@@outlawbookselleroriginal Just finished 'The Glamour' (Cape hardback edition) - absolutely loved it, very curious to read the Abacus version now. Thanks for your recommendation - my next fix is 'The Anomaly'. Here we go...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I haven't read any other versions of The Glamour yet, but I have recently read Indoctinaire and The Affirmation, both of which linger massively. Not being a Priest 'expert', I would say that the endings to the books of his I have read are some of the most thought-provoking and bracing endings I have ever read, full stop. X (Incidentally, watched this again so commenting now. I was wondering by the way, do you speak about The Invention of Morel somewhere - I have a feeling you do and I'm in the middle of that now - it strikes me as very Priestian.)
@@michaeldaly1495 It is - Chris is a big fan of 'Morel' and was going to wave it during one of our interviews but we got cut up by streaming problems...I've read it as well, natch. Basis of the film 'Last Year In Marienbad' . The endings of Chris books' - so often marked by stuning conceptual breakthroughs - are, for me, what indicate his status as one of the greatest writers of SF ever. He understands how perception is shaped by language in literature and having taken on board the influences of Ballard, Dick and Fowles and filtered them through the stylistics and English settings of Wells and Wyndham, adding his own experiences of memory and broken time, creates the greatest expression of inner space in contemporary literature.
Looping back to this, the first in the 'Elements of...' series to say thanks for a great series - informative and insightful as always. I thoroughly recommend this to everyone. Great stuff. Thanks.
Thanks again. It's a strange thing that people so often think they know what something is, without ever having tried to analyse it. For me, this is part of the pleasure of a work itself- looking below the surface.
“Arts are in crisis” another great video Steve. I love how conversational & unscripted this is. Feels organic which makes it more entertaining . Your end point really got me thinking, are we really at a point when contemporary SF offers little to no originality, and merely stands on the shoulders of giants? I’m always an optimist and think as human experience and history continues to evolve, we will continue to see new, fresh and innovative ideas.
Yes, she broke the mould with that book- but sadly, other writers took this one-off innovation too far and we now have writers like Becky Chambers who do nothing but set everyday, mundane stories in space. For me this was a 'It can only be done once' thing- Maureen's later books have the same quality, but do add the Conceptual Breakthroughs back in, but they never grabbed me as much.
"The conceptual breakthrough is that there isn’t a conceptual breakthrough". Brilliant. I loved China Mountain Zhang. Such an unusual and affecting SF novel, more kitchen sink drama than soap/space opera. People just trying to get by and not slip between the cracks. So relatable. Pleased you didn't hint at any 'reveals'. I have Non-Stop and The Affirmation and The Glamour lined up for the next few weeks. Your best video to date. The others were pretty good though, to be fair!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. McHugh really did surprise people at the time, I think, though as I say it's a once-only deal. My 'no spoilers' on this theme (apart from the necessary example of Van Vogt) are really there to lead people in. The way these writers use language in their CBs is very important I feel and it's allied to Delany's theory that SF is about using language differently as much as it is about the future. I've no doubt some people may not 'get' some of the CBs I refer to or may even 'miss the point' as it were, but I think they may spot more now in their reading. I'm interested to hear what people think of these books, but of course the journey itself is as important as the arrival at the end...
Another terrific post! Your conversational manner, borne of a deep interest and your own experience, is just wonderful to listen to. I think that you’re a natural at this. I’d never thought of ‘conceptual breakthrough’ in this way before, although I recognise it immediately as a major part of what I love about certain writers. I also like that you have authors you like and others that you don’t; you’re not trying to be nice to everyone’s work. You recommend quite a lot of writers, novels, collections, etc and I can’t always recall them all, but I’m grateful for anything that makes it easier to find good writing. I’ve been on a Noir kick lately, but you’re pulling me back to SF! HNY!
Excellent video again. I would agree that Priest is simply the best when it comes to conceptual breakthrough. One of my favorites not mentioned by you is Kate Wilhelm, now sadly neglected. Her novels "The Clewiston Test" and "Welcome Chaos" both have revelations of a Priest-like intensity. In both, I had to go back and reread the page to make sure that I understood what had happened. Her short stories are very good too. She seemed to lose interest in SF and went on to write a long series of legal thrillers, which were a fun read but not as good as her SF.
My first exposure to the conceptual breakthrough concept. In and of itself it's a conceptual breakthrough for me! I am very much enjoying perusing your archive OB! Cheers.
From 'The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction' (Clute, Nicholls, et al), quoted here to further clarify: 'In 1972 Darko Suvin defined sf as "a literary genre whose necessary and sufficient conditions are the presence and interaction of estrangement and cognition, and whose main formal device is an imaginative framework alternative to the author's empirical environment". By "cognition" Suvin appears to mean the seeking of rational understanding, and by "estrangement" something akin to Bertolt Brecht's Verfremdungseffekt, defined in 1948 thus: "A representation which estranges is one which allows us to recognize its subject, but at the same time make it seem unfamiliar." Perhaps the most important part of Suvin's definition, and the easiest with which to agree, is the emphasis he puts on what he and others have called a Novum, a new thing - some difference between the world of the fiction and what Suvin calls the "empirical environment", the real world outside. The presence of a novum is insufficient in itself, of course, to define sf, since the different and older tradition of fantasy likewise depends on the novum. Peter Nicholls, pointing to this particularly blurred demarcation line, argues that sf must by definition follow natural law whereas fantasy may and mostly does suspend it. Fantasy need not be susceptible to "natural" or cognitive explanation; indeed, supernatural explanation is at fantasy's heart. (Suvin claims that the commercial linking of sf and fantasy is "a rampantly pathological phenomenon". This dividing line is further discussed under Magic.) As to estrangement, it arguably has little to do with at least the US tradition of sf (although a great deal to do with European traditions of Satire), in which an important component is nostalgia for the familiar - even the familiarly new (see Clichés) - and estrangement is significantly absent. John Clute has argued that much sf seeks to create the exact opposite of estrangement; that is, it works to make the incredible seem plausible and familiar. Nonetheless, while Suvin's definition would find few who agreed with all of it, it is challenging and has perhaps been the most useful of all in catalysing debate on the issue.'
Thanks Daniel. Read some of those books and stories now, as it'll expand upon the video hugely. More 'Elements of SF' to come, then I'll pull them together into a definitive 'definitions' video.
Big Time - Fritz Leiber. Robot stories by Asimov. Philip K Dick, of course. Left Hand of Darkness, Grey Matters, Rendezvous with Rama, Ringworld, Midwich Cuckoos, Neuromancer stories, Titus Groan trilogy....and oh so unfashionably, the Hitchhiker's Guide...
I considered myself a SF fan for something like 55 years -- until the internet, SF blogs, and now, TH-cam. Heck, I have something like 650 SF books on my shelves (including 150+ Ace Books from the 60's). However, I never liked short SF, which some say is the beating heart of SF, and I never read books to have my mind blown. I have a feeling that what you call conceptual breakthroughs, I'd see as merely at twist, a gimmick, an aren't I clever moment. So it is not surprising, then, to find that on any list of 100 must-read SF novels, I may've read 15 -20 of them. What I've come to realize is that I'm a fan of romances -- in the old definition of the term: adventures in exotic lands. SF provided the exotic lands. I like stories and characters, not ideas dressed up as stories. I am certain that you are right about what SF is, it is just that one doesn't have to read them correctly to be enjoyed. That said, I enjoy learning all about SF and all the books that I'll never read. It's interesting. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Chuck. I would say that stories and characters aren't precluded by conceptual breakthrough, they compliment it - pretty much every book/story I cite in the video has strong characters and plotting and the breakthroughs are an integral part of the stories, while it's the presence of realistic characters that make the breakthroughs so significant. They're human moments above all else.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal No doubt you are right. But I was, and still do look more for adventure type of stories than explorations of strange what ifs? More of a planetary romance lad, I guess, than mainstream SF. From what I've read and watched, I know that I'm well out of the mainstream in SF, but I'm fine with that, even if it means having to write my own stories.
I really liked this comment. I too am a fan of 'planetary romance' but I definitely appreciate having my paradigm shifted. I posted a link to "farewell to the master" but I think links are disabled.
Discovered your channel a few weeks ago and i love your discussions and how much knowledge you share, it is a pleasure to listen to you, greetings from Argentina
There will be more coming, but check the backlist of my videos and you'll find stuff about both, with more to come soon. Also, my recent 'Conceptual breakthrough' video starts with a PKD example...
Very enjoyable and informative piece. And one I don't consider myself remotely qualified to comment upon. But I just wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself as the chap who met you the other day and put in the vote for Tanith Lee [maybe just the DAW years in deference to her prolificness]. Was on a book foraging expedition from London at the time but promised you I would subscribe when I got back and I have. Already looking forward to the next vid.
Amazing video with many good recommendations. Thanks for putting these out. I just finished A Dream of Wessex by Christopher P. and will start the Affirmation very soon. Now I am looking forward to it even more. From my latest reads, I think Darwinia by Wilson and Lord of Light by Zelazny are two other good examples of conceptual breakthrough
It's hard to discuss these things without making spoilers that hinder the enjoyment of others, but having read both 'Darwinia' and LOL' I know what you mean. As I say, it's a marker of all great SF, especially if it happens at start and finish. You'll find 'The Affirmation' is a significant step up from 'A Dream of Wessex', which I like, but it catches Chris in transition from extreme proficiency to actual greatness!
I got my hands on the Granta publication yesterday, and have just read Priest's 'The Miraculous Cairn'. That moment, when you realise *the thing* (yes, I made the assumption) took my breath away. There was no reason for me to make that assumption, at least not in the writing: it came from me. I agree, it probably wouldn't be such a big deal now, but the clarity of the writing and reveal is so compelling, irrespective of the audience. And then, to read on in a state of surprise, only for the horror to really kick in ... wow. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be reading more of Priest's work!
Yes, it's remarkable, isn't it? And so simple in a way- this reveals his genius. The version in the collection now in print called 'The Dream Archipelago' is revised and in my view is not as strong. Well over thirty years after my first reading, I still think of it often- one of my favourite works of short fiction ever.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal It's really simple, but that sort of simplicity is hard to pull off convincingly. Off the back of this, I've just ordered 'The Affirmation' and 'The Glamour' (the version you recommended, hopefully!). About to start another of your recommendations, actually - Sterling's 'Involution Ocean'.
@@tjonas1986 -Good move. Priest's 1980s output is, I feel, the finest- even though all his work is superb - and the Sterling is a great parody of 'Dune' and ashows where the Punk in Cyberpunk came from...
I’ve been thoroughly enjoying your channel! I know you typically do not do spoilers, but I would dearly love if you would elaborate on your views of the conclusion of Man in the High Castle.
Well, let's put it this way: what does Abdensen say to Juliana at the very end? Then she walks out of the High Castle and realises the true nature of her reality as a character...so what is Juliana? She's not real, is she? So it's like an inversion of the 'fourth wall' thing as she realises what she actually is....I can;t be any clearer than that without making a total spoiler of it.
I watched both of your interviews with Chris Priest and enjoyed seeing him again. Can I ask if you've read and what you think of the works of Edmund Cooper? He's unknown nowadays but I read all his novels as a teenager and greatly enjoyed them. Thanks.
Watch the video posted on March 2nd ('Blue Girls...') and I speak about one of Cooper's novels in that video. I am going to be reading more over the next year so watch this space.
I imagine you've watched my Priest videos here -the 'Futurewatch' playlist one about the unwritten sequel to 'The Prestige' and 'England's Dreaming', looking at his books up to the late 70s? I will be filming one on his 1980s work before Christmas and he will appear on the channel as an interviewee sometime early next year.
I know Peter F. Hamilton describes a lot, but Pandora's Star is packed with great scenes. Maybe even don't continue to Judas Unchained if you don't care about the Ozzie cliffhanger.
I'm afraid Hamilton's work does nothing for me. After reading Barrington J Bayley, M John Harrison and Brian Stableford, I find his work ponderous. He may be popular, but he lacks flair in my opinion.
Hi Steve, great video. I’m looking forward to your next Elements of Science Fiction upload. I only really started getting into science fiction during the quarantine, and your videos have helped steer me towards some interesting reads. The Affirmation was mind-blowing and I’m looking forward to reading The Glamour or Inverted World as my next Priest. One modern SF book I enjoyed that I felt exhibited this conceptual breakthrough was Gnomon by Nick Harkaway. Curious if you read/enjoyed this one or even talked about it in a video. I know you have had limited success with modern SF, so I’m wondering if you’re into Harkaway.
Glad you're enjoying the channel! Yes, I've read 'Gnomon' - it's very good but I did feel it was a little longer than it needed to be, but I think that's Neal Stephenson's influence, though NH (who is John Le Carre's son) has cited Gibson as his primary influence.
I love hearing your analyses. If you do check back. Please give us your take on the Galactic Pot Healer. Ive read it three times now, it’s my favorite PKD. Please share your insights regarding the conceptual breakthrough at the end
It's in the last word: what expectation of Joe's attempt at creativity to redeem himself would a conventional narrative suggest? What would the 'manifest destiny' style of US SF of the Campbell era suggest? What is the result of Joe's attempt to 'redeem' himself as signficant? The answer is in the last sentence and specifically, the last word.
LOVE that cover! Is it Woodroffe? I think it interesting that another channel I watch (Terry Talks Movies) picked today to start talking about what makes SF, SF. Really the first bit is the germane part, the rest is just for fun: " Three Science Fiction Movies you should see." He's low key, but well regarded. Not your in depth treatment - but a good bloke none the less. Watch it or not in your "infinite spare time" _ Be Well
I'll check it out, thanks for that! Cover artist uncredited, but yes, it has the Woodroffe feel, but I don't think it is him, but I can't think who else it might be...
@@salty-walt No, it's not Rodders, not solid enough at the edges for him...I get the feeling it's Peter Goodfellow, though why I think this I don't know and I'm probably wrong!
I read the novel-length version of The Weapon Shops of Isher and found it to be disjointed, confusing, and dull. Not many months later I read the shorter "The Weapons Shop" and loved it. It just felt more cohesive and meaningful.
I prefer the shorter original too- it has an atmosphere and strangeness that is incomparable. A lot of Van Vogt's earlier magazine work was expanded later for book publication.
Love your channel! This video is particularly amazing! I was wondering if there's any theory book about the conceptual breakthrough the way there's _Metamorphosis of Science Fiction_ by Darko Suvin where he develops the concept of the novum (or maybe he talks about it? Don't remember. I read that one long ago). Warm hugs from México! Keep it up Stephen!
Many thanks. Suvin is one of my biggest influences when it comes to understanding and identifying what SF is- as is Norman Spinrad. There may be books out there on CB, I haven't done any recent research on the academic works on the topic. This is, of course, the first of a series of videos, 'The Elements of SF', the second one focusing on the Novum.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I've watched (and re-watched) the whole series. It's amazing, really. Thanks a lot for the content you upload. As well as for the recommendations. I've followed you on a couple (Nina Allen's Conquest, Disch Camp Concentration and Ballard short stories) and really, no regrets. On the contrary: Ballard in particular, really blew it and made me see a whole new side of SF.
Yes, now that's a cracking example of what is arguably an anachronism - but is actually a novum because of the context- immediately resulting in a conceptual breakthrough driven paradigm shift. 'High Rise'.
Really enjoyed this video. Non-stop did change my way of thinking, such a brilliant story. I don't mind Becky Chambers - I get your point about soap opera - but many modern writers have some surprising approaches to SF they are not like Clarke, Asimov, Silverberg, Dick, Niven et al there is almost something missing but I think they can be very readable and fresh, I include Andy Weir in this category. Frederick Pohl was from the old school, great writer. I must read more Silverberg, always enjoyed his work but he has so much! I need to read more Priest, never read The Glamour. I really enjoy mind changing paradigm shifting conceptual breakthrough stories. There is plenty here I have not read so thank you!
I'd say the problem with most 'modern' writers is that they are not Modern with a capital M, they are instead contemporary, which is a different -they are generally less innovative than the SF writers of the past conceptually, but that is because most forms of cultural production are now no longer innovative and new (i.e. Modern) but part of a cultural stasis that's lasted some thirty years- the Postmodern era. Their voices may seem 'fresh', but I'd argue most simply have a smooth conversational readability, but very little style or difficulty, both things which characterise Modern aesthetics. SF used to be the genre of (R) evolution, but it has now run out of places to go, like most of the arts, so it recombines and pastiches and repeats. It's an issue for all creative forms.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Yes I would agree generally but I have really enjoyed some modern works like Noumenon trilogy and Planet fall trilogy in particular Before Mars. Becky Chambers writing isn't convincing but I enjoyed book 1 in Wayfarers but this stuff is my wheelhouse. Mainly I read Reynolds, Banks and Hamilton but have run out of those. Ive made some notes from your videos there is a few older works I have not read. Clarke blow me away when I read him in the 70's but young people now reading him cant "feel" the same thing, in the last 50 years we have had Star Wars, The Matrix, the internet, etc the world has changed.
@@paulallison6418 -There is an interview with Emma Newman here on the channel, filmed a few weeks back, she's a good one. Re the films you mention, they are only a step 'forward' in terms of slickness of technique, rather than being innovative- 'Primer' and 'Crimes of the Future' are examples of how SF cinema could raise its game away from the usual tropes. Yes, the world has changed, but my point is that it's entered a period of retrenchment with traditional crafts in much SF and the Space Opera renaissance that began around 1987 with Banks is an example of this- I see his work and that of Reynolds and Hamilton (good guys that they all are/were, having met them all) as being conservative, revisionist and traditional, nothing really new there- M John Harrison's 'Light' and sequels, Ken Macleod and Charles Stross' 'Accelerando' raising the trad game more than a bit. But writes like Adam Roberts and Dave Hutchinson are streets ahead in taking things forward I feel. There is more to SF than Space Opera, I feel. Now, perhaps, a lot of younger readers are quite honestly less literate that us older guys, as they've been over-exposed to screens from day one and under-exposed to nuance, style and originality in writing- and the result is lots of formulaic SF that people only think is 'new' as they're unfamiliar with the past, unlike ourselves.
I know. Even some 25 years after its closure, after patronising it from the end of the seventies until it went, I still think of it every time I walk up Park Street. The guy who ran it now has a comic shop on the Isle of Wight, apparently....
You don't see his stuff in the wild much. It's more or less all in print both sides of the Atlantic, he deserves the royalties, buy new. Part two of my interview with him covering his 1980s and 1990s work steams here from friday night. Part one went online in December, just scroll backwards through uploads and you'll get me and him reminiscing about his 60s and 70s work and the other SF writers he knew, it's quite something!
I’m sure I read him decades ago because his name is so familiar to me, just can’t remember what. I’ve watched all of your SF vids (and even the Hawkind and Alice Cooper vids) and many of them more than once as they are so darn informative, something I don’t do with Moid or Matt at bookpilled. Keep going
@@robertjbroadhurst3860 -I will keep going mate, don't you worry! To be fair, Moid has great enthusiasm for the genre and Matt at Bookpilled is a natural born critic and a great guy (we're often in touch and hope to meet up later this year) who gave me my first ringing endorsement here on YT. But what The Outlaw Bookseller has that others don't is the decades of trade experience, fifty years of reading and context/history/theory, born of enjoying SF as a major hobby and working with it in my dayjob for nearly forty years, plus my experience as a published writer/editor. I aim to provide an informal yet informed look at the genre. FYI, I strongly recommend Science Fiction Reads and Scott Bradfield ( a real writer!) on YT too.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal OK re Scott Bradfield and I've watched SF Reads several times & enjoyed that. Yep re your experience, you're definitely bringing me up to speed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bookpilled (the only person to be culling his SF books at the same time as still hauling, go figure) live on your channel and Moid's Media Death Cult. FYI I bought your books years ago...
When I read The Miraculous Cairn I remember my jaw dropping and my brain fizzing. I also love Priest's dry flat writing style. But I have been disappointed with every book since The Adjacent which is my personal favourite by Priest. I think he has gone off the boil .
I still enjoy Chris' books enormously, but for me something clicked with his style after 'The Quiet Woman' and they've had a more urgent tone than the 80s works which hasn't impressed me as much as his magnificent 80s writing.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Wasn't there some kind of conceptual breakthrough in The Quiet Woman? I remember liking it. It's quite a weird one, that one.
I have a silly Christopher Priest question: I've only read one book by him, a newer one called the Islanders, and I thought it was a pretty good read. I remember it was about the Dream Archipelago and was made up of a bunch of different faux encyclopedia entries. It was really cool but I didn't realize it was part of a series until a couple of months ago. With that in my back pocket, how should I go about reading some more Christopher Priest as your channel has inspired me to do?
Well, I'd say start at the beginning. All his work is worth reading and publication order is a good approach. But you'll enjoy his work more if you have some historical context. His early work sees him as a key writer of the British New Wave, so read up on New Wave in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction (google it, as it's now a website rather than a book). Then, after reading his first three novels -'Indoctrinaire', 'Fugue For A Darkening Island' and 'Inverted World', read 'The Magus' by John Fowles, which influenced him into his next, mature phase. Alternatively, you could go down The Dream Archipelago route and read 'The Affirmation' as your entry point, then the collection entitled 'The Dream Archipelago'. As you enjoyed 'The Islanders', you are pretty much ready for anything by Chris...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Awesome, I will keep an eye out for those books then! I'm still new to the New Wave of Science Fiction even though I've read a few hundred SF books, it's just not the stuff that usually comes my way... While this may be a bit out of your comfort zone, have you ever thought about hosting little book clubs or read along discussions on these kind of books for the less initiated/discussion friendly folk? I know I'd be interested, but I don't know if you have the desire or participation for that..Just an idea, as usual thanks for the great entertainment and information!
@@conradledebuhr1765 -New Wave is to my way of thinking the most important school (or rather historical moment ) in SF - when it takes on board the challenge of Modernism. Re the book club/read along thing, do you mean virtually as on TH-cam live stream? I have, of course, done many book club and similar events over the years in my day job as a bookseller and informally in pub settings...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I was speaking of more of a virtual book club kind of like Moid's readalongs, where a group of people read a book seperately and discuss it together over text or video or what have you.
@@conradledebuhr1765 - I haven'r really considered this as yet, simply because so many people do this on YT and (quite frankly- and I don't mean Moid here, who has posted some good reviews) many of them are simply not experienced enough as readers of SF to be leading said discussions. I may do this, but for the moment my approach will remain more about imparting suggestions about how you look at and read SF, hence the Conceptual Breakthrough video -there will be more like this as I've said. Without context and history, opinions of what is good or not in SF remains simply opinions. It's when they become informed opinions they become more interesting and valid. But we'll see, maybe I'll go that way, but I want to provide an alternative to most TH-cam SF coverage rather than going the same way. Stick with me and we'll see how it turns out. Thanks for your comments!
Great vid; very chewy, meaty. So does this count as the long promised Christopher Priest video? * I totally get what you're saying about conceptual breakthrough, and it's important to me as well. There is one aspect I wish you had addressed though: to the sophomorically well read there is usually not a differentiation between successful breakthrough and gimmicky trickery. I fear that the literary establishment has discounted it and that a couple of generations have been taught to see it all as a cheap gimmick of the Pulps. I mean I think it can be both successful and unsuccessful, and both a gimmick and genius. Take Lovecraft for example: In "The Outsider" it feels like a gimmick, but it works. In "The Whisperer in Darkness" it feels like a gimmick that fails as he circles the end reveal like a plane waiting for landing instructions. And in "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" it is executed with genius to perfection. Your essay was rather in depth on an unusual point, and very interesting. Since you have very carefully considered the subject, and it seems as though labeling it as "gimmickery" is the main argument against your thesis, do you have anything to say on that?
I think you'd have to read the books I cite to see that I'm not talking about a mere gimmick, but something profound in many cases- though the Ellison one is just a typical flourish- the Priest ones are the most profound. And no, this is not the CP video - there is one already, but there will be at least 3 more in the future.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal That's why I offered examples as well. I'm familiar with the Ellison (of course) and it always felt like a fail, like a gimmick *trying* to pass itself off as more - Of course that story always reminded me of Hemmingway's "Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" which I didn't care for, so I may be biased.
Has Priest's Inverted World anything to do with the inverted world invoked by Hegel in the Phenomenology of Spirit in the transition from consciousness to self-consciousness in which the understanding has some kind of weird breakdown? 'The second super sensible world is in this way the inverted world and, moreover…the inversion of the first… [T]he inner world is completed as appearance ... according… to the law of this inverted world, what is like in the first world is unlike to itself, and what is unlike to itself, and is unlike in the first world is equally unlike to itself, or it becomes like itself ... the law of the first world is sweet, in the inverted in-itself is sour.... '.
Yes, very much so. If you've not read it, you should. Priests' work is of interest to anyone serious about philosophy- especially 'The Affirmation' and 'The Glamour'. There is an interview with him on my channel and a second part coming up before too long.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal it's impossible to have the same tastes in books as somebody else. You understand and explain the themes, the language, where you are at when you read the book, and many other helpful insights. We are both collectors and I appreciate your expertise in reading quality science fiction. I am currently about to finish Dr Bloodmoney and have re-read as a result of your videos Science Fiction Hall of Fame vol I. There are about 15 tbr as well
Non ordered Whipping Star, Dosadi Experiment, White Plague, Dune-- frank Herbert Rama -- Clarke Velocity Weapon series O' Keefe Lost Fleet-- Cambell Drowned World & Short Story compilation of J.G. ballard Foundation Trilogy, Robot series----Azimov Left Hand of Darkness, Lathe of Heaven, le Guin Haze, Forever HERO series -- modesitt jr First 3 Expanse books--Corey Ender - card Revelation Space series, Prefect, Bone Silence series, Chasm City----allister Reynolds MATTER, algebraist, exceler
I'm up in the mountains camping got cut off...reception bad. Excession by Banks was my last entry. I think on a personal note P.K. Dick is scatological....Blade Runner -one, the movie, was much better than do androids dream
@@AcmePotatoPackingPocatello -Can't agree: much as I love 'Blade Runner', it's a pale shadow beside the source novel, which is far more realistic, nuanced and emotionally and intellectually broader. But respect yr view.
![Is This Really the Best Sci-Fi Book Ever Written? [100 Book Challenge #100]](/img/n.gif)
One of your best videos.
Thanks Matt, if you liked it, my day is made! More like this to come.
I’m watching this for the third time. I get something new from it every time. These teaching and sharing videos are the gold one can mine on TH-cam.
Thanks Jack- the real meat is here!
This channel is one of the most important resources in the field of F & SF.
You're very kind. Please spread the word.
As Ballard might say - brilliant. I really hope a publisher gives you money to do an anthology - I'd buy it immediately. Great work.
Thanks Michael- maybe one day...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Just finished 'The Glamour' (Cape hardback edition) - absolutely loved it, very curious to read the Abacus version now. Thanks for your recommendation - my next fix is 'The Anomaly'. Here we go...
@@michaeldaly1495 - The real differences are in the final chapter, compare them closely and let me know what you think.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I haven't read any other versions of The Glamour yet, but I have recently read Indoctinaire and The Affirmation, both of which linger massively. Not being a Priest 'expert', I would say that the endings to the books of his I have read are some of the most thought-provoking and bracing endings I have ever read, full stop. X
(Incidentally, watched this again so commenting now. I was wondering by the way, do you speak about The Invention of Morel somewhere - I have a feeling you do and I'm in the middle of that now - it strikes me as very Priestian.)
@@michaeldaly1495 It is - Chris is a big fan of 'Morel' and was going to wave it during one of our interviews but we got cut up by streaming problems...I've read it as well, natch. Basis of the film 'Last Year In Marienbad' .
The endings of Chris books' - so often marked by stuning conceptual breakthroughs - are, for me, what indicate his status as one of the greatest writers of SF ever. He understands how perception is shaped by language in literature and having taken on board the influences of Ballard, Dick and Fowles and filtered them through the stylistics and English settings of Wells and Wyndham, adding his own experiences of memory and broken time, creates the greatest expression of inner space in contemporary literature.
Thanks so much for the playlist. I will be binge-watching this Elements of Science Fiction today.
Wish more people would check out playlists, it's where the meat is! Thanks!
Looping back to this, the first in the 'Elements of...' series to say thanks for a great series - informative and insightful as always. I thoroughly recommend this to everyone. Great stuff. Thanks.
Thanks again. It's a strange thing that people so often think they know what something is, without ever having tried to analyse it. For me, this is part of the pleasure of a work itself- looking below the surface.
“Arts are in crisis” another great video Steve. I love how conversational & unscripted this is. Feels organic which makes it more entertaining . Your end point really got me thinking, are we really at a point when contemporary SF offers little to no originality, and merely stands on the shoulders of giants? I’m always an optimist and think as human experience and history continues to evolve, we will continue to see new, fresh and innovative ideas.
Glad you enjoyed it. Check out my videos on Hauntology & Psychogeography filmed in Bristol which discuss this 'End of Modernism' idea a bit more.
China Mountain Zhang was an incredible surprise when I read it a few years back!
A simple everyday story with a great setting!
Yes, she broke the mould with that book- but sadly, other writers took this one-off innovation too far and we now have writers like Becky Chambers who do nothing but set everyday, mundane stories in space. For me this was a 'It can only be done once' thing- Maureen's later books have the same quality, but do add the Conceptual Breakthroughs back in, but they never grabbed me as much.
"The conceptual breakthrough is that there isn’t a conceptual breakthrough". Brilliant. I loved China Mountain Zhang. Such an unusual and affecting SF novel, more kitchen sink drama than soap/space opera. People just trying to get by and not slip between the cracks. So relatable.
Pleased you didn't hint at any 'reveals'. I have Non-Stop and The Affirmation and The Glamour lined up for the next few weeks.
Your best video to date. The others were pretty good though, to be fair!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. McHugh really did surprise people at the time, I think, though as I say it's a once-only deal. My 'no spoilers' on this theme (apart from the necessary example of Van Vogt) are really there to lead people in. The way these writers use language in their CBs is very important I feel and it's allied to Delany's theory that SF is about using language differently as much as it is about the future. I've no doubt some people may not 'get' some of the CBs I refer to or may even 'miss the point' as it were, but I think they may spot more now in their reading. I'm interested to hear what people think of these books, but of course the journey itself is as important as the arrival at the end...
China Mountain Zhang is one of my all-time favorites.
Very underrated book.
Another terrific post! Your conversational manner, borne of a deep interest and your own experience, is just wonderful to listen to. I think that you’re a natural at this. I’d never thought of ‘conceptual breakthrough’ in this way before, although I recognise it immediately as a major part of what I love about certain writers. I also like that you have authors you like and others that you don’t; you’re not trying to be nice to everyone’s work. You recommend quite a lot of writers, novels, collections, etc and I can’t always recall them all, but I’m grateful for anything that makes it easier to find good writing.
I’ve been on a Noir kick lately, but you’re pulling me back to SF! HNY!
Thanks Richard, you're very kind. Bit partial to Noir myself!
Excellent video again. I would agree that Priest is simply the best when it comes to conceptual breakthrough. One of my favorites not mentioned by you is Kate Wilhelm, now sadly neglected. Her novels "The Clewiston Test" and "Welcome Chaos" both have revelations of a Priest-like intensity. In both, I had to go back and reread the page to make sure that I understood what had happened. Her short stories are very good too. She seemed to lose interest in SF and went on to write a long series of legal thrillers, which were a fun read but not as good as her SF.
Yes, I have those- as I think I said, it was a freewheeling thing, but I will cover her a bit more in future!
My first exposure to the conceptual breakthrough concept. In and of itself it's a conceptual breakthrough for me! I am very much enjoying perusing your archive OB! Cheers.
From 'The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction' (Clute, Nicholls, et al), quoted here to further clarify: 'In 1972 Darko Suvin defined sf as "a literary genre whose necessary and sufficient conditions are the presence and interaction of estrangement and cognition, and whose main formal device is an imaginative framework alternative to the author's empirical environment". By "cognition" Suvin appears to mean the seeking of rational understanding, and by "estrangement" something akin to Bertolt Brecht's Verfremdungseffekt, defined in 1948 thus: "A representation which estranges is one which allows us to recognize its subject, but at the same time make it seem unfamiliar."
Perhaps the most important part of Suvin's definition, and the easiest with which to agree, is the emphasis he puts on what he and others have called a Novum, a new thing - some difference between the world of the fiction and what Suvin calls the "empirical environment", the real world outside. The presence of a novum is insufficient in itself, of course, to define sf, since the different and older tradition of fantasy likewise depends on the novum. Peter Nicholls, pointing to this particularly blurred demarcation line, argues that sf must by definition follow natural law whereas fantasy may and mostly does suspend it. Fantasy need not be susceptible to "natural" or cognitive explanation; indeed, supernatural explanation is at fantasy's heart. (Suvin claims that the commercial linking of sf and fantasy is "a rampantly pathological phenomenon".
This dividing line is further discussed under Magic.) As to estrangement, it arguably has little to do with at least the US tradition of sf (although a great deal to do with European traditions of Satire), in which an important component is nostalgia for the familiar - even the familiarly new (see Clichés) - and estrangement is significantly absent. John Clute has argued that much sf seeks to create the exact opposite of estrangement; that is, it works to make the incredible seem plausible and familiar. Nonetheless, while Suvin's definition would find few who agreed with all of it, it is challenging and has perhaps been the most useful of all in catalysing debate on the issue.'
Totally agree about The Book of Skulls, simply amazing writing! I will have to check out the others on your list. Thanks!!
Absolutely excellent, I could watch this video many times, and get something new each time.
Thanks Daniel. Read some of those books and stories now, as it'll expand upon the video hugely. More 'Elements of SF' to come, then I'll pull them together into a definitive 'definitions' video.
Oh yes, Aldiss, Heinlein and Van vogt!
Great..just great!!👍👍😊📚📚🧘
Big Time - Fritz Leiber. Robot stories by Asimov. Philip K Dick, of course. Left Hand of Darkness, Grey Matters, Rendezvous with Rama, Ringworld, Midwich Cuckoos, Neuromancer stories, Titus Groan trilogy....and oh so unfashionably, the Hitchhiker's Guide...
Yep, CB pops up everywhere in good skiffy!
I considered myself a SF fan for something like 55 years -- until the internet, SF blogs, and now, TH-cam. Heck, I have something like 650 SF books on my shelves (including 150+ Ace Books from the 60's). However, I never liked short SF, which some say is the beating heart of SF, and I never read books to have my mind blown. I have a feeling that what you call conceptual breakthroughs, I'd see as merely at twist, a gimmick, an aren't I clever moment. So it is not surprising, then, to find that on any list of 100 must-read SF novels, I may've read 15 -20 of them. What I've come to realize is that I'm a fan of romances -- in the old definition of the term: adventures in exotic lands. SF provided the exotic lands. I like stories and characters, not ideas dressed up as stories. I am certain that you are right about what SF is, it is just that one doesn't have to read them correctly to be enjoyed.
That said, I enjoy learning all about SF and all the books that I'll never read. It's interesting. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Chuck. I would say that stories and characters aren't precluded by conceptual breakthrough, they compliment it - pretty much every book/story I cite in the video has strong characters and plotting and the breakthroughs are an integral part of the stories, while it's the presence of realistic characters that make the breakthroughs so significant. They're human moments above all else.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal No doubt you are right. But I was, and still do look more for adventure type of stories than explorations of strange what ifs? More of a planetary romance lad, I guess, than mainstream SF. From what I've read and watched, I know that I'm well out of the mainstream in SF, but I'm fine with that, even if it means having to write my own stories.
I really liked this comment. I too am a fan of 'planetary romance' but I definitely appreciate having my paradigm shifted.
I posted a link to "farewell to the master" but I think links are disabled.
@@chucklitka2503 Nothing wrong with being outside the mainstream, it's the place to be!
@@waltera13 I love a good Planetary Romance myself...
I've not given PKD enough attention. If one has to have a complete collection of an author, then Philip K. Dick ought to be in the top 5, i reckon.
Discovered your channel a few weeks ago and i love your discussions and how much knowledge you share, it is a pleasure to listen to you, greetings from Argentina
Great to hear from someone in South America, greetings and thanks!
Would love to hear more of your thoughts on JGB and PKD
There will be more coming, but check the backlist of my videos and you'll find stuff about both, with more to come soon. Also, my recent 'Conceptual breakthrough' video starts with a PKD example...
Very enjoyable and informative piece. And one I don't consider myself remotely qualified to comment upon. But I just wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself as the chap who met you the other day and put in the vote for Tanith Lee [maybe just the DAW years in deference to her prolificness]. Was on a book foraging expedition from London at the time but promised you I would subscribe when I got back and I have.
Already looking forward to the next vid.
hi Rochard- thanks for this. Yes, it was great to say hello, nice to meet you, and as I think I said, Tanith will happen here!
Excellent video. Thank you ☺️
Check out the whole series in the 'Elements of SF' series, I think you'll like them all. Thanks!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I am planning on doing this for sure!
Amazing video with many good recommendations. Thanks for putting these out. I just finished A Dream of Wessex by Christopher P. and will start the Affirmation very soon. Now I am looking forward to it even more.
From my latest reads, I think Darwinia by Wilson and Lord of Light by Zelazny are two other good examples of conceptual breakthrough
It's hard to discuss these things without making spoilers that hinder the enjoyment of others, but having read both 'Darwinia' and LOL' I know what you mean. As I say, it's a marker of all great SF, especially if it happens at start and finish. You'll find 'The Affirmation' is a significant step up from 'A Dream of Wessex', which I like, but it catches Chris in transition from extreme proficiency to actual greatness!
Lord of Light, yep!
I got my hands on the Granta publication yesterday, and have just read Priest's 'The Miraculous Cairn'. That moment, when you realise *the thing* (yes, I made the assumption) took my breath away. There was no reason for me to make that assumption, at least not in the writing: it came from me. I agree, it probably wouldn't be such a big deal now, but the clarity of the writing and reveal is so compelling, irrespective of the audience.
And then, to read on in a state of surprise, only for the horror to really kick in ... wow. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be reading more of Priest's work!
Yes, it's remarkable, isn't it? And so simple in a way- this reveals his genius. The version in the collection now in print called 'The Dream Archipelago' is revised and in my view is not as strong. Well over thirty years after my first reading, I still think of it often- one of my favourite works of short fiction ever.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal It's really simple, but that sort of simplicity is hard to pull off convincingly.
Off the back of this, I've just ordered 'The Affirmation' and 'The Glamour' (the version you recommended, hopefully!). About to start another of your recommendations, actually - Sterling's 'Involution Ocean'.
@@tjonas1986 -Good move. Priest's 1980s output is, I feel, the finest- even though all his work is superb - and the Sterling is a great parody of 'Dune' and ashows where the Punk in Cyberpunk came from...
I’ve been thoroughly enjoying your channel! I know you typically do not do spoilers, but I would dearly love if you would elaborate on your views of the conclusion of Man in the High Castle.
Well, let's put it this way: what does Abdensen say to Juliana at the very end? Then she walks out of the High Castle and realises the true nature of her reality as a character...so what is Juliana? She's not real, is she? So it's like an inversion of the 'fourth wall' thing as she realises what she actually is....I can;t be any clearer than that without making a total spoiler of it.
I watched both of your interviews with Chris Priest and enjoyed seeing him again. Can I ask if you've read and what you think of the works of Edmund Cooper? He's unknown nowadays but I read all his novels as a teenager and greatly enjoyed them. Thanks.
Watch the video posted on March 2nd ('Blue Girls...') and I speak about one of Cooper's novels in that video. I am going to be reading more over the next year so watch this space.
I really love your videos. I always learn a lot, and you cover some of my favorite authors. Keep up the good work!
More Christopher Priest, please!!
Thanks Hakim, you're very kind. I'll do my best!
I imagine you've watched my Priest videos here -the 'Futurewatch' playlist one about the unwritten sequel to 'The Prestige' and 'England's Dreaming', looking at his books up to the late 70s? I will be filming one on his 1980s work before Christmas and he will appear on the channel as an interviewee sometime early next year.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal oh I must have missed that one! Thank you for the heads-up!!
Excellent talk my good man.
Many thanks!
I know Peter F. Hamilton describes a lot, but Pandora's Star is packed with great scenes. Maybe even don't continue to Judas Unchained if you don't care about the Ozzie cliffhanger.
I'm afraid Hamilton's work does nothing for me. After reading Barrington J Bayley, M John Harrison and Brian Stableford, I find his work ponderous. He may be popular, but he lacks flair in my opinion.
Hi Steve, great video. I’m looking forward to your next Elements of Science Fiction upload. I only really started getting into science fiction during the quarantine, and your videos have helped steer me towards some interesting reads. The Affirmation was mind-blowing and I’m looking forward to reading The Glamour or Inverted World as my next Priest.
One modern SF book I enjoyed that I felt exhibited this conceptual breakthrough was Gnomon by Nick Harkaway. Curious if you read/enjoyed this one or even talked about it in a video. I know you have had limited success with modern SF, so I’m wondering if you’re into Harkaway.
Glad you're enjoying the channel! Yes, I've read 'Gnomon' - it's very good but I did feel it was a little longer than it needed to be, but I think that's Neal Stephenson's influence, though NH (who is John Le Carre's son) has cited Gibson as his primary influence.
I read the Farewell to the Master when I was a teen-ager.
Good move. I was probably in my early twenties when I found it in an anthology after reading about it for years.
I love hearing your analyses. If you do check back. Please give us your take on the Galactic Pot Healer. Ive read it three times now, it’s my favorite PKD. Please share your insights regarding the conceptual breakthrough at the end
It's in the last word: what expectation of Joe's attempt at creativity to redeem himself would a conventional narrative suggest? What would the 'manifest destiny' style of US SF of the Campbell era suggest? What is the result of Joe's attempt to 'redeem' himself as signficant? The answer is in the last sentence and specifically, the last word.
LOVE that cover! Is it Woodroffe?
I think it interesting that another channel I watch (Terry Talks Movies) picked today to start talking about what makes SF, SF.
Really the first bit is the germane part, the rest is just for fun: " Three Science Fiction Movies you should see."
He's low key, but well regarded. Not your in depth treatment - but a good bloke none the less.
Watch it or not in your "infinite spare time" _ Be Well
I'll check it out, thanks for that! Cover artist uncredited, but yes, it has the Woodroffe feel, but I don't think it is him, but I can't think who else it might be...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Rodney Matthews?
@@salty-walt No, it's not Rodders, not solid enough at the edges for him...I get the feeling it's Peter Goodfellow, though why I think this I don't know and I'm probably wrong!
I read the novel-length version of The Weapon Shops of Isher and found it to be disjointed, confusing, and dull. Not many months later I read the shorter "The Weapons Shop" and loved it. It just felt more cohesive and meaningful.
I prefer the shorter original too- it has an atmosphere and strangeness that is incomparable. A lot of Van Vogt's earlier magazine work was expanded later for book publication.
Love your channel! This video is particularly amazing!
I was wondering if there's any theory book about the conceptual breakthrough the way there's _Metamorphosis of Science Fiction_ by Darko Suvin where he develops the concept of the novum (or maybe he talks about it? Don't remember. I read that one long ago).
Warm hugs from México! Keep it up Stephen!
Many thanks. Suvin is one of my biggest influences when it comes to understanding and identifying what SF is- as is Norman Spinrad. There may be books out there on CB, I haven't done any recent research on the academic works on the topic. This is, of course, the first of a series of videos, 'The Elements of SF', the second one focusing on the Novum.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I've watched (and re-watched) the whole series. It's amazing, really.
Thanks a lot for the content you upload. As well as for the recommendations. I've followed you on a couple (Nina Allen's Conquest, Disch Camp Concentration and Ballard short stories) and really, no regrets. On the contrary: Ballard in particular, really blew it and made me see a whole new side of SF.
“Later, as he sat on his balcony eating the dog, Dr Robert Laing reflected on the unusual…….
Yes, now that's a cracking example of what is arguably an anachronism - but is actually a novum because of the context- immediately resulting in a conceptual breakthrough driven paradigm shift. 'High Rise'.
Really enjoyed this video. Non-stop did change my way of thinking, such a brilliant story. I don't mind Becky Chambers - I get your point about soap opera - but many modern writers have some surprising approaches to SF they are not like Clarke, Asimov, Silverberg, Dick, Niven et al there is almost something missing but I think they can be very readable and fresh, I include Andy Weir in this category. Frederick Pohl was from the old school, great writer. I must read more Silverberg, always enjoyed his work but he has so much! I need to read more Priest, never read The Glamour. I really enjoy mind changing paradigm shifting conceptual breakthrough stories. There is plenty here I have not read so thank you!
I'd say the problem with most 'modern' writers is that they are not Modern with a capital M, they are instead contemporary, which is a different -they are generally less innovative than the SF writers of the past conceptually, but that is because most forms of cultural production are now no longer innovative and new (i.e. Modern) but part of a cultural stasis that's lasted some thirty years- the Postmodern era. Their voices may seem 'fresh', but I'd argue most simply have a smooth conversational readability, but very little style or difficulty, both things which characterise Modern aesthetics. SF used to be the genre of (R) evolution, but it has now run out of places to go, like most of the arts, so it recombines and pastiches and repeats. It's an issue for all creative forms.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Yes I would agree generally but I have really enjoyed some modern works like Noumenon trilogy and Planet fall trilogy in particular Before Mars. Becky Chambers writing isn't convincing but I enjoyed book 1 in Wayfarers but this stuff is my wheelhouse. Mainly I read Reynolds, Banks and Hamilton but have run out of those. Ive made some notes from your videos there is a few older works I have not read. Clarke blow me away when I read him in the 70's but young people now reading him cant "feel" the same thing, in the last 50 years we have had Star Wars, The Matrix, the internet, etc the world has changed.
@@paulallison6418 -There is an interview with Emma Newman here on the channel, filmed a few weeks back, she's a good one. Re the films you mention, they are only a step 'forward' in terms of slickness of technique, rather than being innovative- 'Primer' and 'Crimes of the Future' are examples of how SF cinema could raise its game away from the usual tropes. Yes, the world has changed, but my point is that it's entered a period of retrenchment with traditional crafts in much SF and the Space Opera renaissance that began around 1987 with Banks is an example of this- I see his work and that of Reynolds and Hamilton (good guys that they all are/were, having met them all) as being conservative, revisionist and traditional, nothing really new there- M John Harrison's 'Light' and sequels, Ken Macleod and Charles Stross' 'Accelerando' raising the trad game more than a bit. But writes like Adam Roberts and Dave Hutchinson are streets ahead in taking things forward I feel. There is more to SF than Space Opera, I feel. Now, perhaps, a lot of younger readers are quite honestly less literate that us older guys, as they've been over-exposed to screens from day one and under-exposed to nuance, style and originality in writing- and the result is lots of formulaic SF that people only think is 'new' as they're unfamiliar with the past, unlike ourselves.
God I miss going to Forever People on Park Street.
I know. Even some 25 years after its closure, after patronising it from the end of the seventies until it went, I still think of it every time I walk up Park Street. The guy who ran it now has a comic shop on the Isle of Wight, apparently....
Just watched this for a second time and it’s great inspiring stuff. Sounds like time for a Priest charity shop haul (fat chance of finding him there)
You don't see his stuff in the wild much. It's more or less all in print both sides of the Atlantic, he deserves the royalties, buy new. Part two of my interview with him covering his 1980s and 1990s work steams here from friday night. Part one went online in December, just scroll backwards through uploads and you'll get me and him reminiscing about his 60s and 70s work and the other SF writers he knew, it's quite something!
I’m sure I read him decades ago because his name is so familiar to me, just can’t remember what. I’ve watched all of your SF vids (and even the Hawkind and Alice Cooper vids) and many of them more than once as they are so darn informative, something I don’t do with Moid or Matt at bookpilled. Keep going
@@robertjbroadhurst3860 -I will keep going mate, don't you worry! To be fair, Moid has great enthusiasm for the genre and Matt at Bookpilled is a natural born critic and a great guy (we're often in touch and hope to meet up later this year) who gave me my first ringing endorsement here on YT. But what The Outlaw Bookseller has that others don't is the decades of trade experience, fifty years of reading and context/history/theory, born of enjoying SF as a major hobby and working with it in my dayjob for nearly forty years, plus my experience as a published writer/editor. I aim to provide an informal yet informed look at the genre. FYI, I strongly recommend Science Fiction Reads and Scott Bradfield ( a real writer!) on YT too.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal OK re Scott Bradfield and I've watched SF Reads several times & enjoyed that. Yep re your experience, you're definitely bringing me up to speed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bookpilled (the only person to be culling his SF books at the same time as still hauling, go figure) live on your channel and Moid's Media Death Cult. FYI I bought your books years ago...
@@robertjbroadhurst3860 -Thanks for purchasing my tomes!
When I read The Miraculous Cairn I remember my jaw dropping and my brain fizzing. I also love Priest's dry flat writing style. But I have been disappointed with every book since The Adjacent which is my personal favourite by Priest. I think he has gone off the boil .
I still enjoy Chris' books enormously, but for me something clicked with his style after 'The Quiet Woman' and they've had a more urgent tone than the 80s works which hasn't impressed me as much as his magnificent 80s writing.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Wasn't there some kind of conceptual breakthrough in The Quiet Woman? I remember liking it. It's quite a weird one, that one.
Familiar names but I haven't read a single one. Still time though & thanks for the review.
Cheers!
I don't think this old video is in your top 10, etc playlist. Can you please add it there?
No, it's in the 'Elements of Science Fiction' series playlist instead.
I also can see that Elements playlist under the section called Thematic on the main page. Easy browse there. Thank you!
I have a silly Christopher Priest question: I've only read one book by him, a newer one called the Islanders, and I thought it was a pretty good read. I remember it was about the Dream Archipelago and was made up of a bunch of different faux encyclopedia entries. It was really cool but I didn't realize it was part of a series until a couple of months ago. With that in my back pocket, how should I go about reading some more Christopher Priest as your channel has inspired me to do?
Well, I'd say start at the beginning. All his work is worth reading and publication order is a good approach. But you'll enjoy his work more if you have some historical context. His early work sees him as a key writer of the British New Wave, so read up on New Wave in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction (google it, as it's now a website rather than a book). Then, after reading his first three novels -'Indoctrinaire', 'Fugue For A Darkening Island' and 'Inverted World', read 'The Magus' by John Fowles, which influenced him into his next, mature phase. Alternatively, you could go down The Dream Archipelago route and read 'The Affirmation' as your entry point, then the collection entitled 'The Dream Archipelago'. As you enjoyed 'The Islanders', you are pretty much ready for anything by Chris...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Awesome, I will keep an eye out for those books then! I'm still new to the New Wave of Science Fiction even though I've read a few hundred SF books, it's just not the stuff that usually comes my way... While this may be a bit out of your comfort zone, have you ever thought about hosting little book clubs or read along discussions on these kind of books for the less initiated/discussion friendly folk? I know I'd be interested, but I don't know if you have the desire or participation for that..Just an idea, as usual thanks for the great entertainment and information!
@@conradledebuhr1765 -New Wave is to my way of thinking the most important school (or rather historical moment ) in SF - when it takes on board the challenge of Modernism. Re the book club/read along thing, do you mean virtually as on TH-cam live stream? I have, of course, done many book club and similar events over the years in my day job as a bookseller and informally in pub settings...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I was speaking of more of a virtual book club kind of like Moid's readalongs, where a group of people read a book seperately and discuss it together over text or video or what have you.
@@conradledebuhr1765 - I haven'r really considered this as yet, simply because so many people do this on YT and (quite frankly- and I don't mean Moid here, who has posted some good reviews) many of them are simply not experienced enough as readers of SF to be leading said discussions. I may do this, but for the moment my approach will remain more about imparting suggestions about how you look at and read SF, hence the Conceptual Breakthrough video -there will be more like this as I've said. Without context and history, opinions of what is good or not in SF remains simply opinions. It's when they become informed opinions they become more interesting and valid. But we'll see, maybe I'll go that way, but I want to provide an alternative to most TH-cam SF coverage rather than going the same way. Stick with me and we'll see how it turns out. Thanks for your comments!
fun with Dick, love it, this video is brilliant!
It's always fun with PKD!
Great vid; very chewy, meaty. So does this count as the long promised Christopher Priest video?
* I totally get what you're saying about conceptual breakthrough, and it's important to me as well. There is one aspect I wish you had addressed though: to the sophomorically well read there is usually not a differentiation between successful breakthrough and gimmicky trickery. I fear that the literary establishment has discounted it and that a couple of generations have been taught to see it all as a cheap gimmick of the Pulps.
I mean I think it can be both successful and unsuccessful, and both a gimmick and genius. Take Lovecraft for example:
In "The Outsider" it feels like a gimmick, but it works. In "The Whisperer in Darkness" it feels like a gimmick that fails as he circles the end reveal like a plane waiting for landing instructions. And in "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" it is executed with genius to perfection.
Your essay was rather in depth on an unusual point, and very interesting. Since you have very carefully considered the subject, and it seems as though labeling it as "gimmickery" is the main argument against your thesis, do you have anything to say on that?
I think you'd have to read the books I cite to see that I'm not talking about a mere gimmick, but something profound in many cases- though the Ellison one is just a typical flourish- the Priest ones are the most profound. And no, this is not the CP video - there is one already, but there will be at least 3 more in the future.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal That's why I offered examples as well. I'm familiar with the Ellison (of course) and it always felt like a fail, like a gimmick *trying* to pass itself off as more - Of course that story always reminded me of Hemmingway's "Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" which I didn't care for, so I may be biased.
@@outlawbookselleroriginal HaHa! You're turning Chris Priest into a cottage industry!
@@salty-walt -Well, when I first met him, he was living in a cottage industriously writing....
@@salty-walt -I think Ellison would be more than happy to acknowledge Hemingway, as he based his 'experience it then writer it' philosophy.
😊
Has Priest's Inverted World anything to do with the inverted world invoked by Hegel in the Phenomenology of Spirit in the transition from consciousness to self-consciousness in which the understanding has some kind of weird breakdown? 'The second super sensible
world is in this way the inverted world and, moreover…the inversion of the first… [T]he
inner world is completed as appearance ... according… to the law of this inverted world, what is like
in the first world is unlike to itself, and what is unlike to itself, and is unlike in the first
world is equally unlike to itself, or it becomes like itself ... the law of the first world is
sweet, in the inverted in-itself is sour.... '.
Yes, very much so. If you've not read it, you should. Priests' work is of interest to anyone serious about philosophy- especially 'The Affirmation' and 'The Glamour'. There is an interview with him on my channel and a second part coming up before too long.
everytime I watch one of your videos I end up on ebay or abebooks with 2 or 3 books enroute to me
Hope you like them- put it this way, I don't over-expend energy on the terminally obvious here: I look under rocks!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal it's impossible to have the same tastes in books as somebody else. You understand and explain the themes, the language, where you are at when you read the book, and many other helpful insights. We are both collectors and I appreciate your expertise in reading quality science fiction. I am currently about to finish Dr Bloodmoney and have re-read as a result of your videos Science Fiction Hall of Fame vol I. There are about 15 tbr as well
Non ordered
Whipping Star, Dosadi Experiment, White Plague, Dune-- frank Herbert
Rama -- Clarke
Velocity Weapon series O' Keefe
Lost Fleet-- Cambell
Drowned World & Short Story compilation of J.G. ballard
Foundation Trilogy, Robot series----Azimov
Left Hand of Darkness, Lathe of Heaven, le Guin
Haze, Forever HERO series -- modesitt jr
First 3 Expanse books--Corey
Ender - card
Revelation Space series, Prefect, Bone Silence series, Chasm City----allister Reynolds
MATTER, algebraist, exceler
Are you meaning a 'top ten' of SF per se, or of great examples of Conceptual Breakthrough in SF, please clarify! Thanks!
@Outlaw Bookseller
Just a rip of my favorites over 60 years
I'm up in the mountains camping got cut off...reception bad. Excession by Banks was my last entry.
I think on a personal note P.K. Dick is scatological....Blade Runner -one, the movie, was much better than do androids dream
@@AcmePotatoPackingPocatello -Can't agree: much as I love 'Blade Runner', it's a pale shadow beside the source novel, which is far more realistic, nuanced and emotionally and intellectually broader. But respect yr view.
@@AcmePotatoPackingPocatello -Right, gottcha!
could you please adopt me and write all of this into your will? please, please, please?
LOL. Thanks for this, made me laugh.
Literally just bought China Mountain on the strength of this review, better be good 😂
'Good' is a subjective measure, so it cannot be guaranteed. But if you look at it in the way I've described it, you'll see its merits.