BMW Lied Again! - G87 M2 Should Not Be Making This Much Power
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2023
- Time to see if BMW lied again. With my experience, most BMWs tend to make more power than advertised. Time to see if that is the case with my new 2023 BMW G87 M2.
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*Correction:* My Supra made 378WHP stock, not "478WHP". Also The 60-130MPH was a 3rd gear pull, not 6th.
Yeah I was like wait what
Do you think Toyota will release a S58 powered Supra?? I hope so. What are your thoughts??
@@jmccarsnmore1025 I doubt it but I agree that would be sick
@@jmccarsnmore1025 Nah not a S58 Toyota should release a new inline 6 that gives it more of a supra feel if that makes sense
@@DonsGreenNature I think the Toyota G16E-GTS engine is the beginning to their next I6 engines. And you have to understand, all Toyota performance engines were codeveloped with Yamaha. Smartest thing they did was to collab with BMW. I’m pretty sure new B58s are more reliable than those on BMW F-Chassis, thanks to Toyota. The S58 is no exception.
Let them lie, cheaper insurance for everyone 😅
BMW can keep lying to us in that regard, for all I care!! Can’t wait to see this car with full exhaust, intake including water-cooler manifold and every aftermarket oil cooler in the market.
BMW doesn't lie. They just don't factor in that Florida gas!!
Facts
Wdym
Nah man. It’s Mexican gas.
97-99ron is average in europe lol
@@Mp-jw1qg it’s the same as 93 bud.
My 650i makes more than claimed it shocked me because this is my first German car and I’ve never experienced power like this before
maybe BMW have surprise factor like what they really want customers to think about it😂
At this point, this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. They’ve been doing it for years now . I watched a guy and his stepdad slap a Eventuri system on a M2CS and dyno it. They looked at the dyno numbers and were in awe. They didn’t know what to think 😂.
Not me looking like "this dude look kinda familiar" then see you pass a Semoron sign 😅 out here in my neck of the woods 🙏
Pleasant surprise with the high dyno hp numbers, but also expected better performance testing numbers on the street with that kind of power.
The 60-130 numbers definitely threw me off.
The car is surprisingly super heavy, and the manual is significantly slower than the 8 speed
@@metno_ Must be. My old E90 335i 6AT dynod at 580whp and it did a 3.2 sec 0-60 on the street and a 7.35 sec 60-130mph. With the M2 dynoing only 100whp less, it shouldn’t be 4 secs slower 60-130mph. Weight and manual of the M2 may be some reasons.
that's because it does not have 470 whp. Of course it does not have not even close to 470 whp, that's bs. The clock does not lie, the dyno does.
@@mariodiniz21 I’ve seen another dyno with those kinds of numbers, so I don’t think the dynos are lying.
BMW engineering must of been on something when they said them numbers 😂🤣
BMW proved few years ago that the M2 competition F87 manual is as quick as the M2 competition F87 DCT automatic. So the end result was the Manual version did a 0 to 100km/h time in 3.9s and the DCT did in 4.0s it was actually the 0.1s quicker than the DCT. A lot of people's expect to buy the car and perfectly do 0 to 100 every single time but this is not how it works. Tire preasure, are your tire warm enough, road conditions, gearbox oil temperature, weather, the driver, extra kg, M menu setup etc. So don't blame the brand, blame the conditions and everything else. If you want to get under 4s every single time you should buy a M5/ M8 than
In my manual bmw i start in 3rd gear for 100-200 and also 60-130 times, whats your 100-200 times in your dragy , interesting watch btw
I think it is more or less we are still using 15% conservative loss on dynos creating such of huge variation. The advancement in transmission and drivetrain has a lot to do with it. There is no real way to test it, but my guess is the modern transmission and drivetrain reduced the parasitic loss by miles compare to 20-30 years or even 10 years ago when 15% was seen as the minimal and the norm. The cars definitely make more power than advertise, but as far as how much power more might need to be reconsidered.
yes but you are forgetting big numbers means more views , sod the truth !
BMW started understating their power when their cars started to weigh more than Cadillac.
Please remember two major things: 1
1st - engine performance (official data) is measured in standardized conditions (most important is air temperature, at around 20.5 deg Celsius). In average every 5 deg difference your engine gets approx 1% more/less power and torque. So if you measure at 0 deg Celsius, your engine shall make about 104% of nominal power.
2. Engine manufacturers usually setup engines to provide not less then sold. Just in case any "less optimized" instance of engine would deliver slightly less. To avoid any potential problems with warrancy / exchange / unnecessary bad publicity.
i believe bmw m dyno tests their engines right after they assemble them and do run in at the factory as well.
@@westsidecamper It does not matter when they measure it. Direct measurement (on bench) is more precise, as you eliminate indirect (on wheels) measurement errors.
@@curiczirakleta4249 it does matter. Different dynos measure differently. I was just adding to your second point that they wouldn't let an underpowered engine go out.
@@westsidecamper I expressed myself unprecisely. Of course, it does matter. But regardless of method, engines are set to have power advantage.
Third major thing. The first cars are journalist cars. They make more power.
Traded my 2019 Comp a couple of months ago for the 2023 in Zandvoord blue, both manual trans. Was not too sure at the beginning but starting to love it. So far I’ve not seen another one in Miami. Looking forward to seeing your mods. You need a custom plate ;)
I have a 335i 2012 N55 155,000 milage. MHD Stage 2+
Downpipe, intercooler 7’5, cool sparks plugs, charge pipe and after market intake.
What clutch stage 3 daily drive you recommend? Thanks!!!
Most NA's make less on a dyno than BMW state. However, I have long held the belief this is because the ECUs adapt to the fuel you put in and retain those timing settings. My e46 was dyno'd at 315hp at the fly before I bought it. I reset the adaptations and it made 338hp and felt it too.
Sry for sounding dumb but how to reset adaptions and what they do?
@@jdrifts5938 not a dumb question at all. The ECU is constantly adapting to driving situations, what fuel you put in, how you drive it, air temps etc etc. It uses that information to adjust timing and fueling which all has positive or negative effects on power. If your car has been run on low quality fuel, it'll have pulled your timing to stop it knocking and eventually it just keeps that setting.
To reset them you need to get INPA and an OBD2 cable and a lot of patience
@@matthewnicholas6365 I might try it, my throttle is pretty aggressive on the e46, would be nice to change that at least
Why do you have to go 60 mph through a busy residential area (where children are playing, among other things)? - Totally senseless. Cool car though
Great vid but I think there would be more suitable spots to do your sprints ? Anyhow, BMW's always deliver more hp as long as your fuel is right. Overhere in the EU we go up to 98 octane (Aral/BP ron102). BMW just adjusts and delivers 5-10pct on top of advertised values when running that fuel. Higher ethanol containing fuels is also something the engines seem to love. They also respond to the environmental conditions pretty well. My 2013 F10 M5 was pushing well over 625hp with an exhaust and airfilters, my F80M3 pushed 480hp and the M2 comp layed down close to 500hp with catted DP, exhaust and eventuri intakes. All without tune. With tune it even goes further, as you know, your S58 engine will be able to push 700+hp with DP + tune only, which is really completely out of this world (and hardly sprintable I would assume). Keep up the good work.
130 in a school zone
@@DCAP-BTLS right? jfc
Love the VHS filter at the beginning
I'm a BMW service writer and this is 100% true. Another nuance that some BMW owners do not know. The speedometer shows faster roughly 8 to 10% the faster you go, but in my opinion that still doesn't prevent them from getting speeding tickets. Lol
no one else feel like BMW is just giving us WHP ratings and not crank? all the WHP numbers are so close to the rated "crank" hp advertised.
That is how they seem to do it, and it's the same with Porsche
@@mitchellh4028 No it is not. USA dynos are calibrated to spit out high numbers. In EU best dyno is BAPRO. One we roll them here they are all within factory CHP rating.
For example we have fk8 putting down 300-305chp where in USA I have seen them anywhere from 285-295WHP... That is just false data.
@@CL9k24a3 what? Why would you assume the whole country is doing something wrong 🤣🤣
@@CL9k24a3not really my F87 M4 here in South Africa measured 315kw on the wheels which is what bmw quote at the crank
So happy about it though... after years of MFR claims seeming... optimistic at best, flat out lies at worst, this is refreshing. Love my G01 X3 M40i. A 350 ish AWHP midsize family daily is pretty friggen awesome.... It's a riot, even stock. Can't wait to make it pull harder up top, falls of HARD at 5k now. Ironically, it feels a LOT like my R56 Mini Cooper S. Similar handling characteristics too IMO, but fast out of the corners with the AWD, less body roll, more suspension travel, but also WAY more mass. Steering is pretty similar, mini was obviously more eager, but it's funny the similarities. Even my dad who has been through two Cayennes since without me mentioning it at all immediately said it reminded him of his R56. High praise for a 4300lb cuv.
I wonder how much more power gain from aftermarket intake.
All late M cars run 95 octane at BMW dyno in germany and all HP is calculated Wheel HP they have been doing it for about ten years now.
What gear did you do that dyno pull in?
I wonder what my B58TU on my 23 x3M40i makes to the wheels ?
Man I really don’t know what to get a Kia stinger Gt2 awd, or a bmw m2!! Anyone got some opinions about these cars?
hol' up my 19t NO port injection e30 n54 has a 8.02 6-130 time on my second try so far with draggy so am i making like 550hp to the wheels?
my car is manual tho so i have less drivetrain losses than the auto version
15% power loss on a manual is too high. My DCT F80 on a Dynojet only had around 5-6% loss. But still very impressive numbers.
Great content .. sweet car. Love the manual
The manual trans is this cars hamstring unfortunately. The way its been calibrated for emmisions and noise regulation, the manual doesnt see good performance figures. Sadly the auto is where its at with this new M2
its been known for a long time the advertised number is the wheel power, the x3m comp would werk that m2, m2 kinda slow
My SRT JEEP logged a 4.0 0-60 stock 93octane (Empty wiper fluid reserve) and I couldn’t be more happy with my purchase!
I think it is more of a German thing, if they claim something all of them should achieve it…
Although BMWs top speed limiters have been off lately (limit set to 250Km/h, but many new BMWs will only do 245km/h GPS).
yop
why were you shifting into 2nd so fast? if you let 1st gar run out a little more the times woud have been better
The HP/TQ intersection point is off.
I know this car is crazy heavy but the 60-130 times seem really slow for almost 480 wheel even with rowing your own gears. My RS3 is making roughly only 60 wheel horsepower more and runs low 7s 60-130mph. With that power I would expect at least high 9s
Passenger, 100 degrees outside and the turbos seems to run out of breath up top. 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
RS3 also is awd and not manual lmao
@@BalexDawn Whats AWD got to do with a 60-130 pull?
@@ronaldov09Awd are actually slower uptop.
@@ll.7927 Well its a front wheel drive biased Haldex so not sure it would make a rats ass of difference in a 60-130
In the U.K manufacturers quote horsepower at the Crank. Our dynos calculate HP at the crank. The last few Bmws I have dyno'd over here make close to claimed HP. Eg N52B30 claimed 260, made 252. Also an m135i I owned (N55B30), claimed (crank 320ps) made actual 315hp. Over here Bmw quote power at the Crank.
I think if your car was making +500hp it would show in the draggy times.
The dyno figures you show look spot on for Crank HP.
Of course, the clock does not lie. This car does not have even close to 470 whp. It does have around 460 crank hp as advertised.
Why do they do that? Having a "calculation" makes it an unknown and makes it hard to get consistent readings. In Australia our Dyno dynamics or Mainline dyno's give power at the wheels and that's it.. A stock standard 2003 235KW LS1 SS Commodore , auto, made 190 rear wheel KW which was a common reading for those cars on most shops dyno's. Rarely you'll hear a guy say how much KW e got out of his stock whatever and most car guys will know it's BS .. In Australia it's often talked about how US Mustang dyno's and others show WAY more power than our dyno's..
I wonder if BMW figures are stated for the standard mode of the car (comfort) like they do with emissions. would be good to see what it makes in comfort on the Dyno.
The modes don't change the HP or TQ
i had a question. I recently just bought a 2006 bmw 325i for 1800$. i fixed it up did all the matince on it but it has almost 200k miles on it. Is it worth keeping and making it look nicer or should i sell it?
you have an n51 that shit will last
@@doomz4564 I thought it has an E90 engine (btw I’m sorry if I’m completely wrong, this is my first car)
@@ayr778 you have an e90 325i with the n51 engine in it
Great deal on the draggy! Just ordered mine thanks 🙏🏽
🙏🏼
Even tough you didn’t make that good times you are going to learn about the car and I am sure that you can learn how to properly do pulls
Better they lie conservatively than the other way around. This test is a great reminder that a DCT can do everything better than a human with a manual transmission. I have a 2020 M2C with DCT and I love it. I would not want a manual. (I also have a 2002 M3 with a manual.)
just wondering are all these bmws that dyno higher then stock done on same dyno ? tried 1 car on multiple yet ?
Nope 3 different dynos.
@@VehicleVirals thats amazing :D i still recall when we dynoed my old e36 m3 , stock it was 321hp ( euro ). dynoed 259 and honestly i was impressed as by then with drivetrain loss etc it about equals what it should be stock , and this was a beaten up 95mod with 280 000km on a stock engine
I bet that 4.1 0-60 was the automatic time? Or did bmw state that as the manual time?
Auto is 3.9, manual is 4.1
@@VehicleVirals they got the stig doing their testing lol
I've never seen anyone complain about a car making more power than rated.
All cars should make whp instead of crank. There's no way a lot of cars are losing 60,70, 110+ HP for drivetrain loss.
I'm actually considering BMW now because it seems like with their M cars, you actually get what you pay for.
Hey wassup chris I was wondering if you would be able to help me find a reliable mechanic in Florida , everyone that I go to makes my bmw 335i worse then how I got it
Being it to us. Message me on IG
@@VehicleVirals thank you and i sent you a message
6:55 You want some launch with all that sauce?
BMW uses which machine to dyno? Same as your's brand and how about the setting configuration? Those who is passional about car's all know there is a thing call sad or happy dyno I hope you know that too.
Because Dyno's are tuning tools, nothing more, nothing less. People need to get over the number thing, and understand you can make a dyno read whatever the hell you want. It's the operator that makes the difference. If you want real numbers, take it to the track! Don't do 60-130 pulls in a damn SCHOOL ZONE like this guy.
also that dyno reads high
Screw 0-60 or 60-130, as it was never this car’s purpose. It’s the damn driving experience in the back twisty roads that BMW engineers wanted us to experience. The formula is simple, yet many have forgotten; 6 speed coupe, rear wheel drive, with loads of power. Just love it, as we will never see this again.
Very true. The fun factor is what they were going after. I can't wait to get my M2 and enjoy it. It will most certainly be the last of its kind before hybrid and electric come into play. Almost certainly it will be the last manual, rear wheel drive non electric anything M car.
The manual trans is a dog in this car....The gearing sucks compared to the automatic. The acceleration difference is quite large.
isnt the 0-60 numbers based on the auto, id imagine its gonna be pretty hard to get a stock stick g87 to 4.1 seconds
3.9 for autos
FYI it’s not losing 15% on a manual RWD application. Probably closer to 10% if that. Still more than bmw claims.
Clickbait: I wouldn't call over performing as lying. If someone gave you too much change you wouldn't call them a thief.
Needs 2b 4 wheel drive especially in the wet!!! Suppose u don't need where u r.
The dyno graph seems a bit off. HP and TQ should be crossing at 5250 if we are reading actual whp and ftlbs, so something is off with the settings or calibrations. Also go ahead and change the correction factor to SAE and keep the smoothing at 5. Id run it again with the 5250 cross over and those correction factor settings, im sure the final results will be a bit different.
The scaling factor was different for HP and TQ which is why it doesn't cross at that point. Doesn't change the final numbers regardless.
@@VehicleVirals Will depend also on the time factor as well. BTW on the SAE correction factor, the correction is made at 77 degrees. Final numbers will vary when compared to the STD correction factor that makes a correction at 60 degrees. Naturally you will make more power at 60 degrees, however none of the CF will will account humidity. That is what the weather station and its sensors for the dynojet are for.
Nice vid bro
Good informative video maybe you could find a place with a few more houses and a school for your 0-60 times. You stated you are not a professional driver, you can add professional thinker to that list. Is that really the best spot you could find for your 0-60 times. If I lived on that street I would be hiding in the bushes with a paint ball gun loaded with frozen paint balls ready for a broadside.
Put it on a UK dyno and the figures will be far closer to the quoted BMW figures (probably slightly higher but not by much). Why do USA dynos show such high figures?
Because they use wish horsepower units there 😅
I just wish they lie about the oil leak and coolant leak too
Germans under rate on paper so if your engine doesn’t make as much as most other, it’s still making at least as much as advertised so they can’t get sued.
The dyno could be over reading happens with a lot of dynos
Idea, maybe do a video where you go to a driving school for GT driving...a session at Nurburgring
Don't Dynojet dynos tend to exaggerate vs say, the Dynolog dynos?
i dont know how you in the US mesure cranck vs wheel hp, but 543 hp on cranck at 11.53s 60-130 is slow as heeeell
Definitely measuring to the wheels. I agree the 60-130 was weak. Seems to me like the twins are running out of breath up top, primarily in the torque department.
@@VehicleVirals Its odd to me for that. 500hp at cranck at 1700kg runs like bottom 8s at 60-130. Butt surely the M2 when upgraded will go like M5
@@klokan_jack I agree. That dyno is showing high numbers.
@@jonashedman131 that dyno is straight up lying. I test drove the new M2 last week and it does not feel any faster than the 460 hp advertised, and those times prove it.
Wonder if this is because of SAE vs STD or whatever its called. They changed the test standards a few years back, wonder if Europe still uses the old standard.
Shocked the car dyno’d so high but dragy’d so slow. Guess the weight and gearing? I know Florida heat and humidity not helping.
Yes, the weight and gearing do not help. Also, on a cooler day without a passenger, he should be able to get that 4.56 down to 4.1. Turbocharged cars are completely different animals when it's boost weather out. Ask me how I know 😅
It was 100 out with a 60% humidity. I had a passenger to top it off 😂😂
BMW ALWAYS gives the wheel horsepower #s not the bhp or hp #s.
My Supra B58 stock got 382 whp but the hp was dynoed at 450.
Now at stage 2 it's getting about 500whp on gas.
what good is all that power if the tires always break loose, its an absolute waste of money and hp.
473whp in a light-ish car but only a 11.15 second 60-130? Something doesn’t seem right.
Launch control to 60+mph in a residential area is a dickhead move. a ball comes out a drive way and a kid or a dog comes chasing after it and then what?
Just wondering why your 0-60 was slower than a m340i if the lighter car makes so much more hp in the M2. Those wheel numbers dont seem accurate from other test ive seen on this model
I think the m340i is awd
Damn I'm sure it'll be me on a good day but to see the first numbers be pretty identical to the supra makes me feel like toyota was shooting for s58 performance numbers wren they said that they tweaked the engine and transmission on it. I'm glad toyota went with bmw for their i6... the only way I'll touch a beamer derived engine is through toyota safe proofing it, but in general i do admire the power of bmw
Classic bmw. The math really ends up being 556 to the crank. If we lose 15% of the crank power to get to whp, that’s 556 - 556*15%. Or 556 - 83.4 = 473
Original m135i hatch did better than 4.8, my 2012 did a 4.5 😂
Hold the brake as hard as possible, accelerate; easiest way to launch a bmw at least in a auto.
Timed its 110-210 at 12.1s. Considering the original m2 had an n55 and was slower than the 1 series to begin with, it made up in handling, which is what it’s supposed to do, though you’d expect it to be a bit beefier for the price compared to the 240 xdrive
In Europe, engine power is measured in kilowatts, translated to horsepower using some formula. Power is a torque multiplied by rpm - here is the formula for horsepower H = T x rpm/5252. Your draggy times clearly show that the car is not even close to 500 hp or whatever number you think it makes. Look at your draggy times and compare them with other cars. A good source is AutotopNL as they test many different cars. The car makes something like 400 European hp (engine power), as you said it is hot in Orlando. In the US dynos give inflated numbers to please their customers
It's not like they do testing to see how much power each car makes. Either they use averages or just come up with a figure to make their cars faster than the competition, but advertise as if they're in the same league as their competition.
Shame my OG M2 doesn't lie so much as other beemers. Think they (just) make advertised crank at the wheels but that's it?
Car companies do this because they are making cars to fit within brackets. If they can say their m3 is 400 hp and it competes with merc c class which is also 400hp and yet the bmw wins in a drag, customers think the bmw is using better "technology" or its just better engineering when in actuality its just got more hp
So basically it got the full sauce of a RWD M3/M4 😂 dayum
it’s got the same motor
My tuned 335i with meth runs so much quicker in weather under 65 degrees. When it gets over 100 degrees I dont even try. And we only have 91 octane in So Cal.
Have you tried spraying water-meth? Down here in southern az it makes a huge difference in iat and makes the weather not really matter.
Manual car running a 4.1 would be hard
BMW over-engineers their cars to such a degree that you can safely download 100 hp+ tune and nobody blinks an eye
Will there be a 4th of July sale?
We currently have a CSF sale going on. Everything else is TBA
Have you done the 1200 mile service yet?
Yes
@@VehicleVirals okay. Power is on point its always better to have more then less.
Nice, the first 60-130 was identical to my stock 23 Nissan Z.
They quote approximately to wheel horsepower…Mercedes, Audi and Porsche do the same
Did they lie or are these Dyno a bit sketchy? Bc why would BMW say their cars make less power than they actually do?
I'd be demanding a refund and possible lawsuit for false advertising. Crooks!
I’m sure my beemer puts out more power than what the factory said.
Even though it’s a 2012 model.
Your dyno is over reading bigtime!! The dragy results prove that!!
Well its 91 degrees out lol. Thats hot as fck for turbo cars.
And this is the quickest time so far, not fastest. Fast is the speed, not the time.
You only need one shift for 0-60. Stay in 2nd gear mate.
Lose the passenger -then do your 0-60 tests. Otherwise it’s creamed corn launches and Kia Rio results
Definitely not 15% drivetrain loss on a modern bmw
you should do before and after modifications times
That's the goal
BMW needs a no left shift w/ launch control
Same goes to their EV production..❤ trusted brand..
6th gear pull in 60 mph? Too much lag there. Need 3rd gear and more shifting