See with your own eyes hear with your own ears, the damaging effects offgassing has on vinyl records
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- See with your own eyes hear with your own ears, the damaging effects offgassing, ghosting or hazing can have on your precious vinyl records. Today I’ll play a record for you so you can hear the damaging effects off gassing, ghosting, or hazing can have on your vinyl records.
I've spent 20 years in manufacturing using pvc, making medical tubing . Pvc gasses off, not polyethylene . The record got hot at one point and the poly sleeve trapped the toxic fumes and the record suffered from it. oddly though, if it was a paper sleeve which is porous, it most likely would not have been so severe. Speaks loads about proper vinyl care from hot temps, and no i dont know how hot the temp would have to get. Also, some pvc's have plastisizers added which can also leach out and do some interesting stuff😢
Hi Mike. I really enjoyed the information you shared with us. Thanks for clearing up the misconception that polyethylene gases off. Suffocation causing a chemical reaction makes total sense as you stated. We really appreciate you taking the time to watch our video and contribute some very useful information to us and our viewers. Love to hear from you anytime. Take care.
Steve
But what i wonder i got an record from The Motions - Introducing the motions and this record has always misting. All 26 times i got it it has this problem. It has to be something in the plastic inner disintegrating over the years. Also their are no solutions for now to get rid of it once it has appeared.
@RubenEditIT Sorry to hear about your misfortune, Ruben. I can relate. Thank you for sharing. ✌🏽
The one thing many people miss when this happens. Look at the staining on the opening of the sleeve where the record comes out. That is Nicotine staining. The nicotine and the pvc inner sleeve reacts with each other causing this to happen. I went to look at a collection that was up for sale. The owner was a heavy smoker and every record I looked at that had the pvc inners had this issue. The paper sleeves and poly sleeved records did not. But they all smelled of smoke. I have come across this many of times when the past owners where smokers.
@@twisted2291 Thanks for sharing that! That great information for us collectors/bulk buyers to take with us on prospective purchases. I can see what you mean by the nicotine stained inner sleeve. I mistakenly thought because the outer cover itself is in such nice condition that smoke was not involved. Now I can clearly see The Marlboro Man 💨 was the full time DJ 😂. Thank you for sharing your insights with us. Every thing we learn along the way helps us. ✌🏽
Steve
Poly vinyl chloride (pvc) is a serious problem. Luckily however - and this is important - almost no US or UK inner sleeves of the 50's through 80's ever used pvc. Usually PVC was a record outer cover used by libraries and some collectors (often in the UK I note). Island, Decca, Polydor, London, et al always used polypropylene liners for their sleeves, which is very stable and poses no problems to vinyl by itself. In the mid 1970's polyethylene (incorrectly referred to as rice or tracing paper) became the norm. This too is very stable and poses no problems with vinyl by itself. In 50 years of collecting and thousands of records using these poly lined inners, I've never had a problem with hazing or fogging, with the exceptions noted below. Now for the big caveat -- what causes fogging to vinyl using those sleeves? We did testing on this years ago. A foreign or external chemical catalyst that got between the poly and vinyl. Every case with sticking liners and/or fogging to the vinyl was due to a) the use of a cleaner used on the record at some point in its prior life that was not thoroughly rinsed off, and/or b) an environmental factor where the records were kept or stored over time, i.e. aerosol carbon and oil residues from home heating systems or stove top cooking, smoking, use of wood fireplaces etc. Generally you'll find that records using both types of poly lined sleeves - as long as they were kept clean and stored in a relatively dry and temperature stable evironment - will be absolutely free of fogging. Getting back to record cleaners; back in the 60's and 70's a popular method of cleaning records was a record cleaning cloth available at many audio stores. A common ingredient to these was an alkali (mild soap or detergent basically) embedded with a base. The clothes had a very slightly oily or damp feel to them. Users typically wiped or polished the record clean, then, without a thorough rinsing, popped the record back in its sleeve. A touch of humidity plus some air particulate - mixed with a little time - and all the ingredients were in place to oxidize and cause outgassing of both the vinyl itself and the poly. Incidentally, the same outgassing and chemical oxidation concerns exist with the conservation of other materials; from papers to textiles to paints and so on.
Wow Texeq! That was highly informative and educational! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your expert knowledge. I’m literally going to study your comments over and over so I can remember them and help guide others in the right direction. Thanks again for your great contribution to our viewers. ✌🏽
Steve
Just a note about record misting. The misting of records may well be caused by the Shrink Wrap. The majority of shrink wrap materials are made from PVC which could well be a major cause of the misting. I had a double album that was in shrink, had HDPE inner and outer sleeves and had misting on both albums on the outer groove sides only. I am removing all of the shrink-wrap from all of my albums that have shrink on them and I suggest everyone does the same. I would also avoid the PVC inner and outer sleeves too, just in case.
@@peterrech2307 Hi Peter. I usually remove shrink wrap. I need to go through and check for albums in shrink wrap that have been forgotten about. Thanks for sharing that important information with us. ✌🏽
Steve
@@TheVinylRecordMission YW
I'm amazed that offgassing wasn't discovered and dealt with decades ago, particularly as it seems to be very old pvc sleeves that are the main culprit. How strange that this seems to be a modern dilemma rather than a notable problem arising in the 60's or 70's. If it had been brought to light years ago, just think how many of the older (and unfortunately rarer and much more expensive) records could have been saved if only we had had that knowledge way back when the destructive element was prevalent. I would bet that most collectors have lost at least one or two, maybe more, great records due to the very protection we thought they were getting...
Hello iainneville! I agree with you 100%. This video I posted has taught me a lot more than I bargained for. The many comments I’ve received from so many intelligent people (including you) have opened my eyes to so many possibilities. You’re right, the industry should have took it upon itself to prevent this from happening in the first place. Once they got wind of the damaging effects of PVC they should have immediately condemned that material from being used in the industry as a whole. I came to the following conclusion. Record manufacturers never thought that their records would never be opened. It probably never dawned on them that people would collect sealed records. And I’m sure there was zero research that went into the many possible chemical reactions that might occur when using PVC to protect vinyl records. Is it merely an industry oversight? Yes, and no. There is so much money involved in the production of music and vinyl. There are so many people who have to be paid making profit margins difficult to maintain. Research costs a lot of money as does using more expensive materials of a higher quality. I am almost positive that PVC inners were chosen for cost effective reasons. I’ve only come to these conclusions after taking into consideration the many comments I received regarding the matter. we can only hope that things improve moving forward and until then do our due diligence to protect our collections. Thank you so much for watching and commenting. Your contribution is greatly appreciated. ✌🏽
Steve
@TheVinylRecordMission That was a fantastic and detailed reply. Thank you so much. I agree with the points you raise entirely. I think cost, time and research are definately the defining factors here. Its such a shame that this is a major problem for (I assume) most collectors and the effects are irreversible. Diligence is the key. All the best and thanks again...
London/Decca UK Polylined sleeves pre 1975, are the poster child for this problem. In 1975, the inner was switched to rice paper, no issues with those.
I’m glad they switched over.
I think this case is very different from the Rick Lee Jones video. In that case the record was sealed so it’s a clear manufacturing issue involving the Mofi processes or inner sleeve quality. In the case of this Jethro record, it’s an old record that could be belonged to dozens of people. I would say that it’s more probably that it was damaged by a cleaning product badly removed than the degasing migration from the polilyne inner. I know that many people clean their records with chemical products (dry cleaning) but if it’s not well removed before stored, it could easily cause these kind of failures.
Good point Ricardo. 👍🏽👍🏽
I’ve seen this happen and not impact play, and I’ve seen it have major impact on playback. I have a Johnny Cash reissue from the late 1990s or early 2000s on “virgin vinyl,” that was house in a clear PVC sleeve and nothing else, and it not only suffered from off gassing, but the record has noise throughout. After ultrasonic cleaning, no improvement. That bummed me out because the record was a gift.
That’s too bad. Sorry to hear about your Johnny Cash reissue being ruined. Such a bummer. Appreciate you sharing your experience with us. ✌🏽
I've bought vintage UK albums with those same exact UK inner sleeves. No hazing at all. It's strange the haze is not on the complete record, only on the outer portion of both sides. Could it have at one time been stored in a PVC outer sleeve, and that's what caused the damage? I'd say yes, very possible. I remember circa 1980 Tower records was selling heavy outer PCV sleeves.
You may have nailed it! This record in fact came re-sealed by Amoeba in a PVC outer sleeve. The record was not sealed. It had been opened and stored in a thick PVC outer sleeve for many years I guess. Thanks for mentioning that. Maybe it wasn’t the poly lined inner sleeve that caused the haze. Great comment! Thank you. 🙏🏽
Steve
That copy there was pressed by Phonodisc. (I can tell because I am a dork.) I have seen a lot of Phonodisc pressings with those "suffocation hazard" inner sleeves, and those inner sleeves usually do not do that to those 70s Phonodisc pressings (that used that vinyl compound). I have seen other old UK poly-lined inners leave permanent marks on records, but those were fairly good ones.
However, that is absolutely the kind of thing a PVC outer (yes, outer) sleeve would do to a record. The PVC off-gassing would get to the discs through unlaminated jacket walls. In cases of record jackets which only had a laminated front, only the side stored up against the front would get ghosted. (Parlogram has an excellent video on this.) I think someone had that album in a PVC outer back in the day to preserve the awesome newspaper jacket-which is unlaminated. I think the variations in the sleeve's thickness due to where it folds are the reason the entire sides aren't like that.
P.S. Hilarious intro!
Hi JWD. I really appreciate your informative and educational response. After reading your comment and the previous comment I remembered the this album was inside a ploy outer sleeve and then inside a thick PVC outer sleeve that was taped shut. No lamination on front or back of this cover explains why both sides were sent to the gas chamber 😂. Awesome of you to focus on the issue at hand and not turn it into a circus about having sealed records in my collection. Glad you enjoyed the bathroom humor. 🤣✌🏽
Steve
I'm learning more and more after watching every video. Some of the more knowledgeable comments provide excellent information. We're dealing with an imperfect medium, so these situations will occur.
I agree there have been some highly informative comments from highly knowledgeable folks. I’ve learned loads myself. Glad the video can help others.
I discovered this phenomena last year with my Led Zeppelin Mothership box set, this may have been the gateway for all of these pvc problems
That’s how I discovered it too. Fortunately my LZ Mothership Box Set had only slight offgas which I was able to clean off.
The inner sleeve you have shown is exactly the inner sleeve I was referring to in my comment on your Floyd vid. The 'Plastic bag can be dangerous ' inner was used on a huge amount of records by various UK labels from the mid 60s to mid 70s. That particular inner changed around 1972/73, from the heavier poly to the lighter lighter poly. I see JWD 1992 makes mention of the Phonodisc period and they introduced that lighter poly which feels more like the material you'd find on a mofi etc sleeve. I've never seen ghosting on a record with that Phonodisc period inner. The poly used in the 65 to 72 period is the one that causes offgassing. I mentioned some of the labels that used sleeves with that particular poly liner and it includes records released by many of the most sought after UK groups. UK originals with those poly liner inners... Zeppelin (Atlantic), Hendrix (Track), Floyd (Harvest), Stones (Decca). Chrysalis was connected to Island so they both used that sleeve and you know how many sought after artists are on those labels. Vertigo, Decca, Deram used the same poly inner...rarities for days. So, the good news. If I was taking a conservative guess I would say I have potentially 1000+ records with those inner sleeves. How many have ghosting due to being held in those sleeves since the 60s, early 70s? Less than 10! So those particular poly lined inners can result in ghosting but still in the minority of records. I'd scare you Steve if I told you just how many valuable records I still have stored in those inners 🥴. Sorry, very long reply but had to give you the perspective/ observations of a UK collector (geek/nerd ☺️) very familiar with these UK sleeves . Cheers Nige
Thanks Nigel! I always appreciate your respectful informative perspective/observation. I agree that the outer PVC is the main culprit and not the UK inners. I feel better knowing that. 😅 Appreciate your contribution buddy. ✌🏽
Man you arent kidding, that thing is haunted. Im sorry this one turned up hazy. I do go through and check for stuff like this ever so often. Ive been luck so far. Have a great weekend and happy hunting Steve and Co.
Thanks DBD. Such a bummer. It’s not one of my favorite records but is an iconic pressing of it. At least the newspaper cover is NM. ✌🏽
Have a great weekend too.
It is PVC (poly vinyl chloride) outer (not inner) sleeves. PVC uses phthalates (or elasticizers) to soften the PVC. The elasticizer in certain formulations leaches out of the sleeve in the form of gas. This gas is toxic and will go right through paper jackets and inner sleeves amd damage the record. At this point the use of PVC in items like medical devices and childrens toys (remember those soft plastic teething toys you could freeze?). It is still used in the record industry, most commonly as jackets for picture disks.
@@drbryant23 yep. This one clearly sat in a PVC outer sleeve for many years. ✌🏽
2:43 I mean if this isn't sufficient evidence of ghosting/off gassing, I don't know what is. Arguing with ghosting deniers is like arguing with flat earthers; it's utterly hopeless.
Some people are impossible to deal with. I know first where you’re coming from. Thanks for supporting the truth and watching our video. ✌🏽
I live in Sevilla, in the south of Spain, a very hot city.
I can testify that offgassing exists as a combination of high temperatures plus PVC sleeves.
It has affected more that a hundred of my LPs, especially those made in the mid to late 80s.
In particular, my Meteors records, my Ugly Things recops of Australian 60s rock (Raven label), and the Lysergic Emanations LP by The Fuzztones...
Hi Manuel. Sorry to hear that. I’ve hear that climate conditions can cause more off gassing than normal. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts with us.
Steve
I had a 12 inch Promotional issue of Herb Alpert’s “8 Ball” single, and it was trashed because of this issue.
What a bummer! Such a great tune of his. Thanks for checking out our video and taking the time to comment. ✌🏽
I have a clear vinyl 12 inch promo of "Rise" which came in that same awful PVC sleeve; thankfully when I purchased it about ten years ago it wasn't that bad and I was able to save it in time. I have the record stored in a generic sleeve and have kept the OG sleeve far, far away from it.
This being a Uk reissue it has the standard inner sleeve. I’ve loads of records from the late 70s and 80s with these inner sleeves
with no issues. My 1972 copy of Thick As A Brick has very plain white inner sleeve with no lining. Because of how fragile the album
cover is it was probably sold with a pvc sleeve. It would have been a very tight fit.
Hi Kevin. You’re right it was in a sealed PVC outer sleeve for many years. It came in a collection of 1100 record I bought in 2022. It was purchased at Amoeba Records in Hollywood many years ago. Even they knew it had ghosting/hazing on it. They wrote in black sharpie on the very PVC outer sleeve that made it even worse 😳😂 Learning new lessons everyday. Thanks for commenting and watching. ✌🏽
Steve
Would this be a problem with new poly sleeves? I re-sleeved my records about 5 years ago with new poly sleeves. I just checked a handful of them and they seem okay but am wondering if I should replace them with paper sleeves.
As long as your sleeves are not made from PVC you should be fine.
Steve
We use plastic bags where I work and the new bags have a substance on them that makes your hands dirty which is very noticeable on white cotton gloves.
The substance is like a fine chalk/talcum powder, I think it is used to stop the bags sticking to the machinery when being made.
I wonder if it is the same with record sleeves and they are not cleaning the sleeves properly before use which is leading or adding to this problem.
Wow. That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing. Those techniques could be part of the problem. ✌🏽
This is caused by storing the record with an ambient temperature that is too high.
That is why there are most of the same records not affected... just ones that were stored in elevated temperatures.
👍🏽👍🏽
I can get rid of the ghosting. I’ve removed it from many records successfully. But it’s a very laborious process and not for the faint hearted (for some people)
👍🏽👍🏽
I've never heard of this issue until recently, i started buying records in the 70's and none of mine have this problem. I guess everything breaks down over time, they're all gonna turn to dust at some point! I reckon its a combination of inner and outer sleeves plus external conditions, heat, cold etc, and if it is a 'gas' regular playing should let the gas out so to speak but if they're unplayed for decades i can understand how it might happen.
Hi Michael. That’s a very logical assessment of the situation. I agree with you 100%. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Steve
I believe you thanks by the way I saw Jethro Tull perform thick as a brick in its entirety 1972 at the fabulous forum of Englewood
Holy cow, John! That must have amazing to be there! Thanks for sharing, Buddy.
I just pulled out two records in that slightly pinkish plastic inner sleeves. They look good, but two other coloured vinyl records packaged in thick PVC sleeves (rather than polyethylene) are discoloured. I guess I will have to play them to see how they sound.
Those colored vinyl can be tricky. Hope everything works out.
A prime example of off-gassing would be the Judas Priest Nostradamus vinyl box set. The records came in PVC inner sleeves (what an awful idea) and were damaged almost from the get go. There are very few, if any, copies of that album that weren´t damaged. Also, remeber the picture discs from the 80´s and early 90´s? They also came in heavy PVC sleeves, almost "glued" to sleeve, hard to get out, and they did not sound good...
Thanks for sharing your experience. I really feel badly for all the collectors who bought the JP Nostradamus box set. I had about 6 or 7 viewers tell me theirs were ruined beyond repair. Such a bummer.
I wonder why in this case the offgassing effect is on the outer edges of the record and not all over it. Also, I wonder if a smoker environment has any incidence over making this issue more or less responsible and if so for speeding up this offgassing phenomenon.
@@thebestoffools That’s a great question. I’ve seen my share of tainted records that came from a heavy cigarette smoking environment. Non laminated covers such as the Thick As A Brick cover always had severe browning on them. This cover is NM and has no discoloration. But I can certainly see how cigarette smoke (or any other type smoke) could encourage off gassing sooner than later. Thanks for sharing your great insights with us and the viewers. ✌🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Interesting! There's no denying that LP a victim of off gassing. That sucks.
What's weird is I have a 1st UK Porky/Pecko of that album too, but it came in a different 'Made in England', nonlined inner sleeve, so my copy was safe.
I do have some of the same inners you showed though and thankfully, haven't experienced any ghosting with those. I really need to dig through my collection and check all my RTI pressings at least.
@@R3TR0R4V3 Glad your is safe. Hope the rest turn out ok. Thanks for watching and commenting.
The look of the record surface from the manufacturing process is different than what your seeing from "off-gassing". I mentioned before, could it be more of an issue on un-opened records where there is no way for them to "vent the gasses"? I have many of the sleeves in ? and never seen this, but mine where opened when they were bought new.
Great point , Bradt. I agree opening records as soon as they arrive is the best medicine for our illnesses 😂. Thanks for commenting and watching. ✌🏽
I had a lot of Bluenote records which had those pinkish inner sleeves. Those sleeves I all threw away and now I use ricepaper inner sleeves instead. The old sleeves feel a little sticky as if there is some kind of substance on it.
I have many Blue Note records too. I know exactly what you mean. I never liked those inner sleeves. I too think it wise to change them. Thanks for commenting
I thought hazing was outlawed…oh that was at college. Interesting , one more thing to look for. Now that you proved this please check into the whole Big Foot rumors.
🤣🤣 Steve Carlson strikes again. I was waiting for a hazing joke. I’ll need to be in New Mexico full time to start the Big Foot investigation.
Great video brother
Have a great day and a super weekend!
Blessings brother
Thank you my good man! Appreciate you brother Joey! BBAY
Ghosting is real, it happened to a copy of my japanese Audiophile album and a 1958 capitol u.s. pressing album, both were using audiophile grade inner sleeves and not sealed copies.
Wow. That’s scary. I’m afraid to start going through my collection. I’ve just start to go through and open all my sealed albums but knowing there a possibility of opened records getting ruined is frightening. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Steve
@@TheVinylRecordMission
I remember vividly the u.s. press album was stored in a very thick PVC outer sleeve, as that was a NM precious record, but just can't remember the japanese outer sleeve.
It won't come "off" because it's not "on" it's "in"
it's now changed the chemical makeup of the vinyl and "is" the vinyl
I can see your point.
I would try Simple Green, with a distilled water rinse.
Thanks Milloguy. What have I got to lose? I’ll give it try and let you know. ✌🏽
Steve
It's not "on" the vinyl, it is the vinyl now.
Thanks for the video. I think the record has to be stored in a very hot place to to be offgassing, but I don't know for sure. As I live in Norway that is usually not a problem :) Only guessing tho'.
@@trondam Hi Trondam. That is a very accurate assessment. Beautiful Norway is the perfect climate for vinyl lovers. Thank you for watching and contributing to our conversation. Take care. 😁
Steve
I just bought a pack of 50 mofi rice paper inner sleeves. Does this mean I should give them away or....? Thanks for all the info, even though shocking. ~Marjet
No, you are gold with those sleeves. One thing, If you wet clean an album, make sure it's completely dry before sleeving the record.
I believe it’s safe to use the new mofi inners. As a long as you don’t store your records too tightly in your shelves you should be good. 👍🏽
@@rockinronist Thanks for responding.
@@TheVinylRecordMission Thanks alot. No, I'm keen on storing not to tight :)
I just checked my vinyl copy of Thick As A Brick, not a British import. No gassing. It's packed in a paper sleeve.
That’s great news! I’ve got a sealed U.S. pressing I’m going to open soon. I’m hoping for the best outcome like yours. 👍🏽✌🏽Thanks for watching and commenting.
that's the trouble with those PVC plastic outer sleeves I have managed to save some records with ghosting on them by using Meguiar's Scratch and Meguiar's Plastx Clear Plastic Cleaner and Polish there are TH-cam videos on how to use those on records
Thanks for the tip. I’ll check out the videos. Appreciate you contributing. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Steve
Is that a FLOW CHART behind you for processing bulk buys? Do you have a video on that process from acquisition to donation disposal sale....?
@@junkman8742 Hi Junkman! Lol. Those are my study charts for my Sommelier exams. I’m a wine sommelier so I’m always studying. I have charts over my stove in the kitchen too. I have not yet done a video on acquisition to donation to disposal. That’s a cool idea. Maybe in the future. ✌🏽
@@TheVinylRecordMission I know the process in the BOOK Bulk world. At least Paper / Paperbacks has/have a value to somebody in recycling!
This has me a little bit confused. So it's not just the PVC sleeves but the poly sleeves also that might be causing the problem?
I had a couple of records earlier this year that seemed to have a hazy look on the sleeve cover as well as the vinyl record cover when I went to play them. It had kind of a sticky feeling to the two different covers. Initially, I thought maybe my dog had peed on the crate that they were in. But is checked closer it did not appear that that was the case and my dog doesn't do that in the house anyway.
I'm legally blind and it's hard for me to see on the the vinyl records something like the ghosting or hazing. I was able to see in this video what you were talking about however. Are you thinking that we need to stop using poly sleeves Steve? If we don't use those, what would we want to use. I know the paper is probably more likely to be more damaging especially over time. But I'm just not sure. I'm kind of mystified by this being both PVC and Polly sleeves that us seem to be the culprits too. I'm definitely not saying it's not true. I don't know? I'm just wondering what's the best step to take especially if it is the case. It bites not being able to look and see if it is happening like in my case. Is it leaving a stickiness to the the protective sleeves that you can feel?
I have to use Google Voice to Text when composing these messages. I then go back and proofread with my magnifier. I'm not able to do this this time but if there's any misspelled words or errors, I'm sorry about that.
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
I’m learning from some other viewer who’ve commented that it’s ghosting of this magnitude is not caused by polyethylene. This degree of ghosting was clearly caused by the heavy PVC outer sleeve this album was stored in. It’s sounding more and more like PVC is the culprit when it comes to Offgassing. This UK poly-lined inner sleeve was framed. lol. I only just learned this by posting this video and receiving what I felt were two very intelligent and educated comments that explained how this type of ghosting occurs. They also said polyethylene doesn’t gas off, only PVC does. Most of the comments received regarding bad ghosting have been from people who’ve have PVC inner sleeves and/or PVC inner sleeves. Hope this elevates some of your confusion. I’m going to confidently continue using the HDPE inner sleeves. Cheers, Brian.
@@TheVinylRecordMission , yes that definitely alleviates my concerns. Thank you Steve! I've been purposely avoiding the PVC sleeves I occasionally get. But the more I think about it, the more I realize I need to go back through all of those albums that came with PVC record sleeves and just throw those PVC sleeves out. I think I've saved most of them and just put them back into the album cover with nothing in them. I put the record in one of the polyethylene sleeves and then slide it in the back of the polyethylene album cover sleeve. I'd heard bad things about the PVC sleeves in the past but the more I think about it I wish I had just thrown those away. It's my guess that they can still off gas inside of the album cover and maybe ruin the artwork or still make it through to where the actual vinyl record is. Just like on the Led Zeppelin Mothership box set, I took those four sleeves that I'm assuming are PVC and I put them in the bottom of the box with the albums in a poly sleeves and back in their individual album covers. That's probably still not a smart way to store them havp LPing the PVC sleeves even in the box. Thankfully I haven't gotten too many that came with PVC sleeves over the years. But now I got to remember which ones did and didn't. That probably means I'll be going through each album and double-checking it too. It's definitely better to be safe than sorry as they say 🙂 Thanks again for the clarification Steve!
@@Bootradr 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽
That's one of the advantages of CD. Ghosting is never an issue.
Can’t argue with that. 👍🏽👍🏽
Lots of my CDs have micro burrows obviously from a larvae or mite chewing off the reflective surface in a random path or trail
Polymerization. Humidity and PVC bad combination.
Agreed 👍🏽
Ok, now i'm confused..you have previously made reference to older PVC OUTER sleeves that have been the culprits, but now you are also saying that INNER sleeves are the cause?..so is it both, or one or the other?.
With reference to UK '60s and ' 70s pressings being faulty, i'm not sure about that, someone was clearly making a generalisation, or not being specific enough.
Thinner vinyl like those produced after the 1973 oil crisis or ' Dynaflex' are certainly prone to warping, although jury is out if inferior vinyl was used..i really don't know..
I have been fortunate in that i have very few records in my collection that have fallen foul of this ' ghosting ' phenomena however, as a precaution, i re-sleeved my entire collection of approx 1000 albums over a period of 12 months or so.
Just as problematic, i think is groove wear when buying used vinyl, another issue that we as collectors can do nothing about!!.
At least your OG Thick As A Brick has a nice sleeve, that one is usually tougher to find in great shape than the actual vinyl...it took me a couple of years to find a decent one.
Hi Robison. Sorry for the confusion. I’m learning here too. Some viewers with much more knowledge and expertise than me have opened my eyes to other reasons ghosting occurs.
One gentleman said if you have a PVC outer sleeve it will gas off even through the cover and ghost the record and it won’t be the fault of the inner sleeve. He also said the offgass won’t travel through laminated covers. That’s why some people find their ghosting only on one side of the record, the side against the non laminated (usually the back side) of the album cover. It’s a lot to take in, I know. Talking about it helps though. I hope this helps.
My Jethro Tull album was in fact stored in a thick PVC outer sleeve for many years. The cover of that record is not laminated. That explains why the ghosting was so bad and on both sides of my record. Learning what I learned from the gentleman I mentioned about was the perfect storm of an answer for the record I showed in this video. It’s science. I always sucked at science, lol.
Steve
@@TheVinylRecordMission Thanks for the clarification, it appears that cause and prevention are muddy waters indeed!.
It is PVC (poly vinyl chloride) outer (not inner) sleeves. PVC uses phthalates (or elasticizers) to soften the PVC. The elasticizer in certain formulations leaches out of the sleeve in the form of gas. This gas is toxic and will go right through paper jackets and inner sleeves amd damage the record. At this point the use of PVC in items like medical devices and childrens toys (remember those soft plastic teething toys you could freeze?). It is still used in the record industry, most commonly as jackets for picture disks.
@@drbryant23 Thank you Drbryant. I’ll keep that in mind moving forward. I have had my share of damage picture disks from PVC outer sleeves. Thanks for sharing. ✌🏽
Steve