I believe the Buddha said not to follow anything that did not accord with your own reason. How can any outsider know the truth behind these claims and counter-claims or whether there are two Karmapas or one ? What I do know however is that one of these two touches me deeply through his sweetness, his humility and and wisdom. It is he he whom I accept in heart............
1) Guys read Terchen Chokgyur Lingpa's Prediction - 1st KARMAPA to 21st KARMAPA in details. 2) Guys read well 1st to 16th KARMAPA #BIOGRAPHY carefully, who recognised, who Enthroned KARMAPA, before passed away letter gived to whom. 3) Guys read - Prophecy of 5th KARMAPA about 17th KARMAPA. 4) 8th KARMAPA - Mikyö Dorje was born in Satam, Kham. According to the legend, he said after being born: "I am Karmapa." and was recognized by "#Tai #Situpa" 10th KARMAPA -  Chöying Dorje was born in the kingdom of Golok, Amdo. At the age of eight, he was recognized by #Shamar Mipam Chökyi Wangchuk, the sixth "Shamarpa." 13th KARMAPA - Dudul Dorje was born in Champa Drongsar and recognized by "#Gyaltsab #Rinpoche" at the age of four. 14th KARMAPA - Thekchok Dorje was born in Danang, Kham and was #recognized because "#Drukchen Kunzig Chokyi Nangwa" received a #letter from Dudul Dorje, the thirteenth Karmapa, detailing where his next reincarnation would be born. He was ordained at the age of nineteen as a monk. 16th KARMAPA - The 16th Karmapa was born in Denkhok in the Dergé province in Eastern Tibet, Kham, near the Dri Chu or Yangtze River. The previous Karmapa Khakhyab Dorje (1871-1922) left a letter setting forth the circumstances of his next incarnation. The Karmapa's attendant, Jampal Tsultrim, possessed the letter of #prediction, which matched exactly with the proceeding the "11th #Tai #Situpa " was already undertaking to find the 16th Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje.
The two Karmapas recently met in France and issued a joint statement that they will share the responsibility of making the karma kagyu flourish again. All these people are wrong!!!!!
in the letter and prediction of the karmapa it says Karmapa is boddhisattva and can many many in different realms....two karmapa is not enough we can more than hundreds.
I think the best way to decide which Karmapa to follow is by attending teachings with both of them; I had this opportunity and happened to feel deeply connected to Karmapa Thaye Dorje. The other one made me feel that I was in a room full of China. Everyone can have a different opinion; as Shamar Rinpoche indicates in the video, what problem would there be if some Kagyupas follow one Karmapa and others follow another? I would keep samaya with mine, they with whichever one they like best.
It s not one karmapa or another karmapa it s the teachings. If both karmapas teach a genuine BuddhaDharma , and it appears they are doing that, what s the problem with you guys? "Do not rely on the individual, rely on the teachings" this is what the Buddha says, right? Buddhism is not about politics and we know the proverb "Divide et impera", don t we.
Zharmar Rimpoche ‘s point of view looks more political of issue than proving with facts. Particularly when he said “ Karma of Tsurphu can’t own land and can not change his citizen.I believe Karmapa doesn’t necessarily have to be Indian. Can reincarnate form any part of the world I guess.
The Karmapa fued from what I've seen, started well before either karmapa were born. I have received teachings, initiation and empowerments from the16th Karmapa and all 4 regents. I was there at KTD when Shamar showed up with his sister Chimay and other family members. It, the fued, had already started. May have started when HH Karmapa's heart relic came out on Situ Rinpoche' s side. Karmapa cheno. I like both candidates.
There is an awful lot of Tibetan prevarication in this video. I wouldn't believe any of it! Sharmapa is famous for causing trouble in every life and he has now passed away. We have two good well educated young lamas serving the Dharma. .The one is the West has married and is no longer a monk. The one in India is still a monk. The point is practice, not titles.
mis hermanos en el Dharma..., sois las valiosas joyas que voy encontrando..., en el sendero del camino..., hacia el abandono del sufrimiento de samsara..., y por el beneficio de tod@s l@s seres del ciclo de existencias..., podamos tod@s alcanzar la iluminacion.
Make no financial offering to incarnate lamas. They amass lot of wealth and after their death ,the people who were around dead lamas fight bring their own incarnates to claim wealth and property . Offer them fruits , food and flowers only. then real incarnates will sustain and false will leave.
I don't know who is true Karmapa and who is not by myself. But honestly Sharmarpa Rinpoche is kind of full of anger when speaking about this issue.. That is something i really don't expect from people like him.
How can Shamar Rinpoche's reasoning be inherently flawed when there is no inherent existence of such a reasoning? I think what Rinpoche is saying about the Karmapa regards the recognition; of course someone else can recognize the the Karmapa or any other lama as a Buddha, but we have to realize the nature of mind ourselves, regardless of which Karmapa we may follow. Of course, I see Thaye Dorje as Vajradhara, but not because Shamar Rinpoche told me to, but because of Karmapa's blessings:)
There are various opinions on that topic. Each has a side. Some say both are legetime. Some are fighting. In terms of genuine Karmapa I believe that the time will show who is the real one. Maybe a complete stranger. It is all about realization, realizing the nature of buddha mind and even supernatural power. If one of the candidates would have realized it all would know. But this is not the case. So there is the possibility that no one of both is the real Karmapa. This is my honest opinion
controversy of many is only a reflection of their own limited view of the meaning of reincarnation....and spirit of competition....time to understand as we are all part of one another..and what we are in the physical body today may be a connection to many ascended masters....we share what we are in the precious presence of NOW...TODAY is what is the focus of our existence...
We can't judge that trinley thaye dorje and ugyen trinley dorje which one is genuine karmapa. If we go back to history karmapa was always recognize by (the red hat karmapa) shamarpa rinpoche and shamarpa rinpoche was always recognize by karmapa and shamarpa rinpoche was authorized lama of karma kagyu lineage.so dear dharma friends please don't blame shamarpa rinpoche,who is the one of the second supreme head of karma kagyu lineage.. please do not judge that one is genuine karmapa and another one is duplicate karmapa.there is also two yangsi of His holiness dudjom rinpoche they don't have blame each other 1dudjom rinpoche yangsi was recognize by HH jadrel rinpoche and another one was recognize by previous HH dudjom rinpoche own wife her holiness khandro..
The Dalai Lama, Thrangu Rinpoche, and Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche, three holy beings by most standards (except those who hysterically denounce the DL) have recognized and taught Orgyen Trinley Dorje. This Karmapa for his part has refused to have harsh words for Shamar Rinpoche. For the other, Taye Dorje, he seems a kind and holy person. Perhaps none of us fully understand on this side of samsara. The idiotic and hysterical ideas about Orgyen T. Dorje being a Chinese agent have been debunked
may all find peace and happiness, we are truly blessed and when the world needs more than one karmapa, there will be more than one karmapa, until we all have become living buddhas.
I don't no how this man Dogu Bhutia became a MLA ... here we are talking abt karmapa but this man is talking abt property hahaha that's makes clear tat shamar group r interested in Rumtak monetary property .....
Just watch at 5.13 the guy is telling that Shamar has right to own all the properties of 16th Karmapa. Its doesn't work that way. All the estate and property (temples and monasteries) belong to incarnate Lama not the cousin or relative. Even Karmapa parent claim it. This is tradition how it works. In the past previous Sharmar was relative Panchen Lama at that time also Sharmar tried to take the estate of Panchen Lama which was blocked by Tibetan government.
It is strange, that two Karmapas never met each other in any religious event, celebration or ceremony. Is it not mysterious? If both were 16th Karmapa's emanations, then they would love each other and talk between themselves on a cellphones. There is something fishy here, isn't it? Something not kosher. Buddha knows what's wrong. Do you?
H. H. Shamar Rinpoche is right !!! my all the friend family, there is no reason to discuss each other. why you people talk more ???????????????? why you people wasting time?????????????
If urgyen thinley is real karmapa then why dalai lama kicked him from usa?why jangmon kontrol rinpoche also left monk and went to india for study doctor?he clearly said that he is not rinpoche he just want to be normal life.
Shamarpa m a volé ma force pour obtenir le pouvoir il m a laissée comme une légume à la merci de ceux qui me voulaient du mal c est à cause de lui que j ai été une pestiferee toute ma vie
It is obvious the truth who is genuine who is faking and trying to be a Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama is the Omnicient Lord of love it is impossible he is wrong. Tai Situ Rinpoche has no evil connections with the Chinese government. Enlightenment is dependent on this lower birth and future suffering will result in listening to Shamar at this time. Thayae has kleshas and unourifiedd emotions. Visualize your yidam rest your mind trust the obvious ignore all other words.
Choskyi Nyima ....you almost sound enlightened! ....but there’s a sayin. “The ignorant are over confident n the wise are ever doubtful “.....stupid like me just follow logics ,facts etc....cause not all r enlightened like yourself ....I’m sure u can foresee the future too...lol
I believe the Buddha said not to follow anything that did not accord with your own reason. How can any outsider know the truth behind these claims and counter-claims or whether there are two Karmapas or one ? What I do know however is that one of these two touches me deeply through his sweetness, his humility and and wisdom. It is he he whom I accept in heart............
1) Guys read Terchen Chokgyur
Lingpa's Prediction -
1st KARMAPA to
21st KARMAPA in details.
2) Guys read well 1st to 16th
KARMAPA #BIOGRAPHY
carefully, who recognised, who
Enthroned KARMAPA, before
passed away letter gived to
whom.
3) Guys read - Prophecy of 5th
KARMAPA about 17th
KARMAPA.
4) 8th KARMAPA - Mikyö Dorje was
born in Satam, Kham. According
to the legend, he said after
being born: "I am Karmapa." and
was recognized by "#Tai
#Situpa"
10th KARMAPA -  Chöying Dorje
was born in the kingdom
of Golok, Amdo. At the age of
eight, he was recognized by
#Shamar Mipam Chökyi
Wangchuk, the sixth
"Shamarpa."
13th KARMAPA - Dudul Dorje was
born in Champa Drongsar and
recognized by "#Gyaltsab
#Rinpoche" at the age of four.
14th KARMAPA - Thekchok Dorje
was born in
Danang, Kham and was
#recognized because
"#Drukchen Kunzig Chokyi
Nangwa" received a #letter
from Dudul Dorje, the
thirteenth Karmapa,
detailing where his next
reincarnation would be born.
He was ordained at the age of
nineteen as a monk.
16th KARMAPA - The 16th
Karmapa was born in
Denkhok in the Dergé
province in Eastern
Tibet, Kham, near the Dri Chu
or Yangtze River.
The previous Karmapa
Khakhyab Dorje
(1871-1922) left a letter setting
forth the circumstances of his
next incarnation. The
Karmapa's attendant, Jampal
Tsultrim, possessed
the letter of #prediction, which
matched exactly
with the proceeding the
"11th #Tai #Situpa " was
already undertaking to
find the 16th Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje.
The two Karmapas recently met in France and issued a joint statement that they will share the responsibility of making the karma kagyu flourish again. All these people are wrong!!!!!
Not really. Everything is subjected to its own context, and this documentary is 27 years old.
in the letter and prediction of the karmapa it says Karmapa is boddhisattva and can many many in different realms....two karmapa is not enough we can more than hundreds.
I am also the karmapa
Ridiculous really - this is all about politics...
I wonder why Milarepa went into the mountains?
I think the best way to decide which Karmapa to follow is by attending teachings with both of them; I had this opportunity and happened to feel deeply connected to Karmapa Thaye Dorje. The other one made me feel that I was in a room full of China. Everyone can have a different opinion; as Shamar Rinpoche indicates in the video, what problem would there be if some Kagyupas follow one Karmapa and others follow another? I would keep samaya with mine, they with whichever one they like best.
It s not one karmapa or another karmapa it s the teachings. If both karmapas teach a genuine BuddhaDharma , and it appears they are doing that, what s the problem with you guys?
"Do not rely on the individual, rely on the teachings" this is what the Buddha says, right? Buddhism is not about politics and we know the proverb "Divide et impera", don t we.
Zharmar Rimpoche ‘s point of view looks more political of issue than proving with facts. Particularly when he said “ Karma of Tsurphu can’t own land and can not change his citizen.I believe Karmapa doesn’t necessarily have to be Indian. Can reincarnate form any part of the world I guess.
The Karmapa fued
from what I've seen, started well before either karmapa were born. I have received teachings,
initiation and
empowerments from the16th Karmapa and all 4 regents. I was there at KTD when Shamar showed up with his sister Chimay and other family members. It, the fued, had already started. May have started when HH Karmapa's heart relic came out on Situ Rinpoche' s side. Karmapa cheno. I like both candidates.
There is an awful lot of Tibetan prevarication in this video. I wouldn't believe any of it! Sharmapa is famous for causing trouble in every life and he has now passed away. We have two good well educated young lamas serving the Dharma. .The one is the West has married and is no longer a monk. The one in India is still a monk. The point is practice, not titles.
Wendy S. King the one in India has ran away to America hahahahahaha and now he personally issued statement that both are Karmapa hahahahahaa
@@rileydoe2629 He ran aeay because he was imprisonen inside India by the Indian goverment.
@@buddhistphilosopher800 he ran away from China and then from India but I'm sure he will stay in the land of freedom for a long time
@@rileydoe2629 Sure he is. He now can travel and teach wherever he wants and needs.
mis hermanos en el Dharma..., sois las valiosas joyas que voy encontrando..., en el sendero del camino..., hacia el abandono del sufrimiento de samsara..., y por el beneficio de tod@s l@s seres del ciclo de existencias..., podamos tod@s alcanzar la iluminacion.
Ugyen TObgay RInpoche has clearing said whatever documentation made by Tai Saitu Rinpoche is untrue.
Which is real Karmapa I’m so confused would you please tell us a bit. Thank you
Make no financial offering to incarnate lamas. They amass lot of wealth and after their death ,the people who were around dead lamas fight bring their own incarnates to claim wealth and property . Offer them fruits , food and flowers only. then real incarnates will sustain and false will leave.
I don't know who is true Karmapa and who is not by myself. But honestly Sharmarpa Rinpoche is kind of full of anger when speaking about this issue.. That is something i really don't expect from people like him.
this video proves that tibetant buddhism is complicated and everyone has its words.
How can Shamar Rinpoche's reasoning be inherently flawed when there is no inherent existence of such a reasoning? I think what Rinpoche is saying about the Karmapa regards the recognition; of course someone else can recognize the the Karmapa or any other lama as a Buddha, but we have to realize the nature of mind ourselves, regardless of which Karmapa we may follow. Of course, I see Thaye Dorje as Vajradhara, but not because Shamar Rinpoche told me to, but because of Karmapa's blessings:)
My question is to all great rinpoche how many karma pa will be there after this 17th reincarnation.
Summary 21 Incarnations of Gyalwang Karmapa
@@FlussdesLebens1 but rt now there are two of them ,so many left?
Thrangu Rinpoche said that there were never 2 or 3 Karmapas. Karmapa is so unique und special that the World only needs one genuine Karmapa.
@@FlussdesLebens1 so which one is the right one
There are various opinions on that topic. Each has a side. Some say both are legetime. Some are fighting. In terms of genuine Karmapa I believe that the time will show who is the real one. Maybe a complete stranger. It is all about realization, realizing the nature of buddha mind and even supernatural power. If one of the candidates would have realized it all would know. But this is not the case. So there is the possibility that no one of both is the real Karmapa.
This is my honest opinion
controversy of many is only a reflection of their own limited view of the meaning of reincarnation....and spirit of competition....time to understand as we are all part of one another..and what we are in the physical body today may be a connection to many ascended masters....we share what we are in the precious presence of NOW...TODAY is what is the focus of our existence...
We can't judge that trinley thaye dorje and ugyen trinley dorje which one is genuine karmapa. If we go back to history karmapa was always recognize by (the red hat karmapa) shamarpa rinpoche and shamarpa rinpoche was always recognize by karmapa and shamarpa rinpoche was authorized lama of karma kagyu lineage.so dear dharma friends please don't blame shamarpa rinpoche,who is the one of the second supreme head of karma kagyu lineage.. please do not judge that one is genuine karmapa and another one is duplicate karmapa.there is also two yangsi of His holiness dudjom rinpoche they don't have blame each other 1dudjom rinpoche yangsi was recognize by HH jadrel rinpoche and another one was recognize by previous HH dudjom rinpoche own wife her holiness khandro..
The Dalai Lama, Thrangu Rinpoche, and Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche, three holy beings by most standards (except those who hysterically denounce the DL) have recognized and taught Orgyen Trinley Dorje. This Karmapa for his part has refused to have harsh words for Shamar Rinpoche. For the other, Taye Dorje, he seems a kind and holy person. Perhaps none of us fully understand on this side of samsara. The idiotic and hysterical ideas about Orgyen T. Dorje being a Chinese agent have been debunked
may all find peace and happiness, we are truly blessed and when the world needs more than one karmapa, there will be more than one karmapa, until we all have become living buddhas.
There is a video of Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama was saying that can come five reincarnations of 16 Karmapa.
This obstacle appeared not for Karmapa but for the people. True believer follows his master. The master leads believers to heaven.
有人可用中文翻譯嗎？
I don't no how this man Dogu Bhutia became a MLA ... here we are talking abt karmapa but this man is talking abt property hahaha that's makes clear tat shamar group r interested in Rumtak monetary property .....
Tashi dhundup bhutia Tashi dhundup bhutia 💩💩head
h
hay shamarpa whatsup,
Just watch at 5.13 the guy is telling that Shamar has right to own all the properties of 16th Karmapa. Its doesn't work that way. All the estate and property (temples and monasteries) belong to incarnate Lama not the cousin or relative. Even Karmapa parent claim it. This is tradition how it works. In the past previous Sharmar was relative Panchen Lama at that time also Sharmar tried to take the estate of Panchen Lama which was blocked by Tibetan government.
if you believe karma is the Boddhisattva then he can reincarnate many manifestation, dont say it can be many.
It is strange, that two Karmapas never met each other in any religious event, celebration or ceremony. Is it not mysterious? If both were 16th Karmapa's emanations, then they would love each other and talk between themselves on a cellphones. There is something fishy here, isn't it? Something not kosher. Buddha knows what's wrong. Do you?
dtseringdorje they finally met and now Dalai Lama said both are Karmapa hahahahahaa
@@rileydoe2629 That’s great. Give me the link to video or internet page.
H. H. Shamar Rinpoche is right !!! my all the friend family, there is no reason to discuss each other. why you people talk more ????????????????
why you people wasting time?????????????
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%sureeeeee..karmapa urgyen Thinley Dorje khenno..
Nobody can’t not decide to real fake .
If urgyen thinley is real karmapa then why dalai lama kicked him from usa?why jangmon kontrol rinpoche also left monk and went to india for study doctor?he clearly said that he is not rinpoche he just want to be normal life.
Shamarpa m a volé ma force pour obtenir le pouvoir il m a laissée comme une légume à la merci de ceux qui me voulaient du mal c est à cause de lui que j ai été une pestiferee toute ma vie
there is need to talk more!!!
U want to create the disturbance shamar rinpochey!
what a waste of time and energy
Totally ignorant comment! Do a tiny bit of research before you post. It's easy to do research these days. Google search: Karmapa Thaye Dorje parents
It is obvious the truth who is genuine who is faking and trying to be a Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama is the Omnicient Lord of love it is impossible he is wrong. Tai Situ Rinpoche has no evil connections with the Chinese government. Enlightenment is dependent on this lower birth and future suffering will result in listening to Shamar at this time. Thayae has kleshas and unourifiedd emotions. Visualize your yidam rest your mind trust the obvious ignore all other words.
Choskyi Nyima ....you almost sound enlightened! ....but there’s a sayin. “The ignorant are over confident n the wise are ever doubtful “.....stupid like me just follow logics ,facts etc....cause not all r enlightened like yourself ....I’m sure u can foresee the future too...lol
Choskyi Nyima ....my comment is frm a neutral point of view....
@@kunsang552 The future will show.
opnh
Hahaha 2,2 karma pa.it is impossible lol. 18th karma pa will be 3,3 lol
this Karmapa issues is created by dalai lama,like shugden problem....
they should make a vote democracy is really useful