Exploring the Real Mulan’s Non-Chinese Origin
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- There isn't any evidence that Mulan is based on a real person. But the Mulan, as imagined in the original source material, Ballad of Mulan most likely has Xianbei origin.
🎶MUSIC by Epidemic Sound:
www.epidemicsound.com
🎉SUPPORT US ON🎉
Decide future contents and other rewards on Patreon:
/ coolhistorybros
One time donations on Kofi:
ko-fi.com/cjleung
🎥PLAYLISTS🎥
Cool Chinese History (By release)
• Cool Chinese History
Qin Dynasty Origin
• Qin Dynasty Origin
Hundred Schools of Thoughts:
• Hundred Schools of Tho...
📚SOURCES:
Mulan: Five Versions of a Classic Chinese Legend, with Related Texts, 2010, Shiamin Kwa & Wilt L. Idema.
From Tribal Confederation to Empire: The Evolution of the Rouran Society, July 2005, Kradin Nikolay
Clarification on the location of Yan Mountain (Khangai)
old.pep.com.cn/xiaoyu/yuwenboo...
English Translation of the Ballad of Mulan:
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transl...
🖥WEBSITE & SOCIAL🖥
Facebook: / cool-history-bros-1028...
Twitter: / cjleung_dst
When Disney eventually release the live-action Mulan movie, I will be putting it under my historical magnifying glass. Comment and suggest what you want me to look into. The weaponry, army organization, political situation or what else?
Costuming! They got a non-Chinese person to head up costume design for the film so I would love your take on what they got right and wrong...
Disney should really have gotten more Chinese creatives behind the scenes, especially in leadership roles!
As Chinese historian Zhu Weizheng used to say, history is like a house, whose who live in it cannot see it from the outside. That's why it is important for non-chinese to examine Chinese history too.
Personally, I don't see an issue with non-Chinese heading the costume design. We should judge people by the merit of their work. But rest assured that I will judge the heck out of it.
Oh yeah, very patriotic of you to support a movie greenlight by the CCP.
Not to be a smart ass but only the rulers of the Northern Wei and their military were Xianbei(mongolic) tribesmen most of whom adopted Chinese language and culture. But the general population they conquered were Han-Chinese majority.
Fun Fact: Xianbei and Shiwei is the modern pronunciation but in old Chinese and in Xianbei language its pronounced Serbet/Serwet. And is still used by Mongolians in the form of "Chiuud" like their offical name today Mongol Chiuud which can be found in Tang Dynasty records as Menggu-Shiwei.
The Xianbei who did not become Chinese are the modern day Monguor people, while modern Mongolians come from a closely related group from the Rouran(Nirun) and later Khitan and Mongols etc
@@mongolchiuud8931 but her name and behavior in the ballad don't fit Han customs.
Well, i suppose napolean was not fench, hitler was not german, and stalian wasn't russian.
Lol, in case other people don't get it: Napoleon was Corsican, Hitler was Austrian and Stalin was Georgian.
Yup, they were not from those countries.
That's true, they ain't born as french, German, and Russian. Btw, technically stalian wasn't Russian at all, he neither was a ethnic-russian nor a Russian nationality.
Very well said ! Bravo.
wow great sarcasm
I have to say, it would be interesting to see Mulan as Xianbei and get a look into the lives of the people themselves.
From my point of view, China itself is like the equivalent of unified European nations with diverse populations with similar or differen languages. Chinese as a terms of identity is some way like the terms as European. You can be Spanish European, Italian European etc etc just as in China there are Han Chinese （汉族）, Hui Chinese（回族）, Manchu Chinese （满族）, Mongol Chinese （蒙古族）, Korean Chinese (朝鲜族） etc etc
Imagine a surviving Roman empire that didn't broken apart into irrecoverable pieces while instead transformed into a sort of cohesive civilization+identity for all European.
Han Chinese will be like the Latin Roman while those Cantonese speaking Han Chinese / Hokkien speaking Han Chinese are like Spanish/ French.
That is pretty acurate analogy and lot easier for European and people in North America wrap their head around. I can use that...
If Europe become unified, China would be happy because now the USA will turn it's aggressive attention on Europe and try to start a war with them too
Good enough analogy for westerners or foreigners
Cantonese and Hokkien Chinese are closer to ancient speaking Chinese. On the other hand, Mandarin Chinese is a new Chinese dialect, evolved during the Ming Dynasty and Qing Dynasty.
As an American, this actually very helpful analogy. I've had someone try to explain this to me before, but they explained it in a way that I couldn't really wrap my head around, but this makes perfect sense. Thank you!
From generic perspective, Mulan may not be from Han ethnic group. But no one in China dare to say he/she is generically 100% Han after more than thousands years of ethnic immigrations and cross-ethnic marriages. Need to point out, Chinese people seldom consider generic purity as criterion to judge if one is Chinese or not--you are a Chinese if you speak Chinese, you follow Confucianism and most importantly you consider yourself a Chinese “son of dragon”.
Exactly. Cultural recognization>Ethnic recognization for Han Chinese people.
Please dont tell me your one of those people who claims Kublai khan as chinese
Just want to point out that according to Confucius himself, as long as you follow Chinese culture, even if you are barbarian you can be considered to be sinic. And even if you are Han but do not subscribe to Han culture, you are an outsider
@@MrByambaa602 Depends on the era he lived in. If Mongolia was not part of Chiha at that time then he‘s not Chinese. But in modern days if he’s from Inner Mongolia region of China then he'd be Mongolian but also Chinese. Simple as that.
@@christinem4266 was not talking to you yo dumb shit. Who doesnt know when Kublai khan lived you little shit...
You can say she's not han Chinese, but she is Chinese
And not Han at her time. After Tang Xianbei people almost completely assimilated themselves into Han people.
She is more like Mongol ancestor.
Is Mulan saying herself "I'm Chinese"? No..... Just Chinese want the answer say yes...
@@user-ii9pl6fe7n I'm not Han Chinese but I‘m Chinese. What's the problem？
@@angnguyenha7203 Mongol ancestor fighting against the nomadic to protect China? Nice logic you have there.
Lol, "the awkwardly named." More like the awkwardly translated haha "The Female Mulan Joins the Army in Place of her Father" or 《雌木蘭替父從軍》 doesn't sound awkward in Chinese, it's just that classical Chinese doesn't need a lot of words to describe things in detail like English does. In fact 「替父從軍」 or 「代夫從軍」 are both really common ways to say "join the army in one's father's place." But notice how much longer the English is than the Chinese. Also the use of 「雌」, is a call back to the ballad's famous last line: 「安能辨我是雌*雄」 (who can tell if I'm female or male?) . So yeah in English it's awkward to say "female Mulan," but those familiar with the ballad in Chinese would understand the reference.
But yeah, everything I've read about the ballad supports your claim that Mulan, if she existed, was probably 鮮卑 (Xian bei), or at the very least the poem was based on Xian Bei women who were taught to fight and ride horses. I think this came out after you posted this video, but anthropologists out of UCLA discovered Xian Bei women's remains in northern China and determined that they were definitely taught to fight.
Can you imagine going to an English theater and saying, "I would like 2 tickets to The Female Mulan Joins the Army in Place of her Father". Borat did a good job with joke title like that though.
In English you would say “2 tickets to FMJAPHF”.
@@goldcherries I am an American. Even if the title of a movie is long we do not use the whole thing when buying tickets. There are many episodes of Spider-Man so the complete titles of each are long. Rarely would two different episodes be playing at the same theater. We just ask for tickets for Spider-Man. And we don’t title things in such a silly way. I am surprised that they have to indicate gender even though there is a name. The part about her father is redundant because the why of the story would be in the first page, if not paragraph of it or the first ten minutes or so of the movie.
Sounds like the original tale might not have been written in Classical Chinese. Maybe not even a logographic language since there are only a few.
@@conniead5206 Well, the original ballad, 《木蘭辭》 appeared in the Northern Wei (386-534CE) and the play ”The Female Mulan Joins the Army in Place of her Father" was written and performed in the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644CE). While many Chinese speakers would refer to both as classical Chinese (文言文), sinologists would consider both to be "Literary Chinese." However, despite belonging to the same category the language used would be very different seeing as 1. one is a ballad/poem and the other is a play meant to be performed on a stage and 2. language is constantly evolving. That is why classical/literary Chinese is very difficult to learn, because once you grasp the Chinese of, say, the Ming dynasty, you then have to relearn how certain characters were used in other earlier dynasties. Also, by the Northern Wei, characters were already logographic, they were already using the official script (logographic characters) in the Han dynasty which was the dynasty prior to the establishment of the Northern Wei. Pictographic Chinese characters were created long before that, if you're curious look up oracle bones of the Shang Dynasty.
It’s like the debate of “Who is Chinese?” I’m Chinoy (Chinese Filipino) but I was raised in America, so Mainlanders, Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, et al. see me as American even though our family kept the traditions from the Imperial Era.
The Ballad of Mulan, is still an inspiration even for my half Irish-American nieces. Even if she isn’t technically Han Chinese, it’s a source of pride for the whole Chinese Diaspora and in my opinion, something that unites us. The fact that Disney took it mainstream makes content and conversations like this possible all over the World and not just in People of Chinese Descent.
Cool. But a Mongolian watching a Xianbei girl being labelled as Chinese and her original character's enemies being Xianbei as well is kinda weird. The same weird feeling comes from watching that Matt Damon flick with Great wall of China. They just straight up depicted my ancestors as some sort of aliens or monsters
@@tselmegenkhtor988 Chinese history has never been defined by ethnicity. Just like when the Mongol Empire attacked the Jin Dynasty, the people guarding the Great Wall were actually Jurchens and Khitans (Tungus and Mongols). This is not so much a war between China and Mongolia as it is a civil war This is not a matter of labels. Xianbei, Khitan, Southern Huns, Jurchens, and most Mongolians have actually given up their nomadic customs, integrated into China, and chosen to become Chinese.
Mulan is not Han Chinese, but she might be Xianbei Chinese.
Northern Wei adapted and learnt Chinese culture and languages, even changing them names into Chinese, the Emperor of Wei might be seriously pissed if one called him a non-Chinese.
The only important matter: more than 90% Xianbei descendants are Han today, the rest loyal to China.
@@charleschoy1392 yes，xianbei is one part of han now
@@yingqin7256 also Xiognu, GokTurkic, Rouran, Jin, Uyghur, Kyrgyz, Mongol hahaha
@@yingqin7256 Genghis Khan is china
Xianbei and Hunnu was Porto Mongol. Period.
The ethnic Xianbei was a Sinicized Mongolic nation. Mulan was not Chinese just like British Queen is not British with German ancestors, or Donald Trump is not an American with a German grandfather. I can't imagine you have to make a video to seriously discuss this.
ppl want to act smart
Xianbi has nothing to do with the Chinese. The Xianbei are mostly Mongols and Turks. Altai language.
@nrepeatable3459 Turks my ass. Modern archeological studies have proved that the Xianbei were Mongolic, not Turkic. Mongolic peoples are not necessarily Mongols, just like the Germanic peoples are not necessarily Germans. Of course, the Xianbei has nothing to do with Chinese, just like the houses of normandy and plantagenet have nothing to do with Britain, or the Macedonians have nothing to do with Greece. You must be a genius🤣🤣
Not sinicized. They spoke own Languages
@@Ray-bn5qv Which is why the Xianbei language had completely disappeared around 6th century?
Well, Mulan may be not Han Chinese, while there are over 50 ethnic groups in China and all of them are Chinese.
I mean it changed in the past 50 years. Manchu are nowadays concidered to be chinese. Before they where concidered to be something totally different.
@@lemonde3415 can you enlighten me?
my grandparents are Manchu (me as well in fact) and they never told me at one point they were not Chinese?
@@jul5126 There wasn't even a modern concept of 'Country' for Chinese before 1912~ish so he's partially right.
Agree. And she is a Chinese actually.
@@chase5177 nah even when China was during dynasties, the emperors already called this land "country".
I'm glad that many people knows the difference between a Chinese and a Han Chinese.
It's Han, not Han Chinese. The "Chinese" is often added in English because the word is so bound with "Han" in the English language that people feel uncomfortable saying just "Han".
@@mnbr6884 Fine, whatever.
@@mnbr6884 is that like saying American-British?
@@samuraijackoff5354 No, neither of those are ethnicities.
@@mnbr6884 Shit you are right
Mulan would be considered Chinese because her values are clearly confucian. Piety to her parents, loyalty to the country, and self sacrificing spirit. This is why her story reverberated in Chinese history.
My thoughts exactly
Very well said.
Those values are in a lot of asian cultures not only china🤦🏻♀️
@@SmthAbout.Money.SmellsLikeLove those Asian cultures haves been heavily influenced by China, don't take those values for granted as some natural-born characters.
@@dannykwan7581 not true not all of them the Mongols and the Turks had and have also those values
If people want a good Chinese woman warrior that is also HISTORICAL, then they should look at one of Liu Bei's wives, Lady Sun. Daughter of Sun Jian and Lady Wu, and sister of Sun Ce and Sun Quan. She was so ferocious that even Liu Bei and his men feared her and would very often find herself carrying a sword and leading the elite group of women warriors. Why Disney never based an Asian female character on her, I will never understand.
I was also wondering if Disney had gotten for the design of Yao from Fan Kuai or Zhang Fei until I discovered that the character designer got it from a bulldog, which vastly disappointed me.
Because Mulan is waaaay more popular than any if the people that you have named. Why do you expect Disney, a western company, know about some Liu Bei's wife? I bet the average chinese don't even know them. Its like expecting a chinese company know about the existence of Boudica or Nakano Takeko.
Unlike Mulan, SunShangXiang was not in battlefield. Also there is no much morale regading the story of Sun
@@helsinki How Mulan became Waaay more popular was because of exposure to the media in the first place. Without the first Mulan animated movie there is no way it will became popular as it is today, I'm sure you understand that. The point he is making is not for the Disney to specifically pick Sun Shang Xiang but to pick someone who existed historically. Lady Sun Shang Xiang may not be on the battlefield herself unlike Mulan but She existed.
Throughout Chinese history there are a lot of real female warrior who are good fighter or a commander type figure that every day Chinese may does not know but will certainly appreciate if their story is adapted to the visual media. In fact many historical figures that are starting to get well known in China recently are actually became popular because of Chinese period drama.
The guy didn't expect Disney to know about a specific figure but he expect that by knowing about Mulan and all that, Disney should have wanted to try to do research about real Chinese female warrior along the way possibly to draw inspiration from to create, i dont know, the live-action Mulan sequel maybe?
@@hrs.ai2018 Unlike Mulan Sun Shang Xiang existed. There is not much moral regarding the story of Lady Sun but that's why we have creative writers, to make it up and adding things.
Or why not just an actual real Chinese princess since they made Mulan apart of the Disney Princess lineup? I’m pretty sure there’s some famous Chinese princesses that did something or they probably could have made one up inspired by someone.
Just to point out, they never called them “Northern Wei”, “Eastern Wei” or “Western Wei”. They all called themselves “Wei”. The directional description was added by later people, who tried to differentiate different regimes having the same name. The reason why even the earliest “Northern Wei” has “Northern” in its name is because there had been a “Wei” regime during the 3-kingdoms era roughly 100 years before.
Also, I do see “Chinese” more in a cultural way, than an ethnical way. Many ethnics merges into Chinese. The modern Han ethnics is never a single ethnic in the history. Once enemy ethnics may merge to one after hundreds of years, under the Chinese culture. And this happened for so many times through the thousands of years Chinese history. The majority of the ethnics (Xianbei, Qiang, Routan, etc.) around 500CE in this video are very likely to have their descendants nowadays identified as Han Chinese, just because they had merged with Chinese culture. Ethnically, modern Han Chinese is really a blend of all the ethnics who lived in this land before. The most pure “Han Chinese” from the Han Dynasty probably only may live at the very south part of China, if only there are still such people existing. Ancient Chinese’s nation concept is different from the European’s nationalism concept. And I don’t think this video presents it accurately. After all, this video seems to me like, again, looking at China in the western way from the outside, and not really understanding it from inside out.
Or could be, they see it more insightfully, from Genuine Original Chinese perception.
Descendent of one of those rare, near extinct south china originals here **waves**
Where Quite possibly all male ancestors in recent centuries/millenias.... could write.
Also, I don't discount that western alignment's possibility.
Even if historically...... China did go downhill from (xianbei)Tang Dynasty policy implementation on.
@@affalee8216 Errr... I’m not sure I understand what you tried to say...
@@mengyangliang6388 basically, this vid not wrong.
Regardless of how masses from north china think.
Also hakka people.
ALL xianbei related one way or other.
After repeated propaganda, or soft and hard tactics..... you all actually believe claim from xianbeis themselves..... to actually be han chinese(not duh).
You verify not from claimants with stake, themselves.
But those on solid footing, to affirm.
Sorry is it still too abstract ?
So called Han Chinese, is generic " so-called " han Chinese.
NOT simply..... Han Chinese .
@@affalee8216 Some of your sentences are still quite confusing to me. But I think I get the major point. Let’s put it this way. Just talking about Xianbei ethnics. They existed around 300 to 600 AD, and then disappeared in the history records and books. But they didn’t disappear in the history. They just got merged in to Chinese, and got recognized as Chinese thereafter. So “Han Chinese” in the history is a changing concept. The “Han Chinese” now might be ethnically so different from the “Han Chinese” 2000 years ago. But the culture is what passed along through the thousands of years. I’m from northern China, and might even have Xianbei ancestry or maybe some other dozens of ethnics that lived in the same land and merged into Chinese. So who knows...
@@mengyangliang6388 ysah i know what you said.
Point i'm trying to share....... lots of assumptions you have as "Han Chinese"....... is unlikely acceptable to original ancient chinese.
There's alot watered down....... or misaligned in version you interpret.
Although I understand people're trying to make do in life.
Manner of applying advanced methods from Chinese Civilisation....... not correctly applied..... today.
Just a heads up .
Ah snap. All this time when i was thinking of Northen Wei I was thinking of Cao Cao after the Three kingdoms. Untill the 8 princes came in mind and turn it into the 16 kingdoms
to be fair the kindom CaoCao ruled over is also called wei, they even have the same character. Northen Wei just came later in time so to differentiate they add "northen" it's not your fault. Chinses history of this period is confusing AF.
Mulan is Xianbei, most historians from China had already concluded this, but most Xianbeis today have become Chinesefied and forgotten their ancestral origins. Most Xianbeis became completely Chinese, even way more culturally Chinese than average Chinese by the time of Sui and Tang dynasties, the emperors of Sui and Tang were Chinese- Xianbei mixed, many of their empresses, important generals and strategists were from Xianbei origin as well since Xianbeis were mostly from royal military class during earlier dynasty so they had higher chance of receiving better education.
The thing is, there are no pure nomads, it’s possible that a lot of Xianbei people were probably not Xianbei a few generations before, Here, the recent genetic studies shows that peoples of ancient Mongolia are extremely mixed both paternally and maternally, a inter racial mixing ground between ancient north East Asians, Caucasians and Hans(East Asians) www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420313210
@@hwasiaqhan8923 The nomads expanded their ethnic groups by absorbing others because of low birthrate, humans were always their most important resource, the early Xianbeis not only accepted Chinese who escaped from south due to wars and criminal punishment, but also conducted constant raids to capture peoples from surrounding regions.
@@XuerLi Yap, during Yuwen Tai’s reign, Yuwen Tai forced Han nobles and soldiers to adopt Xianbei surnames, Han soldiers would adopt the surnames of their Xianbei commanders. The Li clan that later founded the Tang Dynasty was gifted the Xianbei surname “Daye” by Yuwen tai and the later historians (particularly Japanese) took this out of context and claimed Li clan were xianbei because they were originally named Daye before changing to “Li”, but actually it’s the opposite, they were changed from Li to Daye and switched back to Li after another Han noble family established the Sui dynasty.
@@hwasiaqhan8923 Not all soldiers, but only high-ranking military officers and civil officials were given Xianbei names such as Gao Jiong became Dugu Jiong, Yang Zhong became Puliuru Zhong and it was optional, and most of them changed back to Chinese names after the end of Northern Zhou as Sui dynasty encouraged de-xianbeification, Puliuru Jian's sons some had Xianbei names some didn't have, such as Yang Yong whose Xianbei name was xiandifa, Yang Guang's nickname Amo was also likely some xianbei word. As for Li Yuan's case it was highly controversial, Li Yuan's clan claimed several Chinese Li clans at the same time included Laozi and several others which made people suspicious of their identity, and the Tang royalties were very pro-Xianbei ethnically even though they were extremely well- versed in Classical Chinese cultures, most of their empresses were of Xianbei origin such as empress Dou, empress Zhangsun. And Li Shimin's closest subordinates during his younger days were mostly related to Xianbeis as well, such as Zhangsun Wuji, Yuchi Jingde, Dugu Yanyun, Yuwen Shiji, Gao Shilian, Yu Zhining, Zhangsun Shunde, Qutu Tong and many others.
@@XuerLi The Li clan had no need to fake a Chinese identity because a lot of their ministers were Xianbei, Han and Xianbei people in northern China have being integrating for over a century, the Xianbei have established many dynasties and many Hans have served them as well. As for their empress and concubines, this is not a strong evidence to suggest they are Xianbei either, the northern Wei’s Tuoba emperors had mostly Han empress and concubines and their emperors were mostly mixed Xianbei and Han by blood as well. Lastly, I wouldn’t say Li shimin was pro Xianbei, sure he had many Xianbei ministers but so did many nomadic founded dynasties had many Han ministers, even if they did like Xianbei culture that’s not enough to suggest they were Xianbei either, the Xianbei northern Wei’s xiaowen emperor was also pro Han in that matter. Not to mention li shimin himself have made many despising statements towards the nomads.
IT'S CHINESE, JUST NOT HAN CHINESE. THE LOCATION ETC. EVEN THE TANG DYNASTY WASN'T PURE HAN. BRUH.
Tang was Han bro . just because it had Turkic influence doesn't mean it is turkic han hybrid dynasty . It is still han tai zong father was han his mother was turkic but the dynasty he started was based on han intellect
xianbei are a Mongolian group which have Turkic elements/... but they have before tang dynasty they own dynasty named the northern Wei Dynasty which is "based on Han Chinese culture" .and the imperial dynasty of tang is a mix of Han Chinese and xianbei but after all tang dynasty was Chinese but it have Buddhism from India (which northern Wei had already Buddhism) and Persian instruments ...
@@mr.cebuano2843 . those uncreative fuckers mixed with han to the extend it hampered modern chinese creativity . Han are sino tibetan but keep mixing with non sino tibetan .
China wasn't UNIFIED back then so she's defo NOT CHINESE
@@changchadchanamdong2668 So you are saying that the Li clan that founded the Tang dynasty was mixed race from the get go
She literally fought for the Khan... It's mentioned in like the beginning of the original poem.
To answer your question, no it doesn't. The Kennedys descended from Irish immigrants; that doesn't make their story any less American.
@Hernando Malinche Not necessarily. There was plenty of assimilation/intermixing going on in ancient China. That's what sinicization is.
@Hernando Malinche Uh, no. The Xianbei were the ones who built Shaolin Temple, one of the most quintessentially Chinese monuments today. The analogy for them would be one of the many indigenous peoples of mesoamerica who got amalgamated into the much larger Mexican identity.
The Xianbei assimilated through language, government, and intermarriage. The Tang dynastic line that reunified China after the Northern & Southern period was half-Xianbei.
@Hernando Malinche The problem is Xianbei did became Han. Han is the equivalent of American in the ancient east Asian world so that's why Han people is very generically diverse.
I don’t think that would be the right analogy. I think a more accurate analogy would be if a thousand years from now, people’s idea of history becomes garbled and people think “great American explores” were Lewis and Clark and Columbus. It’s obvious to us that Columbus is not American. But maybe in the future, the past becomes some mysty haze and obvious difference like that is not remembered. Likely the “real” Mulan would laugh if people thought she was Chinese.
@Hernando Malinche The Chinese is a group composed of 56 ethnic groups, so the fact that Mulan had a Xianbei origin does not make her less Chinese
actually, you should say " A real Mulan isn't Han ethnic."
There simply isn't a pure Han ethnic, many different ethnic groups blend into this similar cultural group that they call themselves Han, especially during SUI TANG.
Yes, but this is a video intended to be viewed by Westerners who might not understand much about Chinese history or even know what "Han" means. That title would not really be understood. But a Westerner who sees this and has been taught "Chinese" is one ethnic group (mainly because in the West your nation usually = your ethnic group), would be intrigued and want to click if they see " "Mulan" was not "Chinese."" Then suddenly they are learning much more about China than they were ever taught.
@@heoniebee9566 That's what I thought too
China is a multi-ethnic nation. One of the best general under Mao, called Marshal He Loong, a non-Han.
@@gonzalos4379 yes migration and integration happened but Han people have unique DNA markers. Check out genetics research on wikipedia page on han people
"Mulan isn't Chinese" so you mean not Han?
@Uncle Ho so true
@Uncle Ho Chinese ethno nats get mad, hes not even white lmao
@Uncle Ho How is he wrong tho.
@@galek75 Is like saying X is not American because he's of Mexican origin. Confusing a nationality/identity with origin ethnicity.
Similarly, you can be African, Cuban, Mexican, Canadian, Irish, Italian, and you're also American.
Elon Musk must not be an American because he's born in South Africa?
What is an American? And what is a Chinese? What is a British?
E.g. I'm born in New Zealand, grew up here, I hold birth certificate, citizenship and NZ passport... but I'm not a New Zealander because of my Asian origin? Thus I'm not a New Zealander? Nope... I'm still a New Zealander, but am I not a Maori? No, I am not a Maori, I have no Maori blood in me, not even a spec, but I am still a New Zealander.
@@daudl5011 not sure what he is, deffo an accent there but.
Massively underrated channel, really glad I stumbled across it
Ikr, this is my favourite next to K&G
As a northern Chinese, the title really triggers me. If Mulan is not Chinese, then I, and my whole family, are certainly not Chinese, although my family book says we have been here for at least twenty-one generations! It is almost sure that my whole family has bloodlines from Xianbei, Di, Sogdia, even Khitai and Jurchen, all these northern and western ethnic minority groups, so what? We are still the most Chinese people you can find in the world today. My guess is that nowadays you can only find "pure blood Han people", ironically, in some very very remote southwestern villages bordering or actually inside Vietnam or Myanmar. Saying Mulan is not Chinese is as ridiculous as saying that Martin Luther King is not American because he is not white. During the Tang Dynasty, a lot of western civilizations actually call us as 桃花石, which just means Tabγač, as in Tabγač Xianbei people. Also, almost half of the bloodline of the emperors of Tang Dynasty is from Yuwen Xianbei, from the Northern Zhou Dynasty, but Tang is certainly a Chinese dynasty. China is and has always been a multi-ethnic and multi-civilization country-- there is nothing weird about it until the 19-century westerners force the notions of nation-country or ethnic-country upon the rest of the world.
For every part of Chinese history the han Chinese have been the overwhelming majority. Meaning your probably like 99% Han which makes you han. Hell most minorities probably have more Han ancestors than they do their own. Also MLK is definitely not American he’s not even European. By your logical some white or black or even other Asians can become Chinese which I’m sure you won’t agree with
Also called Serbi Tabgach or Xianbei Tuoba (in Chinese)
my ancestors also came from Heyang in Shanxi, a big military mongolian horse basecamp during Northern Wei dynasty
U May be chinese but your ancestors and mulan was not chinese
Han ethnicity is made up anyway. Often you can tell a northern Han Chinese from a southern Han Chinese person from their facial features as easily as you can tell a Spanish person from a Greek
Problem I see with some of the comments is we are crossing wires between ‘ethnicity’ and ‘nationality’. Two different things?
None the less she was northern wei and not the Chinese nation to the south
@@jonathanwilliams1065 yup, I would agree with that.
@@jonathanwilliams1065 I'd agree, China is a confederation of countries. Northern Wei would be their ancestor but not yet China. It's like calling Byzantians Romans even though they thought of themselves as Greek far later.
If you dig deep enough, you will find that Han is not Han. Anglo-Saxon is not Anglo-Saxon either. Americans, it’s a Provence stew
Doesn't matter, northern wei is still han lands
😂😂no its turkic
"...and somewhere along the way, they defeated the huns." I snaughled so hard. 🤣🤣🤣 Oh Disney...
Instead of returning to nomads, the majority of Xianbei tribes were reformed to empires by following Chinese traditions and then merged with Han Chinese long ago. Even people with Xianbei loyal family names, such as Yuwen, Murong and Yuan(元), are labelled as Han Chinese today.
Chinese identity is something generations of people have been debating for thousands of years. Emperor Qianlong wanted himself to be seen as Tibetan, Manchu, and Han all at the same time. The Qing empire in general declared that anyone Mongolian, Tibetan, Manchu, Hui, or Han was considered "Chinese". If you ask most Chinese people today, they would consider Manchus to be Chinese. As you said in your video, you can't solely rely on DNA either.
This is why it is in my opinion pretty offensive when in the 50's the Chinese Government did a survey of the people and declared there were only 52 recognized ethnicities in China. What a gross oversimplification that completely steals people's right to self-identify and ignores the subtle cultural nuances between people's background, languages, etc.
To answer your original question, as someone of Asian descent I don't care if Mulan isn't ethnically "Han", because many empires and people groups throughout the past have all claimed themselves to be the true successors of the previously recognized Chinese empires, and they all have some claim. Makes no difference splitting hairs between who should be truly recognized or not, because they are all "Chinese" in a sense.
Nevertheless, the Xianbeis were Sinophiles. The ruler’s family changed their name from Tuoba to Yuan and enforced inter-ethnic marriage. So the movie is not completely fake, it is plausible that they Xianbei would like to use Chinese A E S T H E T I C. PS: The Xianbei might have had blonde people among them. See “黄头鲜卑”
I remember some historical cn drama call them 色目族， meaning color eyes ppl
Even the Mongols have some people with blonde or red hair and light eyes (possibly including Genghis Khan himself if Muslim sources are to be believed). The steppe region had a lot of mixing of people and tribes, and with groups like the Xianbei and Mongols, some people having light hair/eyes likely came from ancient Scythians that were assimilated way back (Scythians were noted by the Greeks for very frequently having red/blonde hair and light eyes)
great works! I’m as Chinese as possible, and I don’t feel like Mulan’s ethnic origin would affect her story in any way. the poem was written in Chinese, and the setting, the way it’s narrated and her characterisation seem undoubtably Chinese to me (&I’d assume, to most Chinese people whether of Han or XianBei origin as well). It’s like how Aladdin was explicitly written to be a Chinese story that happened in China, but it’s still an Arab folk tale that is very Arab at its core. I’m very impressed with your research (and the amazing artwork), tho there’s one thing I think might be incorrect. In the poem, it says about a dozen volumes which all got the name of her father on them (“军书十二卷，卷卷有爷名”). The “battle rolls” were handwritten by and passed on to different military officers, hence multiple copies of the same document were required to ensure its accuracy. So it’s not necessarily because Mulan’s father was more important; every soldier’s name should be on all of the battle rolls, otherwise there’s a mistake. sorry I just realised I’m writing this long ass comment.
@JLO L They were forced to assimilated so yes, Southern Chinese believe they are pure Han but they might not, probably got mixed with Baiyue.
@JLO L This game of trying to find out who is pureblood Chinese is just missing the plot. It's a game as pointless as trying to claim that Emperor Diocletian was Dalmatian (modern-day Croatia) and not a Roman. It's a distinction without a difference since everyone in the region was a Roman citizen at that point. These imperial identities were always an amalgamation of numerous smaller, regional identities, and what is "Chinese" today reflects that history.
Lost in all of this ethnonationalist fuckery is the actual content of the poem. If it indeed describes Emperor Taiwu's campaigns against the Rouran, and it does seem that way, it describes an offensive war in which the premier military power of the age curb stomped a group of brokedick tribals to the point where they ended up fleeing west into the central asian hinterland to avoid extermination. The real distortion is how every adapation paints this as a defensive action.
@@sgcl10658 There are no pure blooded Xianbei or xiongnu, the nomads in Mongolia have 3 major genetic makeups, 1/Ancient north east Asian 2/Caucasian 3/Han. Especially in their maternal DNA.
@@hwasiaqhan8923 Mulan doesn't have a meaning in Chinese as stated by one of the comments here.
The name might most likely be derived from a non-Chinese language.
China was a land of diversity before Han people came into domination and now it's literally just a country based on Han-Chinese.
@@jackjackyphantom8854 China had no ethno diversity until the 5 barbarian invasions which brought the xianbei, Xiongnu people in to China, what nonsense are you talking about?
Mulan was a fictional character created by sinicized peoples living in the locations of Ancient China. I'd say that makes her Chinese. That being said, their culture obviously differed from the mainstream Han culture (for example, they had a Khan instead of an emperor). The new Disney Mulan stinks of cultural essentialism by completely ignoring the cultural variations within China.
Mulan must be the Han nationality. Mulan is the strongest representative of the Han culture. Her story is the performance of the highest Confucian and Taoism culture. The non -Han people do not have such a strong thought.
The ancient Chinese refer to the Han people. The Chinese characters "Chinese 中國人/華人/唐人" refers to the Han nationality.
Most of the Han people in China are pure species, and there are many people.
After 1949, other ethnic groups in China also attributed to the "own Chinese ID card" (which includes Korean people who sneaked). There are "national identities" on the ID card. All mixed -race people must also have. This is the same as all countries.
Japan has more mixed races than Chinese Han nationality.
The Koreans have no purebreds. They have been occupied and invaded many times. He is a mixed race of all East Asian races.
@@barbiebarbie1813 Found the racist.
My hometown is located at shanxi province, where used to be the capital of northwei dynasty. There are many xianbei's villages documented by history. However, according to a loacal scholor named yuan(changed from tuoba) haowen who lived in 1000 years ago and believed himself to be the decendents of xianbei nation, xianbei people at that time already forgot about their ancestor and thoguht themselve as han chinese. Because my parents' families both lived here for over 1000 years, I used to thought my blood has been affected dramatically by those nomadic nations. However, there is a DNA sample of ancient han chiese soldier who died 2000 years ago, after compared mine with him, I found all the major forms are the same, only about 3 percent improvement in syberian and 0.5 percent in caucasian, which can almost be ignored.
Thus, I believe those nomadic people are definitely in small population compared with local han chinese. And all the nomadic people have been intergrated into the group of han chinese. It's really common in the world history.
Here at my hometowen are mountains everywhere. People are quite isolated in the past becasue of the poor transportation. I can't even understand what they are talking about in the neighboring county. But here is one of the early origin of china.
Great video. One learns something new everyday.
The problem of the title and the first halves of the video is that the concept of "Chinese" presented here is based on the Western construction of what "Chinese" is, or how the term is used (often inaccurately) in the mainstream Western narrative. In the Chinese language, the English term "Chinese" can be translated into many different concepts, and "Chinese" is certainly not equivalent to Han Chinese.
Now let's talk about the Xianbei. Technically, Xianbei is an important part of Chinese history, especially the Tuoba clan. For instance, the Empress Zhuangshui (长孙皇后) of early Tang dynasty, is of Tuoba-Xianbei descent, and she was also the mother of Emperor Gaozong. The same phenomenon occurred in the Sui dynasty's Imperial court as well.
Because of this reason, the Tang dynasty's Imperial line is technically of a mix Han-Xianbei origin. In later history, the Xianbei people (as a collective concept) had been integrated into its surrounding ethnicities or cultural groups, therefore, the Han-Chinese subgroups from nowadays Henan, Shanxi, or Shannxi, might also have Xianbei lineage in their bloodline.
Culturally, Sui and Tang cultures were a hybrid of Xianbei and Han cultures, as well as Central Asian influences including Persia and Sogdiana, and such cultural aspects are still well evident in the surviving arts from these two dynasties or period.
In summary, the issue of this video is that it tries to understand the concept of "Chinese" based on the often confusing Western interpretation of what "Chinese” is, although the English term, "Chinese", is not singular at all. Furthermore, the term, "Chinese", can be translated into many different things in its native Chinese language.
I do appreciate the author mentioned the differences in the end, but this concept should be carried throughout the video.
We visited Mulan Shan, and the temple dedicated to Mulan whilst we were visiting Wuhan.
No. I think it dose not undermine the whole story of the Balad of Mulan. Ifact with out it many and perhaps some curious historians like you may have not found out the possible truth of Mulan but instead respect it for what it is.
This was awesome. Thanks for putting the time and effort into this for our entertainment. You're my new favorite channel.
Chinese is a nationality and not ethnicity. So it is possible that Mulan is not Han ethnicity but she is certainly Chinese since her story takes place in China and the xianbei ethnicity are now part of the Chinese population.
Mulan is not Turkic, while she's Mongolic.
The attackers ("Huns") were partly Turkic though.
Brainblox The earliest Turks were Huns’ blacksmiths, who came from the Inuit tribes in far north Asia. Xianbei Empire was the successor of Huns, Turks couldn’t fight against it, so they continued to be the blacksmith tribe of Xianbei. Turks began to rise after the fall of Xianbei Empire, about in the 5th century AD. Although Turks were once part of Huns and Xianbeis, they were very small tribes before the rise of the Turkic empire. According to the literature, Mulan knew how to weave, so she was a farmer of Xianbei Empire, not a woman herdsman or a blacksmith of Turks.
@@lushu7082 Im not sure if they were small though. They managed to overthrow the ruling Rouran. If the Rouran were the majority, that would have been very unlikely.
@@lushu7082 that’s pseudo history
Earliest Turks were warrior guifang peoples in BC 1600
This channel is quickly becoming one of my favourites! Add to that the John Green reference, just excellent!
Han chinese is mix with so many ethnic group. Thats why their population is very large.
finally someone understand han people are preety mixed with different elements
There r 56 groups
Han Chinese is like Europeans
Also, chinese emperor also would be also called Khan by the non-han people. Sui and Tang emperor were khan.
yes ，sui and tang emperor conquer many hordes
Very good point .
Tian Kehan
Sui Yang Jian was 圣人可汗，Tang Li shi ming was 天可汗，yuan Kublai also Khan, really fucking a lot of chinese emperors were Khan. Why the video maker use this point to determine Mulan’s identity.
khan is the title given by steppe tribe, doesn't mean the emperor himself is not han
As a Westerner I don't know enough of Chinese history and makeup of the country to know the different factions. As far as Chinese films go mine start with Red Cliffs
She is not Han Chinese, but a Chinese undoubtedly.
There weren't an actual thing called Chinese until the late 1800s. Before there was only Han people and others
@@arbeiterz8491
China is literally mean: the host of all vassal countries in East Asia. Japan had a chance become the rightful China.
@@spe02001 The chance to become China for Japan was WW2, what Japan did in WW2 is exactly what every dynasty in "China" did to Chinese in every civil war. Japan's effort in WW2 was aimming for the goal to continentalize itself and become "China"
@@arbeiterz8491 白皮猪懂什么叫文明吗？滚回去拜你的一神教吧。另外，基督教等等都是犹太教的异教，赶快认祖归宗吧，垃圾
Yea cuz Chinese represents the 56 groups
nice work!
I thought before that I was “pure” northern Han Chinese, until I found out some portion of “Siberia” in my DNA test..
Sain uu
While it is definitely true that the poem itself paints Mulan as being of Xianbei origin, what are your thoughts on a possible inspiration for Mulan?
There's a young lady named Xun Guan 荀灌 in the Western Jin Dynasty (granddaughter of the famous Xun Yu) who rescued her father by basically pulling off what Taishi Ci had done at Beihai roughly a century earlier for Kong Rong. She broke through an encirclement of enemy troops to get reinforcements to rescue her father's city.
As far as contemporary women warriors go, I can't think of any others that would be close to the poem's creation. Though of course, my history is not that comprehensive.
It's not correct to say she is not Chinese. But u can say she is not Han Chinese. Chinese is never a pure ethnicity, Chinese those ethnicities carry Han culture and in Chinese history, Han Chinese has been mixed with other ethnicities. I'm Chinese, one of my grandfathers is Manchu. Manchu people were not Chinese until the last dynasty. We identify ourselves who carry Chinese culture or r born in China as Chinese, not necessarily to be Han ethnicity. There r 56 ethnicities in China and even as Han Chinese, genetically, different from North to South.
I’m Han Chinese with a Uyghur Grandmom. I’m mainly Han and I’m Chinese.
@@christinem4266 Mainly? How can someone be mainly any ethnicity? You'd have to go back at least four generations to see what ethnicity predominates.
@@karinschultz5409 All my other direct relatives are Han except for my grandma and my mom(mixed). Yes I'm mainly Han.
@@karinschultz5409 And considered I’m a northern Chinese so maybe Mongolian, Manchurian, Xianbei, etc as well.
So, here's the question. Is "Han" a culture or does it define a "ethnic' group with its own language and culture? China seems to have a habit of defining dynasties as Chinese even though these were founded by invaders such as the Mongol, Manchu, Liao and Jin (Jurchen). So, if "Chinese" is an amalgam of differing "ethnicitie", including "Han", then why is Chinese associated with "Han"? All the above had their own cultures. Historically, there was an Eastern Han and a Western Han dynasty, so which one would be considered "Han?"
Hi. I'm curious about the genetic chart at 10:11. Can you link the source so I can learn more about that chart? Thank you.
i love the historical analysis, the step by step logic thing.
First of all, it is nearly impossible to distinguish those descended from "non-Han" from the period from "Han" that descended from the period today (recall that multiple emperors of the Northern Wei dynasty deliberately tried to ensure that their people assimilate to Han culture). It's like arguing that the Tang dynasty is not Chinese because the rulers were of non-Chinese origin. There is a certain fluidity regarding nationality that you are entirely discounting.
Hmm... Let me put it like this: is Hitler German? (Hint: born in Austria). Is Stalin Russian? (Hint: born in Georgia) Is George Washington American? (Hint: born in Colonial England) Is Gandhi Indian? (Hint: lived in South African for 21 years).
Given all of that, what is your point about Mulan?
Not saying you don’t have a point, but your examples are pretty bad…before ww1/ww2 Austrians were simply known as another type of German, just like Prussians, Bavarians, Hanoverians were. George Washington was most certainly American because the people in Colonial America felt different and had a different culture then the people of Britain. And what does Gandhi living in South Africa take away from him being an Indian man born in India?
Hitler is Austrian. Technically he is German as Austria is a branch of Many different German ethnicities like Bavarian, Saxon, and Prussian. But speaking of Nationality, he is a Pro-German Austrian.
Stalin is ethnically Georgian, but was still considered Russian citizen. So, kinda.
George Washington is technically English(13 colonies back then removed their identity with being British colonists after the revolution)
Gandhi is complicated.
Mulan must be the Han nationality. Mulan is the strongest representative of the Han culture. Her story is the performance of the highest Confucian and Taoism culture. The non -Han people do not have such a strong thought.
George Washington can not be identified as English, the colonies were not considered a part of England unlike French possessions.
@@barbiebarbie1813 Mulan was not real, so why bother?
There was a play staged at my high school back in the 70's called 'The Lady General Hwa Mu Lan'.
exact Hwa ou Hua Mu Lan les chinois sont Han à 90 pour cent les Hans sont sédentaires qui ont subit plusieurs invasions de nomades dont les huns . Hua MuLan UNE JEUNE FILLE par amour filial s'est déguisée en homme pour remplacer son père handicapé ceci est un conte pour exalter la piété filiale et le dévouement à la patrie
Very good, this is fairly accurate with all the proof given by science.
So what , by your logic , so neither was George Washington an American, he was English from England.
Yes he was English in terms kf ethnicity and american in terms of nationality.
Actually most Americans are English since the culture is based on English culture and language with some foreign elements.
why so triggered?
Nuh uh. By this logic England doesn't exist. They be nordic...
@@user-nc5yc9es6j England is also a victim of white man conquering a nation. The romans and the Nordic regions took over
I've heard of this before but not in so much depth. Awesome video!
Hello twin sister your hair looks wet
And you look mad???
@@whosedidi Hey! I'm actually you from the future. I can't tell you why I'm like this or I might accidentally destroy space and time, but you'll find out soon.
There're 2 mistakes here: Chinese are not qual to Han ethnic; Even modern Han ethnic has been merged from antient Han and Xianbei and other tribes as well.
I have parts of the poem memorized since I was a child. I don’t know how I completely missed 可汗 all these years!
well said! very well said!
I didn't realise Han Chinese were so diverse! It does seem that convenience is really denying identity when they're essentially from different countries with genetic, cultural and language differences.
To be honest, Han did have CIA-esque political intrigue that they managed to get many Xiang Nu Tribes to back the Han during a major campaign. Also tons of nomadic tribes who lived in "Chinese proper" (one of whom being Jurchens, who would become the founders of Manchurians and later Qing Emperor).
@@powerist209 Jurchens/Manchu were NOT Nomadic. They lived in Villages and farmed and hunted while others were hunter gatherers of the Siberian Forrest. Some people just assumed they were nomadic because they fought as horseback archers just like their neighbors the Mongolic and Turkic tribes and also used the same titles(Khan,Khagan,Bek/Bey etc etc) but they did not live like Turks nor mongols in tents nor nomadic....Sorry im a big nerd.
@@mongolchiuud8931 the manchu in genetic and culture was more closer to Han and korean that why unlike mongolian fail to rule over china when the manchu was easier to adopt Han chinese culture and language
@@ZhangLee. Plenty of "Mongolic" people ruled China before the Mongols of Genghis Khan. Like the Various Yan Dynasty,Northern Wei Dynasty etc,Liao Dynasty etc. And technically even the Manchu Dynasty failed as they were overthrown in the early 1900s.
I say the Manchu/Jurchen were closer to Koreans than Han as the Manchu/Jurchen ancestors were a part of various Korean Kingdoms in the past like Balhae,Goguryeo and others. And just like the Koreans were known for their superior archery and cavalry.
@@mongolchiuud8931 technically those " mongolic " people only rule a part of northen china sometime , yan dynasty was not consider "mongolic " it was found by Han ( descendant from zhou to be exact ) and i wouldn`t say manchu failed when they just adopting Han culture let them to rule for over 300 year
MY ANCESTORS ARE NOMADS I'M PROUD.
2 Mongol tribes fighting eachother - that is accurate. Xiongnu vs Xionbei. Yes.
Xiognu were proto Turkic so we're Xionbei the Rouran we're proto Mongols
*tuoba being proto Turkic the rest of Xionbei mongolic
@@Kubilay3502 well its not conclusive that they were Proto Turkic. Its likely! But not an established fact. After all, they were a multiethnic confed....
@@Kubilay3502 Xiongnu is modern day Mongols.ancient turks were Mongol people
@@Kubilay3502 even dna proves that
说鲜卑人不是中国人。就相当于说绳文人不是日本人。达罗毗荼人不是印度人。普鲁士人不是德国人。亚历山大马其顿不是希腊人一样。
Mulan: Sir, i want to reveal to you that I'm not a man
General: What!?
Mulan, Sir, and I am not chinese
General: What!???
Mulan: and im from the future.
General: Medic, she needs help.
Hahaha.
Thank you, this video is helpful, easy, short, and amazing.
Many confuse cultural/ethnic identity with racial identity. Han is not a race but a culture, just as American or Hispanic is not a race but a culture. For example, Xiongnu, Xianbei, Ba, Shu, Baiyue tribes who abandoned nomadic or other lifestyles and adopted Han culture became Han.
Grandmother told me at one point in time southern Chinese people questioned the Chinese of the North whether or not to be "true Chinese" or of full/mixed Mongolian decent. But that was some time ago. At that time they still were binding women's feat and carrying them so they did not have to walk. They did that to her as a young child, she was born into a family where the father was in charge of the village/town.
Very good video. The idea of China as a nation is very recent. Although the term zhongguo 中國 exists in ancient text, but did not refer to what we know as China until late Qing dynasty. Ancient rules did not ruled 中國. What they ruled was called Tianxia 天下.
All you said this was like oh my God Beowulf it's not from Norway it's from Denmark or Sweden or Finland yeah I mean he was a Scandinavian right but not a Norwegian citizen
You blew my mind bro
Some later dynasty Chinese historians suggested that the first Mulan poem was written by a concubine of Emperor Taizong of the Tang Dynasty, Xu Hui. Xu Hui most certainly fits in the time frame of when the ballad was written. And being a famous female poet of that time, it's probably why some historians attribute the authorship to her.
Which is interesting because the Tang royals were also from northern china and had Xianbei ancestry
Id love if you could do a video discussing the developments of the steep nomads stemming from the donghu (3:37)
6:42
Petition to make this a meme
Fun Fact: Instead finding out Mulan origin now I questioning about my origin lol
Same lmao
For those saying not han does not mean not chinese... Mulan is not chinese becos her story is literally from a non chinese state!!! Like she is as distinctly non chinese as a japanese or korean.
Northern Wei is not a chinese state as much as the mongol empire is not chinese. (And before u comment, the yuan dynasty and mongol empire are distinct states with the same ruler for a period but had seperate governments).
Qin Dynasty was Xirong. Qin Shi Huang is not Chinese based on that logic.
Han Chinese has always been a cultural identity, not a racial one.
What ethnic identity is a racial identity
@@hwasiaqhan8923 Anglo?
@@zsarimaxim692 Anglo is not a ethnicity, it encompasses many ethnicities.
@@zsarimaxim692 Han was a identity built on paternal bloodline and cultural heritage.
@@hwasiaqhan8923 Such as?
Thank you sooo much for this!
Oh, a Crash Course History fan
A lot of what you tell is in accordance with a (Chinese) tv serie : The legend of Hua Mulan. Where indeed it is the battle between Rouran and Northern Wei.
While you did make some solid points, however there are some holes in your argument in a respectful way.
First her being set in Northern Wei doesn't really mean she is not han or not chinese. As Chinese territories have been conquered by Non-han , and Chinese or Han people have a reputation of rebelling afterwards. Also since it is conquered, there will of course be a large amount of han people present in Northern Wei. The best example of this would be of course the Ming Dynasty itself where bunch of Chinese Rebels kicked the Ruling Mongols outs in a Conquered Territories.
05:14 This part where Mulan riding a steed is quite a weak argument. As Mulan herself is a exceptional historical figure who might not even be real. Hence her being the exception to ride a horse and lead a army wouldn't be surprising. Ignoring Western examples like Jeanne D'Arc, even places as Conservative in Asia has its exception as well. Such as Liu Bei's Wife Lady Sun is a known Swords Maniac and Swordswoman with a wild personality that would be consider a complete blasphemy in Ancient Chinese Society. And In Japan we have Tomoe Gozen , a female Warrior Woman who broke the norms of the Onna-bugeisha that only uses a Naginata and doesn't ride horses, Tomoe Gozen was known for using a Katana and horse riding as well.
Although that was just a few example. As Hua Mulan's story was written centuries ago by generations of different Authors with different agendas and different biases. All we can do is just cross reference, although that said , the chance of Hua Mulan being no han is also relatively low, but that doesn't change the fact she fought for China.
I am not Chinese but as a French person, I can say national cultural tales that originated in other nations is not that much of a big deal. A popular example is the very British Le Morte d'Arthur by 15th-century Sir Thomas Malory. It features knights stories that originated from nations known today as Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Germany and yes, especially France!
Another example that features historical(ish) fantasy epic tale is the 8th-9th century AD Annales regni Francorum (The Royal Frankish Annals) or the "Chanson de geste" that mainly talks about the tales of the 12 paladins of Charlemagne, the Christian emperor of the Franks, but also talks about protagonists who are NOT from the Frankish empire and some parts of the tales is even set after the fall of the empire. It also featured Muslims knights protagonists fighting in Africa! It is still considered an important piece of epic work for nations like France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands.
Culture is complicated like that but that doesn't mean you cannot have nationalist pride over those stories of course, as long as we remember we aren't the only people who share them.
Oh, the bit about the Muslim knights is actually new to me.
@@CoolHistoryBros I remember watching a documentary about the various stories in the Matter of France and a historian speculated that since most of these songs were pure Carolingian propaganda and written after the facts by the descendants of that dynasty, that one story could of been made to justify the Franks owning territories in the holy land while also allying with Muslim states. Hence why the Saracens and the Moors were described as vile since they were the main forces that opposed the Franks in the first crusade.
...but then, we are talking about songs that features sorcerers, giants, knights traveling to the moon on a chariot and warriors lifting an entire mountain over their heads. So maybe it's not that shocking the stories will constantly switch the point of view.
thank you; I'm weeping.
She is Chinese for us(Middle eastern and western )
Xiongu , xianbei, Han , manchu and etc are Chinese
10:57 to bad that now you may hate the live action mulan
As an american born chinese I am very glad to have found your channel. I have a great fascination with chinese history but cannot read/write chinese, sothis channel has helped me greatly. Please more videos like this! Great work!
Of course there are many different ethnic groups in China but YES, Milan was absolutely "Chinese" as she is of an ethnic group from China...Why is this even a discussion?
"I am sure it is going to be an entertaining film."
Oh boy...
0:24 not invaded by Huns, Rou Ran.
1nd, nationality, She is from Northern Wei, a complete Sinicized state. That claims to be the successor of the HuaXia civilization.
2st, ethnicity, She might be Han or Xianbei. we don't know. living in a Xianbei state does not mean you are Xianbei ethnic.
people get mix with "chinese" and "han".
Yea, kingdom in that land would call themselves as Chinese, even the mongolian. This tradition continued for tens of century. The last dynasty Qing isn't han people too, but the 1st thing they did is find themselve a Chinese ancestor, that's why morden China has 56 ethnic groups
You forgot to point out that her name is Xianbei, like a male Xianbei name.
We all know northern Chinese and Southern chinese are not the same. Just look at the features will know.
Im cantonese malaysian and when my xi’an china fren came. Instantly we looked diff.
But to a White Canadian girl, I would look at the pair of you and not see the distinction in the features. I would tend to think All Asians look the same. Gene outward expression seems to be one basis which is a natural attribute as opposed to a mutual agreement or not - of a man made construct of political identity? This can get very confusing as how to identify yourself.
is not han chinese then,but now is consided a chinese
So then what you mean, Genghis Khan wasn't chinese but if the Chinese makes a tale about him then he becomes a Chinese like Mulan? If you annex Korea all Korean history and people become chinese as well...Or even Trump can be Chinese in the future. One of a thing which is so disgusting about some chinese is that you try to devour anything beneficial to you no matter if it harms others.
@@saaksaak8042 beacause like all ancient highly civilization like roman and greece ,the ancient people are arrogant also you can call it racist,when the poem of mulan is creat,mean ancient chinese accept it ,otherwise ancient racist chinese never make a poem for barbarian,also ancient tuba people already disappreared,them extinct? no ! assimalite by chinese.the definition of a race is not only by gene also by culture.
@@cathayvanguard6028 Xianbei Tang dynasty accepted or elaborated mulan fable, being xianbei themselves. Nowhere something accepted by " ancient " chinese.
Tang is Middle chinese period. And try checking out "hakka" as a subgroup. Not absorbed into chinese as you said.
@@saaksaak8042 I was going to give you a good answer until I read the prejudiced comment in the last paragraph.... She was not Han Chinese because she had a somewhat distinct culture. Now it is Chinese because they have mixed with Han ethnicity and culture. It's part of the group, doesn't mean they should forget their roots. Moreover, the Xianbei wanted to join the Han. The Han is basically something more cultural than ethnic.
@@saaksaak8042 The thing is, there is no country for Mulan now. What would she be if she's not Chinese? Mongolian? Korean? She could only be a Chinese because her nation was absorbed into Chinese civilization. You can say Genghis Khan is not Chinese because Mongol still exists (despite the fact that his birthplace is inside the Chinese border now).
I loved the John Green Mongol reference!
10:00 To be fair, Koreans (like Northern Vietnamese) are a result of centuries of colonisation efforts by the Chinese, the Han Dynasty attempted to populate North Korea and North Vietnam through massive immigration (as with all newly conquered areas of the Empire), today over half of all Korean clans in South Korea are direct male lineages from China.
That aside, Koreans are also a mix with Khitan (Cathay) people and other nomadic tribes, much like how the Vietnamese mixed with other tribes. Finding genetic origins for an ethnic group is always difficult. Clans are the only somewhat reliable way to identify ancestry, but the longer the progenitor of the clan is in the past, the less genetically similar they are. The Queen of Canada is a descendant of Charlemagne, Rollo, the Prophet Mohammed, and a lot of other historical figures, almost every U.S. American President (except for Martin van Buren and Eisenhower) descent from the same medieval Irish King, yet Kennedy was the only "Irish" President. The problem with ethnicity is determining what defines it.
Mongols and Turks are not of the same origin Xiangbei ancient Mongolian clans
Mulan is most likely the Sinicized Tuoba iBo Tuoba eventually abandoned their Mongolian traditions in favor of chinese ones.
Well, you don't even know that "Chinese" is an umbrella term. It includes 56 ethnic groups in China. Mulan is not Han people, but she is Xianbei people, and Xianbei is also a highly sinicized ethnic group. The vast majority of Xianbei people are integrated into the Han ethnic group
Actually，xianbei and khitan people is donghu offspring. Now，khitan is china‘s name of Russia. Morden han chinese mix many north ethnic groups.
This includes Koreans and some Japonic Islanders.
mulan is chinese ,but might not be a han chinese