As one who already has cancer (start my treatments on the 12th), an emphatic YES! I'd take the risk for the opportunity to go to Mars. Great episode, Fraser. As always, thanks so much for sharing. Steve
We're going to take it as it comes. No guarantees in life, but I'm going to do all I can to lick it. Thanks so much for your sentiments, Fraser. Meanwhile, your videos are one of the highlights of my day, so keep them coming, sir! Steve
@@jonathanb3899, thank you for asking. I, by the grace of God, have been clean of cancer for the last three years. My variety was a squamous cell carcinoma on the base of my tongue, which had metastasized to my lymph nodes on the right side of my neck (Stage 4). 7 weeks of radiation (each week day) and two rounds of chemo and I am clean! I'm trying to live a life now that is deserving of my deliverance.
Very interesting information. I just readed a document from nasa called "who's afraid of a solar flare" that explains that high solar activity in fact deflects cosmic rays, so that astronauts take less radiation during a solar maximum. It also says that shielding against solar flares is not a problem. People at the ISS is protected against that, the problem are the cosmic rays.
Thank you Fraser, I had been wondering about this matter for years. It is astounding how much energy is needed to protect life from radiation and how little an average person knows about this ever-present yet invisible space danger. As to the ending of this video today's blooper left me with stomach cramps and tears of laughter in my eyes - even your intonation went wild there :) Thank you and bless you.
Makes me wonder, do those superconducting tapes that MIT were on about making small scale fusion reactors with last year make any of these ideas more workable?
Solenoids function as magnetic dipoles, not electric dipoles. You said it twice. Also, I believe at around 10:46 you meant "toroid" instead of solenoid. As for the idea, I had this thought some time ago (probably while watching one of your videos), about using superconductors in space to create magnetic fields. It seems like it should be much easier to apply SCM's in space than on earth, and they already find myriad uses here.
FRASER PLEASE READ : i really enjoy your videos!!!! THANK YOU for not adding commercials to them, some other channels i'm subscribed to started doing it >.< i love your videos brother, every day i get off work i'm always checking the channel for a new video! i love learning what you have to teach and its a great way for me to lose the stress and learn something! Thank you -Ryan
A water, or rather ice, shield would also add ablative protection against micro-meteorites. Perhaps a space elevator cable or orbital ring tower could act as a water pipelne for both ice shields and fusions reactors.
But the earth has a finite supply of fresh water... we already have water shortages in many areas. Do we really want to start pumping massive amounts of it off-world when we could get it - using much less energy - from smaller, frozen bodies like comets? Also we don't know how important the amount of water currently in earth's water cycle is for our climate's stability. Removing some may cause unintended consequences like less precipitation and less severe storms - which sounds OK but could trigger much more severe and widespread droughts.
Twas just a thought. But you are correct, there are much better options for acquiring and/or making water in space. Perhaps a hollowed out comet would make a decent spacecraft. No need to build massive metal objects when simple space rocks will suffice.
We may have problems with fresh water, but the oceans are huge. Even something ridiculous like entirely surrounding mars with a 10 meter thick layer of (salt) water would only require 0.1% of the water in earth's oceans.
Honestly, I think it is best to just accept that we need heavy (massive) shielding for spacecraft, and plan around the issue. Launch expenses are currently dropping and there should be a plan to construct a massively shielded interplanetary spacecraft in earth orbit. This would require many launches to get the needed materials into place and assemble them, but this is now more affordable than in the past, and then you could travel to Mars in safety. Once there, you would want to burrow into the surface to spend most of your time protected from radiation. I'm not up for this personally, but this is the best way to get there if the goal is permanent habitation.
I think you're pretty much right. Once you can extract and assemble vehicles in space itself, you don't have to get so careful about the weight you launch from Earth. I can't wait for this kind of orbital infrastructure.
Before even sending people beyond the magnetosphere, figure out how to launch large quantities of water or ice, plain old gravel and structural metals for very cheap using a rail gun, I mean, a giant rail gun with ablative material to protect the "sled rocket". The water or ice is the (giant) windows, the gravel is sunlight shading (for proper temps), and the metals are for the spinning habitats _within_ . Large spinning habitats. I believe we need like two or three meters thick of water, less amounts of gravel thickness (based upon inverse of density) and at least a few hundred meters diameter for the _cities_ . It would probably require dedicated (safer generation 4 closed cycle) nuclear reactors to pull it off, energy wise, as we need to use our fossil fuels to build the nuclear (and solar wind, etc, as long as these sources can energy pay for their own production, storage and recycle). A project of this magnitude would unite us into really wanting to transition to non carbon energy.
Once we have more of a space infrastructure, we'll be able to take advantage of all the mass that's out there to build structures, protection, etc. It'll be amazing to see what we've accomplished after hundreds of years.
I know it'll get lots of hate from those who live with cancer and for those that have watched people they love wither and die in agony. I don't have it, I've not seen much of it. But I fucking get it. It's bad. It's horrible. But I'd eat rads if I could be involved in off-world stuff. Life doesn't have objective meaning, existence alone isn't meaning and any meaning we do derive is entirely personal. For me understanding a bit more of the universe would do it for me, it outweighs the risks and I know I'm not alone. It'll be easier for the next people and easier still for those who follow. That's life and progress, we just need to be allowed to get on with it if we wish to.
I am really curious whether we could use this radiation and the high energy charged particles and convert them into energy to power spacecrafts...well anyway, great video! keep going :)
you theoretically could, the main issue would be the speed or density of the particles (some are heavier or penetrate farther then others). But solar panels basically do this for one kind of radiation (aka: low-energy photons). You could probably design a device that could use radiation to raise the temperature of water. Some of them, like gamma rays, do not respond to magnetic fields though and are likely to go straight through whatever you built. Some radiation does not penetrate very far and is susceptible to being dissipated in water as heat though. If it is charged you could divert and concentrate cosmic radiation to a beam to heat something. It wouldn't be very high energy but hey that's how all alternative energy is. :) They have talked about using water shielding before on long missions. If you have to have extra compressed air and water tanks you could put them on the outside of the ship as shielding. In this case any heating of the water is just a bonus.
Theoretically yes but not w today's tech otherwise we could quadruple energy production at nuclear power plants - thats why we surround the core with carbon rods pools of water and five feet of concrete high energy alpha beta gamma rays will kill you in days
“ shields up” lol captain Picard, how long have you been wanting to say that? Have you done a video on Lagrange points? If so can you add a link please 😀
Hi Fraser. Why can't we use lead (Pb) lining (like we have in XRAY and ct machine rooms or like in lead aprons ) to protect the astronauts in space crafts. If its too heavy we can have smaller lead lined chambers that astronauts can go n hide away in when the radiation levels increase as detected by radiation detectors.
It's just heavy to carry it into space. NASA is building some radiation shielding, and the astronauts can hide in their fort when there's a solar storm. When you're sending stuff to space, every kilogram is precious.
Fraser - when you talk about the superconducting doohickey that generates a 10 meter radius shield... has the total size of the shield been taken into account? Earth's field is rather huge after all, the particles from outer space have a lot of distance to cover within that field, and are deflected across that distance. A small shield on a space ship would not have that advantage. Problem?
I don't know the exact math, I'm just assuming they calculated it. The point was that it could be possible, but wasn't really much more protective than hiding in a fort made of your gear.
Terra forming. Would be awesome, but we know very little of it in implementation (consider how little we know about our own planet when it comes to this). And it would most likely take many, many tens of thousands of years or more. Unless we actually have massive breakthroughs in the technology and knowledge in the future to speed it up. Too bad we don't have a Total Recall button left behind by aliens to do it for us in 2 minutes.
But your lucky that your content is so interesting that you dont need videos it just helps, just loved it when you was suggesting to put a shield between Mars and the sun to block radiation, my brain just came alive :) and so thanks
Hey Fraser, It's worth noting that most of the predictions we make about human health and radiation exposure is based on what we in radiation biology call the "linear no-threshold" model. The model assumes that any dose of radiation at any rate carries risk, but we simply don't have much data for small gradual exposures, as essentially all of the scientific data in existence is based on quick massive doses (ex atomic bombing survivors). It may very well be that small doses of radiation over a prolonged period of time doesn't have much risk, but we always make safe assumptions. If you're curious, look into the "radiation hormesis" hypothesis sometime. Cheers, -Ian
Thanks a lot, cool to hear that someone in radiation biology is watching. :-) I had heard about the radiation hormesis idea, and I'm assuming you'd see some kind of effect in airline workers?
Got a question for your Q&A Fraser - I'd like to know about microwave energy transmission which appears to get skipped over by anyone purporting dyson swarms as if it is a given. I seems to me whilst this technology may work, the amount of power we would need from a swarm would get very lossy, very difficult to implement and possibly at the major nodes very melty too. How would (does) this technology really work and how would it be a limiting factor?
*YES* to the increased cancer risk question. In fact, I think that to be one of the first people to go to Mars, I'd take a *100%* chance of cancer (after, say, 5 years). We all have to die someday, usually in a slow, painful, wasting manner anyway- the adventure would absolutely be worth it!
I'd be comfortable going into space despite the increased risk of cancer. The way I see it, it's like being back in the days of the early European explorers that ventured into Africa, Asia, and the Americas or the ancient Polynesians sailing into the unknown to find new islands to live on. In their perspective, there was probably a lot of risk involved - and I'm sure some of them didn't even expect to make it back home alive. However, because they went and embraced the risks, they eventually learned, adapted, conquered and opened colonization for themselves. Venturing into space and onto new worlds is, for us right now, very much the same. The struggles we face as an infant spacefaring civilization are the risks we must take so that we can guarantee a future for the human race amongst the stars. As we get more and more comfortable with life out there, as we iterate on our technology from subsequent trips, and as we build even more infrastructure to make spacefaring easier and safer, then we'll think less and less about the increased risk of cancer (or the increased risk of death, in general) because we'll have grown as spacefarers and become more experienced and better equipped.
Hey Fraser. I have a complicated question. If we send an object out there at 0.8 the speed of light, time here on Earth will pass much much faster than time on it. Meaning, that a few days here would be a few minutes there, which means that after say 10 years for us, it would have travelled at 0.8c, which if I'm not kistaken is 8 light years. But for it, this 100 years will be more like 1, or less, meaning that it has travelled for say a year at 0.8c, which makes that 0.8 light years away from earth. So which one is correct and why? *That's based on Einstein's theory that if you travel towards light at very high speed, light doesnt travel towards you faster, so for it it's actually 0.8 ly.
What about a water shield? Water is an excellent radiation shield. You could use the crew's water reserve as a layer embedded in the spacecrafts hull - replenishing via on-board distillation, filtration and capture of human wastes and breath.
It would be very very heavy. We have to be able to get water up into space cheaply to do it. Though when we get to the point of colonizing Mars or the Moon we should have the tech to get lots of water into space cheap and easy.
Is it? Are you sure about that? Perhaps you're confusing the radiation protection ability of water with how MUCH water you have available for shielding here on Earth. Lead is an effective shield because it is dense. It is much much denser than water. Gold is even denser, but expensive so not used as much (or at all?). If you used water in space, I bet you'd need huge amounts. Prohibitively huge amounts. :(
In these nascent stages of space any small step is good and adds up over time. Yes, if you wanted to stop 90% of the cosmic and solar radiation, you'd need a fairly thick layer of water but keep in mind you need to carry water anyway for the crew to survive so rearranging the tank to be a protective layer WOULD help even if it only stopped 10% or so of the low-energy radiation. They've actually talked about this as an idea to do on longer missions like to mars because if a mission is more then a year that 10% adds up to very significant. Also, it isn't necessarily true that dense materials are better shields. Some metals actually amplify cosmic rays as each ray that strikes it forms more rays that scatter inwards. A lot of the types of metals we use in hulls are susceptible to this which is why we've not wanted to leave the protection of the magnetosphere and why the ISS was placed within it. On the other hand, water does not amplify but dissipates most high-energy particles. Water is a very good shield all things considered and we need to bring it anyway. It's not a bad idea! :)
Water is awesome, and useful for so many other reasons, it's just heavy to get into space. Eventually we'll probably have spacecraft with a water ice shield layer.
You could live underground on Mars or the moon most of the time. Maybe in ancient lava tubes or a crater you can build in then cover with dirt/ice. For travel, use the BFR to haul up a large amount of water and use for shielding. Perhaps in bladders on the exterior of the ship, or between layers of a double-hull design. The water would be heavy, but it could be electrolyzed on route for deceleration since it would not be as needed once close to Mars. That way an ever increasing supply could be left in orbit as building/shielding material rather than dumping to reduce deceleration mass.
B.Fernadez So answer the question. If they can’t get safely thru the magnetic field now, with all the technology we have now, how did they do it 50 yrs ago? Their answer is that they destroyed the technology from that time. Now THAT makes me Roll my eyes and almost swallow my spoon.
So first you put whatever you build on the outside coils on the corners run the wires through the craft. To produce the required effect. This is a very good idea if I say so myself lol. This should also help with drag. When turned on the craft should be in clean space and might actually increase the ability to go fast in space while also providing a breaking system. That would be very good indeed.
I don't know the budgeting costs, but I think a well-coordinated, drone-based asteroid mining system would be a feasible way to gather materials continuously.
Do we know if the BFR will have an Artificial Magnetosphere in it's design? Has SpaceX indicated they might include a shield satellite like this? In fact, has there been anything punlished on radiation protection in their upcoming missions?
I like the idea of providing Mars with magnetic shielding. Perhaps with an array of nuclear and eventually fusion powered ships. Until then we'll need big rockets like BFR to carry enough shielding for passengers. Then dig in on site/build habitats with enough shielding. I'm also curious about how well EVA suit's are shielded?
Thanks for the reply! You're probably right using something like lead shielding would be too heavy unless we're talking powered suits. Anyways love the channel keep up the great work!
I just stumbled upon this video. Great as always. I'm really interested in a planetary magnetosphere for Mars.... It is kind of demoralizing to terraform a planet and create an atmosphere that will get blown away by the solar winds (even if that happens over a long period of time)
So I have to prepare a presentation for school (which is really really important ) and I have to explain how we could create an artificial magnetic field around Mars. I did a lot of research but I still do not understand how these superconductors work and what effect they would have if placed in the space . I really need help!
Hey Fraser, is there enough light in interstellar space to see your hand on front of your face? Also since our eyes absorb light to see, if no one were around would everything be just dark including stars?
Q: why don't the Moon mission space suits block radiation? A: there was no radiation in space in the old days so didn't need it...!? Q: why aren't space suits used to clean up Nuke power plant spills? A: because, that would be stupid, space suits are just nylon movie props.
Fraser - love your stuff, I am learning a lot everyday... As such, time for a possible stupid question. Is the Alcubierre FTL theory sound or are these vides click bait for a Sci-Fact hopeful? Apologies if this has been covered or already disproven hocum.
They might be able to come up with something that could protect them for a while, and on Mars the gravity would be lower so you could wear a heavier spacesuit.
How earth magnetic field itself generates and how it has this vast range that can reaches beyond the atmosphere, from the sources perhaps very deep inside the core ?
Fraser Cain Sorry for dumb question, so how all other rocky, spinning planets in solar system dont come with proportionality similar magnetic field surrounding them ?
Because they don't have plate tectonics the way the Earth does. Mars and Mercury are too small, and the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus shut down its plate tectonics.
Hey Mr. Cain, great video again. I have some questions though, if we create artificial magnetosphere to a space station, would it create artificial Van Allen belts as well? If it does, could there be safe way to unload these belts without putting astronauts in danger? I see there is no such problem if you create your magnetic field to say L1 Lagrangian point of Mars relative to the Sun, as you should have no reason to go close to that generator. I know there is such consept but have no idea if it's feasible or not.
Sure, it would create trapped radiation, but I'm assuming they'd have a way to get rid of it, so it's not constantly swirling around the space station.
If properly shielding the ship is difficult, would something like lead lined bodysuits that the astronauts wear most of the time be an effective solution? Might be a bit cumbersome, but astronauts aren't really in it for the comfort. How much lead would be needed?
Not like Fallout, but as Alien of Sol 3 said, there are supplements that can bind up particles. This is a big problem for airline workers, who are exposed to higher levels of radiation at their altitudes, so any medicines would be very helpful.
Would the (sun/planet) lagrange point on the far side of any planet with a strong magneto sphere be positioned such that it would be shielded from solar radiation by the planet's magneto sphere?
I think until these technologies are available all manned missions to the Moon and Mars should be performed inside lava tubes on those places. There is no point in exposing astronauts to radiation if they (and their instruments) can go underground and be 100% protected. Inside a cave you can stay for as long as you have food and air, radiation becomes a non-issue.
Fraiser Cain NASA is also looking into genetic engineering. They will be able to create astronauts in the future that can take more radiation than an ordinary human.
I have two questions. 1st. question If a black hole swallows mass and energy what happens to the energy? Since with time being brought to a stop wouldn't the temperature be absolute zero? or would its temperature in the billions of degrees? Since heat is a measure of the speed of atoms movement which is correct? 2nd. question What effect does the billions of watts of energy passing into the earth from the magnetosphere have on the planet? Does it help to keep the core hot like a electric heating element? Does it act as a dynamo and help to produce the magnetosphere? All of the energy must go somewhere.
But wouldn´t the magnetic shield at the L1 point act like some kind of solarsail and you would have to steer against this radiation pressure. Or am i getting something worng here?
Think about it this way: the first people to return to Earth from the surface of Mars would be international treasures. Now I'm not saying that would magically create a cure for cancer, but it if there were, they'd be one of the first to receive it, if/when it happens. Personally, even if I got two decades shaved off of my life, I would have no regrets. My legacy would live much better and happier than me at that point anyway.
So you still need as full enveloping EM shield not just an umbrella to protect a planet. So thought include a series of satellites that work to provide such a shield. This is stuff that would have to built on Mars. So do Plans to colonize Mars at all include plans to build an industrial complex there, as well?
Hi Fraser, nice video. While there is so much discussion about developing these technologies to make Mars habitable, why does no one talk about developing technology to convert CO2 of Venus into other components like O2 and carbon itself? Won't that make much more sense? The same tech would be useful on Earth as well.
In order to extract the CO2, you need to lock up the carbon to something else. The problem is that Venus lacks hydrogen. It all blew away from the solar wind.
I hope I'll live long enough to see that magnetic shield floating in the L1 Lagrange spot. Could you make a video about how cosmic rays make the athmosphere of a planet disappear ?
If we can use artificial magnetic fields downstream a planet at the sun L1 point to block solar wind could we also use a constellation of them instead to divert it towards a planet like venus to blow off its atmosphere in a reasonable amount of time? As a possible terraforming strategy?
If i go to patreon do tou think you could help me with a story line... its bassiczlly about a ferrofluid cryonics storage of a head in space. If you can think of anyway it would be possible without radiation damage ... my b storyline charactor does it cause its a cheap long term solution to keeping it at minus 270 or whatever space is
Hi Fraser, great video on artificial magnetic fields. I have a question, couldn't we bore into Mars and drop some thermonuclear bombs to ignite the core and maybe that would create the magnetic field we need?
Everything I've read indicates the jury is still out on solid or part molten. 3 to 5 billion years ago Mars quit producing a magnetosphere. Mars mass (half of the earth) was too light to keep going. You add mass to her till she reaches earths weight, she'll fire back up. IMO
Just plant a little patch of bamboo or Kudzu on Mars and in about 3 months you will have a lush green planet. Downside is that you will never be able to get rid of it.
OK - but the Apollo spacecraft did communicate with Mission Control through the Earth's magnetosphere, so is only a certain band of radio frequencies blocked and/or does it depend on the magnetic field strength? And what about the effects of the intense magnetic field on the spacecraft's (or the colony's) own electrical and electronic systems within the shielded zone?
It seems like building a shielded compartment into craft makes more sense. if we're already carrying the weight in supplies, why not just redesign a small section with those supplies stored in the outer walls? then no cool blanket fort needs to be built. it's already incorporated into the design of that segment of the craft. just hop in. ideally all sections of all crafts would be shielded in this way, but they probably don't have enough supplies for that in current missions. i guess everything gets easier once we start building craft in space and don't have to launch so much payload. Lunar mining! ... uh, with drones i guess.
"...and the inevitable hostile xenomorphs." Nice. :)
It's just one of those things you've got to stay aware of.
I've only recently discovered this channel, it's already one of my favorites. Keep up the good work, guys!
Thanks a lot, welcome aboard.
As one who already has cancer (start my treatments on the 12th), an emphatic YES! I'd take the risk for the opportunity to go to Mars. Great episode, Fraser.
As always, thanks so much for sharing.
Steve
Cancer sucks, and I'm really sorry you have to go through this. Good luck with your treatments!
We're going to take it as it comes. No guarantees in life, but I'm going to do all I can to lick it. Thanks so much for your sentiments, Fraser. Meanwhile, your videos are one of the highlights of my day, so keep them coming, sir!
Steve
Good luck, hope all goes well .
Hey Steve, how'd you fair?
@@jonathanb3899, thank you for asking. I, by the grace of God, have been clean of cancer for the last three years. My variety was a squamous cell carcinoma on the base of my tongue, which had metastasized to my lymph nodes on the right side of my neck (Stage 4). 7 weeks of radiation (each week day) and two rounds of chemo and I am clean! I'm trying to live a life now that is deserving of my deliverance.
Nanobots that constantly repair DNA?
We'd need them anyways for health and longevity.
Would we still need radiation shielding?
That would be great, and we could use it here on Earth.
Very interesting information.
I just readed a document from nasa called "who's afraid of a solar flare" that explains that high solar activity in fact deflects cosmic rays, so that astronauts take less radiation during a solar maximum. It also says that shielding against solar flares is not a problem. People at the ISS is protected against that, the problem are the cosmic rays.
The people in ISS are protected by the Earth's magnetosphere too.
This answered my questions about the subject from a couple weeks ago. Huge thanks!
Oh great!
Thank you Fraser, I had been wondering about this matter for years. It is astounding how much energy is needed to protect life from radiation and how little an average person knows about this ever-present yet invisible space danger.
As to the ending of this video today's blooper left me with stomach cramps and tears of laughter in my eyes - even your intonation went wild there :) Thank you and bless you.
Yup, the Earth's magnetosphere is one of our planet's greatest gifts. Just another thing we take for granted.
Awesome production! Even better than usual. I found the graphs and diagrams highly informative and I paused to take them in. Thank you!
Thanks a lot, this one was a lot of work, but really fun to do.
You've earned some Patreon revenue :D
Makes me wonder, do those superconducting tapes that MIT were on about making small scale fusion reactors with last year make any of these ideas more workable?
I like you snarky quips in this particular video, it helps some personality come through, which can be unusual when reading a script.
Oh great, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Solenoids function as magnetic dipoles, not electric dipoles. You said it twice. Also, I believe at around 10:46 you meant "toroid" instead of solenoid. As for the idea, I had this thought some time ago (probably while watching one of your videos), about using superconductors in space to create magnetic fields. It seems like it should be much easier to apply SCM's in space than on earth, and they already find myriad uses here.
D'oh! you're right, oops.
Excellent stuff! Impeccable rigor and thoroughness.
Thanks a lot, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
One missing fact bugs me...
How "small" would that 'smaller shield' at Lagrange point be? (Mentioned @9:08)
likely still very large and would cost a fortune
FRASER PLEASE READ : i really enjoy your videos!!!! THANK YOU for not adding commercials to them, some other channels i'm subscribed to started doing it >.< i love your videos brother, every day i get off work i'm always checking the channel for a new video! i love learning what you have to teach and its a great way for me to lose the stress and learn something! Thank you -Ryan
Don't thank me, thank the Patreon supporters who contribute so we can make longer videos, get better camera gear, etc.
i thank them for that, and you for researching, presenting and filming these videos.
Amazing video Fraser, quality reporting!
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
So.. sleeping in a CT scanner was a bad idea? Guess I'm back to my solarium bed :(
wouldn't a watershield a few meters thick be cheaper?
Water is heavy, but if you had some kicking around, absolutely.
we could probably borrow some from hailey next time she visits us
probably
Would be cool to just develop some type of lightweight ultrathin fabric and wrap the ship or compartments in it in combination with water/ice.
Water makes a great radiation shield. And it's tasty to drink.
A water, or rather ice, shield would also add ablative protection against micro-meteorites. Perhaps a space elevator cable or orbital ring tower could act as a water pipelne for both ice shields and fusions reactors.
But the earth has a finite supply of fresh water... we already have water shortages in many areas. Do we really want to start pumping massive amounts of it off-world when we could get it - using much less energy - from smaller, frozen bodies like comets? Also we don't know how important the amount of water currently in earth's water cycle is for our climate's stability. Removing some may cause unintended consequences like less precipitation and less severe storms - which sounds OK but could trigger much more severe and widespread droughts.
Twas just a thought. But you are correct, there are much better options for acquiring and/or making water in space. Perhaps a hollowed out comet would make a decent spacecraft. No need to build massive metal objects when simple space rocks will suffice.
We may have problems with fresh water, but the oceans are huge. Even something ridiculous like entirely surrounding mars with a 10 meter thick layer of (salt) water would only require 0.1% of the water in earth's oceans.
What about spinning up a load of mercury in some sort of low friction tube that goes round the ship? Would that work?
Honestly, I think it is best to just accept that we need heavy (massive) shielding for spacecraft, and plan around the issue. Launch expenses are currently dropping and there should be a plan to construct a massively shielded interplanetary spacecraft in earth orbit. This would require many launches to get the needed materials into place and assemble them, but this is now more affordable than in the past, and then you could travel to Mars in safety. Once there, you would want to burrow into the surface to spend most of your time protected from radiation. I'm not up for this personally, but this is the best way to get there if the goal is permanent habitation.
I think you're pretty much right. Once you can extract and assemble vehicles in space itself, you don't have to get so careful about the weight you launch from Earth. I can't wait for this kind of orbital infrastructure.
thank you so much Fraser very helpful
Thanks for watching!
I really enjoyed the format of this latest video!
Thanks a lot! We put a lot of work into this one. :-)
Before even sending people beyond the magnetosphere, figure out how to launch large quantities of water or ice, plain old gravel and structural metals for very cheap using a rail gun, I mean, a giant rail gun with ablative material to protect the "sled rocket".
The water or ice is the (giant) windows, the gravel is sunlight shading (for proper temps), and the metals are for the spinning habitats _within_ . Large spinning habitats.
I believe we need like two or three meters thick of water, less amounts of gravel thickness (based upon inverse of density) and at least a few hundred meters diameter for the _cities_ .
It would probably require dedicated (safer generation 4 closed cycle) nuclear reactors to pull it off, energy wise, as we need to use our fossil fuels to build the nuclear (and solar wind, etc, as long as these sources can energy pay for their own production, storage and recycle).
A project of this magnitude would unite us into really wanting to transition to non carbon energy.
Once we have more of a space infrastructure, we'll be able to take advantage of all the mass that's out there to build structures, protection, etc. It'll be amazing to see what we've accomplished after hundreds of years.
What a great video! Helped me with my science presentation
Thanks a lot, I'm glad you enjoyed it. :-)
Such a cool vid, not many covering rad shielding in depth relative to current and future possible solutions! Thx!
good vid will use it for robotics thanks
Oh great, let me know how it goes.
I know it'll get lots of hate from those who live with cancer and for those that have watched people they love wither and die in agony. I don't have it, I've not seen much of it. But I fucking get it. It's bad. It's horrible. But I'd eat rads if I could be involved in off-world stuff. Life doesn't have objective meaning, existence alone isn't meaning and any meaning we do derive is entirely personal. For me understanding a bit more of the universe would do it for me, it outweighs the risks and I know I'm not alone. It'll be easier for the next people and easier still for those who follow. That's life and progress, we just need to be allowed to get on with it if we wish to.
I am really curious whether we could use this radiation and the high energy charged particles and convert them into energy to power spacecrafts...well anyway, great video! keep going :)
You could use the Sun's solar wind with an electric sail: th-cam.com/video/-pIl_cv3OkA/w-d-xo.html&index=3&list=PLbJ42wpShvml6Eg22WjWAR-6QUufHFh2v
you theoretically could, the main issue would be the speed or density of the particles (some are heavier or penetrate farther then others). But solar panels basically do this for one kind of radiation (aka: low-energy photons). You could probably design a device that could use radiation to raise the temperature of water. Some of them, like gamma rays, do not respond to magnetic fields though and are likely to go straight through whatever you built. Some radiation does not penetrate very far and is susceptible to being dissipated in water as heat though. If it is charged you could divert and concentrate cosmic radiation to a beam to heat something. It wouldn't be very high energy but hey that's how all alternative energy is. :) They have talked about using water shielding before on long missions. If you have to have extra compressed air and water tanks you could put them on the outside of the ship as shielding. In this case any heating of the water is just a bonus.
Fraser Cain the inverse square law makes sailing difficult.
Theoretically yes but not w today's tech otherwise we could quadruple energy production at nuclear power plants - thats why we surround the core with carbon rods pools of water and five feet of concrete high energy alpha beta gamma rays will kill you in days
I've thought the same thing after watching this video: can we turn gamma rays into electricity? That would be a cool power electronics device.
“ shields up” lol captain Picard, how long have you been wanting to say that?
Have you done a video on Lagrange points? If so can you add a link please 😀
All my life? :-)
Here you go: th-cam.com/video/foyJzvpeaBE/w-d-xo.html&index=97&list=PLbJ42wpShvml6Eg22WjWAR-6QUufHFh2v
Hi Fraser.
Why can't we use lead (Pb) lining (like we have in XRAY and ct machine rooms or like in lead aprons ) to protect the astronauts in space crafts.
If its too heavy we can have smaller lead lined chambers that astronauts can go n hide away in when the radiation levels increase as detected by radiation detectors.
It's just heavy to carry it into space. NASA is building some radiation shielding, and the astronauts can hide in their fort when there's a solar storm. When you're sending stuff to space, every kilogram is precious.
Fraser - when you talk about the superconducting doohickey that generates a 10 meter radius shield... has the total size of the shield been taken into account? Earth's field is rather huge after all, the particles from outer space have a lot of distance to cover within that field, and are deflected across that distance. A small shield on a space ship would not have that advantage.
Problem?
I don't know the exact math, I'm just assuming they calculated it. The point was that it could be possible, but wasn't really much more protective than hiding in a fort made of your gear.
if Mars had a thick enough atmosphere it would block a considerable amount of radiation anyway.
It would provide much better protection with a thicker atmosphere.
Terra forming. Would be awesome, but we know very little of it in implementation (consider how little we know about our own planet when it comes to this). And it would most likely take many, many tens of thousands of years or more. Unless we actually have massive breakthroughs in the technology and knowledge in the future to speed it up.
Too bad we don't have a Total Recall button left behind by aliens to do it for us in 2 minutes.
Thanks Fraser absolutely love it, keep it up :)
Thanks a lot, we were lucky to have lots of amazing space videos to work with on this one. :-)
But your lucky that your content is so interesting that you dont need videos it just helps, just loved it when you was suggesting to put a shield between Mars and the sun to block radiation, my brain just came alive :) and so thanks
Hey Fraser,
It's worth noting that most of the predictions we make about human health and radiation exposure is based on what we in radiation biology call the "linear no-threshold" model. The model assumes that any dose of radiation at any rate carries risk, but we simply don't have much data for small gradual exposures, as essentially all of the scientific data in existence is based on quick massive doses (ex atomic bombing survivors). It may very well be that small doses of radiation over a prolonged period of time doesn't have much risk, but we always make safe assumptions. If you're curious, look into the "radiation hormesis" hypothesis sometime.
Cheers,
-Ian
Thanks a lot, cool to hear that someone in radiation biology is watching. :-) I had heard about the radiation hormesis idea, and I'm assuming you'd see some kind of effect in airline workers?
Wouldn't a thick enough atmosphere already protect from galactic radiation?
If it was really thick, then sure, but the Sun is constantly wearing it down. So putting up this shield would stop that mass loss from the atmosphere.
Frasier Cain... You are so comprehensive and articulate. I think if : "conscience" is correlation. You are a superconductor of intelligence. 🙏
Got a question for your Q&A Fraser - I'd like to know about microwave energy transmission which appears to get skipped over by anyone purporting dyson swarms as if it is a given. I seems to me whilst this technology may work, the amount of power we would need from a swarm would get very lossy, very difficult to implement and possibly at the major nodes very melty too. How would (does) this technology really work and how would it be a limiting factor?
"but good luck living down on the cloud tops of that gas bag" X-D X-D X-D X-D X-D
*YES* to the increased cancer risk question. In fact, I think that to be one of the first people to go to Mars, I'd take a *100%* chance of cancer (after, say, 5 years). We all have to die someday, usually in a slow, painful, wasting manner anyway- the adventure would absolutely be worth it!
Nice answer. :-)
Cool dude. Collider being used to invent shielding against GCR and Solar storms.
That's awesome! It makes me look forward to the future.
I'd be comfortable going into space despite the increased risk of cancer. The way I see it, it's like being back in the days of the early European explorers that ventured into Africa, Asia, and the Americas or the ancient Polynesians sailing into the unknown to find new islands to live on. In their perspective, there was probably a lot of risk involved - and I'm sure some of them didn't even expect to make it back home alive. However, because they went and embraced the risks, they eventually learned, adapted, conquered and opened colonization for themselves.
Venturing into space and onto new worlds is, for us right now, very much the same. The struggles we face as an infant spacefaring civilization are the risks we must take so that we can guarantee a future for the human race amongst the stars. As we get more and more comfortable with life out there, as we iterate on our technology from subsequent trips, and as we build even more infrastructure to make spacefaring easier and safer, then we'll think less and less about the increased risk of cancer (or the increased risk of death, in general) because we'll have grown as spacefarers and become more experienced and better equipped.
I know there are many people who feel the same as you.
OUTSTANDING. Thanks for your research and presentation. Technical, great your a massive help to what i am doing.
Thanks a lot, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It did take a lot more work than a usual episode, I'm glad that showed.
What's your opinion on using an "Electric Sail" as shield for radiation? It too blocks solar and possibly cosmic rays.
It would help with some of the solar wind, but that's already pretty blockable, it's the cosmic rays that'll come crashing through.
Hey Fraser. I have a complicated question.
If we send an object out there at 0.8 the speed of light, time here on Earth will pass much much faster than time on it. Meaning, that a few days here would be a few minutes there, which means that after say 10 years for us, it would have travelled at 0.8c, which if I'm not kistaken is 8 light years. But for it, this 100 years will be more like 1, or less, meaning that it has travelled for say a year at 0.8c, which makes that 0.8 light years away from earth. So which one is correct and why? *That's based on Einstein's theory that if you travel towards light at very high speed, light doesnt travel towards you faster, so for it it's actually 0.8 ly.
We did an episode about relativistic travel. Does this help? th-cam.com/video/4tjQ8o8j-O8/w-d-xo.html
oh my God. Thanks. Never seen that video before answered 100% my question thanks!! You're awesome.
Shields up! :) As Captain Kirk would say. Very cool
Yup. :-)
What about a water shield? Water is an excellent radiation shield. You could use the crew's water reserve as a layer embedded in the spacecrafts hull - replenishing via on-board distillation, filtration and capture of human wastes and breath.
It would be very very heavy. We have to be able to get water up into space cheaply to do it. Though when we get to the point of colonizing Mars or the Moon we should have the tech to get lots of water into space cheap and easy.
Is it? Are you sure about that? Perhaps you're confusing the radiation protection ability of water with how MUCH water you have available for shielding here on Earth.
Lead is an effective shield because it is dense. It is much much denser than water. Gold is even denser, but expensive so not used as much (or at all?).
If you used water in space, I bet you'd need huge amounts. Prohibitively huge amounts. :(
In these nascent stages of space any small step is good and adds up over time. Yes, if you wanted to stop 90% of the cosmic and solar radiation, you'd need a fairly thick layer of water but keep in mind you need to carry water anyway for the crew to survive so rearranging the tank to be a protective layer WOULD help even if it only stopped 10% or so of the low-energy radiation. They've actually talked about this as an idea to do on longer missions like to mars because if a mission is more then a year that 10% adds up to very significant. Also, it isn't necessarily true that dense materials are better shields. Some metals actually amplify cosmic rays as each ray that strikes it forms more rays that scatter inwards. A lot of the types of metals we use in hulls are susceptible to this which is why we've not wanted to leave the protection of the magnetosphere and why the ISS was placed within it. On the other hand, water does not amplify but dissipates most high-energy particles. Water is a very good shield all things considered and we need to bring it anyway. It's not a bad idea! :)
+danaphanous Great reply. Informative and to the point.
Water is awesome, and useful for so many other reasons, it's just heavy to get into space. Eventually we'll probably have spacecraft with a water ice shield layer.
You could live underground on Mars or the moon most of the time. Maybe in ancient lava tubes or a crater you can build in then cover with dirt/ice. For travel, use the BFR to haul up a large amount of water and use for shielding. Perhaps in bladders on the exterior of the ship, or between layers of a double-hull design. The water would be heavy, but it could be electrolyzed on route for deceleration since it would not be as needed once close to Mars. That way an ever increasing supply could be left in orbit as building/shielding material rather than dumping to reduce deceleration mass.
Once you get to Mars and head underground, it should be much safer. More boring, though, than enjoying your time out on the surface of Mars.
If we cannot go into space now, how did we do it 50 years ago? No way did we ever land anyone on the moon,
Rolls eyes, try not shallowing your spoon.
B.Fernadez So answer the question. If they can’t get safely thru the magnetic field now, with all the technology we have now, how did they do it 50 yrs ago? Their answer is that they destroyed the technology from that time. Now THAT makes me Roll my eyes and almost swallow my spoon.
A truly good video, you got yourself a new subscriber. Can't wait to watch more of your content!
Thanks a lot, welcome aboard.
i bet that he is at the forest with
a green screen behind him !!!!
HEAR THE TRUTH PEOPLE ! xd
I can neither confirm nor deny.
Maybe he's in front of a green screen.. that's in front of a forest.
There was an episode where a bird landed next to him in the out-takes tho :)
phooogle astronomers are master editors ever since moon landing!!!!
D:
john wolf John Wolf howls the truth sheeple! 👍
I love space Thursdays!
Thanks for watching!
So first you put whatever you build on the outside coils on the corners run the wires through the craft. To produce the required effect. This is a very good idea if I say so myself lol. This should also help with drag. When turned on the craft should be in clean space and might actually increase the ability to go fast in space while also providing a breaking system. That would be very good indeed.
Love your work! 👍
I don't know the budgeting costs, but I think a well-coordinated, drone-based asteroid mining system would be a feasible way to gather materials continuously.
Definitely, the future of asteroid mining is going to depend on robots.
Can you do a video explaining lagrange points.
Here you go! th-cam.com/video/foyJzvpeaBE/w-d-xo.html
Lead paint between two layers of the haul solved!
Jupiter might be protected... But it still a radioactive hellhole. >_
You don't want to go anywhere near it.
Do we know if the BFR will have an Artificial Magnetosphere in it's design? Has SpaceX indicated they might include a shield satellite like this? In fact, has there been anything punlished on radiation protection in their upcoming missions?
There are no plans to put anything like this in the BFR, it's just going to have shielding.
Broo this is so cool
I like the idea of providing Mars with magnetic shielding. Perhaps with an array of nuclear and eventually fusion powered ships. Until then we'll need big rockets like BFR to carry enough shielding for passengers. Then dig in on site/build habitats with enough shielding.
I'm also curious about how well EVA suit's are shielded?
You won't be able to protect the EVA suits for very long. Astronauts will need to limit their time unprotected out on the surface.
Thanks for the reply! You're probably right using something like lead shielding would be too heavy unless we're talking powered suits.
Anyways love the channel keep up the great work!
I just stumbled upon this video. Great as always. I'm really interested in a planetary magnetosphere for Mars.... It is kind of demoralizing to terraform a planet and create an atmosphere that will get blown away by the solar winds (even if that happens over a long period of time)
Yeah, if we want to solve this problem for the long term, you've got to block the solar wind from hitting Mars.
Wouldn't this create problems in the spacecraft with ferrous objects sticking to the walls and interfere with some instruments?
Oh, that would be a whole other problem. All the astronaut's credit cards would be demagnetized.
So I have to prepare a presentation for school (which is really really important ) and I have to explain how we could create an artificial magnetic field around Mars.
I did a lot of research but I still do not understand how these superconductors work and what effect they would have if placed in the space .
I really need help!
Hey Fraser, is there enough light in interstellar space to see your hand on front of your face? Also since our eyes absorb light to see, if no one were around would everything be just dark including stars?
Really enjoyed the vid. You guys need a more powerful light at that indoor location.
That's why we shoot outside. :-)
Q: why don't the Moon mission space suits block radiation?
A: there was no radiation in space in the old days so didn't need it...!?
Q: why aren't space suits used to clean up Nuke power plant spills?
A: because, that would be stupid, space suits are just nylon movie props.
What is max Q and why is it mid way during spaceX launches?
Not only do I think it is a good idea to be a pioneer, it is my namesake. I'm already in private circles in preparation for space application...
Love your videos
Thanks a lot, I'm glad you're enjoying them.
Fraser - love your stuff, I am learning a lot everyday... As such, time for a possible stupid question. Is the Alcubierre FTL theory sound or are these vides click bait for a Sci-Fact hopeful? Apologies if this has been covered or already disproven hocum.
With all the other methods mentioned to protect astronauts from radiation how about lead lined suits too? Put them on when the storm is coming?
They might be able to come up with something that could protect them for a while, and on Mars the gravity would be lower so you could wear a heavier spacesuit.
This appears to reduce/mitigate/solve one of two problems with outer space travel/existing. The. other is distance.
And we can make that up with speed, pure speed.
How earth magnetic field itself generates and how it has this vast range that can reaches beyond the atmosphere, from the sources perhaps very deep inside the core ?
It comes from the rapidly rotating iron core of the Earth.
Fraser Cain
Sorry for dumb question, so how all other rocky, spinning planets in solar system dont come with proportionality similar magnetic field surrounding them ?
Because they don't have plate tectonics the way the Earth does. Mars and Mercury are too small, and the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus shut down its plate tectonics.
Hi Fraser.
Wouldn't Faradays cage be good solution to create protective areas? Or it wouldn't block cosmic radiation?
They block electromagnetic radiation, but not the actual particles.
Hey Mr. Cain, great video again. I have some questions though, if we create artificial magnetosphere to a space station, would it create artificial Van Allen belts as well? If it does, could there be safe way to unload these belts without putting astronauts in danger?
I see there is no such problem if you create your magnetic field to say L1 Lagrangian point of Mars relative to the Sun, as you should have no reason to go close to that generator. I know there is such consept but have no idea if it's feasible or not.
Sure, it would create trapped radiation, but I'm assuming they'd have a way to get rid of it, so it's not constantly swirling around the space station.
If properly shielding the ship is difficult, would something like lead lined bodysuits that the astronauts wear most of the time be an effective solution? Might be a bit cumbersome, but astronauts aren't really in it for the comfort. How much lead would be needed?
is it possible to take a pill to get rid of radiation like in fallout?
Not like Fallout, but as Alien of Sol 3 said, there are supplements that can bind up particles. This is a big problem for airline workers, who are exposed to higher levels of radiation at their altitudes, so any medicines would be very helpful.
Wow, this kind of topics I love the most..
Can you make a video about volcanos in the solar system? Thanks
Sure, great suggestion.
Would the (sun/planet) lagrange point on the far side of any planet with a strong magneto sphere be positioned such that it would be shielded from solar radiation by the planet's magneto sphere?
I think until these technologies are available all manned missions to the Moon and Mars should be performed inside lava tubes on those places. There is no point in exposing astronauts to radiation if they (and their instruments) can go underground and be 100% protected. Inside a cave you can stay for as long as you have food and air, radiation becomes a non-issue.
Which makes the whole idea of traveling to other worlds a little less enjoyable. You'll spend all your time stuck in a tunnel.
You gotta start somewhere. We live on borrowed time here.
Fraiser Cain NASA is also looking into genetic engineering. They will be able to create astronauts in the future that can take more radiation than an ordinary human.
I have two questions. 1st. question If a black hole swallows mass and energy what happens to the energy? Since with time being brought to a stop wouldn't the temperature be absolute zero? or would its temperature in the billions of degrees? Since heat is a measure of the speed of atoms movement which is correct? 2nd. question What effect does the billions of watts of energy passing into the earth from the magnetosphere have on the planet? Does it help to keep the core hot like a electric heating element? Does it act as a dynamo and help to produce the magnetosphere? All of the energy must go somewhere.
But wouldn´t the magnetic shield at the L1 point act like some kind of solarsail and you would have to steer against this radiation pressure. Or am i getting something worng here?
Yes, it would be experiencing pressure at L1, so you'd have to push against that to keep it in position.
Think about it this way: the first people to return to Earth from the surface of Mars would be international treasures. Now I'm not saying that would magically create a cure for cancer, but it if there were, they'd be one of the first to receive it, if/when it happens.
Personally, even if I got two decades shaved off of my life, I would have no regrets. My legacy would live much better and happier than me at that point anyway.
What about the energy needed?
So you still need as full enveloping EM shield not just an umbrella to protect a planet. So thought include a series of satellites that work to provide such a shield. This is stuff that would have to built on Mars. So do Plans to colonize Mars at all include plans to build an industrial complex there, as well?
Could you reconfigure VASIMR to create a magnetic field around a spaceship?
VASIMR is really cool as a propulsion system, but I'm not sure it it would make a good radiation shield.
Hi Fraser, nice video.
While there is so much discussion about developing these technologies to make Mars habitable, why does no one talk about developing technology to convert CO2 of Venus into other components like O2 and carbon itself? Won't that make much more sense? The same tech would be useful on Earth as well.
In order to extract the CO2, you need to lock up the carbon to something else. The problem is that Venus lacks hydrogen. It all blew away from the solar wind.
I hope I'll live long enough to see that magnetic shield floating in the L1 Lagrange spot. Could you make a video about how cosmic rays make the athmosphere of a planet disappear ?
I could do an episode about why Mars lost its atmosphere and talk about that. I'll add that to my big list of topics.
thank you so much for all your good work :-)
Wow amazing things happening, I wonder could SR2S make a motor for a levitating craft?
I haven't heard anything from them since their first announcement, so I'm not sure.
If we can use artificial magnetic fields downstream a planet at the sun L1 point to block solar wind could we also use a constellation of them instead to divert it towards a planet like venus to blow off its atmosphere in a reasonable amount of time? As a possible terraforming strategy?
If i go to patreon do tou think you could help me with a story line... its bassiczlly about a ferrofluid cryonics storage of a head in space. If you can think of anyway it would be possible without radiation damage ... my b storyline charactor does it cause its a cheap long term solution to keeping it at minus 270 or whatever space is
Hi Fraser, great video on artificial magnetic fields. I have a question, couldn't we bore into Mars and drop some thermonuclear bombs to ignite the core and maybe that would create the magnetic field we need?
Even if you could, that wouldn't create the rotation you need inside the core. Mars is just too small and it solidified.
Everything I've read indicates the jury is still out on solid or part molten. 3 to 5 billion years ago Mars quit producing a magnetosphere. Mars mass (half of the earth) was too light to keep going. You add mass to her till she reaches earths weight, she'll fire back up. IMO
very clear explanations - high quality presentation - much more better than curious droid
Just plant a little patch of bamboo or Kudzu on Mars and in about 3 months you will have a lush green planet. Downside is that you will never be able to get rid of it.
The donut seems easy with in situ resources and automatic excavators.
Fraser - Wouldn't surrounding a spacecraft or a colony with a powerful magnetic field block radio communications?
Oh for sure, you'd need to keep your communications antenna outside the field.
OK - but the Apollo spacecraft did communicate with Mission Control through the Earth's magnetosphere, so is only a certain band of radio frequencies blocked and/or does it depend on the magnetic field strength?
And what about the effects of the intense magnetic field on the spacecraft's (or the colony's) own electrical and electronic systems within the shielded zone?
It seems like building a shielded compartment into craft makes more sense. if we're already carrying the weight in supplies, why not just redesign a small section with those supplies stored in the outer walls? then no cool blanket fort needs to be built. it's already incorporated into the design of that segment of the craft. just hop in.
ideally all sections of all crafts would be shielded in this way, but they probably don't have enough supplies for that in current missions. i guess everything gets easier once we start building craft in space and don't have to launch so much payload. Lunar mining! ... uh, with drones i guess.
Xenomorph joke earned my 'like'. XD
Thanks, been waiting to use that...
I hope this remains being a joke!
Xenomorphs are no joke my friend!