The audiophile hobby often borders on mysticism, with some of its most devoted followers embracing beliefs that defy reason and physics. My personal favorite is the unwavering conviction that an "audiophile-grade" Ethernet cable dramatically enhances sound quality when streaming music. Never mind that the data packets travel thousands of miles from the streaming service's servers, potentially passing through aging infrastructure and dodgy connections along the way. According to the audiophile gospel, the last meter of cable-yes, the £200-per-meter "audiophile" Ethernet cable-is what truly matters. That final stretch apparently makes an astonishing, almost spiritual, difference in the sound quality. The idea that this short, expensive segment of cable, right before the sound reaches your DAC or streamer, is the critical factor is a fascinating leap of faith. It’s as though the audio world is divided into two realms: the chaotic, compromised data highway, and the mystical, high-fidelity nirvana delivered by that last meter of Ethernet cable. If you believe that, you might just believe anything.
Douglas Self made a comment about people who were objecting to NE5532s being used in his designs were ignoring the fact that any recording of the era was passing through dozens of NE5532s in mixers and other kit.
@frogandspanner One might say that whatever may be the defects of the NE5532, they would be compounded by passing through another one. I might ask Nigel what he thinks of that.
But what about the gold that has been used in my 200 euro per meter ethernet cable? That is going to drastically improve my listening experience, I am sure. I mean the guy in the shop said it would. WOULD HE LIE?? You can just hear the digital information sliding smoothly through the cable to arrive at your D/A. This guarantees that the 40 EU a meter speaker cables will more realistically reproduce the audio. You can just hear it, you know. :D 😅🤣😂
Audiophile, one that can hear things that in a double blind test they never hear again. Oh, their ears got tired from all the testing, things that were so easy to hear before.
My wife came into the living room last night and remarked how great my home theater system sounded while watching a "Rush hour" DVD. I agreed with her. Like your AI pal said, she can hear all those things. I then noticed the volume level on the Marantz AV receiver was higher than ever before.
I was at a live jazz gig last week. A singer and a 4 piece band. It was glorious. Punchy, dynamic sound, completely uncompressed, and if I closed my eyes I could point to where each musician was, and tell how far apart they were from each other. Then, I came home to listen to some recorded jazz on my reasonably good hi-fi. It was a squashed melee of compressed disappointment by comparison. The live performance was streets ahead in terms of soundstage, spatial cues, dynamics, you name it. A sobering wake up call. Recorded music is just a facsimile of live music, a reproduction of that lovely Van Gogh painting with the VGA 256-colour palette, if you will.
The resolution on this videographic recording was masterful. There was some isolated loss of resolution on the lower reach, but the midsection and upper ranges afforded me unparalleled detail, openness, depth, and focus. There was a lack of nuance and definition when conveying the usual suspects. This confirms an analytic performance with some sense of occasional warmth. Is this video the best in class? Not exactly, but it has the ability and confidence to remain close to its competitors and, in some instances, get very close to the more expensive categories of videos. Remember, the only one who needs to like this video is you. 😜😜
Oh lordy, here in Western North Carolina I had to deal with no hifi or a shower for 8 days straight! We got hit bad here from Helene hurricane. I feel super bad for so many that lost their lives and homes. Wife and I were blessed on no home damages. Phone service just came back a few days ago. It was tough not being able to watch these vids or listen to my newest old stock Paraidgm Ver.2 speakers. Yes I am spoiled. Anyway, glad to be back in here. Our national guard has and is still amazing and the locals have provided so much food and water to. All have been outstanding! It has been a crazy ride here.
After listening to hundreds of subjective reviews over the past 5 years, I've reached the conclusion that while "reviewing" a device, most of the audiophile touts are actually critiquing their source recordings. Almost every attribute they rattle on about originates in the source recording, not the doodad being reviewed. This, of course, is why we use test tones and measuring equipment, rather than relying solely upon our hearing when assessing a piece of equipment. One of the worst aspects of the "loudness wars" is that in compressing, limiting, autotuning and quantizing a good musician's work into a wall of excessive distortion, modern recordings are now almost monophonic and seldom have enough channel separation to produce anything beyond a wide phantom centre image. Most recordings from the 70s and 80s do far better. Also: David's trick of dummy loading one speaker while listening to the other with no input also reveals one of the biggest flaws in linear power supplies... Don't be surprised if what you hear from the mute channel (the one with a speaker connected) is a modulated 120hz hum as the power supply dips and recovers with the intensity of the music. Switching supplies being inherently regulated at very high speeds got rid of that quite nicely.
What you said about critiquing recordings is 100% spot on. And it goes way back. Pages on pages in hifi magazines over decades in my case. I've only kept my subscription ti HiFi News, mostly for staying somewhat informed about news in broad terms, and only partially read them. All the other ones are gone. I very much enjoy Erin's audio corner though, not for purchasing advice but for the educational value in comparing listening impressions (he actually talks about what the speakers do) and the Klippel measurements. Much the same with this channel, a bit of help with understanding.
@@thomaslutro5560 Damn ... this is frustrating. I just spent most of half an hour giving you a nice complete answer and it just got up and vanished. Short answer ... Yes, most audio "reviews" are simply advertising and should not be seen as useful beyond that. I've frequently grumbled about the lack of information; various inputs not tested, features not discussed, menus not explored, and so on. I get the distinct impression these guys are hooking the thing up, listening for a couple of minutes, then writing their scripts... with no serious intention to help any of us make better buying decisions. If you are interested in diving further, there are a number of online basic electronics courses you can study and a real wealth of web-based information on various topics. Just be sure that whatever info you take in can be verified outside the audiophile community.
Audiophile is a self annointed title...a good thing to remember when we see $24 switches with a bedazzled treatment to enhance digital audio. I guess happy packets=happy sound. Great vid btw, breaking down catch phrases into actual tech, well done.
regarding sound stage: 1. Cross talk is the least issue. more effective is channels differences with phase and gain variations between frequency. this can be "Easily" Tested when playing back a mono recording, inverting one channel and play back the output in mono Mode. Any signal that you may hear which is different from a white noise would be channel difference plus distortion. both will reduce the sound stage image. 2. Room reflections as well as speaker placement within the room are much more destructive for soundstage than any reasonable and better amplifications/cables. 3. Time delays and etc.: This is tricky. if both channels are exactly match in built, the the sound maybe impacted, but not the sound stage. Symmetrical timing issues has other effects on the sound perception but not on sound stage itself.
Whattt? You’re telling my ten thousand Zeus Apollo amplifier which claims stunning frequencies up to 100k with vapour stereo separation and its maximum wallet capacity is…………audiophile mumbo jumbo! As with anything, manufacturers almost have to wax poetic when they’re selling cables for a grand, and an amplifier for ten thousand dollars. I wonder if the one percent purchase such things to show off more than they actually sit down and listen to it. Once again for your honest and truthful facts regarding audio.
Its really amazing hearing some youtubers rave about the sonic quality of (power)amplifiers, while its only there to amplify the soundsource to a level to drive your speakers. Nothing more, nothing less and without changing or adding anything to the sourcesignal. And then the speakers try to make the best of it in a far from ideal listening room 😂😂😂
My favourite is the way they mystify the audio signal itself, picturing separate instruments and all kinds of frequencies and paths. It's fun to watch when they discover that in fact it is but a single voltage that changes over time ... Literally a roadmap for how to move the speaker cones.
Audiophile speak: The price tag on my gear tells me that it must sound vastly superior to yours. I'll now spout meaningless nonsense ad infinitum to justify my purchase.
Diffraction in the crossover region of a two way speaker system could be perceived as 'smearing in the mid range'. But I do wonder how 'bad' a modern amp would have to be to produce the same results
@@AudioMasterclass Ooh, a naughty little amp. Well, into the corner of shame with it then, where all the bad little amps must learn to not smear the mids
On breadth of sound stage, I can add that going out on my balcony expands what sound stage I'm hearing to match the panorama my eyes pick up (always assuming the recording captures a decent sound stage). The brain is more important than the ears in some respects.
My Standards Committee: Does the sound satify me when playing the Blue Oyster Cult "Secret Treaties" CD at genre appropriate volume levels? If so, I'm in.
Channel balance, cross-talk and group delay distortion should be the only parameters of interest as far as stereo image fidelity is concerned. However, I never see anyone publish the full Bode plot of an amplifier (phase response is always missing). Ideally, there should be a linear phase response across the audio spectrum, but I am not aware of any reviewers or manufacturers who include phase vs. frequency in their bench tests.
Paused to ask a question. I don't expect hearing any crosstalk from my electronics. Though the 25-35dB of a (good) phono cartridge, perhaps? I have some rereleases on CD which sound like they're a bit brutally panned and go to the speakers, where the original LP spreads the band across the full with. Might this be caused by failing to compensate for the far better channel separation in digital formats (in playback)?
I’m only speculating at present but the phasey rumble heard before the audio starts must persist through the whole disc. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to consider this might contribute to a perceived widening of the stereo image. [Edit: Corrected an autotypo]
@@AudioMasterclass This is why most competently designed amplifiers with phono pre-amps in them roll off below about 10hz. Some even have front panel switchable Rumble Filters built in. It is indeed quite the surprise to pop off your grills and see the woofers moving in and out nice and slow like they are trying to swim to freedom.
I didn't mean wide or narrow stage. Rather lack of gradual panning, so that you get sound localized to one speaker or the other with a CD. If there was crosstalk present at the -25 to 35 level, my intuition suggests the image slightly more diffuse and drawn slightly towards centre with the LP, in a way that might be subjectively better. So, compensating for the technical superiority of the CD would mean adding crosstalk to the master.
When Nigel guy talks about "a smearing in the midrange" he could also mean that a curtain that hangs in front of the speakers, so there's a lack of fine dynamics and he cannot hear all the micro-details. The loss of clarity and missing micro-details may also not only be caused by dispersion of the wave packet of sound, but there may also be a significant portion of harmonic wave K2 which veils these details. K2 is particularly produced by NFB-less tube triode amplifiers. So what ape Nigel may think about the moon when observing it? ... ;-)
@@Douglas_Blake_579but modern testing equipment will measure much more than our ears can detect so it's not valid to rely only on measurements because those will exegerrate shortcomings. For instance in the case of amplifiers you can measure a ±0.1 dB deviations across the frequencies from 10 to 100 khz but no one would be able to pass a double blind ABX test of that deviation.
@@l.s.1709 That is actually a good thing. As diagnosticians we are aware of the limits of hearing. We look at these tests and we know when something is below the threshold of hearing. I know for example that you're never going to hear noise below -90db, distortion less than 0.05%, amplitude variations less than 1db ... and so on. In fact one of the main design goals is to get these measurements into the inaudible regions.
Pharmacologist here. You cannot do a double blind test and there is no reason to do it in audio testing. Double blind in a clinical setting means that neither the physician nor the patient knows whether a verum or a placebo is given. Only the supervisor knows. This is done to avoid the expectation of the physician influencing their clinical evaluation of effect. The doc would definitely question an improvent when they know that the pat received the placebo. This is neither needed nor possible when testing audio equipment. It is sufficient that the "golden ear" who evaluates their listening experience is blinded. I did such a test btw with an audiophile friend of mine who claimed his new 1500 $ power cable improves the sound of his equipment significantly. I changed this new power cable against his old "cheap" 50 $ cable 20 times at random (random sequence generated with a computer beforehand) behind his back. In the end, he had 11 misses and 9 hits, pretty much what would be expected for a coin tossing experiment. For some reason he was not happy with this outcome 😊
Agree. Though I think he's overdressed it a bit with a double Windsor here. I'd go four in hand and make very sure to get a proper dimple in the tie too. :D
Cross talk is a real thing but I have a class d amp with speakers built to eliminate cross talk - the Polk Audio L800 speakers that expand the sound stage way outside of the speakers. Right technologies working together for an impressive sound.
None of these reviewers have any clue that the recordings they listen to, and to a very few exceptions, were assembled on a multi-track setup, panned by ear and using all manner of delays and reverbs, multi-channel compressors and "psycho-acoustic spatializers" to simulate "placement". I get mental cramps when I listen to Darko talk about soundstage when 100% of what he listens to is one form or another of Electro. If you're going to talk about player placement and soundstage, make sure your recording was made with an ORTF, Blumlein or coincident pair of cardiods, a Decca Tree or a Neumann KU100, straight to stereo, with nothing else than a limiter and maybe a low-cut filter. These guys are charlatans.
The way stuff is going Kardashev may need to make his scale more granular, lots of steps forward lots of steps back as we enter the possibility of yet another bloody war.
What about smearing in the bass range? Is it actually possible for people to tell? Given the fact that some classic stereo LPs reportedly do have the bass on them in mono as a production trick to keep the needle from jumping out of the groove (or maybe for a similar purpose?), listeners probably cannot tell in the bass range. Will a more smeared bass sound warmer and a less smeared bass sound colder? That sounds more like a question to a synaestheticist.
If two amplifiers sound different, at least one of the amplifiers was poorly designed (exceptions would be tube amps which are great to plug my guitars into, but which are an audio nightmare). Guitarists take advantage of the inherent non-linearities which are not desirable in audio. If an amplifier has a sound, there is something wrong with it.
I now own a neutral pair of Wharfedales with a “warmish” profile and a very accurate and expensive Yamaha integrated. TBH, I prefer the sound of my 1974 vintage KLH Model 35 all in one with a pair of KLH Model 6 loudspeakers. It just seemed more “musical”, whatever that is. That system used 18 gauge lamp cord and a damaged Dual turntable. Yesh , I can hear a mouse fart on this new system, but do I want to?
The thing is with "audiophiles" - whether they're TH-camrs, equipment dealers, or just middle-aged guys with more money than sense - without their "chocolatey mids" and "expansive soundstages" and whatever, they'd quickly run out of things to say about each new device they talk about. They have to use this mumbo jumbo to justify their existence. I like good sound quality, my Crown D75a/Rogers LS3/5a desktop system keeps me happy, and a pair of Def-Tech D17's with an SMSL AO300 amp for my main system...it may not be "audiophile-enough" for some people (not expensive or "esoteric" enough) but it sounds good to me, and that's literally all that matters! We all know that people suffering from "audiophilia" talk an awful lot of shit 😂 Maybe swapping my fuses or power cords would make a miraculous improvement to my soundstage (LOL) but no doubt my systems just aren't resolving enough 😆 To be honest, I wouldn't even WANT a system to be so "resolving" that it would be affected by power cords! Hehehe
I only wish audiophiles would be more specific about what “noise” sounds like to them. Is “noise” hiss, buzz, hum, or anything audible? I recently asked a tube manufacturer to be more specific about power supply “noise.” His response was that noise was from EMF, but still didn’t identify what to listen for. I think RMF would be faint broadcast from radio signals. Is EMF hum?
If someone spends a fortune on exotic hifi stuff I understand that such a person really believes that it makes a difference. You have to be able to explain to yourself why you spend so much money. If someone is happy with it I find it fine. If they try to explain it to me I can't take it seriously but I find it very entertaining every time. Just enjoy it I would say.
I doubt Nigel’s concerns are valid with well made modern electronics. The biggest smearing and other artifacts come from the speakers and room acoustics.
A transient, acoustically, is a sudden loud sound ... like a gunshot or a slam hit on a drum. Electronically it is a sudden spike in output voltage, like you would get by briefly connecting and disconnecting a 1.5v battery across a power amplifier's inputs.
@@jimallen1485 It can be done safely ... Just turn the amplifier gains down to about 1/4. Most modern power amps need 2 volts or more to reach clipping... you're only dumping in 1.5 for a part of a second. It will be LOUD but not typically harmful.
There was a shift in system design about the time the stuidio engineers realized that a CD can output some very high levels... launching the loudness wars. Before that your typical power amp had an input sensitivity for clipping of about 500mv (0.5 volt). The higher drive levels from CDs resulted in a shift to 1 volt and more recently they are drifting towards 2 volts. If you are unsure, I'd advise you to have a technician check your gear to be sure it's not being overdriven. Your best bet is to not run anything at full maximum gain. What I do with my setups is to max out the pre-amp (typically a software control in a DAC or PC) and then adjust the power amplifiers to the maximum listening level my clients are likely to ever use. From there the actual listening level is controlled from the pre-amp volume controls. (Typically this lands everything at about half volume for normal listening)
So, if I understand this correctly, Nigel is giving this amp credit for not screwing something up that it can’t, but the amp does screw something up that a device made this century shouldn’t?
The best amp for a Wilson audio Sasha V (£ 55.000,-)??? Of course the Fosi V3, even its stereo Version for £ 100,-! If I tell this to friends, they are laughing. But it is serious: The Fosi V3 is good enough and the Wilson delivers good and very low power consumption and has a nearly constant Impedance of 6 Ohm. So you simply won’t hear differences between a £ 100,- amp and an amp for £ 80.000,- it is really that simple if you take away the audiophile Mumbo Jumbo - Apart from that, you may save 50 % of the £ 55.000,- by buying just a Pair of KEF Blade 2 - but then you have to spend £ 200,- for the Fosi V3 Monos……
Yep ... cheap audio is getting better... and better audio is getting cheaper ... all the time. It will be interesting to see what happens when they meet.
Unless you can resolve the noise floor youre not trying hard enough . There is an awful lot of heated ,cross talk amongst audiophiles ,But ,only valid if the is the preamp adequate for Jehovah.
As with so much in audio it comes down to the transducers, the only crucial thing, that's not human, in capturing an reproducing. Speaking of not human, this generative AI is so annoyingly out of sync, unnatural, really just a toy at this stage
Happens all the time .... I recently A-B stacked an A07 up against a TS-A75 ... that's $100 vs $1500 ... we actually had to get up and look to see which was playing.
I'm sick of hearing about micro details and buttery smooth whatsits as all 'audiophile reviewers' parrot the same meaningless jargon and when everyone gets bored with micro-details another meaningless phrase becomes important. Which may or not have any relation to micro-details. Perhaps one can only hear micro-details if one is an audiophile and when that goes out of fashion they cease to exist. Personally, I only listen to extremely compressed heavy metal at ear splitting volume and all I can hear is loud ringing in my ears before feeling ill and collapsing unconscious for hours on end. Micro-Details, piffle they don't exist.
Do you do all you people speak in parables for God's sakes it's almost impossible to understand the point you're trying to get across you want to sound intelligent smearing can't you think of a better word can't you pick a better definition to describe what you're not hearing no wonder nobody can understand you people with us Americans that takes one word to say how we feel what do people from England are you Brits it takes a whole freaking sentence to tell how you feel it just makes me feel like I'm watching Harry Potter of all the audio systems I guess your bloody well right
The point of this video is to contrast the flowery words of some audiophiles with technical accuracy. I am trying to interpret Nigel's language into words that fully make sense. You might care to watch the video again in that light.
Howdy. Another useless clip from Audio Masterclass. No point. No message. Only an attempt to ridicule. I think the tie person deserves some credit for delivering categories. Right or wrong, yes. But an honest attempt all the same. Regards.
You do understand that Nigel (The tie person) is not a person at all... right? He is an artificial intelligence, working from scripts written by David for the specific purpose of ridiculing gullible audiophiles.
Smearing can happen when a device (amplifier, etc) cannot react quickly enough to follow the incoming audio signal. I.e. a low "slew rate". The voltage increases, then decreases before the amplifier can reproduce it. But it would have to be a mostly "brain dead" amplifier for that to happen in midrange frequencies around 2khz.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 That isn't smearing as it is described here. The amplifier being unable to reproduce the frequency quickly would basically increase signal noise as the transistor would essentially skip some phase changes or mush together some frequencies as it lacks resolution. The speed of the peroration would not be impacted as the signal would continue to be pushed through at a constant rate. This isn't a digital signal, there is no buffer to store the delayed signal. So either the signal passes at the same speed as all the others or it is transitioned to heat but the signal keeps moving forward. Smearing implies a signal slowdown and that just can't happen in electrical circuits not counting for capacitance but that is a whole other matter.
@@Cyril29a It's not the speed of the electricity that's the issue. It is the response time of the circuitry that is the problem. By way of analogy... you might have a 500 horsepower car, but what good is it in a race if there's a 2 second delay after you press the gas pedal? The car will still go really fast, but it's going to take a long time to get there. Now, what do you think happens if you feed a signal at 10khz into a circuit that can't respond beyond 5khz? Because of the time delay, the circuit will fail to fully respond to the signal resulting in a loss of amplitude and omission of detail above the 5khz limit. ALL electronic devices have limits in how rapidly they can respond to changes in input... Just look up the data sheets for some transistors and op-amps it's actually specified by the manufacturer. It doesn't matter how fast the electricity is moving... it matters how quickly a given component can respond to changes.
We're always making plans for Nigel! We only want what's best for him!
Turned out his future was not in British Steel.
@@AudioMasterclass If it's any consolation, Nigel's whole future is as good as sealed!
You make me want to play that record now, but I’m not sure my stereo amp is up to the job
XTC nice 👍
Nigel is not outspoken
But he likes to speak
And he likes to be spoken to
(in his world)
Nigel is happy in his work
(in his world)
The audiophile hobby often borders on mysticism, with some of its most devoted followers embracing beliefs that defy reason and physics. My personal favorite is the unwavering conviction that an "audiophile-grade" Ethernet cable dramatically enhances sound quality when streaming music. Never mind that the data packets travel thousands of miles from the streaming service's servers, potentially passing through aging infrastructure and dodgy connections along the way. According to the audiophile gospel, the last meter of cable-yes, the £200-per-meter "audiophile" Ethernet cable-is what truly matters. That final stretch apparently makes an astonishing, almost spiritual, difference in the sound quality.
The idea that this short, expensive segment of cable, right before the sound reaches your DAC or streamer, is the critical factor is a fascinating leap of faith. It’s as though the audio world is divided into two realms: the chaotic, compromised data highway, and the mystical, high-fidelity nirvana delivered by that last meter of Ethernet cable. If you believe that, you might just believe anything.
PT Barnum had it right... _"There's a sucker born every minute."_
Douglas Self made a comment about people who were objecting to NE5532s being used in his designs were ignoring the fact that any recording of the era was passing through dozens of NE5532s in mixers and other kit.
@frogandspanner One might say that whatever may be the defects of the NE5532, they would be compounded by passing through another one. I might ask Nigel what he thinks of that.
But what about the gold that has been used in my 200 euro per meter ethernet cable?
That is going to drastically improve my listening experience, I am sure. I mean the guy in the shop said it would.
WOULD HE LIE??
You can just hear the digital information sliding smoothly through the cable to arrive at your D/A.
This guarantees that the 40 EU a meter speaker cables will more realistically reproduce the audio.
You can just hear it, you know. :D 😅🤣😂
My personal favorite is the gold on optical cables-because, naturally, nothing smooths out those unruly photons like a little bling!
Audiophile, one that can hear things that in a double blind test they never hear again. Oh, their ears got tired from all the testing, things that were so easy to hear before.
I dont understand all that rant. Just leave people spent their money and enjoy the hobby their way.
@@PH-gm2qe So how does this stop them. I've done a few test with them and this is what happens.
@@pauldhoff BS
@@PH-gm2qeCertainly people are free to enjoy what they do, but making claims publically that influence others' buying decisions and that is an issue.
Asking my wife to listen to music critically leads to cross talk!
My wife thinks the speaker in a phone is just as good as my budget audiophile system. 🤦
😂
😂😂😂😂
"...there's no explaining what your imagination can make you see and feel. Seems like a dream got me hypnotized."
My wife came into the living room last night and remarked how great my home theater system sounded while watching a "Rush hour" DVD. I agreed with her. Like your AI pal said, she can hear all those things. I then noticed the volume level on the Marantz AV receiver was higher than ever before.
You jest, but your premise is valid.
Amazing how they know what the recording is suppose to sound like. They must have been the audio mixing engineer for that recording.
I was at a live jazz gig last week. A singer and a 4 piece band. It was glorious. Punchy, dynamic sound, completely uncompressed, and if I closed my eyes I could point to where each musician was, and tell how far apart they were from each other. Then, I came home to listen to some recorded jazz on my reasonably good hi-fi. It was a squashed melee of compressed disappointment by comparison. The live performance was streets ahead in terms of soundstage, spatial cues, dynamics, you name it. A sobering wake up call. Recorded music is just a facsimile of live music, a reproduction of that lovely Van Gogh painting with the VGA 256-colour palette, if you will.
Audiophiles can tell you the colour of farts, with certainty.
And their inky black background and transient response!
Indeed yours have a green edge to them with an orange hue for the body.
Mine are brown.
The resolution on this videographic recording was masterful. There was some isolated loss of resolution on the lower reach, but the midsection and upper ranges afforded me unparalleled detail, openness, depth, and focus. There was a lack of nuance and definition when conveying the usual suspects. This confirms an analytic performance with some sense of occasional warmth. Is this video the best in class? Not exactly, but it has the ability and confidence to remain close to its competitors and, in some instances, get very close to the more expensive categories of videos. Remember, the only one who needs to like this video is you. 😜😜
Oh lordy, here in Western North Carolina I had to deal with no hifi or a shower for 8 days straight! We got hit bad here from Helene hurricane. I feel super bad for so many that lost their lives and homes. Wife and I were blessed on no home damages. Phone service just came back a few days ago. It was tough not being able to watch these vids or listen to my newest old stock Paraidgm Ver.2 speakers. Yes I am spoiled.
Anyway, glad to be back in here. Our national guard has and is still amazing and the locals have provided so much food and water to. All have been outstanding! It has been a crazy ride here.
After listening to hundreds of subjective reviews over the past 5 years, I've reached the conclusion that while "reviewing" a device, most of the audiophile touts are actually critiquing their source recordings. Almost every attribute they rattle on about originates in the source recording, not the doodad being reviewed.
This, of course, is why we use test tones and measuring equipment, rather than relying solely upon our hearing when assessing a piece of equipment.
One of the worst aspects of the "loudness wars" is that in compressing, limiting, autotuning and quantizing a good musician's work into a wall of excessive distortion, modern recordings are now almost monophonic and seldom have enough channel separation to produce anything beyond a wide phantom centre image. Most recordings from the 70s and 80s do far better.
Also: David's trick of dummy loading one speaker while listening to the other with no input also reveals one of the biggest flaws in linear power supplies... Don't be surprised if what you hear from the mute channel (the one with a speaker connected) is a modulated 120hz hum as the power supply dips and recovers with the intensity of the music. Switching supplies being inherently regulated at very high speeds got rid of that quite nicely.
What you said about critiquing recordings is 100% spot on. And it goes way back. Pages on pages in hifi magazines over decades in my case. I've only kept my subscription ti HiFi News, mostly for staying somewhat informed about news in broad terms, and only partially read them. All the other ones are gone. I very much enjoy Erin's audio corner though, not for purchasing advice but for the educational value in comparing listening impressions (he actually talks about what the speakers do) and the Klippel measurements. Much the same with this channel, a bit of help with understanding.
@@thomaslutro5560
Damn ... this is frustrating. I just spent most of half an hour giving you a nice complete answer and it just got up and vanished.
Short answer ... Yes, most audio "reviews" are simply advertising and should not be seen as useful beyond that.
I've frequently grumbled about the lack of information; various inputs not tested, features not discussed, menus not explored, and so on. I get the distinct impression these guys are hooking the thing up, listening for a couple of minutes, then writing their scripts... with no serious intention to help any of us make better buying decisions.
If you are interested in diving further, there are a number of online basic electronics courses you can study and a real wealth of web-based information on various topics. Just be sure that whatever info you take in can be verified outside the audiophile community.
Audiophile is a self annointed title...a good thing to remember when we see $24 switches with a bedazzled treatment to enhance digital audio. I guess happy packets=happy sound. Great vid btw, breaking down catch phrases into actual tech, well done.
regarding sound stage:
1. Cross talk is the least issue. more effective is channels differences with phase and gain variations between frequency. this can be "Easily" Tested when playing back a mono recording, inverting one channel and play back the output in mono Mode. Any signal that you may hear which is different from a white noise would be channel difference plus distortion. both will reduce the sound stage image.
2. Room reflections as well as speaker placement within the room are much more destructive for soundstage than any reasonable and better amplifications/cables.
3. Time delays and etc.: This is tricky. if both channels are exactly match in built, the the sound maybe impacted, but not the sound stage. Symmetrical timing issues has other effects on the sound perception but not on sound stage itself.
Gonna try that mono noise
Once again another smoking great video post!
Whattt? You’re telling my ten thousand Zeus Apollo amplifier which claims stunning frequencies up to 100k with vapour stereo separation and its maximum wallet capacity is…………audiophile mumbo jumbo! As with anything, manufacturers almost have to wax poetic when they’re selling cables for a grand, and an amplifier for ten thousand dollars. I wonder if the one percent purchase such things to show off more than they actually sit down and listen to it. Once again for your honest and truthful facts regarding audio.
Its really amazing hearing some youtubers rave about the sonic quality of (power)amplifiers, while its only there to amplify the soundsource to a level to drive your speakers. Nothing more, nothing less and without changing or adding anything to the sourcesignal. And then the speakers try to make the best of it in a far from ideal listening room 😂😂😂
My favourite is the way they mystify the audio signal itself, picturing separate instruments and all kinds of frequencies and paths. It's fun to watch when they discover that in fact it is but a single voltage that changes over time ... Literally a roadmap for how to move the speaker cones.
Nigel sounds like a mask over Tarun of British Audiophile...doesn't it? The phasing and cadence is so Tarun.
Thanks for some fun content. The ChiFi reviews were getting a bit tiresome. 😊
This reminds me of science fiction nonsense like "Amplify the phasing lasers to maximize the quantum leap!"
Audiophile speak: The price tag on my gear tells me that it must sound vastly superior to yours. I'll now spout meaningless nonsense ad infinitum to justify my purchase.
Diffraction in the crossover region of a two way speaker system could be perceived as 'smearing in the mid range'. But I do wonder how 'bad' a modern amp would have to be to produce the same results
I'd say very bad. Very bad indeed. So bad it could only be intentional.
@@AudioMasterclass Ooh, a naughty little amp. Well, into the corner of shame with it then, where all the bad little amps must learn to not smear the mids
@@AudioMasterclass
I'm still trying to puzzle out how Group Delay relates to amplifiers... Speakers yeah... but an amplifier?
On breadth of sound stage, I can add that going out on my balcony expands what sound stage I'm hearing to match the panorama my eyes pick up (always assuming the recording captures a decent sound stage). The brain is more important than the ears in some respects.
My Standards Committee:
Does the sound satify me when playing the Blue Oyster Cult "Secret Treaties" CD at genre appropriate volume levels? If so, I'm in.
Your committee has indeed a very high standards which I approve! 😅
Especially if can be hit 100dB+ on Astronomy build up ✌️
Channel balance, cross-talk and group delay distortion should be the only parameters of interest as far as stereo image fidelity is concerned. However, I never see anyone publish the full Bode plot of an amplifier (phase response is always missing). Ideally, there should be a linear phase response across the audio spectrum, but I am not aware of any reviewers or manufacturers who include phase vs. frequency in their bench tests.
Paused to ask a question. I don't expect hearing any crosstalk from my electronics. Though the 25-35dB of a (good) phono cartridge, perhaps? I have some rereleases on CD which sound like they're a bit brutally panned and go to the speakers, where the original LP spreads the band across the full with. Might this be caused by failing to compensate for the far better channel separation in digital formats (in playback)?
I’m only speculating at present but the phasey rumble heard before the audio starts must persist through the whole disc. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to consider this might contribute to a perceived widening of the stereo image. [Edit: Corrected an autotypo]
Short answer .... Yes.
@@AudioMasterclass
This is why most competently designed amplifiers with phono pre-amps in them roll off below about 10hz. Some even have front panel switchable Rumble Filters built in.
It is indeed quite the surprise to pop off your grills and see the woofers moving in and out nice and slow like they are trying to swim to freedom.
I didn't mean wide or narrow stage. Rather lack of gradual panning, so that you get sound localized to one speaker or the other with a CD. If there was crosstalk present at the -25 to 35 level, my intuition suggests the image slightly more diffuse and drawn slightly towards centre with the LP, in a way that might be subjectively better. So, compensating for the technical superiority of the CD would mean adding crosstalk to the master.
@@thomaslutro5560
It could. But if you also have the pre-mix recordings you can re-pan it.
Nigel seems like the kind of guy I’d love to have a beer with.
😂
He's certainly hotter than Audio Phil! Kinda cute for a geek, actually!
... and talk about black holes and supernovae ...
He sound like one of those no-it-all-s but if he is buying...
When Nigel guy talks about "a smearing in the midrange" he could also mean that a curtain that hangs in front of the speakers, so there's a lack of fine dynamics and he cannot hear all the micro-details. The loss of clarity and missing micro-details may also not only be caused by dispersion of the wave packet of sound, but there may also be a significant portion of harmonic wave K2 which veils these details. K2 is particularly produced by NFB-less tube triode amplifiers. So what ape Nigel may think about the moon when observing it? ... ;-)
You want me to comment? Okay, I'll comment.
The only way to confirm the presence of these effects is through a double-blind ABX test.
You’re no fun.
They're generally pretty visible on electronic test equipment, too. (That's why we have it)
@@Douglas_Blake_579but modern testing equipment will measure much more than our ears can detect so it's not valid to rely only on measurements because those will exegerrate shortcomings. For instance in the case of amplifiers you can measure a ±0.1 dB deviations across the frequencies from 10 to 100 khz but no one would be able to pass a double blind ABX test of that deviation.
@@l.s.1709
That is actually a good thing.
As diagnosticians we are aware of the limits of hearing. We look at these tests and we know when something is below the threshold of hearing.
I know for example that you're never going to hear noise below -90db, distortion less than 0.05%, amplitude variations less than 1db ... and so on.
In fact one of the main design goals is to get these measurements into the inaudible regions.
Pharmacologist here. You cannot do a double blind test and there is no reason to do it in audio testing. Double blind in a clinical setting means that neither the physician nor the patient knows whether a verum or a placebo is given. Only the supervisor knows. This is done to avoid the expectation of the physician influencing their clinical evaluation of effect. The doc would definitely question an improvent when they know that the pat received the placebo. This is neither needed nor possible when testing audio equipment. It is sufficient that the "golden ear" who evaluates their listening experience is blinded. I did such a test btw with an audiophile friend of mine who claimed his new 1500 $ power cable improves the sound of his equipment significantly. I changed this new power cable against his old "cheap" 50 $ cable 20 times at random (random sequence generated with a computer beforehand) behind his back. In the end, he had 11 misses and 9 hits, pretty much what would be expected for a coin tossing experiment. For some reason he was not happy with this outcome 😊
Where did Nigel get that tie? I would love one!
I think he might have knitted it himself. Look out for merch coming.
Agree. Though I think he's overdressed it a bit with a double Windsor here. I'd go four in hand and make very sure to get a proper dimple in the tie too. :D
Cross talk is a real thing but I have a class d amp with speakers built to eliminate cross talk - the Polk Audio L800 speakers that expand the sound stage way outside of the speakers. Right technologies working together for an impressive sound.
None of these reviewers have any clue that the recordings they listen to, and to a very few exceptions, were assembled on a multi-track setup, panned by ear and using all manner of delays and reverbs, multi-channel compressors and "psycho-acoustic spatializers" to simulate "placement". I get mental cramps when I listen to Darko talk about soundstage when 100% of what he listens to is one form or another of Electro. If you're going to talk about player placement and soundstage, make sure your recording was made with an ORTF, Blumlein or coincident pair of cardiods, a Decca Tree or a Neumann KU100, straight to stereo, with nothing else than a limiter and maybe a low-cut filter. These guys are charlatans.
I voice my comments about the wife at minus 427dB LUFS. Stay safe, guys! 😂😂
Smoke a joint and not worry about it.
Oh is Betty out and Nigel in? Huh
The way stuff is going Kardashev may need to make his scale more granular, lots of steps forward lots of steps back as we enter the possibility of yet another bloody war.
Oh yes, amplifiers that oscillate and oscillators that don’t 😂
What about smearing in the bass range? Is it actually possible for people to tell? Given the fact that some classic stereo LPs reportedly do have the bass on them in mono as a production trick to keep the needle from jumping out of the groove (or maybe for a similar purpose?), listeners probably cannot tell in the bass range. Will a more smeared bass sound warmer and a less smeared bass sound colder? That sounds more like a question to a synaestheticist.
If two amplifiers sound different, at least one of the amplifiers was poorly designed (exceptions would be tube amps which are great to plug my guitars into, but which are an audio nightmare). Guitarists take advantage of the inherent non-linearities which are not desirable in audio. If an amplifier has a sound, there is something wrong with it.
I bet nigel has an iphone and a mac
I now own a neutral pair of Wharfedales with a “warmish” profile and a very accurate and expensive Yamaha integrated. TBH, I prefer the sound of my 1974 vintage KLH Model 35 all in one with a pair of KLH Model 6 loudspeakers. It just seemed more “musical”, whatever that is. That system used 18 gauge lamp cord and a damaged Dual turntable.
Yesh , I can hear a mouse fart on this new system, but do I want to?
If you're a mouse I suppose?
If your speakers have a "warmish profile" they are not neutral.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 I put it in quotes because I am not convinced that they are. They seem neutral to me, but reviewers call them that.
@@billd9667
Okay ... Got it... my bad.
The thing is with "audiophiles" - whether they're TH-camrs, equipment dealers, or just middle-aged guys with more money than sense - without their "chocolatey mids" and "expansive soundstages" and whatever, they'd quickly run out of things to say about each new device they talk about. They have to use this mumbo jumbo to justify their existence. I like good sound quality, my Crown D75a/Rogers LS3/5a desktop system keeps me happy, and a pair of Def-Tech D17's with an SMSL AO300 amp for my main system...it may not be "audiophile-enough" for some people (not expensive or "esoteric" enough) but it sounds good to me, and that's literally all that matters! We all know that people suffering from "audiophilia" talk an awful lot of shit 😂 Maybe swapping my fuses or power cords would make a miraculous improvement to my soundstage (LOL) but no doubt my systems just aren't resolving enough 😆 To be honest, I wouldn't even WANT a system to be so "resolving" that it would be affected by power cords! Hehehe
Somebody who write lol with cables and fuses is a idiot and dont deserve more
well done
J use a cromebook with b&w px2 headphones. With usb c.
Good sound.
❤from Denmark
Did he buy that Tie in a mid range sale from the designer shop SMEAR .
Intimacies of Audiophiles and Music are equivalent to someone describing making love there will definitely things that both offend and excite ......
I only wish audiophiles would be more specific about what “noise” sounds like to them. Is “noise” hiss, buzz, hum, or anything audible? I recently asked a tube manufacturer to be more specific about power supply “noise.” His response was that noise was from EMF, but still didn’t identify what to listen for. I think RMF would be faint broadcast from radio signals. Is EMF hum?
EMF == ElectroMotive Force ... i.e. Power... Power supply noise is usually a 120 hz hum.
Why not use pro amps? Doubt if Deutsche Grammophon uses Linn or chi-fi amp for playback.
If someone spends a fortune on exotic hifi stuff I understand that such a person really believes that it makes a difference. You have to be able to explain to yourself why you spend so much money. If someone is happy with it I find it fine. If they try to explain it to me I can't take it seriously but I find it very entertaining every time. Just enjoy it I would say.
I doubt Nigel’s concerns are valid with well made modern electronics. The biggest smearing and other artifacts come from the speakers and room acoustics.
Just wait until Nigel gets to talk about that.
If you hear something out of place in the music it's probably something in the room rattling
I still have problems to detect transient. Even though read the meaning, I cannot detect it
A transient, acoustically, is a sudden loud sound ... like a gunshot or a slam hit on a drum. Electronically it is a sudden spike in output voltage, like you would get by briefly connecting and disconnecting a 1.5v battery across a power amplifier's inputs.
Please don't do that battery thing... the results could be very bad. 😮@@Douglas_Blake_579
@@jimallen1485
It can be done safely ... Just turn the amplifier gains down to about 1/4. Most modern power amps need 2 volts or more to reach clipping... you're only dumping in 1.5 for a part of a second. It will be LOUD but not typically harmful.
Funny one, this time.
Audiophile is audiofooled
... by guys like Nigel ...
Please bring Betty back. Nigel sucks.
At the end of my previous video Betty had words with Nigel.
@@AudioMasterclass say no more!
Ahahahah, a very good one.
He keeps referring to "modern equipment." I need some reference. Is my 35 y.o. Adcom GFA-555II considered modern?
If neither you nor your audiophile friend can hear any defects then it is sufficiently modern for your purpose.
There was a shift in system design about the time the stuidio engineers realized that a CD can output some very high levels... launching the loudness wars.
Before that your typical power amp had an input sensitivity for clipping of about 500mv (0.5 volt). The higher drive levels from CDs resulted in a shift to 1 volt and more recently they are drifting towards 2 volts.
If you are unsure, I'd advise you to have a technician check your gear to be sure it's not being overdriven.
Your best bet is to not run anything at full maximum gain. What I do with my setups is to max out the pre-amp (typically a software control in a DAC or PC) and then adjust the power amplifiers to the maximum listening level my clients are likely to ever use. From there the actual listening level is controlled from the pre-amp volume controls. (Typically this lands everything at about half volume for normal listening)
If Tits McGee were Jewish, his last name would be Cohen.
Fun as usual, thanks.
Audiophilia
It sounds great, up until someone convinces you it could sound better.
---
So, if I understand this correctly, Nigel is giving this amp credit for not screwing something up that it can’t, but the amp does screw something up that a device made this century shouldn’t?
You’d have to ask Nigel. I’m just trying to interpret.
@@AudioMasterclass Nice and snarky, but I was trying to simplify YOUR description of Nigel’s video for us non-technical fans.
The best amp for a Wilson audio Sasha V (£ 55.000,-)???
Of course the Fosi V3, even its stereo Version for £ 100,-!
If I tell this to friends, they are laughing. But it is serious: The Fosi V3 is good enough and the Wilson delivers good and very low power consumption and has a nearly constant Impedance of 6 Ohm. So you simply won’t hear differences between a £ 100,- amp and an amp for £ 80.000,- it is really that simple if you take away the audiophile Mumbo Jumbo - Apart from that, you may save 50 % of the £ 55.000,- by buying just a Pair of KEF Blade 2 - but then you have to spend £ 200,- for the Fosi V3 Monos……
Yep ... cheap audio is getting better... and better audio is getting cheaper ... all the time. It will be interesting to see what happens when they meet.
Obviously Nigel is AI!
oh my god he's not real??
what about betty?
Unless you can resolve the noise floor youre not trying hard enough . There is an awful lot of heated ,cross talk amongst audiophiles ,But ,only valid if the is the preamp adequate for Jehovah.
Why Nigel looks just like me??? 😫😖😣
Could it be that you are AI-generated?
@@AudioMasterclass Oh man... 😖Why this is happening to me???!!
As with so much in audio it comes down to the transducers, the only crucial thing, that's not human, in capturing an reproducing.
Speaking of not human, this generative AI is so annoyingly out of sync, unnatural, really just a toy at this stage
Auditioned Orchard mono
ultra 500w@4ohms $2.5k
Against Benchmark AHB2
monoblocks bridged $3.5k
Orchard is much better 😮
Happens all the time .... I recently A-B stacked an A07 up against a TS-A75 ... that's $100 vs $1500 ... we actually had to get up and look to see which was playing.
Orchidal oration
Apparently someone is talking bollocks.
@@AudioMasterclass I knew my O level Latin would come in useful some day.
Enough of Nigel and his nonsense. We want more of Betty and whatever her name is?
Debbie is now upset and has gone into hiding.
@@AudioMasterclass hit the undelete key
I'm sick of hearing about micro details and buttery smooth whatsits as all 'audiophile reviewers' parrot the same meaningless jargon and when everyone gets bored with micro-details another meaningless phrase becomes important. Which may or not have any relation to micro-details. Perhaps one can only hear micro-details if one is an audiophile and when that goes out of fashion they cease to exist. Personally, I only listen to extremely compressed heavy metal at ear splitting volume and all I can hear is loud ringing in my ears before feeling ill and collapsing unconscious for hours on end. Micro-Details, piffle they don't exist.
Do you do all you people speak in parables for God's sakes it's almost impossible to understand the point you're trying to get across you want to sound intelligent smearing can't you think of a better word can't you pick a better definition to describe what you're not hearing no wonder nobody can understand you people with us Americans that takes one word to say how we feel what do people from England are you Brits it takes a whole freaking sentence to tell how you feel it just makes me feel like I'm watching Harry Potter of all the audio systems I guess your bloody well right
The point of this video is to contrast the flowery words of some audiophiles with technical accuracy. I am trying to interpret Nigel's language into words that fully make sense. You might care to watch the video again in that light.
Think of it as what those wine tasters do, just don't sniff you speakers. not a good look.
A.I. BULL SHIIIIIIIII
Howdy.
Another useless clip from Audio Masterclass. No point. No message. Only an attempt to ridicule.
I think the tie person deserves some credit for delivering categories. Right or wrong, yes. But an honest attempt all the same.
Regards.
You do understand that Nigel (The tie person) is not a person at all... right?
He is an artificial intelligence, working from scripts written by David for the specific purpose of ridiculing gullible audiophiles.
Smearing is nonesense. The signals travel nearly at the speed of light... There is zero chance we could ever perceive anything like this
Smearing can happen when a device (amplifier, etc) cannot react quickly enough to follow the incoming audio signal. I.e. a low "slew rate". The voltage increases, then decreases before the amplifier can reproduce it. But it would have to be a mostly "brain dead" amplifier for that to happen in midrange frequencies around 2khz.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 That isn't smearing as it is described here. The amplifier being unable to reproduce the frequency quickly would basically increase signal noise as the transistor would essentially skip some phase changes or mush together some frequencies as it lacks resolution. The speed of the peroration would not be impacted as the signal would continue to be pushed through at a constant rate. This isn't a digital signal, there is no buffer to store the delayed signal. So either the signal passes at the same speed as all the others or it is transitioned to heat but the signal keeps moving forward. Smearing implies a signal slowdown and that just can't happen in electrical circuits not counting for capacitance but that is a whole other matter.
@@Cyril29a
It's not the speed of the electricity that's the issue. It is the response time of the circuitry that is the problem.
By way of analogy... you might have a 500 horsepower car, but what good is it in a race if there's a 2 second delay after you press the gas pedal? The car will still go really fast, but it's going to take a long time to get there.
Now, what do you think happens if you feed a signal at 10khz into a circuit that can't respond beyond 5khz? Because of the time delay, the circuit will fail to fully respond to the signal resulting in a loss of amplitude and omission of detail above the 5khz limit.
ALL electronic devices have limits in how rapidly they can respond to changes in input... Just look up the data sheets for some transistors and op-amps it's actually specified by the manufacturer.
It doesn't matter how fast the electricity is moving... it matters how quickly a given component can respond to changes.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Yes but that isn't how it is described in the video
@@Cyril29a
Actually it is. I'm looking at the cause.