Signs you're dating a "nice guy"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ม.ค. 2022
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Anna really *does* go to therapy for other people. She literally talked to her therapist about a friend in an abusive marriage.
For other people indeed!!!! Im benefiting too 😁😁😁😁😁
@@crackasscrackle Haha facts💕
Who is her therapist though...I want to work this person! lol
Many of us who are in therapy already also regularly seek out advice to help those we care about, especially those of us who are empaths as people in need of help are drawn to us.
It is very hard not to want to help others when we literally feel their emotional pain (as well as the emotions of anyone and everyone we are in proximity to) as if their emotions were our own (which can be very confusing at times when it comes to separating our own feelings from those around us) coupled with our own past experiences of oftentimes extraordinary abuse, neglect, and/or other trauma (which, along with genetics, played an enormous role in the development of that level of empathy because an overdevelopment in empathy literally meant being able to predict our abuser’s moves and motives in advance and thus the opportunity to either moderate that abuse by placating them before they act or to use that skill to help shield other potential victims by moving them out of harms way in advance).
I like to call this trickle down therapy
If you are a "nice guy" it's really important you understand the why behind your actions. Usually it's tied to something that happened in your early childhood where you started seeking approval from women in a covert way. Read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" you don't always have to be that way if you don't want to.
The goal isn't to be a nice guy, or a Chad or a "bad boy" but to be an actual person who voices their feelings and makes their desires known without resorting to shitty manipulative tactics.
It always starts from childhood. Everything mentally wrong with a person. Literally.
Becoming a chad felt like the solution for do long.
I hate chads😄
Was poison for my soul to thing i had to one
Yes all this!
Took 39 years but i finally thing on a path forward.
When i was younger i tried but took forcuts. Did understand what was causing these things ate way. I shortcut to solutions.
Become chad and mashing up dem guts as often as I could.
But the self loathing and the utter desiluzioned destain for women falling for such cheap utter cheap tricks. Bruv im still working stuff out.
But im feel im on a good path for the first time ever.
Making one's desires known isn't always the most tactful thing to do. Better to keep it on the down low and let a limited select few know, and only let them know what they need to know. Because we all know what most people's inner desires are, and they are full of sin. It's why society has controls for them. No need to remind people of it everyday.
I don’t know. That book was recommended to me, and I read it. I made some improvements and got better at setting boundaries. I found out that most people will still try to ignore them or find a way around them, and it’s a constant battle to either reinforce them or walk away. I even did a weekend workshop with the author, and I was not impressed. He’s basically aligned with the PUA community now, and seems pretty sleazy to me. He’s on his third marriage, and living in Mexico, and talking about how that one might not work out because his wife gets jealous. I’ve become very wary of these “self-help professionals”.
She really hit me when she said you feel like you need to earn love and I realized I been doing that subconsciously
Nice guys don't want to earn love... But earn sex... As most nice guys aren't nice but just pretend to be so
Its also possible that a guy friend develops feelings over time, even if it started out platonic. Its happened to me and I know girls it's happened to as well. If you share your feelings and get rejected, then the one with the feelings might need to back away for awhile. Didn't mean it was all some master plan.
True.. regardless, we all should be aware when we start expecting the efforts we put in to be reciprocated
There is no need to worry. The advice given above is nonsense and based on profound cynicism.
That's not nice guy syndrome. She's talking about people who take the rejection as a personal insult.
As a guy, I've had both guys and girls develop feelings for me, and I have developed feelings for girls as well (all cases were it started out as platonic). It's never easy but it's part of life, we have to learn to be honest with ourselves and each other and respect our boundaries and each others' boundaries. What's important is to never guilt anyone into feeling bad for feeling or not feeling emotions for you.
I agree but you also gotta Accept rejection. It’s not the end of the world, move on and if you guys genuinely get a long keep talking to each other.
The reason that the "nice guy syndrome" exists is because of scarcity. They grew up thinking they weren't good enough and had to do do do everything with getting love in the end. Yes, I was that guy!
Its so fcked up what seemingly small things are carried by people for years and years... like a cause of what you said could be years of bullying in school, cause if so many people for so many years treat you like your not good enough to be nice to, even though you say say f them and go on with your life, your left with years of conditioning that says they NEED to do all these nice things just to get some happiness in return. May or may not be speaking from experience 👀
@@skie6282 what helped me was going to therapy to resolve these things and surround myself with people who are more supportive now than ever before
Scarcity is a myth though. It may seem real with abusive parents and/or growing up in a tiny town or going to a tiny school and being in a tiny class or something like that, but there's a a whole wider world out there, in exponential excess. Love will find you, in multiples, in ways you'll least expect. The key is to get to a point in life that you feel like you deserve it when it shows up!
@@gialanamoon5094 the mentality is what matters, so I see what you're saying. What I was getting at is the mentality of lacking, if that makes more sense
"Nice guy" just means too ugly to date.
Right on time as usual lol. I have finally started to set boundaries with people. It's scary and difficult at times, but sooooo worth it. Thanks again Anna!
So not being a one sided relationship is bad
@@smartass0124 is that what she means?
I really didn't get it
Good for you!!
How to set boundaries?
@@SayaliNikumbh for me, it started with realizing why I wasn't setting them in the first place. Through therapy, I discovered I have a fear of abandonment that stems from my childhood. After that, I had to convince myself that the ones who truly love me won't leave me for setting these boundaries and putting myself first. I JUST started, but it feels really good to be doing it. One baby step I've taken is to ask for alone time from my partner. Try to find something like that to start with. It will feel scary, but once it's over I'm sure you will feel empowered and relieved like I did. Best of luck on your journey! I'm rooting for you!
I identify with all except the expectation of sex in return, but usually I haven't said no in the past. Cue the relationship only happening because the woman gives me validation and I situate 90+% of all my actions toward keeping her happy, appreciated, and heard despite lying about my own wants and needs in the relationship. Like how when they call something I love boring or they'd never do that and me avoiding the topic entirely for the rest of the relationship. That leads to a serious amount of resentment, distrust, and poor communication. Maybe it's just mirroring to an incredibly unhealthy extent, but it's definitely coming from a place of not believing I have worth. I'm working hard on that right now and taking care of my body, improving my diet, and cleaning my apartment for my own sake not a guest or date for the first time ever. I'm glad I've begun realizing this before I got into another relationship and had kids I was not prepared for, married or not. Thank you for all the clarity over the years Anna & I hope you're appreciating your worth more everyday too.
That's so good! Keep it up!!
I definitely see some of these tendencies in the guy I'm dating now. He's had a lot of past relationship trauma. I would really like to help him feel safe to set boundaries and make sure he's taking time and energy for himself.
So if you have a little extra brainspace, could I ask you a few questions? Do you think there's anything your partners could have said to you to encourage you to take more time and energy for yourself? What would have made it feel safe to set boundaries? And did you ever find there was a way your value could be acknowledged that felt real and that you didn't resist? I guess, do you think there were any ways a partner could have helped you on this journey and helped you feel restful and secure in the relationship?
Thanks in advance if you answer, but also just thank you for this comment. It makes me really happy to see people healing themselves. You're doing an amazing job, and I hope you end up feeling solid and secure in your worthiness. You deserve it.
It just makes me happy to read this. Please keep it up! Even though you have hard time believing it, you ARE lovable and you HAVE worth.
I've learned that satisfying relationships only happen when you teach each other how you want to be treated. Just like with dog training you need to speak up immediately or (if the context/situation is not appropriate for ex at work or at a funeral) talk to them about it as soon as you can. If you say or do something multiple times and your partner does not tell you until you've done it for the hundredth time you're going to feel hurt and lied to because you'll understand that your partner was secretly upset/annoyed with you and pretending not to be. It really undermines trust and feeling safe.
That's why lots of people say they prefer "blunt" people even if they can be tactless. It feels safer to know that your partner is being honest with you.
The fact that you're so aware of your issues is already a great step!
You will do great, I wish you the best, sincerely!
"Nice guys" are also about something else. About girls who make boys believe they're interested in them while actually there's no way, so they're creating and maintaining as long as possible an emotional ambiguity to try to get emotional labor (and sometimes free stuff) from a guy. What usually happens then is that the guy understands he's been manipulated and leaves the relationship
So sad how much we all needed this bc of all the not nice guys out there and we don't know what's healthy anymore.
To be fair girls do this to and man complain about the same issues
In the end, we are victims of media and poor example. We can only keep exploring until what works for BOTH, not just yourself.
I was a "nice guy" up until I was 20, and it was due to poor socialization and C-PTSD inflicted by a narcissistic parent.
"I do everything you say you want, so why don't you love me the way I want to be loved?" was a recurring theme throughout most of my relationships.
Since I've healed, I now realize that most of these "jerks" and "assholes" that the objects of my affection ended up dating were operating on a level that I didn't even know existed at the time.
Some people are just nice , because thats the way they were brought up , it doesnt always mean they have an ulterior motive
Exactly!
Yeah but that's not who we're talking about. We're talking about the ones who do have an ulterior motive.
They’re not talking about nice guys they’re talking about ”nice" guys.
@@just1nj962 that is what she’s talking about but the fact that she’s not talking about both sides of the “nice guy” personality will make people think that all nice guys have some ulterior motive when most do not and are just genuinely nice people.
@@just1nj962 how do you know which one has a ulterior motive or not? Y’all woman can’t even understand each other
I'm a nice guy, and I don't feel entitled to a womans body, I just get super annoyed because after telling the girl that I like how I feel, after finally building up enough courage to do it, not only does she tell me no, but she also tells me that she knew of my feelings for a long time, but would prefer for us to just be friends, wtf?! So my question is who is the real manipultive person btween the nice guy and his crush who 90% of the time probably already knew of his feelings towards her, but instead of confronting him about his feelings towards her, she would rather string him along and take advantage of his time, money and energy?! And if he decides to call it quits after she turns him down he's the 1 who gets accused of being manipulative, because he no longer wants to waste his time, money and energy on her anymore, which is BS, smfh.
Fr💯
Is better you improve yourself more and be high value man and don’t care about her, even if girl need your help, you just help if you think help as gentleman expect no return but if the help you think is not worth it, then start to say no or not free. One day if you can sense girl like the way you are and you also like the way she is then go for it or at the right time ask her did you like me? :)
Perhaps the improvement you seek is getting higher confidence to be more assertive when assessing the girls interest and not making it personal if she rejects.
Rejection is a sign directing you back to your path, like saying: you won’t find happiness here.
So, in the end, if the person do not genuine and easily want you, why bother? The quickest way is back to your path! 🎉
A very compassionate and realistic reflection on what goes on in these dynamics. Despite the loud minority where we see horrendous behaviour from people with these traits there are a lot of people just trying to figure things out and be more authentic. We all have incredible capacity for growth
I used to be the kind of guy who expected to "conquer" a girl through mere kind actions or constantly giving nice presents until I realized the importance of communication and the importance of reciprocity.
At the same time there were some girls who used to try the same strategies with me but who I kept rejecting because I didn't find them attractive enough, which now makes me think of the female counterpart of the Nice Guy, oftenly kept out of such discussions.
"Nice girls" are rarely talked about just like "toxic femininity"
nice guy's female version could be pick me girl. not exactly synonymous but u understand the gist.
Oh there's definitely a "nice girl" counterpart. I've fallen into it in the past. It doesn't help when you have a constant narrative from guys saying "girls are too picky, they all want chads. I just want a nice decent looking girl who doesn't start drama" and you think "I'm a nice decent looking girl, I don't want Chads, I like nerdy guys who aren't all 6ft tall, and I'm easy going and no drama" and then you get rejected. Just like guys who see women say "where are all the good men?" And don't know why women aren't dating them.
Both sides have a bad habit of down playing what their looking for as "I'm not asking for much here" claiming it's the other side who's being overly picky. But true compatibility and attraction is never as simple as someone just "being nice."
Someone plz explain what's happeninghere: @1st: Girls mistake me 4 a 'nice-guy' b/c I'm polite. They quickly realize I've already 'friend-zoned' them b/c I treat them like my big-head niece. Then they're intrigued, but I remain indifferent. 😕
It really just comes down to fear of rejection. Dating is actually surprisingly easy once you can get over the fear and just communicate your intentions clearly while being totally okay with the other person saying “no.”
Nailed it - feeling like you have to earn it by being perfect to someone else.
Anna always giving both sides of the coin.... everyone appreciates that.
I completely agree that "Nice Guys" aren't entitled to sex in exchange for favors and availability. It's wrong. If the "Nice Guy's" intentions are not pure and holy, they should not listen to that one female friend's endless problems over the phone after she has a tough break-up; they shouldn't give that one female friend lifts to the grocery store or hardware store; they shouldn't take care of that one female friend's cat when she's traveling, or help move furniture for her. I'm sure she'll have her female friends to help her with that stuff.
Instead, the "Nice Guy" should focus on his needs and healing: work out, find hobbies that he cares about, follow his own interests and passions, travel, meet new people. And definitely Not. Be. "Nice." Instead focus on being sincere, credible, grounded, and at peace. Not all nice guys are predatory; some just want to feel cared for. And it won't ever come from that one "special girl" they admire from a far. It's best to turn away from that. Focus on yourself, and you'll be better for it.
So wanting to treated nice in return is bad
@@smartass0124 For certain women, they see it that way. So "Nice Guys" should focus on themselves and move on.
This feels weirdly specific.
Not saying that's bad, just specific lol
@@smartass0124 You should do nice things for others without expecting something in return. Expecting something in return is the definition of being a nice guy. And this does not only relate to women and sex. But also if you think that you doing a nice deed for a friend means that he *has to* help you with something.
As a necessary disclaimer, this does not mean that you should let yourself be taken advantage of. Relationships in general should be a two way street. If you notice that you are the only one giving and it is bothering you, you absolutely can review the relationship you have with that person and consider if it is worth keeping.
dude do you know how the disarray it would cause if women lost all their orbiters? all those dudes they thought were their 'friends' suddenly disappearing haha I admit it would be funny as fk though
As a former 'nice guy' you hit the nail on the head. Especially the whole parents and boundary aspect. I got myself into one of those controlling marriages and got out once I had enough. Did a lot of growing up since then.
Side note:
I know it's basically a meme that Disney has given girls unrealistic ideas of how love works and such, but it does for us guys too. Same with old fables, movies, games etc. We get this notion that if we save the girl, do the right things, make grand gestures, then we will be rewarded with love, affection, and access to a relationship. I called it the damzel in distress syndrome lol.When I think of where my nice guy days come from, that was definitely part of it as an impressionable youth.
The term I think you are looking for is White Knighting when it comes to the behavior you said you exhibited in the past. But I could be wrong and misinterpreted what you said.
@@kraziiXIII They go hand in hand, I know I used to do a bit of that.
Thanks for sharing your perspective... I feel compassion, and it feels good
Exatamente no ponto
Totally me! Thankfully I'm not like that in 6 years. There was a moment that I understood this pattern and I stopped tell my friends (women) about my "feelings", and I decided not to talk with them, not to go after them to be friends, that's when I also understood that I wasn't important to them either, well to some of them, because they never actively care about me, that was the turning point for me, because it made me understand that I was there to be a emotional support for them, but they weren't that for me.
Hi Anna.
I just wanted to thank you for adding so much value to my life with your content. I have gained a sense of self awareness and have started to work on my issues.
So grateful that I found you.
Good luck! It's a new year :)
This popped up at the exact right moment lol!
Anna usually does :)
Thanks Anna, expected to be portrayed in a bad light but much appreciated your explanation. Its what happened to me, growing up and made to feel like I'm never good enough and was completely starved of any positive attention and affection. This caused me to seek affection in other ways, usually to my detriment.
I now choose to focus on myself and no longer people please like I used to. Still a long road to go...
She's really close. She still buys into the strawman that Nice Guys feels entitled to sex.
@@aaendi6661 yeah mostly, still does better than 95% of the girls out there? Instant hating such people?
This is a really compassionate take. Thank you for sharing this perspective.
Many men are entitled, but what women need to remember is that a person is allowed to be disappointed and/or hurt when someone doesn't reciprocate feelings they have, especially if those feelings were strong. Sadness from rejection is not entitlement, its human emotional response. If your guy BFF admits feelings for you and you reject him, that guy is not automatically an asshole if he then keeps his distance to avoid further emotional trauma instead of just going "OK, great!" and acting like those deeper feelings were never there.
It's like how men/women aren't entitled to romantic reciprocation for being "Nice". The same principle stands where men/women aren't entitled to a friendship after rejecting somebody's romantic interest in them.
I don't think people call people who keep a distance after rejection ' nice guys' , its often when they protest at their companionship not being rewarded with a relationship or something of that sort . And woman do get rejected all the time .
Yeah... I've noticed Anna's videos have been getting more extreme since 2020 🤔, being more & more not so universally relatable.
Avoiding emotional trauma is already very wrong.. instead of avoiding it, you should heal it.. just like any physical wounds, if you don't heal it, it will get worse overtime.. avoiding the person who reject you to heal yourself is fine, but to avoid emotional trauma? Gonna be worse in the long run.. Don't say I didn't warn you 😊😊
I guess the counterpoint to this is two-fold. Firstly, I think taking some time for yourself to heal is one thing but it's a whole other thing to remove yourself from a trusted friendship indefinitely. Think about it from her perspective: she just lost a dear friend (which if you're one of her BFFs means you probably have been friends for a significant amount of time) over something she can't control. So, no one can tell a person the appropriate amount of time that is needed to heal a broken heart, but if your extended hiatus from a friendship ends up losing that friendship in the long run, I can see why the girl in that scenario would be upset. And, if the guy in the scenario is not upset by the loss of a friendship then he should probably question how much of a friend he was to begin with.
Secondly, there's a mature and immature way to approach maintaining distance from a girl who rejected you and civility and decorum matters. It's one thing if you're rejected from some girl you met randomly at a party and you don't have to necessarily see her again. Its a whole other thing to be rejected by a girl at your place of work, in your friend/social group, or even at like a common social gathering place (local gym, church, etc.) and be uncomfortably awkward and petty about it. IRL there are just going to be moments where you have to deal with awkward situations that might even be painful and how you react to them affects other people. This is what I've had to learn as a man because I know so many women who have talked to me about dudes they've turned down at their job, in their friend group, in their DnD party, at the gym who ended up making those spaces hell because they couldn't check and manage their feelings when it came to being in community with them. Or they bail from whatever previously established commitment, leaving the girl to pick up the pieces on whatever project they were working on together.
Once again, both of these points come down to discretion. There's no clear cut answer but I do think maturity requires nuance in these situations.
I'm both shy and awkward as hell to this day but still I had enough courage to directly ask most people out when I liked them. Now it rarely worked but still I was direct about my intentions. What surprised me the most is when some of the girls/women I asked out offered friendship in return and I rejected that they got mad. I had to explain on multiple occasions just like you can reject a relationship I can reject a friendship but they just didn't see it that way for some reason. 🤷🏾♂️
of course you can reject a friendship. but, why wouldn't you want to be friends with someone you initially liked (assuming that the desire to be in a relationship with someone comes from valuing them as a person) ?
yeah, I agree, you can reject friendships just as you can reject relationships. I think that maybe those women felt mad because they thought you only wanted sex/a romantic relationship from them and didn't value them as people that you could build a real friendship with. But of course, it's understandable to reject a friendship with someone who rejected you romantically, and that decision is valid for its own reasons too. But I do know many women who were hurt, because men they thought they were friends with had ulterior motives for sex - perhaps the women you were talking about assumed you were the same. But also, it's great that you found the courage to be direct and ask them out! :D
@@analazovic441
Me personally I can't be friends with somebody that I'm attracted to unless they're not attracted to men. Those romantic/sexual feelings don't just go away because we're friends now so I wouldn't be able to be a good friend to them. It's better for everyone involved to not even bother.
@@angelinaz7292
No it's not like we were friends before or anything. Even at my most awkward it wouldn't take me more than a week upon a meeting someone to get the courage to ask them out so it's not like this was a long-standing friendship that's now over. That's why I was confused when they got mad. You've known me less than a week so it can't hurt that bad that I won't be around anymore.
@@godbear2930 well ita good you know yourself!
I think another factor to take into consideration is how guys can sometimes misinterpret when a girls being friendly as romantic interest, mainly because we aren’t used to compassion ourselves. So they in turn treat the girl the way they’re being treated, doing the things that make them feel wanted romantically, when for a girl it’s most likely just them being friendly.
I’m not defending them, I’m just saying that may be a reason why they act like that.
It is like that! Being friendly with men became viewed as creepy when I transitioned (I'm ftm), before then dudes really responded to me positively.
It ended up with a lot of my male friends catching feelings.
And then I always had complex feelings about it; being flattered _and_ horrified that they liked me, guilty from "lying" to them because I wasn't a girl, and then feelings of disgust that they viewed me as a girl, not to mention feeling terrible that I unintentionally lead them on and have to reject them because I didn't feel anything more than friendship.
Strangely I also felt rejected at those times, because I really wanted to be viewed as just another one of the guys but they liked me because I wasn't.
The irony is then women give you less compassion because they’re being girlfriendzoned for it.
Says a lot about society when you tap into a very real societal problem of men not receiving sufficient validation (which clearly has huge mental health and far reaching societal implications) and yet having to end with a disclaimer "I'm not defending them", doesn't it?
Women also deliberately behave certain way to get male attention. It might sound misogynist but its extremely extremely true. They always have this escape route if things get too tricky. The fact is men play attention game lot more blunt way , often vomiting out his emotional needs in the open which makes them look weak to women (which imo creates this 'nice guy' theory among women , rooted in expectation of gender roles from men i.e men are not supposed to be nice ) , but women play the same game very subtly which does not meet the eye. Why there is no 'Nice girl' theory ?
@@EvilSapphireR it's not a problem tho. You can live with out "positive validation"
Thanks for this. I've been a "nice guy" pretty much my entire life; never really understanding why women feel safe and comfortable around me, but don't think of me "in that way..." I could never talk about my frustration with anyone, for fear of being interpreted as feeling like I'm "entitled to sex". I've never been angry at women; just sad that I've never known how to be the kind of guy a woman wants to be with. It seems so easy for some (most?) men, but somehow not for me... :(
Yes, I've had trauma in my past, and yes, I'm in therapy to deal with it... We'll see how things go...
But Anna defines a nice guy as a person who feels entitled to sex after being nice for a while. That person is a psychopath.
That is not how you describe yourself.
Like you, when chemistry with a person fizzles, I take it out on myself and wonder why this keeps happening. I occasionally ask for feedback (and rarely get any), but don't make demands or issue blame.
I have learnt that when a lady does occasionally use me as a non-romantic boyfriend substitute while she is looking for a man, she was using me, but another reason why she was using me is because my boundaries and limits are non-existent.
Watch some Jordan Peterson Vids. They provide some good tips.
Therapy is bullshit. Stop wasting your money.
@@drivemenuts3011 hey man, speaking as a woman, Jordan Peterson is not the move. Go to therapy
Just treat women like they’re lesser than you and go with what YOU want. Don’t play therapist or sugar daddy to them. Definitely don’t play best friend. Remember, you’re the main character not them. It’s gross to think of it this way, but it’s literally exactly how the world works and why those other guys have better luck with women than you
I’m still getting over my “nice guyness” I think you hit nail on the head when you said it comes from a place of inadequacy finding a A struggle to say the least. but “my-self work” ie using as many resources as possible without using professional has been doing great thing for me… though I know the real work beings when I had someone to call me on my bs
I feel this so much
Im Also in recovery
Ngl, the seeming positive feed back. Omg you are such a great guy!! Was nice but that joy iften turned to ash in the friendzone.
Absolutely i wanted more. Its ok. I didnt get it. Fine now i leave. I dont chill hoping for some table scaps of “friendship” i stopped doing myself dirty
When i stopped compulsively helping everyone and started standing up for myself. Even if its just a difference of opinion.
People started calling bs.
Peter you used to be such a nice guy. Help everyone. Now , why you fighting me
( standing your ground of an opinion is fighting aparently)
They fully wanted their doormat back
Then i got too much for everyone and they buzzed off
And yes there is still a lot of anger to work through
But im doing the work.
Does this resonate woth you too?
you do the right ("nice") thing not because you get something in return, but because its the right thing to do.
Ideally yes
… I feel seen… as a guy who prides himself on being kind and helping others, but having no ability to set boundaries or say no as a result. I don’t expect or want relationships or sex in return, but am trying to earn respect from people because I can’t get it from myself. The only relationship I’ve been in came from my own misunderstanding of feelings and an inability to say no which really left me in an awkward space as my partner was looking for stuff from me that I wasn’t ready to give but had difficulty saying no because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings or be mean. When that relationship ended I was just left with this icky feeling in my mouth that I had somehow dodged a bullet but was scared of ending up in the same place again.
"as a guy who prides himself on being kind and helping others, but having no ability to set boundaries or say no as a result"
this is called codependency :(
@@Sbarali7777 yeah. It’s something I’m trying to work on. But damn is it tough
@@adinjennings5413 ... I feel you bro. Hard core.
I'm there myself
Maybe don't be so quick to accept diagnoses. Being kind and helpful is a good thing. And naturally, it is especially difficult to set boundaries as that kind of person. So give yourself some credit. Something that helped me was to take ownership of that part of myself. Become aware of how you use your kindness and helpfulness and practice doing it with more deliberation. It's helpful if you have people in your life that you trust and value to practice with.
I think those are two separate definitions of nice guys. In my experience, there was a "nice guy" (my former best friend) who wouldn't take no for an answer of us dating, because he was a "nice guy". My friendship was just a "slap in his face". When I finally caved after a year of pressure, due to my youth and naivety at the time, he was not nice at all, never did anything with me, forgot/flaked on my birthday plans, and wanted to leave the country indefinitely the day after we got together. To him I was just a conquest.
Re: "nice guys" who bend over backwards as Anna describe, I've dated those too. He went above and beyond for me in the beginning; he did not pressure me into a relationship, but I found out he expected me to be his mommy/therapist, never expressed his needs, and only treated me passive-aggressively (or throw tantrums) till I figured out what he wanted. I broke up with him quickly; I value communication and respect above all else.
Neither guys were "nice", ultimately.
I agree! I think the second shows the real pandemic of men with poor emotional understanding and self worth. Women, although definitely have their timeless struggles, they often have many women around them.
Where as men with their toxic masculinity never are supported by their mates and therefore have horrible emotional and relationship understanding
@@clementine5053 look into the manosphere or redpill sections of TH-cam. Guys calling for guys to support each other is a common battle cry.
And yes they arnt toxic masculinity. But definitely all about masculinity.
Sorry the guys didn’t treat you well.
As Anna aluded to, what did you get from these interactions. You said one you caved in to the pressure. ( that’s unfortunately still on us, the choices we make)?
@@theliberation9061 Yeah I think the latter guy was the attacker in that relationship though…
@Emma Jean nice guy vs good man vs gigachad PUA
And option 4 mgtow
Omg I can't stop laughing at 0:48 THE TIE! Also I loved this friendly non judgmental approach. You communicate your points excellent!
Real Talk With DnD Flair: Since high school, I've watched pretty much all my guy friends have to deal with girlfriends that constantly wanted the guys to prove themselves. As if, after they've gone on X number of quests to prove their love, she would finally be assured of their dedication. Fast forward some decade(s) down the road, and pretty much all of them have Nice Guy Syndrome.
So, when it comes to dude feeling entitled to rewards after Leveling Up their friendships with various tasks, it's like, dude,... that was literally the situation society taught them when they were first learning relationships. (And since a fair amount of the "tasks" were just manufactured drama to emulate a storybook, it's also not surprising that after a while, these dudes grew up to doubt other people's pain as real.)
Like, a lot of people treat these dating/society/gender conflicts like they just spontaneously appeared or some dude just randomly made a decision to be an entitled doof, but, honestly, everybody's just reacting to the way they were treated from somebody else reacting to the way their were treated by somebody else who was reacting t~
I agree
Wow, that really explains a lot.
If you try to prove yourself to get love you are doing it wrong and being manipulative. If you don't try to prove yourself to get love you are doing it wrong and nobody will go out with you. What's a guy to do but quit dating?
@@DeclinedMercy whatever happened to just being yourself? If people don’t like it then that’s on them.
@@suzanne9464 Just being "yourself" only works for people who are already upstanding personalities. For the rest of us, we have many horrid traits and major turnoffs and past baggage and communication mistakes that need to be worked on.
I've been a nice guy all my life, but that was just my nature. It is the way to be a decent human being. But I never expected anything in return for being nice and still don't. So please don't disparage all nice guys as being manipulative.
There's a huge difference between a "nice guy" and a typical nice guy. There's no worry of people getting you confused if you're just a baseline good person.
You're a Nice Person. The topic here is more like in air-quotes, "Nice Guy".
Totally agree.
You’re describing just simple kindness. “Nice guy” is a very specific kind of person that is pretty easy to see through. If you’re just genuinely a nice friend you won’t be seen in this way. If you don’t view your friendships as transactional, you’re set 👍
Yeah, I think a better term is called for. One that foregrounds transactionality. Because really that's the issue. Transactionality comes in all forms and is understandably problematic if it's couched in niceness.
You know Anna, you are a very insightful person and a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Thank you.
They _only_ finish last when it comes to their emotional needs, self-love, and beliefs about self-worth. *_Only_* that. That's all. Geez.
It does sound a bit like my ex. I don't think he was a person that thought friendships were anything wrong, or that he just hadn't earned their love, but he didn't really enforce boundaries in the relationship (which turned rather codependent), eventually creating resentment and doubts, making him not want to progress further in the relationship, but also being unable to communicate properly and set them in the first place. There was definitely some trauma bonding on my end at the start, I was very emotionally damaged and broken, and didn't think I would ever fall in love, and he was the calm and stable presence that I needed. We were mostly happy for most of the relationship, we just never learned to grow with each other and our needs, and just broke up
What's the best way for a guy like that to break up with a girl like you?
I think I'm in that relationship now, and it needs to end soon, because the codependency and enabling is growing, not decreasing.
@@breakingthemasks A girl like me in what sense? I'd say probably try therapy to get a support system that will help you deal with the aftermath, as well as with the codependency issues. I'd also suggest reassuring yourself that it's probably better to be single than to be unhappy in a relationship, even if it hurts for a while
I feel like someone that is only nice to receive something from the other person shouldn’t be considered nice in the first place . Really hurts the image of people that are actually kind people , because now the real kind people are also labeled as “ nice guys “ because of what the fake nice people do .
Goddamn this is an incredibly well-reasoned and refreshing take. Thanks for taking a really kind and compassionate perspective on this issue. The world needs more of this nuanced content and less of the hate-filled, click-baity bullshit that seems to be so common these days. Subscribed!
I caught your jab /subtle sarcasm. Well said. I love your sense of humor.
In my view the Nice Guy epidemic, and by extension some of the incel movements, is in large part due to the toxic messaging in movies and TV. So many movies set women as a reward for the male lead saving the day or working hard, almost as a given no matter the genre, which is a bad message for young women, but equally toxic for boys and young men trying to figure out how relationships with women are supposed to work. It's confusing and almost no media teaches them how to handle a rejection in a healthy way, despite this being perfectly normal and not a failure or reflection on them as a person.
It's more the feeling of being lead on and existential dread, not just simple rejection for these men. And it's not just rejection from that one person, it's the lack of love from anywhere.
Women are blinded by the fact they can open tinder and get hundreds of matches, while guys get 0.
If all your options went away, you're gonna feel differently.
You mock lonely depressed people, by calling them 1nc31s too
@@Neo.Jordon many people call themselves incels. It isn't mocking to recognize that. And the validation that someone on Tinder wants your attention (usually in a limited, sexual capacity) is not love, community, and barely passes for companionship for most women. This is why we seek emotional intimacy with platonic friendships, because a horny stranger can't possibly meet emotional needs or provide the gaping hole most modern people have as a response to a total lack of community or belonging.
@@AndromedaChace the men on tinder are just people, idk why you view them as only wanting sex...
incel is just another modern buzzword that gets throw around and overused in popular culture nowadays
@@Neo.Jordon I'm pretty sure a woman considered "ugly" gets 0 matches as well.
On apps such as Tinder, where looks are most of what matters, both men and women have it much easier as long as they're good looking.
Thank you. Describes a lot of things I’ve had to work on. And it often gets misinterpreted. It feels nice to be seen in a different light
Dope topic. Starting to see more content pop up on this topic here and there. Haven’t seen anything on how to tell the “nice guy” from the guys that may have developed a crush throughout a friendship and/or guys that always had a crush but decided to get to know the person first before trying to move to that type of relationship. I feel like there’s some nuance there that could be discussed. Might not be easily distinguishable in every situation.
Thissss
The thing that separates nice guys from guys that developed feelings is the sense of entitlement that is associated with nice guys. It’s one thing to develop feelings for some one but respect their crush even if they get rejected, but from what I’ve seen some dudes get angry and toxic when their feelings aren’t reciprocated. That’s the defining characteristic of an ice guy
This is so, SO constructive. I'm a chick who's always had some sort of knack for both attracting and also helping encourage growth/change in insecure aggressive young men, and I've spent like fifteen years trying to help pipe up about the humanizing etiological factors leading to the toxic behaviors these guys can have. Most discourse on this topic devolves so easily and lazily into just crapping all over them and treating them like a different species. Actually FIXING anything requires spreading information like THIS.
You're providing a really great service here, not just in general by providing wisdom for people broadly, but especially by addressing -- SO diplomatically and accessibly -- issues that aren't talked about enough, and which hurt groups of people that many others feel uncomfortable supporting and advocating for. That's really important work toward balance in the world. You're the Avatar of psychology lol.
You absolutely rock. I'm so glad I found this channel.
For the vast majority of guys, if they "don't do enough", or "show up in these very specific ways", then it's very hard to form relationships with women. Men don't get the privilege of just doing their own thing and waiting for women to approach. We have to be proactive, and we have to go about it in a very specific way. And this way varies depending on the woman we're trying to get. It's literally something we have to "figure out" on the fly with every women we decide to pursue. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but for the vast majority of guys, it's simply not an option to believe that "you are enough", and hope women will see that. More often than not, we have to go WAY out of our way to SHOW women that we're worth it.
This is what im struggling with now, im not even on social media anymore and im comparing myself to other guys thinking i have to do something more to be noticed. Which obviously none of that is ok
Pretty much - the claim that women will flock to you if you simply have a winning personality just doesn't cut it. You have to be serious about pursuing a relationship with a woman and you got to prove to her that you can be a great partner.
Its kinda funny since I kinda did annoy the guy I like into liking me, that sht worked for me (i acknowledge if it was the other way around it’d be labeled as creepy). But seeing the other side of the coin gives me a new perspective on how much guys do suffer. I hope y’all get the love you deserve, please be gentle with yourselves.
These type of comments are like what I saw a ton of in the comment sections of TH-camr "Roma Army". 🤔 She doesn't have the best videos, but the camaraderie & discussions in the comments help me know I'm not alone... Like you guys help in this thread. 😊
@@theliberation9061 Wow I have been struggling with loneliness lately and I was thinking the same thing. "I thought I was a genuine good person with great attributes so why am I having this problem." What you just said really hit home, can't believe there are great men out there struggling with the same, I thought I was alone.
I AM TRIGGERED 🥺🥺. WOW THIS WAS ENLIGHTENING
I think it's great you added that little shot at the people who take advantage of the "nice guy", can't forget the people who gleefully take advantage of vulnerable, unstable or unhappy people.
Can I just say that I love you?❤️ You are like a big sister I never had. Thank you 💕
I thought a nice guy was the opposite of a bad boy or player.
Someone who is nice, kind and lovable 🥺
This is the most nuanced conversation I've ever seen on this topic. Thanks Anna :D
That fire at the end!! Burnnn🔥🔥🔥👌🏼
I feel that in general men always need to earn a woman's love, rather than be intrinsically lovable (so to speak), whereas the societal ideal is that a woman is inherently deserving of love, with the ones that work harder towards being likable, being the ones who get more love.
If that makes any sense
Nah it makes sense, we do need to “earn” their love while they just get it automatically.
Me, als a woman don't feel like I deserve love. Yes, society may tell us that a woman has to be won but a woman to become the "prize" she needs to adhere to several different social norms or otherwise she is just mediocre and fades into the background. Therefore I think all sexes suffer from too little self-love
Me a woman, grew up knowing no love. Not from family (blood related or otherwise) not from friends etcetera. So that's wrong assumption #1. I have a boyfriend/man/ father of my soon to be child who doesn't need to earn my love i love him just the way he is. Sure he aint perfect, but who is? We motivate eachother to be the best version of ourselves with respect and love.
@@theliberation9061 Well, I would suggest that I'm actually a woman who stands out in certain ways (due to my style and my past) and I'm alone and happy to be single actually. I wouldn't mind to have a relationshp but I rather stay alone than be in a bad relationship.
Please, do not think there is a formular that makes a woman or man more loveable than others. We have the right to be loved from the very first day we are formed and that ultimately starts with ourselves. I do believe that the very difference that makes us stand out is self-love and healthy confidence
@@theliberation9061 I truly understand the frustration but in the end I think that we often stand in our own way and sabotage good connections. Therefore there must be some sort of wound, which can be healed in various ways, one being therapy. Plus I don't want to tell you that you need to love yourself first in order to be loved. That's a really toxic mantra because it would mean people with chronic mental health problems cannot be loved, which is obviously not the case. But I do believe that if we consistently work on ourselves, the chances to allow a person into our lives that is good for is are higher.
I feel you about being alone in your mid 20s :) and I'm glad to hear that you found a wonderful partner. It sounds like you are really reflected. Perhaps you're not there where you want to be confident and self-love-wise but it seems like you are on a path towards it and therefore I don't believe that meeting your now partner is that much of a coincedence!
Loved this one. Keep up the great content :D
I'm so glad I didn't turn this off after 2 minutes of objecting loudly in my head. Good insight, thanks.
So emotionally intelligent, as always.
Nice lighting too.
I’m very thankful and grateful to know, (like in the first clip) that a “lets just be friends) is a covert rejection.
Many guys take the offer as legitimate and then try to qualify for said girl by doing exactly what you just put in the first clip, like the emotional investment.
@@theliberation9061 how is it manipulative to tell someone i'm only interested in friendship with, that i only want to be friends? that's honesty which is literally the opposite of manipulation...
@@Sbarali7777 because you cannot have a healthy friendship with someone who is enamored with you. Just don't try to be friends. You don't have to be friends with them. Whether you realize it or not, you are using them for companionship while ignoring their feelings, creating an unhealthy and unbalanced power dynamic.
Why do you think nice guys believe niceness will get them sex, affection and attention?
Because that's what society tells us from the age of zero.
Love your background this episode, Anna and team!
This really sets me into retrospection. Thank you for that.
my first boyfriend was like this, while we were in a relationship I thought it was so amazing how he was there for me and went out of his was to accommodate my bad mental health ! and then when we were on summer vacation when I was 14, he r*ped me. I was so secretive of it because it just didn't seem like something he would do, it felt like he was entitled to a couple mistakes for how well he treated me but we broke up all the same.
The next relationship I got into I felt so guilty for never telling his new girlfriend what he had done to me but I found out a few years later that his girlfriend was really emotionally abusive to him. It didn't make sense to me how someone who had ruined my body could be controlled so easily but this completely explains it. Its been almost ten years and he's apologised, I'm learning to heal, thank you Anna, for being a piece of my journey to recovery and learning to love myself bit by bit
Sorry you went through that. I hope you keep healing! I'm still on that journey too.
Anna has a good point, some guys expect sex/relationships just because they are nice. The problem is that they are ONLY nice. If you are a nice guy, but you also flirt, make yourself attractive, seduce, tease, banter, say no, build a connection, etc and are good at it, you'll less likely to be friendzoned, at most you'll be rejected. Nice guys also fear rejection, which is why they just try to be nice, because it's "safe".
When I was younger I got friendzoned because I didn't (know how to) do the things mentioned above (seduce, etc.). Rejection is part of life, it's just a matter of getting used to it, you'll find the more desensitized to it you are, the less you'll be rejected.
You literally never miss Anna!
I’m so glad you keep making videos like this. We live in a world with so much unconsciousness that bringing these issues to lie to one at a time allows us to awaken to the world around us instead of just subconsciously acting with patterns of this functionality. So much respect.
“Maybe just maybe are you identifying with someone’s core wound of not being enough and trauma bonding like hell with them”
me: uhm ma’am i --
edit: did ma'am Anna Akana like my comment??????? im gunna die. She helped me overcome a lot of stuff after my break up. SHE A SAVIOR.
Yeah I've dealt with this from the opposite end, and used to be one of these....more so for relationships not sex. As I got older, I realized there's no point wasting time trying to improve friendships to hopefully have them one day turn into more; also, I wouldn't want to hurt people by making them feel like they were used for poor intentions. I think if you're interested in someone early on, you should let them know within a somewhat short period of time or try flirting or at least hint at it and see where it gets you. If it gets you no where, just find someone else for relationship or w/e purposes and remain friends with the other person if possible (I'd recommend only trying to stay good friends with them if you feel you can get over your attraction with them...I am aware some people are unable to do this). Just don't waste your time praying on something that may or may not happen ...or else you'll regret wasting months or years on something that will never come to be . Great vid as always
This is a really great way to look at it!
I really appreciate how you went into the “why” and channelled your distaste through understanding and sympathy rather than resentment.
Why don’t we be more introspective?
Men and women can behave nicely with each other. Yes either man or woman would behave like this hoping for something in return. It’s fine it’s normal. What’s not normal from BOTH in the interaction would be a) being clingy or b) stringing the other person along. So no you don’t need to change nice guys. You can’t control others’ behavior but you sure can control your own. It’s gonna keep happening. So learn to be transparent and set the record straight.
As a guy I appreciate the empathy, but some people are just sinister tbh. Also, some guys really ARE nice, but also want to get it, may not necessarily be that they are acting nice to get it.
Human psychology varies wildly from individual to individual so the example she gives here is valid, but I'd look at it as one of many variations.
Truth is truth. 👍
Agreed with both points. I came to realise that my "Nice Guy" fiend (oops, typo = accurate Freudian slip so i'll leave it there) was gaslighting me and intentionally isolating me from other people (classic narcissistic traits) and also started "negging" me, so i cut ties with him (thanks lockdown!). I have other guy friends who are genuinely nice, and also want to get it, but they don't resort to using emotional manipulation like "Nice Guys" do, so that's the main point of difference in my experience. Those genuine nice guys respect you when you say no and will keep looking elsewhere because they respect themselves enough to do so too. They don't double-down, make you feel like prey, or throw an entitled tanty like the 'Nice Guys' do...
The more conscious we are of our own boundaries, feelings, and self-worth the easier it becomes to discern the difference between the two, and to also spot the red flags in advance.
On point ❤️ Anna you’re the best!
This is probably one of the most informing videos I've ever seen
As the nice guy that literally just wanted to be friends with the lovely lady after our relationship didnt work. I can confirm this definitely goes both ways. Cheers for breaking it down real good. Learned a little somethin
I'm a nice guy because I have a problem setting boundaries especially when it's with people I like. I start to feel like I'm just being used for my niceness and it breeds resentment that I feel I'm being taken advantage of tbh. When I try to look up info about nice guys all I find are articles written by women that essentially say I'm a horrible person and I should love doing everything that someone asks of me. Essentially these women would say "If you are a nice guy then you should just be nice and don't complain. If a girl ask you for something just do it and be nice.", which just makes me feel like I can't really speak on the topic?
if you want to talk to someone you like try not to start out in the friend phase. its going to feel like you're being taken advantage of bc you aren't making any moves to be more than friends.
This isn’t necessarily being a ‘nice guy’.
In therapy we referred to this as a ‘helping syndrome’ , where you compensate with being useful to someone.
The root of that issue may be ‘conditional love’ in childhood. I reccomend looking up that term!
It’s crappy when it feels like people are taking advantage of us but ultimately it’s our jobs to speak up for ourselves and lay out boundaries.
Don't expect people to read your mind, just communicate with them. That'd be the first step😊
@@user-lu2yk8iz4o Not sure what that has to do with being a nice guy. I told a chick I liked her and her response was "I see..." and then that's it. Not sure why you insist on having me putting myself in such a vulnerable position, but I've done it before
Your videos are really on point. Society NEEDS these words to change many bad dynamics that were created over time.
This girl! I just discovered her channel. Ha! good for you. Keep winning!
You should have “daddy” as an alternate squarespace code at checkout
"Trauma bonding" is a new phrase I wish didn't apply to me 😣
My relationships for 100% better after I learned not to trauma bond at the start of dating. Now is just a starting point, something better is ahead when you change how you realty to people to be stage appropriate and slowly disclose relevant vulnerabilities.
Thank you for this Ana😁
As always, your videos are eye-opening and mind blown. 🥰🥰🥰
This stereotype (and the men who do this sort of thing) makes things 100x harder for guys who genuinely want to be friends with a woman they know isn't interested in a sexual relationship with them.
It's funny. Then you people describe that then nice but wanting sex in return is bad but you go give that sex to abusers and criminals. Double standard
I used to be a hardcore "nice guy". It took me moving out of my parents' house and living on my own for years to break out of that mess, to realize what was causing these behaviors/feelings in me and why it was bad. Thank god I was able to move past that.
Anna, your editor is fantastic! Love your videos! 💙
Thank you for your perspective. I always love your content
i love you sm anna , been watching you for year you’re like my mentor
There are plenty of nice guys our there that are not damaged per se or expecting sex in return for whatever. Just want to find someone else that actually loves us back without wanting something in return.
What you said is very insightful
Ugh love your content. Love your deep thinking :)
I think they forget to tell is when women hit the wall they go back to all the nice guys they ditched. But hey nice guys out there just be your self man these ladies will come for you in due time don't try to change for the society dating rules specially if that change never makes the relationship last long. But all in all learn to stand up for you self and know your self worth. I also like how just being nice is a motive now instead of hey that person likes to help people for fun why think to much of it. I know girls do this a lot and that's where the whole nice guy syndrome tend to differ cause all of this happens cause the girls think way to fast with their emotions when a guy helps them out when no other guy does. I think that's something girls tends to forget.
All being a nice guy means is that you haven't passed her looks threshold
Im a nice guy, Im single, staying single, I don't want dramas or anything just friends to count on and not get used.
Anna, thanks for an insightful and, dare I say accurate, take on last-finishing “nice guys”.
Finally someone who talks about nice guys without using the word SIMP
I couldn’t agree more with everything you said, through out my years I’ve met several “nice guys”
Spot on, thank you! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽😆
I appreciate the mature look into core issues surrounding the "nice guy" archetype. I think your compassionate approach will help more guys be self aware of these types of toxic behaviors (sense of entitlement, manipulative behavior), many are probably not aware they are doing it. Having a sister and seeing how "nice guys" acted extremely weird and being door mats for my sister, basically opened my eyes at a early age lol.
Well, there is still societal pressure on men to be men. I think we should avoid associating nice guys with weakness. I want to be myself rather than a guy who is worried that they are "too nice".
Also I agree you shouldn't have to repay a friendship or niceness with sex but remember to reciprocate somehow. I have had plenty of girls come to me for comfort or reassurance after things like breakups or divorces, thanking me for being the only one to listen and being the only one they could trust, and then just leaving when they felt better. I was left feeling emotionally used.
100%
This is the other side of the coin that never gets talked about. Many women, both knowingly or unknowingly, use men's desperation and desire to be helpful to create a very toxic and one-sided 'friendship' where they get the man to help them with a bunch of stuff while rarely or never being there for the man when he needs or wants something. And this dumps gasoline on the "Nice Guy's" fire. It both increases his feelings of being unworthy of love and makes him more angry at women because he feels used. After this has happened a few times, he begins feeling more bitter and more entitled which makes their Nice Guy Syndrome go from kinda bad to really bad.
The question might be then, why have you let them use you after a breakup for comfort if there wasn't a strong friendship there in the first place?
I've totally been there too, but for me it was because I wasn't comfortable setting boundaries and I was giving too much, which is very much a nice guy thing (or people pleaser, as someone else said, may be a better way to put it). I was being nice because I hoped for more from them OR because I was too scared of saying no and losing what was at best a distant friendship.
reciprocity is the key - if she doesn't bring anything to your interaction she's a liabilty, not a friend. This goes for relationships and friendships alike.
My husband was an ex-nice guy. He got counseling and left his abusive household. What was bad was when I tried to set boundaries when we dated he took that as I did not care about him. He went back for a time to his abusive ex and that’s when he realized he needed counseling. After he got some healing we dated again but sometimes it creeps in when he cleans the whole house but then thinks he doesn’t do enough.
Can always count on you to explore sensitive topics with nuance ♥️
Woah🥴 looking good Anna😍