Ex-FLDS Reacts to Gloriavale Christian Community in New Zealand
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มี.ค. 2023
- Sam & Melissa compare and contrast the LDS, the FLDS and the Gloriavale Christian Community in their reaction to the documentary "Gloriavale: A World Apart" Episode 1 on Amazon Prime.
"Gloriavale: A World Apart" Episode 1 can be found on Amazon Prime
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Interestingly, the couple that gets married in this documentary, ended up with five kids, husband got sick and they wouldn’t help him with his seizures, she got all of them out and they have participated in court proceedings against the community, the wife seemed so so shy and she has turned out to be a very strong woman, wife, and mother, as well as advocate! ♥️♥️
Paul and Pearl fyi
Pearl is so strong. I heard her testify about not being able to go to the dentist and just needed to deal with horrible dental pain and tooth loss. I'm glad they got out.
Where can i find out more about them?
@@FlowerChild65 search Gloriavale in TH-cam
@@divatesteddivaapproved she turned out to be a tough cookie!!
Gloriavile was founded in 1969, in Canterbury, by Neville Cooper, who changed his name to Hopeful Christian. He was charged & found guilty of 10 counts of indecent assault between 1980-1984. There are still allegations today of child abuse, & the local authorities are investigating. Gloriavile is currently in the NZ Employment Court about work conditions & what is deemed volunteering & actual work. What they show in the 3 part doco is what Gloiravile wants you to see. If you can watch the actual movie that was recently released, that is from those who have left Gloriavile, & their experience & truth. What they went through in Gloriavile, what they left behind if they left or were kicked out. It's eye opening. It's why gloriavile is considered a cult in nz.
I first heard you both on Mormon stories. Loved the episode!
So glad I found you again.
The way you talk about your past and the love and respect you have for one another is so obvious.
I’m so glad you both made it out of whatever trauma you had and sound so healthy and loving!
My husband and I had it the other way around than a lot of couples, where he was the one who was more invested in the aesthetics of our wedding (especially colours), as he's a graphic designer and very artistic and has a strong sense of style. I'm not artistic at all but I am a financial person, so I was in charge of the budget. We made all the really big decisions together, like the overall "feel" and theme we were going for, the venue, music, food and drink, etc - and I was responsible for my own wedding outfit of course - but all the detailed decisions were his.
Another factor that played into it was that it was my second marriage and his first, so I'd already had a big, romantic "princess day". Being hubby's first (and hopefully only) time, and him having some definitive ideas about what he wanted because he had waited a long time to get married, I basically wanted him to have his special day and I basically just reserved the right of veto and added my two cents in when it was asked for.
I am in NZ. Gloriavale pretty much handpicked the people they allowed to be featured in these earlier documentaries - to always show them in a good light. The new documentary that has been in cinemas recently is different - it is from the perspective of people who have left the community - so the real stories are coming out now. There is an organisation that helps leavers - because they leave with nothing and very large families and no knowledge of the modern world. They also will be disowned by family still in the community - it is very sad. There is a lot out now on TH-cam about these stories.
I’m hoping we can see the new documentary here in the states soon! It was very obvious that the people were hand picked, even more impressive that Paul and pearl left!!!
The show we were watching was definitely painting everything in a positive light. We are excited to continue to watch more stories and documentaries about this group, especially from those that have left.
What’s the new documentary called? I need to keep an eye out for it
Especially here in New Zealand...
@@boozeshoes “Gloriavale” it’s a great watch. I watched it when it first came out but it is a super heavy watch ❤
Sound is perfect!!! Thank youuuu!!! 💕
I can't wait for the next two videos on this! I started watching and it is so fascinating
I grew up pretty closely tied to this community (girls from there would study at my school and stay with members of the cult I grew up in). There is a LOT of much darker information that is not widely publicised or not public at all. I'm so glad people are finally becoming aware of it. My biggest wish is that it, and my own cult dissolve in my lifetime. Really weird seeing something so close to home on your channel!
If you don’t mind me asking but what is your group called? I’m extremely interested in learning about different cults, I don’t know of many of them down here as I only live across the ditch. I am so happy you managed to get out yourself. Take care of yourself 🇦🇺♥️
@@swedishlina My group didn't really have a formal name, but it fell under the Hebrew Roots/Messianic Jewish umbrella.
@@hopetikvah4906 so a Jewish-Christian cult that believed that Jesus was the messiah of the Torah/Old Testament. It does make for an interesting mix of a religion. Unfortunately that is only from the outside, however from what limited “
understanding” of the subject I have it not so on the inside.
Especially if you are a woman, but then I don’t really know of any religion that puts us women above the men.
I am sure you sacrificed a lot to be able to escape, I really hope the best for you.
@@swedishlina Yup, that's pretty much exactly it. They presented almost like an SDA group to outsiders, and many members were respectable members of the community, but behind the scenes was child beating, hoarding guns and ammo to defend themselves against the government, acting out Armageddon in the bush, polygamy, and underage forced marriages (youngest I knew was a 15 year old girl made to marry the son of one of her father's other wives) etc. There are things and people that I miss, but it's been almost two years since I left, and I'm never going back.
@@hopetikvah4906 thank you so much for explaining this to me. I truly appreciate your openness in regards to your previous “family”. I am truly sorry for what you left behind and the people you had to sever yourself from. However if sounds like you are now living a true life and I hope your path out of this religion will be a smooth one. My heart goes out to you ❤️
Your audio is so much better now. Thanks!
Yay, thank you!
You guys are great, love what you do. I would love to hear more about your stories. It's very interesting.
My husband and I chose everything about the wedding together (besides my dress). The only thing he didn't choose and neither did I was the plates and table cloths, because we let that to my mom.
My mom's favorite hobby is to put together beautiful tables and it was like a little present to her from us
That’s beautiful!
Hey I hello. I'm from New Zealand 🇳🇿. Can't wait to watch this and see your view on this group.
CAN'T STOP LAUGHING. When I was married a thousand years ago, I had a candlelight wedding in a small university chapel, officiated by an Episcopal priest from my home church. I had the MOST FUN planning my pink-and-green wedding. My dress was white taffeta, my shoes were forest-green satin, and my flowers were deep pink. Maid of honor was in forest-green taffeta; bridesmaids were in deep pink taffeta; flower girls were in white taffeta. They all carried white flowers. I ran a few ideas past my then-fiance, who looked up from his law textbooks and murmured "Sounds great, sweetie" a few dozen times. Bless him, he wouldn't have cared (or probably even noticed) if I'd showed up in purple and orange stripes and a burlap veil.
NO, it is not usual for the groom to be deeply involved in color selections for weddings, at least not in most mainstream American churches. Some engaged men humor their brides more than others, but the truth is most don't care and just want all the bridal hoopla to be over and done with.
Your wedding sounded so full of life, I love it!
Just wanted to point out that in OUR culture, it may not be usual for the groom to be so involved, but in other cultures, it might be different. I have a friend who is now married to a beautiful Chinese woman, but he is from the United States and she is, obviously, from China. So not only did they have to plan TWO separate weddings (one here, the other in China), but they had to have an engagement ceremony in China, with pictures, invitations, the whole thing. He HAD to be more involved for the Chinese celebrations because that's what's expected in that culture, and there's nothing wrong with that. To us, some things might seem strange, maybe even a little backward, but it's all about understanding the why behind these traditions, which have been around for millennia. They don't see it as outlandish or absurd as we might because it's what they've been taught to view as normal, again for generations upon generations.
Besides, why should it matter whether or not a guy has any say in the wedding? He's getting married, too, and if the couple has a strong relationship, it won't be an issue deciding on various things for the wedding. And yes, I am speaking as a now married woman myself; the only thing my husband wanted was for me to feel safe and well, as I deal with chronic illness and past trauma. Although, we did both have the same ideas for my wedding dress, which was rather shocking, in a good way, LOL!
@@manaspajamas5071 And that's part of the beauty of communities like this. We can all share and learn together.
@@jillsifer Absolutely! 😊
This was very interesting thank you guys!
I watched your video then watched all three episodes but now I’m watching interviews of people who left. It’s interesting to see what the documentary focused on and hearing the stories of those who left.
What are the names or titles of the programs you watched on u tube? I am an Australian woman who had no idea these cults made it so close to home! The whole belief system is polar opposite in every way to the New Testament bible and what Jesus taught! I know, l am a bible believing Christian. 🦘🙂😯😧🥴🥰
@@YtGad7000 I just put in the search bar people who left Gloriavale. A few videos popped up. It appears to me Lilia Tarawa is the most known. She has done a TedTalk and I believe she wrote a book. I haven’t watched everything that has come up at this time.
Eventhough the community is clearly set up for no privacy, I did love the fact that these group meals took away some of the workload of cooking meals for your whole family as a wife every day. Also, the laundry service I thought was also a great idea for a wife with a ton of kids...kind of gave me the feel of having help with a sister wife without having to share your actual husband. Also growing old in that community, you never have to worry about having a roof over your head or food in your stomach and there are always people around so as an elderly person you dont have to worry about growing old and dying alone. There were also lots of fun activities and laughter and at least some connection and access to the outside world and inviting the outside world to their community. Lots of things are wrong with this situation but even wrong things have a few takeaways that are positive.
I don't get that channel, so I very much enjoyed your recap and look forward to hearing about the next episodes.
Can’t wait for the next ones
Can't believe the documentary is no longer on Amazon Prime
Watched this a few years ago. It's really interesting. As others have said, I highly recommend Daughter of Gloriavale and any talks Lilia has given.
Thank you for the recommendation, we'll look into her talks.
Gloriavale Leavers Trust is a great resource for articles, books, films, and much more about the community/cult. Especially right now during the current womens court case.
My husband helped pick the colors for our wedding. We looked at swatches together and chose something we both liked. If I had real wanted a certain color, my husband would probably have gone with it, but I would not have chosen something I knew he hated.
He did not take part in choosing my dress, except to say he wanted me to be able to move and didn’t think I would look good in something super poofy.
I really enjoy watching your videos, Sam and Melissa! Thanks for uploading another video. It’s really interesting to me to see how many groups are so similar to the FLDS and I would love to see more reaction videos like these. Can’t wait to watch the next two parts! Also, I would love to see a video on your family trees, I’m interested to see if you are related biologically to any of the other groups that also practice Polygamy and the mainstream church. Also I would love to see your reactions to other groups like Gloriavale like The Family International and many others! Also the audio/sound quality is amazing and so are both of you two! ❤️❤️
Thank you so much, Grace! We will definitely continue to do reaction videos of other groups.
The community was founded in 1969 by Neville Cooper. Thanks guys for always having such interesting topics I absolutely love your channel ❤️
I grew up in a fundie christian environment, i was taught the same about the dinosaurs. There is so much to learn about that group! Id be thrilled for you guys to dive into that rabbit hole!
It seems the man’s say in the wedding colors is an amalgamation of how much the woman will let him and how much the man cares about it.
Need the “yes we do!” Always!
Really interesting! I saw a Ted Talk from Lilia Tarawa in 2017 about her growing up in that cult. It is riveting!
Awesome documentary
Mics both sound good!!
sam has such a delightful speaking voice!
For any Aussies. Gloriavale: a world apart is on Tubi
Would love to hear you speak about the communal group the Twelve Tribes. They also live in a similar way
My husband and I just had a courthouse wedding and plan to have an actual ceremony after he graduates from university, but we’re in a bit of a dilemma about colors. My favorite color is red and his is green, but we don’t want our wedding to look like Christmas 😂
If you do sage green and a light almost pinky red it won't.
You guys should visit the Creation Museum and the Ark Encounter in Kentucky. It shows the science behind the dinosaurs, the flood, etc. It’s fascinating. I was always very confused about the dinosaurs (pretty much everything you said), too. It’s so interesting to see history and science come to life.
Please tell me this is a joke.
@@angelamaryquitecontrary4609 Some people really have to make stuff fit. Like fit into their worldview. 🤦🤦♀️🤦♂️ What can ya do? 🤷🤷♀️🤷♂️
@@danysanerd2383 Destroy them in a flood?
Agreed @C Pillow - just because there are some extremist religions that believe something, doesn’t mean it isn’t true or partially true. Just like just because many people don’t believe something, doesn’t make it not true.
I currently engaged and have similar situation as what Melissa said regarding picking colors! I am in charge of picking colors but only because my fiancé doesn’t really have strong opinions on the matter lol
The granddaughter of one of leader's has TED talk really interesting on how she was treated. And how/why left.
Gloriavale Leavers Support Trust is the group that is working to bring help to this group
I'm pretty it started in Australia or the leader was from Australia. It started off as a group of people helping each other with whatever they needed and now it's a community under serious investigation. There are lawsuits underway as we speak. I am from New Zealand and I find it really intriguing
The Bruderhof also have this shared within the community
I am an Orthodox Jew, and we also were taught that dinosaurs were destroyed during the great flood, because for whatever reason there was different animals that weren’t worthy to make it onto the ark. They also explain that it is possible that the flood created such an effect on the world that it appears like the world is a lot older than it is. I find it so fascinating which things are in common amongst all these different ultra-religious groups
Oh, my goodness could I NOT get my husband to express nearly as many opinions about much about our wedding...
Though I did go into it with an idea about bi-color medieval or renaissance outfits for the wedding party with the same colors but the combinations of colors changing from one person to the next, but he wanted to wear a tux. Also, I wanted silver accents and he wanted gold accents. So my husband, the groomsmen, wore tuxes with cummerbunds and bow ties in the same color combinations as the bridesmaids walking beside them. I and the bridesmaids wore sleeveless dresses with rennaissance corset bodices. His father wore a suit and his mother wore full rennaissance garb, my mother wore a suit dress, and my father wore his kilt with medieval shirt. My husband's cummerbund and bow tie was gold, along with a ribbon and ring tied onto his candle. My dress, train, and veil had silver accents and a silver rink was tied onto my candle with a silver ribbon. Then our unity candle had a band of gold and silver ribbons woven together with linked gold and silver rings linked into it.
But everything else I asked him about was basically, "whatever you want. hold on what's that? Is that important? That's a decision we need to make?" Boy did I wish he had an opinion.
the only time I'd heard of a groom picking the bride's dress at all was when one woman asked her husband what color made him happy, and he said, "Yellow, like a daffodil." So she wore a yellow dress with a short ruffly bodice and a row of ruffles around the hem, so she could be a daffodil for him.
My husband was very involved in making all the decisions of our wedding because my family did not want any part of our wedding, if I hadn't had him and his family it would have been much harder for me to do.
I have 8 autoimmune diseases that have resulted in physical disability. My original diagnosis took 8 years. It would be very interesting to know how this community would deal with a person who showed no outward sign of illness (except pain and fatigue originally) for a protracted period of time. As they are expected to contribute workwise to the community, would their symptoms be discounted as malingering? Would they have access to good health care?
Edit....I just read the comment below where they were deprived of basic health care needs, so I imagine my life in that community would be full of suffering!
I've seen individuals talk about how horrible any health problems or disabilities are treated. You are right. Life there would be horrible for anyone with any disability or form of illness. Many are made to work through pain and illness and are shamed and have to apologize in front of the community for any impact it has on their work.
As someone above pointed out the young couple who got married on this episode left because the husband and began having seizures and he was accused of faking and it was months effort they allowed him to seek help. The wife is now suing the community.
I've never heard of the husband picking out any wedding gown/reception outfit/etc. My husband didn't see or know what I chose to wear until our wedding day. We did discuss the color of his suit (he chose) and the color of the groomsmen's suits (we decided together). We had a very no-frills, non-traditional wedding though. I had my brother and sister as my wedding party, and he had his two brothers. I let my sister choose the dress she wanted to wear.
Sam, you're on a roll in this video, you just made me LOL twice, and I almost never laugh while watching videos.
Now I wanna hear YOU belly laugh!
Just finished all three episodes and they never cease from the wholesome, glowing picture they portray, but there are a ton of red flags. What happens if there’s abuse? There’s nothing to hold the powerful accountable. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Human beings are bound to have conflict. It’s actually healthy. But there’s no discussion of how they handle that. What happens if someone is gay or trans? Or neurodivergent? What if someone has mental health problems?
(Spoilers⬇️)
Why don’t they talk about the foundation of this group? Why does there seem to be no questioning in the group? A healthy group will have people that question. Why do the teens, who should be individuating, never complain? Why was that little girl terrified about hell? Why is leaving the group *”more final than death?”*
There seems to he a lot they didn’t want to show, which makes me wonder what they don’t want to be seen.
Indeed , there has been alot come about about abuses and there is currently a court case ostensibly about labour rights (ie pay , conditions , hours of work , 'slavery' / servitude etc) but stories of shunning , sexual and physical abuses have come to light . I've posted links here in a couple of places that tell the real stories
I think the group started in the 60s with 6 founding members. An uncle of mine has visited the group on off for the last 20 years.
I picked the colors for my wedding but my husband loved my choice he let me do most of the planning
The founder of this community, Hopeful Christian, is now a convicted sex offender.
His granddaughter, Lilia Tarawa - who is featured in this series has a great interview about what it was like growing up in this community and what was really happening when the cameras weren't there. Its well worth watching after you watch this series.
Knowing God return is near. Don't always make people afraid. If you truly know you are saved by
God's grace, and there is nothing you do to get to heaven except believe. God coming is something to look forward to with joy.
Just a heads up to Aussies There is a doco also available right now on free to air, on SBS on demand. Re this same group.
Aussie slang is forever fascinating to me (a boring American)
I found these docos on Tubi (a free app/service) if it helps any other Aussies 😊
@@mads597👍
It is now been taken to court to see if they are working freely there choice or not and the working conditions as some people have said they were forced to work in conditions not suitable have a look at it
Thank you for the update. We plan to look into a lot more about this group as we did not realize how much information was available.
Yes….my husband was part of the colors….but just like you guys, if I was set on a color, he would have gone along with me.
The activities/employment person here in the building asked us what we wanted to do. I said, not work but volunteer. I love volunteering, but my eyesight sucks right now.
It was started in canterbury New Zealand (the south island in 1969)
In my experience the bride picks the colors, but the guy usually can have input if they feel really strongly about a color
I didn't really have a favorite color, but my husband loves blue so we had light blue and dark blue.
Now days it is much more common for the husband to be to be involved in choosing wedding colours. Some husbands to be do help choose the wedding dress. I didn't have any of those experiences; my husband let me, my mom and his mom choose everything; 24 yrs ago. All my husband said is I don't want to wear a dress coat or tux; so we went with just a vest and tie with dress pants.
I may have randomly heard of that group from a TH-cam video. I have Amazon Prime. It was another group, if only I could remember. I was put on a psych med where I had to have contraep****. because my psych meds caused birth defects.
I'm from NZ. We don't have any polygamists, but we do have these guys. New Zealand, in general, is secular, modern, and a great place to live with no religious intrusion. So most of us see this place as a small blemish on a beautiful place to live. I am an atheist, and almost everyone I know is an atheist or mildly Christian. We respect others' beliefs, but this place is just awful. Not because of their beliefs but because of how people are treated (especially women).
Im from NZ , and I agree with you wholeheartedly !
@Karo Bythell I'm just glad I live here. It's starting to look like the witch trials in "the greatest country on earth." Aren't we really lucky to live here. I'm in Hamilton, so I will say I would appreciate a summer next year... just saying🤣
There are actually some fringe polygamist groups in NZ
I have been following this group for a long time and they are very interesting (not perfect, but who is?). They were the Cooperites to start with (but changed name probably in part because of N Cooper's jail sentence). I think I may have seen this particular series online but not sure and UK Amazon Prime is not showing now it is available. There are pros and cons of all these groups and it is good that both sides - those in there who like it and those who left are free to make their own programmes.
My husband didn’t care about any details of our wedding. He knew I had a vision and let me pick literally everything, including his outfit.
Moo Chews. They definitely work and sell / export quite a few products outside the community.
Gloriavale reminds me a lot of the Hutterites in the US.
Yes I’m pretty sure the man who started this group stayed with them in the US and was inspired that way. But it’s one whole family to one room
Yeah, kind of Hutterites on steroids feeling
Except the Hutterites have their own homes
It’s fascinating to hear your comparisons in lived experiences. Your response seems to be more of a summary of the documentary than a critical unpacking of the content. (No offense intended.) I wonder if you have seen the more recent documentaries? There is also a lot of good news coverage from New Zealand on TH-cam that interviews former members. It really turns on head some of what is shown in these episodes. For instance, the communal working wherein no one gets paid and money goes in to a trust. This is at heart of major court cases in recent years as (mostly former) members describe their experiences as slavery. I went on a TH-cam dive several months ago and there was a lot there.
My husband of 35 years did indeed help with the wedding choices. We mostly made them together but he did have opinions on what he liked and did not like.
They did mention Paul and Pearl were third and fourth generations in gloriavale
I watched a Ted talk from someone who was from Gloriavale. Then I say this documentary which I found interesting.
I saw that Ted talk too! It was riveting and heartbreaking.
the min and the wimin wohkin on the fahm... It is a fascinating video and the accent was such a bonus for me
looks like it would be so interesting to pay them a visit and work with them for a couple of weeks.
The head covering thing is from the Bible (I don’t remember the verse). Mennonites, Hutterites, and the Amish also cover their head for the same reason
It’s in 1 Corinthians…maybe chapter 11
My husband planned our wedding completely. We eloped. We had already started our life together and didn’t necessarily care when/where we got married. I picked a sun dress to wear. It was perfect. I didn’t have to stress about any of it. It was great. We are not fundamentalist Christian though. We already had a house and one child together.
In my experience, the grooms often don't care as much about colors compared to wives. Every couple is different, but typically that's my experience. I did ask my husband about preferences and he requested I leave my hair down, which was the opposite of what I had imagined doing - but that didn't bother me because I wasn't really dressing up for me, exactly. He left his glasses of for me too.
I don't think it would've bothered me if my husband had chosen the dress color. I would've been happy that he was happy.
If you believe that the earth is millions of years old, you should read up on the Mt. Saint Helen's volcano results. The rock layers and fossils formed appear to be millions of years old, much like the Grand Canyon. But we know that it is only a few decades old.
Ever since I first heard of the FLDS, I honestly wondered whether Neville Cooper (founder of Gloriavale) had taken inspiration from them when he created Gloriavale. (It was founded in the early 70s I believe!) Gloriavale isn't polygamous, but everything from the long dresses to the large families and law of consecration is eerily similar. Another big difference is that Gloriavale has a commune set0up where no one earns any money (FYI, this is actually before the courts right now in NZ as to whether they can be called 'volunteers' or if the church needs to compensate them).
I've lived in both the U.S. and NZ, and I honestly wonder whether it would be possible to have a perfect consecration system in the U.S. The U.S. is a highly capitalist country where commune systems are still quite strongly associated with communism, and I'm sure that this impacted the effectiveness of what the FLDS was able to do, as culturally isolated as they were. This is less so the case in NZ, which is a lot more left-leaning and does have quite a long history of communal living.
Did you ever stop to think that the Gloriavale Christian Community, the FLDS, the Amish, the Mennonites, the Hutterites, the River Brethren, the Brethren, the Bruderhof, the Charity Ministries, the Old German Baptist Brethren, the Quakers, the Shakers, the Body of Christ, the Twelve Tribes, the IBLP, do they all have much in common?
The yearly concert they do is a way they get tax exemptions for charities. One of the requirements is that you provide a service for the wider community here in NZ. Religious groups get it if they teach their beliefs to the public.
NZ is such a tiny country 500 church members is huge
Question for Sam. How did the FLDS see the LDS temple(s)?
Were the just random buildings, or were they holy buildings being essentially desecrated by unfaithful people? Or something else?
Hi Faith! Thank you for question. Sam here... we were told that the LDS temples were being run by apostates or gentiles and for that reason, the work being done inside was not valid. We were told that temples were important and that some day the FLDS would also do temple work. We were not taught about the work for the dead and I remember my father laughing at the idea when he heard about it happening in the LDS temples. I'm not sure what the FLDS plan to do in temples as that was not discussed.
Thank you for being a member of our channel! :)
Hi another kiwi commenting here - interestingly right now some ex members are taking Gloriavale to court to try and get compensation for all of the unpaid work that they did - claiming that it is forced and not voluntary - who knows how it will go
I think it woulc be great to live in a small community that regular socializes, and works together in a loving way. My dream community would not be religious other than having simple rules of kindness. It seems like we had some of this in the past. Can't say I know any of my neighbors.
There was a TED Talk by a woman who left Gloriavale. I forget her name but I believe her grandfather founded the group.
Lilia Tawara
Something distinctly different to me about Gloriavale versus FLDS and other extreme religious groups, was that there didn’t seem to be anything “secretive“ about their lives. They open up their community once a year to put on shows for other people, which would make one assume that they have nothing to hide. At least with this show, there was nothing that stood out to as particularly concerning. Clearly, it’s not for everybody, but it seems to work for them.
Alot has come out about the community in the past year that was previously suspected but now the allegations are snowballing and many people leaving for good reason.
That’s too bad. I’ll have to look up the latest stuff.
Trust me, as someone quite connected with the community, that's exactly what they want you to think, but there is a LOT they aren't showing. They are extremely careful about their public image.
Are social media, television, part of every day life? Also do they pay taxes?
No general internet access , mobile phones, TV etc. Even Christian literature and magazines banned . They do manage to get some smuggled in from time to time . Because they are classed as a charitable trust , they have not had to pay taxes from what i have heard. That is under question now.
I was curious if you guys see the LDS as a cult. There’s a couple of times I noticed when talking about or to ex-FLDS/-Order/-AUB members that you all compare it to LDS like it’s the “norm,” which I understand completely. I’ve just been meaning to ask for a few day now. Thanks for all the insight you’ve given.
I'm sure in some ways they do see it as a cult, but I think they make the comparisons since the FLDS has a lot of origins in the LDS and is a branch off. Both were LDS (Sam after he left the FLDS and Melissa raised into it), so it's easy for them to make the comparison to LDS as a basis.
We try to avoid the world cult because of the negative connotation with it and as a way to try and be respectful to our families that are still in both the FLDS and the LDS. However, we do understand that most extreme religions have characteristics that align with the definition of a cult.
@@GrowingUpinPolygamy That makes perfect sense. I believe that my mother-in-law is the last of our family that still subscribes to a religion, and that’s probably bc we’re heathens from the northeast. Secularism is definitely, if nothing else, easier to live in places like NY (near Buffalo) - religion mostly seems to be considered more of a tradition or obligation as opposed to true belief or God-fearing devotion here. I’m sorry if I came off harsh at all in the way I posed the question. And thank you so much for your answer.
@@AZensibleOption fellow northeastern heathen checking in
I don't mean to speak for Sam and Melissa but just to give my two cents as someone with a similar background. I was raised LDS in Utah and from my perspective theres different levels of "cult" - it's a spectrum without a solid definition. There are the isolated groups who want to stay isolated, like the FLDS and Gloriavale. And there are more mainstream groups whose members are not isolated from the world, like Mormons and other conservative religious movements.
I think the more mainstream religious groups (and honestly almost any kind of group or organization, from political parties to fandoms) have the potential for people to develop cult-like mentalities, where people become so devoted to the group that it becomes their whole personality and they have difficulty relating to those on the "outside". But these groups aren't always cults for everyone, if that makes sense. Many members of these groups are independent thinkers and don't always align with the group or allow their entire lives to revolve around their church. I guess what I'm trying to say is from my observation within the LDS, knowing a thousand+ members personally over my lifetime, some have a cult-like relationship with the church, and others do not. Some allow the church to have a cult-level of control over their lives, and others don't. If I'm asked if the LDS is a cult, I say it is sometimes for some people.
I think it depends on the couple.
I thought Gloriavale had been shutdown?
Hutterites are like them. A lot of Christians believe it's coming soon. I think it's not because of how much history of Christianity.
Dinos on the ark...you should visit the Ark Encounter in Kentucky. An interesting theory.
Creationism doesn't sound crazy to me. I am a creationist and a Christian. But I respect christians who aren't creationists.
There is a movie/documentary. It’s fantastic because it’s in a completely different vein to the ones that you’re reviewing now. It’s from the outsider point of view and ex-members trying to get their families out.
Hopeful Christian passed away a couple of years ago and there has been discord amongst the Shepherds since this happened.
They’ve also scammed a lot of benefits off the government of which none of the members have seen. The trust’s charitable status is under review currently so they will have to start tax soon…
Could you please tell me the name of this movie/documentary. Gloriavale 3 Episodes didn’t fool me. All is not right in ‘paradise’.
I became social media friendly with the daughter Miracle and granddaughter Lillia of the cult leader, and if you listen to this story, it’s unbelievable
We look forward to hearing more of the stories from those who have left.
Did I miss something, I've watched this entire documentary now, and the entire thing sounds like a positive ad campaign. Lol I saw some comments about a husband getting sick and not being able to treated etc. I don't see any of that in the doc. Am I possibly watching the wrong show???
It definitely has a very positive vibe to this particular documentary. We are now hearing that there are a lot of stories from those that have left that share some of the darker side of things within the community. We are looking forward to watching and reacting to those as well in the future.
It is a propaganda documentary and I’m intrigued to see initial reactions from Sam and Melissa. I had the same impressions until I studied further also!!😆
@Growing Up in Polygamy I had to investigate after I listened to your video. I knew the Doc. couldn't be right. Thank you for sharing this, I had never heard of the group before. I really enjoy hearing perspectives from the two of you!
It’s perverse that there’s an audience debating consummation
Some of the men in Gloriavale do have jobs outside. I know one guy was a pilot. Some on farms.
Interesting. Thank you for the update!
I stopped this video a few minutes into it; and watched two short documentarys on u-tube by x- Gloriavill residents. Including a pilot. Who reminded me of Sam. Because they both had jobs and good experiences with the outside world before leaving the group they grew up in. Then I continued watching this video.
What is very difficult as you are aware , these closed groups often hide child sexual/physical abuse and domestic violence. As a Child Protective Services Specialist’s investigating reports in these communities is extremely difficult . In our State we have The Old Believers Russian Orthodox , they have several rather large rural communities . They are for the most part very self sufficient raising their own cows, meat and dairy ..they have fishing boats , which provides them subsistence fish .
I wanted my fiancé to help me wedding plan. He gave me certain things he wants. When it came to colors he doesn’t care according to him 😂
I don't have an issue with "surrendering to God"... if they were surrendering to the church- that would raise flags.
I watched a young woman who came from there and she to is on TH-cam about her life in that type of cult
unavailable on prime
It’s there
It's on prime. I had to do a search to find it.
Started in 1969