Back. As I live around the place it is filmed, I would say it was more "realistic". Ha ha
The reason you don't understand Johnson, is because Johnson is a try-hard self-help book buying go-getter. In other words, he's Peep Show's American. 😉 Present company excluded.
I have never watched The Peep Show but, from your comparison of the way British people are religious to the way that Americans are doesn’t resonate with my observations (as a Scot who has lived in various parts of England for most of their adult life). In England people have a very quiet faith on the whole, one that is not born out of tradition but true faith. It doesn’t make you more religious to try and force it down other people’s throats. It doesn’t make you more religious to insist that others practice their religion in the same way that you do and it certainly doesn’t make you more religious if you try your hardest to profit from the faith of others. I am not a religious person but I was brought up in The Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) in a part of the country that is quite vocally and physically sectarian...the sort of place where people often asked which school you went to, just to ascertain whether you were Catholic or Protestant. So I grew up in a place where being very vocal about your religion (and football team allegiance) resulted in violence and occasionally death and as a result, I can’t help but feel that the quiet private faith shown by the English (in practicing their religion) is definitely preferable...after all, isn’t your faith something that is really just between you and your God? Don’t you belittle the faith of others if you make the presumption that they only have it because of tradition? Especially when they are in a country where it is perfectly acceptable to have no religion at all and that it’s not seen as unusual if someone states that they are either agnostic or atheist? Sorry if I seem a little ranty , like I said before, I’m not religious but I also feel that if religion is what helps you to make sense of life and death, then I’m happy for you. Just remember that in the U.K. (I’ll only say Scotland and England with any certainty as I’ve never lived in Northern Ireland or Wales) people are not pressured into being religious and as such don’t have to claim to be religious just because tradition or social norms dictate it.
Reading your comment has made me wonder - perhaps the quiet faith thing has something to do with the history of wars and political turmoil in the name of religion that happened over so many centuries it's just now ingrained in people to be a bit careful when it comes to religious expression? Like back in the day it was worse than the occasional death, people here and in Europe were really persecuted, some had to live a lie, some had to convert, some were executed, some become martyrs...
@@KimiJaciKai so very true. It could very well be the case that after decades in England of severe religious persecution, switching between Catholicism and Protestantism being the religion endorsed by the state, followed by Catholic’s and extremely devout Protestants being treated like pariahs. It only makes sense that people would want to keep their faith private. Leading to that becoming the norm to the subsequent generations. I do find a beauty to quiet faith though. It just seems to hold a devotion and confidence, you know, the type that doesn’t need the approval of others.
@@lynnejamieson2063 I agree, I think there is something...noble in that, similar to "being the change you want to see in the world" and just living by example - and some people would recognise admirable traits in such people and wonder what their secret is, and then the faith can be shared in a voluntary way :)
Johnson is just an ambitious workaholic who wants success but it is at the expense of private life. He ends up being a bank manager in the final series but had the show continued he wouldn't have stopped there and would be running or trying to set up his own bank or something.
"On Your Bike" does mean "Get Lost" or "Go Away".
Other variations are "Do One", "Jog On" and in Glasgow, I've heard someone say "Bolt, Ya Prick" (not to me btw - lol!).
Johnson doesn't fit in to a stereotype because he's just a great character. Not all the characters have to fit into a box
Big Suze (Sophie Winkleman) upper class? Sophie's father in law is the Queens cousin.
Id say the "cringy humor" is more an actual British stereotype with "awkward" humor or people. "Keep Calm and Carry On" is deffo something Brits still do.
Brits are self depreciating and we very very rarely have heros in shows.
It's interesting that you guys got so caught up on the class system.
Set in a weirdly tramless Croydon. Perfect location as though a relatively small borough, there are representative areas of just about every class, from extreme poverty in concrete jungles to millionaire mansions near ancient woodland and large parks, all within walking distance (I live in Croydon and have never owned a car).
Interestingly in the first series they rented filmed it in an actual Croydon flat, but they could not secure it, so recreated the entire thing in a studio. Their flat is about 30 minutes walk from the real life location of their local pub . . so not incredibly local. For more Croydon class comedy watch 'Uncle' which is on netflix.
I've looked at a flat in that block on Rightmove - it had exactly the same layout 😄
Some great observations. A non-obvious show that deals with the US class system is 'You' which is well worth watching, you should watch and compare!
Johnson is not really intended as a stereotypical character or representative of any particular type of boss. He is simply a weirdo that affects Mark's world, in the same way that Superhans is a weirdo who affects Jeremy's world. Johnson is just a more socially acceptable weirdo. He is an over-confident "alpha" personality who Mark is dazzled by, and is both intimidated by him and aspires to be like him. Johnson is seen by Mark as the type of ambitious go-getter that he wishes he could be. Of course, when JLB Credit eventually collapses, we see Johnson's true colours as he makes a hurriedly fast escape from the car park to avoid having to face his staff after telling them they've all just been made redundant , but even after that Mark is quite prepared to follow Johnson's advice and almost revels in being humiliated by him. It takes Mark a long time to realize that Johnson is not at all normal and not a good influence on him.
Just because the Cybermen didn't turn up while you were here doesn't mean Doctor Who isn't a reflection of British culture, used to be a regular occurrence
I think one real contrast between British and American culture is in how Jez is portrayed. In the *horrendous* US pilot of the show (clearly made by people who didn't understand anything about what was happening in the original), the Jez character is in his room making music and makes something that sounds great, then realises that he's just made an actual well known song that he likes. Jez in the UK version can't even use his equipment properly - he couldn't possibly make a cover of a song he loves, he wouldn't have the skills. This aspect of his character is playing off the stereotype of the talentless middle class artist - he has vague ideas and pretentions about art and can waffle on saying meaningful sounding but ultimately meaningless things about art, but has no actual skill. He's not a freeloading faker, he's a talentless hack who thinks that he has incredible artistic potential - the implied stereotype is that his cossetting middle class family will have constantly told him how great he is when he was young, and he believed it. Even if he's forced to face it at some point, he'll wash that out of his mind again at the first opportunity. It's quite a different stereotype from anything I've seen in an American show.
You hit it right on the head. British humour very rarely has a hero
just discovered you guys today, love your analysis of our culture and look forward to watching more of your videos! :D great work
I smiled at "on your bike". It's '(time for you to get) on your bike' rather than '(wow, that's a fine way to get) on your bike'. It's perhaps the mirror image of my confusion over the US "way to go", which I now see is '(that's the) way to go' rather than, as I had assumed, '(you have a long) way to go'. Does that say something about national characters?
Class is an element of most British sitcoms. Not all of them, and it's rarely a significant part of the comedy, but a lot of characters can be defined by both their social class, and their relation to that class.
Dad's Army does that particularly well in the relationship between Wilson and Mainwaring.
@@capitalb5889 Absolutely. It's beautifully underplayed.
@@luxford60 Did you know that in the first draft, Wilson was to be the bank manager and captain. Switching the characters was a brilliant move. Despite being his technical superior, Mainwaring can never get over his inferiority complex.
I have to take issue with your assertion that Doctor Who is a show that just happens to be set in Britain. It is a part of the British psyche, something we have grown up with (in my case, since I was 1 year old, when the First Doctor appeared on our screens.) The various incarnations of the Doctor have all been various aspects of a British stereotype, the loveable eccentric, from various classes and parts of the UK over the years.
If you want to see lots of British tutting, try suggesting on one of the Doctor Who forums that the Doctor could be anything other than British!!!
I would love to see you guys reacting to the most British of all science fiction shows.
Completely agree, it’s a thoroughly British show
The whole "not trusting builders" thing ties into the class consciousness of the show. Tradespeople like builders, plumbers, electricians tend to come from a working class background. Insecure middle class people are in an awkward position where they earn more than tradespeople, but their comfortable suburban life relies on those people being able to fix everything that goes wrong in their house.
Like they have the mindset that they deserve their middle-class lifestyle because they went to a good college and earned it, but at the same time they don't know how to do basic home maintenance on their middle-class homes, and are inherently distrustful of letting working-class plebs into their homes to fix things.
Basically, insecurity is the driving force of the British middle class.
Watched a bunch of yr stuff today and know this is another old vid by you guys, but love that you've given Peep Show some sincere love. RE: yr final questiom Johnson (played by the excellent Patterson Joseph) imho is sui generis from a sitcom/Britcom standpoint. Johnson is Johnson!
Johnson represents the extreme stereotype of the materialistic and competitive in the U.K. . The same people you find on the Apprentice. These people are driven and blood thirsty, they will use and dump people to achieve their goals and targets. These aspirations usually look like big car, big house, beautiful partner so they can show them off to other like minded and shallow people. There is usually lack of empathy and this person is good at exploitation and manipulation. I'd imagine Johnson came from working class or lower class and has insecurities about being seen as poor , week and lazy. It's something that feels like it should be celebrated, what they have achieved, but it is usually at the cost of another person's well being. This culture may also be called "Yuppy culture", your Patrick Batemans' . In fact Patrick bateman is a good representation of Johnson. Shallow, materialistic and a sociopath.
Johnson is a social climber. He wasn't born into wealth & privilege like Suze or Jez, who have never had to worry about money. By contrast, the only things he cares about are money and outward signs of status.
- He views Suze as a prize or symbol of his newfound status, literally trying to purchase her without knowing or caring about her as a person
- He understands Mark's goals and that Mark looks up to him as someone who has achieved those goals, and is able to manipulate him through these
- He has nothing but disdain for Jez, who was born into all the things Johnson aspired to but pissed them all away in pursuit of street cred
I'd stay im pretty solidly middle class, with working class parents (they were raised relatively poor and luckily for me managed to provide a very comfortable lifestyle).
Like they grew up sharing bedrooms with siblings whereas myself and my sister went skiing. That kind of thing.
I'm also from 'up norf' (northeast and northwest areas), so that may change certain things - like there being a strong working class culture.
Context aside, I'd say middle class insecurity typically arises from trying to be better than you are, or atleast appear better than you are. Its caring more about how people percieve you. Working class pride is real and many people are proud of their solid working class roots. Being middle class is a point of ridicule/teasing from working class people, atleast it has been for me with working class friends.
Also as a middle class person you're, unsurprisingly, caught in the middle. You're not wealthy or influential enough to be upper class and have the best and you're not working class enough to be considered a grafter of hard work (construction, plumbers etc). You're lumped in with the depressed middle management and corporate drones of the modern world. You're making just enough to uphold your middle class lifestyle but not enough to do whatever the fuck you like (hence the trying to appear better than you are). Theres more of a cultural emphasis on academic achievement, competition and getting a well paid job somewhere and due to the nature of it theres always someone going to be doing significantly better than you.
Omg as soon as they started saying that there were no heroes in this show, my first thought was "what about Super Hans?" I was not disappointed. He's a legend.
The BBC made a good tool to help you analyse your class which has changed massively from the 70s/80s would be worth a look. My family would have been all East end working class but have lifted themselves to a lower middle class a new group, the quiz shows great insight on all the things that add up to your perceived class.
Great analysis. I have loved Peep Show. We’ve all met people just like the characters. And their situations. They have just accentuated the flaws. I miss it!
Peep show is in my top five of all time comedies 👍
Top observance on conflict avoidance. It’s all built into the passive-aggressive system.
Looking at each character and assuming it is satisfying a stereotype could be a mistake. Can’t a character be a character in its own right?
We definitely have an issue with tradesmen, because there are far too many shysters out there who will overcharge for doing a rubbish job. It's very difficult to find reliable workmen, and most people try to obtain recommendations from friends or neighbours rather than picking someone out of Yellow Pages etc. Personally, I never employ anyone who only has a mobile phone number, because experience tells me that if there's a problem I'll never see them again, and I watch them all like a hawk!
That's a shame, because where I work we only have a mobile number, and yet we sell all round the world.
Let me relate a tale. A friend of mine hired a mobile-only builder to do an extension. And, strangely it sort of worked. Yes, it was late (but by only two weeks), more expensive than he'd budgeted for (but it was liveable with), and the snagging was a bit extensive (but easily sorted). The final result was wonderful, or should I say, LOOKED wonderful. Oh, everything worked all right, but there were odd creaks in the night, and a feeling that the extension was "heavier" than the orignal house. A few years later, he was wanting to move and he had a survey done. Oh dear. That feeling that the extension was a bit "heavy"? Everthing in that extension was MASSIVELY OVER CODE! The surveyor said the builder hadn't built an extension, but a nuclear bunker with windows in it. Now, nothing was TECHNICALLY wrong with the extension, or it's relationship to the rest of the house, but it had to be mentioned in the sellers pack, both morally and legally. It cost him £20,000. And the mobile-only builder was nowhere to be found......
Even going by recommendation it is tricky. I found a house painter on the Checkatrade site and was given a customer in the next village to get a reference from. He said he was delighted with them, so I went ahead. We had to cancel the work because it was so bad, and ended up doing it ourselves. I realised I shouldn't have just taken the word of the customer who recommended them especially when I went round to look.
I wouldnt say the stuggling artist is a defining British stereotype. But they exist as they do in the US. But Superhans is spot on. Always down the pub, always doing odd jobs, a bit rough and has the wacky stories.
Jez is definitely a trust fund kid, middle class through and through, but increasingly slipping through precarity into the underclass.
I watched it at broadcast, was a fan from day 1. Rewatched the whole thing earlier this year, watching it again was a trip. It feels contemporary at least as relevant now as it was at the time, if not more so. All the stuff essentially about toxic masculinity and the Chad / Virgin-beta stereotypes was very much ahead of its time. I don't recall the term "fuckboi" being a thing break when it was aired but I can't think of a better way of summing up Jez in a single word.
The you don't need a car thing is very much a uk urban thing, or even a Lahndan 'ting.
Johnson is one of the best things in the show. He's kind of a yuppie I suppose. Or even he's the alpha to Mark's beta. Like he oozes the signifiers of adulthood, coolness and intelligence but you also are given the impression that he's a jerk and maybe some of that is unwarranted. Like he's a guy that reads a lot of businessman's self help manuals and believes them.
You should watch the F***ing Fulfords for another take on class!
Weird thing on the religion aspect.
Britain is a religious nation that acts like a secular one.
America is a secular nation that acts like a religious one.
No. You got those two comments the wrong way round.
@@capitalb5889 I really didn't.
@@jasonyoung7705 you're right - you have got it the right way round. I was thinking of Britain as mostly secular, but we often pretend to be vaguely religious by rocking up at Midnight mass or having children baptized
Awesome job guys! I'm glad you like Peep Show. I'm not sure what character Johnson is riffing on - I think he's unique, but if anything probably parodying the make-friends-and-influence people slick shallow American tough-guy businessman.
For cringe/farce humour - try 'The Booze cruise', and/or 'A Bit of a Do' -or- the ultimate MUST watch 'Abigail's Party'
All older now - but still good.
Thank you for your videos that helped get me through lockdown. I have only just started commenting as I am still newish to TH-cam, so this is more a thank you note. I have been round US by Greyhound and so I sort of see things as mirror image to how you do. However I am from near Leeds and I often find I think more like you day an American would. I was thinking Peep show middle class stuff was sort of foreign as a typical fight not flight northerner, then you said almost what I was thinking. Perhaps I watched too much US TV as a kid.
Big Suze is almost a princess in real life. Shes also known as Lady Frederick Windsor. Yes, those Windsors. She's married to the son of the Queens cousin, Prince Michael of Kent.
Peep Show explores middle class anxieties very well. It doesn't portray or show any understanding of working class life. Andy the builder character is a grotesque, perhaps deliberately, because his life is a mystery to the predominantly middle class characters. Tradespeople such as Andy are portrayed as not to be trusted as the mddle class are envious of them due to the fact they earn very good money and mostly have a degree of control over their lives that escapes wage slaves like Mark.
The closest stereotype for Johnson would be the self made business man I suppose. Maybe a bit like Alan Sugar. He probably would be from a working class background.
2:00 Classic sketch - should be required watching before travel to the UK :-)
I actually think that Johnson's character is more of an american archetype. He's a narcissistic, cutthroat, hyper-macho business man like Patrick Bateman from American Psycho or The Wolf of Wall Street.
Inherited class vs earnt class. Mark, Jeremy, Sophie all born into middle class but have slipped into working class without parents money.
Sophie is very rich, or at least her parents are.
@@capitalb5889 yeah. Thats pretty much what I said
13:35 find this interesting. For me (English) i can empathise more with the British sitcom characters because I've been in similar embarrassing situations. i cant empathise with HIMYM or friends or what ever cos they always end up winning at the end of the day no matter how small the odds. real life isn't like that
"On yer bike!" - means 'get a job'... it comes from Norman Tebbit 'telling off' the working classes in parliament...
Interesting view on the show, I think I need to watch more of it. Also makes me wonder if class is a bigger deal in some parts of the country. Round here no one bothers because we are all working class, no one is posh.
If you like peep show, you might like spaced it's quite brit infused and has great comedian actors like Simon pegg and nick frost
Watching the English is a pretty good insight into the English psyche unlike Hollywood's stereotypes.Just discovered your channel and it looks intelligent and interesting.I will subscribe.
I don't know if Johnson is a well used stereotype, but he really is one. The boss who is ruthless, and confident, but most of the time has no idea what he's doing; there are a lot of people like this.
As for awkwardness, it has nothing to do with history. The closest thing you could argue is that Englands social structure has a lot of unwritten rules which change depending on what social class or grouping you are in, and therefore never really know what the rules of conduct are in any given situation. If course, there are also slight changes in this as you move around the country as well. There are north/south divides, east west divides, the occasional feuding cities, and that's before you get to the different contries which make up the UK.
You make a good point that the stars of British comedies are not necessarily heroes.
Just seen an American comedy writer saying you have to make your main character likeable, so that you’ll root for them.
Which definitely is not the case in British comedies. Alan Partridge is a character you are not supposed to like, you’re supposed to laugh at.
Mark in Peep Show is likeable enough, and a decent person at heart. But you’re not rooting for him to get with Sophie. Not after he becomes creepily obsessed with her. Reading her emails and cutting her name into his arm. And of course when they finally get together it’s a disaster.
Historically the class system was pretty simple in terms of lower/middle/upper: lower were manual/"blue collar" workers; middle were office/"white collar" workers; upper were landed and titled, and I think it's still often seen this way. Those borders were pretty rigid too, even with wealth - you can have a millionaire celebrity who's still "working class", or an impoverished baron who may have inherited a noble title and a country mansion but is having to rent it out for weddings, long ago sold the family silver, has no actual income, and he would still be upper class.
Everything else: actual wealth, education, family background, etc. moves you up and down within a class (e.g. an admin assistant who went to a state school and was the first in their family to go to university is likely to be "lower middle" class, whereas an academic who went to Eton and Oxford like their parents before them is likely to be "upper middle" class). Even things like your accent and the sort of people you socialise with will play into it as well: with no offence meant I think a lot of people with heavy northern or westcountry accents would struggle to be seen as anything more than "lower middle class" even if they would absolutely qualify by other measures.
I would say the one exception to this can be family background, especially for working class people. A lot of rich, white-collar professionals still consider themselves working class if they come from a working class background: people like Alan Sugar, Ricky Gervais, etc.
Jez reminds me me of Mumford & Sons, children of the rich who play bland folk rock for the Grammys. And on "on your bike" is from the Tories in the 1980's, a condemnation of the unemployed, it means that if you can't find work where you are you need to get on your bike and travel to where there is work and it's come to mean 'go away, you're annoying me'
"On your bike" is a phrase that long predates the usage by Norman Tebbit
People are 'religious' in the UK mainly because it gives you something to put in the box on the form.
I think the not needing a car is more for people who live in and around London (note Peep Show is set in Croydon south of London)
As a guy from South Manchester most ppl I know have a car and do drive in everyday life including myself.
I've sometimes heard Artist described as Professionally Unemployed
id say most characters in peep show stand as the things mark isnt. johnson represents confidence.
... You dont have the right to say you hate Marmite IF the only time you've tried marmite was like a savage. Marmite is best enjoyed as a VERY THIN application to something like well buttered hot toast. Add a SLITHER of marmite to that and ugh... heaven. If you just eat some marmite and/or eat marmite in a disproportionate ratio to food, You aint allowed to say you dont like marmite >:z
Never could take to Peep Show, That said can see how it shows our culture in a comedic way hehe
2:42 Watching the English is such a great book. It's an anthropological study of English people. She talks about how many cups of tea it takes to finish a DIY project, and how we have more emotionally honest relationships with our pets than we do with each other. Recommended!
I think Johnson is more of an American archetype.... confident, brash, etc
You should check out Bottom, starring Rik Mayell. It's about two nutcases who are the dregs of society, it's a classic.
You two should watch "The Royale Family" it's a great sitcom
Interesting that you think Super Hans is kind of a hero but he tries to better himself. To a British person the fact that he comes out on top would suggest that he's manipulative & devious.