Many thanks. I don't own an Accurascale Deltic but videos like this are Extremely helpful to assist in tracking down similar problems. Like the way you analysed each step. Well done. Howard.😊
I've just purchased an Accurascale Deltic and was experiencing derailments not over points, but on curved (2nd and 3rd Radius) track. The locomotive performed perfectly when running "light engine" but as soon as coaches were coupled to it - it derailed. I fitted magnetic "Hunt" couplings to the locomotive and to the rake of Bachmann Mk2 coaches it was hauling and problem solved! No more derailing. The Hunt magnetic coupling fits into the standard NEM socket - no adjustment necessary. The removed, standard couplings are stored safely with all the other detailing bits that have fallen off it!
I was quite critical of this model on Rmweb which they didn't like much so any future posts I make have to be approved by the moderator, but then of course Accurascale post directly on that forum. The model looks great, but as an RTR model its under developed and tested and just not fit for purpose in my view. As you point out there is the coupling/derailment issue, the chains are a nightmare, and the nose steps are so easily broken along with the potential for other bits to fall off. I'm getting rid of mine and will look for some good condition Bachmann ones, less detailed but more practical as an RTR model. I'm staying clear of Accurascale until they produce models which don't have the Deltic issues.
Under developed is an apt description, and it's a shame your comments on RM web have to be pre-approved before being allowed to comment. I've had lots of helpful comments on how to approach the derailment issue which are helpful, but - as you say - this is supposed to be a ready-to-run model, and not everybody is confident with making modifications to new models themselves. I've resigned myself to the fact that I can only run this model on two out of thee lines, and even then, it needs to be watched like a hawk!
Don't have this model I'm sticking with Bachmann 55 but the Dapol class 68 I have has this same coupling system as Accurascale and you've guessed it the problem is there too! The 68 will even lunch the hook in to oblivion when it strikes the points in curves!
My Deltic was DCC fitted as I was late to the party and all the sound version had sold out. That said I will be receiving my Accurathrash Sound Decoder and Speaker today but I'm not looking forward to removing the body to install the speaker. Your detective work was an interesting video.
Very interesting . The Deltic is a very nice loco but very highly strung and temperamental ! I darent leave it running because it will derail. I know my track isn’t perfect but I do not experience derailments with anything else . Currently also running Bachmann 45 and Dapol Western without any issues but the Deltic is something else . I have to say it’s one of the most infuriating locos in the fleet . I think these kinematic couplings have a lot to answer for . The latest tendency is for the leading bogie of the adjoining coach to derail when coming off a curve because the kinematic coupling hasn’t centred. These are heavy Bachmann coaches . I’m experimenting with various couplings to see if they make a difference . I was thinking about an Accurascale 37 but might just go Bachmann as their models seem more robust and less likely to derail .
Thanks Russell, yes this particular model is infuriating. The kinematics are a bit of a pain, especially when it results in a temperamental loco. I'd be interested to know the results of your experimentations with different couplings.
@@melchestermodelrailway Well , I eventually got it to go round fairly reliably (still not 100%) . The only way to do it was substitute a wide coupling and run it with a wider coupling coach, I’ve used a Lima mk1 as the lead coach . It just throws Bachmann coaches with the narrow coupling .
Accurascale wagons also are rigid at the curves in some cases due to the less amount of play provided. With Trix I never had this. That said they probably will resolve this soon.
The back to back measurements could be out of gauge on the leading axle....It's possibly the check rail opposite the frog is at fault. Or possibly the flangeway!!!
Thanks very much for your comment. I did check the b2b and it seemed ok, and no other loco's derail at this point so I ruled out the point being at fault. It seems the derailments are due to the cinematic coupling.
In my experience the kinematic coupling seems to be the cause of so many derailments - in my case with Hornby Pullmans and Gresleys. If I run a 3 coach pullman train, never a problem. 4 coaches and there is an occasional derailment. 5 coaches and I rarely get a complete circuit before a coach derails. I really don't understand why these manufacturers persist on using such a complicated method of coupling (presumably they only ever tested it on a 3 coach train?). The experts say that "it allows closer coupling" but that simply isn't the case. The closest coupled coaches I have ever come across are the Hornby Railroad Gresleys (unmodified in any way). And as for chains connecting the body to the bogies... I will stick to my Bachmann Deltic, or even my 40 year old Lima model that has never derailed in its life!
I always wanted a Lima Deltic when I was younger, but never had enough pocket money! I must say that now I have an Accurascale one, it's been nothing but a headache! Perhaps the reshaping of the kinematic on your coaches might work, as somebody suggested in the RM web picture I showed in the video. It may be easier to access them on a coach.
I had the same issue. As my Accurascale Royal Scot’s Grey came off a curve that’s about 24 inch radius into a curved point it derailed the front bogie. Sometimes it passed over solo but never with a load. Every other loco I have managed it fine. One thing I thought might be causing it was that I had built in a tiny about of bank to the outside rail. So despite every other loco coping with it fine I bit the bullet and took up all the ballast and track and relaid it without the banking. Problem is now solved. I think the Accurascale Deltic is extremely sensitive to track geometry. It may be the kinematic coupling and like you I’m not taking the chains off again, it was bad enough to add the crew. One of the crank arms that link the chain to the body has now fallen off, although Accurascale are sending me a replacement. A bit frustrating and I am of a mind to just cut the chains off.
Hello Steve, that's very interesting. Like you I also have super-elevated curves and initially thought this might be the cause. I now think it may be a contributory factor, but there is no way I would want to replace track - unless it derailed all my other models/rolling stock - which it doesn't. I think you are right about the Deltic being overly sensitive to track geometry; that combined with the severe profile of the coupling mechanism is, I'm sure, what is causing the derailments.
Just watched this as my deltic also derails on a curved point so removed the front coupling from the nem socket and runs fine left it for 2 hours and still running .
Hi Chris, I saw your original Deltic video, so it was interesting to watch this one and see what the outcome was to be. I think there seems to be a bogie within a bogie on the Deltic, as mine occasionally derails too, yet doesn't appear off the tracks as the bogie frames still appear to be lined up with the track, yet the first wheel set appears to be derailed on closer inspection. It would be nice if Accurascale were to send everyone a modified Kinimatic coupler cam when they fit them to the new second batch so we could modify our locos too. They are lovely locos but very frustrating, as I bought the crew for mine too, yet refuse to break off those chains in order to fit the crew in the cab.............I wonder if they will fit in the cab of my new Heljan Class 45? So are you returning your Deltic for a refund in the end or persevering? Anyway all the best Dave.
Thanks Dave. Yes, I will have to return the loco again - this time probably for a refund, or possibly if Accurascale offer to make the modifications to the coupling mechanism - I certainly don't want to attempt that myself. I'd probably give the model a third try if Accurascale make the necessary modifications on future releases, as they have said they will do. A specially made part sent out to people sounds like a great idea, it could even be 3d printed very easily. The loco crew looks good from what I've seen, but like you, I'd probably be considering fitting them to a different loco rather than having to wrestle with those wretched chains!
Thanks Mike, I cried out too! I probably would see if lube made a difference, but getting the body off isn't something I really want to try again as it's attached to the bogies via the chains, and my experience from the previous model showed they are nigh on impossible to reattach well. I'm probably giving up too easily, but the folks on RM web have more staying power and experience when it comes to modifying models. I think they enjoy it!
@@melchestermodelrailway a very fine oil should find its way to where needed. It looks like its almost right. I'd be getting it as near as possible without disassembly?
I tthink the Transport H&S Executive would have something to say about that passenger service... No inter-carriage (concertina) companionways have been deployed, make moving between carriages for the conductor and general public, somewhat treacherous, especially when taking curves. . Any layout I spot, where I can see daylight between passenger coaches gets a huge thumbs down for me... Because it no longer represents a 'layout' (realism) but more a 'train-set' (toy).
I would probably estimate something like 99% of layouts featured on youtube don't feature carriages with gangway connectors. Fortunately ready to run models have much closer couplings these days, so a much more realistic effect is achievable, even if not perfect. Thanks for watching.
Many thanks.
I don't own an Accurascale Deltic but videos like this are
Extremely helpful to assist in tracking down similar problems.
Like the way you analysed each step.
Well done.
Howard.😊
Thank you.
It was good that they replaced it without any shenanigans, they are a lovely model
Yes, I wasn't expecting a straight replacement, so that was very good; problem is the replacement hasn't really solved the underlying problem though.
Fantastic you got a new model👍👍 grand layout mate 👍💯👍
Thanks very much, I was pleased to get a new model too, but still some issues to sort out.
I've just purchased an Accurascale Deltic and was experiencing derailments not over points, but on curved (2nd and 3rd Radius) track. The locomotive performed perfectly when running "light engine" but as soon as coaches were coupled to it - it derailed. I fitted magnetic "Hunt" couplings to the locomotive and to the rake of Bachmann Mk2 coaches it was hauling and problem solved! No more derailing. The Hunt magnetic coupling fits into the standard NEM socket - no adjustment necessary. The removed, standard couplings are stored safely with all the other detailing bits that have fallen off it!
I was quite critical of this model on Rmweb which they didn't like much so any future posts I make have to be approved by the moderator, but then of course Accurascale post directly on that forum. The model looks great, but as an RTR model its under developed and tested and just not fit for purpose in my view. As you point out there is the coupling/derailment issue, the chains are a nightmare, and the nose steps are so easily broken along with the potential for other bits to fall off. I'm getting rid of mine and will look for some good condition Bachmann ones, less detailed but more practical as an RTR model. I'm staying clear of Accurascale until they produce models which don't have the Deltic issues.
Under developed is an apt description, and it's a shame your comments on RM web have to be pre-approved before being allowed to comment. I've had lots of helpful comments on how to approach the derailment issue which are helpful, but - as you say - this is supposed to be a ready-to-run model, and not everybody is confident with making modifications to new models themselves. I've resigned myself to the fact that I can only run this model on two out of thee lines, and even then, it needs to be watched like a hawk!
Excellent detailed review of the issues with this loco. 👍
Thanks everso.
Don't have this model I'm sticking with Bachmann 55 but the Dapol class 68 I have has this same coupling system as Accurascale and you've guessed it the problem is there too! The 68 will even lunch the hook in to oblivion when it strikes the points in curves!
My Deltic was DCC fitted as I was late to the party and all the sound version had sold out. That said I will be receiving my Accurathrash Sound Decoder and Speaker today but I'm not looking forward to removing the body to install the speaker. Your detective work was an interesting video.
Thank you, I must admit I've had more fun doing the detective work than running this model!
Very interesting . The Deltic is a very nice loco but very highly strung and temperamental ! I darent leave it running because it will derail. I know my track isn’t perfect but I do not experience derailments with anything else . Currently also running Bachmann 45 and Dapol Western without any issues but the Deltic is something else . I have to say it’s one of the most infuriating locos in the fleet . I think these kinematic couplings have a lot to answer for . The latest tendency is for the leading bogie of the adjoining coach to derail when coming off a curve because the kinematic coupling hasn’t centred. These are heavy Bachmann coaches . I’m experimenting with various couplings to see if they make a difference . I was thinking about an Accurascale 37 but might just go Bachmann as their models seem more robust and less likely to derail .
Thanks Russell, yes this particular model is infuriating. The kinematics are a bit of a pain, especially when it results in a temperamental loco. I'd be interested to know the results of your experimentations with different couplings.
@@melchestermodelrailway Well , I eventually got it to go round fairly reliably (still not 100%) . The only way to do it was substitute a wide coupling and run it with a wider coupling coach, I’ve used a Lima mk1 as the lead coach . It just throws Bachmann coaches with the narrow coupling .
Accurascale wagons also are rigid at the curves in some cases due to the less amount of play provided. With Trix I never had this. That said they probably will resolve this soon.
The back to back measurements could be out of gauge on the leading axle....It's possibly the check rail opposite the frog is at fault. Or possibly the flangeway!!!
Thanks very much for your comment. I did check the b2b and it seemed ok, and no other loco's derail at this point so I ruled out the point being at fault. It seems the derailments are due to the cinematic coupling.
In my experience the kinematic coupling seems to be the cause of so many derailments - in my case with Hornby Pullmans and Gresleys. If I run a 3 coach pullman train, never a problem. 4 coaches and there is an occasional derailment. 5 coaches and I rarely get a complete circuit before a coach derails. I really don't understand why these manufacturers persist on using such a complicated method of coupling (presumably they only ever tested it on a 3 coach train?). The experts say that "it allows closer coupling" but that simply isn't the case. The closest coupled coaches I have ever come across are the Hornby Railroad Gresleys (unmodified in any way). And as for chains connecting the body to the bogies... I will stick to my Bachmann Deltic, or even my 40 year old Lima model that has never derailed in its life!
I always wanted a Lima Deltic when I was younger, but never had enough pocket money! I must say that now I have an Accurascale one, it's been nothing but a headache! Perhaps the reshaping of the kinematic on your coaches might work, as somebody suggested in the RM web picture I showed in the video. It may be easier to access them on a coach.
I had the same issue. As my Accurascale Royal Scot’s Grey came off a curve that’s about 24 inch radius into a curved point it derailed the front bogie. Sometimes it passed over solo but never with a load. Every other loco I have managed it fine. One thing I thought might be causing it was that I had built in a tiny about of bank to the outside rail. So despite every other loco coping with it fine I bit the bullet and took up all the ballast and track and relaid it without the banking. Problem is now solved. I think the Accurascale Deltic is extremely sensitive to track geometry. It may be the kinematic coupling and like you I’m not taking the chains off again, it was bad enough to add the crew. One of the crank arms that link the chain to the body has now fallen off, although Accurascale are sending me a replacement. A bit frustrating and I am of a mind to just cut the chains off.
Hello Steve, that's very interesting. Like you I also have super-elevated curves and initially thought this might be the cause. I now think it may be a contributory factor, but there is no way I would want to replace track - unless it derailed all my other models/rolling stock - which it doesn't. I think you are right about the Deltic being overly sensitive to track geometry; that combined with the severe profile of the coupling mechanism is, I'm sure, what is causing the derailments.
Just watched this as my deltic also derails on a curved point so removed the front coupling from the nem socket and runs fine left it for 2 hours and still running .
What a frustrating tale!
It sure was!
Hi Chris, I saw your original Deltic video, so it was interesting to watch this one and see what the outcome was to be. I think there seems to be a bogie within a bogie on the Deltic, as mine occasionally derails too, yet doesn't appear off the tracks as the bogie frames still appear to be lined up with the track, yet the first wheel set appears to be derailed on closer inspection. It would be nice if Accurascale were to send everyone a modified Kinimatic coupler cam when they fit them to the new second batch so we could modify our locos too. They are lovely locos but very frustrating, as I bought the crew for mine too, yet refuse to break off those chains in order to fit the crew in the cab.............I wonder if they will fit in the cab of my new Heljan Class 45? So are you returning your Deltic for a refund in the end or persevering? Anyway all the best Dave.
Thanks Dave. Yes, I will have to return the loco again - this time probably for a refund, or possibly if Accurascale offer to make the modifications to the coupling mechanism - I certainly don't want to attempt that myself. I'd probably give the model a third try if Accurascale make the necessary modifications on future releases, as they have said they will do. A specially made part sent out to people sounds like a great idea, it could even be 3d printed very easily. The loco crew looks good from what I've seen, but like you, I'd probably be considering fitting them to a different loco rather than having to wrestle with those wretched chains!
I noticed the wheels on these deltics are only 12.5 mm , and flanges are rather crude !!!
Yes, the wheels are a bit like Lima Pizza cutters!
I cried out when it derailed, looked so positive, can't just lube that coupling can you?
Thanks Mike, I cried out too! I probably would see if lube made a difference, but getting the body off isn't something I really want to try again as it's attached to the bogies via the chains, and my experience from the previous model showed they are nigh on impossible to reattach well. I'm probably giving up too easily, but the folks on RM web have more staying power and experience when it comes to modifying models. I think they enjoy it!
@@melchestermodelrailway a very fine oil should find its way to where needed. It looks like its almost right. I'd be getting it as near as possible without disassembly?
I tthink the Transport H&S Executive would have something to say about that passenger service... No inter-carriage (concertina) companionways have been deployed, make moving between carriages for the conductor and general public, somewhat treacherous, especially when taking curves.
.
Any layout I spot, where I can see daylight between passenger coaches gets a huge thumbs down for me... Because it no longer represents a 'layout' (realism) but more a 'train-set' (toy).
I would probably estimate something like 99% of layouts featured on youtube don't feature carriages with gangway connectors. Fortunately ready to run models have much closer couplings these days, so a much more realistic effect is achievable, even if not perfect. Thanks for watching.
try taking off front coupling . could be the tension hook is catching.. i send my model at 100 mph over the points.
Thanks very much, I can only dream of running this loco at 100mp over these particular points!
future locos......so don't buy anything on ebay right now or remove the kinematics myself