Hearing these tales of poorly compensated pianists helps me put an experience I had many years ago into perspective. I had agreed to play a recital program gratis for a private event. After the event, the organizer rushed out to tell me as I was leaving how wonderful the recital was and handed me an envelope. It contained $10. I didn't mind playing for free, but to be offered such a pittance in recognition of all that had gone into that performance deeply insulted me.
Had a similar story from a performance last summer. I would have played for free but instead they gave a minimal "symbolic" fee which was even taxed 30% in the end.. for some reason this was more upsetting than playing for free
I'm 44yo and have had a career behind me in classical piano playing. Played Gaspard (complete) for my senior recital, so I know I'm at least a decent player. But the solo life did not appeal to me, I had too many other interests. I've been writing music since I was a child and have a degree in composition as well. I'm an excellent sight-reader and made a career by accompanying (instrumental and vocal), and pursued chamber music and getting jobs as staff accompanist at universities. I've always been overworked and underpaid, everywhere I've worked. Tried transitioning to faculty teaching, but everybody pigeonholed me as an "accompanist" and no one gave me a chance. Too much politics. But I am a good teacher, I know it from other successes (just not financial ones). All that to say I commiserate with you Denis. Currently, I'm a well-kept secret in my area (Los Angeles): a great player with musicality and skill, chamber musician, and teacher/composer who nobody's heard of because I've never been able to afford and agent or win any major competitions (that's by my choice though, I've always hated competing). Currently, I do a lot of "community" playing and teaching, more as a hobby, while looking for a different career now.
The REAL money for you will be in education. Develop courses concerning specific pieces of music. Learn about and maximize usage of tech to make distances disappear. Charge WHATEVER you want. It takes 5 years to build a 6 figure, well-behaved "stable". Join with other ambitious, like minded educators in LA and form coops, like lawyers do.
Yes I agree ! Music education, especially classical music , will be not only financially stable but also contributing brain development and psycho- social benefits to this world ! What you are contributing on your channel is far more impactful than Yuja wang master class !( not all world renown pianists know how to teach 😢) thanks for sharing this great topic ❤❤
I read a stat several year ago that stated that there are only about 200 pianists in the world who make a living primarily from concertizing. This number has been stable for several decades, at least since the 1980s. the reality, according to the report, was that the only real way to break into that 200 is for a person to leave it. The reason is that there are just so many good paying concert gigs in the entire world. This is why it drives me nuts when I see philanthropists saying we need to do more to promote "new talent." No we don't! There is more than enough new talent coming out of schools -- too many, in fact, for those who are seeking to make a living out of this. And we certainly don't need any more competitions. What we DO need are more opportunities for pianists and other soloists to perform and get paid something decent. And the only way to do that is to build support for live classical music -- more orchestras, more programing, and more audiences.
How can I upvote this comment more? I was aware of it already but not decades ago when I naively went to music school because I had been a natural at the piano from a very young age (initially by ear). Despite all the subsequent difficulties in life, I don't think I would trade it because of the degree to which music is a part of me, but my expectations were ultimately so far out of line with reality that over time and a few career changes it has helped contribute to extraordinary life-altering burnout.
@@asimplenameichose151 Thank you for your comment. We need more opportunities for people to perform, live and paid (or maybe on TH-cam!). But creating these opportunities is not easy or cheap. It's a lot more fun and easy for a rich person or institution to put their name on a competition or some program that "assists" young performers. The problem with these programs is that they run up to the Rule of 200. So if you assist anyone and actually get them into the 200, you are merely denying that opportunity to another person. It's a zero sum game. If we could expand that number from 200 to 220, that would make a big difference.
IMO there is a certain 'snobbery' we went to an Opera and the concert attendees were uppity, then we went to a punk concert and everyone was so nice and welcoming
This is one of the best classical music career videos I've seen to date. Thank you for the open and honest discussion about the true nature of the industry. I was a professional pianist, got my DMA in piano performance, won many significant piano competitions, and played in many major venues; however, at the end of the day, the career opportunities didn't allow me to see a future where I could support a family and live a somewhat normal life. I switched careers after my DMA into computer programming and am now financially very stable (more money than I could have dreamed of when working as a musician) and am still very fulfilled. The difference in stress and anxiety in making the switch to a career where money isn't a constant struggle was night and day. I play for myself when I have time, and I'll hopefully soon get back to playing with other musicians, which is ultimately what I truly enjoyed about music. You don't have to be a professional musician to still be an artist, and you can still fulfill your musical aspirations even if you do something else full time.
For me its similar. I am right now pursuing a Bachelor of Music in Piano Performance in a decent university in germany but all the stress, the competition, the terrible future regarding money is really something to be afraid of. I am also thinking, because I love music so much, to try and study conducting to maybe become a conductor and get a better income at an opera house instead of being a freelancer. But I am also seriously thinking about quitting music since I do have a lot of other interests as well. How hard was it for you to do something completely different from music? And dont you miss practicing and performing?
I was a music major in the early 70s. I got a low draft number so I joined the Army as a bandsman. It got me the GI Bill. On getting out of the Army I met a girl I wanted to marry. Even then it was obvious that making money in music was at best a remote possibility. So I became a lawyer. I did very well. Now that I am retired, I play piano 4 hours a day -- just for me, my wife and cats. Very fulfilling!!!
As a hobby pianist, thanks for confirming my decision to keep it that way. I love to play, and I love to play for other people, but the level of passion and drive that's required to succeed in this craft is beyond where I am looking to take my play. This understanding, however, does increase my appreciation for those that do pursue this career.
Same here. I only want to ever improve and play a couple performances a year for friends/family, maybe a bigger thing every now and then. But this as a career.. Can really kick the passion out of you.
I totally agree and making music videos in my early retirement years now gives me great joy and satisfaction regardless of the number of views I get!! Yes, those that have the fire, in their butt, as they say, I have a huge respect for!!!
There's not much more to say. Music is a passion, and as such, it doesn't mix well with financial gain. Countless hours of studying to then earn little or nothing, unlike other professions. I believe that economically it's a failed investment. But you can't reason only in economic terms. For some people, they can't live without playing music. I think good musicians should be better protected by governments and laws, by subsidizing culture more. A long-term investment to improve society as well. Unfortunately, music is considered a consumer good and not an art, and it is treated as such, with private individuals benefiting. You're doing a great job on TH-cam and the results will show. We are millions of piano fans and quality content will be appreciated. I consider you an excellent teacher and I'm learning so much from you, even though I only play for pure passion and have another job. But I'm glad I met you. Greetings from Italy. (translated by Gemini)
This problem kinda exists in all genres - as a musician your biggest competitors often are the ones who can afford to work for free or for cheap, because they have rich parents or a lucrative career somewhere else. They are just as good as you, but they can afford treating music as a hobby - which means that they can do it for free when they feel like it. If you want to make your living off of performing music, this puts you at a disadvantage, because, well, to the concert organizer the one who is willing to do it for less money is obviously the better deal, and also - because the one who can afford not to perform actually has more bargaining power. Their livelihood will not suffer, when they decline a bad gig. Yours will.
@@VegaJing-zn1cx The answer is very simple .Pop stars earn so much money for 3 reasons : 1) They play contemporary music 2) They have an excellent management and many fans and admirers ( not only of their music, of course ) 3) Last not least : they are really good in what they are doing Lang lang, Yuja Wang ( and many others before ) had to become a sort of pop stars to get to the top .
@@paulmeisel339 "really good in what they are doing" ... but a key element of this third reason is that usually "what they are doing" is not primarily music, though it is (often) performative / showbusiness. It is ultimately the sale of an image, of a brand. Classical musicians like those you mentioned have appropriated the trappings and (to some extent) the marketing involved in modern celebrity mechanics - the 'star-maker machinery' - to stay 'noticed' or continue to appear relevant. This is the bit that usually frustrates dedicated trained musicians (for whom the Venn diagram overlaps very little with successful pop stars). The massive disconnect between what they and the broader public associate with 'music', its history, its relevance, and its meaning.
I went to music conservatory and received a solo diploma when I was young . After that I went to Medical School and I graduated becoming a MD. Many years later I passed the residency and I became a qualified general surgeon. There were pieces I have never touched before and I had a break of ten years. Even not owning or having a piano. Now I'm 58 even able to play the Goldberg variations after I solved my Glenn Gould trauma. I play Petrouchka by Stravinsky or the Paganini variations by Brahms, because there's no more pressure to make a living out of it. Usually I spent almost 2 hrs on piano to practice and that seem's to bee enough. It looks like I'm the one who becomes better the older I am. When I was a young dude, I practiced sometimes like 6 or 8 hrs a day and that was counter productive and stupid. There's only one important issue where I have never ever changed my mind: I deny competitions because I don't belive that music is like sports. More important is to read novels, fairy tales, poetry, politics, history and listen to different music as much as possible. I enjoy listening to hard rock, punk like I enjoy listening to pop, jazz, blues or whatever. Anyways it's important to learn to perform and to play without sheets. So I went to jazz conservatory after being graduated as a so called "classical musician" and that's a big benefit . It helps to understand the architecture of sound, voicing and melodies and it's you who does it. Lifelong I'm listening and studying the mass in b- minor and the St. Matthew Passion by Johann Sebastian Bach because I belive that this genius works contains all important aspects of music like how to perform a melody. How to play polyphonic . How to train your ears to listen and to follow different voices at the very same time...Life is a great and big gift and too short. Of course: that does not reach out to make a living out of it but I enjoy every minute Ion my piano. It's hard to study Gaspard de la nuit for one concert and than get paid like 9 USD per hour...That's not my goal. If I would not smoke since 40 years, I would appreciate to sing in a choir. What a lot of so called "pianists" do not realize is that a human voice is our natural instrument and it's not about to avoid "wrong notes" or to play as fast and sterile as possible.... Anyway great tune! Thank you for this interview. I don't know this musician but he's right! Appreciate this!
From my experience in this industry while growing up in my teens (having participated in and won in up to international-level competitions), it is fundamentally built on nepotism and networking. Now, you might say that I must have taken advantage of that. No, not directly, but my piano teachers did because they were well-established in the industry. They saw my exceptional talent and worked very hard to promote me, for mutual benefit. This is one of the reasons I didn't pursue music in university or professionally, because my values don't align. Also, at the core, a significant portion of people who are non-musicians naïvely believe that all interpretation is good, but no, the real truth is all effective interpretations are good, hence why one needs to go to a school like Julliard or get a good teacher in the first place. However, very few can actually judge this with accuracy and even less with authority. This is a fundamental exploit that jury and well-established musicians use to get what they want with the people they want. So, is there a way to get around this? Yes, for me, because I participate in a different industry and don't need to please those in power in the music industry to play what I want without stress and expectations of producing popular overdone repertoire. I can also post it all on TH-cam so I don't need agents to get attention. That is what every musician ultimately wants. So, is there a way for professional musicians to get around this entire situation? Sort of yes, but it's two-fold. First is inspiration, which means inspiring an audience to treasure what you produce either implicitly or explicitly, through education or emotional evocation. But, please for the love of God, don't make brainrot and sensationalist content as you are just ultimately contributing to the degradation of society and the trivialization of your discipline. Second is actually producing it, unique in interpretation, but obviously if everyone does this than you no longer stand out. That's partly why I play relatively obscure repertoire that is simply underappreciated and underpromoted, but not lacking in value (actually, sometimes exceeding in value than conventional repertoire). To do so means you are helping undermine the nepotism that exists in this industry because they thrive on consumer trends and want the same people doing the same repertoire over and over, quite mindlessly. The other way is to do what I'm doing, which is have a main career other than music and do music as a hobby. You can be no less competent at music performance than anyone else by taking this approach, but it takes talent and intelligence to pull it off on your own. In both ways, you can establish an audience and be your own agent, and if you're able to convince people of your competence, then you can setup your own concerts with packed audiences without chipping away your revenue with a pathetically exploitative agent. Hope this helps any musician who reads this.
I found your comment quite interesting to read. But there’s one part I don’t understand. What do you mean by "The real truth is all effective interpretations are good"?? Could you pls explain it?
@Musicforever60 I don't have the little note in your handle but maybe you will see this anyway. Loved your in-depth insights and comments! Obviously you draw from a deep well of experience. I liked your conclusions very much. Much can be said about not just creativity and perseverance: But business sense and entrepreneurialism. Doing what we love is fuel to our passion and money is certainly not the only reward. I see it simply as a means to an end and not as the primary motivator at all. Art and beauty for the sake of art and beauty are fulfilling not just for their creators but for posterity. How many of the classical composers were not appreciated in their own lifetimes? We march to the beat of a different drummer. We follow our own call. And in my understanding, success and reward are not measured only in this life. ❤❤❤
@@MarxistischerMillionaerI think what was meant basically is that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Each artist can/will interpret slightly differently if they follow their own creativity and vision as well as passion. Which means an authentic interpretation though not precisely note for note what someone else would play can still be considered excellent. I'm certain you've heard the Beethoven quote about not playing with passion being inexcusable. And a wrong note is excusable. Which quote sums up exactly what I believe.
I played Beethoven's 5th concerto when I was in college. The fact that you played the Brahms' 2nd says something about your skill level - much higher than mine. It was nice to hear your honest perspective and the reality of the situation. I was never good enough to get into that market and, from your description, it appears best that I wasn't the caliber to enter into it. As a kid, I aspired to be the next Beethoven as a composer and/or concert pianist. Nerves got in the BIG time and I couldn't give a flawless performance. Secondly, I never developed my technique early enough to even compete on that level. My piano professor, bless his heart, never sat me down to give me the reality of my skill. He recommended going into education as that, in his words, was the most profitable to make money in music and still compose. My composition professor while working on my MA burned the bridge with me writing music when, in his words, I "refused to conform to the system." I pretty much lost that inspiration to compose at age 32, Thirty-three years into education and I can confirm that my piano professor was correct; however, it is not want I wanted to do with my life. The problem with making a career in music (I could give an hour lecture on this after years in education and performing on the road) is that it isn't a necessity for life. People have to eat, people have to shelter and people must have employment to earn the things they need and want. Music is a commodity to be bought and sold and with it come standards; however, the average Joe Public could care less about standards because music is art and they don't need it to survive or for their job. Unless a person took band, choir, orchestra into high school, they have no appreciation for quality compositional writing or the hours it takes to be an exceptional performer. None. The labels know this and they will push what makes them money. This is why so many rock musicians, that can't read a wit of music and only know a handful of chords, make millions of dollars and the concert pianist, who spent (you listed the hours involved) makes pennies on the dollar. I have no regrets having taken fourteen years of piano lessons. I can pretty much play a Henle level 7 piece with a little bit of practice and perform it. Having studied Bach and Dohnanyi excercises, I have the finger independence to bring out the alto line over the soprano for my singers, as well as play the accompaniment with my left hand. I also learned to play by ear, which makes it quite beneficial if I need to improvise something, like church hymns. I wish the C/W group that I was with in the late 1990s had made it to the B circuit as we were on the same circuit as the Dixie Chicks the year before I joined them on keys. That wasn't meant to be and I am still teaching junior high kids, hoping to give them a lifetime skill and the joy of music. Sorry to be long-winded. I appreciate your video. Thanks a lot.
@@jimkelseymusiccjh So you became wise in the end , most people never get so far in their lives. You seem to be a really good musician , maybe you could publish your own compositions ( in case you're liking them 😉 ). There's quite a few of piano composers , which wrote a lot of very nice pieces in the last 50 years . My pupils often started real playing with f.e. " La mattina " or "Primavera" from Ludovico Einaudi . At first I didn't like him at all , but the kids did - and some of the older people too . We're living in the 21. century , of course not everything is " better " than before : it's just different !
Very interesting post! I began formal piano lessons at age 5, and ended up with a performance diploma from a respected conservatory. Along the way I also developed the ability to play 'by ear' and spent decades in 'rock n roll' and night club bands, making a decent living. As a retired lawyer, I now play a monthly (paid) church gig. I have great respect for the diligence and effort it takes to become a concert pianist. However, after reading Denis' account the phrase that comes to mind is "be careful what you wish for".
I can totally relate to your video. Thank you for bringing up this topic !! There are also other aspects you didn't mention: the cost of buying and maintening an decent instrument, finding a flat that can accomodate such an instrument. I'm not even talking about the problems one can face if your neighbours don't tolerate you practicing music... the list is endless. You need big money in the first place, talent, perseverance, social skills, chance, a strong charachter, dedication and so on.... Please talk about the mafia behaviours at work in competitions. It's about time this should be revealed and destroyed. Sorry for my English.
The trouble is times have changed so much that the biggest earners in music performance are not concert pianists who have to train 10 hours a day to learn the most difficult repertoire, but TH-camrs or tiktokers who only have to learn interstellar and earn huge amounts of revenue for very little effort or work. Amateurs who have only learnt piano for a few years go live and earn thousands in gifts or from TH-cam earnings and are light years apart from a trained concert pianist. The concert pianists are learning music that’s too discreet to be noticed by algorithms and too unpopular, hard work is not rewarded in today’s world. The mass audience don’t appreciate Bartoks piano concerto or liszts spanish fantasy, they want and pay for interstellar or meme songs that are popular, I don’t know that being a concert pianist in the traditional sense is any longer a viable job or something to aim for, it’s too competitive and reaps little reward for such a hard challenging life.
Why can’t concert pianists do both? If what you say is true, a smart business savvy musician who is skilled could easily learn the so called meme pieces and probably play them much better and more elaborately. It’s more that their own egos won’t let them capitalize on music they deem less worthy. It’s silly, from a pragmatic stand point.
I've been successful in social media. I work 365 days a year, mostly 12+ hours per day. And I really mean 365 days a year. But its the same with everything. You cannot take the most refined and complex form of anything and try to get the 99% to appreciate it. Success in any business is about not making it about you, but about the things people need and desire. Most people are at level 0, looking to get to level 1. Only 0.0001% are ready for the Transcendental Etudes.
@@RandomButBeautiful I disagree with one thing you said. I think more people appreciate the refined and elegant than you know. People could definitely tell teh difference between say an amateur playing moonlight sonata vs a pro (moonlight sonata being a toe in the water piece for people new to classical, for example).
If you ever get an offer to perform in Tenerife, you are cordially invited to stay in our place! We are at a walking distance from the concert hall. I mean it! 😊
I loved your video. That's why I run my own festivals and projects for more than a decade now. I fundraise, develop, manage and play and my financial situation is so much better than friends who have agents. My artistic diginity is also intact. A couple of years ago I started mentoing musicians who want to jumpstart or furhter their careers through entrepreneurship. My new YT channel on the subject will be launched after my third festival this year in Brazil. Thank you so much for speaking up the truthe with all the details.
What an awesome video Denis. Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us all. I never realised how much adversity concert pianists face outside of the music itself! We all fantasise about being concert pianists sometimes so it's good to know the reality of it. Many future musicians will benefit from this video.
the more spiritual the undertaking, the less the pay in money, yet the more in currency of the spirit (profound meaning). I admire your strategy of carving your own way. The gatekeeping is really dehumanizing, and keeps the unique artists out, lets the similar sounding more "safe" ones in. Classical music looses appeal, when we keep hearing "correct" interpretations of long ago dead composers. I really think so many artists with a special own touch are not known because of gatekeepers.
I don’t feel it that way. Interpretations of many quickly rising modern stars destroy all the boundaries taught in schools, pushing everything to extreme. Quick examples are ecstatic self-burning Trifonov, “clowny” Lang Lang, or a wild cat-woman Yuja Wang, or overly sensual and melodramatic Khatia. Any of them would be treated as freaks for the way they play and self-present in the 20th century. Nowadays more than ever artists don’t give a f about traditions and “good taste”, experimenting wildly in order not to be forgettable. It’s a very exciting time to live in.
@@DenZhdanovPianist I think those modern musicians help classical music to reach more people by breaking the elitist and traditional representation of the style. To me it's going back to the roots where concerts were just entertainment and not a religious mass.
I am grateful for all Denis's insights, musical & verbal & interested tho sorry to hear my impressions fm hosting prof musicians confirmed. I wish to add that my audience members are also often q unaware of how brilliant & innovative new generations of musicians are, not conforming at all to the same old same old definitive interpretations. The industry is a v tough one & there are more supplies of gifted musicians than audiences to support them. Good luck to you all 🌹
⭐️Well done! ⭐️ This video should be shown to every prospective pianist or soloist who is wishing to major in music PRIOR to enrollment. In academia none of this is ever discussed before, during, or after. We all have to find out the hard way - the cruel, brutal, hard way haha. Back in the last century, I was fortunate enough to have studied with some very great famous teachers and, like most pianists, struggled to make a career. So I left NYC and returned back home to Arizona. At one of my local performances an agent for Columbia Artists happened to be in the audience and to my incredible shock and excitement, came back stage and offered me a contract to play a series of concerts in the southwest US with the promise of branching out from there. What started out as an apparent dream come true turned out to be the proverbial nightmare ha. I had a full time nonmusical job at the time and had to struggle to juggle that with preparing a difficult program, travel, bad pianos, lack of or no rehearsal time, annoying people at the venue,etc. Long story short, it only lasted a season and I ended up getting fired from my day job because I took too much time off to prepare for a particular concert lol I even self promoted for awhile with some surprising success, but it just wasn’t in the cards for me. The good news is, like you, I’ve learned tons of unbelievably great music throughout my life with a seemingly unlimited amount of repertoire on the agenda. Sadly I’ll die before I get to it all. I know it sounds corny, but music has been my best, most loyal friend and a dependably effective form of therapy. I would’ve ended it long ago without it in my life. And no one can take that away from me so I feel very fortunate! 🍀 🎹
Incredibly inspirational video! This resonates not only with pianists but with all musicians. Carving out your own path in the music world is challenging but so rewarding. I love running multiple music schools to support myself, but there’s nothing quite like the thrill of amazing performance opportunities. Most people don’t realize how many hours go into perfecting a single performance. Sometimes all that practice shines through, and sometimes it doesn’t-just part of the journey. Thank you for sharing this! ❤
I am British, but have lived in Spain for 27 years. I never thought of myself as a pianist, because I have always played several instruments, I loved singing in choirs and reading about music. I studied music at Oxford and then got a degree in piano from a conservatory in Spain. I passed the competitive state exams, known as oposiciones, to become a piano teacher in a national music conservatory, where I have been teaching for 25 years. I also play the organ in the local cathedral (for which I hardly get paid at all). The job stability of working in a national conservatory has allowed me to enjoy music and have a comfortable life, unlike most professional musicians. I sometimes feel sorry for young pianists who study so many hours for so many years, and end up with nothing to show for it economically. Sadly, these days, live music is not properly appreciated. People are not willing to pay to hear competent classical musicians, if they are not world class and/or famous. Technology is to blame for that, but as mentioned here, perhaps technology is also the solution.
The issue is just the large supply of willing pianists. Because of the intrinsic appeal of a life of music, there will always be many people willing to pursue a career in it, even if every other aspect of the career is terrible. And in such a situation, there will always be people to take advantage of you. All the inequities follow from the excess supply. The situation is quite similar in academia, where there is also a far larger supply than demand for faculty positions and for similar reasons: the intrinsic appeal of the life of the mind. However, I think the appeal is less strong and the demand is higher, so the effect is correspondingly less pronounced. Even adjunct professors in the US don't work as hard for as little money and are as overqualified as concert pianists working for a few bucks an hour.
When I was young, aged about 9 years old, I realised that I did not have the perseverance to become a concert pianist. I was also from a poor background and I did not have parents who would carry me if I had no income either. And looking at this video I'm so glad I didn't bother. I have made many mistakes and wrong turns in life and am full of regrets, but I'm so glad I didn't try the concert pianist route. It would have led to even more misery. I still play every day and have been successful in a different sphere.
Thanks for making this video and speaking so truthfully! I'm a pianist living in NY, so I know how competitive it is. In the U.S., many of us (and other instrumentalists as well) realize we can't all become the next rising stars, so we learned to wear many hats as private teachers, collaborative pianists, church musicians, orchestral musicians, directors, entrepreneurs, etc. If you have a doctoral degree and are lucky enough to get a college teaching position, maybe a music professor somewhere. All are perhaps more financially stable paths than simply being a concert pianist, but it's equally competitive and there are many downsides too, as so many institutions are cutting funding in arts. Young people definitely need to know these "dark sides" to better prepare themselves for the future.
Agreed 100%. Great video! When I was studying and preparing for piano competitions back in 2008, I had an entourage who believed I could make a career. But I got out into the world and quickly understood there were literally thousands of pianists who were even better than me. I understood that at best, I could make it to the B-league of pianists who can almost make a living out of it, but only if I would put in the effort to be liked by influential people. I have an innate disgust for status, nepotism and "networking", so I quickly realized I wasn't made for the life of a pianist career. Now I play concerts when I want to, about one a year. I get paid peanuts and with the satisfaction of completing a project. I also pay with a choir and don't have to be at peak performance all the time. I also own a farm and grow and sell vegetables. This is also an economic disaster. I teach two days a week and get just enough income from that. I'm poor by my own choosing and proud of it. I gave myself the advice in this video 16 years ago and I hope the right people today get to hear this message at the right time!
I might add that it was after a masterclass with Virsaladze that I understood I'd better not pursue a career. Some of the other students were more accomplished, more talented and more driven. She was kind to me but I could tell from her body language that she thought I wasn't made for the career life and she was right.
She is tough indeed and one should be prepared for a severe and terrifying treatment. However, unlike many other great teachers, she never humiliated students (on my memory). Also, I think she is getting much kinder with age))) you probably got to her too early... ;(
So the classical establishment is "fixed" in favour of agents. Most pianists trying to break in to the established "classical" world will be paid so little for performing (if they get any performances at all) that when practice time, travel etc. are figured in the income is less than the minimum wage. This is possible because there is a massive oversupply of excellent pianists and the conservatoires and colleges are churning out dozens more every year.
As a former clasaical musician playing an orchestral instrument, I can say that everything you say is so true! I won several auditions at very good orchestras but that’s not enough to land a job. You also need the right contacts. I love music but decided in the end to become a software developer and it has turned out great. I still play concerts every once in a while.
Thank you for this post! Such sensible advice, and so daunting that they treat you most gifted artists so poorly. We need the arts and beautiful concerts so much. I am a pianist/teacher and enjoy performing locally and collaborating with friends in local concerts. We enjoy playing together and I have been fulfilled making music locally and teaching. I try to support the arts as much as possible so that people like yourself can continue to perform for the world. My best to you! I have subscribed to your channel and I look forward to more of your posts.
I feel we live in a world where the difficulty musicians face is vastly underestimated. You have better odds of becoming a professional athlete than a professional musician. And the latter is arguably a more strenuous pursuit by far.
Denis, keep going! You're a wonder and a treasure. What you have captured in this video is the conundrum in every artist's life - music! art. literature. and doubtless also similar passions in science and research. If only our society as a whole assigned a proper value to the arts.
True! But in his case, it’s his conscious choice to avoid big concert business. As far as I know he despises anything connected to promotion etc, and turned down Sony as soon as they asked him to email them his biography for a CD they wanted to make him record.
@@DenZhdanovPianistYou hit the nail right on the head with your reply to Luis Fernando Tapia. I was thinking to comment so I'll make it as quick as possible. I follow certain world-class musicians and am a very modest supporter of the arts. The one musician not a pianist, has a contract with Sony and though classically trained is writing music that appeals to younger people. Which means he has quite a following and has become very popular. Then there is the musician I follow most closely who is Juilliard educated and a world-class composer concert pianist. But as business-minded, a visionary, bold courageous creative and highly entrepreneurial: He has carved out his own niche on TH-cam. And just this year and last, completed his first world tour: planned managed and executed by himself and others he hired. I know he loves being his own boss which gives him the freedom to create his own music! He is extraordinarily passionate and writes and performs beautiful emotional music not just classical but remixes of all sorts and genres. His own compositions and also songs with deep moving and meaningful lyrics. And I have never heard anyone improvise the way this man does! All of which is to say: Following our own paths and passions regardless of what others think and regardless of monetary success and the accolades of this world, is the most fulfilling in the end. Thank you for the excellent video, I learned a lot! And I wish you the very best - as well as to all within your sphere of influence. 😊❤❤❤❤
Thank you, Denis, everything you say is true. The one thing you didn't mention was the jealousy, sabotage and hate we have to deal with from other competitive musicians, especial at the lower, semi professional levels. It turns a beautiful, inspired, music-making environment very toxic! I'm not ashamed to say that I never had the nerve or thick skin to be able to deal with this, and happily ran in the other direction 🤣 Keep up the brilliant work - I love your channel ❤🎼🎹🎵
Hello Denis, I studied piano at the Lemmensinstitute for two years before enrolling for engineering science and growing into a back-end developer with 3y of prof. experience. The switch from musician to engineer took 8 years and I played every day (or at least as much as possible) as an amateur pianist throughout that period. It's been amazing to work fully autonomously, playing whatever you want however you want whenever you want, full well knowing your paycheck rolls in every month & you have a good future that is independent from piano. The reality of sacrificing full-time music endeavours for part-time amateurism & money is that you will never have the time to learn 20 concerti. Your life will be a constant tug-of-war between piano 'real-life'. Your skills definitely continue to improve, albeit much slower. The biggest advantage of being an amateur is the artistic freedom you have. Modern classical music can create a state of spiritual/artistic constriction that often stunts the musical growth of a pianist in favor of 'technical' performance. When that happens, people often lose a sense of enjoyment or satisfaction from playing music. Building a life that unshackles your artistic side is IMO worth it if you are at a point that you can rely on just yourself to keep getting better. Maybe that perspective helps a bit.
Thank you for sharing these things. Classical piano is so beautiful and hard at the same time, and I think that with the same amount of effort in a non-music related field anyone could get a very good job. The amount of sacrifices pianists make are only paid emotionally.
I was on Trifonov's website recently and I was astonished at his concert schedule this season (and the huge range of repertoire he'll be playing). Now, Trifonov's career is something we all wish we were good enough to have, but I couldn't help but think - God, that's a lot of travelling and a lot of hotels. Not quite as glamorous as I would have hoped for. When you think about it, capitalism and the consumerism of classical music is driving an industrial level scale of concerts. And he's at the very top tier. What's it like for the smaller fish? I see some commenters here describing their experience and I tip my hat to all of you.
@@LisztyLiszt there's a story about Rachmaninoff being asked how he felt about playing in Kansas City, to which he replied that the hall seated 3000. Godowsky performed in Seattle around 1903. Can you imagine?!
@@DenZhdanovPianist You need to have a strong constitution and lots of stamina . Pletnev in recent years has performed all four Rachmaninoff concertos in a single concert. I doubt there are many pianists of any age who could do that.
Actually, I think quite many pianists can do this, and most concert pianists have at least two-three of the Rach concerti ready in the repertoire since teenage years. Learning another one-two and training oneself to play them in one evening is a time-consuming, but feasible task. But it’s very hard to get this kind of offer. One has to be a superstar, and there should be a very tough orchestra to agree to this.
Studied with Tanski at Mozarteum. First week he wanted a movement of Beethoven sonata memorized. I am happy to be able to call him an idiot always when i see him in Salzburg;) It is an opportunity not everyone has. The truly great were always kind and considerate to someones limits, not clueless toxic. Rouvier is a great teacher and handles you like an artist
I'm a screenwriter, and most of what you said applies to my profession too. And now I'm learning to play the piano... mmm I'm starting to see a pattern here.
@@Amatteus That's what Bill Evans said. If you play honestly and do your thing, you can build from there. If you try to imitate others, the foundations of your music will always be shaky.
Currently a hobby-pianist, former church organist and choir director, very part-time positions. Never had the ambition to pursue music vocationally. I picked up a minor degree in music in college to bolster my abilities at church. I once wondered out loud to my college organ teacher what the point of my studies was since I did not intend to pursue a career. He answered, " the world needs good amateurs, too." I appreciated his observation so much, and set myself on course to be the best amateur I could be. It has brought me in closer communion with some of history's greatest musical minds. What a privilege!
This is a fantastic video, thanks for making it. Some of this stuff is crazy, and should make us thank those of you who do go the distance all the more 🙏 I'll not be getting through that in my lifetime 😅
Денис, честно сказать, я еще больше захотел стать пианистом после этого видео) Какая-то магия меня манит в это дело, даже несмотря на все те минусы, о которых ты рассказал в видео
The highs are extremely high, and the disappointments can be devastating. I’ve seen students get destroyed by teachers with no sympathy. I’ve competed against some of the finest, and appeared before the most successful international artists. In the end, I chose to pursue full time music ministry, and still play here and there.
@@MishaSkripach I'm guessing he's talking about toxic teachers who constantly berate their students. Personal story time from me: when I was an undergrad I had a classmate who attended the affiliated high school of a prestigious conservatory located on the US East Coast. His focus was on the piano. Sadly he faced a very toxic learning environment where his teachers constantly tore him down. That scarred him mentally which led to issues in college.
@@lynncai587 More likely, he just got a long needed reality check, when soothing and misleading empty praise was replaced by normal professional criticism.
@@MishaSkripach there is a clear difference between constructive/normal professional criticism vs personal attacks and slander. My friend unfortunately got the latter.
@@lynncai587Standards are very different. Many times I saw gentle constructive criticism perceived by a delusional student at an insult. Now professors are just intructed to keep quiet and repeat "good, good..." and they check what nationality the student is - if it is an Italian, Spanish, Japanese, Russian - anything can be said and will be perceived as normal criticism. But English-speaker... oh no... they can play AWFULLY professors will just nod. As hopeless, people not prepared for the truth have no future in music.
I was a music major in the 70’s. I was never good enough to be a soloist, but did play part time in small orchestras for a number of years (I’m a violist). I am now 69 years old, I have not played a solo except at my church in nearly 40 years, and I still have the “recital dream”. In the dream, I have to play a graduating recital in 2 weeks, I have not met with my accompanist, and I have just started learning the hardest piece. The trauma is real, even decades later. The only way to minimize stage fright is to be extremely well prepared, even for the simple little pieces I play at church. Then I am only slightly nervous, and can do my best.
This video is a massive gift. A detailed portrait of the mechanics behind the career of a concert pianist, it provides a perspective that I did not have, yet makes perfect sense as it meshes that mythical life with the real life that underlies it. Zhdanov is not only talented, he's honest, and I really appreciate that.
Gatekeepers, a concept I knew before but now I know how to name it! Thank you for this honest video. Unfortunately the hours invested in practicing rarely can compensate whatever you are getting paid for a concert. I work as an accompanyst in violin so its a way of getting paid for doing some chamber music (when students are good) and acquiring repertoire for future possibilities. I think we all need to find our way around to keep doing music and be able to be financially stable
Thank you for a brutally honest assessment of how hard it is to become and remain a concert level pianist, very illuminating. It is amazing to me that so many people attempt to make it. These pianists have so many other opportunities given the discipline they learned to become a top performing pianist.
Oh my god, as a former dancer, now choreographer and currently studying to become an opera director I can relate to this so much in the stage departmenrt When you mentioned the nightmares of being unprepared for a show..... the competition, the mental side, the money....
They do not teach this in college! It is so easy to be crushed, especially now! There are so many predators out there, for that is what they are! Your realism is sadly, too necessary. Nt only have you been responsible enough to write this, you have enabled others here, to speak up! It is awful what greed can do! You have a living to earn.Agents have a fortune to make! i hope you have a blessed life!
Agents is a necessary part of the business. Although I darken the colors to raise awareness about challenging and not always ethical sides of the profession, emergence of people who mediate between artists and venues was evolutionary necessary.
@@DenZhdanovPianist Alas again, you are right! There is good and bad in everything! I cannot help thinking that it is a glamorous form of surfdom! I think that I am too cynical today! Take the best care :) and ThankYou for your kind response :)
When I studied with my piano teacher, a renowned concert pianist, he choked on his coffee when I told him I wanted to get a degree in performance. He immediately told me not to get into it and to do something else in the industry because the opportunities were so slim. Fast forward to when I went to college in Boston, the pianists at the major schools, for the most part, played the same pieces. We always joked that if we all played in a competition, it would be a toss-up as to who would win. Looking back, my teacher gave me the best advice I could imagine. I switched to composition ( which also is another major headache, but that is a conversation for another time), and am at the point now where I can create my own concerts and build a following on social media. The best part of all of this is, I can still perform in piano recitals. Just through my own show.
@@DenZhdanovPianist Not going to lie, I felt like crap at first lol, but once I went to college and graduated, I realized he was right and it was the best advice he could have given me. He still encourages all of his students not to seek a career as a concert pianist for the same exact reasons you mentioned in your video.
Wow. I've got a degree in performance. I think all that "profession-career-identity" thing is harmful. But I only have that degree LOL and I don't want more. If someone says "sour grapes" i'll answer that those kind of grapes can be found anywhere, we're all subject to be biased. But yes, I would nowadays choke on my coffee and say something more radical than your teacher. You had some luck in the paths.
Most important rule of life: Don't let your greatest passions depend on money ! I'm a pianist myself and chose a whole different career to make a living. Never regret a minute of that decision.
I work part time in IT and have plenty of free time for piano, family etc. I'm really glad not to have to struggle to make a living out of it. A good rule of thumb in life is, the more enjoyable something is, the more people are willing to do it for free (or nearly). Careers in arts, music or sports just involve a mixture of BIG luck, talent or just being born rich to make it work.
Denis, thank you for presenting this great subject, very touching. I had stage fright at an early age, 9, during a presentation of students, and I completely failed. Now, I am almost 79, love playing and learning a Bach Prelude or the Gigue from a Partita, as well as improvising, for hours, in all musical directions. Still, when people suddenly appear, I just as suddenly freeze up. Це життя. Enjoy your day.
Great video. Totally truth, even regarding modern music, specially composers. Our challenge is to build our own space, trying to envolve as minimum as possible agents, taxes, etc
1. I am not in the classical music business, simply a Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Schubert etc FANATIC! 2. As an outsider, I am aware of a HUGE UNTAPPED MARKET out there for the aforementioned composers and others. 3. The first thing to be done is to establish a THINK TANK for performers to review the issues and problems outlined in this video 4. This think tank or PERFORMERS' COUNCIL, would invite, receive and review submissions from the HUGE LISTENING AND CONSUMING PUBLIC out There, with their suggestions on GROWING THE MARKET. 5. Consideration could be given to forming an INTERNATIONAL PERFORMERS' UNION with SET RATES for performances. This should cut out the agents. 6. Eventually, finances permitting, consideration can be given to forming a FINANCIAL COOPERATIVE.
This video confirms what I have long suspected (obsessed with piano but not a musician) I have great empathy for so many great pianists that deserve so much but receive so little for their level of talent and hard work.
Thank you for the most insightful video - yours here - I have listened to in a very long time, hitherto having known nothing of the set up involved in creating a concert performance. I am a passionate lover of good music, and was taught the piano for about 8 years, but lacked the gift of mastery to perform faultlessly. Instead my forte is academic writing. I do know one promising and flowering concert pianist, Celestine Yoong, but that is another story. What I want to share with you is my reaction to your video. I have noticed for years that the repertoire for the listening public is narrow. It is only my experience at discovering the full range of composers whose works are available to listen to - courtesy of the internet (especially TH-cam) that the realisation has come like an avalanche in slow motion that only a select few composers are singled out for the performance of their works being constantly pushed and repeated: Chopin, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Beethoven, Mozart, Rachmaninoff,..... Yes, these are fully deserving of their elevation. But the cost of lionising them artificially is the ignoring and neglecting of many composers whose works are the equal of them, which has the effect of limiting what the public can come to learn and enjoy. I can quickly produce a long list of those who wrote concerti: Moszkowski, Hummel, Martinu, Martucci, Scriabin, Medtner, Lyapunov, Balakirev,.... to name but a few of the better known of this obscure fellowship. There are many names which are hardly known, if at all. I thank God for TH-cam for opening up so widely the knowledge of these composers. Your arguments make the reasons clear: it is your agents and other principle and pivotal figures in the field who are the ones producing this "Top Ten" situation, engendering the artificial public perception that the usual well-known composers are the only ones who have ever existed and whose works are worth listening to at the exclusion of the rest. These agents, etc., are the real powers in the field. If I now had the chance to become a performing artist, I would immediately turn down such a life for the reasons you state: the decisions made far above my head, who wield the power, the control, the money, etc. One thing is true, however, and you bring the point out well: that a concert pianist has a gift of genius from God is something to be recognised, but the astonishing thing is how many such artists are there in the field, all hopeful of fame and popularity. There are simply too many in the queue for the openings available. And here is also the negative side to it: the probable fighting and ruthless spirit of competition and clawing each other to get ahead in front of the crowd. I will end with a serious suggestion I once gave Celestine: in thinking about the hearty applause a performer enjoys at the end of the piece, I decided it is partly misplaced, since no one applauds the person who wrote the music. I seriously suggested to Celestine that instead of bowing to the audience at the end of her performance, that she herself clap heartily WITH the audience, because a large portrait of the composer would be on prominent display all through the music being played, and she would be facing and applauding that! No doubt such a switch of transferring credit from the performer to the composer would be a sensational event, one that no one could ever expect, but it would be a great change to make and an encouragement to humility on behalf of the performer. It would also remind people that the really superior artists are not only those who play what others have written but those who possess the ability to compose new music themselves (Celestine, being a child prodigy, is precisely such a person, from a young age). But alas, no doubt, people like your agents and producers would put a frosty cap on such a change, the first reason no doubt being the motivation bound up with what money they could make from it. I now see what little choices performing artists have in this whole scene; I had thought it was much more. I would never want any part of it.
This video is a great eye-opener. I too had aspirations of a career as a concert pianist ...But now I see how lucky I was that I got out in time and went into academia instead..🙏
My mom gave me the advice to not pursue a career as a concert pianist, at first I was angry and didn’t agree, but now I am thankful. I have found many joys in performing and most situations my prep/travel/logistics/performance time vs. pay lacked miserably. There were a few unicorns in which I was fairly compensated, but that was rare. Now music is a great side gig to my full time engineering career, and I think I like it better that way. I have found Agencies/Promoters/Entertainment execs. to be too demanding and treat me like I was nothing but a dollar sign when I was pursuing music full time, because they held the keys to the biggest shows. Now I have the freedom to choose and be my own boss in choosing where and when I would like to perform, and to be honest it’s way better! I am not downing on the concert pianist career, please pursue if it is for you. This just works for me to have a stable career but at the same time still getting to enjoy my music in a free way.
I started as a pianist, was fairly successful when I was young but I soon realized it was going to be hell. I switched to violin and got a position in a top orchestra. It's luxury, I can't fathom how anyone would sacrifice basically their whole life and happiness in order to be a concert pianist if it weren't for deep love for music. Each time top solo pianists come to play with us they look exhausted, by the way!
This is, of course, absolute reality; raises the notion that any type of musical career aspirations seems like as insane as some political campaigns in the US. You give deep dive detail on a big time reality, where aspiring musicians are most often in denial about the realities. The entire history of music is no different, anywhere, any period. As usual, you provide plenty of visual blips that are brilliant humorous comment. Bernstein and Argerich "preparing" for concerts. I have 50 years of quite high-level experience as a vocal performer after Uni academy style training. I made a few bucks in the beginning but then it became less worth the effort. Finally gave up such ambitions at 32 and decided to do what I could with my musical art. When I decided on a music major at about 19, I did so because it was the most fun, like by far, of what I had sampled on the college lazy smorgasbord. Per hour of unit for time and money, viz a viz, any other major, it wasn't worth it, like preparing 5 pieces for jury at term end, spending 15 hours/week,150 hours/term for 1 unit credit. Nevertheless, though my earnings from music have been miniscule, I have never for one moment regretted my decision. In the beginning I said, "Self, if I never make a dime out of this, it's still worth it." My dimes came form elsewhere. My piano wasn't good enough for college major but my voice was prodigious, very pleasing and my work ethic was way up there. I saw a little more talented people than me fall by the wayside after their ego was wounded early on. In my later seniority, I have been back at developing my lagging piano technique. I have the artistry to know what I want, and now the piano skills to solve most of my own challenges. I was also gaslighted by the teachers I had, not very helpful, though with glowing resumes from top music conservatories and the fees to match. They were making money out of the system, on my dime, without giving me much in the way of real guidance, any more than to make me feel better to come back and pay next week. Yeah, the system is a bitch; why would anyone pursue a concert career, develop that level of excellence and suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous musical fortune, in the face of such diminishing returns? Every one at every level is trying to extract money from every other level. It's called human greed, the infinity of which rules out an ideal world. Pasquale66 nailed it. Music is a personal passion, very often a guiding one. Speaks to the enduring nature of music itself. I am deeply read in the history of music; the impulse is probably close to sex as an attraction, which it can be itself. I studied singing with a retired former international star; she asked after some attempt to get me into my best singing pathway. I said, "this feels almost auto-erotic." She responded, "That's because it's exactly what it is." Enough said. I will close my Russian novel with a personal gripe: Those who feel so elevated as artists and people they feel the right and personal style obligation to condescend and attack others over what is obviously a matter of opinion and experience; not what is universally true, as they see it. Look at you, Lang Lang, Argerich, people having fun with their art and sharing what they know for the benefit of others. We feel it keenly, brother. People may be advanced, but not to the level of God unless you're running for US President or your own piano channel. I suspect those folks will ultimately fail no matter their level of skill, and ball busting style, due to lack of people skills. They reek of it and don't get it. It's the same in any human endeavor. I see music, in the main, as entertainment, after 50+ years of experence. So, lighten up, have fun with it. "If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong." My life motto. Denis is having fun. We are attracted to that. It is easy to identify, no matter the level of technical prowess or histrionics, folks whose main consideration is themselves, not the community advancement or even the glory of the muse itself. Three people died and went to heaven; Peter met them at the Pearly Gates for an admission check. He told each one they were to say how much money/year they made at their career, then state what they did. The first said, $200,000/year; I was an attorney. Next, $90,000; I was a real estate agent. The last guy said $16,000. Before he could say more, Peter asked, "Oh, yes. What instrument did you play?" I, early on demarcated music making from business. When you are dictated what to play, and how to play it, free wheeling artistry declines, because freedom of expression is restricted. If you have, thanks for listening; Denis, you'll get a lot of feedback here; comment invitations are another mark of you being a soccer playing kid mensch.
@@DenZhdanovPianist Thank you for the clear and sincere invitation. One last lick; when I was about 28 and my first wife, whose mother was my voice teacher/coach at my alma mater, after watching me strive and suffer some in the "classical" mode, suggested, very seriously, that I should get a guitar and learn the 3 required chords in a week or two, then get a country outfit, hat, string tie, boots; go on the circuit of agents, audition for Lawrence Welk, and all, make beaucoup bucks like Glenn Campbell and co. I had the chops for it, the looks, the slow steady deep voice, blond wavy hair. Ready sense of constant good humor. I would have succeeded if I could have got behind it which I couldn't. As I say, I made my dimes elsewhere, steady gigs which pay on time and provide benefits. Or I could starve myself and live out of a suitcase for drunken audiences. Hmmm. What to do? When fantasy subsides you step into the voting booth and vote for sanity and friends to Zelenski.
Basically, they only want the competition winners, however now you should look really good as well. A performance graduate from Julliard is not guaranteed a teaching position at a college. There are too many excellent piianists.
Вообще, очень классное видео! Я, если честно, не знал всю эту подноготную концертного пианиста)) Было очень интересно послушать. Как не было желания становиться концертным пианистом, так его и не появилось)
thanks denis- for some reason i thought that "legit" or classical musicians werent subjected to the "gig" economy but as you explain it, its clear that in this world there is always someone willing to work for "exposure". gee, thank you, brothers and sisters. the world will always be full of people who expect you to work for free.
Well Denis, I think you have an enormous talent and plenty of courage and generosity to put it out there for us all to enjoy. I'd like to say a big thank you to you and all the other talents in the business driven by a love of music and a need (and the courage) to communicate this talent despite the many obstacles. Lots of appreciation and admiration 👍
It’s is sad to see the state of the world today, I wonder who are this agencies, who is running them and what is their philosophy (probably just whatever maxes out on profit). You are right on the nail that having the most talent doesn’t equate to having success in the concert world, connection matter more. At the end of the day, this video reaffirms my believe that i do what I do because of love, because music is a gift from God. Anyway, great content, so much insight it provides, thank you!
This is probably the norm for the artists career , before agencies you had to study with prominent teachers in order to train you to have a successful career, companies rarely deal directly with the artists unless there isn't anybody else available and nowadays there are many capable players to cover for a last minute cancelation.
@@jadalmatamoros6368I think you’re right. There are many capable players nowadays and there isn’t much demand for classical music. You know, the law of supply and demand, there is a lot of supply and low demand. Thankfully, being a concert pianist isn’t the only means for making a living as a musician, and pianists can still mature their art all the while doing other things.
Great video on a topic that I admittedly do not know much about. I always wondered what makes a pianist successful. I look at Yulianna Avdeeva, winner of the 2010 International Chopin Competition, and wonder why her career does not seem to achieve the same success at Trifonov’s who placed below her in the same competition. Countless other examples. Ultimately it seems like the listeners decide who the big stars are, and all participants can hope for is capture the attention of enough listeners. Very ruthless industry!
Probably many reasons, foremost could be 1. It's harder to sell her than Daniil, who is somehow a more unique and charismatic performer, despite a peculiar result of that competition, which was a near-scandalous story at the time. 2. Her management may be not as influential 3. There might be other reasons I could be aware of, but it's more of a gossip nature from the Polish management sphere, so I shouldn't.
Some people like Yuja Wang, Lang Lang, and Martha Argerich are just a natural talent when it comes to performing on stage in public. These people enjoy doing the impossible and they make it look so easy.
Thanks for the honest and perfect video. The “gatekeepers” also built up a narrative and a culture which imposes the general population the fake idea that “they were the only most talented and hardworking artists that deserve to be music stars”. These gatekeepers are present in every industry and connected with certain interests groups you just cannot pass by being talented of hardworking. What we can do as listeners is understanding these facts and be demanding of having concerts with lesser known artists. No one can be as hardworking as studying for something very difficult only to use the knowledge for once. I too struggle with these difficulties in another industry and I think it is time for us to unite and oversmart these global interest groups. Because enough!
Also… I always wanted to be a concert pianist, but my father warned me that the environment would be harder than other industries to tackle with for a person who can not be financially supported. So I gave up and went to the college. It still breaks my heart to leave years of work behind. But now I know that father was right. RIP daddy 🩷 thank you 😊
Forgive what may be an ignorant question but--with all we see out of the entertainment industry" as a whole (e.g. Hollywood; rock, etc), when talking about the classical "gatekeepers" it makes one wonder if there isn't a deeper underbelly there? No "casting couches" by talent scouts/agents, parties, etc....this stuff is everywhere, so had to query about the behind scenes in classical. Good video!
You should only do music professionally if you cannot reasonably do something else. My father was a professional musician (still is part time) and it was the right choice for him. But I knew that I needed to do something different since the music route was not conducive to my life goals. And yet I still have time to play and perform locally, just on my own terms rather than on the terms dictated by needing to make ends meet
It makes sense. Music is subjective when you have great musicians performing at an elite level. Who’s to say that one interpretation is better than another????? Your career can skyrocket if your playing fits the audience and their preferences for your interpretations. Very insightful here.
This is all very interesting. I am an amateur musician and my main occupation is simutaneous Interpreter. We have the same problems in our career: reputation, promotion skills, agencies. Most agencies take 50% of our payment and more. We are dependent on our colleagues' recommendations and on business situation in the country and globally. Usually travel and accommodation costs are covered by our clients. I was totally unaware of all the subtleties of a concert pianist's career.
But even if you do make it as a concert pianist on the highest level there's another problem - it's akin to having a deal with the devil. Pretty sure that someone like Yuja Wang, who has a significant promotion machine behind her, which means a large monetary investment on their part, is contractually obliged to perform specific popular standard repertoire works and doesn't have complete freedom over her artistic career. Impresarios and publishing companies want to make money so they'll have their artists play Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky despite there being 200 recordings of these works available already. Same goes for the major orchestras. Imagine that the Berlin Philharmonic would do a Louis Spohr or Niels Gade or Franz Schmidt symphony cycle instead of Mahler or Beethoven. Not going to happen. It's the sub-top (for lack of a better term - they're still really good, generally speaking) like the Malmö Symphony Orchestra or the Slovak Radio Philharmonic that can get away with that. I have a large LP and CD collection and virtually all the less well-known repertoire I have is from smaller regional symphony orchestras and second tier (hate to say it, they're all top level musicians) soloists on budget labels like VoxBox, Brilliant Classics etc. or on major independent labels such as Hyperion and Naxos. Only rarely do major labels like Deutsche Grammophon venture outside of the standard repertoire. The only reason some performers have that freedom is because the repertoire that made them famous was non-standard to begin with, or because they can afford to as they can make ends meet with a professorship. Take one famous exception to the rule, Marc-André Hamelin, his late father was a high level amateur pianist who introduced him to Alkan and various other non-standard repertoire composers he specialised in from an early age. Most of the other major performers of lesser known repertoire are piano professors who specialise in their favourite niche composer. Joop Celis is famous for his York Bowen recordings, Arsentiy Kharitonov specialises in Leo Ornstein and plays lots of his own compositions, Jürg Hanselmann recorded 11 CDs with the complete piano music of Josef Rheinberger, Seta Tanyel specialises in Scharwenka, the late Michael Ponti recorded all kinds of obscure Romantic piano concertos and solo works, etc. They could never have done that if they were superstars with a marketing machine behind them. The effects of this are not just crap for the artists but also for concert audiences who might want to hear some more adventurous works being programmed but rarely get the chance to. As someone who is deeply attached to lesser known 19th century Romantic repertoire this bothers me.
It is a very sad reality; my dream as a child was to make a living giving concerts, but I realized early on that I didn’t even remotely have the kind of super-human technique technique required. So I chose a different career path, and if I hadn’t, I would have had to live in poverty. Only a minuscule percentage of people are serious listeners of classical music and would even be able to tell the difference between genuinely great artists like Argerich, de Larrocha, Schiff, Kissin, Perahia, etc and a faux talent like Lang Lang…I would include Yuga Wang, but at least she seems genuinely talented. Yet LL very likely out-earns all of them, and this has nothing to do with his true value as a serious musical artist (which is vastly over-inflated, IMO). I’ve attended concerts by the top level pianists mentioned above which were only sparsely attended, meaning it was very likely a financial disaster for the concert halls which engaged them. A friend of mine who is a very mediocre pianist (actually he’s pretty bad-of course I would never say it to him) performed in a master-class for a very good local pianist of some renown. And I thought to myself, why is such a fantastic musician bothering with such low level talent? (I admit how terrible it sounds for me to say it)… My friend wisely chose not to pursue music and is a very successful attorney. There are many more things one could say about this subject, but the sad reality is that, outside certain cities in which there is a thriving demand for it, classical music is essentially dead.
I live in a certain city in Asia and here if you are a professional musician with decent teaching experiences and good network, you can accumulate a monthly salary to up to around 10K USD being a freelancer. Being a pianist though is a whole different story since your career is more limited to accompanying or teaching at private studios.
My mum was right - based on this video she wouldn’t have been able to support me until I make money from playing piano as we have no contacts and I have stage fright. If this video existed 15 yrs ago I wouldn’t have had depressive crying episodes about listening to her not pursuing studies at music conservatory for classical piano back then. Thanks for explaining so clearly the realities.
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Hearing these tales of poorly compensated pianists helps me put an experience I had many years ago into perspective. I had agreed to play a recital program gratis for a private event. After the event, the organizer rushed out to tell me as I was leaving how wonderful the recital was and handed me an envelope. It contained $10. I didn't mind playing for free, but to be offered such a pittance in recognition of all that had gone into that performance deeply insulted me.
Wow that’s an “amazing” story, I am sorry for you!😅
Had a similar story from a performance last summer. I would have played for free but instead they gave a minimal "symbolic" fee which was even taxed 30% in the end.. for some reason this was more upsetting than playing for free
Where do you live?
Damn, $10 😅
Reminded me of the movie Donnie Brasco
I'm 44yo and have had a career behind me in classical piano playing. Played Gaspard (complete) for my senior recital, so I know I'm at least a decent player. But the solo life did not appeal to me, I had too many other interests. I've been writing music since I was a child and have a degree in composition as well. I'm an excellent sight-reader and made a career by accompanying (instrumental and vocal), and pursued chamber music and getting jobs as staff accompanist at universities. I've always been overworked and underpaid, everywhere I've worked. Tried transitioning to faculty teaching, but everybody pigeonholed me as an "accompanist" and no one gave me a chance. Too much politics. But I am a good teacher, I know it from other successes (just not financial ones). All that to say I commiserate with you Denis. Currently, I'm a well-kept secret in my area (Los Angeles): a great player with musicality and skill, chamber musician, and teacher/composer who nobody's heard of because I've never been able to afford and agent or win any major competitions (that's by my choice though, I've always hated competing). Currently, I do a lot of "community" playing and teaching, more as a hobby, while looking for a different career now.
I know how it feels…😭
Do you do online classes
The REAL money for you will be in education. Develop courses concerning specific pieces of music. Learn about and maximize usage of tech to make distances disappear. Charge WHATEVER you want. It takes 5 years to build a 6 figure, well-behaved "stable". Join with other ambitious, like minded educators in LA and form coops, like lawyers do.
Yes that’s exactly my approach for now. It really works (for now, I don’t exclude times will change and we will have to adapt again)
Yes I agree ! Music education, especially classical music , will be not only financially stable but also contributing brain development and psycho- social benefits to this world ! What you are contributing on your channel is far more impactful than Yuja wang master class !( not all world renown pianists know how to teach 😢) thanks for sharing this great topic ❤❤
I read a stat several year ago that stated that there are only about 200 pianists in the world who make a living primarily from concertizing. This number has been stable for several decades, at least since the 1980s. the reality, according to the report, was that the only real way to break into that 200 is for a person to leave it. The reason is that there are just so many good paying concert gigs in the entire world.
This is why it drives me nuts when I see philanthropists saying we need to do more to promote "new talent." No we don't! There is more than enough new talent coming out of schools -- too many, in fact, for those who are seeking to make a living out of this. And we certainly don't need any more competitions. What we DO need are more opportunities for pianists and other soloists to perform and get paid something decent. And the only way to do that is to build support for live classical music -- more orchestras, more programing, and more audiences.
True…
How can I upvote this comment more? I was aware of it already but not decades ago when I naively went to music school because I had been a natural at the piano from a very young age (initially by ear). Despite all the subsequent difficulties in life, I don't think I would trade it because of the degree to which music is a part of me, but my expectations were ultimately so far out of line with reality that over time and a few career changes it has helped contribute to extraordinary life-altering burnout.
@@asimplenameichose151 Thank you for your comment. We need more opportunities for people to perform, live and paid (or maybe on TH-cam!). But creating these opportunities is not easy or cheap. It's a lot more fun and easy for a rich person or institution to put their name on a competition or some program that "assists" young performers. The problem with these programs is that they run up to the Rule of 200. So if you assist anyone and actually get them into the 200, you are merely denying that opportunity to another person. It's a zero sum game. If we could expand that number from 200 to 220, that would make a big difference.
IMO there is a certain 'snobbery' we went to an Opera and the concert attendees were uppity, then we went to a punk concert and everyone was so nice and welcoming
Same with archaeology. Few and poorly paid jobs. More people graduating every year.
This is one of the best classical music career videos I've seen to date. Thank you for the open and honest discussion about the true nature of the industry. I was a professional pianist, got my DMA in piano performance, won many significant piano competitions, and played in many major venues; however, at the end of the day, the career opportunities didn't allow me to see a future where I could support a family and live a somewhat normal life. I switched careers after my DMA into computer programming and am now financially very stable (more money than I could have dreamed of when working as a musician) and am still very fulfilled. The difference in stress and anxiety in making the switch to a career where money isn't a constant struggle was night and day. I play for myself when I have time, and I'll hopefully soon get back to playing with other musicians, which is ultimately what I truly enjoyed about music. You don't have to be a professional musician to still be an artist, and you can still fulfill your musical aspirations even if you do something else full time.
For me its similar. I am right now pursuing a Bachelor of Music in Piano Performance in a decent university in germany but all the stress, the competition, the terrible future regarding money is really something to be afraid of.
I am also thinking, because I love music so much, to try and study conducting to maybe become a conductor and get a better income at an opera house instead of being a freelancer.
But I am also seriously thinking about quitting music since I do have a lot of other interests as well.
How hard was it for you to do something completely different from music? And dont you miss practicing and performing?
I was a music major in the early 70s. I got a low draft number so I joined the Army as a bandsman. It got me the GI Bill. On getting out of the Army I met a girl I wanted to marry. Even then it was obvious that making money in music was at best a remote possibility. So I became a lawyer. I did very well. Now that I am retired, I play piano 4 hours a day -- just for me, my wife and cats. Very fulfilling!!!
Former computer programmer here (mid ‘80’s). I left to have kids (and a few other careers) and am now retired and learning piano.
As a hobby pianist, thanks for confirming my decision to keep it that way. I love to play, and I love to play for other people, but the level of passion and drive that's required to succeed in this craft is beyond where I am looking to take my play. This understanding, however, does increase my appreciation for those that do pursue this career.
Same here. I only want to ever improve and play a couple performances a year for friends/family, maybe a bigger thing every now and then. But this as a career.. Can really kick the passion out of you.
I totally agree and making music videos in my early retirement years now gives me great joy and satisfaction regardless of the number of views I get!! Yes, those that have the fire, in their butt, as they say, I have a huge respect for!!!
There's not much more to say. Music is a passion, and as such, it doesn't mix well with financial gain. Countless hours of studying to then earn little or nothing, unlike other professions.
I believe that economically it's a failed investment. But you can't reason only in economic terms. For some people, they can't live without playing music. I think good musicians should be better protected by governments and laws, by subsidizing culture more. A long-term investment to improve society as well. Unfortunately, music is considered a consumer good and not an art, and it is treated as such, with private individuals benefiting.
You're doing a great job on TH-cam and the results will show. We are millions of piano fans and quality content will be appreciated. I consider you an excellent teacher and I'm learning so much from you, even though I only play for pure passion and have another job. But I'm glad I met you. Greetings from Italy. (translated by Gemini)
This problem kinda exists in all genres - as a musician your biggest competitors often are the ones who can afford to work for free or for cheap, because they have rich parents or a lucrative career somewhere else. They are just as good as you, but they can afford treating music as a hobby - which means that they can do it for free when they feel like it.
If you want to make your living off of performing music, this puts you at a disadvantage, because, well, to the concert organizer the one who is willing to do it for less money is obviously the better deal, and also - because the one who can afford not to perform actually has more bargaining power. Their livelihood will not suffer, when they decline a bad gig. Yours will.
This is so sad and unfair when you see these talented hardworking classical musicianca underpaid while those pop stars earning millions ....😢
@@VegaJing-zn1cx The answer is very simple .Pop stars earn so much money for 3 reasons :
1) They play contemporary music
2) They have an excellent management and many fans and admirers ( not only of their music, of course )
3) Last not least : they are really good in what they are doing
Lang lang, Yuja Wang ( and many others before ) had to become a sort of pop stars to get to the top .
@@paulmeisel339 "really good in what they are doing" ... but a key element of this third reason is that usually "what they are doing" is not primarily music, though it is (often) performative / showbusiness. It is ultimately the sale of an image, of a brand. Classical musicians like those you mentioned have appropriated the trappings and (to some extent) the marketing involved in modern celebrity mechanics - the 'star-maker machinery' - to stay 'noticed' or continue to appear relevant.
This is the bit that usually frustrates dedicated trained musicians (for whom the Venn diagram overlaps very little with successful pop stars). The massive disconnect between what they and the broader public associate with 'music', its history, its relevance, and its meaning.
Music is not a passion. That people get passionate about the issue is another thing.
I went to music conservatory and received a solo diploma when I was young . After that I went to Medical School and I graduated becoming a MD. Many years later I passed the residency and I became a qualified general surgeon.
There were pieces I have never touched before and I had a break of ten years. Even not owning or having a piano.
Now I'm 58 even able to play the Goldberg variations after I solved my Glenn Gould trauma. I play Petrouchka by Stravinsky or the Paganini variations by Brahms, because there's no more pressure to make a living out of it. Usually I spent almost 2 hrs on piano to practice and that seem's to bee enough. It looks like I'm the one who becomes better the older I am.
When I was a young dude, I practiced sometimes like 6 or 8 hrs a day and that was counter productive and stupid.
There's only one important issue where I have never ever changed my mind: I deny competitions because I don't belive that music is like sports.
More important is to read novels, fairy tales, poetry, politics, history and listen to different music as much as possible. I enjoy listening to hard rock, punk like I enjoy listening to pop, jazz, blues or whatever.
Anyways it's important to learn to perform and to play without sheets. So I went to jazz conservatory after being graduated as a so called "classical musician" and that's a big benefit . It helps to understand the architecture of sound, voicing and melodies and it's you who does it.
Lifelong I'm listening and studying the mass in b- minor and the St. Matthew Passion by Johann Sebastian Bach because I belive that this genius works contains all important aspects of music like how to perform a melody. How to play polyphonic . How to train your ears to listen and to follow different voices at the very same time...Life is a great and big gift and too short.
Of course: that does not reach out to make a living out of it but I enjoy every minute Ion my piano. It's hard to study Gaspard de la nuit for one concert and than get paid like 9 USD per hour...That's not my goal.
If I would not smoke since 40 years, I would appreciate to sing in a choir. What a lot of so called "pianists" do not realize is that a human voice is our natural instrument and it's not about to avoid "wrong notes" or to play as fast and sterile as possible....
Anyway great tune! Thank you for this interview. I don't know this musician but he's right! Appreciate this!
Very intriguing thumbnail bio, thanks! (Some musical humor: "Triangle Concerto, anybody?")
From my experience in this industry while growing up in my teens (having participated in and won in up to international-level competitions), it is fundamentally built on nepotism and networking. Now, you might say that I must have taken advantage of that. No, not directly, but my piano teachers did because they were well-established in the industry. They saw my exceptional talent and worked very hard to promote me, for mutual benefit. This is one of the reasons I didn't pursue music in university or professionally, because my values don't align. Also, at the core, a significant portion of people who are non-musicians naïvely believe that all interpretation is good, but no, the real truth is all effective interpretations are good, hence why one needs to go to a school like Julliard or get a good teacher in the first place. However, very few can actually judge this with accuracy and even less with authority. This is a fundamental exploit that jury and well-established musicians use to get what they want with the people they want.
So, is there a way to get around this? Yes, for me, because I participate in a different industry and don't need to please those in power in the music industry to play what I want without stress and expectations of producing popular overdone repertoire. I can also post it all on TH-cam so I don't need agents to get attention. That is what every musician ultimately wants.
So, is there a way for professional musicians to get around this entire situation? Sort of yes, but it's two-fold. First is inspiration, which means inspiring an audience to treasure what you produce either implicitly or explicitly, through education or emotional evocation. But, please for the love of God, don't make brainrot and sensationalist content as you are just ultimately contributing to the degradation of society and the trivialization of your discipline. Second is actually producing it, unique in interpretation, but obviously if everyone does this than you no longer stand out. That's partly why I play relatively obscure repertoire that is simply underappreciated and underpromoted, but not lacking in value (actually, sometimes exceeding in value than conventional repertoire). To do so means you are helping undermine the nepotism that exists in this industry because they thrive on consumer trends and want the same people doing the same repertoire over and over, quite mindlessly.
The other way is to do what I'm doing, which is have a main career other than music and do music as a hobby. You can be no less competent at music performance than anyone else by taking this approach, but it takes talent and intelligence to pull it off on your own. In both ways, you can establish an audience and be your own agent, and if you're able to convince people of your competence, then you can setup your own concerts with packed audiences without chipping away your revenue with a pathetically exploitative agent.
Hope this helps any musician who reads this.
If this post was a poker hand, it would be a straight flush.
I found your comment quite interesting to read. But there’s one part I don’t understand.
What do you mean by "The real truth is all effective interpretations are good"?? Could you pls explain it?
This was very well said!
@Musicforever60 I don't have the little note in your handle but maybe you will see this anyway.
Loved your in-depth insights and comments! Obviously you draw from a deep well of experience. I liked your conclusions very much.
Much can be said about not just creativity and perseverance:
But business sense and entrepreneurialism.
Doing what we love is fuel to our passion and money is certainly not the only reward. I see it simply as a means to an end and not as the primary motivator at all.
Art and beauty for the sake of art and beauty are fulfilling not just for their creators but for posterity.
How many of the classical composers were not appreciated in their own lifetimes?
We march to the beat of a different drummer.
We follow our own call.
And in my understanding, success and reward are not measured only in this life.
❤❤❤
@@MarxistischerMillionaerI think what was meant basically is that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
Each artist can/will interpret slightly differently if they follow their own creativity and vision as well as passion.
Which means an authentic interpretation though not precisely note for note what someone else would play can still be considered excellent.
I'm certain you've heard the Beethoven quote about not playing with passion being inexcusable.
And a wrong note is excusable.
Which quote sums up exactly what I believe.
I played Beethoven's 5th concerto when I was in college. The fact that you played the Brahms' 2nd says something about your skill level - much higher than mine. It was nice to hear your honest perspective and the reality of the situation. I was never good enough to get into that market and, from your description, it appears best that I wasn't the caliber to enter into it.
As a kid, I aspired to be the next Beethoven as a composer and/or concert pianist. Nerves got in the BIG time and I couldn't give a flawless performance. Secondly, I never developed my technique early enough to even compete on that level. My piano professor, bless his heart, never sat me down to give me the reality of my skill. He recommended going into education as that, in his words, was the most profitable to make money in music and still compose. My composition professor while working on my MA burned the bridge with me writing music when, in his words, I "refused to conform to the system." I pretty much lost that inspiration to compose at age 32, Thirty-three years into education and I can confirm that my piano professor was correct; however, it is not want I wanted to do with my life.
The problem with making a career in music (I could give an hour lecture on this after years in education and performing on the road) is that it isn't a necessity for life. People have to eat, people have to shelter and people must have employment to earn the things they need and want. Music is a commodity to be bought and sold and with it come standards; however, the average Joe Public could care less about standards because music is art and they don't need it to survive or for their job. Unless a person took band, choir, orchestra into high school, they have no appreciation for quality compositional writing or the hours it takes to be an exceptional performer. None. The labels know this and they will push what makes them money. This is why so many rock musicians, that can't read a wit of music and only know a handful of chords, make millions of dollars and the concert pianist, who spent (you listed the hours involved) makes pennies on the dollar.
I have no regrets having taken fourteen years of piano lessons. I can pretty much play a Henle level 7 piece with a little bit of practice and perform it. Having studied Bach and Dohnanyi excercises, I have the finger independence to bring out the alto line over the soprano for my singers, as well as play the accompaniment with my left hand. I also learned to play by ear, which makes it quite beneficial if I need to improvise something, like church hymns. I wish the C/W group that I was with in the late 1990s had made it to the B circuit as we were on the same circuit as the Dixie Chicks the year before I joined them on keys. That wasn't meant to be and I am still teaching junior high kids, hoping to give them a lifetime skill and the joy of music.
Sorry to be long-winded. I appreciate your video. Thanks a lot.
@jimkelseymusiccjh I loved your comments, thank you for sharing!! ❤❤❤
@@jimkelseymusiccjh So you became wise in the end , most people never get so far in their lives.
You seem to be a really good musician , maybe you could publish your own compositions ( in case you're liking them 😉 ). There's quite a few of piano composers , which wrote a lot of very nice pieces in the last 50 years . My pupils often started real playing with f.e. " La mattina " or "Primavera" from Ludovico Einaudi . At first I didn't like him at all , but the kids did - and some of the older people too .
We're living in the 21. century , of course not everything is " better " than before : it's just different !
People should not be sorry for being long winded.
Kudos to the viewers, who have left some of the most informed and well-written comments you'll see anywhere on this website.
Very interesting post! I began formal piano lessons at age 5, and ended up with a performance diploma from a respected conservatory. Along the way I also developed the ability to play 'by ear' and spent decades in 'rock n roll' and night club bands, making a decent living. As a retired lawyer, I now play a monthly (paid) church gig. I have great respect for the diligence and effort it takes to become a concert pianist. However, after reading Denis' account the phrase that comes to mind is "be careful what you wish for".
Yes, this must be an inner "calling" not less.
I can totally relate to your video. Thank you for bringing up this topic !! There are also other aspects you didn't mention: the cost of buying and maintening an decent instrument, finding a flat that can accomodate such an instrument. I'm not even talking about the problems one can face if your neighbours don't tolerate you practicing music... the list is endless. You need big money in the first place, talent, perseverance, social skills, chance, a strong charachter, dedication and so on.... Please talk about the mafia behaviours at work in competitions. It's about time this should be revealed and destroyed. Sorry for my English.
The trouble is times have changed so much that the biggest earners in music performance are not concert pianists who have to train 10 hours a day to learn the most difficult repertoire, but TH-camrs or tiktokers who only have to learn interstellar and earn huge amounts of revenue for very little effort or work. Amateurs who have only learnt piano for a few years go live and earn thousands in gifts or from TH-cam earnings and are light years apart from a trained concert pianist. The concert pianists are learning music that’s too discreet to be noticed by algorithms and too unpopular, hard work is not rewarded in today’s world. The mass audience don’t appreciate Bartoks piano concerto or liszts spanish fantasy, they want and pay for interstellar or meme songs that are popular, I don’t know that being a concert pianist in the traditional sense is any longer a viable job or something to aim for, it’s too competitive and reaps little reward for such a hard challenging life.
Why can’t concert pianists do both? If what you say is true, a smart business savvy musician who is skilled could easily learn the so called meme pieces and probably play them much better and more elaborately. It’s more that their own egos won’t let them capitalize on music they deem less worthy. It’s silly, from a pragmatic stand point.
I've been successful in social media. I work 365 days a year, mostly 12+ hours per day. And I really mean 365 days a year. But its the same with everything. You cannot take the most refined and complex form of anything and try to get the 99% to appreciate it. Success in any business is about not making it about you, but about the things people need and desire. Most people are at level 0, looking to get to level 1. Only 0.0001% are ready for the Transcendental Etudes.
@@RandomButBeautiful I disagree with one thing you said. I think more people appreciate the refined and elegant than you know. People could definitely tell teh difference between say an amateur playing moonlight sonata vs a pro (moonlight sonata being a toe in the water piece for people new to classical, for example).
That's because we need more musicians that do for music what science communicators do for science. Like Jaime Altozano or Rick Beato.
@@avecus 🎯
If you ever get an offer to perform in Tenerife, you are cordially invited to stay in our place! We are at a walking distance from the concert hall. I mean it! 😊
I have performed the Chopin 2nd Concerto in Auditorium of Tenerife in 2012, it was an amazing trip!
I don't play a note, but if Denis can't make it to Tennerifa, I volunteer.
@@DenZhdanovPianist I wasn't there yet, but I hope you come again!
I loved your video. That's why I run my own festivals and projects for more than a decade now. I fundraise, develop, manage and play and my financial situation is so much better than friends who have agents. My artistic diginity is also intact. A couple of years ago I started mentoing musicians who want to jumpstart or furhter their careers through entrepreneurship. My new YT channel on the subject will be launched after my third festival this year in Brazil. Thank you so much for speaking up the truthe with all the details.
Amazing! I wish you much luck with your own projects!
What will be the name of this TH-cam channel so we may look for it? Thank you!
@@simoneleitaoofficial4031 We need more people like you.
What an awesome video Denis. Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us all. I never realised how much adversity concert pianists face outside of the music itself! We all fantasise about being concert pianists sometimes so it's good to know the reality of it. Many future musicians will benefit from this video.
the more spiritual the undertaking, the less the pay in money, yet the more in currency of the spirit (profound meaning).
I admire your strategy of carving your own way. The gatekeeping is really dehumanizing, and keeps the unique artists out, lets the similar sounding more "safe" ones in.
Classical music looses appeal, when we keep hearing "correct" interpretations of long ago dead composers.
I really think so many artists with a special own touch are not known because of gatekeepers.
I don’t feel it that way. Interpretations of many quickly rising modern stars destroy all the boundaries taught in schools, pushing everything to extreme. Quick examples are ecstatic self-burning Trifonov, “clowny” Lang Lang, or a wild cat-woman Yuja Wang, or overly sensual and melodramatic Khatia. Any of them would be treated as freaks for the way they play and self-present in the 20th century. Nowadays more than ever artists don’t give a f about traditions and “good taste”, experimenting wildly in order not to be forgettable. It’s a very exciting time to live in.
@@DenZhdanovPianist I think those modern musicians help classical music to reach more people by breaking the elitist and traditional representation of the style.
To me it's going back to the roots where concerts were just entertainment and not a religious mass.
@@vonk5463 good point!
Ppp😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
I am grateful for all Denis's insights, musical & verbal & interested tho sorry to hear my impressions fm hosting prof musicians confirmed. I wish to add that my audience members are also often q unaware of how brilliant & innovative new generations of musicians are, not conforming at all to the same old same old definitive interpretations. The industry is a v tough one & there are more supplies of gifted musicians than audiences to support them. Good luck to you all 🌹
⭐️Well done! ⭐️ This video should be shown to every prospective pianist or soloist who is wishing to major in music PRIOR to enrollment. In academia none of this is ever discussed before, during, or after. We all have to find out the hard way - the cruel, brutal, hard way haha. Back in the last century, I was fortunate enough to have studied with some very great famous teachers and, like most pianists, struggled to make a career. So I left NYC and returned back home to Arizona. At one of my local performances an agent for Columbia Artists happened to be in the audience and to my incredible shock and excitement, came back stage and offered me a contract to play a series of concerts in the southwest US with the promise of branching out from there. What started out as an apparent dream come true turned out to be the proverbial nightmare ha. I had a full time nonmusical job at the time and had to struggle to juggle that with preparing a difficult program, travel, bad pianos, lack of or no rehearsal time, annoying people at the venue,etc. Long story short, it only lasted a season and I ended up getting fired from my day job because I took too much time off to prepare for a particular concert lol I even self promoted for awhile with some surprising success, but it just wasn’t in the cards for me. The good news is, like you, I’ve learned tons of unbelievably great music throughout my life with a seemingly unlimited amount of repertoire on the agenda. Sadly I’ll die before I get to it all. I know it sounds corny, but music has been my best, most loyal friend and a dependably effective form of therapy. I would’ve ended it long ago without it in my life. And no one can take that away from me so I feel very fortunate! 🍀 🎹
Great, dramatic story! Thanks for sharing!
Incredibly inspirational video! This resonates not only with pianists but with all musicians. Carving out your own path in the music world is challenging but so rewarding. I love running multiple music schools to support myself, but there’s nothing quite like the thrill of amazing performance opportunities. Most people don’t realize how many hours go into perfecting a single performance. Sometimes all that practice shines through, and sometimes it doesn’t-just part of the journey. Thank you for sharing this! ❤
I am British, but have lived in Spain for 27 years. I never thought of myself as a pianist, because I have always played several instruments, I loved singing in choirs and reading about music. I studied music at Oxford and then got a degree in piano from a conservatory in Spain.
I passed the competitive state exams, known as oposiciones, to become a piano teacher in a national music conservatory, where I have been teaching for 25 years. I also play the organ in the local cathedral (for which I hardly get paid at all). The job stability of working in a national conservatory has allowed me to enjoy music and have a comfortable life, unlike most professional musicians.
I sometimes feel sorry for young pianists who study so many hours for so many years, and end up with nothing to show for it economically. Sadly, these days, live music is not properly appreciated. People are not willing to pay to hear competent classical musicians, if they are not world class and/or famous. Technology is to blame for that, but as mentioned here, perhaps technology is also the solution.
The issue is just the large supply of willing pianists. Because of the intrinsic appeal of a life of music, there will always be many people willing to pursue a career in it, even if every other aspect of the career is terrible. And in such a situation, there will always be people to take advantage of you. All the inequities follow from the excess supply.
The situation is quite similar in academia, where there is also a far larger supply than demand for faculty positions and for similar reasons: the intrinsic appeal of the life of the mind. However, I think the appeal is less strong and the demand is higher, so the effect is correspondingly less pronounced. Even adjunct professors in the US don't work as hard for as little money and are as overqualified as concert pianists working for a few bucks an hour.
When I was young, aged about 9 years old, I realised that I did not have the perseverance to become a concert pianist. I was also from a poor background and I did not have parents who would carry me if I had no income either.
And looking at this video I'm so glad I didn't bother. I have made many mistakes and wrong turns in life and am full of regrets, but I'm so glad I didn't try the concert pianist route. It would have led to even more misery. I still play every day and have been successful in a different sphere.
I am shocked, truly shocked. Our beloved Pianists who give us their talent to comfort our souls in this noisy world ! 🌷🌷🌷 (Netherlands)
Thanks for making this video and speaking so truthfully! I'm a pianist living in NY, so I know how competitive it is. In the U.S., many of us (and other instrumentalists as well) realize we can't all become the next rising stars, so we learned to wear many hats as private teachers, collaborative pianists, church musicians, orchestral musicians, directors, entrepreneurs, etc. If you have a doctoral degree and are lucky enough to get a college teaching position, maybe a music professor somewhere. All are perhaps more financially stable paths than simply being a concert pianist, but it's equally competitive and there are many downsides too, as so many institutions are cutting funding in arts. Young people definitely need to know these "dark sides" to better prepare themselves for the future.
Thanks for contributing! Honestly, I’m so glad not to live in NY😅😅😅
@DenZhdanovPianist It has its pros and cons:)
Agreed 100%. Great video!
When I was studying and preparing for piano competitions back in 2008, I had an entourage who believed I could make a career. But I got out into the world and quickly understood there were literally thousands of pianists who were even better than me. I understood that at best, I could make it to the B-league of pianists who can almost make a living out of it, but only if I would put in the effort to be liked by influential people. I have an innate disgust for status, nepotism and "networking", so I quickly realized I wasn't made for the life of a pianist career.
Now I play concerts when I want to, about one a year. I get paid peanuts and with the satisfaction of completing a project. I also pay with a choir and don't have to be at peak performance all the time. I also own a farm and grow and sell vegetables. This is also an economic disaster. I teach two days a week and get just enough income from that. I'm poor by my own choosing and proud of it.
I gave myself the advice in this video 16 years ago and I hope the right people today get to hear this message at the right time!
I might add that it was after a masterclass with Virsaladze that I understood I'd better not pursue a career. Some of the other students were more accomplished, more talented and more driven. She was kind to me but I could tell from her body language that she thought I wasn't made for the career life and she was right.
She is tough indeed and one should be prepared for a severe and terrifying treatment. However, unlike many other great teachers, she never humiliated students (on my memory).
Also, I think she is getting much kinder with age))) you probably got to her too early... ;(
So the classical establishment is "fixed" in favour of agents. Most pianists trying to break in to the established "classical" world will be paid so little for performing (if they get any performances at all) that when practice time, travel etc. are figured in the income is less than the minimum wage. This is possible because there is a massive oversupply of excellent pianists and the conservatoires and colleges are churning out dozens more every year.
As a former clasaical musician playing an orchestral instrument, I can say that everything you say is so true! I won several auditions at very good orchestras but that’s not enough to land a job. You also need the right contacts. I love music but decided in the end to become a software developer and it has turned out great. I still play concerts every once in a while.
Thank you for this post! Such sensible advice, and so daunting that they treat you most gifted artists so poorly. We need the arts and beautiful concerts so much. I am a pianist/teacher and enjoy performing locally and collaborating with friends in local concerts. We enjoy playing together and I have been fulfilled making music locally and teaching. I try to support the arts as much as possible so that people like yourself can continue to perform for the world. My best to you! I have subscribed to your channel and I look forward to more of your posts.
Amazing and eye-opening video. Thank you!
I feel we live in a world where the difficulty musicians face is vastly underestimated. You have better odds of becoming a professional athlete than a professional musician. And the latter is arguably a more strenuous pursuit by far.
Denis, keep going! You're a wonder and a treasure.
What you have captured in this video is the conundrum in every artist's life - music! art. literature. and doubtless also similar passions in science and research. If only our society as a whole assigned a proper value to the arts.
Thank you!!!
Chapeau for including Claudio Martínez Mehner into thr top unknown pianists. He's one of the best pianists I've heard in my life.
True! But in his case, it’s his conscious choice to avoid big concert business. As far as I know he despises anything connected to promotion etc, and turned down Sony as soon as they asked him to email them his biography for a CD they wanted to make him record.
@@DenZhdanovPianistYou hit the nail right on the head with your reply to Luis Fernando Tapia. I was thinking to comment so I'll make it as quick as possible.
I follow certain world-class musicians and am a very modest supporter of the arts.
The one musician not a pianist, has a contract with Sony and though classically trained is writing music that appeals to younger people. Which means he has quite a following and has become very popular.
Then there is the musician I follow most closely who is Juilliard educated and a world-class composer concert pianist.
But as business-minded, a visionary, bold courageous creative and highly entrepreneurial:
He has carved out his own niche on TH-cam. And just this year and last, completed his first world tour: planned managed and executed by himself and others he hired.
I know he loves being his own boss which gives him the freedom to create his own music! He is extraordinarily passionate and writes and performs beautiful emotional music not just classical but remixes of all sorts and genres. His own compositions and also songs with deep moving and meaningful lyrics.
And I have never heard anyone improvise the way this man does!
All of which is to say:
Following our own paths and passions regardless of what others think and regardless of monetary success and the accolades of this world, is the most fulfilling in the end.
Thank you for the excellent video, I learned a lot!
And I wish you the very best - as well as to all within your sphere of influence.
😊❤❤❤❤
This is why I only play my Bosendorfer 290 for myself in my own home. No pressure and always a joy.
Thank you, Denis, everything you say is true. The one thing you didn't mention was the jealousy, sabotage and hate we have to deal with from other competitive musicians, especial at the lower, semi professional levels. It turns a beautiful, inspired, music-making environment very toxic! I'm not ashamed to say that I never had the nerve or thick skin to be able to deal with this, and happily ran in the other direction 🤣 Keep up the brilliant work - I love your channel ❤🎼🎹🎵
had that too I know,dam aweful
I never thought it would be any different. I am sure it is very similar to high-flying sportsmen and women, actors, artists, writers, and so on.
Hello Denis, I studied piano at the Lemmensinstitute for two years before enrolling for engineering science and growing into a back-end developer with 3y of prof. experience. The switch from musician to engineer took 8 years and I played every day (or at least as much as possible) as an amateur pianist throughout that period. It's been amazing to work fully autonomously, playing whatever you want however you want whenever you want, full well knowing your paycheck rolls in every month & you have a good future that is independent from piano.
The reality of sacrificing full-time music endeavours for part-time amateurism & money is that you will never have the time to learn 20 concerti. Your life will be a constant tug-of-war between piano 'real-life'. Your skills definitely continue to improve, albeit much slower.
The biggest advantage of being an amateur is the artistic freedom you have. Modern classical music can create a state of spiritual/artistic constriction that often stunts the musical growth of a pianist in favor of 'technical' performance. When that happens, people often lose a sense of enjoyment or satisfaction from playing music. Building a life that unshackles your artistic side is IMO worth it if you are at a point that you can rely on just yourself to keep getting better. Maybe that perspective helps a bit.
Thank for sharing! I am happy you found a way that works for you!
Thank you for sharing these things. Classical piano is so beautiful and hard at the same time, and I think that with the same amount of effort in a non-music related field anyone could get a very good job. The amount of sacrifices pianists make are only paid emotionally.
Wonderful video ❤ I love piano so much 🎹🎹 I’m hopelessly in love with it 💖
I was on Trifonov's website recently and I was astonished at his concert schedule this season (and the huge range of repertoire he'll be playing). Now, Trifonov's career is something we all wish we were good enough to have, but I couldn't help but think - God, that's a lot of travelling and a lot of hotels. Not quite as glamorous as I would have hoped for. When you think about it, capitalism and the consumerism of classical music is driving an industrial level scale of concerts. And he's at the very top tier. What's it like for the smaller fish? I see some commenters here describing their experience and I tip my hat to all of you.
@@LisztyLiszt there's a story about Rachmaninoff being asked how he felt about playing in Kansas City, to which he replied that the hall seated 3000. Godowsky performed in Seattle around 1903. Can you imagine?!
Yeah it's surely something one shouldn't be jealous of...
@@DenZhdanovPianist You need to have a strong constitution and lots of stamina . Pletnev in recent years has performed all four Rachmaninoff concertos in a single concert. I doubt there are many pianists of any age who could do that.
Actually, I think quite many pianists can do this, and most concert pianists have at least two-three of the Rach concerti ready in the repertoire since teenage years. Learning another one-two and training oneself to play them in one evening is a time-consuming, but feasible task.
But it’s very hard to get this kind of offer. One has to be a superstar, and there should be a very tough orchestra to agree to this.
@@DenZhdanovPianist And a very tough audience to listen to it 😅
Studied with Tanski at Mozarteum. First week he wanted a movement of Beethoven sonata memorized. I am happy to be able to call him an idiot always when i see him in Salzburg;) It is an opportunity not everyone has. The truly great were always kind and considerate to someones limits, not clueless toxic. Rouvier is a great teacher and handles you like an artist
I'm a screenwriter, and most of what you said applies to my profession too. And now I'm learning to play the piano... mmm I'm starting to see a pattern here.
Stay away of classical music. Learn to make your own music and have fun. Creative piano. Have your voice. Dont´be a parrot.
Stay away and very far from conservatories and people who come from them.
@@Amatteus That's what Bill Evans said. If you play honestly and do your thing, you can build from there. If you try to imitate others, the foundations of your music will always be shaky.
Yup the entertainment industry in general is a shit show, same pattern in all fields…
Currently a hobby-pianist, former church organist and choir director, very part-time positions. Never had the ambition to pursue music vocationally. I picked up a minor degree in music in college to bolster my abilities at church. I once wondered out loud to my college organ teacher what the point of my studies was since I did not intend to pursue a career. He answered, " the world needs good amateurs, too." I appreciated his observation so much, and set myself on course to be the best amateur I could be. It has brought me in closer communion with some of history's greatest musical minds. What a privilege!
This is a fantastic video, thanks for making it. Some of this stuff is crazy, and should make us thank those of you who do go the distance all the more 🙏 I'll not be getting through that in my lifetime 😅
Денис, честно сказать, я еще больше захотел стать пианистом после этого видео) Какая-то магия меня манит в это дело, даже несмотря на все те минусы, о которых ты рассказал в видео
The highs are extremely high, and the disappointments can be devastating. I’ve seen students get destroyed by teachers with no sympathy. I’ve competed against some of the finest, and appeared before the most successful international artists. In the end, I chose to pursue full time music ministry, and still play here and there.
Сouod you please elaborate more on "get destroyed", what do you mean ?
@@MishaSkripach I'm guessing he's talking about toxic teachers who constantly berate their students. Personal story time from me: when I was an undergrad I had a classmate who attended the affiliated high school of a prestigious conservatory located on the US East Coast. His focus was on the piano. Sadly he faced a very toxic learning environment where his teachers constantly tore him down. That scarred him mentally which led to issues in college.
@@lynncai587 More likely, he just got a long needed reality check, when soothing and misleading empty praise was replaced by normal professional criticism.
@@MishaSkripach there is a clear difference between constructive/normal professional criticism vs personal attacks and slander. My friend unfortunately got the latter.
@@lynncai587Standards are very different. Many times I saw gentle constructive criticism perceived by a delusional student at an insult. Now professors are just intructed to keep quiet and repeat "good, good..." and they check what nationality the student is - if it is an Italian, Spanish, Japanese, Russian - anything can be said and will be perceived as normal criticism. But English-speaker... oh no... they can play AWFULLY professors will just nod. As hopeless, people not prepared for the truth have no future in music.
I was a music major in the 70’s. I was never good enough to be a soloist, but did play part time in small orchestras for a number of years (I’m a violist). I am now 69 years old, I have not played a solo except at my church in nearly 40 years, and I still have the “recital dream”. In the dream, I have to play a graduating recital in 2 weeks, I have not met with my accompanist, and I have just started learning the hardest piece. The trauma is real, even decades later. The only way to minimize stage fright is to be extremely well prepared, even for the simple little pieces I play at church. Then I am only slightly nervous, and can do my best.
😢 well a good thing that you’re a responsible performer! Some just don’t care how they play!
Take hearts, Denis. Live is amazing. Music is sounding everywhere.
Incredibly illuminating. Thank you!
This video is a massive gift. A detailed portrait of the mechanics behind the career of a concert pianist, it provides a perspective that I did not have, yet makes perfect sense as it meshes that mythical life with the real life that underlies it. Zhdanov is not only talented, he's honest, and I really appreciate that.
Thanks for your feedback!
Gatekeepers, a concept I knew before but now I know how to name it!
Thank you for this honest video. Unfortunately the hours invested in practicing rarely can compensate whatever you are getting paid for a concert. I work as an accompanyst in violin so its a way of getting paid for doing some chamber music (when students are good) and acquiring repertoire for future possibilities.
I think we all need to find our way around to keep doing music and be able to be financially stable
Thank you for a brutally honest assessment of how hard it is to become and remain a concert level pianist, very illuminating. It is amazing to me that so many people attempt to make it. These pianists have so many other opportunities given the discipline they learned to become a top performing pianist.
Thank you very much for posting this...
Such a great video. Thank you!♥️
Oh my god, as a former dancer, now choreographer and currently studying to become an opera director I can relate to this so much in the stage departmenrt When you mentioned the nightmares of being unprepared for a show..... the competition, the mental side, the money....
They do not teach this in college! It is so easy to be crushed, especially now! There are so many predators out there, for that is what they are! Your realism is sadly, too necessary. Nt only have you been responsible enough to write this, you have enabled others here, to speak up! It is awful what greed can do! You have a living to earn.Agents have a fortune to make! i hope you have a blessed life!
Agents is a necessary part of the business. Although I darken the colors to raise awareness about challenging and not always ethical sides of the profession, emergence of people who mediate between artists and venues was evolutionary necessary.
@@DenZhdanovPianist Alas again, you are right! There is good and bad in everything! I cannot help thinking that it is a glamorous form of surfdom! I think that I am too cynical today! Take the best care :) and ThankYou for your kind response :)
When I studied with my piano teacher, a renowned concert pianist, he choked on his coffee when I told him I wanted to get a degree in performance. He immediately told me not to get into it and to do something else in the industry because the opportunities were so slim. Fast forward to when I went to college in Boston, the pianists at the major schools, for the most part, played the same pieces. We always joked that if we all played in a competition, it would be a toss-up as to who would win. Looking back, my teacher gave me the best advice I could imagine. I switched to composition ( which also is another major headache, but that is a conversation for another time), and am at the point now where I can create my own concerts and build a following on social media. The best part of all of this is, I can still perform in piano recitals. Just through my own show.
First sentence hurts so much, I could physically feel how you probably felt at that moment😅
@@DenZhdanovPianist Not going to lie, I felt like crap at first lol, but once I went to college and graduated, I realized he was right and it was the best advice he could have given me. He still encourages all of his students not to seek a career as a concert pianist for the same exact reasons you mentioned in your video.
Wow. I've got a degree in performance. I think all that "profession-career-identity" thing is harmful. But I only have that degree LOL and I don't want more. If someone says "sour grapes" i'll answer that those kind of grapes can be found anywhere, we're all subject to be biased. But yes, I would nowadays choke on my coffee and say something more radical than your teacher. You had some luck in the paths.
Most important rule of life: Don't let your greatest passions depend on money !
I'm a pianist myself and chose a whole different career to make a living. Never regret a minute of that decision.
I made the same decision. No regrets
Same. Had career in another field, exchanged money for time and now have time to play piano for fun (lots of it).
I work part time in IT and have plenty of free time for piano, family etc. I'm really glad not to have to struggle to make a living out of it. A good rule of thumb in life is, the more enjoyable something is, the more people are willing to do it for free (or nearly). Careers in arts, music or sports just involve a mixture of BIG luck, talent or just being born rich to make it work.
I was a pianist, avoided all further careers and I'm so proud of myself.
Denis, thank you for presenting this great subject, very touching. I had stage fright at an early age, 9, during a presentation of students, and I completely failed. Now, I am almost 79, love playing and learning a Bach Prelude or the Gigue from a Partita, as well as improvising, for hours, in all musical directions. Still, when people suddenly appear, I just as suddenly freeze up. Це життя. Enjoy your day.
Thanks for sharing! I am sorry to hear about your experience!
I'm a musician from Indonesia. Thank you so much for a realistic video. Finally, someone is brave enough to speak out the harsh reality.
Great video. Totally truth, even regarding modern music, specially composers. Our challenge is to build our own space, trying to envolve as minimum as possible agents, taxes, etc
Liszt knew when to get out
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing. 👍🏼👏🏼
1. I am not in the classical music business, simply a Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Schubert etc FANATIC!
2. As an outsider, I am aware of a HUGE UNTAPPED MARKET out there for the aforementioned composers and others.
3. The first thing to be done is to establish a THINK TANK for performers to review the issues and problems outlined in this video
4. This think tank or PERFORMERS' COUNCIL, would invite, receive and review submissions from the HUGE LISTENING AND CONSUMING PUBLIC out There, with their suggestions on GROWING THE MARKET.
5. Consideration could be given to forming an INTERNATIONAL PERFORMERS' UNION with SET RATES for performances. This should cut out the agents.
6. Eventually, finances permitting, consideration can be given to forming a FINANCIAL COOPERATIVE.
This video confirms what I have long suspected (obsessed with piano but not a musician)
I have great empathy for so many great pianists that deserve so much but receive so little for their level of talent and hard work.
Thank you for the most insightful video - yours here - I have listened to in a very long time, hitherto having known nothing of the set up involved in creating a concert performance. I am a passionate lover of good music, and was taught the piano for about 8 years, but lacked the gift of mastery to perform faultlessly. Instead my forte is academic writing. I do know one promising and flowering concert pianist, Celestine Yoong, but that is another story. What I want to share with you is my reaction to your video. I have noticed for years that the repertoire for the listening public is narrow. It is only my experience at discovering the full range of composers whose works are available to listen to - courtesy of the internet (especially TH-cam) that the realisation has come like an avalanche in slow motion that only a select few composers are singled out for the performance of their works being constantly pushed and repeated: Chopin, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Beethoven, Mozart, Rachmaninoff,..... Yes, these are fully deserving of their elevation. But the cost of lionising them artificially is the ignoring and neglecting of many composers whose works are the equal of them, which has the effect of limiting what the public can come to learn and enjoy. I can quickly produce a long list of those who wrote concerti: Moszkowski, Hummel, Martinu, Martucci, Scriabin, Medtner, Lyapunov, Balakirev,.... to name but a few of the better known of this obscure fellowship. There are many names which are hardly known, if at all. I thank God for TH-cam for opening up so widely the knowledge of these composers. Your arguments make the reasons clear: it is your agents and other principle and pivotal figures in the field who are the ones producing this "Top Ten" situation, engendering the artificial public perception that the usual well-known composers are the only ones who have ever existed and whose works are worth listening to at the exclusion of the rest. These agents, etc., are the real powers in the field. If I now had the chance to become a performing artist, I would immediately turn down such a life for the reasons you state: the decisions made far above my head, who wield the power, the control, the money, etc. One thing is true, however, and you bring the point out well: that a concert pianist has a gift of genius from God is something to be recognised, but the astonishing thing is how many such artists are there in the field, all hopeful of fame and popularity. There are simply too many in the queue for the openings available. And here is also the negative side to it: the probable fighting and ruthless spirit of competition and clawing each other to get ahead in front of the crowd.
I will end with a serious suggestion I once gave Celestine: in thinking about the hearty applause a performer enjoys at the end of the piece, I decided it is partly misplaced, since no one applauds the person who wrote the music. I seriously suggested to Celestine that instead of bowing to the audience at the end of her performance, that she herself clap heartily WITH the audience, because a large portrait of the composer would be on prominent display all through the music being played, and she would be facing and applauding that! No doubt such a switch of transferring credit from the performer to the composer would be a sensational event, one that no one could ever expect, but it would be a great change to make and an encouragement to humility on behalf of the performer. It would also remind people that the really superior artists are not only those who play what others have written but those who possess the ability to compose new music themselves (Celestine, being a child prodigy, is precisely such a person, from a young age). But alas, no doubt, people like your agents and producers would put a frosty cap on such a change, the first reason no doubt being the motivation bound up with what money they could make from it. I now see what little choices performing artists have in this whole scene; I had thought it was much more. I would never want any part of it.
This video is a great eye-opener. I too had aspirations of a career as a concert pianist ...But now I see how lucky I was that I got out in time and went into academia instead..🙏
Please don’t watch videos of sabine hossenfelder, better stay happy and fulfilled then😬
My mom gave me the advice to not pursue a career as a concert pianist, at first I was angry and didn’t agree, but now I am thankful. I have found many joys in performing and most situations my prep/travel/logistics/performance time vs. pay lacked miserably. There were a few unicorns in which I was fairly compensated, but that was rare. Now music is a great side gig to my full time engineering career, and I think I like it better that way. I have found Agencies/Promoters/Entertainment execs. to be too demanding and treat me like I was nothing but a dollar sign when I was pursuing music full time, because they held the keys to the biggest shows. Now I have the freedom to choose and be my own boss in choosing where and when I would like to perform, and to be honest it’s way better! I am not downing on the concert pianist career, please pursue if it is for you. This just works for me to have a stable career but at the same time still getting to enjoy my music in a free way.
Thanks for sharing!
That was my parents told me. Now i am a doctor, who a regular hobby as apianist.😂❤🎉Thank papa and mama.❤❤
Whoa…. Thanks for showing us the actual numbers. It’s shocking really 😢
You are amazing. Greetings from Greece.🌻
Cool video dude, best of luck with it
You’ve said it all. So many hours practice for so little return. ❤❤❤ totally agree with you
I started as a pianist, was fairly successful when I was young but I soon realized it was going to be hell. I switched to violin and got a position in a top orchestra. It's luxury, I can't fathom how anyone would sacrifice basically their whole life and happiness in order to be a concert pianist if it weren't for deep love for music. Each time top solo pianists come to play with us they look exhausted, by the way!
Wow it’s amazing you were able to switch an instrument and be successful with the second one as well!💪
@@DenZhdanovPianist Thanks! I was a "late bloomer" on the violin but it turned out okay. Hope to see you live someday!
At what age did you switch to the violin?
@@fedegroxo twenty, I played also before but at twenty I started taking it seriously
@@shobarsch Amazing, I picked up the violin at age 27, with no prior experience in music, it's been a tough road :D
This is, of course, absolute reality; raises the notion that any type of musical career aspirations seems like as insane as some political campaigns in the US. You give deep dive detail on a big time reality, where aspiring musicians are most often in denial about the realities. The entire history of music is no different, anywhere, any period. As usual, you provide plenty of visual blips that are brilliant humorous comment. Bernstein and Argerich "preparing" for concerts. I have 50 years of quite high-level experience as a vocal performer after Uni academy style training. I made a few bucks in the beginning but then it became less worth the effort. Finally gave up such ambitions at 32 and decided to do what I could with my musical art. When I decided on a music major at about 19, I did so because it was the most fun, like by far, of what I had sampled on the college lazy smorgasbord. Per hour of unit for time and money, viz a viz, any other major, it wasn't worth it, like preparing 5 pieces for jury at term end, spending 15 hours/week,150 hours/term for 1 unit credit. Nevertheless, though my earnings from music have been miniscule, I have never for one moment regretted my decision. In the beginning I said, "Self, if I never make a dime out of this, it's still worth it." My dimes came form elsewhere.
My piano wasn't good enough for college major but my voice was prodigious, very pleasing and my work ethic was way up there. I saw a little more talented people than me fall by the wayside after their ego was wounded early on. In my later seniority, I have been back at developing my lagging piano technique. I have the artistry to know what I want, and now the piano skills to solve most of my own challenges. I was also gaslighted by the teachers I had, not very helpful, though with glowing resumes from top music conservatories and the fees to match. They were making money out of the system, on my dime, without giving me much in the way of real guidance, any more than to make me feel better to come back and pay next week. Yeah, the system is a bitch; why would anyone pursue a concert career, develop that level of excellence and suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous musical fortune, in the face of such diminishing returns? Every one at every level is trying to extract money from every other level. It's called human greed, the infinity of which rules out an ideal world.
Pasquale66 nailed it. Music is a personal passion, very often a guiding one. Speaks to the enduring nature of music itself. I am deeply read in the history of music; the impulse is probably close to sex as an attraction, which it can be itself. I studied singing with a retired former international star; she asked after some attempt to get me into my best singing pathway. I said, "this feels almost auto-erotic." She responded, "That's because it's exactly what it is." Enough said.
I will close my Russian novel with a personal gripe: Those who feel so elevated as artists and people they feel the right and personal style obligation to condescend and attack others over what is obviously a matter of opinion and experience; not what is universally true, as they see it. Look at you, Lang Lang, Argerich, people having fun with their art and sharing what they know for the benefit of others. We feel it keenly, brother. People may be advanced, but not to the level of God unless you're running for US President or your own piano channel. I suspect those folks will ultimately fail no matter their level of skill, and ball busting style, due to lack of people skills. They reek of it and don't get it. It's the same in any human endeavor. I see music, in the main, as entertainment, after 50+ years of experence. So, lighten up, have fun with it. "If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong." My life motto. Denis is having fun. We are attracted to that. It is easy to identify, no matter the level of technical prowess or histrionics, folks whose main consideration is themselves, not the community advancement or even the glory of the muse itself.
Three people died and went to heaven; Peter met them at the Pearly Gates for an admission check. He told each one they were to say how much money/year they made at their career, then state what they did. The first said, $200,000/year; I was an attorney. Next, $90,000; I was a real estate agent. The last guy said $16,000. Before he could say more, Peter asked, "Oh, yes. What instrument did you play?"
I, early on demarcated music making from business. When you are dictated what to play, and how to play it, free wheeling artistry declines, because freedom of expression is restricted.
If you have, thanks for listening; Denis, you'll get a lot of feedback here; comment invitations are another mark of you being a soccer playing kid mensch.
Very interesting story, and well-reasoned points, thanks for sharing!
@@DenZhdanovPianist Thank you for the clear and sincere invitation. One last lick; when I was about 28 and my first wife, whose mother was my voice teacher/coach at my alma mater, after watching me strive and suffer some in the "classical" mode, suggested, very seriously, that I should get a guitar and learn the 3 required chords in a week or two, then get a country outfit, hat, string tie, boots; go on the circuit of agents, audition for Lawrence Welk, and all, make beaucoup bucks like Glenn Campbell and co. I had the chops for it, the looks, the slow steady deep voice, blond wavy hair. Ready sense of constant good humor. I would have succeeded if I could have got behind it which I couldn't. As I say, I made my dimes elsewhere, steady gigs which pay on time and provide benefits. Or I could starve myself and live out of a suitcase for drunken audiences. Hmmm. What to do? When fantasy subsides you step into the voting booth and vote for sanity and friends to Zelenski.
Basically, they only want the competition winners, however now you should look really good as well. A performance graduate from Julliard is not guaranteed a teaching position at a college. There are too many excellent piianists.
Вообще, очень классное видео! Я, если честно, не знал всю эту подноготную концертного пианиста)) Было очень интересно послушать. Как не было желания становиться концертным пианистом, так его и не появилось)
You nailed it from the beginning. For most (public and musicians), this is a purely hedonistic (and costly) pursue.
thanks denis- for some reason i thought that "legit" or classical musicians
werent subjected to the "gig" economy but as you explain it, its clear that in
this world there is always someone willing to work for "exposure". gee, thank
you, brothers and sisters.
the world will always be full of people who expect you to work for free.
This is a good video; with so many trying to put you down, state fright etc it can put many off
Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.
bravo, Denis! Great content and speaking the truth is important.
Очень приятно Вас встретить здесь, дорогой Арсентий! Сижу и грущу, слушая эту правду...
@@MishaSkripach взаимно! Да, к сожалению, мы все живём в этой реальности. Ничего не добавить не убавить..
@@ArsentiyKharitonov Да... у струнников оркестры есть... там тоже свои трудности...
Wonderful beginning.
Had to start on a positive note otherwise it would seem too dark.
Well Denis, I think you have an enormous talent and plenty of courage and generosity to put it out there for us all to enjoy. I'd like to say a big thank you to you and all the other talents in the business driven by a love of music and a need (and the courage) to communicate this talent despite the many obstacles. Lots of appreciation and admiration 👍
Thank you!
Thanks for the video man
It’s is sad to see the state of the world today, I wonder who are this agencies, who is running them and what is their philosophy (probably just whatever maxes out on profit).
You are right on the nail that having the most talent doesn’t equate to having success in the concert world, connection matter more.
At the end of the day, this video reaffirms my believe that i do what I do because of love, because music is a gift from God. Anyway, great content, so much insight it provides, thank you!
This is probably the norm for the artists career , before agencies you had to study with prominent teachers in order to train you to have a successful career, companies rarely deal directly with the artists unless there isn't anybody else available and nowadays there are many capable players to cover for a last minute cancelation.
@@jadalmatamoros6368I think you’re right. There are many capable players nowadays and there isn’t much demand for classical music. You know, the law of supply and demand, there is a lot of supply and low demand.
Thankfully, being a concert pianist isn’t the only means for making a living as a musician, and pianists can still mature their art all the while doing other things.
Great video on a topic that I admittedly do not know much about. I always wondered what makes a pianist successful. I look at Yulianna Avdeeva, winner of the 2010 International Chopin Competition, and wonder why her career does not seem to achieve the same success at Trifonov’s who placed below her in the same competition. Countless other examples. Ultimately it seems like the listeners decide who the big stars are, and all participants can hope for is capture the attention of enough listeners. Very ruthless industry!
Probably many reasons, foremost could be
1. It's harder to sell her than Daniil, who is somehow a more unique and charismatic performer, despite a peculiar result of that competition, which was a near-scandalous story at the time.
2. Her management may be not as influential
3. There might be other reasons I could be aware of, but it's more of a gossip nature from the Polish management sphere, so I shouldn't.
You don’t want to be a concert pianist, because it’s freaking hard and 99percent of piano players simply CANNOT be concert giving pianists.
I thought that being an orchestra pianist would be a good option, if you could get it.
Some people like Yuja Wang, Lang Lang, and Martha Argerich are just a natural talent when it comes to performing on stage in public. These people enjoy doing the impossible and they make it look so easy.
Thanks for the honest and perfect video. The “gatekeepers” also built up a narrative and a culture which imposes the general population the fake idea that “they were the only most talented and hardworking artists that deserve to be music stars”. These gatekeepers are present in every industry and connected with certain interests groups you just cannot pass by being talented of hardworking. What we can do as listeners is understanding these facts and be demanding of having concerts with lesser known artists. No one can be as hardworking as studying for something very difficult only to use the knowledge for once. I too struggle with these difficulties in another industry and I think it is time for us to unite and oversmart these global interest groups. Because enough!
Also… I always wanted to be a concert pianist, but my father warned me that the environment would be harder than other industries to tackle with for a person who can not be financially supported. So I gave up and went to the college. It still breaks my heart to leave years of work behind. But now I know that father was right. RIP daddy 🩷 thank you 😊
Forgive what may be an ignorant question but--with all we see out of the entertainment industry" as a whole (e.g. Hollywood; rock, etc), when talking about the classical "gatekeepers" it makes one wonder if there isn't a deeper underbelly there? No "casting couches" by talent scouts/agents, parties, etc....this stuff is everywhere, so had to query about the behind scenes in classical. Good video!
You should only do music professionally if you cannot reasonably do something else. My father was a professional musician (still is part time) and it was the right choice for him. But I knew that I needed to do something different since the music route was not conducive to my life goals. And yet I still have time to play and perform locally, just on my own terms rather than on the terms dictated by needing to make ends meet
It makes sense. Music is subjective when you have great musicians performing at an elite level. Who’s to say that one interpretation is better than another????? Your career can skyrocket if your playing fits the audience and their preferences for your interpretations. Very insightful here.
This is all very interesting. I am an amateur musician and my main occupation is simutaneous Interpreter. We have the same problems in our career: reputation, promotion skills, agencies. Most agencies take 50% of our payment and more. We are dependent on our colleagues' recommendations and on business situation in the country and globally. Usually travel and accommodation costs are covered by our clients. I was totally unaware of all the subtleties of a concert pianist's career.
Ouch, 50% management fees is painful😅
But even if you do make it as a concert pianist on the highest level there's another problem - it's akin to having a deal with the devil. Pretty sure that someone like Yuja Wang, who has a significant promotion machine behind her, which means a large monetary investment on their part, is contractually obliged to perform specific popular standard repertoire works and doesn't have complete freedom over her artistic career. Impresarios and publishing companies want to make money so they'll have their artists play Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky despite there being 200 recordings of these works available already. Same goes for the major orchestras. Imagine that the Berlin Philharmonic would do a Louis Spohr or Niels Gade or Franz Schmidt symphony cycle instead of Mahler or Beethoven. Not going to happen. It's the sub-top (for lack of a better term - they're still really good, generally speaking) like the Malmö Symphony Orchestra or the Slovak Radio Philharmonic that can get away with that.
I have a large LP and CD collection and virtually all the less well-known repertoire I have is from smaller regional symphony orchestras and second tier (hate to say it, they're all top level musicians) soloists on budget labels like VoxBox, Brilliant Classics etc. or on major independent labels such as Hyperion and Naxos. Only rarely do major labels like Deutsche Grammophon venture outside of the standard repertoire.
The only reason some performers have that freedom is because the repertoire that made them famous was non-standard to begin with, or because they can afford to as they can make ends meet with a professorship. Take one famous exception to the rule, Marc-André Hamelin, his late father was a high level amateur pianist who introduced him to Alkan and various other non-standard repertoire composers he specialised in from an early age. Most of the other major performers of lesser known repertoire are piano professors who specialise in their favourite niche composer. Joop Celis is famous for his York Bowen recordings, Arsentiy Kharitonov specialises in Leo Ornstein and plays lots of his own compositions, Jürg Hanselmann recorded 11 CDs with the complete piano music of Josef Rheinberger, Seta Tanyel specialises in Scharwenka, the late Michael Ponti recorded all kinds of obscure Romantic piano concertos and solo works, etc. They could never have done that if they were superstars with a marketing machine behind them.
The effects of this are not just crap for the artists but also for concert audiences who might want to hear some more adventurous works being programmed but rarely get the chance to. As someone who is deeply attached to lesser known 19th century Romantic repertoire this bothers me.
Great points! On the other hand, it’s good that, thanks to globalization, we still have some access to music that is harder to sell!
It is a very sad reality; my dream as a child was to make a living giving concerts, but I realized early on that I didn’t even remotely have the kind of super-human technique technique required. So I chose a different career path, and if I hadn’t, I would have had to live in poverty.
Only a minuscule percentage of people are serious listeners of classical music and would even be able to tell the difference between genuinely great artists like Argerich, de Larrocha, Schiff, Kissin, Perahia, etc and a faux talent like Lang Lang…I would include Yuga Wang, but at least she seems genuinely talented.
Yet LL very likely out-earns all of them, and this has nothing to do with his true value as a serious musical artist (which is vastly over-inflated, IMO).
I’ve attended concerts by the top level pianists mentioned above which were only sparsely attended, meaning it was very likely a financial disaster for the concert halls which engaged them.
A friend of mine who is a very mediocre pianist (actually he’s pretty bad-of course I would never say it to him) performed in a master-class for a very good local pianist of some renown. And I thought to myself, why is such a fantastic musician bothering with such low level talent? (I admit how terrible it sounds for me to say it)…
My friend wisely chose not to pursue music and is a very successful attorney.
There are many more things one could say about this subject, but the sad reality is that, outside certain cities in which there is a thriving demand for it, classical music is essentially dead.
Lang Lanf is also a genuine talent.
I live in a certain city in Asia and here if you are a professional musician with decent teaching experiences and good network, you can accumulate a monthly salary to up to around 10K USD being a freelancer. Being a pianist though is a whole different story since your career is more limited to accompanying or teaching at private studios.
Yes, numbers vary from city to city but this is a wide-spread tendency.
My mum was right - based on this video she wouldn’t have been able to support me until I make money from playing piano as we have no contacts and I have stage fright. If this video existed 15 yrs ago I wouldn’t have had depressive crying episodes about listening to her not pursuing studies at music conservatory for classical piano back then. Thanks for explaining so clearly the realities.
Everyone who considered been a musician should be thankful for this video.
Everyone who will become a musician despite this video will inevitably gain success, because they are not easy to scare!😎
sorry but may I ask what is the bgm at 0:50 ？❤ so familiar but I forgot it😭
❤very interesting video, thank you!!
Where can i find a list of „gatekeepers“ for the concert landscape of switzerland?
Оо, на первой минуте услышал концовку "Жар-Птицы" Стравинского в аранжировке для фортепиано соло!
Лайк)